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Talk:Dagor Dagorath

This article states that the Dagor Dagorath is clearly inspired by and bears many similarities to Ragnarök. In Norse mythology, both the giants and the gods are destroyed. To me, it seems, it bears more resemblance to the Biblical Last Battle. According to the book of Revelation, there will be a great battle between Michael and his angels versus Satan, and Satan, called the dragon, will be cast down and bound for a thousand years. This resembles the War of Wrath. At the end of the thousand years (which might be literal or not; a thousand years was in Jewish culture symbolic of a very long time), Satan will be released and decieve the world, and make war on God. Then he'll be cast down again, this time permanently, and a new world made. I believe in Norse myth, the world is just made out of the ruins after Ragnarök. Now, I think that the Christian prophecy is much more similar to the Dagor Dagorath than the Norse Ragnarök. Therefor, unless I am wrong or Tolkien actually connected the two himself, I believe that it is wrong to say definitely that the Dagor Dagorath was inspired by Ragnarök. It's possible, of course, but as long as there isn't any evidence, I am going to delete that statement. --Narfil Palùrfalas 14:14, 12 September 2006 (EDT)

While I have little knowledge of the different events based on your analysis I'm going to agree. --Hyarion 14:33, 12 September 2006 (EDT)

You are quite right Narfil. As a Christian myself, I found this prophesy surprisingly similiar to Revelation. So yes I agree. --Dwarf Lord 15:54, 12 September 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Notes

The rewrite tag is indeed warranted; it's a bit disheartening to see that both the One Wiki and Wikipedia have better articles about the subject than TG. In any case, here are just two passages (noted in a Tolkien Society FB group discussion) to be included in future updates to our article:

  • “[...]and Menelmacar with his shining belt, that forebodes the Last Battle that shall be at the end of days. And high in the north as a challenge to Melkor she set the crown of seven mighty stars to swing, Valacirca, the Sickle of the Valar and sign of doom.” (Ch 3, Silm)
  • “But Ar-Pharazôn the King and the mortal warriors that had set foot upon the land of Aman were buried under falling hills: there it is said that they lie imprisoned in the Caves of the Forgotten, until the Last Battle and the Day of Doom.” (Akkallabeth, Silm)

--Morgan 19:25, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

[edit] After rewriting

These are my requests for future editors:

  • I am aware that the section "History" is more a study than a proper description of the event. But this is due the complicated topic. What we should NEVER do is explain the event mixing all the versions arround!
  • I do think that the only note in The Istari is of doubtful canonicity and maybe it should be in "Other versions of the Legendarium", but the page's name is "Dagor Dagorath", so the note must be included in the "History" section.
  • No battle template, please: this article is not about just the battle, but also and even more important, the Second Prophecy of Mandos.
  • Christopher's removing the Prophecy is right and the starting point to other versions.
  • The page about Arda Unmarred should be improved and not mixed with this.

--LorenzoCB 18:13, 26 August 2019 (UTC)