Talk:The Yale

Suggestion

I suggest that the page is moved to Yale to reflect the naming policy of avoiding the word “the”. Dour1234, April 11, 2022 (UTC)

This policy hasn't been consistently applied and probably needs to be clarified. See The Shire, The Old Forest, etc. In these cases, I think there's an argument to be made for considering "The" to be part of the proper name of the place. --Pachyderminator 07:41, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I just realized The Old Forest goes to an article on the chapter "The Old Forest," and the article on the forest itself is Old Forest without the article. There's still The Shire, though. Is that the only other exception to the rule? --Pachyderminator 07:44, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Dour1234, did you read the sources including the map called "A Map of the Shire", which is included in the book The Lord of the Rings before you asked your question? Is English your native language? A simple look on that map would have told you that it is called "The Yale" on that map. The article on the page explains that a yale is a word for a fertile upland. Similarly a shire is a word for a county and "one ring" is simple a singular ring and there can be many singular rings which May of may not have a proper name. Adding "The" to these words and capitalizing them is what turns them into proper names of something and distinguishes them from their normal use of words for things. --Akhorahil 08:10, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Are you talking to Dour1234 or me? (You used his name but replied below my comment.) I agree that "The Shire" is a proper name, that's what I said in my first comment. Also, the question about being a native English speaker is pointless. I'm pretty sure 99% of native English speakers have never heard that a "yale" is a fertile upland. --Pachyderminator 08:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

If you take another look at the map to which you refer, you'll see a region labeled "The Marish" (bigger than The Yale, in fact) - but TG has an article called simply Marish, and The Marish redirects to it. It's not just a matter of whether the name is an English word, either, because the same map has "The East Road," but the article here is just East Road, and The East Road isn't even a redirect. So saying "RTFM" doesn't really illuminate any questions about the naming policy here or consistency thereof. --Pachyderminator 08:58, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

You are saying exactly what I am trying to make a point of. The words on the maps have “the” on it, but there are many instances in the text where that is not the case. Also, as a reply to Akhorahil, Yale, Shire, and One Ring are not too broad as there is not anything on this wiki that would confuse them as anything else. This wiki deals with all things Tolkien and not really anything outside of Tolkien as things kkke Wikipedia does. We do not need to worry about words being too general because this wiki is already dealing in specifics. On a Tolkien wiki, you see the page “Shire” or “One Ring” and you are going to obviously think of the exact things the article is about because this wiki would not actually have a complete page on the definition of the word. Stuff like that could go in perhaps etymology sections of articles. I do not mind articles being exceptions to the policy, but at this point, there is no clear guidelines as to what would make an article exceptional beside the obvious like being an actual book or film or media name. Why is the Shire page an exemption along with the One Ring, and the Yale. To point out quickly now, I do not think that the reason should be because they are iconic because anyone can find something iconic and popular. Also the page would be just as recognizable without the world “the” as as I said before, we do not have to deal with basic definitions getting in the way because people would already be in the know that Shire is referring to the hobbit country since we do not need a page on its basic definition as Wikipedia does. Also, regarding the One Ring page, we have a page called Three Rings, a page called Seven Rings, and a page called Nine Rings. Those page names would be so vague if we dealt with things outside of Tolkien, but the fact that we do not means that those pages are recognizable since they can only be referring to one thing.

Edit: I think that any reply to this should be put on the naming policy talk page because my suggestion has already reached further than this page specifically. -- Dour1234, 12 April 2022 (UTC)