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User:Mord

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|Implicitly, if Legolas could build his own ship, other Elves could do the same. One possibility is that Legolas' grey ship on the Anduin was the only one of its kind in the Fourth Age, and all the Elves who dwelled near the Anduin (in Ithilien, the Woodland Realm, East Lórien, and Lórien) who were of a mind to depart rather than fade in Middle-earth were aboard. If it is taken as literally true that Círdan did indeed leave on the last ship, and also taken as true that other Elves chose to build their own ships in the manner of Legolas, it is necessary that the last of these other Elves departed prior to Celeborn.
 
|Implicitly, if Legolas could build his own ship, other Elves could do the same. One possibility is that Legolas' grey ship on the Anduin was the only one of its kind in the Fourth Age, and all the Elves who dwelled near the Anduin (in Ithilien, the Woodland Realm, East Lórien, and Lórien) who were of a mind to depart rather than fade in Middle-earth were aboard. If it is taken as literally true that Círdan did indeed leave on the last ship, and also taken as true that other Elves chose to build their own ships in the manner of Legolas, it is necessary that the last of these other Elves departed prior to Celeborn.
 
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|Another possibility is that Legolas' grey ship was ''not'' the only one of its kind, and Círdan's "last ship" was meant as the "last ship ''from Mithlond''." His description of his mission as given in the ''The Silmarillion'' explicitly refers to "grey shores" that could be Mithlond (literally "Grey Haven"), which gives slight credence to this interpetation. However, the account of the end of the Third Age in the ''The Silmarillion'' contradicts that of ''The Lord of the Rings'', so too much weight cannot be placed on it.*
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|Another possibility is that Legolas' grey ship was ''not'' the only one of its kind, and Círdan's "last ship" was meant as the "last ship ''from Mithlond''." His description of his mission given in the ''The Silmarillion'' explicitly refers to "guarding the Havens," which gives some credence to this interpetation. However, the account of the end of the Third Age in the ''The Silmarillion'' contradicts that of ''The Lord of the Rings'', so too much weight cannot be given to it.*
 
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|The phrasing of the description of Lórien in FoA 120-121 ("Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also was gone") may lend credence to Aragorn's belief that Mithlond was not abandoned as of FoA 120. Tolkien chose specifically to describe Galadriel and Celeborn's absences from the land differently, implying that they were qualitatively different in some way. Galadriel had gone into the West by this time, so the most obvious possible difference would be that Celeborn had not yet done so. If it is taken as true that Celeborn had not yet left Middle-earth as of the death of Arwen, he must have lingered in Rivendell or Mithlond at least until March of FoA 120 (perhaps as late as the coming of Spring in FoA 121).
 
|The phrasing of the description of Lórien in FoA 120-121 ("Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also was gone") may lend credence to Aragorn's belief that Mithlond was not abandoned as of FoA 120. Tolkien chose specifically to describe Galadriel and Celeborn's absences from the land differently, implying that they were qualitatively different in some way. Galadriel had gone into the West by this time, so the most obvious possible difference would be that Celeborn had not yet done so. If it is taken as true that Celeborn had not yet left Middle-earth as of the death of Arwen, he must have lingered in Rivendell or Mithlond at least until March of FoA 120 (perhaps as late as the coming of Spring in FoA 121).

Revision as of 07:02, 14 June 2021

I used to be the anonymous editor 75.118.149.152 (contribs) (talk), but I grew a name of my own.

Contents

Unanswerable questions that keep me up nights

Fourth Age

  • When exactly did Celeborn leave Middle-earth?
Similar figurative language may also apply regarding Círdan's "last ship." It is remarkable that Legolas would choose to build his own ship rather than depart from Mithlond. Perhaps Legolas' decision was influenced by his long life among the Elves east of the Misty Mountains, who maintained their own haven in Edhellond until TA 1981 and may have had their own traditions regarding departures.
  • What happened to Elladan and Elrohir?
  • Did any Noldor remain in Middle-earth after the White Ship left? The Silmarillion suggests not, Appendix A hedges.
    • If so, what about after the Last Ship?
      • Who counts as a Noldo for this purpose (e.g. the sons of Elrond, Noldor-blooded Galadhrim of Lórien)?
    • Did any Eldar choose to fade in Middle-earth rather than leave bodily (e.g. Thranduil)?
    • Did any Elves build their own ships (cf. Legolas) after the "Last" Ship?
    • Did any Silvans or Avari choose to go West?
      • Did Avari have the grace to go West?
      • If not, do Silvans count as Eldar or Avari?

Third Age

  • Which four of the Seven Rings were consumed by dragonfire? The only one we know for sure survived is the Ring of the Longbeards.
  • Who were the Nine Nazgûl?
    • Was the Witch-king truly of Númenórean descent? Tolkien's final word on the subject (which is buried as deeply as anything Tolkien-related could possibly be while still being available to the public) was literally "probably."
    • Was "Khamûl" a nom de guerre that described only the Ringwraith, or did this name derive from his original "mortal" identity?
    • Were all nine of the Men to whom Sauron gave a Ring in the Second Age Nazgûl during the War of the Ring, or was there turnover?

Second Age

  • Who slew Sauron in the War of the Last Alliance?

First Age

  • Why didn't Orodreth send Finduilas to Círdan for safekeeping at the same time as Gil-galad?
    • Related: what years were Finduilas and Gil-galad born?
  • Who is the elder: Elros or Elrond?

Things I like

  • FAQ of the Rings – Mostly great information and some interesting speculation about the Rings of Power.
  • The Last Ringbearer – The very best fan fiction ever written, and possibly the only work of fan fiction with genuine literary merit.
  • My favorite characters in the Legendarium: Círdan, Celeborn, Elmo. I like the ones who don't get a lot of attention but whose efforts in the background were nonetheless essential.
  • Reference templates