Talk:Timeline: Difference between revisions

From Tolkien Gateway
No edit summary
Line 39: Line 39:


::Sorry for being unclear again. I didn't mean F. Baggins but [[Frodo Gardner]], the son of master Samwise. --Tik 03:15, 28 July 2006 (EDT)
::Sorry for being unclear again. I didn't mean F. Baggins but [[Frodo Gardner]], the son of master Samwise. --Tik 03:15, 28 July 2006 (EDT)
:::So you thought that just Frodo Gardner had that name?  Based on the family tree in the back of the book, I suppose.  But no, Samwise changed his name from Gamgee to Gardner.  I'll find a quote for you, if you wish.
:::I found it.  On the introduction page of Appendix C (and I'm sure elsewhere also), it says "''In addition to some genealogical information is provided concerning Samwise the founder of the family of ''Gardner'', later famous and influential''".  And notice, in the family tree, how it puts "Gardner" in parentheses below Samwise's name.  I saw it somewhere else too, if I could only remember. . . --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 07:44, 28 July 2006 (EDT)


== Morgoth or Melkor? Years of the Lamps? ==
== Morgoth or Melkor? Years of the Lamps? ==
Line 54: Line 58:


--Tik 03:11, 28 July 2006 (EDT)
--Tik 03:11, 28 July 2006 (EDT)
:::Well, I shall have to look deeper into that, but I do know in the Silmarillion in the chapter "Of the Beginning of Days", it says that time was not counted until the flowering of the trees.  I hope that helps. . . a little. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 07:44, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

Revision as of 11:44, 28 July 2006

Just discovered this when searching for Goldilocks Gardner...
One simple yet life-altering question: should this timeline have any other links in it? *dreads* --Bokkie 18:52, 9 Sep 2005 (EDT)

FA Errors

There are two of the year 471! [Just copy 'n pasted from Halion's Excel file "Tale of Years" I guess ;)]

Isn't Saelind (born 344) the same person as Andreth (born 361)? [Couldn't find the both of them in the Indices of the Silm or UT. btw.]

Non-canon

I had an idea that I wanted to make sure it was fine before I did it. Many of the dates are disputed. Perhaps an asterisk could be added to those ones? --Narfil Palùrfalas 21:50, 9 June 2006 (EDT)

Great idea! Maybe later we can delve in deeper as to the range and other possibilities for the date but I think an asterisk would be a great addition to let people know its not an exact fact. --Hyarion 22:07, 9 June 2006 (EDT)

A More Accurate Timeline?

I found this timeline for the Elder Days that looks much more accurate. Would anyone object to replacing the info here for the other Elder Days timeline? --Ebakunin 00:50, 10 July 2006 (EDT)

Fine by me, although maybe we could make a quick run through to make sure they didn't leave anything out that we already have, otherwise it looks great. I'm not sure copying it entirely would be the most legal thing either, maybe we can rewrite it in our own words. --Hyarion 09:26, 10 July 2006 (EDT)

Fourth Age years?

Perhaps I'm just bad in numbers, but it seems to me that to many of the years of the F.A. are not correct.

According to the Tale of Years (p. 1098 in my 2004 edition) king Elessar died in S.R. 1541 which was the year 120 of the Fourth Age (Gondor) - see footnote 1. Thus one should retract 1421 from the S.R. years to get the F.A. years. Am I right? This would cause changes to all the years that are changed from the S.R. to the F.A. years (1 > T.A. 3021, 3 > 2, 5 > 4 and so on).

Some other comments:

1 Éomer and Lothiriel wed, Elanor Gardner born ---> T.A. 3021; by the way: Elanor Gardner or Elanor Gamgee or Elanor the Fair? I just thought that only Frodo had the surname Gardner

24 Death of Imrahil. Elphir becomes Prince of Dol Amroth. Firiel Gardner born ---Who is this Firiel? As far as I know, Tolman was the youngest of the children of Sam and Rosie. And I suppose that the name should be Fíriel, not Firiel, if anything.

62 Death of Rose Gardner. Círdan and Samwise pass over sea ---Rose Gamgee, I suppose. Or did Samwise really change his name to Gardner??

--Tik 17:04, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

I didn't notice this question. I'll answer it now. Frodo did not change his name to Gardner; he kept Baggins. Sam did. But I'm not sure who Firiel is. --Narfil Palùrfalas 17:50, 27 July 2006 (EDT)
Sorry for being unclear again. I didn't mean F. Baggins but Frodo Gardner, the son of master Samwise. --Tik 03:15, 28 July 2006 (EDT)
So you thought that just Frodo Gardner had that name? Based on the family tree in the back of the book, I suppose. But no, Samwise changed his name from Gamgee to Gardner. I'll find a quote for you, if you wish.
I found it. On the introduction page of Appendix C (and I'm sure elsewhere also), it says "In addition to some genealogical information is provided concerning Samwise the founder of the family of Gardner, later famous and influential". And notice, in the family tree, how it puts "Gardner" in parentheses below Samwise's name. I saw it somewhere else too, if I could only remember. . . --Narfil Palùrfalas 07:44, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

Morgoth or Melkor? Years of the Lamps?

Perhaps I'm just hypercritical or smth, but I think there is a kind of anachronism if Melkor is called Morgoth already in the Years of the Lamps.

--Tik 17:25, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

I'm not sure about your second question, but as to the first one, no, Melkor was not named Morgoth until he destroyed the Two Trees. See the quote below:
" [Fëanor has just been told of Formenos by messengers, how his father was killed and the Silmarils taken] . . . Then Fëanor rose, and lifting up his hand before Manwë he cursed Melkor, naming him Morgoth, the Black Foe of the World; and by that name only was he known to the Eldar ever after. . ."
The Silmarillion, "Of the Flight of the Noldor"
Do you mind rephrasing your second question a little? --Narfil Palùrfalas 17:46, 27 July 2006 (EDT)
No, of course: I suppose that Tolkien himself did not use the term "Years of the Lamps" in the meaning "The Age that began with the arrival of the Valar to Arda and ended with the flowering of the Trees". The Years of the Lamps began only about 1500 Valian Years after the beginning of this Age and ended 50 Valian Years before the end of the Age). In the Annals of Aman (HoME X, 51) Tolkien only talks about "the Days before days" when referring to the Age before the Years of the Trees. So, how should one name this era, or Age? I'm not quite happy with calling it the Years of the Lamps. Of course I should have a better suggestion instead, but unfortunately I do not have one.

--Tik 03:11, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

Well, I shall have to look deeper into that, but I do know in the Silmarillion in the chapter "Of the Beginning of Days", it says that time was not counted until the flowering of the trees. I hope that helps. . . a little. --Narfil Palùrfalas 07:44, 28 July 2006 (EDT)