Talk:Doors of Durin

From Tolkien Gateway
Revision as of 01:27, 4 March 2021 by Grace18 (talk | contribs)

Latest comment: 4 March 2021 by Grace18 in topic An Inconsistency

Do we have a category for this type of entry? --Ebakunin 14:59, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

Not that I can think of, any suggestions? --Hyarion 15:03, 19 June 2006 (EDT)
Dwarvish structures? --Narfil Palùrfalas 15:17, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

not a riddle

The inscription says "Say 'friend' and enter." Gandalf mis-translated it. Only then did it become a riddle.

Description in the narrative

The narrative describes the shapes of the door as "two trees, each bearing crescent moons". In the drawing the trees don't bear crescent moons, but their branches are shaped like crescents.

Then Gimli notices the emblems of Durin, and Legolas notices "The Tree of the High Elves". In the drawing there is no tree other than the two trees. What this Tree is, it is not explained, but for some reason Foster identifies is as Galathilion from the Silmarillion. He also says that Galathilion, bearing crescents, is an emblem of the Eldar. Sage 11:58, 20 June 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

An Inconsistency

The 1st § should be erased because there's no source available (I've hardly searched them) and let think really wrong things about the subject. Unsigned comment by Erendis (talk • contribs).

I think the point of the section is kinda missed now. The inconsistency lays on the chronology, not on the translation of the name of Khazad-dum as Moria, which is not. --LorenzoCB 12:53, 3 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think we should still include the bit about the name Moria not being widely used until after it was taken over by Durin's Bane, even though it appears on the doors. It's a notable inconsistency. There's discussion of it in the The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, pp. 281-2, for the statement "Durin, Lord of Moria" on the doors. --Grace18 15:52, 3 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I "the name Moria not being widely used until after it was taken over by Durin's Bane" Grace18, could you give formal sources about this ? Unsigned comment by Erendis (talk • contribs).
"Greatest of all the mansions of the Dwarves was Khazad-dûm, the Dwarrowdelf, Hadhodrond in the Elvish tongue, that was afterwards in the days of its darkness called Moria." Quenta Silmarillion, of the Sindar.
"Khazad-dûm, the Dwarrowdelf, that is now called the Black Pit, Moria in the Elvish tongue." Gimli in The Fellowship of the Ring
Both quotes seem to imply that the name Moria came to be used commonly only later, after its fall. Although, to be fair, this does not mean that the name was not used by the Elves earlier, and it is quite possible that it was. However, it was a derogatory term, ("Black Chasm"), even if only named for its being underground. And as pointed out in the Reader's Companion, the doors were made during a time of friendship between the Elves and Dwarves, while Durin III was ruler of Khazad-dȗm, and, "Moria was hardly what the ruler of Khazad-dȗm would have chosen to have inscribed on his doors." There are several possible explanations with it, which are discussed in the Companion, and range from foresight on the part of Celebrimbor, to Gandalf simply translating "Hadhodrond" as he read off the inscription. In my opinion, it's still a notable inconsistency, at least worthy of a small note somewhere in the article. But you are right, it is difficult to pin down a definite source. --Grace18 01:27, 4 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]