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Talk:Reunited Kingdom

Revision as of 08:55, 17 November 2020 by Sage (Talk | contribs)

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Map in the Infobox

The map in the infobox is not canoncial. The map incorrectly does not show Anórien to be a part of the Reunited Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor. Anórien was still a part of Gondor during the War of the Ring and was never a part of Rohan. Although The Lord of the Rings does never mention the borders of the reunited kingdom it is unlikely that it did not include Anórien, which was still a part of Gondor during the War of the Ring. The Mering stream is mentioned as the eastern border of Rohan in Unfinished Tales Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan (iii) Cirion and Eorl in the paragraph with the footnotes 45 and 46 and on the dotted red line with the label "Border of Rohan" on the Map of Rohan, Gondor and Mordor that is included in some editions of The Return of the King. --Akhorahil 16:43, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

I created that map many years ago, based on one by Fonstad. Note that "many years ago" means that I also had different understanding about canon and accuracy of information and I wasn't much concerned about how accurate to canon was. I am not sure if Fonstad's text accompanying the map give some textual evidence or rationale about her layout. If the map contradicts canonical information, I don't have anything to say in favor of the map. Sage 08:55, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Geography

The information about the borders of the Reunited Kingdom during the reign of Elessar is partly wrong and partly speculative. It is wrong that they correspond to Gondor's borders at its largest extension and it is wrong that the field of Celebrant or the river Limlight is the northern border of the Reunited Kingdom, because that is the northern border of Rohan and Aragorn renewed the grant of Rohan to Éomer. In the Lord of the Rings the borders of the reunited kingdom of Arnor and Gondor during the reign of Elessar are not mentioned (especially not in Appendix A II The Kings of the Mark Third Line). The exact status of the Shire, of the Treegarth of Isengard and of Drúadan Forest are not known from the wording of the grants. --Akhorahil 16:43, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Shire

It is only mentioned that the Shire was made a "King Elessar issues an edict that Men are not to enter the Shire, and he makes it a Free Land under the protection of the Northern Scepre" in Appendix B Later Events concerning the Members of the Fellowship of the Ring S.R. 1427, but not whether this means autonomy and self-rule as part of Arnor or it not being a part of Arnor. However it is mentioned that the Hobbits say "Our King, we call him" about Elessar in Appendix A I (iii) The North-kingdom and the Dúnedain. It appears odd to calle somebody "our" King if one's Country is not part of the Kingdom. It is also mentioned that King Elessar made the Thain of the Shire, the Master (of Buckland) and the Mayor (of the Shire) "Counsellors of the North-kingdom" that Appendix B Later Events concerning the Members of the Fellowship of the Ring S.R. 1434. It would seem odd to make leaders of a realm councillors of a kingdom if the leaders of that realm are not part of the Kingdom. In addition, the Shire used to be part of the Kingdom of Arnor and of the Kingdom of Arthedain before. --Akhorahil 16:43, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Drúadan forest

It is only stated that Aragorn has his heralds announce "The Forest of Drúadan he gives to Ghân-buri-Ghân and his folk, to be their own forwever; and hereafter let no man enter it without their leave" in The Return of the King, Many Partings. "to be their own forever" and "let no man enter it without their leave" sounds very much like Drúadan forest is not part of the Reunited Kingdom, because otherwise he could have said that he as the King issues an edict that Men are not to enter the Forest of Drúadan like the edict that he issued for the Shire.

Valley of Orthanc

"But I will give to Ents all this valley to do with it as they will, so long as they keep a watch upon Orthanc and see that none enter it without my leave". This sounds like the valley of Orthanc is not part of the Reunited Kingdom, but that the tower of Orthanc was still part of the Reunited Kingdom, because the King wanted no one to enter without his leave.