https://tolkiengateway.net/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Shivam&feedformat=atomTolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T18:44:04ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.39.3https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Shivam&diff=384001User:Shivam2023-12-22T17:44:56Z<p>Shivam: </p>
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<div>{{user infobox| image=[[File:The_Rings_of_Power_(TV_series)_-_Durin's_Bane.png|300px]]<br />
|name=Shivam| language=[[Wikipedia:Hindi|Hindi]] <br>[[Wikipedia:English|English]]<br><br />
[[Khuzdul]] (in process)| location=[[Wikipedia:India|India]]| birth=[[28 February]], [[2005]]| age=18| gender=Male| height=5'7"(173 cm) | hair=Black| eyes=Black| Talk Page=[[User talk:Shivam|Talk to me here]]| email=chieftainofthedunedain.bgp@gmail.com<br />
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<center><dl><dd><b><br />
<i><br />
"Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden!<br><br />
Dire deeds awake: dark is it eastward.<br><br />
Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded!<br><br />
Forth Eorlingas!<br><br />
<br />
Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden!<br><br />
Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter!<br><br />
Spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered,<br><br />
a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!<br><br />
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!"<br />
<br></i><br />
</b></dd></dl></center><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 65%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="50%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="Who am I?"></span><b>Who am I?</b></h3><p><b>I</b> am a fan and admirer of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s works. </p>I have been using [[Tolkien Gateway]] for about a year and became a member on [[5 April]] , [[2021]]. I have a special interest in [[The Lord of the Rings]] and [[The Hobbit]] books.<br><br />
<br />
I was introduced to [[Legendarium|Tolkien's Legendarium]] when I was about nine or ten years old and like many others it was through [[Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson's]] [[The Lord of the Rings (film_series)|LOTR trilogy]] but it was not until [[2018]] when I started gaining information about it.<br><br />
<br />
I was intruigued by the genealogies given in the Lord of the Rings book. After that I sort of memorised the whole family tree of [[Elros|Elros]] (because I find the [[Númenóreans|Númenóreans]] very relatable). It was just the beginning, I ended up studying [[House of Hurin]], [[House of Durin]] and many more.<br><br />
<br />
If anyone has any ideas or work related to genealogies please let me know.<br><br></td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 65%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My Work"><b>My Work</b></span></h3><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|My Edits]] <br><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|My contributions]] <br><br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 65%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My views on few things"><b>My views on few things</b></span></h3><br />
{| style="margin:0 auto;" class="mw-collapsed mw-collapsible toccolours" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
! align=center | Enter my mind<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very interesting that if we see [[Eldarion]]'s bloodline, he is destined to be king of Middle-Earth (apart from Dwarven realms) -<br />
|-<br />
| He inherits Mannish lands from his father-Aragorn.<br />
|-<br />
| And Elvish lands from his mother-Arwen.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •How great The Great Armament would have been that even the [[Valar]] didn't choose to fight rather they called upon [[Eru]].<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I think at the end of Third Age, the lifespan of the Dunedain was somewhat increased. The only examples we have are of Aragorn and Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Faramir lived upto the age of 120 which is longer than his ancestors (upto five generations). His last ancestor to pass hundred years was [[Belecthor II]] who was born about 231 years before the birth of Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Now, Aragorn lived for 210 years. This was longer than many of his ancestors. His last ancestor to live longer than him was Celepharn who was born 1952 years before him. Also the last of his line before him to pass 200 years was Malvegil, Celepharn's grandson. There are 26 generations between Celepharn and Aragorn - 11 Kings of Arthedain and 15 Chieftains of Dunedain.<br />
|-<br />
| But there are some contradicting ones too like the [[Princes of Dol Amroth]]. When Aragorn was born in TA 2931 [[Adrahil II]] was the Prince who was born in TA 2917, just 14 years before Aragorn. During Aragorn's life atleast five Princes lived and died which tells a lot.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •At the time of [[Downfall of Numenor]], Elendil had a better claim to kingship than [[Ar-Pharazon]] as there have been atleast two changes in the line of [[Kings of Numenor]] whereas in Elendil's family, the lordship passed from father to son in direct line.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very suspicious that after [[Pelendur]] chose Earnil II as King of Gondor, the position of Steward of Gondor became heriditary.<br><br />
|}<br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
"***" indicates [[King of Númenor]] or [[High King of the Dúnedain]]<br><br />
"**" indicates [[King of Arnor]]<br><br />
"*" indicates [[King of Arthedain]]<br><br />
"#" indicates [[King of Gondor]]<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; border: 2px solid black; padding: 3px; background: pink;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH=''[[House of Hador]]''<br/>|}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR=[[Elros]]<br/>***Tar-Minyatur<br/><small>''FA 531-SA 442''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VAR| |TIN| |MAN| |ATA| | | | | | | | | | |VAR=***[[Vardamir|Vardamir Nólimon]]<br/><small>''61-471''</small><br/>|TIN=''[[Tindómiel]]''|MAN=[[Manwendil]]|ATA=[[Atanalcar]]}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |AMA| | | |VAR| | | |AUL| | | |NOL| | | | |AMA=***[[Tar-Amandil]]<br/><small>''192-603''</small>|VAR=''[[Vardilmë]]''<br/><small>''203''</small>|AUL=[[Aulendil (son of Vardamir)|Aulendil]]<br/><small>''213''</small>|NOL=[[Nolondil]]<br/><small>''222''</small>}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ELE| | | | | |VEA| |EAR| |MAI| |YAV| |ORO| |AXA|ELE=***[[Tar-Elendil]]<br/>[[Parmaitë]]<br/><small>''350-751''</small>|VEA=[[Vëantur]]|EAR=[[Eärendur (son of Tar-Amandil)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''361''</small>|MAI=''[[Mairen]]''<br/><small>''377''</small>|YAV=''[[Yávien]]''<br/><small>''371''</small>|ORO=[[Oromendil]]<br/><small>''382''</small>|AXA=[[Axantur]]<br/><small>''395''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |`|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ERY| | | | | | | | | |ANA|ERY=Earlier lords<br/>of Andúnië|ANA=***[[Tar-Anárion]]<br/><small>''1003-1404''</small>}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |OLD| |SIS| |SUR|OLD=''Older Sister''| SIS=''Older Sister''|SUR=***[[Tar-Súrion]]<br/><small>''1174-1574''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |TEL| |ISI|TEL=***''[[Tar-Telperiën]]''<br/><small>''1320-1731''</small><br/><br/>|ISI=[[Isilmo]]}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |MIN|MIN=***[[Tar-Minastir]]<br/><small>''1474-1873''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CIR=***[[Tar-Ciryatan]]<br/><small>''1634-2035''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |HER|y|VAN|HER=[[Herucalmo]]<br/>[[Tar-Anducal]]<br/><small>''2286-2657''</small><br/>|VAN=***''[[Tar-Vanimeldë]]''<br/><small>''2277-2637''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |ALC| | |ALC=***[[Tar-Alcarin]]<br/><small>''2406-2737''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |CAL| | |CAL=***[[Tar-Calmacil]]<br/>(Ar-Belzagar)<br/><small>''2516-2825''</small><br/>}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ARD| |GIM|ARD=***[[Tar-Ardamin]]<br/>(Ar-Avattârik)<br/><small>''2618-2899''</small>|GIM=[[Gimilzagar]]<br/><small>''2630''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ADU| | | | |ADU=***[[Ar-Adûnakhôr]]<br/>(Tar-Herunúmen)<br/><small>''2709-2962''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ZIM| | | | |ZIM=***[[Ar-Zimrathôn]]<br/>(Tar-Hostamir) )<br/><small>''2798-3033''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |D|~|~|~|7| |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|EAR| |LIN|:|SAK| | | | |EAR=[[Eärendur (Lord of Andúnië)|Eärendur]]<br/>Fifteenth Lord<br/>of Andúnië|LIN=''[[Lindórië]] ''|SAK=***[[Ar-Sakalthôr]]<br/>(Tar-Falassion)<br/><small>''2876-3102''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |]|~|J| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |INZ|y|GIM| | | | |INZ=''[[Inzilbêth]] ''|GIM=***[[Ar-Gimilzôr]]<br/>(Tar-Telemnar)<br/><small>''2960-3177''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|NUM| |PAL| |GMK| | | | |NUM=[[Númendil]]|PAL=***[[Tar-Palantir]]<br/>(Ar-Inziladûn)<br/><small>''3035-3255''</small>|GMK=[[Gimilkhâd]]<br/><small>''3044-3243''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|AMA| |MIR|~|PHA|AMA=[[Amandil]]<br/>Last Lord</br/>of Andúnië<br/>|MIR=''[[Tar-Míriel]]''<br/>''(Ar-Zimraphel) ''<br/><small>''3117-3319'' †</small><br/>|PHA=***[[Ar-Pharazôn]]<br/>(Tar-Calion)<br/><small>''3118-3319'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELE=***[[Elendil]]<br/><small>''3119-3441'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ISI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ANA|ISI=***[[Isildur]]<br/><small>''S.A.3209-T.A.2'' †</small><br/>|ANA=#[[Anárion]]<br/><small>''S.A.3219-S.A.3441'' †</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| |ARA| |CIR| |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| |ELE=[[Elendur (son of Isildur)| Elendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3299-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|ARA=[[Aratan]]<br/><small>''SA 3339-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|CIR=[[Ciryon]]<br/><small>''SA 3379-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|VAL=**[[Valandil (King of Arnor)|Valandil]]<br/><small>''SA 3430-TA 249''</small>|MEN=#[[Meneldil]]<br/><small>''SA 3318-TA 158''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |CEM| |ELD=**[[Eldacar (King of Arnor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''87-339''</small>|CEM=#[[Cemendur (King of Gondor)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3399-TA 238''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARA| | | | | | | | | | | | |EAR| |ARA=**[[Arantar]]<br/><small>''185-435''</small>|EAR=#[[Eärendil (King of Gondor)|Eärendil]]<br/><small>''TA 48-324''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| | | | | | | | | | | | |ANR| |TAR=**[[Tarcil]]<br/><small>''280-515''</small>|ANR=#[[Anardil (King of Gondor)|Anardil]]<br/><small>''136-411''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TRD| | | | | | | | | | | | |OST| |TRD=**[[Tarondor (King of Arnor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''372-602''</small>|OST=#[[Ostoher]]<br/><small>''222-492''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| |VAL=**[[Valandur]]<br/><small>''462-652'' †</small>|TAR=#Tarostar<br/>[[Rómendacil I]]<br/><small>''310-541'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |TUR| |ELD=**[[Elendur (King of Arnor)|Elendur]]<br/><small>''552-777''</small>|TUR=#[[Turambar (King of Gondor)|Turambar]]<br/><small>''397-667''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ERD| | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA| |ERD=**[[Eärendur (King of Arnor)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''640-861''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar I]]<br/><small>''480-748''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AML| |KOC| |KOR| | | | | | | | |SIR| |AML=*[[Amlaith]]<br/>of [[Fornost]]<br/><small>''726-946''</small>|KOC=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Cardolan]]|KOR=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Rhudaur]]|SIR=#[[Siriondil (King of Gondor)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''570-830''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |BEL| | | | | | | | | | |BER|~|FAL| |TCY|BEL=*[[Beleg (King of Arthedain)|Beleg]]<br/><small>''811-1029''</small>|BER=''[[Berúthiel]]''<br/>|FAL=#Tarannon<br/>[[Tarannon Falastur|Falastur]]<br/><small>''654-913''</small>|TCY=[[Tarciryan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERN|MAL=*[[Mallor]]<br/><small>''895-1110''</small>|ERN=#[[Eärnil I]]<br/><small>''736-936'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CEL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CEL=*[[Celepharn]]<br/><small>''979-1191''</small>|CIR=#[[Ciryandil]]<br/><small>''820-1015'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CLB| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HYA|CLB=*[[Celebrindor]]<br/><small>''1062-1272''</small>|HYA=#Ciryaher<br/>[[Hyarmendacil I]]<br/><small>''899-1149''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA|MVG=*[[Malvegil]]<br/><small>''1144-1349''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar II]]<br/>[[Alcarin]]<br/><small>''977-1226''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAR| |CMC|AGL=*[[Argeleb I]]<br/><small>''1226-1356'' †</small><br/>|NAR=#[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''1049-1294''</small>|CMC=#[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''1058-1304''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|-|-|.|}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VID| |MIN| | | |CLM| | |AVL=*[[Arveleg I]]<br/><small>''1309-1409'' †</small><br/>|VID=[[Vidugavia]]|MIN=#Minalcar<br/>[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''1126-1366''</small>|CLM=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |:|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VUM|y|VLC| | | | |:|APH=*[[Araphor]]<br/><small>''1391-1589''</small>|VUM=''[[Vidumavi]]''<br/>d. 1332|VLC=#[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''1194-1432''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | |CAS| | |AGL=*[[Argeleb II]]<br/><small>''1473-1670''</small>|ELD=#Vinitharya<br/>[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''1255-1490''</small><br/>|CAS=#[[Castamir]]<br/>the Usurper<br/><small>''1259-1447''</small> †<br/></small> }}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ORN| |ALD| | | |SNS| | |AVG=*[[Arvegil]]<br/><small>''1553-1743''</small>|ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/>''d. 1437'' †</small><br/>|ALD=#[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''1330-1540'' †</small><br/>|SNS=Sons<br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VYR| | | | |:| | | ||ARG=*[[Arveleg II]]<br/><small>''1633-1813''</small>|VYR=#Vinyarion<br/>[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''1391-1621''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |F|~|A|~|7| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |MND| |ANG| |SAN|AVL=*[[Araval]]<br/><small>''1711-1891''</small>|MND=#[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''1454-1634'' †</small><br/>|ANG=[[Angamaitë]]|SAN=[[Sangahyando]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APT| |OND| | | | | | | | | | | | |TLM| |MNS| |APT=*[[Araphant]]<br/><small>''1789-1964''</small>|OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/>of Gondor|TLM=#[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''1516-1636'' †</small><br/>|MNS=[[Minastan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARI|y|FIR| | | | | | | | | | | | |CHL| |TRD|ARI=*[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''1864-1975'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896''</small>|CHL=Children<br/>''d. 1636'' †</small>|TRD=#[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''1577-1798''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |]|~|~|~|7| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARN| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |TUT| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARN=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''1938-2106''</small>|TUT=#[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br/>Umbardacil<br/><small>''1632-1850''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NMC| | | | | | | |ARC| |AHL=[[Arahael]]<br/><small>''2012-2177''</small>|NMC=#[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''1684-1856'' †</small><br/>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ANR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CET| | | | | | | |CCL| |ANR=[[Aranuir]]<br/><small>''2084-2247''</small>|CET=#[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''1736-1936''</small>|CCL=[[Calimmacil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OND| | | |DTR| |SIR| |AVR=[[Aravir]]<br/><small>''2156-2319''</small>|OND=#[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''1787-1944'' †</small><br/>|DTR=''Daughter''|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | ||,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | | | | | | |ART| |FAR| |FIR| | | |MNT| |ERL| | |AGN=[[Aragorn I]]<br/><small>''2227-2327'' †</small><br/>|ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896'' †</small>|MNT=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|ERL=#[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''1883-2043''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERR| |AGL=[[Araglas]]<br/><small>''2296-2455''</small>|ERR=#[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''1928-2050'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHD| | |:| | | | | |AHD=[[Arahad I]]<br/><small>''2365-2523''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGT| | |:| | | | | |AGT=[[Aragost]]<br/><small>''2431-2588''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVN| | |:| | | | | |AVN=[[Aravorn]]<br/><small>''2497-2654''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARH| | |:| | | | | |ARH=[[Arahad II]]<br/><small>''2563-2719''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ASS| | |:| | | | | |ASS=[[Arassuil]]<br/><small>''2628-2784''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH| | |:| | | | | |ATH=[[Arathorn I]]<br/><small>''2693-2848'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | |GIL|AGN=[[Argonui]]<br/><small>''2757-2912''</small>|GIL=[[Gilbarad]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ADR| |DIR|y|IVO|ADR=[[Arador]]<br/><small>''2820-2930'' †</small><br/>|DIR=[[Dírhael]]<br/>|IVO=''[[Ivorwen]]''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH|~|y|~|GIL| | |ATH=[[Arathorn II]]<br/><small>''2873-2933'' †</small><br/>|GIL=''[[Gilraen]]''<br/><small>''2907-3007''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |AGN|y|ARW| |AGN=***[[Aragorn|Aragorn II]]<br/>King Elessar<br/><small>''2931-FoA 120''</small>|ARW=''[[Arwen]]''<br/><small>''TA 241-FoA 121''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| |DTS| |ELD=***[[Eldarion]]<small><br>''FoA 1-220''</br></small>|DTS=''Daughters''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-colour:white;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| | | | |MEN=''Hundred generations <br> of men''</br>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
[[Category:House of Telcontar]]<br />
<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 2px solid black; padding: 3px; background: pink;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUR=* [[Durin|Durin I]]<br/>the Deathless<br/><small>''[[Years of the Trees|Y.T.]]''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUI=* [[Durin II]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUN=* [[Durin III]]<br/><small>''c. {{SA|1500}}''</small><br/>}} <br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DRI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DRI=* [[Durin IV]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DRN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DRN=* [[Durin V]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DIN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DIN=* [[Durin VI]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1731}}-{{TA|1980|n}}'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |NAI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAI=* [[Náin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1832|n}}-{{TA|1981|n}}'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |THR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |THR=* [[Thráin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1934|n}}-{{TA|2190|n}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |THO| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |THO=* [[Thorin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2035|n}}-{{TA|2289|n}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |GLO| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |GLO=* [[Glóin (King of Durin's Folk)|Glóin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2136|n}}-{{TA|2385|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |OIN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OIN=* [[Óin (King of Durin's Folk)|Óin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2238|n}}-{{TA|2488|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |NAN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAN=* [[Náin II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2338|n}}-{{TA|2585|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DAI| | | | | | | |BOR| | | | | | |DAI=* [[Dáin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2440|n}}-{{TA|2589|n}}'' †</small><br/>|BOR=[[Borin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2450|n}}-{{TA|2711|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |THR| |FRO| |GRO| | | | | | | |FAR| | | | | | |THR=* [[Thrór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2542|n}}-{{TA|2790|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FRO=[[Frór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2552|n}}-{{TA|2589|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GRO=[[Grór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2563|n}}-{{TA|2805|n}}''</small>|FAR=[[Farin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2560|n}}-{{TA|2803|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | |,|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |THN| | | | | |NIN| | | |FUN| | | | | |GRN| | |THN=* [[Thráin|Thráin II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2644|n}}-{{TA|2850|n}}'' †</small><br/>|NIN=[[Náin (son of Grór)|Náin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2665|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FUN=[[Fundin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2662|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GRN=[[Gróin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2671|n}}-{{TA|2923|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|TOS| |FRE| |DIS| |DIF| |BAL| |DWA| |OIN| |GLO|TOS=* [[Thorin|Thorin II Oakenshield]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2746|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FRE=[[Frerin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2751|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|DIS=[[Dís]]<br/><small>''born {{TA|2760|n}}''</small>|DIF=* [[Dáin Ironfoot|Dáin II Ironfoot]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2767|n}}-{{TA|3019|n}}'' †</small><br/>|BAL=[[Balin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2763|n}}-{{TA|2994|n}}'' †</small><br/>|DWA=[[Dwalin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2772|n}}-{{FoA|91}}''</small>|OIN=[[Óin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2774|n}}-{{TA|2994|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GLO=[[Glóin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2783|n}}-{{FoA|15}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |FIL| |KIL| |TSH| | | | | | | | | | | | | |GEF|FIL=[[Fíli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2859|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>| KIL=[[Kíli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2864|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>|TSH=* [[Thorin Stonehelm| Thorin III Stonehelm]]<br/><small>''born {{TA|2866|n}}''</small>|GEF=[[Gimli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2879|n}}-{{FoA|120}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DAL=* [[Durin VII]] and Last<br/><small>''[[Fourth Age]]''</small><br>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div></div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&diff=381074User talk:Hyarion2023-10-08T11:09:42Z<p>Shivam: /* Regarding The Atlas of Middle Earth */</p>
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<div>{| style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background-color: #f9f9f9; color: black; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 1em; padding: 0.2em; float: right; clear: right;"<br />
|-<br />
!align="center"|[[Image:archive.png|50px|Archive]]<br>Archives<br />
----<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 3|2007]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 4|2008]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 5|2009]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 6|2010]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 7|2011]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 8|2012]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 9|2013]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 10|2014]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 11|2015]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 12|2016]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 13|2017]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 14|2018]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 15|2019]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 16|2020]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 17|2021]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 18|2022]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 19|2023]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
|}<br />
{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
== Just a doubt ==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion<br><br />
I had a simple doubt<br><br />
Can we copy an entire page created by someone else and just put our name on it?<br><br />
I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but i have to clear this.<br><br />
Thanks.<br><br />
--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 03:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Shivam! I'm not sure the context of your question, if you're referring to copying a page from Tolkien Gateway, or to Tolkien Gateway, but either way the answer would be a definite no. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I mean say you created a page on Tolkien Gateway and I copied it entirely and put my name on it and shared it's link on my user page.(Just an example, I won't do such thing). --[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:00, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::No, that sounds a bit unethical. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Well something like that has happened to me. Although i haven't created many pages, actually just one, so someone copied it entirely and put their name on it. Is there anything i should do?.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Can you provide more context? Thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 12:32, 15 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I solved it, thanks.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Concerning article cleanup ==<br />
<br />
Hi! I've been cleaning up some articles lately that have had headings like "Plot" or "Synopsis." Should I be putting these as sub-headings under a "History" heading?<br />
[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 00:34, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Brandon! It's so great to have you on the team! Great question, if we use [[Hordes of the Things]] as an example, I think the "History" section could likely be eliminated. Pretty much everything about the subject will be considered "history", so the heading, at least to me, seems a little redundant. What are your thoughts though? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:03, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think that there needs to be a heading over the sub-headings, and that ''could'' be "History," but it could be something else. I, personally, think that "History" works just fine, as it ''does'' all realate to history, but what do you think? There ''could'' be just sub-headings, but that might look weird... --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 01:45, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah yes, I agree about sub-headings needing a heading. I meant I would be okay with those sub-headings being converted to headings. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 02:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I agree. I think it ''would'' be fine, but in the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] it shows that only the following headings can be used: '''History, Legacy, Etymology, Other names, Genealogy, Other versions of the legendarium, Inspiration, Portrayal in adaptations, See also, Notes, External links, References,''' and '''Further reading.''' The manual of style could be updated, we could come up with another heading that can be used in all of these situations so there's a ''general way of doing it'', or we could just convert those to regular headings. What's your opinion? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 02:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Hm, I think the Manual of Style just says "typically", so it's not an absolute requirement (if you see phrasing that's more strict, definitely let me know). Those headings are primarily intended for in-universe characters, locations, etc. so it's perfectly fine if ''Hordes of the Things'' deviates from that. It's difficult to list all the possible top-level headings, so I usually will check some articles on similar subjects to see what the consensus seems to be and go from there. I agree though, expanding the policy so everyone doesn't have to wing it isn't a bad idea, I just want to avoid having a policy that is 1,000 pages long :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I think that it's a good idea to add a few new heading options to the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]. I'm not sure if it's possible but, because I'm working on cleaning up a big portion of the articles, I could add new heading "defaults" to the Manual of Style as needed. That is, if I'm able to get editing permission. Obviously, I wouldn't abuse this power. There are definitely a lot of possibilities for this, but I would just add the "primary" ones. i.e. Plot, Production, Bibliography, and any other main ones I come upon. I definitely agree that we shouldn't have a 1,000 page long policy, though! :D Is this possible? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 03:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
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==Lorenzo's user talk==<br />
I have seen that you deleted the new LorenzoCB talk page, I need that page to communicate with him. Excessive Vandalism made him protect that page, so only admins can edit it. I'm not an admin, and neither are three quarters of the people on TG, and when we need to contact him we would not be able to. That is why I made that page and would like to keep it so we Gatekeepers can contact him--[[User:Tformer|Tformer]] ([[User talk:Tformer|talk]]) 19:23, 17 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Few Doubts ==<br />
<br />
Do we have the right to use soundtracks of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings series?<br><br />
What is the sequence of layout of a page, I mean what's the correct order of writing History, Etymology, Genealogy, References, Other Versions, etc?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 07:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Great questions! We don't have any kind of official approval for use of soundtracks, but depending on what the specific scenario is, we can usually use something in a limited capacity under the [https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/ fair use doctrine]. I would say the [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style#Article_layout]] looks to be pretty accurate. We usually have the references at the bottom. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 13:40, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Great, thanks a lot.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 13:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Testing Notification System ==<br />
<br />
Hi [[User:LorenzoCB]], this is just a test. I have configured the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Echo Echo Extension] for MediaWiki, which adds a notification bell in the top right. In theory if I link your username and add my signature to this message you should get a notification. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 05:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Roget that. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] ([[User talk:LorenzoCB|talk]]) 09:26, 27 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding The Atlas of Middle Earth ==<br />
<br />
Can we upload maps and depictions from The Atlas of Middle Earth? [[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 12:59, 21 June 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 13:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:No, we don't have the permission to use them. I think we have a couple of those maps but we better keep them as exceptions. What do you need? [[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] ([[User talk:LorenzoCB|talk]]) 13:57, 3 July 2023 (UTC)<br />
::The one showing the Circles of the World in the Foreword before the Introduction. [[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 04:39, 4 October 2023 (UTC)<br />
:::You refer to something like [[:File:Sage_-_Evolution_of_Arda.jpg|this]]? Actually we have some drawings by Tolkien himself concerning [[Ambarkanta]] (see [[Ambarkanta maps]]). But note that this diagram by Fonstad is based on Ambarkanta and I think they aren't consistent to the very vague cosmology of the Silmarillion. [[User:Sage|Sage]] ([[User talk:Sage|talk]]) 06:28, 4 October 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Yes, [[:File:Sage_-_Evolution_of_Arda.jpg|this]] one. The one given in The Atlas of Middle Earth look a bit better but this helps. Thanks.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Shivam&diff=381073User:Shivam2023-10-08T11:05:39Z<p>Shivam: </p>
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<div>{{user infobox| image=[[File:The_Rings_of_Power_(TV_series)_-_Durin's_Bane.png|300px]]<br />
|name=Shivam| language=[[Wikipedia:Hindi|Hindi]] <br>[[Wikipedia:English|English]]<br><br />
[[Khuzdul]] (in process)| location=[[Wikipedia:India|India]]| birth=[[28 February]], [[2005]]| age=18| gender=Male| height=5'7"(173 cm) | hair=Black| eyes=Black| Talk Page=[[User talk:Shivam|Talk to me here]]| email=chieftainofthedunedain.bgp@gmail.com<br />
| userboxes=<br />
{{User India}}<br><br />
{{user 2y}}<br><br />
{{user 500e}}<br><br />
{{user numenor}}<br><br />
{{user rohan}}<br><br />
{{User dunedain north}}<br><br />
{{user men}}<br><br />
{{user good}}<br><br />
{{user lore-1}}<br><br />
{{user en-3}}<br><br />
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}}<br />
<center><dl><dd><b><br />
<i>"Ho! Ho! Ho! To the bottle I go<br><br />
To heal my heart and drown my woe.<br><br />
Rain may fall and wind may blow,<br><br />
And many miles be still to go<br><br />
But under a tall tree I will lie,<br><br />
And let the clouds go sailing by."<br />
<br></i><br />
</b></dd></dl></center><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 65%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="50%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="Who am I?"></span><b>Who am I?</b></h3><p><b>I</b> am a fan and admirer of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s works. </p>I have been using [[Tolkien Gateway]] for about a year and became a member on [[5 April]] , [[2021]]. I have a special interest in [[The Lord of the Rings]] and [[The Hobbit]] books.<br><br />
<br />
I was introduced to [[Legendarium|Tolkien's Legendarium]] when I was about nine or ten years old and like many others it was through [[Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson's]] [[The Lord of the Rings (film_series)|LOTR trilogy]] but it was not until [[2018]] when I started gaining information about it.<br><br />
<br />
I was intruigued by the genealogies given in the Lord of the Rings book. After that I sort of memorised the whole family tree of [[Elros|Elros]] (because I find the [[Númenóreans|Númenóreans]] very relatable). It was just the beginning, I ended up studying [[House of Hurin]], [[House of Durin]] and many more.<br><br />
<br />
If anyone has any ideas or work related to genealogies please let me know.<br><br></td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 65%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My Work"><b>My Work</b></span></h3><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|My Edits]] <br><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|My contributions]] <br><br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 65%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My views on few things"><b>My views on few things</b></span></h3><br />
{| style="margin:0 auto;" class="mw-collapsed mw-collapsible toccolours" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
! align=center | Enter my mind<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very interesting that if we see [[Eldarion]]'s bloodline, he is destined to be king of Middle-Earth (apart from Dwarven realms) -<br />
|-<br />
| He inherits Mannish lands from his father-Aragorn.<br />
|-<br />
| And Elvish lands from his mother-Arwen.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •How great The Great Armament would have been that even the [[Valar]] didn't choose to fight rather they called upon [[Eru]].<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I think at the end of Third Age, the lifespan of the Dunedain was somewhat increased. The only examples we have are of Aragorn and Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Faramir lived upto the age of 120 which is longer than his ancestors (upto five generations). His last ancestor to pass hundred years was [[Belecthor II]] who was born about 231 years before the birth of Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Now, Aragorn lived for 210 years. This was longer than many of his ancestors. His last ancestor to live longer than him was Celepharn who was born 1952 years before him. Also the last of his line before him to pass 200 years was Malvegil, Celepharn's grandson. There are 26 generations between Celepharn and Aragorn - 11 Kings of Arthedain and 15 Chieftains of Dunedain.<br />
|-<br />
| But there are some contradicting ones too like the [[Princes of Dol Amroth]]. When Aragorn was born in TA 2931 [[Adrahil II]] was the Prince who was born in TA 2917, just 14 years before Aragorn. During Aragorn's life atleast five Princes lived and died which tells a lot.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •At the time of [[Downfall of Numenor]], Elendil had a better claim to kingship than [[Ar-Pharazon]] as there have been atleast two changes in the line of [[Kings of Numenor]] whereas in Elendil's family, the lordship passed from father to son in direct line.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very suspicious that after [[Pelendur]] chose Earnil II as King of Gondor, the position of Steward of Gondor became heriditary.<br><br />
|}<br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
"***" indicates [[King of Númenor]] or [[High King of the Dúnedain]]<br><br />
"**" indicates [[King of Arnor]]<br><br />
"*" indicates [[King of Arthedain]]<br><br />
"#" indicates [[King of Gondor]]<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; border: 2px solid black; padding: 3px; background: pink;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH=''[[House of Hador]]''<br/>|}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR=[[Elros]]<br/>***Tar-Minyatur<br/><small>''FA 531-SA 442''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VAR| |TIN| |MAN| |ATA| | | | | | | | | | |VAR=***[[Vardamir|Vardamir Nólimon]]<br/><small>''61-471''</small><br/>|TIN=''[[Tindómiel]]''|MAN=[[Manwendil]]|ATA=[[Atanalcar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |AMA| | | |VAR| | | |AUL| | | |NOL| | | | |AMA=***[[Tar-Amandil]]<br/><small>''192-603''</small>|VAR=''[[Vardilmë]]''<br/><small>''203''</small>|AUL=[[Aulendil (son of Vardamir)|Aulendil]]<br/><small>''213''</small>|NOL=[[Nolondil]]<br/><small>''222''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ELE| | | | | |VEA| |EAR| |MAI| |YAV| |ORO| |AXA|ELE=***[[Tar-Elendil]]<br/>[[Parmaitë]]<br/><small>''350-751''</small>|VEA=[[Vëantur]]|EAR=[[Eärendur (son of Tar-Amandil)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''361''</small>|MAI=''[[Mairen]]''<br/><small>''377''</small>|YAV=''[[Yávien]]''<br/><small>''371''</small>|ORO=[[Oromendil]]<br/><small>''382''</small>|AXA=[[Axantur]]<br/><small>''395''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |`|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space: nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELA|y|SIL| |ISI| |MEN|y|ALM| | | | | |CAL| |LIN| |ARD| |CEM|ELA=[[Elatan]]<BR/>of [[Andúnië]]|SIL=''[[Silmarien]]''<br/><small>''521''</small><br/>|ISI=''[[Isilmë]]''<br/><small>''532''</small>|MEN=[[Írimon]]<br/>***[[Tar-Meneldur]]<br/><small>''543-942''</small>|ALM=''[[Almarian]]''|CAL=[[Caliondo]]<br/><small>''512-900''</small>|LIN=''[[Lindissë]]''<br/><small>''551''</small>|ARD=[[Ardamir (son of Axantur)|Ardamir]]<br/><small>''562''</small>|CEM=[[Cemendur (son of Axantur)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''575''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|'| |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|VAL| |ANA|y|ERE| |AIL|y|ORC| |ALM| |MAL| | | | | |IRI| |HAL|VAL=[[Valandil (Lord of Andúnië)|Valandil]], First<br/>[[Lord of Andúnië]]|ANA=Anardil<br/>***[[Tar-Aldarion]]<br/><small>''700-1098''</small><br/>|ERE=''[[Erendis]]''<br/><small>''771-985'' †</small></small><br/>|AIL=''[[Ailinel]]''<br/><small>''712''</small>|ORC=[[Orchaldor]]|ALM=''[[Almiel]]''<br/><small>''729''</small>|MAL=[[Malantur]]<br/><small>''670''</small>|IRI=''[[Írildë]]''<br/><small>''700''</small>|HAL=[[Hallatan]] of<br/>[[Hyarastorni]]<br/><small>''711''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | |ANC| | | | | |SOR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NES| |HAL|ANC=***''[[Tar-Ancalimë]]''<br/><small>''873-1285''</small>|SOR=[[Soronto]]<br/><small>''799''</small>|NES=''[[Nessanië]]''<br/><small>''840''</small>|HAL=[[Hallacar]]<br/><small>''852-1211''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |L|~|~|~|~|~|y|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|J| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ERY| | | | | | | | | |ANA|ERY=Earlier lords<br/>of Andúnië|ANA=***[[Tar-Anárion]]<br/><small>''1003-1404''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |OLD| |SIS| |SUR|OLD=''Older Sister''| SIS=''Older Sister''|SUR=***[[Tar-Súrion]]<br/><small>''1174-1574''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |TEL| |ISI|TEL=***''[[Tar-Telperiën]]''<br/><small>''1320-1731''</small><br/><br/>|ISI=[[Isilmo]]}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |MIN|MIN=***[[Tar-Minastir]]<br/><small>''1474-1873''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CIR=***[[Tar-Ciryatan]]<br/><small>''1634-2035''</small>}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |ATN|ATN=***[[Tar-Atanamir]]<br/>the Great<br/><small>''1800-2221''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |F|~|~|~|[| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | |:| | |ANC|ANC=***[[Tar-Ancalimon]]<br/><small>''1986-2386''</small>}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | |:| | |TEL|TEL=***[[Tar-Telemmaitë]]<br/><small>''2136-2526''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |HER|y|VAN|HER=[[Herucalmo]]<br/>[[Tar-Anducal]]<br/><small>''2286-2657''</small><br/>|VAN=***''[[Tar-Vanimeldë]]''<br/><small>''2277-2637''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |ALC| | |ALC=***[[Tar-Alcarin]]<br/><small>''2406-2737''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |CAL| | |CAL=***[[Tar-Calmacil]]<br/>(Ar-Belzagar)<br/><small>''2516-2825''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |F|~|v|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ARD| |GIM|ARD=***[[Tar-Ardamin]]<br/>(Ar-Avattârik)<br/><small>''2618-2899''</small>|GIM=[[Gimilzagar]]<br/><small>''2630''</small>}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ADU| | | | |ADU=***[[Ar-Adûnakhôr]]<br/>(Tar-Herunúmen)<br/><small>''2709-2962''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ZIM| | | | |ZIM=***[[Ar-Zimrathôn]]<br/>(Tar-Hostamir) )<br/><small>''2798-3033''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |D|~|~|~|7| |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|EAR| |LIN|:|SAK| | | | |EAR=[[Eärendur (Lord of Andúnië)|Eärendur]]<br/>Fifteenth Lord<br/>of Andúnië|LIN=''[[Lindórië]] ''|SAK=***[[Ar-Sakalthôr]]<br/>(Tar-Falassion)<br/><small>''2876-3102''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |]|~|J| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |INZ|y|GIM| | | | |INZ=''[[Inzilbêth]] ''|GIM=***[[Ar-Gimilzôr]]<br/>(Tar-Telemnar)<br/><small>''2960-3177''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|NUM| |PAL| |GMK| | | | |NUM=[[Númendil]]|PAL=***[[Tar-Palantir]]<br/>(Ar-Inziladûn)<br/><small>''3035-3255''</small>|GMK=[[Gimilkhâd]]<br/><small>''3044-3243''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|AMA| |MIR|~|PHA|AMA=[[Amandil]]<br/>Last Lord</br/>of Andúnië<br/>|MIR=''[[Tar-Míriel]]''<br/>''(Ar-Zimraphel) ''<br/><small>''3117-3319'' †</small><br/>|PHA=***[[Ar-Pharazôn]]<br/>(Tar-Calion)<br/><small>''3118-3319'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELE=***[[Elendil]]<br/><small>''3119-3441'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ISI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ANA|ISI=***[[Isildur]]<br/><small>''S.A.3209-T.A.2'' †</small><br/>|ANA=#[[Anárion]]<br/><small>''S.A.3219-S.A.3441'' †</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| |ARA| |CIR| |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| |ELE=[[Elendur (son of Isildur)| Elendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3299-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|ARA=[[Aratan]]<br/><small>''SA 3339-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|CIR=[[Ciryon]]<br/><small>''SA 3379-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|VAL=**[[Valandil (King of Arnor)|Valandil]]<br/><small>''SA 3430-TA 249''</small>|MEN=#[[Meneldil]]<br/><small>''SA 3318-TA 158''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |CEM| |ELD=**[[Eldacar (King of Arnor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''87-339''</small>|CEM=#[[Cemendur (King of Gondor)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3399-TA 238''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARA| | | | | | | | | | | | |EAR| |ARA=**[[Arantar]]<br/><small>''185-435''</small>|EAR=#[[Eärendil (King of Gondor)|Eärendil]]<br/><small>''TA 48-324''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| | | | | | | | | | | | |ANR| |TAR=**[[Tarcil]]<br/><small>''280-515''</small>|ANR=#[[Anardil (King of Gondor)|Anardil]]<br/><small>''136-411''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TRD| | | | | | | | | | | | |OST| |TRD=**[[Tarondor (King of Arnor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''372-602''</small>|OST=#[[Ostoher]]<br/><small>''222-492''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| |VAL=**[[Valandur]]<br/><small>''462-652'' †</small>|TAR=#Tarostar<br/>[[Rómendacil I]]<br/><small>''310-541'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |TUR| |ELD=**[[Elendur (King of Arnor)|Elendur]]<br/><small>''552-777''</small>|TUR=#[[Turambar (King of Gondor)|Turambar]]<br/><small>''397-667''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ERD| | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA| |ERD=**[[Eärendur (King of Arnor)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''640-861''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar I]]<br/><small>''480-748''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AML| |KOC| |KOR| | | | | | | | |SIR| |AML=*[[Amlaith]]<br/>of [[Fornost]]<br/><small>''726-946''</small>|KOC=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Cardolan]]|KOR=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Rhudaur]]|SIR=#[[Siriondil (King of Gondor)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''570-830''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |BEL| | | | | | | | | | |BER|~|FAL| |TCY|BEL=*[[Beleg (King of Arthedain)|Beleg]]<br/><small>''811-1029''</small>|BER=''[[Berúthiel]]''<br/>|FAL=#Tarannon<br/>[[Tarannon Falastur|Falastur]]<br/><small>''654-913''</small>|TCY=[[Tarciryan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERN|MAL=*[[Mallor]]<br/><small>''895-1110''</small>|ERN=#[[Eärnil I]]<br/><small>''736-936'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CEL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CEL=*[[Celepharn]]<br/><small>''979-1191''</small>|CIR=#[[Ciryandil]]<br/><small>''820-1015'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CLB| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HYA|CLB=*[[Celebrindor]]<br/><small>''1062-1272''</small>|HYA=#Ciryaher<br/>[[Hyarmendacil I]]<br/><small>''899-1149''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA|MVG=*[[Malvegil]]<br/><small>''1144-1349''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar II]]<br/>[[Alcarin]]<br/><small>''977-1226''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAR| |CMC|AGL=*[[Argeleb I]]<br/><small>''1226-1356'' †</small><br/>|NAR=#[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''1049-1294''</small>|CMC=#[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''1058-1304''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|-|-|.|}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VID| |MIN| | | |CLM| | |AVL=*[[Arveleg I]]<br/><small>''1309-1409'' †</small><br/>|VID=[[Vidugavia]]|MIN=#Minalcar<br/>[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''1126-1366''</small>|CLM=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |:|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VUM|y|VLC| | | | |:|APH=*[[Araphor]]<br/><small>''1391-1589''</small>|VUM=''[[Vidumavi]]''<br/>d. 1332|VLC=#[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''1194-1432''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | |CAS| | |AGL=*[[Argeleb II]]<br/><small>''1473-1670''</small>|ELD=#Vinitharya<br/>[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''1255-1490''</small><br/>|CAS=#[[Castamir]]<br/>the Usurper<br/><small>''1259-1447''</small> †<br/></small> }}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ORN| |ALD| | | |SNS| | |AVG=*[[Arvegil]]<br/><small>''1553-1743''</small>|ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/>''d. 1437'' †</small><br/>|ALD=#[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''1330-1540'' †</small><br/>|SNS=Sons<br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VYR| | | | |:| | | ||ARG=*[[Arveleg II]]<br/><small>''1633-1813''</small>|VYR=#Vinyarion<br/>[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''1391-1621''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |F|~|A|~|7| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |MND| |ANG| |SAN|AVL=*[[Araval]]<br/><small>''1711-1891''</small>|MND=#[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''1454-1634'' †</small><br/>|ANG=[[Angamaitë]]|SAN=[[Sangahyando]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APT| |OND| | | | | | | | | | | | |TLM| |MNS| |APT=*[[Araphant]]<br/><small>''1789-1964''</small>|OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/>of Gondor|TLM=#[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''1516-1636'' †</small><br/>|MNS=[[Minastan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARI|y|FIR| | | | | | | | | | | | |CHL| |TRD|ARI=*[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''1864-1975'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896''</small>|CHL=Children<br/>''d. 1636'' †</small>|TRD=#[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''1577-1798''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |]|~|~|~|7| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARN| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |TUT| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARN=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''1938-2106''</small>|TUT=#[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br/>Umbardacil<br/><small>''1632-1850''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NMC| | | | | | | |ARC| |AHL=[[Arahael]]<br/><small>''2012-2177''</small>|NMC=#[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''1684-1856'' †</small><br/>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ANR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CET| | | | | | | |CCL| |ANR=[[Aranuir]]<br/><small>''2084-2247''</small>|CET=#[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''1736-1936''</small>|CCL=[[Calimmacil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OND| | | |DTR| |SIR| |AVR=[[Aravir]]<br/><small>''2156-2319''</small>|OND=#[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''1787-1944'' †</small><br/>|DTR=''Daughter''|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | ||,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | | | | | | |ART| |FAR| |FIR| | | |MNT| |ERL| | |AGN=[[Aragorn I]]<br/><small>''2227-2327'' †</small><br/>|ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896'' †</small>|MNT=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|ERL=#[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''1883-2043''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERR| |AGL=[[Araglas]]<br/><small>''2296-2455''</small>|ERR=#[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''1928-2050'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHD| | |:| | | | | |AHD=[[Arahad I]]<br/><small>''2365-2523''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGT| | |:| | | | | |AGT=[[Aragost]]<br/><small>''2431-2588''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVN| | |:| | | | | |AVN=[[Aravorn]]<br/><small>''2497-2654''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARH| | |:| | | | | |ARH=[[Arahad II]]<br/><small>''2563-2719''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ASS| | |:| | | | | |ASS=[[Arassuil]]<br/><small>''2628-2784''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH| | |:| | | | | |ATH=[[Arathorn I]]<br/><small>''2693-2848'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | |GIL|AGN=[[Argonui]]<br/><small>''2757-2912''</small>|GIL=[[Gilbarad]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ADR| |DIR|y|IVO|ADR=[[Arador]]<br/><small>''2820-2930'' †</small><br/>|DIR=[[Dírhael]]<br/>|IVO=''[[Ivorwen]]''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH|~|y|~|GIL| | |ATH=[[Arathorn II]]<br/><small>''2873-2933'' †</small><br/>|GIL=''[[Gilraen]]''<br/><small>''2907-3007''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |AGN|y|ARW| |AGN=***[[Aragorn|Aragorn II]]<br/>King Elessar<br/><small>''2931-FoA 120''</small>|ARW=''[[Arwen]]''<br/><small>''TA 241-FoA 121''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| |DTS| |ELD=***[[Eldarion]]<small><br>''FoA 1-220''</br></small>|DTS=''Daughters''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-colour:white;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| | | | |MEN=''Hundred generations <br> of men''</br>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
[[Category:House of Telcontar]]<br />
<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 2px solid black; padding: 3px; background: pink;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUR=* [[Durin|Durin I]]<br/>the Deathless<br/><small>''[[Years of the Trees|Y.T.]]''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUI=* [[Durin II]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUN=* [[Durin III]]<br/><small>''c. {{SA|1500}}''</small><br/>}} <br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DRI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DRI=* [[Durin IV]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DRN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DRN=* [[Durin V]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DIN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DIN=* [[Durin VI]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1731}}-{{TA|1980|n}}'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |NAI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAI=* [[Náin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1832|n}}-{{TA|1981|n}}'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |THR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |THR=* [[Thráin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1934|n}}-{{TA|2190|n}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |THO| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |THO=* [[Thorin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2035|n}}-{{TA|2289|n}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |GLO| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |GLO=* [[Glóin (King of Durin's Folk)|Glóin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2136|n}}-{{TA|2385|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |OIN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OIN=* [[Óin (King of Durin's Folk)|Óin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2238|n}}-{{TA|2488|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |NAN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAN=* [[Náin II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2338|n}}-{{TA|2585|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DAI| | | | | | | |BOR| | | | | | |DAI=* [[Dáin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2440|n}}-{{TA|2589|n}}'' †</small><br/>|BOR=[[Borin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2450|n}}-{{TA|2711|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |THR| |FRO| |GRO| | | | | | | |FAR| | | | | | |THR=* [[Thrór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2542|n}}-{{TA|2790|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FRO=[[Frór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2552|n}}-{{TA|2589|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GRO=[[Grór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2563|n}}-{{TA|2805|n}}''</small>|FAR=[[Farin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2560|n}}-{{TA|2803|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | |,|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |THN| | | | | |NIN| | | |FUN| | | | | |GRN| | |THN=* [[Thráin|Thráin II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2644|n}}-{{TA|2850|n}}'' †</small><br/>|NIN=[[Náin (son of Grór)|Náin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2665|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FUN=[[Fundin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2662|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GRN=[[Gróin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2671|n}}-{{TA|2923|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|TOS| |FRE| |DIS| |DIF| |BAL| |DWA| |OIN| |GLO|TOS=* [[Thorin|Thorin II Oakenshield]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2746|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FRE=[[Frerin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2751|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|DIS=[[Dís]]<br/><small>''born {{TA|2760|n}}''</small>|DIF=* [[Dáin Ironfoot|Dáin II Ironfoot]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2767|n}}-{{TA|3019|n}}'' †</small><br/>|BAL=[[Balin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2763|n}}-{{TA|2994|n}}'' †</small><br/>|DWA=[[Dwalin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2772|n}}-{{FoA|91}}''</small>|OIN=[[Óin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2774|n}}-{{TA|2994|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GLO=[[Glóin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2783|n}}-{{FoA|15}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |FIL| |KIL| |TSH| | | | | | | | | | | | | |GEF|FIL=[[Fíli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2859|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>| KIL=[[Kíli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2864|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>|TSH=* [[Thorin Stonehelm| Thorin III Stonehelm]]<br/><small>''born {{TA|2866|n}}''</small>|GEF=[[Gimli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2879|n}}-{{FoA|120}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DAL=* [[Durin VII]] and Last<br/><small>''[[Fourth Age]]''</small><br>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div></div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&diff=380954User talk:Hyarion2023-10-04T04:39:26Z<p>Shivam: /* Regarding The Atlas of Middle Earth */ Reply</p>
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<div>{| style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background-color: #f9f9f9; color: black; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 1em; padding: 0.2em; float: right; clear: right;"<br />
|-<br />
!align="center"|[[Image:archive.png|50px|Archive]]<br>Archives<br />
----<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 3|2007]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 4|2008]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 5|2009]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 6|2010]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 7|2011]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 8|2012]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 9|2013]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 10|2014]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 11|2015]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 12|2016]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 13|2017]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 14|2018]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 15|2019]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 16|2020]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 17|2021]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 18|2022]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 19|2023]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
|}<br />
{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
== Just a doubt ==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion<br><br />
I had a simple doubt<br><br />
Can we copy an entire page created by someone else and just put our name on it?<br><br />
I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but i have to clear this.<br><br />
Thanks.<br><br />
--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 03:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Shivam! I'm not sure the context of your question, if you're referring to copying a page from Tolkien Gateway, or to Tolkien Gateway, but either way the answer would be a definite no. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I mean say you created a page on Tolkien Gateway and I copied it entirely and put my name on it and shared it's link on my user page.(Just an example, I won't do such thing). --[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:00, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::No, that sounds a bit unethical. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Well something like that has happened to me. Although i haven't created many pages, actually just one, so someone copied it entirely and put their name on it. Is there anything i should do?.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Can you provide more context? Thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 12:32, 15 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I solved it, thanks.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Concerning article cleanup ==<br />
<br />
Hi! I've been cleaning up some articles lately that have had headings like "Plot" or "Synopsis." Should I be putting these as sub-headings under a "History" heading?<br />
[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 00:34, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Brandon! It's so great to have you on the team! Great question, if we use [[Hordes of the Things]] as an example, I think the "History" section could likely be eliminated. Pretty much everything about the subject will be considered "history", so the heading, at least to me, seems a little redundant. What are your thoughts though? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:03, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think that there needs to be a heading over the sub-headings, and that ''could'' be "History," but it could be something else. I, personally, think that "History" works just fine, as it ''does'' all realate to history, but what do you think? There ''could'' be just sub-headings, but that might look weird... --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 01:45, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah yes, I agree about sub-headings needing a heading. I meant I would be okay with those sub-headings being converted to headings. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 02:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I agree. I think it ''would'' be fine, but in the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] it shows that only the following headings can be used: '''History, Legacy, Etymology, Other names, Genealogy, Other versions of the legendarium, Inspiration, Portrayal in adaptations, See also, Notes, External links, References,''' and '''Further reading.''' The manual of style could be updated, we could come up with another heading that can be used in all of these situations so there's a ''general way of doing it'', or we could just convert those to regular headings. What's your opinion? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 02:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Hm, I think the Manual of Style just says "typically", so it's not an absolute requirement (if you see phrasing that's more strict, definitely let me know). Those headings are primarily intended for in-universe characters, locations, etc. so it's perfectly fine if ''Hordes of the Things'' deviates from that. It's difficult to list all the possible top-level headings, so I usually will check some articles on similar subjects to see what the consensus seems to be and go from there. I agree though, expanding the policy so everyone doesn't have to wing it isn't a bad idea, I just want to avoid having a policy that is 1,000 pages long :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I think that it's a good idea to add a few new heading options to the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]. I'm not sure if it's possible but, because I'm working on cleaning up a big portion of the articles, I could add new heading "defaults" to the Manual of Style as needed. That is, if I'm able to get editing permission. Obviously, I wouldn't abuse this power. There are definitely a lot of possibilities for this, but I would just add the "primary" ones. i.e. Plot, Production, Bibliography, and any other main ones I come upon. I definitely agree that we shouldn't have a 1,000 page long policy, though! :D Is this possible? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 03:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lorenzo's user talk==<br />
I have seen that you deleted the new LorenzoCB talk page, I need that page to communicate with him. Excessive Vandalism made him protect that page, so only admins can edit it. I'm not an admin, and neither are three quarters of the people on TG, and when we need to contact him we would not be able to. That is why I made that page and would like to keep it so we Gatekeepers can contact him--[[User:Tformer|Tformer]] ([[User talk:Tformer|talk]]) 19:23, 17 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Few Doubts ==<br />
<br />
Do we have the right to use soundtracks of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings series?<br><br />
What is the sequence of layout of a page, I mean what's the correct order of writing History, Etymology, Genealogy, References, Other Versions, etc?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 07:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:Great questions! We don't have any kind of official approval for use of soundtracks, but depending on what the specific scenario is, we can usually use something in a limited capacity under the [https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/ fair use doctrine]. I would say the [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style#Article_layout]] looks to be pretty accurate. We usually have the references at the bottom. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 13:40, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::Great, thanks a lot.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 13:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Testing Notification System ==<br />
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Hi [[User:LorenzoCB]], this is just a test. I have configured the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Echo Echo Extension] for MediaWiki, which adds a notification bell in the top right. In theory if I link your username and add my signature to this message you should get a notification. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 05:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:Roget that. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] ([[User talk:LorenzoCB|talk]]) 09:26, 27 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Regarding The Atlas of Middle Earth ==<br />
<br />
Can we upload maps and depictions from The Atlas of Middle Earth? [[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 12:59, 21 June 2023 (UTC)<br />
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?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 13:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:No, we don't have the permission to use them. I think we have a couple of those maps but we better keep them as exceptions. What do you need? [[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] ([[User talk:LorenzoCB|talk]]) 13:57, 3 July 2023 (UTC)<br />
::The one showing the Circles of the World in the Foreword before the Introduction. [[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 04:39, 4 October 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Shivam&diff=379325User:Shivam2023-08-22T14:37:56Z<p>Shivam: </p>
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<div>{{user infobox| image=[[File:The_Rings_of_Power_(TV_series)_-_Durin's_Bane.png|300px]]<br />
|name=Shivam| language=[[Wikipedia:Hindi|Hindi]] <br>[[Wikipedia:English|English]]<br><br />
[[Khuzdul]] (in process)| location=[[Wikipedia:India|India]]| birth=[[28 February]], [[2005]]| age=18| gender=Male| height=5'7"(173 cm) | hair=Black| eyes=Black| Talk Page=[[User talk:Shivam|Talk to me here]]| email=chieftainofthedunedain.bgp@gmail.com<br />
| userboxes=<br />
{{User India}}<br><br />
{{user 2y}}<br><br />
{{user 500e}}<br><br />
{{user numenor}}<br><br />
{{user rohan}}<br><br />
{{User dunedain north}}<br><br />
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}}<br />
<center><dl><dd><b><br />
<i>"Ho! Ho! Ho! To the bottle I go<br><br />
To heal my heart and drown my woe.<br><br />
Rain may fall and wind may blow,<br><br />
And many miles be still to go<br><br />
But under a tall tree I will lie,<br><br />
And let the clouds go sailing by."<br />
<br></i><br />
</b></dd></dl></center><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="50%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="Who am I?"></span><b>Who am I?</b></h3><p><b>I</b> am a fan and admirer of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s works. </p>I have been using [[Tolkien Gateway]] for about a year and became a member on [[5 April]] , [[2021]]. I have a special interest in [[The Lord of the Rings]] and [[The Hobbit]] books.<br><br />
<br />
I was introduced to [[Legendarium|Tolkien's Legendarium]] when I was about nine or ten years old and like many others it was through [[Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson's]] [[The Lord of the Rings (film_series)|LOTR trilogy]] but it was not until [[2018]] when I started gaining information about it.<br><br />
<br />
I was intruigued by the genealogies given in the Lord of the Rings book. After that I sort of memorised the whole family tree of [[Elros|Elros]] (because I find the [[Númenóreans|Númenóreans]] very relatable). It was just the beginning, I ended up studying [[House of Hurin]], [[House of Durin]] and many more.<br><br />
<br />
If anyone has any ideas or work related to genealogies please let me know.<br><br></td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My Work"><b>My Work</b></span></h3><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|My Edits]] <br><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|My contributions]] <br><br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My views on few things"><b>My views on few things</b></span></h3><br />
{| style="margin:0 auto;" class="mw-collapsed mw-collapsible toccolours" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
! align=center | Enter my mind<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very interesting that if we see [[Eldarion]]'s bloodline, he is destined to be king of Middle-Earth (apart from Dwarven realms) -<br />
|-<br />
| He inherits Mannish lands from his father-Aragorn.<br />
|-<br />
| And Elvish lands from his mother-Arwen.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •How great The Great Armament would have been that even the [[Valar]] didn't choose to fight rather they called upon [[Eru]].<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I think at the end of Third Age, the lifespan of the Dunedain was somewhat increased. The only examples we have are of Aragorn and Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Faramir lived upto the age of 120 which is longer than his ancestors (upto five generations). His last ancestor to pass hundred years was [[Belecthor II]] who was born about 231 years before the birth of Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Now, Aragorn lived for 210 years. This was longer than many of his ancestors. His last ancestor to live longer than him was Celepharn who was born 1952 years before him. Also the last of his line before him to pass 200 years was Malvegil, Celepharn's grandson. There are 26 generations between Celepharn and Aragorn - 11 Kings of Arthedain and 15 Chieftains of Dunedain.<br />
|-<br />
| But there are some contradicting ones too like the [[Princes of Dol Amroth]]. When Aragorn was born in TA 2931 [[Adrahil II]] was the Prince who was born in TA 2917, just 14 years before Aragorn. During Aragorn's life atleast five Princes lived and died which tells a lot.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •At the time of [[Downfall of Numenor]], Elendil had a better claim to kingship than [[Ar-Pharazon]] as there have been atleast two changes in the line of [[Kings of Numenor]] whereas in Elendil's family, the lordship passed from father to son in direct line.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very suspicious that after [[Pelendur]] chose Earnil II as King of Gondor, the position of Steward of Gondor became heriditary.<br><br />
|}<br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
"***" indicates [[King of Númenor]] or [[High King of the Dúnedain]]<br><br />
"**" indicates [[King of Arnor]]<br><br />
"*" indicates [[King of Arthedain]]<br><br />
"#" indicates [[King of Gondor]]<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; border: 2px solid black; padding: 3px; background: pink;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH=''[[House of Hador]]''<br/>|}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR=[[Elros]]<br/>***Tar-Minyatur<br/><small>''FA 531-SA 442''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VAR| |TIN| |MAN| |ATA| | | | | | | | | | |VAR=***[[Vardamir|Vardamir Nólimon]]<br/><small>''61-471''</small><br/>|TIN=''[[Tindómiel]]''|MAN=[[Manwendil]]|ATA=[[Atanalcar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |AMA| | | |VAR| | | |AUL| | | |NOL| | | | |AMA=***[[Tar-Amandil]]<br/><small>''192-603''</small>|VAR=''[[Vardilmë]]''<br/><small>''203''</small>|AUL=[[Aulendil (son of Vardamir)|Aulendil]]<br/><small>''213''</small>|NOL=[[Nolondil]]<br/><small>''222''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ELE| | | | | |VEA| |EAR| |MAI| |YAV| |ORO| |AXA|ELE=***[[Tar-Elendil]]<br/>[[Parmaitë]]<br/><small>''350-751''</small>|VEA=[[Vëantur]]|EAR=[[Eärendur (son of Tar-Amandil)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''361''</small>|MAI=''[[Mairen]]''<br/><small>''377''</small>|YAV=''[[Yávien]]''<br/><small>''371''</small>|ORO=[[Oromendil]]<br/><small>''382''</small>|AXA=[[Axantur]]<br/><small>''395''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |`|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space: nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELA|y|SIL| |ISI| |MEN|y|ALM| | | | | |CAL| |LIN| |ARD| |CEM|ELA=[[Elatan]]<BR/>of [[Andúnië]]|SIL=''[[Silmarien]]''<br/><small>''521''</small><br/>|ISI=''[[Isilmë]]''<br/><small>''532''</small>|MEN=[[Írimon]]<br/>***[[Tar-Meneldur]]<br/><small>''543-942''</small>|ALM=''[[Almarian]]''|CAL=[[Caliondo]]<br/><small>''512-900''</small>|LIN=''[[Lindissë]]''<br/><small>''551''</small>|ARD=[[Ardamir (son of Axantur)|Ardamir]]<br/><small>''562''</small>|CEM=[[Cemendur (son of Axantur)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''575''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|'| |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|VAL| |ANA|y|ERE| |AIL|y|ORC| |ALM| |MAL| | | | | |IRI| |HAL|VAL=[[Valandil (Lord of Andúnië)|Valandil]], First<br/>[[Lord of Andúnië]]|ANA=Anardil<br/>***[[Tar-Aldarion]]<br/><small>''700-1098''</small><br/>|ERE=''[[Erendis]]''<br/><small>''771-985'' †</small></small><br/>|AIL=''[[Ailinel]]''<br/><small>''712''</small>|ORC=[[Orchaldor]]|ALM=''[[Almiel]]''<br/><small>''729''</small>|MAL=[[Malantur]]<br/><small>''670''</small>|IRI=''[[Írildë]]''<br/><small>''700''</small>|HAL=[[Hallatan]] of<br/>[[Hyarastorni]]<br/><small>''711''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | |ANC| | | | | |SOR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NES| |HAL|ANC=***''[[Tar-Ancalimë]]''<br/><small>''873-1285''</small>|SOR=[[Soronto]]<br/><small>''799''</small>|NES=''[[Nessanië]]''<br/><small>''840''</small>|HAL=[[Hallacar]]<br/><small>''852-1211''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |L|~|~|~|~|~|y|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|J| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ERY| | | | | | | | | |ANA|ERY=Earlier lords<br/>of Andúnië|ANA=***[[Tar-Anárion]]<br/><small>''1003-1404''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |OLD| |SIS| |SUR|OLD=''Older Sister''| SIS=''Older Sister''|SUR=***[[Tar-Súrion]]<br/><small>''1174-1574''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |TEL| |ISI|TEL=***''[[Tar-Telperiën]]''<br/><small>''1320-1731''</small><br/><br/>|ISI=[[Isilmo]]}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |MIN|MIN=***[[Tar-Minastir]]<br/><small>''1474-1873''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CIR=***[[Tar-Ciryatan]]<br/><small>''1634-2035''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |ATN|ATN=***[[Tar-Atanamir]]<br/>the Great<br/><small>''1800-2221''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |F|~|~|~|[| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | |:| | |ANC|ANC=***[[Tar-Ancalimon]]<br/><small>''1986-2386''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | |:| | |TEL|TEL=***[[Tar-Telemmaitë]]<br/><small>''2136-2526''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |HER|y|VAN|HER=[[Herucalmo]]<br/>[[Tar-Anducal]]<br/><small>''2286-2657''</small><br/>|VAN=***''[[Tar-Vanimeldë]]''<br/><small>''2277-2637''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |ALC| | |ALC=***[[Tar-Alcarin]]<br/><small>''2406-2737''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |CAL| | |CAL=***[[Tar-Calmacil]]<br/>(Ar-Belzagar)<br/><small>''2516-2825''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |F|~|v|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ARD| |GIM|ARD=***[[Tar-Ardamin]]<br/>(Ar-Avattârik)<br/><small>''2618-2899''</small>|GIM=[[Gimilzagar]]<br/><small>''2630''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ADU| | | | |ADU=***[[Ar-Adûnakhôr]]<br/>(Tar-Herunúmen)<br/><small>''2709-2962''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ZIM| | | | |ZIM=***[[Ar-Zimrathôn]]<br/>(Tar-Hostamir) )<br/><small>''2798-3033''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |D|~|~|~|7| |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|EAR| |LIN|:|SAK| | | | |EAR=[[Eärendur (Lord of Andúnië)|Eärendur]]<br/>Fifteenth Lord<br/>of Andúnië|LIN=''[[Lindórië]] ''|SAK=***[[Ar-Sakalthôr]]<br/>(Tar-Falassion)<br/><small>''2876-3102''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |]|~|J| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |INZ|y|GIM| | | | |INZ=''[[Inzilbêth]] ''|GIM=***[[Ar-Gimilzôr]]<br/>(Tar-Telemnar)<br/><small>''2960-3177''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|NUM| |PAL| |GMK| | | | |NUM=[[Númendil]]|PAL=***[[Tar-Palantir]]<br/>(Ar-Inziladûn)<br/><small>''3035-3255''</small>|GMK=[[Gimilkhâd]]<br/><small>''3044-3243''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|AMA| |MIR|~|PHA|AMA=[[Amandil]]<br/>Last Lord</br/>of Andúnië<br/>|MIR=''[[Tar-Míriel]]''<br/>''(Ar-Zimraphel) ''<br/><small>''3117-3319'' †</small><br/>|PHA=***[[Ar-Pharazôn]]<br/>(Tar-Calion)<br/><small>''3118-3319'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELE=***[[Elendil]]<br/><small>''3119-3441'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ISI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ANA|ISI=***[[Isildur]]<br/><small>''S.A.3209-T.A.2'' †</small><br/>|ANA=#[[Anárion]]<br/><small>''S.A.3219-S.A.3441'' †</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| |ARA| |CIR| |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| |ELE=[[Elendur (son of Isildur)| Elendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3299-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|ARA=[[Aratan]]<br/><small>''SA 3339-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|CIR=[[Ciryon]]<br/><small>''SA 3379-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|VAL=**[[Valandil (King of Arnor)|Valandil]]<br/><small>''SA 3430-TA 249''</small>|MEN=#[[Meneldil]]<br/><small>''SA 3318-TA 158''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |CEM| |ELD=**[[Eldacar (King of Arnor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''87-339''</small>|CEM=#[[Cemendur (King of Gondor)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3399-TA 238''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARA| | | | | | | | | | | | |EAR| |ARA=**[[Arantar]]<br/><small>''185-435''</small>|EAR=#[[Eärendil (King of Gondor)|Eärendil]]<br/><small>''TA 48-324''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| | | | | | | | | | | | |ANR| |TAR=**[[Tarcil]]<br/><small>''280-515''</small>|ANR=#[[Anardil (King of Gondor)|Anardil]]<br/><small>''136-411''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TRD| | | | | | | | | | | | |OST| |TRD=**[[Tarondor (King of Arnor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''372-602''</small>|OST=#[[Ostoher]]<br/><small>''222-492''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| |VAL=**[[Valandur]]<br/><small>''462-652'' †</small>|TAR=#Tarostar<br/>[[Rómendacil I]]<br/><small>''310-541'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |TUR| |ELD=**[[Elendur (King of Arnor)|Elendur]]<br/><small>''552-777''</small>|TUR=#[[Turambar (King of Gondor)|Turambar]]<br/><small>''397-667''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ERD| | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA| |ERD=**[[Eärendur (King of Arnor)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''640-861''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar I]]<br/><small>''480-748''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AML| |KOC| |KOR| | | | | | | | |SIR| |AML=*[[Amlaith]]<br/>of [[Fornost]]<br/><small>''726-946''</small>|KOC=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Cardolan]]|KOR=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Rhudaur]]|SIR=#[[Siriondil (King of Gondor)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''570-830''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |BEL| | | | | | | | | | |BER|~|FAL| |TCY|BEL=*[[Beleg (King of Arthedain)|Beleg]]<br/><small>''811-1029''</small>|BER=''[[Berúthiel]]''<br/>|FAL=#Tarannon<br/>[[Tarannon Falastur|Falastur]]<br/><small>''654-913''</small>|TCY=[[Tarciryan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERN|MAL=*[[Mallor]]<br/><small>''895-1110''</small>|ERN=#[[Eärnil I]]<br/><small>''736-936'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CEL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CEL=*[[Celepharn]]<br/><small>''979-1191''</small>|CIR=#[[Ciryandil]]<br/><small>''820-1015'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CLB| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HYA|CLB=*[[Celebrindor]]<br/><small>''1062-1272''</small>|HYA=#Ciryaher<br/>[[Hyarmendacil I]]<br/><small>''899-1149''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA|MVG=*[[Malvegil]]<br/><small>''1144-1349''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar II]]<br/>[[Alcarin]]<br/><small>''977-1226''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAR| |CMC|AGL=*[[Argeleb I]]<br/><small>''1226-1356'' †</small><br/>|NAR=#[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''1049-1294''</small>|CMC=#[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''1058-1304''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|-|-|.|}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VID| |MIN| | | |CLM| | |AVL=*[[Arveleg I]]<br/><small>''1309-1409'' †</small><br/>|VID=[[Vidugavia]]|MIN=#Minalcar<br/>[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''1126-1366''</small>|CLM=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |:|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VUM|y|VLC| | | | |:|APH=*[[Araphor]]<br/><small>''1391-1589''</small>|VUM=''[[Vidumavi]]''<br/>d. 1332|VLC=#[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''1194-1432''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | |CAS| | |AGL=*[[Argeleb II]]<br/><small>''1473-1670''</small>|ELD=#Vinitharya<br/>[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''1255-1490''</small><br/>|CAS=#[[Castamir]]<br/>the Usurper<br/><small>''1259-1447''</small> †<br/></small> }}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ORN| |ALD| | | |SNS| | |AVG=*[[Arvegil]]<br/><small>''1553-1743''</small>|ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/>''d. 1437'' †</small><br/>|ALD=#[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''1330-1540'' †</small><br/>|SNS=Sons<br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VYR| | | | |:| | | ||ARG=*[[Arveleg II]]<br/><small>''1633-1813''</small>|VYR=#Vinyarion<br/>[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''1391-1621''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |F|~|A|~|7| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |MND| |ANG| |SAN|AVL=*[[Araval]]<br/><small>''1711-1891''</small>|MND=#[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''1454-1634'' †</small><br/>|ANG=[[Angamaitë]]|SAN=[[Sangahyando]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APT| |OND| | | | | | | | | | | | |TLM| |MNS| |APT=*[[Araphant]]<br/><small>''1789-1964''</small>|OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/>of Gondor|TLM=#[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''1516-1636'' †</small><br/>|MNS=[[Minastan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARI|y|FIR| | | | | | | | | | | | |CHL| |TRD|ARI=*[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''1864-1975'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896''</small>|CHL=Children<br/>''d. 1636'' †</small>|TRD=#[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''1577-1798''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |]|~|~|~|7| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARN| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |TUT| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARN=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''1938-2106''</small>|TUT=#[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br/>Umbardacil<br/><small>''1632-1850''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NMC| | | | | | | |ARC| |AHL=[[Arahael]]<br/><small>''2012-2177''</small>|NMC=#[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''1684-1856'' †</small><br/>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ANR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CET| | | | | | | |CCL| |ANR=[[Aranuir]]<br/><small>''2084-2247''</small>|CET=#[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''1736-1936''</small>|CCL=[[Calimmacil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OND| | | |DTR| |SIR| |AVR=[[Aravir]]<br/><small>''2156-2319''</small>|OND=#[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''1787-1944'' †</small><br/>|DTR=''Daughter''|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | ||,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | | | | | | |ART| |FAR| |FIR| | | |MNT| |ERL| | |AGN=[[Aragorn I]]<br/><small>''2227-2327'' †</small><br/>|ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896'' †</small>|MNT=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|ERL=#[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''1883-2043''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERR| |AGL=[[Araglas]]<br/><small>''2296-2455''</small>|ERR=#[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''1928-2050'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHD| | |:| | | | | |AHD=[[Arahad I]]<br/><small>''2365-2523''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGT| | |:| | | | | |AGT=[[Aragost]]<br/><small>''2431-2588''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVN| | |:| | | | | |AVN=[[Aravorn]]<br/><small>''2497-2654''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARH| | |:| | | | | |ARH=[[Arahad II]]<br/><small>''2563-2719''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ASS| | |:| | | | | |ASS=[[Arassuil]]<br/><small>''2628-2784''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH| | |:| | | | | |ATH=[[Arathorn I]]<br/><small>''2693-2848'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | |GIL|AGN=[[Argonui]]<br/><small>''2757-2912''</small>|GIL=[[Gilbarad]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ADR| |DIR|y|IVO|ADR=[[Arador]]<br/><small>''2820-2930'' †</small><br/>|DIR=[[Dírhael]]<br/>|IVO=''[[Ivorwen]]''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH|~|y|~|GIL| | |ATH=[[Arathorn II]]<br/><small>''2873-2933'' †</small><br/>|GIL=''[[Gilraen]]''<br/><small>''2907-3007''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |AGN|y|ARW| |AGN=***[[Aragorn|Aragorn II]]<br/>King Elessar<br/><small>''2931-FoA 120''</small>|ARW=''[[Arwen]]''<br/><small>''TA 241-FoA 121''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| |DTS| |ELD=***[[Eldarion]]<small><br>''FoA 1-220''</br></small>|DTS=''Daughters''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-colour:white;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| | | | |MEN=''Hundred generations <br> of men''</br>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
[[Category:House of Telcontar]]<br />
<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 2px solid black; padding: 3px; background: pink;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUR=* [[Durin|Durin I]]<br/>the Deathless<br/><small>''[[Years of the Trees|Y.T.]]''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUI=* [[Durin II]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUN=* [[Durin III]]<br/><small>''c. {{SA|1500}}''</small><br/>}} <br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DRI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DRI=* [[Durin IV]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DRN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DRN=* [[Durin V]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DIN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DIN=* [[Durin VI]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1731}}-{{TA|1980|n}}'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |NAI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAI=* [[Náin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1832|n}}-{{TA|1981|n}}'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |THR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |THR=* [[Thráin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1934|n}}-{{TA|2190|n}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |THO| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |THO=* [[Thorin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2035|n}}-{{TA|2289|n}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |GLO| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |GLO=* [[Glóin (King of Durin's Folk)|Glóin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2136|n}}-{{TA|2385|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |OIN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OIN=* [[Óin (King of Durin's Folk)|Óin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2238|n}}-{{TA|2488|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |NAN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAN=* [[Náin II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2338|n}}-{{TA|2585|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DAI| | | | | | | |BOR| | | | | | |DAI=* [[Dáin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2440|n}}-{{TA|2589|n}}'' †</small><br/>|BOR=[[Borin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2450|n}}-{{TA|2711|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |THR| |FRO| |GRO| | | | | | | |FAR| | | | | | |THR=* [[Thrór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2542|n}}-{{TA|2790|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FRO=[[Frór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2552|n}}-{{TA|2589|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GRO=[[Grór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2563|n}}-{{TA|2805|n}}''</small>|FAR=[[Farin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2560|n}}-{{TA|2803|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | |,|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |THN| | | | | |NIN| | | |FUN| | | | | |GRN| | |THN=* [[Thráin|Thráin II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2644|n}}-{{TA|2850|n}}'' †</small><br/>|NIN=[[Náin (son of Grór)|Náin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2665|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FUN=[[Fundin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2662|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GRN=[[Gróin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2671|n}}-{{TA|2923|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|TOS| |FRE| |DIS| |DIF| |BAL| |DWA| |OIN| |GLO|TOS=* [[Thorin|Thorin II Oakenshield]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2746|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FRE=[[Frerin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2751|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|DIS=[[Dís]]<br/><small>''born {{TA|2760|n}}''</small>|DIF=* [[Dáin Ironfoot|Dáin II Ironfoot]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2767|n}}-{{TA|3019|n}}'' †</small><br/>|BAL=[[Balin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2763|n}}-{{TA|2994|n}}'' †</small><br/>|DWA=[[Dwalin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2772|n}}-{{FoA|91}}''</small>|OIN=[[Óin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2774|n}}-{{TA|2994|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GLO=[[Glóin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2783|n}}-{{FoA|15}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |FIL| |KIL| |TSH| | | | | | | | | | | | | |GEF|FIL=[[Fíli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2859|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>| KIL=[[Kíli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2864|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>|TSH=* [[Thorin Stonehelm| Thorin III Stonehelm]]<br/><small>''born {{TA|2866|n}}''</small>|GEF=[[Gimli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2879|n}}-{{FoA|120}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DAL=* [[Durin VII]] and Last<br/><small>''[[Fourth Age]]''</small><br>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div></div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&diff=376333User talk:Hyarion2023-07-03T13:46:47Z<p>Shivam: /* Regarding The Atlas of Middle Earth */</p>
<hr />
<div>{| style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background-color: #f9f9f9; color: black; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 1em; padding: 0.2em; float: right; clear: right;"<br />
|-<br />
!align="center"|[[Image:archive.png|50px|Archive]]<br>Archives<br />
----<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 3|2007]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 4|2008]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 5|2009]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 6|2010]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 7|2011]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 8|2012]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 9|2013]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 10|2014]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 11|2015]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 12|2016]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 13|2017]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 14|2018]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 15|2019]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 16|2020]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 17|2021]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 18|2022]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 19|2023]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
|}<br />
{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
== Just a doubt ==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion<br><br />
I had a simple doubt<br><br />
Can we copy an entire page created by someone else and just put our name on it?<br><br />
I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but i have to clear this.<br><br />
Thanks.<br><br />
--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 03:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Shivam! I'm not sure the context of your question, if you're referring to copying a page from Tolkien Gateway, or to Tolkien Gateway, but either way the answer would be a definite no. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I mean say you created a page on Tolkien Gateway and I copied it entirely and put my name on it and shared it's link on my user page.(Just an example, I won't do such thing). --[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:00, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::No, that sounds a bit unethical. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Well something like that has happened to me. Although i haven't created many pages, actually just one, so someone copied it entirely and put their name on it. Is there anything i should do?.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Can you provide more context? Thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 12:32, 15 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I solved it, thanks.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Concerning article cleanup ==<br />
<br />
Hi! I've been cleaning up some articles lately that have had headings like "Plot" or "Synopsis." Should I be putting these as sub-headings under a "History" heading?<br />
[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 00:34, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Brandon! It's so great to have you on the team! Great question, if we use [[Hordes of the Things]] as an example, I think the "History" section could likely be eliminated. Pretty much everything about the subject will be considered "history", so the heading, at least to me, seems a little redundant. What are your thoughts though? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:03, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think that there needs to be a heading over the sub-headings, and that ''could'' be "History," but it could be something else. I, personally, think that "History" works just fine, as it ''does'' all realate to history, but what do you think? There ''could'' be just sub-headings, but that might look weird... --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 01:45, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah yes, I agree about sub-headings needing a heading. I meant I would be okay with those sub-headings being converted to headings. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 02:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I agree. I think it ''would'' be fine, but in the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] it shows that only the following headings can be used: '''History, Legacy, Etymology, Other names, Genealogy, Other versions of the legendarium, Inspiration, Portrayal in adaptations, See also, Notes, External links, References,''' and '''Further reading.''' The manual of style could be updated, we could come up with another heading that can be used in all of these situations so there's a ''general way of doing it'', or we could just convert those to regular headings. What's your opinion? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 02:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Hm, I think the Manual of Style just says "typically", so it's not an absolute requirement (if you see phrasing that's more strict, definitely let me know). Those headings are primarily intended for in-universe characters, locations, etc. so it's perfectly fine if ''Hordes of the Things'' deviates from that. It's difficult to list all the possible top-level headings, so I usually will check some articles on similar subjects to see what the consensus seems to be and go from there. I agree though, expanding the policy so everyone doesn't have to wing it isn't a bad idea, I just want to avoid having a policy that is 1,000 pages long :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I think that it's a good idea to add a few new heading options to the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]. I'm not sure if it's possible but, because I'm working on cleaning up a big portion of the articles, I could add new heading "defaults" to the Manual of Style as needed. That is, if I'm able to get editing permission. Obviously, I wouldn't abuse this power. There are definitely a lot of possibilities for this, but I would just add the "primary" ones. i.e. Plot, Production, Bibliography, and any other main ones I come upon. I definitely agree that we shouldn't have a 1,000 page long policy, though! :D Is this possible? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 03:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lorenzo's user talk==<br />
I have seen that you deleted the new LorenzoCB talk page, I need that page to communicate with him. Excessive Vandalism made him protect that page, so only admins can edit it. I'm not an admin, and neither are three quarters of the people on TG, and when we need to contact him we would not be able to. That is why I made that page and would like to keep it so we Gatekeepers can contact him--[[User:Tformer|Tformer]] ([[User talk:Tformer|talk]]) 19:23, 17 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Few Doubts ==<br />
<br />
Do we have the right to use soundtracks of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings series?<br><br />
What is the sequence of layout of a page, I mean what's the correct order of writing History, Etymology, Genealogy, References, Other Versions, etc?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 07:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Great questions! We don't have any kind of official approval for use of soundtracks, but depending on what the specific scenario is, we can usually use something in a limited capacity under the [https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/ fair use doctrine]. I would say the [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style#Article_layout]] looks to be pretty accurate. We usually have the references at the bottom. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 13:40, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Great, thanks a lot.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 13:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Testing Notification System ==<br />
<br />
Hi [[User:LorenzoCB]], this is just a test. I have configured the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Echo Echo Extension] for MediaWiki, which adds a notification bell in the top right. In theory if I link your username and add my signature to this message you should get a notification. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 05:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Roget that. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] ([[User talk:LorenzoCB|talk]]) 09:26, 27 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding The Atlas of Middle Earth ==<br />
<br />
Can we upload maps and depictions from The Atlas of Middle Earth? [[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 12:59, 21 June 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 13:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&diff=375790User talk:Hyarion2023-06-21T12:59:34Z<p>Shivam: /* Regarding The Atlas of Middle Earth */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{| style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background-color: #f9f9f9; color: black; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 1em; padding: 0.2em; float: right; clear: right;"<br />
|-<br />
!align="center"|[[Image:archive.png|50px|Archive]]<br>Archives<br />
----<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 3|2007]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 4|2008]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 5|2009]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 6|2010]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 7|2011]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 8|2012]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 9|2013]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 10|2014]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 11|2015]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 12|2016]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 13|2017]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 14|2018]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 15|2019]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 16|2020]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 17|2021]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 18|2022]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 19|2023]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
|}<br />
{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
== Just a doubt ==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion<br><br />
I had a simple doubt<br><br />
Can we copy an entire page created by someone else and just put our name on it?<br><br />
I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but i have to clear this.<br><br />
Thanks.<br><br />
--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 03:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Shivam! I'm not sure the context of your question, if you're referring to copying a page from Tolkien Gateway, or to Tolkien Gateway, but either way the answer would be a definite no. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I mean say you created a page on Tolkien Gateway and I copied it entirely and put my name on it and shared it's link on my user page.(Just an example, I won't do such thing). --[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:00, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::No, that sounds a bit unethical. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Well something like that has happened to me. Although i haven't created many pages, actually just one, so someone copied it entirely and put their name on it. Is there anything i should do?.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Can you provide more context? Thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 12:32, 15 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I solved it, thanks.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Concerning article cleanup ==<br />
<br />
Hi! I've been cleaning up some articles lately that have had headings like "Plot" or "Synopsis." Should I be putting these as sub-headings under a "History" heading?<br />
[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 00:34, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Brandon! It's so great to have you on the team! Great question, if we use [[Hordes of the Things]] as an example, I think the "History" section could likely be eliminated. Pretty much everything about the subject will be considered "history", so the heading, at least to me, seems a little redundant. What are your thoughts though? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:03, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think that there needs to be a heading over the sub-headings, and that ''could'' be "History," but it could be something else. I, personally, think that "History" works just fine, as it ''does'' all realate to history, but what do you think? There ''could'' be just sub-headings, but that might look weird... --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 01:45, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah yes, I agree about sub-headings needing a heading. I meant I would be okay with those sub-headings being converted to headings. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 02:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I agree. I think it ''would'' be fine, but in the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] it shows that only the following headings can be used: '''History, Legacy, Etymology, Other names, Genealogy, Other versions of the legendarium, Inspiration, Portrayal in adaptations, See also, Notes, External links, References,''' and '''Further reading.''' The manual of style could be updated, we could come up with another heading that can be used in all of these situations so there's a ''general way of doing it'', or we could just convert those to regular headings. What's your opinion? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 02:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Hm, I think the Manual of Style just says "typically", so it's not an absolute requirement (if you see phrasing that's more strict, definitely let me know). Those headings are primarily intended for in-universe characters, locations, etc. so it's perfectly fine if ''Hordes of the Things'' deviates from that. It's difficult to list all the possible top-level headings, so I usually will check some articles on similar subjects to see what the consensus seems to be and go from there. I agree though, expanding the policy so everyone doesn't have to wing it isn't a bad idea, I just want to avoid having a policy that is 1,000 pages long :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I think that it's a good idea to add a few new heading options to the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]. I'm not sure if it's possible but, because I'm working on cleaning up a big portion of the articles, I could add new heading "defaults" to the Manual of Style as needed. That is, if I'm able to get editing permission. Obviously, I wouldn't abuse this power. There are definitely a lot of possibilities for this, but I would just add the "primary" ones. i.e. Plot, Production, Bibliography, and any other main ones I come upon. I definitely agree that we shouldn't have a 1,000 page long policy, though! :D Is this possible? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 03:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lorenzo's user talk==<br />
I have seen that you deleted the new LorenzoCB talk page, I need that page to communicate with him. Excessive Vandalism made him protect that page, so only admins can edit it. I'm not an admin, and neither are three quarters of the people on TG, and when we need to contact him we would not be able to. That is why I made that page and would like to keep it so we Gatekeepers can contact him--[[User:Tformer|Tformer]] ([[User talk:Tformer|talk]]) 19:23, 17 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Few Doubts ==<br />
<br />
Do we have the right to use soundtracks of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings series?<br><br />
What is the sequence of layout of a page, I mean what's the correct order of writing History, Etymology, Genealogy, References, Other Versions, etc?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 07:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Great questions! We don't have any kind of official approval for use of soundtracks, but depending on what the specific scenario is, we can usually use something in a limited capacity under the [https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/ fair use doctrine]. I would say the [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style#Article_layout]] looks to be pretty accurate. We usually have the references at the bottom. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 13:40, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Great, thanks a lot.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 13:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Testing Notification System ==<br />
<br />
Hi [[User:LorenzoCB]], this is just a test. I have configured the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Echo Echo Extension] for MediaWiki, which adds a notification bell in the top right. In theory if I link your username and add my signature to this message you should get a notification. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 05:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Roget that. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] ([[User talk:LorenzoCB|talk]]) 09:26, 27 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding The Atlas of Middle Earth ==<br />
<br />
Can we upload maps and depictions from The Atlas of Middle Earth? [[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 12:59, 21 June 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Shivam&diff=374956User:Shivam2023-06-08T14:41:12Z<p>Shivam: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=[[File:The_Rings_of_Power_(TV_series)_-_Durin's_Bane.png|300px]]<br />
|name=Shivam| language=[[Wikipedia:Hindi|Hindi]] <br>[[Wikipedia:English|English]]<br><br />
[[Khuzdul]] (in process)| location=[[Wikipedia:India|India]]| birth=[[25 August]], [[2004]]| age=18| gender=Male| height=5'7"(173 cm) | hair=Black| eyes=Black| Talk Page=[[User talk:Shivam|Talk to me here]]| email=chieftainofthedunedain.bgp@gmail.com<br />
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{{User India}}<br><br />
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<center><dl><dd><b><br />
<i>"Ho! Ho! Ho! To the bottle I go<br><br />
To heal my heart and drown my woe.<br><br />
Rain may fall and wind may blow,<br><br />
And many miles be still to go<br><br />
But under a tall tree I will lie,<br><br />
And let the clouds go sailing by."<br />
<br></i><br />
</b></dd></dl></center><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="50%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="Who am I?"></span><b>Who am I?</b></h3><p><b>I</b> am a fan and admirer of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s works. </p>I have been using [[Tolkien Gateway]] for about a year and became a member on [[5 April]] , [[2021]]. I have a special interest in [[The Lord of the Rings]] and [[The Hobbit]] books.<br><br />
<br />
I was introduced to [[Legendarium|Tolkien's Legendarium]] when I was about nine or ten years old and like many others it was through [[Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson's]] [[The Lord of the Rings (film_series)|LOTR trilogy]] but it was not until [[2018]] when I started gaining information about it.<br><br />
<br />
I was intruigued by the genealogies given in the Lord of the Rings book. After that I sort of memorised the whole family tree of [[Elros|Elros]] (because I find the [[Númenóreans|Númenóreans]] very relatable). It was just the beginning, I ended up studying [[House of Hurin]], [[House of Durin]] and many more.<br><br />
<br />
If anyone has any ideas or work related to genealogies please let me know.<br><br></td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My Work"><b>My Work</b></span></h3><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|My Edits]] <br><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|My contributions]] <br><br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My views on few things"><b>My views on few things</b></span></h3><br />
{| style="margin:0 auto;" class="mw-collapsed mw-collapsible toccolours" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
! align=center | Enter my mind<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very interesting that if we see [[Eldarion]]'s bloodline, he is destined to be king of Middle-Earth (apart from Dwarven realms) -<br />
|-<br />
| He inherits Mannish lands from his father-Aragorn.<br />
|-<br />
| And Elvish lands from his mother-Arwen.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •How great The Great Armament would have been that even the [[Valar]] didn't choose to fight rather they called upon [[Eru]].<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I think at the end of Third Age, the lifespan of the Dunedain was somewhat increased. The only examples we have are of Aragorn and Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Faramir lived upto the age of 120 which is longer than his ancestors (upto five generations). His last ancestor to pass hundred years was [[Belecthor II]] who was born about 231 years before the birth of Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Now, Aragorn lived for 210 years. This was longer than many of his ancestors. His last ancestor to live longer than him was Celepharn who was born 1952 years before him. Also the last of his line before him to pass 200 years was Malvegil, Celepharn's grandson. There are 26 generations between Celepharn and Aragorn - 11 Kings of Arthedain and 15 Chieftains of Dunedain.<br />
|-<br />
| But there are some contradicting ones too like the [[Princes of Dol Amroth]]. When Aragorn was born in TA 2931 [[Adrahil II]] was the Prince who was born in TA 2917, just 14 years before Aragorn. During Aragorn's life atleast five Princes lived and died which tells a lot.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •At the time of [[Downfall of Numenor]], Elendil had a better claim to kingship than [[Ar-Pharazon]] as there have been atleast two changes in the line of [[Kings of Numenor]] whereas in Elendil's family, the lordship passed from father to son in direct line.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very suspicious that after [[Pelendur]] chose Earnil II as King of Gondor, the position of Steward of Gondor became heriditary.<br><br />
|}<br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
"***" indicates [[King of Númenor]] or [[High King of the Dúnedain]]<br><br />
"**" indicates [[King of Arnor]]<br><br />
"*" indicates [[King of Arthedain]]<br><br />
"#" indicates [[King of Gondor]]<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; border: 2px solid black; padding: 3px; background: pink;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH=''[[House of Hador]]''<br/>|}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR=[[Elros]]<br/>***Tar-Minyatur<br/><small>''FA 531-SA 442''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VAR| |TIN| |MAN| |ATA| | | | | | | | | | |VAR=***[[Vardamir|Vardamir Nólimon]]<br/><small>''61-471''</small><br/>|TIN=''[[Tindómiel]]''|MAN=[[Manwendil]]|ATA=[[Atanalcar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |AMA| | | |VAR| | | |AUL| | | |NOL| | | | |AMA=***[[Tar-Amandil]]<br/><small>''192-603''</small>|VAR=''[[Vardilmë]]''<br/><small>''203''</small>|AUL=[[Aulendil (son of Vardamir)|Aulendil]]<br/><small>''213''</small>|NOL=[[Nolondil]]<br/><small>''222''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ELE| | | | | |VEA| |EAR| |MAI| |YAV| |ORO| |AXA|ELE=***[[Tar-Elendil]]<br/>[[Parmaitë]]<br/><small>''350-751''</small>|VEA=[[Vëantur]]|EAR=[[Eärendur (son of Tar-Amandil)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''361''</small>|MAI=''[[Mairen]]''<br/><small>''377''</small>|YAV=''[[Yávien]]''<br/><small>''371''</small>|ORO=[[Oromendil]]<br/><small>''382''</small>|AXA=[[Axantur]]<br/><small>''395''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |`|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space: nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELA|y|SIL| |ISI| |MEN|y|ALM| | | | | |CAL| |LIN| |ARD| |CEM|ELA=[[Elatan]]<BR/>of [[Andúnië]]|SIL=''[[Silmarien]]''<br/><small>''521''</small><br/>|ISI=''[[Isilmë]]''<br/><small>''532''</small>|MEN=[[Írimon]]<br/>***[[Tar-Meneldur]]<br/><small>''543-942''</small>|ALM=''[[Almarian]]''|CAL=[[Caliondo]]<br/><small>''512-900''</small>|LIN=''[[Lindissë]]''<br/><small>''551''</small>|ARD=[[Ardamir (son of Axantur)|Ardamir]]<br/><small>''562''</small>|CEM=[[Cemendur (son of Axantur)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''575''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|'| |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|VAL| |ANA|y|ERE| |AIL|y|ORC| |ALM| |MAL| | | | | |IRI| |HAL|VAL=[[Valandil (Lord of Andúnië)|Valandil]], First<br/>[[Lord of Andúnië]]|ANA=Anardil<br/>***[[Tar-Aldarion]]<br/><small>''700-1098''</small><br/>|ERE=''[[Erendis]]''<br/><small>''771-985'' †</small></small><br/>|AIL=''[[Ailinel]]''<br/><small>''712''</small>|ORC=[[Orchaldor]]|ALM=''[[Almiel]]''<br/><small>''729''</small>|MAL=[[Malantur]]<br/><small>''670''</small>|IRI=''[[Írildë]]''<br/><small>''700''</small>|HAL=[[Hallatan]] of<br/>[[Hyarastorni]]<br/><small>''711''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | |ANC| | | | | |SOR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NES| |HAL|ANC=***''[[Tar-Ancalimë]]''<br/><small>''873-1285''</small>|SOR=[[Soronto]]<br/><small>''799''</small>|NES=''[[Nessanië]]''<br/><small>''840''</small>|HAL=[[Hallacar]]<br/><small>''852-1211''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |L|~|~|~|~|~|y|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|J| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ERY| | | | | | | | | |ANA|ERY=Earlier lords<br/>of Andúnië|ANA=***[[Tar-Anárion]]<br/><small>''1003-1404''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |OLD| |SIS| |SUR|OLD=''Older Sister''| SIS=''Older Sister''|SUR=***[[Tar-Súrion]]<br/><small>''1174-1574''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |TEL| |ISI|TEL=***''[[Tar-Telperiën]]''<br/><small>''1320-1731''</small><br/><br/>|ISI=[[Isilmo]]}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |MIN|MIN=***[[Tar-Minastir]]<br/><small>''1474-1873''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CIR=***[[Tar-Ciryatan]]<br/><small>''1634-2035''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |ATN|ATN=***[[Tar-Atanamir]]<br/>the Great<br/><small>''1800-2221''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |F|~|~|~|[| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | |:| | |ANC|ANC=***[[Tar-Ancalimon]]<br/><small>''1986-2386''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | |:| | |TEL|TEL=***[[Tar-Telemmaitë]]<br/><small>''2136-2526''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |HER|y|VAN|HER=[[Herucalmo]]<br/>[[Tar-Anducal]]<br/><small>''2286-2657''</small><br/>|VAN=***''[[Tar-Vanimeldë]]''<br/><small>''2277-2637''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |ALC| | |ALC=***[[Tar-Alcarin]]<br/><small>''2406-2737''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |CAL| | |CAL=***[[Tar-Calmacil]]<br/>(Ar-Belzagar)<br/><small>''2516-2825''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |F|~|v|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ARD| |GIM|ARD=***[[Tar-Ardamin]]<br/>(Ar-Avattârik)<br/><small>''2618-2899''</small>|GIM=[[Gimilzagar]]<br/><small>''2630''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ADU| | | | |ADU=***[[Ar-Adûnakhôr]]<br/>(Tar-Herunúmen)<br/><small>''2709-2962''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ZIM| | | | |ZIM=***[[Ar-Zimrathôn]]<br/>(Tar-Hostamir) )<br/><small>''2798-3033''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |D|~|~|~|7| |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|EAR| |LIN|:|SAK| | | | |EAR=[[Eärendur (Lord of Andúnië)|Eärendur]]<br/>Fifteenth Lord<br/>of Andúnië|LIN=''[[Lindórië]] ''|SAK=***[[Ar-Sakalthôr]]<br/>(Tar-Falassion)<br/><small>''2876-3102''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |]|~|J| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |INZ|y|GIM| | | | |INZ=''[[Inzilbêth]] ''|GIM=***[[Ar-Gimilzôr]]<br/>(Tar-Telemnar)<br/><small>''2960-3177''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|NUM| |PAL| |GMK| | | | |NUM=[[Númendil]]|PAL=***[[Tar-Palantir]]<br/>(Ar-Inziladûn)<br/><small>''3035-3255''</small>|GMK=[[Gimilkhâd]]<br/><small>''3044-3243''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|AMA| |MIR|~|PHA|AMA=[[Amandil]]<br/>Last Lord</br/>of Andúnië<br/>|MIR=''[[Tar-Míriel]]''<br/>''(Ar-Zimraphel) ''<br/><small>''3117-3319'' †</small><br/>|PHA=***[[Ar-Pharazôn]]<br/>(Tar-Calion)<br/><small>''3118-3319'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELE=***[[Elendil]]<br/><small>''3119-3441'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ISI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ANA|ISI=***[[Isildur]]<br/><small>''S.A.3209-T.A.2'' †</small><br/>|ANA=#[[Anárion]]<br/><small>''S.A.3219-S.A.3441'' †</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| |ARA| |CIR| |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| |ELE=[[Elendur (son of Isildur)| Elendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3299-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|ARA=[[Aratan]]<br/><small>''SA 3339-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|CIR=[[Ciryon]]<br/><small>''SA 3379-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|VAL=**[[Valandil (King of Arnor)|Valandil]]<br/><small>''SA 3430-TA 249''</small>|MEN=#[[Meneldil]]<br/><small>''SA 3318-TA 158''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |CEM| |ELD=**[[Eldacar (King of Arnor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''87-339''</small>|CEM=#[[Cemendur (King of Gondor)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3399-TA 238''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARA| | | | | | | | | | | | |EAR| |ARA=**[[Arantar]]<br/><small>''185-435''</small>|EAR=#[[Eärendil (King of Gondor)|Eärendil]]<br/><small>''TA 48-324''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| | | | | | | | | | | | |ANR| |TAR=**[[Tarcil]]<br/><small>''280-515''</small>|ANR=#[[Anardil (King of Gondor)|Anardil]]<br/><small>''136-411''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TRD| | | | | | | | | | | | |OST| |TRD=**[[Tarondor (King of Arnor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''372-602''</small>|OST=#[[Ostoher]]<br/><small>''222-492''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| |VAL=**[[Valandur]]<br/><small>''462-652'' †</small>|TAR=#Tarostar<br/>[[Rómendacil I]]<br/><small>''310-541'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |TUR| |ELD=**[[Elendur (King of Arnor)|Elendur]]<br/><small>''552-777''</small>|TUR=#[[Turambar (King of Gondor)|Turambar]]<br/><small>''397-667''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ERD| | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA| |ERD=**[[Eärendur (King of Arnor)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''640-861''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar I]]<br/><small>''480-748''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AML| |KOC| |KOR| | | | | | | | |SIR| |AML=*[[Amlaith]]<br/>of [[Fornost]]<br/><small>''726-946''</small>|KOC=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Cardolan]]|KOR=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Rhudaur]]|SIR=#[[Siriondil (King of Gondor)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''570-830''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |BEL| | | | | | | | | | |BER|~|FAL| |TCY|BEL=*[[Beleg (King of Arthedain)|Beleg]]<br/><small>''811-1029''</small>|BER=''[[Berúthiel]]''<br/>|FAL=#Tarannon<br/>[[Tarannon Falastur|Falastur]]<br/><small>''654-913''</small>|TCY=[[Tarciryan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERN|MAL=*[[Mallor]]<br/><small>''895-1110''</small>|ERN=#[[Eärnil I]]<br/><small>''736-936'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CEL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CEL=*[[Celepharn]]<br/><small>''979-1191''</small>|CIR=#[[Ciryandil]]<br/><small>''820-1015'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CLB| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HYA|CLB=*[[Celebrindor]]<br/><small>''1062-1272''</small>|HYA=#Ciryaher<br/>[[Hyarmendacil I]]<br/><small>''899-1149''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA|MVG=*[[Malvegil]]<br/><small>''1144-1349''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar II]]<br/>[[Alcarin]]<br/><small>''977-1226''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAR| |CMC|AGL=*[[Argeleb I]]<br/><small>''1226-1356'' †</small><br/>|NAR=#[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''1049-1294''</small>|CMC=#[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''1058-1304''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|-|-|.|}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VID| |MIN| | | |CLM| | |AVL=*[[Arveleg I]]<br/><small>''1309-1409'' †</small><br/>|VID=[[Vidugavia]]|MIN=#Minalcar<br/>[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''1126-1366''</small>|CLM=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |:|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VUM|y|VLC| | | | |:|APH=*[[Araphor]]<br/><small>''1391-1589''</small>|VUM=''[[Vidumavi]]''<br/>d. 1332|VLC=#[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''1194-1432''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | |CAS| | |AGL=*[[Argeleb II]]<br/><small>''1473-1670''</small>|ELD=#Vinitharya<br/>[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''1255-1490''</small><br/>|CAS=#[[Castamir]]<br/>the Usurper<br/><small>''1259-1447''</small> †<br/></small> }}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ORN| |ALD| | | |SNS| | |AVG=*[[Arvegil]]<br/><small>''1553-1743''</small>|ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/>''d. 1437'' †</small><br/>|ALD=#[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''1330-1540'' †</small><br/>|SNS=Sons<br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VYR| | | | |:| | | ||ARG=*[[Arveleg II]]<br/><small>''1633-1813''</small>|VYR=#Vinyarion<br/>[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''1391-1621''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |F|~|A|~|7| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |MND| |ANG| |SAN|AVL=*[[Araval]]<br/><small>''1711-1891''</small>|MND=#[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''1454-1634'' †</small><br/>|ANG=[[Angamaitë]]|SAN=[[Sangahyando]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APT| |OND| | | | | | | | | | | | |TLM| |MNS| |APT=*[[Araphant]]<br/><small>''1789-1964''</small>|OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/>of Gondor|TLM=#[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''1516-1636'' †</small><br/>|MNS=[[Minastan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARI|y|FIR| | | | | | | | | | | | |CHL| |TRD|ARI=*[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''1864-1975'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896''</small>|CHL=Children<br/>''d. 1636'' †</small>|TRD=#[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''1577-1798''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |]|~|~|~|7| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARN| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |TUT| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARN=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''1938-2106''</small>|TUT=#[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br/>Umbardacil<br/><small>''1632-1850''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NMC| | | | | | | |ARC| |AHL=[[Arahael]]<br/><small>''2012-2177''</small>|NMC=#[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''1684-1856'' †</small><br/>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ANR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CET| | | | | | | |CCL| |ANR=[[Aranuir]]<br/><small>''2084-2247''</small>|CET=#[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''1736-1936''</small>|CCL=[[Calimmacil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OND| | | |DTR| |SIR| |AVR=[[Aravir]]<br/><small>''2156-2319''</small>|OND=#[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''1787-1944'' †</small><br/>|DTR=''Daughter''|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | ||,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | | | | | | |ART| |FAR| |FIR| | | |MNT| |ERL| | |AGN=[[Aragorn I]]<br/><small>''2227-2327'' †</small><br/>|ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896'' †</small>|MNT=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|ERL=#[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''1883-2043''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERR| |AGL=[[Araglas]]<br/><small>''2296-2455''</small>|ERR=#[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''1928-2050'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHD| | |:| | | | | |AHD=[[Arahad I]]<br/><small>''2365-2523''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGT| | |:| | | | | |AGT=[[Aragost]]<br/><small>''2431-2588''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVN| | |:| | | | | |AVN=[[Aravorn]]<br/><small>''2497-2654''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARH| | |:| | | | | |ARH=[[Arahad II]]<br/><small>''2563-2719''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ASS| | |:| | | | | |ASS=[[Arassuil]]<br/><small>''2628-2784''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH| | |:| | | | | |ATH=[[Arathorn I]]<br/><small>''2693-2848'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | |GIL|AGN=[[Argonui]]<br/><small>''2757-2912''</small>|GIL=[[Gilbarad]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ADR| |DIR|y|IVO|ADR=[[Arador]]<br/><small>''2820-2930'' †</small><br/>|DIR=[[Dírhael]]<br/>|IVO=''[[Ivorwen]]''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH|~|y|~|GIL| | |ATH=[[Arathorn II]]<br/><small>''2873-2933'' †</small><br/>|GIL=''[[Gilraen]]''<br/><small>''2907-3007''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |AGN|y|ARW| |AGN=***[[Aragorn|Aragorn II]]<br/>King Elessar<br/><small>''2931-FoA 120''</small>|ARW=''[[Arwen]]''<br/><small>''TA 241-FoA 121''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| |DTS| |ELD=***[[Eldarion]]<small><br>''FoA 1-220''</br></small>|DTS=''Daughters''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-colour:white;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| | | | |MEN=''Hundred generations <br> of men''</br>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
[[Category:House of Telcontar]]<br />
<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 2px solid black; padding: 3px; background: pink;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUR=* [[Durin|Durin I]]<br/>the Deathless<br/><small>''[[Years of the Trees|Y.T.]]''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUI=* [[Durin II]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DUN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DUN=* [[Durin III]]<br/><small>''c. {{SA|1500}}''</small><br/>}} <br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DRI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DRI=* [[Durin IV]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DRN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DRN=* [[Durin V]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DIN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DIN=* [[Durin VI]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1731}}-{{TA|1980|n}}'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |NAI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAI=* [[Náin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1832|n}}-{{TA|1981|n}}'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |THR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |THR=* [[Thráin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1934|n}}-{{TA|2190|n}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |THO| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |THO=* [[Thorin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2035|n}}-{{TA|2289|n}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |GLO| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |GLO=* [[Glóin (King of Durin's Folk)|Glóin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2136|n}}-{{TA|2385|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |OIN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OIN=* [[Óin (King of Durin's Folk)|Óin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2238|n}}-{{TA|2488|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |NAN| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAN=* [[Náin II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2338|n}}-{{TA|2585|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DAI| | | | | | | |BOR| | | | | | |DAI=* [[Dáin I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2440|n}}-{{TA|2589|n}}'' †</small><br/>|BOR=[[Borin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2450|n}}-{{TA|2711|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |THR| |FRO| |GRO| | | | | | | |FAR| | | | | | |THR=* [[Thrór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2542|n}}-{{TA|2790|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FRO=[[Frór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2552|n}}-{{TA|2589|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GRO=[[Grór]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2563|n}}-{{TA|2805|n}}''</small>|FAR=[[Farin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2560|n}}-{{TA|2803|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | |,|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |THN| | | | | |NIN| | | |FUN| | | | | |GRN| | |THN=* [[Thráin|Thráin II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2644|n}}-{{TA|2850|n}}'' †</small><br/>|NIN=[[Náin (son of Grór)|Náin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2665|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FUN=[[Fundin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2662|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GRN=[[Gróin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2671|n}}-{{TA|2923|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|TOS| |FRE| |DIS| |DIF| |BAL| |DWA| |OIN| |GLO|TOS=* [[Thorin|Thorin II Oakenshield]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2746|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>|FRE=[[Frerin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2751|n}}-{{TA|2799|n}}'' †</small><br/>|DIS=[[Dís]]<br/><small>''born {{TA|2760|n}}''</small>|DIF=* [[Dáin Ironfoot|Dáin II Ironfoot]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2767|n}}-{{TA|3019|n}}'' †</small><br/>|BAL=[[Balin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2763|n}}-{{TA|2994|n}}'' †</small><br/>|DWA=[[Dwalin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2772|n}}-{{FoA|91}}''</small>|OIN=[[Óin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2774|n}}-{{TA|2994|n}}'' †</small><br/>|GLO=[[Glóin]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2783|n}}-{{FoA|15}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | |FIL| |KIL| |TSH| | | | | | | | | | | | | |GEF|FIL=[[Fíli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2859|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>| KIL=[[Kíli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2864|n}}-{{TA|2941|n}}'' †</small><br/>|TSH=* [[Thorin Stonehelm| Thorin III Stonehelm]]<br/><small>''born {{TA|2866|n}}''</small>|GEF=[[Gimli]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2879|n}}-{{FoA|120}}''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |DAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |DAL=* [[Durin VII]] and Last<br/><small>''[[Fourth Age]]''</small><br>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div></div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Shivam&diff=374955User:Shivam2023-06-08T14:21:41Z<p>Shivam: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=[[File:The_Rings_of_Power_(TV_series)_-_Durin's_Bane.png|300px]]<br />
|name=Shivam| language=[[Wikipedia:Hindi|Hindi]] <br>[[Wikipedia:English|English]]<br><br />
[[Khuzdul]] (in process)| location=[[Wikipedia:India|India]]| birth=[[25 August]], [[2004]]| age=18| gender=Male| height=5'7"(173 cm) | hair=Black| eyes=Black| Talk Page=[[User talk:Shivam|Talk to me here]]| email=chieftainofthedunedain.bgp@gmail.com<br />
| userboxes=<br />
{{User India}}<br><br />
{{user 2y}}<br><br />
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<center><dl><dd><b><br />
<i>"Ho! Ho! Ho! To the bottle I go<br><br />
To heal my heart and drown my woe.<br><br />
Rain may fall and wind may blow,<br><br />
And many miles be still to go<br><br />
But under a tall tree I will lie,<br><br />
And let the clouds go sailing by."<br />
<br></i><br />
</b></dd></dl></center><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="50%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="Who am I?"></span><b>Who am I?</b></h3><p><b>I</b> am a fan and admirer of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s works. </p>I have been using [[Tolkien Gateway]] for about a year and became a member on [[5 April]] , [[2021]]. I have a special interest in [[The Lord of the Rings]] and [[The Hobbit]] books.<br><br />
<br />
I was introduced to [[Legendarium|Tolkien's Legendarium]] when I was about nine or ten years old and like many others it was through [[Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson's]] [[The Lord of the Rings (film_series)|LOTR trilogy]] but it was not until [[2018]] when I started gaining information about it.<br><br />
<br />
I was intruigued by the genealogies given in the Lord of the Rings book. After that I sort of memorised the whole family tree of [[Elros|Elros]] (because I find the [[Númenóreans|Númenóreans]] very relatable). It was just the beginning, I ended up studying [[House of Hurin]], [[House of Durin]] and many more.<br><br />
<br />
If anyone has any ideas or work related to genealogies please let me know.<br><br></td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My Work"><b>My Work</b></span></h3><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|My Edits]] <br><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|My contributions]] <br><br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My views on few things"><b>My views on few things</b></span></h3><br />
{| style="margin:0 auto;" class="mw-collapsed mw-collapsible toccolours" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
! align=center | Enter my mind<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very interesting that if we see [[Eldarion]]'s bloodline, he is destined to be king of Middle-Earth (apart from Dwarven realms) -<br />
|-<br />
| He inherits Mannish lands from his father-Aragorn.<br />
|-<br />
| And Elvish lands from his mother-Arwen.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •How great The Great Armament would have been that even the [[Valar]] didn't choose to fight rather they called upon [[Eru]].<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I think at the end of Third Age, the lifespan of the Dunedain was somewhat increased. The only examples we have are of Aragorn and Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Faramir lived upto the age of 120 which is longer than his ancestors (upto five generations). His last ancestor to pass hundred years was [[Belecthor II]] who was born about 231 years before the birth of Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Now, Aragorn lived for 210 years. This was longer than many of his ancestors. His last ancestor to live longer than him was Celepharn who was born 1952 years before him. Also the last of his line before him to pass 200 years was Malvegil, Celepharn's grandson. There are 26 generations between Celepharn and Aragorn - 11 Kings of Arthedain and 15 Chieftains of Dunedain.<br />
|-<br />
| But there are some contradicting ones too like the [[Princes of Dol Amroth]]. When Aragorn was born in TA 2931 [[Adrahil II]] was the Prince who was born in TA 2917, just 14 years before Aragorn. During Aragorn's life atleast five Princes lived and died which tells a lot.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •At the time of [[Downfall of Numenor]], Elendil had a better claim to kingship than [[Ar-Pharazon]] as there have been atleast two changes in the line of [[Kings of Numenor]] whereas in Elendil's family, the lordship passed from father to son in direct line.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very suspicious that after [[Pelendur]] chose Earnil II as King of Gondor, the position of Steward of Gondor became heriditary.<br><br />
|}<br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
"***" indicates [[King of Númenor]] or [[High King of the Dúnedain]]<br><br />
"**" indicates [[King of Arnor]]<br><br />
"*" indicates [[King of Arthedain]]<br><br />
"#" indicates [[King of Gondor]]<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; border: 2px solid black; padding: 3px; background: pink;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH=''[[House of Hador]]''<br/>|}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR=[[Elros]]<br/>***Tar-Minyatur<br/><small>''FA 531-SA 442''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VAR| |TIN| |MAN| |ATA| | | | | | | | | | |VAR=***[[Vardamir|Vardamir Nólimon]]<br/><small>''61-471''</small><br/>|TIN=''[[Tindómiel]]''|MAN=[[Manwendil]]|ATA=[[Atanalcar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |AMA| | | |VAR| | | |AUL| | | |NOL| | | | |AMA=***[[Tar-Amandil]]<br/><small>''192-603''</small>|VAR=''[[Vardilmë]]''<br/><small>''203''</small>|AUL=[[Aulendil (son of Vardamir)|Aulendil]]<br/><small>''213''</small>|NOL=[[Nolondil]]<br/><small>''222''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ELE| | | | | |VEA| |EAR| |MAI| |YAV| |ORO| |AXA|ELE=***[[Tar-Elendil]]<br/>[[Parmaitë]]<br/><small>''350-751''</small>|VEA=[[Vëantur]]|EAR=[[Eärendur (son of Tar-Amandil)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''361''</small>|MAI=''[[Mairen]]''<br/><small>''377''</small>|YAV=''[[Yávien]]''<br/><small>''371''</small>|ORO=[[Oromendil]]<br/><small>''382''</small>|AXA=[[Axantur]]<br/><small>''395''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |`|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space: nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELA|y|SIL| |ISI| |MEN|y|ALM| | | | | |CAL| |LIN| |ARD| |CEM|ELA=[[Elatan]]<BR/>of [[Andúnië]]|SIL=''[[Silmarien]]''<br/><small>''521''</small><br/>|ISI=''[[Isilmë]]''<br/><small>''532''</small>|MEN=[[Írimon]]<br/>***[[Tar-Meneldur]]<br/><small>''543-942''</small>|ALM=''[[Almarian]]''|CAL=[[Caliondo]]<br/><small>''512-900''</small>|LIN=''[[Lindissë]]''<br/><small>''551''</small>|ARD=[[Ardamir (son of Axantur)|Ardamir]]<br/><small>''562''</small>|CEM=[[Cemendur (son of Axantur)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''575''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|'| |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|VAL| |ANA|y|ERE| |AIL|y|ORC| |ALM| |MAL| | | | | |IRI| |HAL|VAL=[[Valandil (Lord of Andúnië)|Valandil]], First<br/>[[Lord of Andúnië]]|ANA=Anardil<br/>***[[Tar-Aldarion]]<br/><small>''700-1098''</small><br/>|ERE=''[[Erendis]]''<br/><small>''771-985'' †</small></small><br/>|AIL=''[[Ailinel]]''<br/><small>''712''</small>|ORC=[[Orchaldor]]|ALM=''[[Almiel]]''<br/><small>''729''</small>|MAL=[[Malantur]]<br/><small>''670''</small>|IRI=''[[Írildë]]''<br/><small>''700''</small>|HAL=[[Hallatan]] of<br/>[[Hyarastorni]]<br/><small>''711''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | |ANC| | | | | |SOR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NES| |HAL|ANC=***''[[Tar-Ancalimë]]''<br/><small>''873-1285''</small>|SOR=[[Soronto]]<br/><small>''799''</small>|NES=''[[Nessanië]]''<br/><small>''840''</small>|HAL=[[Hallacar]]<br/><small>''852-1211''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |L|~|~|~|~|~|y|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|J| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ERY| | | | | | | | | |ANA|ERY=Earlier lords<br/>of Andúnië|ANA=***[[Tar-Anárion]]<br/><small>''1003-1404''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |OLD| |SIS| |SUR|OLD=''Older Sister''| SIS=''Older Sister''|SUR=***[[Tar-Súrion]]<br/><small>''1174-1574''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |TEL| |ISI|TEL=***''[[Tar-Telperiën]]''<br/><small>''1320-1731''</small><br/><br/>|ISI=[[Isilmo]]}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |MIN|MIN=***[[Tar-Minastir]]<br/><small>''1474-1873''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CIR=***[[Tar-Ciryatan]]<br/><small>''1634-2035''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |ATN|ATN=***[[Tar-Atanamir]]<br/>the Great<br/><small>''1800-2221''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |F|~|~|~|[| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | |:| | |ANC|ANC=***[[Tar-Ancalimon]]<br/><small>''1986-2386''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | |:| | |TEL|TEL=***[[Tar-Telemmaitë]]<br/><small>''2136-2526''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |HER|y|VAN|HER=[[Herucalmo]]<br/>[[Tar-Anducal]]<br/><small>''2286-2657''</small><br/>|VAN=***''[[Tar-Vanimeldë]]''<br/><small>''2277-2637''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |ALC| | |ALC=***[[Tar-Alcarin]]<br/><small>''2406-2737''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |CAL| | |CAL=***[[Tar-Calmacil]]<br/>(Ar-Belzagar)<br/><small>''2516-2825''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |F|~|v|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ARD| |GIM|ARD=***[[Tar-Ardamin]]<br/>(Ar-Avattârik)<br/><small>''2618-2899''</small>|GIM=[[Gimilzagar]]<br/><small>''2630''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ADU| | | | |ADU=***[[Ar-Adûnakhôr]]<br/>(Tar-Herunúmen)<br/><small>''2709-2962''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ZIM| | | | |ZIM=***[[Ar-Zimrathôn]]<br/>(Tar-Hostamir) )<br/><small>''2798-3033''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |D|~|~|~|7| |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|EAR| |LIN|:|SAK| | | | |EAR=[[Eärendur (Lord of Andúnië)|Eärendur]]<br/>Fifteenth Lord<br/>of Andúnië|LIN=''[[Lindórië]] ''|SAK=***[[Ar-Sakalthôr]]<br/>(Tar-Falassion)<br/><small>''2876-3102''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |]|~|J| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |INZ|y|GIM| | | | |INZ=''[[Inzilbêth]] ''|GIM=***[[Ar-Gimilzôr]]<br/>(Tar-Telemnar)<br/><small>''2960-3177''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|NUM| |PAL| |GMK| | | | |NUM=[[Númendil]]|PAL=***[[Tar-Palantir]]<br/>(Ar-Inziladûn)<br/><small>''3035-3255''</small>|GMK=[[Gimilkhâd]]<br/><small>''3044-3243''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|AMA| |MIR|~|PHA|AMA=[[Amandil]]<br/>Last Lord</br/>of Andúnië<br/>|MIR=''[[Tar-Míriel]]''<br/>''(Ar-Zimraphel) ''<br/><small>''3117-3319'' †</small><br/>|PHA=***[[Ar-Pharazôn]]<br/>(Tar-Calion)<br/><small>''3118-3319'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELE=***[[Elendil]]<br/><small>''3119-3441'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ISI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ANA|ISI=***[[Isildur]]<br/><small>''S.A.3209-T.A.2'' †</small><br/>|ANA=#[[Anárion]]<br/><small>''S.A.3219-S.A.3441'' †</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| |ARA| |CIR| |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| |ELE=[[Elendur (son of Isildur)| Elendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3299-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|ARA=[[Aratan]]<br/><small>''SA 3339-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|CIR=[[Ciryon]]<br/><small>''SA 3379-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|VAL=**[[Valandil (King of Arnor)|Valandil]]<br/><small>''SA 3430-TA 249''</small>|MEN=#[[Meneldil]]<br/><small>''SA 3318-TA 158''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |CEM| |ELD=**[[Eldacar (King of Arnor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''87-339''</small>|CEM=#[[Cemendur (King of Gondor)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3399-TA 238''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARA| | | | | | | | | | | | |EAR| |ARA=**[[Arantar]]<br/><small>''185-435''</small>|EAR=#[[Eärendil (King of Gondor)|Eärendil]]<br/><small>''TA 48-324''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| | | | | | | | | | | | |ANR| |TAR=**[[Tarcil]]<br/><small>''280-515''</small>|ANR=#[[Anardil (King of Gondor)|Anardil]]<br/><small>''136-411''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TRD| | | | | | | | | | | | |OST| |TRD=**[[Tarondor (King of Arnor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''372-602''</small>|OST=#[[Ostoher]]<br/><small>''222-492''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| |VAL=**[[Valandur]]<br/><small>''462-652'' †</small>|TAR=#Tarostar<br/>[[Rómendacil I]]<br/><small>''310-541'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |TUR| |ELD=**[[Elendur (King of Arnor)|Elendur]]<br/><small>''552-777''</small>|TUR=#[[Turambar (King of Gondor)|Turambar]]<br/><small>''397-667''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ERD| | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA| |ERD=**[[Eärendur (King of Arnor)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''640-861''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar I]]<br/><small>''480-748''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AML| |KOC| |KOR| | | | | | | | |SIR| |AML=*[[Amlaith]]<br/>of [[Fornost]]<br/><small>''726-946''</small>|KOC=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Cardolan]]|KOR=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Rhudaur]]|SIR=#[[Siriondil (King of Gondor)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''570-830''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |BEL| | | | | | | | | | |BER|~|FAL| |TCY|BEL=*[[Beleg (King of Arthedain)|Beleg]]<br/><small>''811-1029''</small>|BER=''[[Berúthiel]]''<br/>|FAL=#Tarannon<br/>[[Tarannon Falastur|Falastur]]<br/><small>''654-913''</small>|TCY=[[Tarciryan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERN|MAL=*[[Mallor]]<br/><small>''895-1110''</small>|ERN=#[[Eärnil I]]<br/><small>''736-936'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CEL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CEL=*[[Celepharn]]<br/><small>''979-1191''</small>|CIR=#[[Ciryandil]]<br/><small>''820-1015'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CLB| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HYA|CLB=*[[Celebrindor]]<br/><small>''1062-1272''</small>|HYA=#Ciryaher<br/>[[Hyarmendacil I]]<br/><small>''899-1149''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA|MVG=*[[Malvegil]]<br/><small>''1144-1349''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar II]]<br/>[[Alcarin]]<br/><small>''977-1226''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAR| |CMC|AGL=*[[Argeleb I]]<br/><small>''1226-1356'' †</small><br/>|NAR=#[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''1049-1294''</small>|CMC=#[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''1058-1304''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|-|-|.|}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VID| |MIN| | | |CLM| | |AVL=*[[Arveleg I]]<br/><small>''1309-1409'' †</small><br/>|VID=[[Vidugavia]]|MIN=#Minalcar<br/>[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''1126-1366''</small>|CLM=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |:|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VUM|y|VLC| | | | |:|APH=*[[Araphor]]<br/><small>''1391-1589''</small>|VUM=''[[Vidumavi]]''<br/>d. 1332|VLC=#[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''1194-1432''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | |CAS| | |AGL=*[[Argeleb II]]<br/><small>''1473-1670''</small>|ELD=#Vinitharya<br/>[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''1255-1490''</small><br/>|CAS=#[[Castamir]]<br/>the Usurper<br/><small>''1259-1447''</small> †<br/></small> }}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ORN| |ALD| | | |SNS| | |AVG=*[[Arvegil]]<br/><small>''1553-1743''</small>|ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/>''d. 1437'' †</small><br/>|ALD=#[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''1330-1540'' †</small><br/>|SNS=Sons<br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VYR| | | | |:| | | ||ARG=*[[Arveleg II]]<br/><small>''1633-1813''</small>|VYR=#Vinyarion<br/>[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''1391-1621''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |F|~|A|~|7| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |MND| |ANG| |SAN|AVL=*[[Araval]]<br/><small>''1711-1891''</small>|MND=#[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''1454-1634'' †</small><br/>|ANG=[[Angamaitë]]|SAN=[[Sangahyando]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APT| |OND| | | | | | | | | | | | |TLM| |MNS| |APT=*[[Araphant]]<br/><small>''1789-1964''</small>|OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/>of Gondor|TLM=#[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''1516-1636'' †</small><br/>|MNS=[[Minastan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARI|y|FIR| | | | | | | | | | | | |CHL| |TRD|ARI=*[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''1864-1975'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896''</small>|CHL=Children<br/>''d. 1636'' †</small>|TRD=#[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''1577-1798''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |]|~|~|~|7| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARN| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |TUT| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARN=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''1938-2106''</small>|TUT=#[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br/>Umbardacil<br/><small>''1632-1850''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NMC| | | | | | | |ARC| |AHL=[[Arahael]]<br/><small>''2012-2177''</small>|NMC=#[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''1684-1856'' †</small><br/>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ANR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CET| | | | | | | |CCL| |ANR=[[Aranuir]]<br/><small>''2084-2247''</small>|CET=#[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''1736-1936''</small>|CCL=[[Calimmacil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OND| | | |DTR| |SIR| |AVR=[[Aravir]]<br/><small>''2156-2319''</small>|OND=#[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''1787-1944'' †</small><br/>|DTR=''Daughter''|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | ||,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | | | | | | |ART| |FAR| |FIR| | | |MNT| |ERL| | |AGN=[[Aragorn I]]<br/><small>''2227-2327'' †</small><br/>|ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896'' †</small>|MNT=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|ERL=#[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''1883-2043''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERR| |AGL=[[Araglas]]<br/><small>''2296-2455''</small>|ERR=#[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''1928-2050'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHD| | |:| | | | | |AHD=[[Arahad I]]<br/><small>''2365-2523''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGT| | |:| | | | | |AGT=[[Aragost]]<br/><small>''2431-2588''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVN| | |:| | | | | |AVN=[[Aravorn]]<br/><small>''2497-2654''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARH| | |:| | | | | |ARH=[[Arahad II]]<br/><small>''2563-2719''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ASS| | |:| | | | | |ASS=[[Arassuil]]<br/><small>''2628-2784''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH| | |:| | | | | |ATH=[[Arathorn I]]<br/><small>''2693-2848'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | |GIL|AGN=[[Argonui]]<br/><small>''2757-2912''</small>|GIL=[[Gilbarad]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ADR| |DIR|y|IVO|ADR=[[Arador]]<br/><small>''2820-2930'' †</small><br/>|DIR=[[Dírhael]]<br/>|IVO=''[[Ivorwen]]''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH|~|y|~|GIL| | |ATH=[[Arathorn II]]<br/><small>''2873-2933'' †</small><br/>|GIL=''[[Gilraen]]''<br/><small>''2907-3007''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |AGN|y|ARW| |AGN=***[[Aragorn|Aragorn II]]<br/>King Elessar<br/><small>''2931-FoA 120''</small>|ARW=''[[Arwen]]''<br/><small>''TA 241-FoA 121''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| |DTS| |ELD=***[[Eldarion]]<small><br>''FoA 1-220''</br></small>|DTS=''Daughters''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-colour:white;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| | | | |MEN=''Hundred generations <br> of men''</br>}}<br />
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</div><br />
[[Category:House of Telcontar]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Anne_Besson&diff=374951Anne Besson2023-06-08T08:50:16Z<p>Shivam: /* External links */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author infobox<br />
| image=<br />
| name=Anne Besson<br />
| born=[[1975]]<br />
| died=<br />
| education=University of Artois<br />
| occupation=researcher and professor of general and comparative literature<br />
| location=France<br />
| website=http://textesetcultures.univ-artois.fr/annuaire-des-membres/professeurs-et-mcf-habilites/anne-besson<br />
}}<br />
'''Anne Besson''' is a French researcher and professor of general and comparative literature at the University of Artois. She is known for her work on genre literature, science fiction and fantasy and, more generally, literatures of the imaginary, in which she is a specialist.<br />
<br />
== Bibliography ==<br />
<br />
=== Books ===<br />
* [[2004]]: ''D'Asimov à Tolkien: Cycles et séries dans la littérature de genre'', CNRS éditions, 28 octobre 2004, p. 250. <br />
<br />
=== Articles ===<br />
* [[2003]]: ''[[Tolkien, trente ans après]]''<br />
** "La Terre du Milieu et les royaumes voisins: de l'influence de Tolkien sur les cycles de Fantasy contemporains", p. 357-379.<br />
* [[2007]]: ''Fantasy, le merveilleux médiéval aujourd’hui'', éd. Anne Besson and Myriam White-Le Goff, Paris, Bragelonne, «Essais», 2007.<br />
** "[https://www.tolkiendil.com/essais/colloques/colloque_crelid/a_besson Arthur et Tolkien, seigneurs rivaux, fantasy et transfictionnalité]", dans le cadre du colloque «Fantasy, le merveilleux médiéval aujourd'hui» (CRELID, Université d’Artois, les 16-17 mars 2006), p. 75-86.<br />
* [[2011]]: ''[[Tolkien aujourd'hui]]''<br />
** "Fécondités d'un malentendu: la postérité de Tolkien en fantasy", (actes du colloque de Rambures, 13-15 juin 2008), p. 197-209.<br />
* [[2011]]: ''Contemporary French & Francophone Studies: SITES'', Routledge, n° 15.2, dir. par Anne Berthelot et Alain Lescart, mars 2011.<br />
** "Comme une ombre lointaine. L’influence de Tolkien sur la fantasy française", p. 141-151.<br />
*[[2016]]: ''Europe'', special issue dedicated to Tolkien and Lovecraft, dir. Roger Bozzetto and [[Vincent Ferré]]. <br />
** "Tolkien et la fantasy, encore et toujours? Légitimations croisées, filiations contestées", p. 149-157.<br />
* [[2019]] : ''Revue de la Bibliothèque nationale de France'', n°59. <br />
** "L'arbre et la forêt: postérité de Tolkien en fantasy", p. 12-21.<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
* [http://textesetcultures.univ-artois.fr/annuaire-des-membres/professeurs-et-mcf-habilites/anne-besson Academic webpage].<br><br />
*[https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Besson Anne Besson] at Wikipedia<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Besson, Anne}}<br />
[[Category:Authors]]<br />
[[Category:French people]]<br />
[[Category:People by name]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Isabelle_Pantin&diff=374950Isabelle Pantin2023-06-08T08:50:08Z<p>Shivam: /* External links */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author infobox<br />
| image=<br />
| name=Isabelle Pantin<br />
| born=[[1952]]<br />
| died=<br />
| education=<br />
| occupation=associate professor of French literature<br />
| location=France<br />
| website=<br />
}}<br />
'''Isabelle Pantin''', born in [[1952]], is a French academic specialising in the Renaissance and the works of Tolkien. She is an associate professor of French literature at the École normale supérieure (Ulm) and an associate researcher at the Observatoire de Paris. She works on the relationship between literature, philosophy and the history of cosmology. She is known among the tolkienists for her book ''Tolkien et ses légendes'' (''Tolkien and his legends'') published in [[2009]]<ref>See the review by M. Mouton in [[Hither Shore]] n°7, p.239-241, [[2010]].</ref>.<br />
<br />
== Bibliography ==<br />
<br />
=== Books ===<br />
* [[2009]]: ''Tolkien et ses légendes : Une expérience en fiction'', coll. «Médiévalisme (s)», CNRS editions, 320 p.<br />
<br />
=== Articles ===<br />
* [[2011]]: ''[[Tolkien aujourd'hui]]''<br />
** "Tolkien et l'histoire littéraire: l'aporie du contexte"<br />
* [[2012]]: ''[[L'Arc et le Heaume (Special Issue) 1]]''<br />
** "Tolkien et le romantisme"<br />
*[[?]]: ''L’Antiquité dans l’imaginaire contemporain'', coll. Rencontres n°88<br />
** "L’ombre de Troie dans l’œuvre de Tolkien"<br />
*[[2019]]: ''Tolkien. Voyage en Terre du Milieu'', éd. Vincent Ferré et Frédéric Manfrin, Paris, Bibliothèque nationale de France/Christian Bourgois.<br />
** "Inventer, visualiser, dessiner des mondes"<br />
*[[2019]]: ''Tolkien et la Terre du Milieu. Un monde en palimpsestes''<br />
** "Un arrière-texte du Legendarium : le dialogue entre Lewis et Tolkien sur les mythes et les “stories”"<br />
*[[2019]]: ''Fantasy & histoire(s)'', Éditions ActuSF.<br />
** "L'histoire au miroir de la légende dans l'œuvre de Tolkien", p. 101-120.<br />
<br />
=== Public lectures ===<br />
* [[2020]]: "[https://www.bnf.fr/fr/mediatheque/tolkien-geographe Tolkien géographe]", dans le cadre de l’exposition Tolkien de la Bibliothèque nationale de France, 24 janvier 2020.<br />
* [[2022]]: "[http://www.archeo.ens.fr/Tolkien-ecrivain-cartographe-geographe.html Tolkien écrivain cartographe et géographe : les paradoxes de l’espace fictif]", dans le cadre du séminaire « (D)Écrire le monde : science et littérature (des Anciens aux Modernes) ». <br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
* [https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabelle_Pantin Isabelle Pantin] at Wikipedia<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Pantin, Isabelle}}<br />
[[Category:Authors]]<br />
[[Category:French people]]<br />
[[Category:People by name]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Shivam&diff=374949User:Shivam2023-06-08T08:33:52Z<p>Shivam: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=[[File:The_Rings_of_Power_(TV_series)_-_Durin's_Bane.png|300px]]<br />
|name=Shivam| language=[[Wikipedia:Hindi|Hindi]] <br>[[Wikipedia:English|English]]<br><br />
[[Khuzdul]] (in process)| location=[[Wikipedia:India|India]]| birth=[[25 August]], [[2004]]| age=18| gender=Male| height=5'7"(173 cm) | hair=Black| eyes=Black| Talk Page=[[User talk:Shivam|Talk to me here]]| email=chieftainofthedunedain.bgp@gmail.com<br />
| userboxes=<br />
{{User India}}<br><br />
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<center><dl><dd><b><br />
<i>"Ho! Ho! Ho! To the bottle I go<br><br />
To heal my heart and drown my woe.<br><br />
Rain may fall and wind may blow,<br><br />
And many miles be still to go<br><br />
But under a tall tree I will lie,<br><br />
And let the clouds go sailing by."<br />
<br></i><br />
</b></dd></dl></center><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="50%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="Who am I?"></span><b>Who am I?</b></h3><p><b>I</b> am a fan and admirer of [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s works. </p>I have been using [[Tolkien Gateway]] for about a year and became a member on [[5 April]] , [[2021]]. I have a special interest in [[The Lord of the Rings]] and [[The Hobbit]] books.<br><br />
<br />
I was introduced to [[Legendarium|Tolkien's Legendarium]] when I was about nine or ten years old and like many others it was through [[Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson's]] [[The Lord of the Rings (film_series)|LOTR trilogy]] but it was not until [[2018]] when I started gaining information about it.<br><br />
<br />
I was intruigued by the genealogies given in the Lord of the Rings book. After that I sort of memorised the whole family tree of [[Elros|Elros]] (because I find the [[Númenóreans|Númenóreans]] very relatable). It was just the beginning, I ended up studying [[House of Hurin]], [[House of Durin]] and many more.<br><br />
<br />
If anyone has any ideas or work related to genealogies please let me know.<br><br></td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My Work"><b>My Work</b></span></h3><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|My Edits]] <br><br />
<br />
*[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|My contributions]] <br><br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
<table style="padding: 5px; width: 70%; background:white; border: 5px solid #006400; -moz-border-radius: 6px; margin-bottom: 4px; clear: left;"><br />
<tr><td width="100%"><h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="My views on few things"><b>My views on few things</b></span></h3><br />
{| style="margin:0 auto;" class="mw-collapsed mw-collapsible toccolours" width="100%"<br />
|-<br />
! align=center | Enter my mind<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very interesting that if we see [[Eldarion]]'s bloodline, he is destined to be king of Middle-Earth (apart from Dwarven realms) -<br />
|-<br />
| He inherits Mannish lands from his father-Aragorn.<br />
|-<br />
| And Elvish lands from his mother-Arwen.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •How great The Great Armament would have been that even the [[Valar]] didn't choose to fight rather they called upon [[Eru]].<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I think at the end of Third Age, the lifespan of the Dunedain was somewhat increased. The only examples we have are of Aragorn and Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Faramir lived upto the age of 120 which is longer than his ancestors (upto five generations). His last ancestor to pass hundred years was [[Belecthor II]] who was born about 231 years before the birth of Faramir.<br />
|-<br />
| Now, Aragorn lived for 210 years. This was longer than many of his ancestors. His last ancestor to live longer than him was Celepharn who was born 1952 years before him. Also the last of his line before him to pass 200 years was Malvegil, Celepharn's grandson. There are 26 generations between Celepharn and Aragorn - 11 Kings of Arthedain and 15 Chieftains of Dunedain.<br />
|-<br />
| But there are some contradicting ones too like the [[Princes of Dol Amroth]]. When Aragorn was born in TA 2931 [[Adrahil II]] was the Prince who was born in TA 2917, just 14 years before Aragorn. During Aragorn's life atleast five Princes lived and died which tells a lot.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •At the time of [[Downfall of Numenor]], Elendil had a better claim to kingship than [[Ar-Pharazon]] as there have been atleast two changes in the line of [[Kings of Numenor]] whereas in Elendil's family, the lordship passed from father to son in direct line.<br><br><br />
|-<br />
|-<br />
| •I find it very suspicious that after [[Pelendur]] chose Earnil II as King of Gondor, the position of Steward of Gondor became heriditary.<br><br />
|}<br />
</td></tr></table><br><br><br />
<br />
"***" indicates [[King of Númenor]] or [[High King of the Dúnedain]]<br><br />
"**" indicates [[King of Arnor]]<br><br />
"*" indicates [[King of Arthedain]]<br><br />
"#" indicates [[King of Gondor]]<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; border: 2px solid black; padding: 3px; background: pink;"><br />
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{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |`|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ERY| | | | | | | | | |ANA|ERY=Earlier lords<br/>of Andúnië|ANA=***[[Tar-Anárion]]<br/><small>''1003-1404''</small>}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |OLD| |SIS| |SUR|OLD=''Older Sister''| SIS=''Older Sister''|SUR=***[[Tar-Súrion]]<br/><small>''1174-1574''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |TEL| |ISI|TEL=***''[[Tar-Telperiën]]''<br/><small>''1320-1731''</small><br/><br/>|ISI=[[Isilmo]]}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
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{{familytree | |D|~|~|~|7| |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|EAR| |LIN|:|SAK| | | | |EAR=[[Eärendur (Lord of Andúnië)|Eärendur]]<br/>Fifteenth Lord<br/>of Andúnië|LIN=''[[Lindórië]] ''|SAK=***[[Ar-Sakalthôr]]<br/>(Tar-Falassion)<br/><small>''2876-3102''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |]|~|J| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |INZ|y|GIM| | | | |INZ=''[[Inzilbêth]] ''|GIM=***[[Ar-Gimilzôr]]<br/>(Tar-Telemnar)<br/><small>''2960-3177''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|NUM| |PAL| |GMK| | | | |NUM=[[Númendil]]|PAL=***[[Tar-Palantir]]<br/>(Ar-Inziladûn)<br/><small>''3035-3255''</small>|GMK=[[Gimilkhâd]]<br/><small>''3044-3243''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|AMA| |MIR|~|PHA|AMA=[[Amandil]]<br/>Last Lord</br/>of Andúnië<br/>|MIR=''[[Tar-Míriel]]''<br/>''(Ar-Zimraphel) ''<br/><small>''3117-3319'' †</small><br/>|PHA=***[[Ar-Pharazôn]]<br/>(Tar-Calion)<br/><small>''3118-3319'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELE=***[[Elendil]]<br/><small>''3119-3441'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ISI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ANA|ISI=***[[Isildur]]<br/><small>''S.A.3209-T.A.2'' †</small><br/>|ANA=#[[Anárion]]<br/><small>''S.A.3219-S.A.3441'' †</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| |ARA| |CIR| |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| |ELE=[[Elendur (son of Isildur)| Elendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3299-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|ARA=[[Aratan]]<br/><small>''SA 3339-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|CIR=[[Ciryon]]<br/><small>''SA 3379-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|VAL=**[[Valandil (King of Arnor)|Valandil]]<br/><small>''SA 3430-TA 249''</small>|MEN=#[[Meneldil]]<br/><small>''SA 3318-TA 158''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |CEM| |ELD=**[[Eldacar (King of Arnor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''87-339''</small>|CEM=#[[Cemendur (King of Gondor)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3399-TA 238''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARA| | | | | | | | | | | | |EAR| |ARA=**[[Arantar]]<br/><small>''185-435''</small>|EAR=#[[Eärendil (King of Gondor)|Eärendil]]<br/><small>''TA 48-324''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| | | | | | | | | | | | |ANR| |TAR=**[[Tarcil]]<br/><small>''280-515''</small>|ANR=#[[Anardil (King of Gondor)|Anardil]]<br/><small>''136-411''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TRD| | | | | | | | | | | | |OST| |TRD=**[[Tarondor (King of Arnor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''372-602''</small>|OST=#[[Ostoher]]<br/><small>''222-492''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| |VAL=**[[Valandur]]<br/><small>''462-652'' †</small>|TAR=#Tarostar<br/>[[Rómendacil I]]<br/><small>''310-541'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |TUR| |ELD=**[[Elendur (King of Arnor)|Elendur]]<br/><small>''552-777''</small>|TUR=#[[Turambar (King of Gondor)|Turambar]]<br/><small>''397-667''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ERD| | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA| |ERD=**[[Eärendur (King of Arnor)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''640-861''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar I]]<br/><small>''480-748''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AML| |KOC| |KOR| | | | | | | | |SIR| |AML=*[[Amlaith]]<br/>of [[Fornost]]<br/><small>''726-946''</small>|KOC=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Cardolan]]|KOR=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Rhudaur]]|SIR=#[[Siriondil (King of Gondor)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''570-830''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |BEL| | | | | | | | | | |BER|~|FAL| |TCY|BEL=*[[Beleg (King of Arthedain)|Beleg]]<br/><small>''811-1029''</small>|BER=''[[Berúthiel]]''<br/>|FAL=#Tarannon<br/>[[Tarannon Falastur|Falastur]]<br/><small>''654-913''</small>|TCY=[[Tarciryan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERN|MAL=*[[Mallor]]<br/><small>''895-1110''</small>|ERN=#[[Eärnil I]]<br/><small>''736-936'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CEL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CEL=*[[Celepharn]]<br/><small>''979-1191''</small>|CIR=#[[Ciryandil]]<br/><small>''820-1015'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CLB| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HYA|CLB=*[[Celebrindor]]<br/><small>''1062-1272''</small>|HYA=#Ciryaher<br/>[[Hyarmendacil I]]<br/><small>''899-1149''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA|MVG=*[[Malvegil]]<br/><small>''1144-1349''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar II]]<br/>[[Alcarin]]<br/><small>''977-1226''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAR| |CMC|AGL=*[[Argeleb I]]<br/><small>''1226-1356'' †</small><br/>|NAR=#[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''1049-1294''</small>|CMC=#[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''1058-1304''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|-|-|.|}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VID| |MIN| | | |CLM| | |AVL=*[[Arveleg I]]<br/><small>''1309-1409'' †</small><br/>|VID=[[Vidugavia]]|MIN=#Minalcar<br/>[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''1126-1366''</small>|CLM=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |:|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VUM|y|VLC| | | | |:|APH=*[[Araphor]]<br/><small>''1391-1589''</small>|VUM=''[[Vidumavi]]''<br/>d. 1332|VLC=#[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''1194-1432''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | |CAS| | |AGL=*[[Argeleb II]]<br/><small>''1473-1670''</small>|ELD=#Vinitharya<br/>[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''1255-1490''</small><br/>|CAS=#[[Castamir]]<br/>the Usurper<br/><small>''1259-1447''</small> †<br/></small> }}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ORN| |ALD| | | |SNS| | |AVG=*[[Arvegil]]<br/><small>''1553-1743''</small>|ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/>''d. 1437'' †</small><br/>|ALD=#[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''1330-1540'' †</small><br/>|SNS=Sons<br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VYR| | | | |:| | | ||ARG=*[[Arveleg II]]<br/><small>''1633-1813''</small>|VYR=#Vinyarion<br/>[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''1391-1621''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |F|~|A|~|7| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |MND| |ANG| |SAN|AVL=*[[Araval]]<br/><small>''1711-1891''</small>|MND=#[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''1454-1634'' †</small><br/>|ANG=[[Angamaitë]]|SAN=[[Sangahyando]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APT| |OND| | | | | | | | | | | | |TLM| |MNS| |APT=*[[Araphant]]<br/><small>''1789-1964''</small>|OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/>of Gondor|TLM=#[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''1516-1636'' †</small><br/>|MNS=[[Minastan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARI|y|FIR| | | | | | | | | | | | |CHL| |TRD|ARI=*[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''1864-1975'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896''</small>|CHL=Children<br/>''d. 1636'' †</small>|TRD=#[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''1577-1798''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |]|~|~|~|7| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARN| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |TUT| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARN=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''1938-2106''</small>|TUT=#[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br/>Umbardacil<br/><small>''1632-1850''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NMC| | | | | | | |ARC| |AHL=[[Arahael]]<br/><small>''2012-2177''</small>|NMC=#[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''1684-1856'' †</small><br/>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ANR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CET| | | | | | | |CCL| |ANR=[[Aranuir]]<br/><small>''2084-2247''</small>|CET=#[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''1736-1936''</small>|CCL=[[Calimmacil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OND| | | |DTR| |SIR| |AVR=[[Aravir]]<br/><small>''2156-2319''</small>|OND=#[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''1787-1944'' †</small><br/>|DTR=''Daughter''|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | ||,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | | | | | | |ART| |FAR| |FIR| | | |MNT| |ERL| | |AGN=[[Aragorn I]]<br/><small>''2227-2327'' †</small><br/>|ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896'' †</small>|MNT=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|ERL=#[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''1883-2043''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERR| |AGL=[[Araglas]]<br/><small>''2296-2455''</small>|ERR=#[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''1928-2050'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHD| | |:| | | | | |AHD=[[Arahad I]]<br/><small>''2365-2523''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGT| | |:| | | | | |AGT=[[Aragost]]<br/><small>''2431-2588''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVN| | |:| | | | | |AVN=[[Aravorn]]<br/><small>''2497-2654''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARH| | |:| | | | | |ARH=[[Arahad II]]<br/><small>''2563-2719''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ASS| | |:| | | | | |ASS=[[Arassuil]]<br/><small>''2628-2784''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH| | |:| | | | | |ATH=[[Arathorn I]]<br/><small>''2693-2848'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | |}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ADR| |DIR|y|IVO|ADR=[[Arador]]<br/><small>''2820-2930'' †</small><br/>|DIR=[[Dírhael]]<br/>|IVO=''[[Ivorwen]]''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH|~|y|~|GIL| | |ATH=[[Arathorn II]]<br/><small>''2873-2933'' †</small><br/>|GIL=''[[Gilraen]]''<br/><small>''2907-3007''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |AGN|y|ARW| |AGN=***[[Aragorn|Aragorn II]]<br/>King Elessar<br/><small>''2931-FoA 120''</small>|ARW=''[[Arwen]]''<br/><small>''TA 241-FoA 121''</small>}}<br />
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{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| |DTS| |ELD=***[[Eldarion]]<small><br>''FoA 1-220''</br></small>|DTS=''Daughters''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-colour:white;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| | | | |MEN=''Hundred generations <br> of men''</br>}}<br />
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</div><br />
[[Category:House of Telcontar]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dour1234&diff=373973User talk:Dour12342023-05-26T01:02:53Z<p>Shivam: /* Ancestry of Aragorn */</p>
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<div>{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Dour1234}}<br />
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-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 05:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Moving pages==<br />
Moving pages is not the wiki's priority, and not a work for newcomers. Pages must never been moved via copypasting! You ignored what I told you about using talkpages before moving anything, and obviously you still are unawared of the [[Tolkien Gateway:Naming policy]], so I'm blocking you again. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:04, 28 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
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Moving talkpages is even less important, and I told you don't do it via copypasting; that way we loose the history of edits. Just👏don't👏move👏anything👏please! --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:03, 16 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Calm down==<br />
You made almost 20 edits in one day just in the Lungorthin article. Please, planify your edits and check the preview before saving. You are constantly correcting yourself and making useless microedits like removing spaces. Editing for the sake of editing does not help the wiki. My recommendation: choose a matter of your interest, study the sources, think how to apply it to the wiki and then edit with calm if it is necessary. Also, the correction on Lurgonthin being a Maia was a good reason for you to ask in the talkpage, but you simply reject it. I'm blocking you just couple of weeks, let's see if you can moderate yourself already. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 22:25, 24 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Nameless Things==<br />
The index of The Lord of the Rings was not written by J.R.R. Tolkien. You can learn some information about the index by reading the Note on the text and the introductory text of the Index of the 50th anniversary edition of The Lord of the Rings, which even explicitly says "Compiled by Christina Scull & Wayne G. Hammond". They only say that they also have "referred to the index, that Tolkien himself began to prepare during 1954, but which he left unfinished after dealing only with place names". Christina Scull & Wayne G. Hammond do not quote an entry for "Nameless Things" from J.R.R. Tolkien's unfinished index that was prepared by Nancy Smith for him and reviewed by him [[Unfinished index]]. The entry in the index in the 50th anniversary edition does not say "Nameless" (the term that you used in your edit), but says "Nameless, gnawing things" followed by the page number, which is the page where Gandalf calls them "nameless things". Since the nameless things are not a placename, it is probable that they were not included in the unfinished index that was reviewed by J.R.R. Tolkien. Also, generally reliable sources, such as Michael Martinez's middle-earth.xenite.org and Mark Fisher's The Encyclopedia of Arda call them "Nameless Things". I suggest that you read the Templates to familiarize yourself with them before you edit and that you avoid breaking up your edits into microedits. The [[Template:RK]] contains an entry for the index and entries for subsections of the index. Since the index was not written by J.R.R. Tolkien it is not a reliable source. For example the entry in the index of the 50th anniversary edition of an e-book versions for Cirith Ungol reads "Cirith Ungol [Pass of the Spider] (High Pass, Nameless Pass)". If one reads the descriptions of the locations of the passes in the chapters it becomes clear that the Nameless Pass in the chapter The Stairs of Cirith Ungol is the Morgul Pass that is mentioned in The Black Gate Opens and in The Tower of Cirith Ungol. You create unnecessary work for other users to review your edits and to correct your edits if you do not support your edits with reliable sources and if you break up your edits into microedits. Lorenzo already told you on this talk page how to do thorough edits. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 07:57, 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Tevildo==<br />
Several sections on the Tevildo page that you edited or created do not contain any reference. You have already been told to use references in your edits. You risk that your edits will be reverted and that you will be blocked again if you do not adhere to Tolkien Gateways's policies. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 08:39, 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I will get to adding the references right now.<br />
:Edit, just finished adding page references to the article, please name the other pages I need to do. Regardless, I am going to be adding page references to the Leaf by Niggle article now. I regret saying this as I just remembered I do not have that version with the correct pagination. However, I will still put the reference to the book, though. Edit again, what reference shortcut template do I use for specifically “Leaf by Niggle”? It is not mentioned on the references help page. --[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]], 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
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::I don't know what's the standard edition of "Leaf by Niggle" that should be used for the wiki. Adding a simple reference without pagination will always better than no reference at all. In the case of Tevildo, I'll have to change all your work, as the pagination does not match the one used by Christopher Tolkien or the wiki. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:23, 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Southward Road ==<br />
I noticed that you created a new page called Southward Road. While it is positive that you noticed that the name Southward Road is used once with capital characters at the beginning of each word, which signifies a proper name, you did not include a page number for the 50th anniversary edition of The Lord of the Rings and left the page unfinished although it does not require much content. In addition, you do not seem to have performed research if the road could be another name for the Harad Road and you do not seem to have looked at the information on the Harad Road with the fact that J.R.R. Tolkien used the name Harad Road for the part of the road to the south of the Cross-roads on a draft map. You phrased the information that you wrote like it was fact. Please do not make any edits until you have thoroughly researched a topic and until you can include complete references. Very often it is better not to make edits at all. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 09:15, 12 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Caves of the Forgotten ==<br />
You create extra work for other users if you do not read the sources carefully and do not prepare your edits carefully. If was quite plain from the text that only the mortal men that came ashore, but not Ar-Pharazôn and not Tar-Miriel were buried in the Caves of the Forgotten. You created a title for a section called "Other versions" with information from manuscripts of J.R.R. Tolkien from The Lost Road and Other Writings. The standard title for such a section on Tolkien Gateway is Other versions of the legendarium. The standards of Tolkien Gateway require to make all reasonable efforts to include page numbers if you use books from The History of Middle-earth series, such as The Lost Road and Other Writings. Lorenzo and I corrected your errors. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 10:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Southward Road ==<br />
The standards of Tolkien Gateway require to make all reasonable efforts to include page numbers if you use The Lord of the Rings or books from The History of Middle-earth series, such as The War of the Ring as references. You used both sources in your edit on this page and did not include any page numbers. The reference to The War of the Ring was not necessary, because The Lord of the Rings already contains this information. The implied statement that the Southward Road merged into the Harad Road is a speculation that you did not disclose as being a speculation. In addition, you could have made more research about the names that J.R.R. Tolkien used for various parts on his maps and could have found the existing page about the Harad Road. I corrected your errors. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 10:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Éowyn ==<br />
The standard on other pages about people from Rohan for the name of the language in infoboxes is Rohirric. J.R.R. Tolkien used the name Rohan for the language and not the name Rohanese that you used in the infobox. He used Rohanese once, but it is not clear if its use in that context was intended as the name of the language or just an adjective. Do not change Rohirric before discussing the topic on Talk pages. You created a title for a section called "Other versions" with information from manuscripts of J.R.R. Tolkien from TI. The standard title for such a section on Tolkien Gateway is Other versions of the legendarium. The standards of Tolkien Gateway require to make all reasonable efforts to include page numbers if you use books from The History of Middle-earth series, such as The Treason of Isengard. I corrected your errors. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 10:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Idis, Helm, Helm's daughter ==<br />
Again the same issued here with the name of the language in the infobox and with missing page numbers. In addition, there was an implied speculation on the Helm's daughter page that Helm hit Freca only because he asked for the hand of Helm's daughter for his son Wulf. You did not explain that Freca insulted and threatened Helm before Helm hit him. I corrected those pages. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 11:24, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Edits to the Bor (Taliska) and Angbor (stone) pages ==<br />
I reviewed your edits on the Bor (Taliska) and Angbor (stone) pages. Your edits did not include any reference for the changes that you made. The Tolkien Gateyway Manual of Style and Help:References require references and require references with page numbers if you want to include information from The War of the Jewels. The fact that the Angbor (stone) page did not have a reference using a template and did not have a reference with page numbers does not make the edit any better. Your edits create additional work for other users to review and correct your edits by adding missing references. Please do not edit unless you make and edit with proper references. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 12:34, 19 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I was going to add references to the bor (Taliska) page. I made one edit on that page intending to do a reference edit immediately after, but something unforeseen came up in real life that I had to see to which could not wait. I was intending to make that reference edit literally now, but you beat me to it. As for the Angbor (stone) page, my last edit on that page was months ago in April, at a time before I grew familiar with the wiki policies over this past summer.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 20:25, 19 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Question ==<br />
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Hello. Should the page ''Amazon.com Incorporated'' retitled to ''Amazon (company)''?I am saying that beacause on Wikipedia the page of this company is titled ''Amazon (company)'' and not ''Amazon.com Incorporated''.Should this be discussed with other uses and administrators of Tolkien Gateway or not? [[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] 20:40, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Wikipedia has multiple pages unrelated to the Amazon company that has the name Amazon in it. They have to have company in parentheses because they need pages to be simplified. I figured that since there won’t be any confusion on here, it should be the actual company name.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 21:08, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
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:I am sorry but I don't understand.What do you mean? [[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] 21:13, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
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::Btw, we don't need so many separated articles for Amazon and its branches. I'd say only Amazon Studios is enough. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] ([[User talk:LorenzoCB|talk]]) 21:15, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree, though maybe Amazon.com Incorporated should be kept instead of Amazon Studios, as they are the main branch.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 21:19, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power ==<br />
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Hello.I would like to ask you something.Why did you reversed the edits that I did on the page The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power? I think this page needs a tidying up on the Content External Links.Some websites need to be removed, because they are unessecary.Do you understand what I am saying? ----[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]], 12.22, 2 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Some things mentioned in the articles are not mentioned in the show or are not clear in the show.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 17:45, 2 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Moving pages==<br />
Hi Dour1234. Regarding your recent moving of the page "Phil LaMarr" to "Phillip LaMarr", it might be a good idea to discuss moving pages in the talk page before going ahead. From what I've seen in the past (and a quick google), this actor tends to be credited by the first name "Phil". Although somewhat inconsequential for this relatively minor page on TG, I'd urge you to discuss via the talk page before moving articles in the future. Thank you. --[[User:GondolinFan|GondolinFan]] ([[User talk:GondolinFan|talk]]) 23:03, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power title card opening ==<br />
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Hello.I would like to ask you something.Why did you change the main image that I put on page The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power?I put it because it is the title opening card for each episode of The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power series.Do you understand what I am saying? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] [[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]], 02.40, 03 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, I reverted your edit because the title card opening does not reflect the show as a whole. As I explained in my edit summary, it only appears within episodes two through eight and does not appear in episode one and any of the extra content, primarily because it does not appear in episode one.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 06:05, 3 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Moving images ==<br />
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I would like to ask you something.Why do you change the name of the images that I uploaded and are related to The Lord of the Rings The Rings of Power series? I think that all the names of these images that you changed and I uploaded and I named it are fine.So, there is nothing wrong.You didn't have to do all these changes in those images that you did today.Do you understand what I am saying? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 22:08, 04 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Back ==<br />
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Hello.Welcome back here, on Tolkien Gateway. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 13:54, 17 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Images Numenor ==<br />
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Hello.I think that you didn't have to do all these things you did on the images that I just upoladed. Anyway, I have no problem with you, in order for you to know.I am not trying to offend you. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 00:04, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The reason why I changed the name of the image of the citadel of [[Armenelos]] was because the name of that place is the [[King's Court]]. As such, having the name of the image be the name of what it depicts is better in my opinion than having the name be a generic name. The reason why I changed the image that you called the harbour of [[Númenor]] was because Númenor does not just have one harbour and one city. Despite my issue with those two names, the images that you upload are very good. Speaking of which, I had previously posted a question on your [[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου#Question|talk page]].[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 01:44, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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::Hello.I just read your message that you wrote to me on my talk page and I would like to say to you that I haven't found any image of the exterior of Hall of Lore.As of any image of the exterior of the King's Tower I haven't searched it yet, if you want to know. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 21:37, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::There actually is a shot of the exterior of the [[Hall of Lore]] before the interior is shown. It is shown in a wide shot for a few moments from two angles when Captain Elendil and Galadriel are just riding up to the overhang that it lies upon. There are also some shots of it in the behind the scenes video for that episode, which is six minutes long, so it would likely be easier to find the shots that I am referring to in there. However, the best shot in my opinion is at the absolute beginning of Scene 29 and the time stamp is at 29:50/39:32. You would know that it is the right shot if the subtitles are just beginning to bleed the sound of "hammering" from the next shot. As for the [[King's Tower]], there are multiple great exterior shots of it. In fact, in episode three, there is a night shot of it in the "Episode Stills" section of the "Bonus Content" tab of the X-ray feature that can be accessed within the episode. It is not centered, but perhaps you could go to that shot where the time stamp is at 57:33 just immediately before it cuts to Miriel walking up the stairs of the tower. There may be better shots of it, but this is a start. On a side note, when you upload the images to the wiki, I do think that they should be called "Hall of Lore" and "King's Tower" respectively. In addition, I just found a shot of the [[Watchtower of Ostirith]] that may be better than the current one. It is in episode four and the time stamp is 18:58/52:45. It shows the Watchtower from the other side, which includes not only the tower and the top bridge, but also the pathway carved into the two hills and the two bridges “below” the top bridge. Perhaps the current image of it could be replaced by the shot I just mentioned as there is only room on the [[Watchtower of Ostirith]] page for one image. There is also a concept art section on the X-Ray feature. Those should perhaps be on the wiki as well. I hope that all of this helps. Thanks.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 23:37, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Images ==<br />
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Hello and happy new year to you. You did good job for uploading these images you uploaded today, and for all of these editings but be careful, not to be blogged again from TG by LorenzoCB or by any other administrator of TG.I am just warning for you in order for the worse for you to be prevented.Nothing more. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 21:39, 1 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power plot ==<br />
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Hello. I would like to ask you something. Have you seen episodes 6 - 8 (six to eight, I mean)? I am asking that because if you did, then add informations about the plot and about the differences that all of these episodes have from Tolkiem's books. So, what do you think? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 22:59, 5 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
:I have seen those episodes, but I would prefer editing and revising it once someone does add that information in. However, if I must, then I will add in that information.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 23:04, 5 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== No problem ==<br />
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Hello user Dour1234.OK. No problem.In this case, the result is the same. The page still exists, albelt in other name. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 14:52, 28 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Help ==<br />
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Hello user Dour1234.Can you help me in editing the template:films that I just edited? I don't know what to do I think you understand my intentions about this template that I just edited.Don't you? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 00:35, 31 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Elros (Mirkwood guard) ==<br />
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Hi! I've seen your changes to the Elros (Mirkwood guard) page and the new links you put on the pages for the two radio series where the character appears. However, currently both of those links are redlinks, because you linked to "Chief of the guards" and not Elros. Was that on purpose? Also, just in general, should the Elros page be moved, now that it's not chiefly about the movie character anymore? Or were you already planning on doing that? Regards, [[User:Adunoeth|Adunoeth]] ([[User talk:Adunoeth|talk]]) 16:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)<br />
:The redlinks were an oversight on my part. Thanks for bringing them to my attention. I will change the links to go to the proper page. As for moving the current page, I have no plans on making a move proposal as the name of the page itself does not matter and I see nothing wrong with the current name since it is still a name that was given to the character and the name is still mentioned in the Portrayal in adaptations section, so the name truly is “accurate” in a way. All that matters is the content of the page. However, if you want to make a proposal to the “[[Authorities]]” (this is a joke), or to the admins of the site, or to the [[User:Hyarion|site-creator]], go on ahead, but do not mention me because I am not going to make such a proposal myself because the current name is fine in my opinion.<br />
:If you can find any information on the character in LOTRO, could you possibly add it to the page? I am having no luck in finding such information. [[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 00:38, 9 February 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Oliphaunts]] ==<br />
Hello,<br />
Considerations about their size can be an indication of whether they are elephants or distinct animals resembling elephants. Sorry for "unsourced statements" but how to source something which can be seen in a movie? It seems somewhat difficult.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/172.71.122.201|172.71.122.201]] 19:12, 20 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
:I reverted your edit because what you stated is already said in the “Portrayal in adaptations” section on the page.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 19:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
::Yes you're right. I displaced it in the right section. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.122.92|172.71.122.92]] 19:33, 20 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Eye of Sauron ==<br />
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Hello.There was no reason to do what you did on the page The Eye of Sauron, and I am referring to the fact that you reduced the images of the Eye of Sauron in adaptations. Just pit it according to the right timeline of the first appearence. OK? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 15:41, 06 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Ancestry of Aragorn ==<br />
Are you planning to extend the family tree of Aragorn because there are a lot more members and its a bit complicated?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 07:14, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
:I am presuming that you are talking about my sandbox page on the [[User:Dour1234/Ancestry of Eldarion|ancestry of Eldarion]]? I underestimated how complex it was and I have been at a loss for a while now on how to literally put it all down with every single possible member listed, but mentioned only once on the page. Despite it being a user page, feel free to add to it. My goal for that user page is for it to have every connection possible, even unnamed characters (so not every name has to have a link).[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 17:52, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::I would love to do it, but the problem is if we start we'll have to connect all the members of House of Hador, House of Haleth, House of Beor, House of Finwe, Kinfolk of Thingol and many more to Elros, I tried it but sadly i think it's not possible. Have you tried an external editor? --[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:28, 25 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
:::I have not tried an external editor (though I do not know what you mean by that). I do believe it would be very beneficial to see how far into completion such a genealogical tree can get before it becomes impossible to continue, no matter how convoluted and complecated the layout could get.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 20:04, 25 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::::Okay, let's see what I can do. I hope you don't mind me editing your sandbox.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:02, 26 May 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Shivam&diff=373954User talk:Shivam2023-05-25T15:09:19Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy Template */</p>
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<div>{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Shivam}}<br />
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-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 07:58, 5 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Blanking of the Aragorn page ==<br />
Blanking of pages is destructive and not constructive. Vandalism will not be tolerated and destructive edits will be reverted. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 14:52, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm sorry, it was an accident.--Shivam 15:01, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It's alright if you make a mistake. I've seen various users accidentally blank pages before. Just be sure to undo something if you mess up so there's no actual damage. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 17:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:::Yep, I correted it.--Shivam 01:48, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Editing of the parentage of Aragorn and of the quote ==<br />
Thank you for your interest in the Tolkien Gateway and for wanting to spend time to contribute to its contents. I recommend that you study the structure and formatting in other pages before you decide if something should be changed so that the structure and formatting are consistent. I also recommend to use the Show preview button and to check if your edits contain any typographical errors or omissions. If you Look at the pages for Elrond and Elros, you will see that it is customary that the roles of the parents (e.g. father, mother, foster father are mentioned after the name of the parent or foster parent after a comma). If you look at the Elrond or Gandalf pages, you will see that it is customary that quotes from LOTR are not in bold (they are not the most important element in a page). If you look at your edit, you will see that there was a typographical error and that a character was missing in foster father. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 08:28, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:Ok, I am again sorry I will correct it. Thank you for the advice.--Shivam 12:42, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== For signature ==<br />
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Can anyone tell how to create my own signature. I tried using the syntax given in [[Help:Signatures|Signatures]] page but I am not able to link my [[User:Shivam|page]] to the signature. Please help.--Shivam 12:47, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:When you edit a page there is a box that starts with "Insert:" below the box that starts with "Summary:". Click in the last symbol in the Insert box that looks like two minuses and four snakes (tildes). This Symbol will automatically create your signature with the date and time of the edit when you preview or Save the edit. Only use the signature on talk pages or in forum pages. Edits on normal pages are not Sohnes, but in the HISTORY of a page people can see which user made which change. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 16:14, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::Thanks.--Shivam 01:40, 10 April 2021 (UTC) See my Username does not act like a link to my [[User:Shivam|page]].<br />
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::Please someone help me how to make my signature. Everytime I sing a page and save it my sign does not act as a link to my user page.--Shivam 12:49, 15 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
::See it appears only as a text.<br />
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:::Just add this to the end of your text: ~,~,~,~. (I added commas because if I write the tildes uninterrupted they form a signature - namely mine. Simply write it the same way I wrote it, at the end of the sentence, without the "," sign.) [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 15:23, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::Okay I'll try. Shivam 15:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::Nope, it's still not working.--Shivam 15:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:::::When you edit a page then you see a box below that starts with 'Insert:' follower by a list of special characters. At the end you can click on a sequence that starts with two minuses and then four of those waves to insert this sequence, which will transform into your username with the date and time of the edit after you click on Show preview or on Save page. --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.103.196|188.114.103.196]] 16:08, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::::The last two edits I did, I tried both IvarTheBoneless' and your method but no improvement still I am going to try it again.--Shivam 16:37, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Calimehtar (son of Calmacil) ==<br />
I appreciate that you take an interest in the articles on Tolkien Gateway and that you want to correct things that you pereceive as mistakes. If you look at the title of the line in the infobox, which says "Children" and if you look how it is used for other persons, you can deduce that the persons that stand to the right of "Children" are the children or the grandchildren and that male grandchildren are identified by adding "grandson". Castamir was the grandson of Calimehtar and not the grandfather of Calimehtar. If the title of the line in the infobox says "Patentage" then the persons that stand to the right are the parents and if the parents are not known and only the grandfather is known then grandfather is added before the name of the grandfather. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 12:22, 17 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I forgot to write 'of' before [[Castamir]]. I will keep this in mind.--Shivam 06:20, 18 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Genealogy Template ==<br />
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Thanks for your help on the Genealogy sections! To be honest, I think I like the white background that doesn't have a scroll bar when it's not needed better. What are your thoughts? I'm thinking it might be a good idea to actually remove any CSS from the articles and add it to the template so everything can be consistent and more straight-forward. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 22:31, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:I would also have preferred that but I did it because there were irregularities, many pages had it and many didn't. About the scroll-bar thing, I tried removing the horizontal scroll bar and keeping the dark background, but it didn't work. And yes adding it to the template would be great, no more irregularities I hope.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:38, 25 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:Is the Ondoher's genealogy section okay or should I change the background too?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 14:45, 25 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::For me personally, the gray background makes it seem like something is broken or off, I prefer the white one that makes the content look seamless. When that CSS is added, scrollbars appear when they aren't needed, but when we remove the CSS, the scrollbars will still appear when necessary, so I'm not sure I see the need. I've removed the CSS from the [[Ondoher]] article, do you prefer the gray background? I'm flexible, but I think either way we should remove all the div tags for the family trees and apply one standard within the template itself.<br />
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:::Yes, I prefer the grey background because I would like the genealogy section to be eye-catching even though it does look different from the entire article. I feel not many people are interested in this discussion, it's just two of us. About the change in template, it sounds a great idea but I have a doubt, after it's done we'll have to change every page or this will be automatic because I don't know much about editing templates?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 15:09, 25 May 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Shivam&diff=373951User talk:Shivam2023-05-25T14:45:39Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy Template */</p>
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<div>{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Shivam}}<br />
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-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 07:58, 5 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Blanking of the Aragorn page ==<br />
Blanking of pages is destructive and not constructive. Vandalism will not be tolerated and destructive edits will be reverted. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 14:52, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm sorry, it was an accident.--Shivam 15:01, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It's alright if you make a mistake. I've seen various users accidentally blank pages before. Just be sure to undo something if you mess up so there's no actual damage. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 17:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:::Yep, I correted it.--Shivam 01:48, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Editing of the parentage of Aragorn and of the quote ==<br />
Thank you for your interest in the Tolkien Gateway and for wanting to spend time to contribute to its contents. I recommend that you study the structure and formatting in other pages before you decide if something should be changed so that the structure and formatting are consistent. I also recommend to use the Show preview button and to check if your edits contain any typographical errors or omissions. If you Look at the pages for Elrond and Elros, you will see that it is customary that the roles of the parents (e.g. father, mother, foster father are mentioned after the name of the parent or foster parent after a comma). If you look at the Elrond or Gandalf pages, you will see that it is customary that quotes from LOTR are not in bold (they are not the most important element in a page). If you look at your edit, you will see that there was a typographical error and that a character was missing in foster father. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 08:28, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:Ok, I am again sorry I will correct it. Thank you for the advice.--Shivam 12:42, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== For signature ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone tell how to create my own signature. I tried using the syntax given in [[Help:Signatures|Signatures]] page but I am not able to link my [[User:Shivam|page]] to the signature. Please help.--Shivam 12:47, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:When you edit a page there is a box that starts with "Insert:" below the box that starts with "Summary:". Click in the last symbol in the Insert box that looks like two minuses and four snakes (tildes). This Symbol will automatically create your signature with the date and time of the edit when you preview or Save the edit. Only use the signature on talk pages or in forum pages. Edits on normal pages are not Sohnes, but in the HISTORY of a page people can see which user made which change. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 16:14, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::Thanks.--Shivam 01:40, 10 April 2021 (UTC) See my Username does not act like a link to my [[User:Shivam|page]].<br />
<br />
::Please someone help me how to make my signature. Everytime I sing a page and save it my sign does not act as a link to my user page.--Shivam 12:49, 15 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
::See it appears only as a text.<br />
<br />
:::Just add this to the end of your text: ~,~,~,~. (I added commas because if I write the tildes uninterrupted they form a signature - namely mine. Simply write it the same way I wrote it, at the end of the sentence, without the "," sign.) [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 15:23, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::Okay I'll try. Shivam 15:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Nope, it's still not working.--Shivam 15:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::When you edit a page then you see a box below that starts with 'Insert:' follower by a list of special characters. At the end you can click on a sequence that starts with two minuses and then four of those waves to insert this sequence, which will transform into your username with the date and time of the edit after you click on Show preview or on Save page. --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.103.196|188.114.103.196]] 16:08, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::::The last two edits I did, I tried both IvarTheBoneless' and your method but no improvement still I am going to try it again.--Shivam 16:37, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Calimehtar (son of Calmacil) ==<br />
I appreciate that you take an interest in the articles on Tolkien Gateway and that you want to correct things that you pereceive as mistakes. If you look at the title of the line in the infobox, which says "Children" and if you look how it is used for other persons, you can deduce that the persons that stand to the right of "Children" are the children or the grandchildren and that male grandchildren are identified by adding "grandson". Castamir was the grandson of Calimehtar and not the grandfather of Calimehtar. If the title of the line in the infobox says "Patentage" then the persons that stand to the right are the parents and if the parents are not known and only the grandfather is known then grandfather is added before the name of the grandfather. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 12:22, 17 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I forgot to write 'of' before [[Castamir]]. I will keep this in mind.--Shivam 06:20, 18 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Genealogy Template ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for your help on the Genealogy sections! To be honest, I think I like the white background that doesn't have a scroll bar when it's not needed better. What are your thoughts? I'm thinking it might be a good idea to actually remove any CSS from the articles and add it to the template so everything can be consistent and more straight-forward. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 22:31, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:I would also have preferred that but I did it because there were irregularities, many pages had it and many didn't. About the scroll-bar thing, I tried removing the horizontal scroll bar and keeping the dark background, but it didn't work. And yes adding it to the template would be great, no more irregularities I hope.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:38, 25 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:Is the Ondoher's genealogy section okay or should I change the background too?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 14:45, 25 May 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ondoher&diff=373950Ondoher2023-05-25T14:42:59Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Ondoher<br />
| image=[[File:Jack Dullahan - The fall of King Ondoher.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="The fall of King Ondoher" by [[:Category:Images by Jack Dullahan|Jack Dullahan]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1787}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1936}} - {{TA|1944|n}} (8 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1944}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Disaster of the Morannon]]<br />
| age=157<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br />
| siblings=Unnamed sister<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Artamir]], [[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]] and [[Fíriel]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Ondoher''' ({{TA|1787}}<ref name="Elendil">{{PM|Elendil}}</ref> – {{TA|1944|n}},<ref name="South">{{App|South}}</ref> aged 157 years) was the thirty-first [[King of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Renewing Old Ties===<br />
Ondoher became King in {{TA|1936}} upon the death of his father, [[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]].<ref name="South"/> During his reign, and that of [[Araphant]] of [[Arthedain]], the long-estranged kingdoms of the [[Dúnedain]] took counsel again, for they finally perceived that some single will and power was coordinating the multiple assaults upon their kingdoms. In a sign of their renewed relationship, Ondoher's daughter [[Fíriel]] married Prince [[Arvedui]] of [[Arthedain]] in {{TA|1940|n}}.<ref name="Gondor">{{App|Gondor}}</ref><br />
<br />
However, neither kingdom could aid the other when new evils set upon them - in the North [[Angmar]] attacked Arthedain while in the South the [[Wainriders]] struck in great force. Ondoher was not taken unaware by the renewed assault for [[Forthwini]] of [[Éothéod]] had informed the King that the Wainriders had recovered from their fears and weaknesses. Ondoher also learned that Gondor's southern enemies were preparing to attack. He raised as great an army as he could to meet the double threat.<br />
<br />
Ondoher divided his strength into two armies, assigning the smaller [[Southern Army]] to [[Eärnil II|Eärnil]], a member of the Royal House descended from King [[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]. This army was based at [[Pelargir]] while Ondoher took command of the larger [[Northern Army]] himself, which included his elder son [[Artamir]]. This arrangement was acceptable provided that an undisputed heir to the throne was left behind, in this case Ondoher's younger son, [[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]].<br />
<br />
===The Deaths of Ondoher and His Sons===<br />
In {{TA|1944}} the enemies of [[Gondor]] made a double assault: First the [[Haradrim]] invaded from the south and then a few days later word came of the [[Wainriders]] invading from the east. While Ëarnil moved to deal with the southern incursion the northern army headed north through [[Ithilien]], planning to deploy upon the [[Dagorlad]]. Unfortunately, the Wainriders moved faster than expected along the outskirts of the [[Ered Lithui]] and struck the head of Gondor's army before any defensive dispositions had been made. Swiftly the enemy's chariots and horsemen overwhelmed the King's Guard, killing both Ondoher and Artamir at the [[Disaster of the Morannon]].<br />
<br />
King Ondoher's sister-son, [[Minohtar]] attempted to stem the onslaught of the Wainriders. During the rout the [[leader of the Éothéod]] brought to Minohtar the body of Faramir, who had disguised himself in order to fight with a party of the Éothéod. Soon Minohtar himself was slain as the enemy poured into northern Ithilien.<br />
<br />
==Selecting the Next King==<br />
The suddenness of their victory was the Wainriders' undoing. Unbeknownst to them Eärnil had crushed the [[Haradrim]] and was racing north to aid the northern army. His attack upon the feasting Wainriders, later known as the [[Battle of the Camp]], defeated the Wainriders and sent them reeling back into the East.<ref>{{UT|Northmen}}</ref><br />
<br />
With King Ondoher and both of his male heirs dead, Arvedui of Arthedain sought the throne of Gondor. Arvedui put forth two arguments in support of his claim: First, he was the direct descendant of [[Isildur]], whom Arvedui said had never relinquished his royalty in Gondor. Second, his wife [[Fíriel]] was King Ondoher's daughter and by the ancient [[Númenóreans|Númenórean]] law the sceptre should have been hers. But Arvedui's claim was rejected by the Steward [[Pelendur]] and the Council of Gondor. The crown was granted to the victorious general Eärnil, of the royal [[House of Anárion]] who took the crown as King [[Eärnil II]].<ref name="Gondor"/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
Ondoher is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains, it means "Stone Lord" and is a compound of [[ondo]] ("stone") and ''[[heru|hér]]'' ("lord")<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-1359985459.html|articlename=Q. ''Ondoher'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref>, in reference to Gondor, the "Stone Land".<br />
<br />
The name "Ondoher" was spelled as ''Ondohir'' in early manuscripts, changed to ''Ondonir'' in a later manuscript, reverted to ''Ondohir'' in the first edition of ''[[The Return of the King]]'', and finally became ''Ondoher'' in the second edition.<ref name="Elendil"/><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | TEL | | | | | | | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | NAR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | CAL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CAM |CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | OND | | | | | | ARN | | DAU | | SIR |OND='''ONDOHER'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|ARN=[[Kings of Arnor|''Kings of<br/>Arnor'']]|DAU=''daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |:| | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ART | | FAR | | FIR |y| ARV | | MIN | | EAR |ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FIR=[[Fíriel]]<br/><small>''b. {{TA|1896|n}}''</small>|ARV=[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1864|n}} - {{TA|1975|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|EAR=[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1883|n}} - {{TA|2043|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | ARA | | | | | | | | EAR |ARA=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1938|n}} - {{TA|2106|n}}''</small>|EAR=[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1928|n}} - {{TA|2050|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1787}}<br />
| died={{TA|1944}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br />
| list=31st [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1936}} - {{TA|1944|n}}<br />
| nvac=Vacant<br />
| next=Next held by:<br/>[[Eärnil II|Eärnil&nbsp;II]],&nbsp;1&nbsp;year&nbsp;later<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Ondoher]]<br />
[[fi:Ondoher]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/ondoher]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Tolkien_Family&diff=373938Tolkien Family2023-05-25T07:01:23Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{stub}}<br />
The '''Tolkien Family''' is a family of Saxon descent, arriving in England six generations before [[J.R.R. Tolkien]].<br />
<br />
The name “Tolkien” (pron.: Tol-keen; equal stress on both syllables) is believed to be of German origin; Toll-kühn: foolishly brave, or stupidly clever . <br />
<br />
==Origins==<br />
The Tolkien family originated in the [[wikipedia:East Prussia|East Prussian]] town Kreuzburg near [[wikipedia:Königsberg|Königsberg]], where the Tolkien name is attested since the 16th century. The verified paternal line of J. R. R. Tolkien starts with '''Michel Tolkien''', who was born around 1620 in Kreuzburg. Michel's son '''Christianus Tolkien''' (1663-1746) was a wealthy miller in Kreuzburg. His son '''Christian Tolkien''' (1706-1791) moved from Kreuzburg to nearby [[wikipedia:Gdańsk|Danzig]], and his two sons Daniel Gottlieb Tolkien (1747-1813) and '''[[John Benjamin Tolkien (George's father)|Johann (later known as John) Benjamin Tolkien]]''' (1752-1819) emigrated to London in the 1770s, and became the ancestors of the English family. The family first appears in English records in 1777. In 1792 John Benjamin Tolkien and William Gravell took over the Erdley Norton manufacture in London, which from then on sold clocks and watches under the name ''Gravell & Tolkien''. Daniel Gottlieb obtained British citizenship in 1794, but John Benjamin apparently never became a British citizen. Their German nephew Daniel Gottlieb Bergmann also joined them in London. Johann (John) Benjamin Tolkien, who died in London in 1819, had a son named '''[[George Tolkien]]''', who was the grandfather of '''[[Arthur Tolkien]]''', J. R. R. Tolkien's own father.<br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}{{familytree|boxstyle=background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | JOS |y| EMI | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | JOB |y| MAR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |JOS=John Suffield Jr<br/><small>''1833-1930''</small>|EMI=Emily Jane Sparrow|JOB=[[John Benjamin Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1807-1896''</small>|MAR=Mary Jane Stowe}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|^|v|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | |}}{{familytree|boxstyle=background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | WAL |y| EDI | | JAN | | WIL |~| BEA | | MAB |y| ART | | FLO |~| TOH | | GRA |~| WIM | | MAT |~| TOM | | WIT | | LAU | |WAL=Walter Incledon|EDI=Edith Mary (''May'') Suffield<br/><small>''1865-1936''</small>|JAN=[[Jane Neave|Jane Suffield]]<br/><small>''1872-1963''</small>|WIL=William Suffield<br/><small>''1874-1904''</small>|BEA=Beatrice Bartlett|MAB=[[Mabel Suffield]]<br/><small>''1870-1904''</small>|ART=[[Arthur Tolkien|Arthur Reuel Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1857-1896''</small>|FLO=Florence Mary Tolkien<br/><small>''1863-1944''</small>|TOH=Tom Hadley|GRA=Grace Bindley Tolkien<br/><small>''1861-1947''</small>|WIM=William Mountain|MAT=Mabel Tolkien<br/><small>''1858-1937''</small>|TOM=Thomas Mitton|WIT=Wilfred Tolkien<br/><small>''1870-1938''</small>|LAU=Laurence George H. Tolkien<br/><small>''1873-''</small>}}{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree|boxstyle=background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | MAJ | | MAR | | | | | | | EDI |y| JOH | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | HIL |y| MAG | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |MAJ=Marjorie Incledon<br/><small>''1891-1973''</small>|MAR=Mary Incledon<br/><small>''1895-1940''</small>|EDI=[[Edith Tolkien|Edith Bratt]]<br/><small>''1889-1971''</small>|JOH='''[[J.R.R. Tolkien|John Ronald Reuel Tolkien]]'''<br/><small>''1892-1973''</small>|HIL=[[Hilary Tolkien|Hilary Arthur Reuel Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1894-1976''</small>|MAG=Magdalen Matthews}}{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree|boxstyle=background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | JOH | | | | JOA |y| MIC | | | | | | | | FAI |y| CHR |y| BAI | | PRI | | | JUN |y| GAB | | | | | | JUL |y| GLY | | PAU |y| ANN | | |JOA=Joan Griffiths<br/><small>''1916-1982''</small>|MIC=[[Michael Tolkien|Michael Hilary Reuel Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1920-1984''</small>|JOH=[[John Tolkien|John Francis Reuel Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1917-2003''</small>|PRI=[[Priscilla Tolkien|Priscilla Anne Reuel Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1929-2022''</small>|FAI=[[Faith Faulconbridge]]<br/><small>''1928-2017''</small>|CHR='''[[Christopher Tolkien|Christopher John Reuel Tolkien]]'''<br/><small>''1924-2020''</small>|BAI=[[Baillie Tolkien|Baillie Klass]]<br/><small>''1941-''</small>|JUN=Lilian June Icke|GAB=Gabriel Tolkien<br/><small>''1931-''</small>|JUL=[[Julian Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1935-''</small>|GLY=Glynis Read|PAU=Paul Tolkien<br/><small>''1938-''</small>|ANN=Annie May McConnell}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |)|-|-|-|.| | | | |,|-|-|-|(| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |)|-|-|-|.| |}}{{familytree|boxstyle=background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | MIC | | | | | | HUG |y| JOA | | JUD |y| ALA | | TRA |y| SIM | | ADA | | RAC | | | | ANG | | CHR | | SUE |~| TIM | | NIC | | STE | | DOM | | ZOE |MIC=[[Michael George Tolkien|Michael Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1943-''</small>|HUG=Hugh Baker|JOA=Joanna Tolkien<br/><small>''1945-''</small>|JUD=Judith Tolkien<br/><small>''1951-''</small>|ALA=Alan Crombleholme|TRA=Tracy Sternberg|SIM=[[Simon Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1959-''</small>|ADA=[[Adam Tolkien|Adam Reuel Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1969-''</small>|RAC=[[Rachel Tolkien|Rachel Clare Reuel Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1971-''</small>|ANG=Angela Tolkien<br/><small>''1954-''</small>|CHR=Christopher Tolkien<br/><small>''1961-''</small>|SUE=Susan Goodger|TIM=[[Tim Tolkien|Timothy Tolkien]]<br/><small>''1962-''</small>|NIC=Nicholas Tolkien<br/><small>''1964-''</small>|STE=Stephen Tolkien<br/><small>''1966-''</small>|DOM=Dominic Tolkien<br/><small>''1974-''</small>|ZOE=Zoë Tolkien<br/><small>''1977-''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |)|-|-|-|.| | | |)|-|-|-|.| | |!| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree|boxstyle=background-color:#FFFFFF;| | CAT | | RUT | | MAN | | ROY | | MIC | | FRE | | PIE | | NIC || ANA | | DIM | | SAM | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CAT=Catherine Tolkien<br/><small>''1969-''</small>|RUT=Ruth Tolkien<br/><small>''1982-''</small>|MAN=Mandy<br/><small>''1967-''</small>|ROY=[[Royd Tolkien|Royd]]<br/><small>''1969-''</small>|MIC=Michael<br/><small>''1975-2015''</small>|FRE=Freya Crombleholme<br/><small>''1976-''</small>|PIE=Piers Crombleholme<br/><small>''1979-''</small>|NIC=Nicholas Tolkien<br/><small>''1990-''</small>|ANA=Anna Tolkien<br/><small>''2005-''</small>|DIM=Dimitri Tolkien-Paillet<br/><small>''2005-''</small>|SAM=Samuel<br/><small>''2006-''</small>}}{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[http://lingwe.blogspot.com.br/2007/11/new-thoughts-on-etymology-of-tolkien.html Etymology of 'Tolkien']<br />
*[[The Tolkien Family Album]]<br />
*[http://www.hammondandscull.com/addenda/Tolkien%20family%20trees%20rev%200310.pdf Tolkien Family Trees]<br />
*[http://www.elendilion.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/TolkienAncestry.pdf On J.R.R. Tolkien's roots in Gdańsk], by [[Ryszard Derdziński]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Tolkien Family| ]]<br />
[[de:J._R._R._Tolkien#Stammbaum]]<br />
[[fr:tolkien/bio/famille tolkien]]<br />
[[fi:Tolkien]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Minastan&diff=373937Minastan2023-05-25T06:44:35Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Minastan<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth=After {{TA|1516}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Minardil]]<br />
| siblings=[[Telemnar]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Minastan''' was the second son of King [[Minardil]] of [[Gondor]]. <br />
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==History==<br />
In {{TA|1636}}<ref>{{App|TA}}</ref> Minastan's elder brother [[Telemnar]] had sat on their father's throne for just two years when he died with all his heirs in the [[Great Plague]].<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref> Minastan had also died by this time - perhaps he too met his end in the Plague - but he left behind a surviving heir, [[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]], who became the first King of a new line.<ref>{{App|South}}</ref><br />
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==Etymology==<br />
''Minastan'' is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains, it might mean "Smith of the Tower" and be a compound of a shortened form ''minas'' of [[minasse]] ("tower") and the suffixal form ''-tan'' of [[tamo]] ("smith, builder").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-96627655.html|articlename=Q. ''Minastan'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
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== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | HYA | | |HYA=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1621|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | MIN | | |MIN=[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1454|n}} - {{TA|1634|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | TEL | | MIN |TEL=[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1516|n}} - {{TA|1636|n}}''†</small>|MIN='''MINASTAN'''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | CHI | | TAR |CHI=''children''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>|TAR=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1577|n}} - {{TA|1798|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | TEL |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
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{{references}}<br />
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[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Minastan]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/minastan]]<br />
[[fi:Minastan]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Curumo&diff=373923Talk:Curumo2023-05-25T01:42:19Z<p>Shivam: </p>
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<div>I think all the content of this page is already there on the Saruman page, so what to do with this one?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 14:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:I'm in favor of keeping this article and replacing the content on Saruman with a link here. We have quite a few articles for other [[:Category:Quenya_names|Quenya names]] and the Saruman article is already fairly long, especially on mobile. I think from the visitor's perspective, if they search Google or TG for a particular Quenya word, it's a better experience to be taken directly to the article for the word, as long as the article makes it obvious who the main character is. That being said it looks like [[Mithrandir]] and [[Olorin]] were merged into [[Gandalf/Names]] so there is not a 100% consensus yet. There is still a bit of expansion needed for this article, for instance I'd like to see a pronunciation audio file added. That's just my thoughts though. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 14:47, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::Okay, If we are keeping it, it needs more detail. Where do we get the pronunciation audio file?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:42, 25 May 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Shivam&diff=373921User talk:Shivam2023-05-25T01:38:40Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy Template */</p>
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<div>{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Shivam}}<br />
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-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 07:58, 5 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Blanking of the Aragorn page ==<br />
Blanking of pages is destructive and not constructive. Vandalism will not be tolerated and destructive edits will be reverted. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 14:52, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm sorry, it was an accident.--Shivam 15:01, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It's alright if you make a mistake. I've seen various users accidentally blank pages before. Just be sure to undo something if you mess up so there's no actual damage. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 17:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:::Yep, I correted it.--Shivam 01:48, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Editing of the parentage of Aragorn and of the quote ==<br />
Thank you for your interest in the Tolkien Gateway and for wanting to spend time to contribute to its contents. I recommend that you study the structure and formatting in other pages before you decide if something should be changed so that the structure and formatting are consistent. I also recommend to use the Show preview button and to check if your edits contain any typographical errors or omissions. If you Look at the pages for Elrond and Elros, you will see that it is customary that the roles of the parents (e.g. father, mother, foster father are mentioned after the name of the parent or foster parent after a comma). If you look at the Elrond or Gandalf pages, you will see that it is customary that quotes from LOTR are not in bold (they are not the most important element in a page). If you look at your edit, you will see that there was a typographical error and that a character was missing in foster father. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 08:28, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:Ok, I am again sorry I will correct it. Thank you for the advice.--Shivam 12:42, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== For signature ==<br />
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Can anyone tell how to create my own signature. I tried using the syntax given in [[Help:Signatures|Signatures]] page but I am not able to link my [[User:Shivam|page]] to the signature. Please help.--Shivam 12:47, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:When you edit a page there is a box that starts with "Insert:" below the box that starts with "Summary:". Click in the last symbol in the Insert box that looks like two minuses and four snakes (tildes). This Symbol will automatically create your signature with the date and time of the edit when you preview or Save the edit. Only use the signature on talk pages or in forum pages. Edits on normal pages are not Sohnes, but in the HISTORY of a page people can see which user made which change. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 16:14, 9 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::Thanks.--Shivam 01:40, 10 April 2021 (UTC) See my Username does not act like a link to my [[User:Shivam|page]].<br />
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::Please someone help me how to make my signature. Everytime I sing a page and save it my sign does not act as a link to my user page.--Shivam 12:49, 15 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
::See it appears only as a text.<br />
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:::Just add this to the end of your text: ~,~,~,~. (I added commas because if I write the tildes uninterrupted they form a signature - namely mine. Simply write it the same way I wrote it, at the end of the sentence, without the "," sign.) [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 15:23, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::Okay I'll try. Shivam 15:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::Nope, it's still not working.--Shivam 15:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:::::When you edit a page then you see a box below that starts with 'Insert:' follower by a list of special characters. At the end you can click on a sequence that starts with two minuses and then four of those waves to insert this sequence, which will transform into your username with the date and time of the edit after you click on Show preview or on Save page. --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.103.196|188.114.103.196]] 16:08, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::::The last two edits I did, I tried both IvarTheBoneless' and your method but no improvement still I am going to try it again.--Shivam 16:37, 16 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Calimehtar (son of Calmacil) ==<br />
I appreciate that you take an interest in the articles on Tolkien Gateway and that you want to correct things that you pereceive as mistakes. If you look at the title of the line in the infobox, which says "Children" and if you look how it is used for other persons, you can deduce that the persons that stand to the right of "Children" are the children or the grandchildren and that male grandchildren are identified by adding "grandson". Castamir was the grandson of Calimehtar and not the grandfather of Calimehtar. If the title of the line in the infobox says "Patentage" then the persons that stand to the right are the parents and if the parents are not known and only the grandfather is known then grandfather is added before the name of the grandfather. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 12:22, 17 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I forgot to write 'of' before [[Castamir]]. I will keep this in mind.--Shivam 06:20, 18 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Genealogy Template ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for your help on the Genealogy sections! To be honest, I think I like the white background that doesn't have a scroll bar when it's not needed better. What are your thoughts? I'm thinking it might be a good idea to actually remove any CSS from the articles and add it to the template so everything can be consistent and more straight-forward. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 22:31, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:I would also have preferred that but I did it because there were irregularities, many pages had it and many didn't. About the scroll-bar thing, I tried removing the horizontal scroll bar and keeping the dark background, but it didn't work. And yes adding it to the template would be great, no more irregularities I hope.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:38, 25 May 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dour1234&diff=373920User talk:Dour12342023-05-25T01:29:11Z<p>Shivam: /* Ancestry of Aragorn */</p>
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<div>{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Dour1234}}<br />
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-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 05:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Moving pages==<br />
Moving pages is not the wiki's priority, and not a work for newcomers. Pages must never been moved via copypasting! You ignored what I told you about using talkpages before moving anything, and obviously you still are unawared of the [[Tolkien Gateway:Naming policy]], so I'm blocking you again. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:04, 28 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
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Moving talkpages is even less important, and I told you don't do it via copypasting; that way we loose the history of edits. Just👏don't👏move👏anything👏please! --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:03, 16 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Calm down==<br />
You made almost 20 edits in one day just in the Lungorthin article. Please, planify your edits and check the preview before saving. You are constantly correcting yourself and making useless microedits like removing spaces. Editing for the sake of editing does not help the wiki. My recommendation: choose a matter of your interest, study the sources, think how to apply it to the wiki and then edit with calm if it is necessary. Also, the correction on Lurgonthin being a Maia was a good reason for you to ask in the talkpage, but you simply reject it. I'm blocking you just couple of weeks, let's see if you can moderate yourself already. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 22:25, 24 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Nameless Things==<br />
The index of The Lord of the Rings was not written by J.R.R. Tolkien. You can learn some information about the index by reading the Note on the text and the introductory text of the Index of the 50th anniversary edition of The Lord of the Rings, which even explicitly says "Compiled by Christina Scull & Wayne G. Hammond". They only say that they also have "referred to the index, that Tolkien himself began to prepare during 1954, but which he left unfinished after dealing only with place names". Christina Scull & Wayne G. Hammond do not quote an entry for "Nameless Things" from J.R.R. Tolkien's unfinished index that was prepared by Nancy Smith for him and reviewed by him [[Unfinished index]]. The entry in the index in the 50th anniversary edition does not say "Nameless" (the term that you used in your edit), but says "Nameless, gnawing things" followed by the page number, which is the page where Gandalf calls them "nameless things". Since the nameless things are not a placename, it is probable that they were not included in the unfinished index that was reviewed by J.R.R. Tolkien. Also, generally reliable sources, such as Michael Martinez's middle-earth.xenite.org and Mark Fisher's The Encyclopedia of Arda call them "Nameless Things". I suggest that you read the Templates to familiarize yourself with them before you edit and that you avoid breaking up your edits into microedits. The [[Template:RK]] contains an entry for the index and entries for subsections of the index. Since the index was not written by J.R.R. Tolkien it is not a reliable source. For example the entry in the index of the 50th anniversary edition of an e-book versions for Cirith Ungol reads "Cirith Ungol [Pass of the Spider] (High Pass, Nameless Pass)". If one reads the descriptions of the locations of the passes in the chapters it becomes clear that the Nameless Pass in the chapter The Stairs of Cirith Ungol is the Morgul Pass that is mentioned in The Black Gate Opens and in The Tower of Cirith Ungol. You create unnecessary work for other users to review your edits and to correct your edits if you do not support your edits with reliable sources and if you break up your edits into microedits. Lorenzo already told you on this talk page how to do thorough edits. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 07:57, 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Tevildo==<br />
Several sections on the Tevildo page that you edited or created do not contain any reference. You have already been told to use references in your edits. You risk that your edits will be reverted and that you will be blocked again if you do not adhere to Tolkien Gateways's policies. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 08:39, 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I will get to adding the references right now.<br />
:Edit, just finished adding page references to the article, please name the other pages I need to do. Regardless, I am going to be adding page references to the Leaf by Niggle article now. I regret saying this as I just remembered I do not have that version with the correct pagination. However, I will still put the reference to the book, though. Edit again, what reference shortcut template do I use for specifically “Leaf by Niggle”? It is not mentioned on the references help page. --[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]], 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
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::I don't know what's the standard edition of "Leaf by Niggle" that should be used for the wiki. Adding a simple reference without pagination will always better than no reference at all. In the case of Tevildo, I'll have to change all your work, as the pagination does not match the one used by Christopher Tolkien or the wiki. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:23, 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Southward Road ==<br />
I noticed that you created a new page called Southward Road. While it is positive that you noticed that the name Southward Road is used once with capital characters at the beginning of each word, which signifies a proper name, you did not include a page number for the 50th anniversary edition of The Lord of the Rings and left the page unfinished although it does not require much content. In addition, you do not seem to have performed research if the road could be another name for the Harad Road and you do not seem to have looked at the information on the Harad Road with the fact that J.R.R. Tolkien used the name Harad Road for the part of the road to the south of the Cross-roads on a draft map. You phrased the information that you wrote like it was fact. Please do not make any edits until you have thoroughly researched a topic and until you can include complete references. Very often it is better not to make edits at all. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 09:15, 12 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Caves of the Forgotten ==<br />
You create extra work for other users if you do not read the sources carefully and do not prepare your edits carefully. If was quite plain from the text that only the mortal men that came ashore, but not Ar-Pharazôn and not Tar-Miriel were buried in the Caves of the Forgotten. You created a title for a section called "Other versions" with information from manuscripts of J.R.R. Tolkien from The Lost Road and Other Writings. The standard title for such a section on Tolkien Gateway is Other versions of the legendarium. The standards of Tolkien Gateway require to make all reasonable efforts to include page numbers if you use books from The History of Middle-earth series, such as The Lost Road and Other Writings. Lorenzo and I corrected your errors. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 10:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Southward Road ==<br />
The standards of Tolkien Gateway require to make all reasonable efforts to include page numbers if you use The Lord of the Rings or books from The History of Middle-earth series, such as The War of the Ring as references. You used both sources in your edit on this page and did not include any page numbers. The reference to The War of the Ring was not necessary, because The Lord of the Rings already contains this information. The implied statement that the Southward Road merged into the Harad Road is a speculation that you did not disclose as being a speculation. In addition, you could have made more research about the names that J.R.R. Tolkien used for various parts on his maps and could have found the existing page about the Harad Road. I corrected your errors. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 10:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Éowyn ==<br />
The standard on other pages about people from Rohan for the name of the language in infoboxes is Rohirric. J.R.R. Tolkien used the name Rohan for the language and not the name Rohanese that you used in the infobox. He used Rohanese once, but it is not clear if its use in that context was intended as the name of the language or just an adjective. Do not change Rohirric before discussing the topic on Talk pages. You created a title for a section called "Other versions" with information from manuscripts of J.R.R. Tolkien from TI. The standard title for such a section on Tolkien Gateway is Other versions of the legendarium. The standards of Tolkien Gateway require to make all reasonable efforts to include page numbers if you use books from The History of Middle-earth series, such as The Treason of Isengard. I corrected your errors. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 10:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Idis, Helm, Helm's daughter ==<br />
Again the same issued here with the name of the language in the infobox and with missing page numbers. In addition, there was an implied speculation on the Helm's daughter page that Helm hit Freca only because he asked for the hand of Helm's daughter for his son Wulf. You did not explain that Freca insulted and threatened Helm before Helm hit him. I corrected those pages. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 11:24, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Edits to the Bor (Taliska) and Angbor (stone) pages ==<br />
I reviewed your edits on the Bor (Taliska) and Angbor (stone) pages. Your edits did not include any reference for the changes that you made. The Tolkien Gateyway Manual of Style and Help:References require references and require references with page numbers if you want to include information from The War of the Jewels. The fact that the Angbor (stone) page did not have a reference using a template and did not have a reference with page numbers does not make the edit any better. Your edits create additional work for other users to review and correct your edits by adding missing references. Please do not edit unless you make and edit with proper references. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 12:34, 19 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I was going to add references to the bor (Taliska) page. I made one edit on that page intending to do a reference edit immediately after, but something unforeseen came up in real life that I had to see to which could not wait. I was intending to make that reference edit literally now, but you beat me to it. As for the Angbor (stone) page, my last edit on that page was months ago in April, at a time before I grew familiar with the wiki policies over this past summer.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 20:25, 19 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Question ==<br />
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Hello. Should the page ''Amazon.com Incorporated'' retitled to ''Amazon (company)''?I am saying that beacause on Wikipedia the page of this company is titled ''Amazon (company)'' and not ''Amazon.com Incorporated''.Should this be discussed with other uses and administrators of Tolkien Gateway or not? [[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] 20:40, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Wikipedia has multiple pages unrelated to the Amazon company that has the name Amazon in it. They have to have company in parentheses because they need pages to be simplified. I figured that since there won’t be any confusion on here, it should be the actual company name.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 21:08, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
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:I am sorry but I don't understand.What do you mean? [[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] 21:13, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
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::Btw, we don't need so many separated articles for Amazon and its branches. I'd say only Amazon Studios is enough. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] ([[User talk:LorenzoCB|talk]]) 21:15, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree, though maybe Amazon.com Incorporated should be kept instead of Amazon Studios, as they are the main branch.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 21:19, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power ==<br />
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Hello.I would like to ask you something.Why did you reversed the edits that I did on the page The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power? I think this page needs a tidying up on the Content External Links.Some websites need to be removed, because they are unessecary.Do you understand what I am saying? ----[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]], 12.22, 2 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Some things mentioned in the articles are not mentioned in the show or are not clear in the show.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 17:45, 2 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Moving pages==<br />
Hi Dour1234. Regarding your recent moving of the page "Phil LaMarr" to "Phillip LaMarr", it might be a good idea to discuss moving pages in the talk page before going ahead. From what I've seen in the past (and a quick google), this actor tends to be credited by the first name "Phil". Although somewhat inconsequential for this relatively minor page on TG, I'd urge you to discuss via the talk page before moving articles in the future. Thank you. --[[User:GondolinFan|GondolinFan]] ([[User talk:GondolinFan|talk]]) 23:03, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power title card opening ==<br />
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Hello.I would like to ask you something.Why did you change the main image that I put on page The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power?I put it because it is the title opening card for each episode of The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power series.Do you understand what I am saying? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] [[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]], 02.40, 03 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, I reverted your edit because the title card opening does not reflect the show as a whole. As I explained in my edit summary, it only appears within episodes two through eight and does not appear in episode one and any of the extra content, primarily because it does not appear in episode one.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 06:05, 3 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Moving images ==<br />
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I would like to ask you something.Why do you change the name of the images that I uploaded and are related to The Lord of the Rings The Rings of Power series? I think that all the names of these images that you changed and I uploaded and I named it are fine.So, there is nothing wrong.You didn't have to do all these changes in those images that you did today.Do you understand what I am saying? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 22:08, 04 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Back ==<br />
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Hello.Welcome back here, on Tolkien Gateway. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 13:54, 17 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Images Numenor ==<br />
<br />
Hello.I think that you didn't have to do all these things you did on the images that I just upoladed. Anyway, I have no problem with you, in order for you to know.I am not trying to offend you. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 00:04, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The reason why I changed the name of the image of the citadel of [[Armenelos]] was because the name of that place is the [[King's Court]]. As such, having the name of the image be the name of what it depicts is better in my opinion than having the name be a generic name. The reason why I changed the image that you called the harbour of [[Númenor]] was because Númenor does not just have one harbour and one city. Despite my issue with those two names, the images that you upload are very good. Speaking of which, I had previously posted a question on your [[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου#Question|talk page]].[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 01:44, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hello.I just read your message that you wrote to me on my talk page and I would like to say to you that I haven't found any image of the exterior of Hall of Lore.As of any image of the exterior of the King's Tower I haven't searched it yet, if you want to know. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 21:37, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::There actually is a shot of the exterior of the [[Hall of Lore]] before the interior is shown. It is shown in a wide shot for a few moments from two angles when Captain Elendil and Galadriel are just riding up to the overhang that it lies upon. There are also some shots of it in the behind the scenes video for that episode, which is six minutes long, so it would likely be easier to find the shots that I am referring to in there. However, the best shot in my opinion is at the absolute beginning of Scene 29 and the time stamp is at 29:50/39:32. You would know that it is the right shot if the subtitles are just beginning to bleed the sound of "hammering" from the next shot. As for the [[King's Tower]], there are multiple great exterior shots of it. In fact, in episode three, there is a night shot of it in the "Episode Stills" section of the "Bonus Content" tab of the X-ray feature that can be accessed within the episode. It is not centered, but perhaps you could go to that shot where the time stamp is at 57:33 just immediately before it cuts to Miriel walking up the stairs of the tower. There may be better shots of it, but this is a start. On a side note, when you upload the images to the wiki, I do think that they should be called "Hall of Lore" and "King's Tower" respectively. In addition, I just found a shot of the [[Watchtower of Ostirith]] that may be better than the current one. It is in episode four and the time stamp is 18:58/52:45. It shows the Watchtower from the other side, which includes not only the tower and the top bridge, but also the pathway carved into the two hills and the two bridges “below” the top bridge. Perhaps the current image of it could be replaced by the shot I just mentioned as there is only room on the [[Watchtower of Ostirith]] page for one image. There is also a concept art section on the X-Ray feature. Those should perhaps be on the wiki as well. I hope that all of this helps. Thanks.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 23:37, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Images ==<br />
<br />
Hello and happy new year to you. You did good job for uploading these images you uploaded today, and for all of these editings but be careful, not to be blogged again from TG by LorenzoCB or by any other administrator of TG.I am just warning for you in order for the worse for you to be prevented.Nothing more. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 21:39, 1 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power plot ==<br />
<br />
Hello. I would like to ask you something. Have you seen episodes 6 - 8 (six to eight, I mean)? I am asking that because if you did, then add informations about the plot and about the differences that all of these episodes have from Tolkiem's books. So, what do you think? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 22:59, 5 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
:I have seen those episodes, but I would prefer editing and revising it once someone does add that information in. However, if I must, then I will add in that information.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 23:04, 5 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== No problem ==<br />
<br />
Hello user Dour1234.OK. No problem.In this case, the result is the same. The page still exists, albelt in other name. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 14:52, 28 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Help ==<br />
<br />
Hello user Dour1234.Can you help me in editing the template:films that I just edited? I don't know what to do I think you understand my intentions about this template that I just edited.Don't you? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 00:35, 31 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Elros (Mirkwood guard) ==<br />
<br />
Hi! I've seen your changes to the Elros (Mirkwood guard) page and the new links you put on the pages for the two radio series where the character appears. However, currently both of those links are redlinks, because you linked to "Chief of the guards" and not Elros. Was that on purpose? Also, just in general, should the Elros page be moved, now that it's not chiefly about the movie character anymore? Or were you already planning on doing that? Regards, [[User:Adunoeth|Adunoeth]] ([[User talk:Adunoeth|talk]]) 16:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)<br />
:The redlinks were an oversight on my part. Thanks for bringing them to my attention. I will change the links to go to the proper page. As for moving the current page, I have no plans on making a move proposal as the name of the page itself does not matter and I see nothing wrong with the current name since it is still a name that was given to the character and the name is still mentioned in the Portrayal in adaptations section, so the name truly is “accurate” in a way. All that matters is the content of the page. However, if you want to make a proposal to the “[[Authorities]]” (this is a joke), or to the admins of the site, or to the [[User:Hyarion|site-creator]], go on ahead, but do not mention me because I am not going to make such a proposal myself because the current name is fine in my opinion.<br />
:If you can find any information on the character in LOTRO, could you possibly add it to the page? I am having no luck in finding such information. [[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 00:38, 9 February 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Oliphaunts]] ==<br />
Hello,<br />
Considerations about their size can be an indication of whether they are elephants or distinct animals resembling elephants. Sorry for "unsourced statements" but how to source something which can be seen in a movie? It seems somewhat difficult.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/172.71.122.201|172.71.122.201]] 19:12, 20 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
:I reverted your edit because what you stated is already said in the “Portrayal in adaptations” section on the page.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 19:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
::Yes you're right. I displaced it in the right section. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.122.92|172.71.122.92]] 19:33, 20 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Eye of Sauron ==<br />
<br />
Hello.There was no reason to do what you did on the page The Eye of Sauron, and I am referring to the fact that you reduced the images of the Eye of Sauron in adaptations. Just pit it according to the right timeline of the first appearence. OK? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 15:41, 06 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ancestry of Aragorn ==<br />
Are you planning to extend the family tree of Aragorn because there are a lot more members and its a bit complicated?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 07:14, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
:I am presuming that you are talking about my sandbox page on the [[User:Dour1234/Ancestry of Eldarion|ancestry of Eldarion]]? I underestimated how complex it was and I have been at a loss for a while now on how to literally put it all down with every single possible member listed, but mentioned only once on the page. Despite it being a user page, feel free to add to it. My goal for that user page is for it to have every connection possible, even unnamed characters (so not every name has to have a link).[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 17:52, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I would love to do it, but the problem is if we start we'll have to connect all the members of House of Hador, House of Haleth, House of Beor, House of Finwe, Kinfolk of Thingol and many more to Elros, I tried it but sadly i think it's not possible. Have you tried an external editor? --[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:28, 25 May 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Curumo&diff=373907Talk:Curumo2023-05-24T14:07:14Z<p>Shivam: Created page with "I think all the content of this page is already there on the Saruman page, so what to do with this one?--~~~~"</p>
<hr />
<div>I think all the content of this page is already there on the Saruman page, so what to do with this one?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 14:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&diff=373906User talk:Hyarion2023-05-24T13:57:33Z<p>Shivam: /* Few Doubts */</p>
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<div>{| style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background-color: #f9f9f9; color: black; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 1em; padding: 0.2em; float: right; clear: right;"<br />
|-<br />
!align="center"|[[Image:archive.png|50px|Archive]]<br>Archives<br />
----<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 3|2007]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 4|2008]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 5|2009]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 6|2010]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 7|2011]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 8|2012]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 9|2013]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 10|2014]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 11|2015]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 12|2016]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 13|2017]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 14|2018]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 15|2019]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 16|2020]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 17|2021]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 18|2022]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 19|2023]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
|}<br />
{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
<br />
== [[Talk:The Hobbit (film series)]]/Mistakes ==<br />
<br />
look what I have written in [[Talk:The Hobbit (film series)]] about some mistakes.<br />
<br />
Won't you say something about it;Won't you say your opinion;<br />
<br />
== Mortals ==<br />
<br />
During the council of elrond, when frodo declared that he would take the ring to mordor, master elrond said(quote): 'But if you take it freely, Iwill say that your choice is right; and though all the mightyElf-friends of old, Hador, and Hu´rin, and Tu´rin, and Berenhimself were assembled together, your seat should be amongthem.’<br />
<br />
So who amongst mortal men is deemed the mightiest, or rather sacrificed and contributed the most for both the eldar and edain?<br />
Personally I'd say Hurin.<br />
<br />
== Voting for quotes ==<br />
<br />
How do I vote for a nominated quote and how do I nominate one myself?<br />
<br />
Trying to figure out the same thing myself. The page does not seem to have anything that will allow one to do either. {{unsigned|Cww306}}<br />
<br />
:You are suppose to edit [[TG:FQ/N]], adding a new section or voting below the quote you like. But it is pointless, that page is forsaken and there are no admins to update the Main Page. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:56, 28 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Help! And hurry, not much time.... ==<br />
<br />
I need pronunciation help for Silent Night in Grey Elven. I haven't the foggiest, so if you have a lot of time, please help!<br />
All credit is duly given to Alfred W. Tueting for the translation.<br />
<br />
Sedhel i fuin, aer i fuin, <br />
Lostar pain, ereb tíril <br />
In edhryn aer a i laes aer-guin <br />
Dollen na ven or amar vín. <br />
Eruchên, losto hi mae(r)! <br />
Eruchên, losto hi mae(r)! <br />
<br />
Sedhel i fuin, aer i fuin, <br />
Tirnath lathrar hiniath-vaer dîn <br />
Uin aerlinn 'ellui i linnen o chaw, <br />
Egleriar i menel-hirth Eru vin-glaw, <br />
Eru, ven berio uin Gûr! <br />
Eru, ven berio uin Gûr!<br />
<br />
== Getting news of new items on TG ==<br />
<br />
Greetings! I have been a fan of Tolkien's since 1977 and have followed the growth of this site over time and joined it today. I look forward to contributing, but wanted to ask this: Is there an RSS newsfeed for this site to keep up with new articles or the stuff posted to the home page? Lots of great things to keep up with. I've subscribed to "recent changes" but that is overwhelming, which is great in the way of showing how active the site is, but hard for browsing.<br />
<br />
At any rate, thanks for a great website,<br />
<br />
Best regards,<br />
Darrell Curtis<br />
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA<br />
<br />
:It's great to have you aboard Darrel! Good question, [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&feed=rss this page] should do the trick. It's an RSS feed only for new pages. Looking forward to seeing you around in 2017. :)<br />
<br />
== Translation to portuguese the Tolkien Gateway. ==<br />
<br />
I'd like to know what must I do to translate the Tolkien Gateway to Portuguese-BR.If someone could tell me, please enter in touch at danieltiamorim@gmail.com I'd like to help.<br />
<br />
:Hi Daniel! Thanks so much for stopping by, and apologies for the delayed response. The translated versions of the pages are hosted by sister sites of Tolkien Gateway. If there currently is not a Portuguese-BR Tolkien Wiki, then it would be great if you could start one. As a starting point, you might want to focus on editing Wikipedia's Tolkien-related articles prior to trying to start an entire wiki yourself.<br />
<br />
== Long time since I have connected.... ==<br />
<br />
I just discovered this site. I am on a number of fan wiki but this looks different. What is the need here? {unsigned|Bill Ames}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:Hi Bill! It's great to have you aboard. We've accomplished a lot over the years, but we still have a long ways to go. There isn't a single article that is 100% perfect, so my recommendation would be think about what interests you the most when it comes to Tolkien, and focus on articles in that area. It can be a lot to take in at once, but feel free to let us know if you have any questions; thanks again for your help!<br />
<br />
== Thank You! ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Hyarion, I am a sort of new teenage tolkienite user from the U.S., and I just want to say thank you for making this site. It is excellent. I used it as a good amount of my research when I wrote my second quarter paper on Théoden last year and found it extremely helpful. Once again, ''thank you!'' -- [[User:Holdwine Meriadoc|Holdwine Meriadoc]] 18:55, 25 August 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Holdwine! Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm only one of thousands of volunteers but we really appreciate your feedback. We look forward to having you around, and hopefully some day a young "Tolkienite" will be thanking you for all your contributions. :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 21:02, 27 August 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== how to submit materials? ==<br />
<br />
hello,I am currently working on elven tongues family tree update. How can I send it as mail or submit it (around 2mb)?<br />
<br />
thank you<br />
best regarsd<br />
<br />
==Subpages==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion, I'm having a little bit of trouble finding how to create a subpage. Can you help me? I hope this isn't something I should have found and I'm unintentionally being a pest. --[[User:Holdwine Meriadoc|Holdwine Meriadoc]] 20:29, 13 December 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Holdwine! Great question. The answer is actually simpler than you might think; it's just a slash in the name of the article. So you only need to browse to "User:Holdwine Meriadoc/Example", add the content, and then add a link to the page. It's that easy, I had the exact same question when I first saw sub-pages. :) If you have any other questions just let us know; thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 20:53, 13 December 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thanks, Hyarion! I was trying to figure out how to upload a signature; that really helped!! --[[User:Holdwine Meriadoc|Holdwine Meriadoc]] 21:25, 13 December 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::OK that's weird...I don't see a Nickname section on my Special Preferences page. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br />
<br />
== Plagiarism on YouTube ==<br />
<br />
I would like to point out at this time that there is a rising YouTuber with several thousand followers who is actively engaged in plagiarism directly lifting passages from articles contained within the Tolkien Gateway. I would advise the staff, owner, contributing authors, administrators, etc. To go have a look at the youtube channel titled Men of the West. In point of fact, have the Angmar War page open and go look at the video titled"The Angmar war, wars of the legendarium." This youtuber replaces every fourth or so word with a synonym to avoid suspicion. However, the reddit community of Tolkien Fans is catching wise. Please take the proper steps to ensure that your intellectual property, body of work, and legacy are protected by not allowing blatant theft. This user is not even listing sources or giving credit at any point either in the video, in the description, or giving a link to the website he's boosting this from. I hope someone looks into this and it is brought to light. Signed, Someone who gives a damn.<br />
"Bernacus 1/1/2019<br />
<br />
:I have seen this YouTuber's channel. I believe he links Tolkien Gateway in his description. - Ancalagon the Black 17:59, 5 November 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Huge Tolkien Exhibition! ==<br />
<br />
Check this link out, this is super exciting!!<br />
<br />
http://www.openculture.com/2019/01/the-largest-j-r-r-tolkien-exhibit-in-generations-is-coming-to-the-u-s.html<br />
--{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br />
<br />
== How to submit changes to protected pages? ==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion,<br />
I saw your name on the Talk page for http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Talk:Uncommon_words, so thought you might be a good person to ask.<br />
<br />
I wanted to add a word to the [[Uncommon words]] page, so I registered for an account on TG, and looked for a way to edit. But the wiki said that the page was protected from edits. Through what channels should one go about submitting changes? See more details at [[Talk:Uncommon_words#proposal:_add_.22cockshut_light.22.3B_how_to_submit_changes.3F]]<br />
<br />
Thanks for your help,<br />
<br />
[[User:Huttarl|Huttarl]] 14:05, 11 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== General operations ==<br />
<br />
I was trying to find the people who create and operate this wiki, the owner so to speak to ask how to take a wiki someone created for me and operate it myself and no one I know seems to be able to help me. Where can I get instruction on how to use and create and operate a wiki. If you don't know but know someone who might please send me a line<br />
<br />
[[User:Elrondaragorn|Elrondaragorn]] 11:59, 26 July 2020 (UTC)elrondaragorn<br />
<br />
:Hi Elrondaragorn. Hyarion operates the wiki, however, this software is MediaWiki, the same software as Wikipedia. Visit [https://www.mediawiki.org MediaWiki.org] and the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installation_guide Installation guide]. Hope this helps. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:52, 20 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== how to delete my account ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible for me to delete my account? <br />
<br />
[[User:Írien Lindallë]] 04:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Irien! Great question, unfortunately due to the nature of wiki's, account deletion is not a supported feature. --Hyarion<br />
<br />
== House of Hurin coat of arms ==<br />
<br />
The shield of the HoH has Tengwar script. Can you tell me what it means? The image can be found here; House of Húrin - Tolkien Gateway . Thank you!<br />
<br />
== Account up for adoption ==<br />
<br />
Please post this information where as many users/new viewers as possible can see it: <br />
<br />
I no longer want access to this account, so I'm leaving it up for adoption. My password is IrienLindalle. Whoever adopts this account, please change the password. Thank you!<br />
<br />
Username:Írien Lindallë<br />
<br />
== Trying to contact you ==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion,<br />
<br />
I am writing to you on behalf of the German Tolkien Society which has now taken over responsibility of running the German-speaking Ardapedia at the new URL, ardapedia.org. I am not much of a tekkie but I do believe that the interwiki links that make it so useful to change from the English-speaking TG to Ardapedia to the Finns etc. have to be changed on the administrative side of things with Tolkien Gateway - and you are the person to ask about it?<br />
It would be wonderful if you could help us out on this one!<br />
--[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 16:53, 21 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== technical problem with a link on the site ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just wanted to bring it to the attention of the admins that the link to Artist Elena Kukanova's external website has been tampered with. It now redirects to another website entirely, which appears to be used by scammers. I am quite sure Elena is entirely innocent in this affair (surely someone of such skill would not have to resort to such base means). I didn't want to just unilaterally delete the links without explanation, but I do fear for the safety of fellow internet adventurers so I figured reporting the problem to an admin might be the best solution. Whatever tampering occurred, seems to have happened within the last few months. I remember this link working just fine last year. Forgive me if you aren't the correct person to contact with this problem. I don't really know anyone yet.{{unsigned|Anonymous}}<br />
:Thanks so much for bringing this to our attention. I'll see if we can automate the process of removing the links, just to be safe. Have a great weekend! --Hyarion<br />
<br />
::Alan Lee's fallen webpage is more... concerning http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/File:Alan_Lee_-_A_Chance_Meeting.jpg I forgot to mention it a while ago. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:47, 20 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Page Help ==<br />
Hiya! I'm one of the staff members for MCME (Minecraft Middle Earth) and we noticed that you guys have pages for different LOTR games, we were hoping to look into possibly making one for our server but we're unsure how to go about it!<br />
<br />
~~ Peyton (08/04/21)<br />
<br />
:Welcome to the wiki! I believe we have a page called [[ArdaCraft]], but I'm not sure if it's the same as MCME. Could you check, just to make sure? (By the way, I absolutely love MCME, keep up the great work!). --[[User:Ancalagon the Black|Ancalagon the Black]] 15:40, 7 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thank you! Ardacraft follows the same idea, but it's a completely seperate entity! We're older than that server, but we had never even thought of creating a page on here till recently! - Peyton (09/04/21)<br />
<br />
:In [[Help:Contents]] you can find indications on how to create a new article. Follow the indications on style and if there is any error, we can edit it easily. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 15:01, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding Infoboxes ==<br />
<br />
Hi [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]], this is [[User:Shivam|Shivam]]. I am having difficulty to add infoboxes to my user page. Kindly please help. --[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] 03:39, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Why don't you just use [[Template:User infobox]]? You won't have to deal with codes. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:59, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I used them, but can you tell me whether I can use this Gatekeeper thing and if I can't then please tell me how to remove it.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] 12:23, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Gatekeeper title you are seeing is the generic name for users on this wiki, and is the default for the user infobox. I'm not sure there's a way to remove it, except by using a different infobox. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 13:35, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
::::Ok thanks. I just don't want to get into any trouble in future.--Shivam 15:53, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Grace18 is spot-on, the Gatekeeper is just a generic name for fun. You can't get into any trouble here, we appreciate all your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 23:01, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Let's Think-1 ==<br />
<br />
If we compare the ages of the [[Lords of Andúnië]] and the [[Númenóreans]] [[Kings of Númenor|Kings]] we see a big difference.<br><br><br />
For instance, if we compare the ages of [[Elendil]] (even though he was not Lord of Andúnië but since he was the son of a lord, we can assume that he could've become a lord if [[Númenor]] was not sunk into the abyss) and [[Ar-Pharazôn]] we see that at the time of [[War of the Last Alliance]]-[[Second Age|S.A.]] [[Second Age|3429]] - [[Second Age|3441]], Elendil was 322 years old and the age of Ar-Pharazôn when he went to conquer the [[Blessed Realm]], he was 201 years old.<br><br><br />
We know that Ar-Pharazôn started building the [[Great Armament]] in [[Second Age|S.A.]] [[Second Age|3310]] when he grew old.<br><br><br />
And the fact that at the age of 322 Elendil went to war is a great feat.<br><br><br />
So why do we see such a difference?<br><br><br />
--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] 07:08, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:This kind of questions should be asked in the talkpage of the related articles, and in order to make future edits: the wiki it's not a debate forum. The kings of Númenor had fallen under the shadow some generations before, so their lives where shorter. The [[Lords of Andúnië]] kept longer lifes, and Elendil was a chosen one, so we can speculate he was granted even a longer one. [http://www.zarkanya.net/Tolkien/Decline%20of%20the%20Numenoreans.htm This article is pretty good on the matter]. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:59, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Infoboxes ==<br />
<br />
Is there a specific colour code of infoboxes for different races or is it just random?--Shivam 14:52, 14 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Great question! Not sure if you're referring to [[Template:Race infobox]] or the race-specific ones, like [[Template:Maiar infobox]] but either way, it was just a random color assigned when creating the template, we just did our best to make sure they all weren't different shades of the same color. Definitely not set in stone if a color doesn't give off the right vibe. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:02, 14 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Images ==<br />
<br />
I just wanted to ask if I can use images of different artists on this site for my user [[User:Shivam|page]].--Shivam 13:30, 4 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:No problem at all! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 20:20, 4 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Fingolfin Artwork ==<br />
<br />
I made a composite of Fingolfin and was wondering whether you would post it on the page: <br />
https://www.deviantart.com/svarog989/art/High-King-Fingolfin-909190520<br />
:Wow, the detail of your art is incredible! I'll definitely see what I can do. Keep up the great work! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:35, 18 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Misconceptions -Elves have long hair ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I'm new here. I would like to change the Misconceptions-Elves have long hair section. One of the quotes is incomplete and the misconception is not strictly true. There are other quotes from Tolkien's books that I'd like to add. I'm not sure how to change it. Can someone help me please?<br />
: It's ok, I figured it out!<br />
::Apologies for the delayed response. I'm glad you were able to figure it out and thanks so much for your contributions! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:36, 18 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Layout ==<br />
Hyarion, is there something wrong with the layout of the site or is it just me? Also, it seems that TG was down for about half an hour just recently - what is going on? - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 15:06, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Ivar! Hm, no issues or changes with the layout on my end. What are you seeing? Server downtime wasn't just you; we rebooted the server this morning in preparation for our move to a new server, so that would explain the ~20 minutes of downtime. Thanks for your patience! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:25, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hmm..It looks like the artwork is gone, on the top of the page and on the sides? I don't know. - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 15:36, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Gotcha, I haven't seen that before but sounds like it might be a caching issue on the computer. Try pressing Shift + F5 or [https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/32050 clearing your cache] in your browser, that should do the trick. If not let me know; thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:52, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Thank you! I already cleared my cache, thought it might have been it. Turns out it was - it's all normal looking now. - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 16:02, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Awesome! If you experience anymore issues don't hesitate to reach out. Thanks for all your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:13, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Just a doubt ==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion<br><br />
I had a simple doubt<br><br />
Can we copy an entire page created by someone else and just put our name on it?<br><br />
I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but i have to clear this.<br><br />
Thanks.<br><br />
--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 03:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Shivam! I'm not sure the context of your question, if you're referring to copying a page from Tolkien Gateway, or to Tolkien Gateway, but either way the answer would be a definite no. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I mean say you created a page on Tolkien Gateway and I copied it entirely and put my name on it and shared it's link on my user page.(Just an example, I won't do such thing). --[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:00, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::No, that sounds a bit unethical. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Well something like that has happened to me. Although i haven't created many pages, actually just one, so someone copied it entirely and put their name on it. Is there anything i should do?.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Can you provide more context? Thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 12:32, 15 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I solved it, thanks.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Concerning article cleanup ==<br />
<br />
Hi! I've been cleaning up some articles lately that have had headings like "Plot" or "Synopsis." Should I be putting these as sub-headings under a "History" heading?<br />
[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 00:34, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Brandon! It's so great to have you on the team! Great question, if we use [[Hordes of the Things]] as an example, I think the "History" section could likely be eliminated. Pretty much everything about the subject will be considered "history", so the heading, at least to me, seems a little redundant. What are your thoughts though? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:03, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think that there needs to be a heading over the sub-headings, and that ''could'' be "History," but it could be something else. I, personally, think that "History" works just fine, as it ''does'' all realate to history, but what do you think? There ''could'' be just sub-headings, but that might look weird... --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 01:45, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Ah yes, I agree about sub-headings needing a heading. I meant I would be okay with those sub-headings being converted to headings. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 02:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I agree. I think it ''would'' be fine, but in the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] it shows that only the following headings can be used: '''History, Legacy, Etymology, Other names, Genealogy, Other versions of the legendarium, Inspiration, Portrayal in adaptations, See also, Notes, External links, References,''' and '''Further reading.''' The manual of style could be updated, we could come up with another heading that can be used in all of these situations so there's a ''general way of doing it'', or we could just convert those to regular headings. What's your opinion? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 02:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Hm, I think the Manual of Style just says "typically", so it's not an absolute requirement (if you see phrasing that's more strict, definitely let me know). Those headings are primarily intended for in-universe characters, locations, etc. so it's perfectly fine if ''Hordes of the Things'' deviates from that. It's difficult to list all the possible top-level headings, so I usually will check some articles on similar subjects to see what the consensus seems to be and go from there. I agree though, expanding the policy so everyone doesn't have to wing it isn't a bad idea, I just want to avoid having a policy that is 1,000 pages long :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I think that it's a good idea to add a few new heading options to the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]. I'm not sure if it's possible but, because I'm working on cleaning up a big portion of the articles, I could add new heading "defaults" to the Manual of Style as needed. That is, if I'm able to get editing permission. Obviously, I wouldn't abuse this power. There are definitely a lot of possibilities for this, but I would just add the "primary" ones. i.e. Plot, Production, Bibliography, and any other main ones I come upon. I definitely agree that we shouldn't have a 1,000 page long policy, though! :D Is this possible? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 03:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lorenzo's user talk==<br />
I have seen that you deleted the new LorenzoCB talk page, I need that page to communicate with him. Excessive Vandalism made him protect that page, so only admins can edit it. I'm not an admin, and neither are three quarters of the people on TG, and when we need to contact him we would not be able to. That is why I made that page and would like to keep it so we Gatekeepers can contact him--[[User:Tformer|Tformer]] ([[User talk:Tformer|talk]]) 19:23, 17 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Few Doubts ==<br />
<br />
Do we have the right to use soundtracks of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings series?<br><br />
What is the sequence of layout of a page, I mean what's the correct order of writing History, Etymology, Genealogy, References, Other Versions, etc?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 07:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Great questions! We don't have any kind of official approval for use of soundtracks, but depending on what the specific scenario is, we can usually use something in a limited capacity under the [https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/ fair use doctrine]. I would say the [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style#Article_layout]] looks to be pretty accurate. We usually have the references at the bottom. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 13:40, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Great, thanks a lot.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 13:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=E%C3%A4rnur&diff=373891Eärnur2023-05-24T11:45:01Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Eärnur<br />
| image=[[Image:Earnur RotWK.png|250px]]<br />
| caption=Eärnur from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king]]''<br />
| pronun=[[Quenya|Q]], {{IPA|[eˈarnur]}}<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Captain of Gondor]], [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1928}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|2043}} - {{TA|2050|n}} (7 years)<br />
| death={{TA|2050}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Minas Morgul]]<br />
| age=122<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Eärnil II]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{quote|Eärnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom. He was a man of strong body and hot mood; but he would take no wife, for his only pleasure was in fighting, or in the exercise of arms.|''[[Appendix A]]'', "Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion"}}<br />
<br />
'''Eärnur''' ({{TA|1928|n}} – {{TA|2050|n}}) was the thirty-third and last [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]. He took the throne upon the death of his father [[Eärnil II]] in {{TA|2043}}, and after his disappearance, the [[Stewards of Gondor]] ruled in his name for many generations.<br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
=== Angmar ===<br />
During the [[Angmar War]], what was left of the ancient realm of [[Arnor]] was under attack. While not ignoring the North-Kingdom, King [[Eärnil II]] had trouble of his own, and could not spare any of his troops to send North. Upon learning that the Witch-king was preparing for the final blow in {{TA|1973}}, he sent his son Prince Eärnur north, as [[Captain of Gondor]]. Though his fleet sailed rapidly, he was not in time to save [[Arthedain]] or [[Arvedui]], its last king. His massive fleet - it filled [[Grey Havens|Mithlond]], [[Harlond (Lindon)|Harlond]] and [[Forlond]] - was hailed by the Men that had survived the last defeat, and the [[Elves of Lindon|Elves]] also. To Gondor's standards, the expeditionary force was mediocre in size. It did, however, include cavalry from [[Rhovanion]], which would prove useful on the wide lands of the North.<br />
<br />
With [[Círdan]], Eärnur travelled East, and cleansed the lands of Orcs and other servants of Angmar. All fled before the might of the [[Host of the West (Arnor)|Host of the West]], with Eärnur at its head. At the same time, [[Glorfindel]] came west from [[Rivendell]] and they [[Battle of Fornost|fought against Angmar]] at [[Fornost]]. When finally the Witch-king, clad in black, came forth near the site, many of the horses fled in terror. The Witch-king challenged Eärnur directly, but as he charged, his steed also swerved, and it took some time before the Captain of Gondor could regain control. The Witch-king laughed at this seeming retreat, but his victory would not last long. The Elves of Rivendell entered the battlefield, and the Witch-king fled before the [[Light of Valinor|might]] of Glorfindel. Fleeing in despair, Eärnur wanted to pursue him, but Glorfindel spoke against it: "''Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall''".<ref name=Appendix>{{App|A1iv}}</ref><br />
<br />
But nonetheless, Eärnur bore a grudge against the wraith that disgraced him, and so he won the chief hatred of the Witch-king.<br />
<br />
=== Kingship ===<br />
It was soon found out that the Witch-king escaped to [[Mordor]], and set up abode in Minas Ithil, which in consequence was renamed [[Minas Morgul]]. After the death of Eärnil and the coronation of Eärnur, the Witch-king challenged him to single combat, reminding him of the disgrace in the North. The [[Stewards of Gondor|Steward]], [[Mardil|Mardil Voronwë]], persuaded him not to go.<ref name=Appendix/><br />
<br />
Enamoured with fighting and arms, he retained his prowess and skill more than was usual, even for a Gondorian. He seemed more like a champion than a king, and won everyone in Gondor in sports of arms.<ref name=Appendix/><br />
<br />
Seven years later, the Witch-king renewed his challenge, and this time, Eärnur could not be held back. Before leaving, however, Eärnur left [[Crown of Gondor|his crown]] on the lap of his father in the [[Hallows|Houses of the Dead]].<ref name=Appendix/> There it was picked up again by [[Faramir]], the last Ruling Steward, for the coronation of [[Aragorn|Elessar]] almost a millennium later.<ref>{{RK|Steward}}</ref> With a small escort of knights, he rode past the gates of Minas Morgul. None were ever seen again.<ref name=Appendix/> <br />
<br />
No new king was elected and the rule of Gondor passed to the [[Ruling Stewards]], beginning with Mardil Voronwë. The Stewards were to rule "until the King returns", because it was uncertain at first whether Eärnur had been killed or not. In addition, Eärnur left without an heir, and while many others in Gondor could lay some sort of claim to the kingship, those claims generally had some sort of doubt, and no one wanted to risk another civil war like the [[Kin-strife]].<ref name=Appendix/><ref>{{S|V}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Etymology ==<br />
''Eärnur'' is [[Quenya]], being a shortened form of ''[[Eärendur]]''.<ref>{{PE|Eldarin}}, p. 88 and p. 152</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
Eärnur was a member of the "fifth line" of Kings of Gondor, which started with his father after the death [[Ondoher]] and his sons in {{TA|1944}}, and ended with himself a little over a century later. <br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | TEL | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | NAR | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | MEH | | MAC |MEH=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|MAC=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | ARN | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| | | |!| |ARN=[[Kings of Arnor|''Kings of<br/>Arnor'']]}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | OND | | DAU | | SIR |OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|DAU=''Daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ARV |y| FIR | | ART | | FAR | | MIN | | EAR |ARV=[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1864|n}} - {{TA|1975|n}}''†</small>|FIR=[[Fíriel]]<br/><small>''b. {{TA|1896|n}}''</small>|ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|EAR=[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1883|n}} - {{TA|2043|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ARA | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | EAR |ARA=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1938|n}} - {{TA|2106|n}}''</small>|EAR='''EÄRNUR'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1928|n}} - {{TA|2050|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ARA | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ARA=[[Aragorn|Elessar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2931}} - {{FoA|120}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
== Other versions of the legendarium ==<br />
In an earlier version of what would later become the chapter [[The Window on the West]] the last king of the line of [[Anárion]] was not called ''King Eärnur'', but was called '''King Elessar'''.<ref>{{WR|2|V}}, p. 153</ref><br />
<br />
== Portrayal in adaptations ==<br />
{{Gallery<br />
|title=Eärnur in adaptations<br />
|height=150<br />
|width=200<br />
|lines=3<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Eärnur.jpg|Eärnur during his life in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Mordirith.jpg|Eärnur as Mordirith, the Steward of Angmar<br />
}}<br />
'''2003: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'':'''<br />
:While explaining the origin of the [[Oathbreakers|Dead Men]] to [[Gimli]] (and by extension, the audience), [[Legolas]] refers to [[Isildur]] as the "Last King".<ref>''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'', "[[Dwimorberg - The Haunted Mountain]]"</ref> Whether Eärnur was omitted on purpose (so not to introduce another name) or simply overlooked is unknown.<br />
<br />
'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':''' <br />
:Eärnur appeared in the expansion pack, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king|The Rise of the Witch-king]]''. He came to Rivendell to aid the Elves and Men of Arnor.<br />
<br />
'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br />
:Eärnur plays a major role in the game as the chief antagonist of several story-lines and is also combined with the character of [[Gothmog (Lieutenant of Morgul)|Gothmog]]. In the game, in [[Minas Morgul]] he was transformed into a [[Wraiths|wraith]] named '''Mordirith''' in service of the [[Witch-king]], who in mockery of the [[Stewards of Gondor]] made Mordirith his own Steward of [[Carn Dûm]] in [[Angmar]]. Long absent from it, Mordirith returns to Carn Dûm shortly before [[War of the Ring]], launching attacks against the Free Peoples of [[Eriador]]. Mordirith is defeated at the end of the game's original storyline, plunging the other servants of [[Sauron]] into a civil war over his position before he returns and his identity is revealed at the end of ''Volume I''. He is defeated again, but instead of being send back to the North he is named '''Gothmog''' and is ordered to lead the Witch-King's armies against [[Gondor]]. <br />
<br />
:During the [[Battle of Pelennor Fields]] Gothmog personally kills the Ranger [[Halbarad]], but afterwards suddenly feels fear again and flees the battlefield before [[Aragorn]]. Gothmog barricades himself inside Minas Morgul, refusing even Sauron's muster to the Black Gate. Though he outlives the Dark Lord's demise, his other surviving servants blame Gothmog for it and combine their forces to assault of the City of the Dead. This gives the players and a group of [[Rangers of Ithilien]] the opportunity to sneak inside and challenge Gothmog, delivering a final defeat to him.<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1928}}<br />
| died={{TA|2050}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Eärnil II]]<br />
| list=33rd [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|2043}} – {{TA|2050|n}}<br />
| nvac=Vacant<br />
| next=Next held by:<br/>'''[[Aragorn|Elessar]]''',&nbsp;969&nbsp;years&nbsp;later<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Earnur}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Mariners]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Earnur]]<br />
[[fi:Eärnur]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:dunedain:gondoriens:earnur]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=E%C3%A4rnil_II&diff=373890Eärnil II2023-05-24T11:43:03Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-two|the penultimate [[Kings of Gondor|King]] of [[Gondor]]|earlier [[Ship-king]]|[[Eärnil I]]}}<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Eärnil II<br />
| image=[[File:Oznerol-1516 - Earnur and Mardil.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Earnur and Mardil" by [[:Category:Images by Oznerol-1516|Oznerol-1516]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1883}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1945}} - {{TA|2043|n}} (98 years)<br />
| death={{TA|2043}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=160<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Eärnur]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Eärnil II''' ({{TA|1883}}<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}, Eärnil II</ref> – {{TA|2043|n}},<ref name="South">{{App|South}}</ref> aged 160 years) was selected as the thirty-second King of [[Gondor]] after his predecessor, King [[Ondoher]], was slain in battle. <br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Military exploits===<br />
By the year {{TA|1944}}, King Ondoher had been warned by [[Forthwini]] of [[Éothéod]] that the [[Wainriders]] of [[Rhovanion]] were becoming strong again and planned an attack upon [[Gondor]]. The king was also aware that his enemies to the South were preparing for war and so he knew that the realm faced a double threat. Ondoher split Gondor's army in two and assigned the smaller southern force to Eärnil, who made his base at [[Pelargir]].<br />
<br />
On the ninth of [[Cermië]] in 1944 Eärnil received word that the southern enemies were on the move. He crossed the [[Anduin]] with half of his force and encamped forty miles north of the Fords of the [[Poros]].<ref name="Cirion">{{UT|Northmen}}</ref> Here he defeated and destroyed the army of [[Harad]] that came over the river,<ref name="Gondor">{{App|Gondor}}</ref> but received word of the disaster in the north from [[Adrahil I|Adrahil]] of [[Dol Amroth]].<ref name="Cirion"/> King Ondoher, his two sons, and his Right Wing commander had all died and Adrahil was left with few effective forces. Hastening north, Eärnil added what he could of the retreating northern army to his own forces and stormed the main camp of the Wainriders. After winning what they thought was an easy and complete victory the enemy forces were feasting and revelling. Eärnil torched their wains and drove the enemy out of [[Ithilien]]. Fleeing from the [[Battle of the Camp]], most of the Wainriders perished in the [[Dead Marshes]].<ref name="Gondor"/><br />
<br />
===Ascension to the Crown===<br />
The loss of Ondoher, his sons [[Artamir]] and [[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]], and the King's sister-son [[Minohtar]] left Gondor with the question of who should succeed to the throne. In {{TA|1940}} [[Arvedui]] of [[Arthedain]] had wedded [[Fíriel]], Ondoher's third child and daughter. Based on this relationship and his direct descent from [[Isildur]], the elder brother of [[Anárion]] and thus the heir of [[Elendil]], the ancient High King of all of the [[Dúnedain]], Arvedui made a claim for the throne of Gondor.<ref name="Gondor"/><br />
<br />
However, to the men of Gondor the realm of Arthedain seemed small. Led by the [[Steward of Gondor|Steward]] [[Pelendur]] the [[Council of Gondor]] awarded the Kingship to Eärnil, who ascended to the throne as Eärnil II in {{TA|1945|n}}.<ref name="TA">{{App|TA}}</ref> Yet Eärnil was a wise man and not arrogant, and he sent a message to Arvedui stating, "I do not forget the loyalty of [[Arnor]], nor deny our kinship, nor wish that the realms of Elendil should be estranged. I will send you aid when you have need, so far as I am able."<ref name="Gondor"/><br />
<br />
===Aid for the North===<br />
It was many years before Eärnil felt secure enough to send aid to Arthedain. At last in the autumn of {{TA|1973|n}} word arrived that Arthedain was about to be attacked by the [[Witch-king]] of [[Angmar]]. Eärnil sent his son [[Eärnur]] north with a fleet and as much strength as he could spare. However, by the time that they arrived Arthedain had been conquered and Arvedui had perished. The strength of Gondor, combined with the forces of [[Círdan]], met the host of Angmar and destroyed it. Yet the Witch-king himself did not perish, and riding upon Eärnur he humiliated the prince when his horse carried him away from the confrontation.<ref name="Gondor"/><br />
<br />
===Loss of Minas Ithil===<br />
Unbeknownst to Eärnil or his son, the Witch-king was the Lord of the [[Nazgûl]]. In {{TA|1980}} he entered [[Mordor]] and gathered the other Nazgûl to him. In {{TA|2000|n}} the Nazgûl led an army from Mordor that [[Second Fall of Minas Ithil|besieged]] [[Minas Ithil]]. Eärnil and the army of Gondor could not lift the siege, and in {{TA|2002|n}} the Nazgûl took the city,<ref name="TA"/> which was called [[Minas Morgul]], the "Tower of Sorcery", thereafter (and Minas Anor was renamed [[Minas Tirith]], the "Tower of the Guard").<ref name="Gondor"/><br />
<br />
Eärnil died in {{TA|2043}} and was succeeded by his son Eärnur, who would be the last king of the line of Anárion.<ref name="South"/> Likewise with all kings before him, Eärnil was buried in the [[Houses of the Dead]]. His son, before accepting the challenge of the [[Witch-king]], put the [[Crown of Gondor]] in the lap of dead Eärnil.<ref name="Gondor"/> The crown remained there for the following centuries until the [[War of the Ring]] when [[Faramir]] brought it to the coronation of [[Aragorn|Elessar]].<ref>{{RK|Steward}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
:''See: [[Earnil I#Etymology]]''<br />
<br />
==Other names==<br />
Eärnil was named '''Captain of the Southern Army''', after having been assigned the southern force of Gondor's army.<ref name="Gondor"/><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | TEL | | | | | | | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | NAR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | CAL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CAM |CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | OND | | | | | | ARN | | DAU | | SIR |OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|ARN=[[Kings of Arnor|''Kings of<br/>Arnor'']]|DAU=''daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |:| | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ART | | FAR | | FIR |y| ARV | | MIN | | EAR |ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FIR=[[Fíriel]]<br/><small>''b. {{TA|1896|n}}''</small>|ARV=[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1864|n}} - {{TA|1975|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|EAR='''EÄRNIL II'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1883|n}} - {{TA|2043|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | ARA | | | | | | | | EAR |ARA=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1938|n}} - {{TA|2106|n}}''</small>|EAR=[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1928|n}} - {{TA|2050|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | COD | | | | | | | | | | |COD=[[Chieftains of the Dúnedain|''Chieftains of<br/>the Dúnedain'']]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | ARA | | | | | | | | | | |ARA=[[Aragorn]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2931|n}} - {{FoA|120}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1883}}<br />
| died={{TA|2043}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| pvac=Vacant<br />
| prev=Last held by:<br/>'''[[Ondoher]]''', 1 year earlier<br />
| list=32nd [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1945}} - {{TA|2043|n}}<br />
| next=[[Eärnur]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Earnil II}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Earnil II.]]<br />
[[fi:Eärnil II]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:dunedain:gondoriens:earnil_ii]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Minohtar&diff=373889Minohtar2023-05-24T11:42:18Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Minohtar<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=Captain of Gondor<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[13 July|July 13]], {{TA|1944}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Disaster of the Morannon]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=Descended from the [[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=Unknown (sister-son of [[Ondoher]])<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Minohtar''' was King [[Ondoher]]'s sister-son and Captain of the Right Wing of the northern army of [[Gondor]]. <br />
<br />
==History==<br />
In {{TA|1944}} when King Ondoher and Prince [[Artamir]] led the [[Northern Army]] of Gondor out to meet the expected assault of the [[Wainriders]], Minohtar was assigned the position of Captain of the Right Wing. His section of the army followed the main force that included the King's Guards as they approached the area in front of the [[Morannon]].<br />
<br />
Ondoher had intended to deploy his full army upon the [[Dagorlad]] to meet the foe. However, the Wainriders sent forth a swift vanguard of horsemen and charioteers that struck the head of the moving army. Ondoher had just enough time to send a message to Minohtar to cover his left flank before he and his son, with most of the King's Guard, were annihilated. Minohtar then took command of the army, rallying the remaining men of the Centre and deploying his own command. He sent word to [[Adrahil I|Adrahil]] of [[Dol Amroth]], who was the Captain of the Left Wing, to withdraw to a defensive position between [[Cair Andros]] and the [[Ephel Dúath]]. It was Minohtar's intention to use his forces as a rearguard to attempt to halt the Wainriders, whose main host was now approaching.<br />
<br />
Minohtar checked the advance of the enemy for awhile. At this time the [[leader of the Éothéod]] arrived with the news that the younger son of the King, [[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]], had been slain. The prince should have stayed in [[Minas Anor]] but had disguised himself to join in the battle. He had been riding with the [[Northmen]] when his party had been caught near the [[Dead Marshes]]. Minohtar had been in the process of sending a message to Faramir when this crushing news arrived.<br />
<br />
Soon the Wainriders broke through Minohtar's position. Late on the thirteenth day of [[Cermië]] Minohtar was overwhelmed and slain by an arrow. His body was carried away with the rearguard as they fled to find Adrahil.<br />
<br />
That same year, [[Eärnil II|Eärnil]], Captain of the Southern Army, avenged Monohtar, the King, and the others who died in the [[Disaster of the Morannon]] by routing the Wainriders in the [[Battle of the Camp]]. The victorious Eärnil was thereafter [[Law of Succession in Númenor#Realms in Exile|granted]] the crown of Gondor.<ref>{{UT|Cirion}}, pp. 292-4</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Minohtar'' is clearly [[Quenya]], but it is not glossed. As Paul Strack explains, it could mean "First Warrior", from ''[[minyar]]'' ("first") + ''[[ohtar]]'' ("warrior").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://eldamo.org/content/words/word-274834865.html|articlename=Q. ''Minohtar'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=1 February 2023}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | TEL | | | | | | | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | NAR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | CAL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CAM |CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | OND | | | | | | ARN | | DAU | | SIR |OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|ARN=[[Kings of Arnor|''Kings of<br/>Arnor'']]|DAU=''daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |:| | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ART | | FAR | | FIR |y| ARV | | MIN | | EAR |ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FIR=[[Fíriel]]<br/><small>''b. {{TA|1896|n}}''</small>|ARV=[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1864|n}} - {{TA|1975|n}}''†</small>|MIN='''MINOHTAR'''<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|EAR=[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1883|n}} - {{TA|2043|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | ARA | | | | | | | | EAR |ARA=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1938|n}} - {{TA|2106|n}}''</small>|EAR=[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1928|n}} - {{TA|2050|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | COD | | | | | | | | | | |COD=[[Chieftains of the Dúnedain|''Chieftains of<br/>the Dúnedain'']]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | ARA | | | | | | | | | | |ARA=[[Aragorn]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2931|n}} - {{FoA|120}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Dúnedain]]<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Minohtar]]<br />
[[fi:Minohtar]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/minohtar]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Artamir&diff=373888Artamir2023-05-24T11:41:17Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Artamir<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth=Before {{TA|1896}}<ref group="note">{{TA|1896}} is listed as the year of birth for [[Fíriel]], Artamir's youngest sibling, in {{PM|Elendil}}, 'Ondohir', p. 201</ref><br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death={{TA|1944}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Disaster of the Morannon]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Ondoher]]<br />
| siblings=[[Fíriel]] and [[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=None<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Artamir''' ([[Quenya|Q]]: "noble jewel", pron. {{IPA|[ˈartamir]}}, stem ''Artamír-''; died {{TA|1944}}) was the elder son and heir of King [[Ondoher]] of [[Gondor]].<ref name="Gondor">{{App|Gondor}}</ref><br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Prince Artamir was the son of the [[King of Gondor]], and elder brother of [[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]] and [[Fíriel]]. They were born during perilous years for Gondor. King Ondoher had been warned by [[Forthwini]] of [[Éothéod]] that the [[Wainriders]] were on the move. Indeed the realm was assaulted simultaneously from the East and the South.<br />
<br />
In {{TA|1944}} Artamir and his father Ondoher were the two top leaders of the northern army of [[Gondor]] and led their forces into [[Ithilien]] in order to deploy upon the [[Dagorlad]], expecting the enemy from the north or north-east. Unfortunately the enemy not only came quicker than expected, but also directly from the east along the outskirts of the [[Ered Lithui]]. The army of Gondor was strung out when the vanguard was struck by a powerful force of mixed cavalry and chariot-borne warriors. The King, Artamir, and most of the King's Guard were annihilated in the attack.<ref>{{UT|Cirion}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Aftermath==<br />
Artamir was the eldest son and heir of Ondoher, and with his death, the line of succession should move to close male relatives of the [[House of Anárion]]. However his younger brother Faramir was also slain (he secretly disguised himself to participate in the battle) as well as the King's sister-son, [[Minohtar]] and the throne of Gondor remained vacant.<br />
<br />
His sister Fíriel was married to [[Arvedui]], son and heir of the northern King of [[Arthedain]], and partly based on his marriage, he asked to be granted the throne. However, the Steward [[Pelendur]] and the [[Council of Gondor]] selected general [[Eärnil II|Eärnil]], who had crushed the enemies in the [[Battle of the Camp]] and saved the realm, to be the next king.<ref name="Gondor"/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Artamir'' is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains, it means "Noble Jewel" and is a compound of the prefixal form [[arta]] of ''arata'' ("noble") and [[mir|mírë]] ("jewel").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-856718477.html|articlename=Q. ''Artamir'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | TEL | | | | | | | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | NAR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | CAL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CAM |CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | OND | | | | | | ARN | | DAU | | SIR |OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|ARN=[[Kings of Arnor|''Kings of<br/>Arnor'']]|DAU=''daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |:| | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ART | | FAR | | FIR |y| ARV | | MIN | | EAR |ART='''ARTAMIR'''<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FIR=[[Fíriel]]<br/><small>''b. {{TA|1896|n}}''</small>|ARV=[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1864|n}} - {{TA|1975|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|EAR=[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1883|n}} - {{TA|2043|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | ARA | | | | | | | | EAR |ARA=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1938|n}} - {{TA|2106|n}}''</small>|EAR=[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1928|n}} - {{TA|2050|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | COD | | | | | | | | | | |COD=[[Chieftains of the Dúnedain|''Chieftains of<br/>the Dúnedain'']]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | ARA | | | | | | | | | | |ARA=[[Aragorn]]<br/><small>''{{TA|2931|n}} - {{FoA|120}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references|notes}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Artamir]]<br />
[[fi:Artamir]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/artamir]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Siriondil_(son_of_Calimmacil)&diff=373887Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)2023-05-24T11:40:00Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-two|the father of [[Eärnil II]]|[[Kings of Gondor|King]] of [[Gondor]]|[[Siriondil (King of Gondor)]]}}<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Siriondil<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth=Before {{TA|1883}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=Before or around {{TA|1944}}<ref group=note>Based on the dates of Earnil's life, Siriondil must have flourished around the 19th century of the Third Age. The fact that his son became King instead of him in 1944, suggests that Siriondil was unavailable, or dead, by that date.</ref><br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Calimmacil]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Eärnil II]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Siriondil''' was a [[Gondorians|Gondorian]] nobleman.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Siriondil was the son of [[Calimmacil]], and a nephew of King [[Narmacil II]] (d. {{TA|1856}}) and as such, a distant cousin of King [[Ondoher]] of Gondor. He was probably named after his ancestor [[Siriondil (King of Gondor)|Siriondil]], a former King of [[Gondor]]. In {{TA|1883}} he had a son, [[Eärnil II|Earnil]].<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}, Eärnil II</ref><br />
<br />
After [[Ondoher]] and his sons were slain in a battle against the [[Wainriders]] in {{TA|1944}}, the [[Third Age 1945|next year]] Eärnil was elected the thirty-second King of Gondor.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
:''See: [[Siriondil (King of Gondor)#Etymology]]''<br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | TEL | | | | | | | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | NAR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | CAL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CAM |CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | OND | | | | | | ARN | | DAU | | SIR |OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|ARN=[[Kings of Arnor|''Kings of<br/>Arnor'']]|DAU=''daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR='''SIRIONDIL'''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |:| | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ART | | FAR | | FIR |y| ARV | | MIN | | EAR |ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FIR=[[Fíriel]]<br/><small>''b. {{TA|1896|n}}''</small>|ARV=[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1864|n}} - {{TA|1975|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|EAR=[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1883|n}} - {{TA|2043|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | ARA | | | | | | | | EAR |ARA=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1938|n}} - {{TA|2106|n}}''</small>|EAR=[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1928|n}} - {{TA|2050|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references|notes}}<br />
{{title}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Siriondil (Vater von Earnil II.)]]<br />
[[fr:/encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/siriondil_pere_d_earnil]]<br />
[[fi:Siriondil (Eärnil II:n isä)]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ondoher&diff=373886Ondoher2023-05-24T11:38:14Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Ondoher<br />
| image=[[File:Jack Dullahan - The fall of King Ondoher.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="The fall of King Ondoher" by [[:Category:Images by Jack Dullahan|Jack Dullahan]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1787}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1936}} - {{TA|1944|n}} (8 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1944}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Disaster of the Morannon]]<br />
| age=157<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br />
| siblings=Unnamed sister<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Artamir]], [[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]] and [[Fíriel]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Ondoher''' ({{TA|1787}}<ref name="Elendil">{{PM|Elendil}}</ref> – {{TA|1944|n}},<ref name="South">{{App|South}}</ref> aged 157 years) was the thirty-first [[King of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Renewing Old Ties===<br />
Ondoher became King in {{TA|1936}} upon the death of his father, [[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]].<ref name="South"/> During his reign, and that of [[Araphant]] of [[Arthedain]], the long-estranged kingdoms of the [[Dúnedain]] took counsel again, for they finally perceived that some single will and power was coordinating the multiple assaults upon their kingdoms. In a sign of their renewed relationship, Ondoher's daughter [[Fíriel]] married Prince [[Arvedui]] of [[Arthedain]] in {{TA|1940|n}}.<ref name="Gondor">{{App|Gondor}}</ref><br />
<br />
However, neither kingdom could aid the other when new evils set upon them - in the North [[Angmar]] attacked Arthedain while in the South the [[Wainriders]] struck in great force. Ondoher was not taken unaware by the renewed assault for [[Forthwini]] of [[Éothéod]] had informed the King that the Wainriders had recovered from their fears and weaknesses. Ondoher also learned that Gondor's southern enemies were preparing to attack. He raised as great an army as he could to meet the double threat.<br />
<br />
Ondoher divided his strength into two armies, assigning the smaller [[Southern Army]] to [[Eärnil II|Eärnil]], a member of the Royal House descended from King [[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]. This army was based at [[Pelargir]] while Ondoher took command of the larger [[Northern Army]] himself, which included his elder son [[Artamir]]. This arrangement was acceptable provided that an undisputed heir to the throne was left behind, in this case Ondoher's younger son, [[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]].<br />
<br />
===The Deaths of Ondoher and His Sons===<br />
In {{TA|1944}} the enemies of [[Gondor]] made a double assault: First the [[Haradrim]] invaded from the south and then a few days later word came of the [[Wainriders]] invading from the east. While Ëarnil moved to deal with the southern incursion the northern army headed north through [[Ithilien]], planning to deploy upon the [[Dagorlad]]. Unfortunately, the Wainriders moved faster than expected along the outskirts of the [[Ered Lithui]] and struck the head of Gondor's army before any defensive dispositions had been made. Swiftly the enemy's chariots and horsemen overwhelmed the King's Guard, killing both Ondoher and Artamir at the [[Disaster of the Morannon]].<br />
<br />
King Ondoher's sister-son, [[Minohtar]] attempted to stem the onslaught of the Wainriders. During the rout the [[leader of the Éothéod]] brought to Minohtar the body of Faramir, who had disguised himself in order to fight with a party of the Éothéod. Soon Minohtar himself was slain as the enemy poured into northern Ithilien.<br />
<br />
==Selecting the Next King==<br />
The suddenness of their victory was the Wainriders' undoing. Unbeknownst to them Eärnil had crushed the [[Haradrim]] and was racing north to aid the northern army. His attack upon the feasting Wainriders, later known as the [[Battle of the Camp]], defeated the Wainriders and sent them reeling back into the East.<ref>{{UT|Northmen}}</ref><br />
<br />
With King Ondoher and both of his male heirs dead, Arvedui of Arthedain sought the throne of Gondor. Arvedui put forth two arguments in support of his claim: First, he was the direct descendant of [[Isildur]], whom Arvedui said had never relinquished his royalty in Gondor. Second, his wife [[Fíriel]] was King Ondoher's daughter and by the ancient [[Númenóreans|Númenórean]] law the sceptre should have been hers. But Arvedui's claim was rejected by the Steward [[Pelendur]] and the Council of Gondor. The crown was granted to the victorious general Eärnil, of the royal [[House of Anárion]] who took the crown as King [[Eärnil II]].<ref name="Gondor"/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
Ondoher is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains, it means "Stone Lord" and is a compound of [[ondo]] ("stone") and ''[[heru|hér]]'' ("lord")<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-1359985459.html|articlename=Q. ''Ondoher'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref>, in reference to Gondor, the "Stone Land".<br />
<br />
The name "Ondoher" was spelled as ''Ondohir'' in early manuscripts, changed to ''Ondonir'' in a later manuscript, reverted to ''Ondohir'' in the first edition of ''[[The Return of the King]]'', and finally became ''Ondoher'' in the second edition.<ref name="Elendil"/><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | TEL | | | | | | | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | NAR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | CAL | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CAM |CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | OND | | | | | | ARN | | DAU | | SIR |OND='''ONDOHER'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|ARN=[[Kings of Arnor|''Kings of<br/>Arnor'']]|DAU=''daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |:| | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ART | | FAR | | FIR |y| ARV | | MIN | | EAR |ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FIR=[[Fíriel]]<br/><small>''b. {{TA|1896|n}}''</small>|ARV=[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1864|n}} - {{TA|1975|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|EAR=[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1883|n}} - {{TA|2043|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | ARA | | | | | | | | EAR |ARA=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1938|n}} - {{TA|2106|n}}''</small>|EAR=[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1928|n}} - {{TA|2050|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1787}}<br />
| died={{TA|1944}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br />
| list=31st [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1936}} - {{TA|1944|n}}<br />
| nvac=Vacant<br />
| next=Next held by:<br/>[[Eärnil II|Eärnil&nbsp;II]],&nbsp;1&nbsp;year&nbsp;later<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Ondoher]]<br />
[[fi:Ondoher]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/ondoher]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Calimmacil&diff=373885Calimmacil2023-05-24T11:37:22Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Calimmacil<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=[[Quenya|Q]], {{IPA|[kaˈlimːakil]}}<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth=Mid-18th C. [[Third Age]]<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Arciryas]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Calimmacil''' was a [[Gondorians|Gondorian]] nobleman.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Calimmacil was the son of [[Arciryas]], and therefore a nephew of [[Narmacil II]] ({{TA|1684}}-{{TA|1856|n}}), the 29th [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]. <br />
<br />
Calimmacil had a son, [[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]], and a grandson, [[Eärnil II|Eärnil]].<br />
<br />
Nothing is known about the life of Calimmacil, who enters history because after King [[Ondoher]] and his sons were slain in battle, his grandson Eärnil was chosen to succeed Ondoher to the throne.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Calimmacil'' is [[Quenya]]. It is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains, it probably means "Bright Sword", from ''[[kalima|calima]]'' ("bright") and ''[[macil]]'' ("sword").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-1529288863.html|articlename=Q. ''Calimmacil'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=19 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | TEL | | | | | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | NAR | | | | | | | | | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | CAL | | | | | | | | | | CAM |CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM='''CALIMMACIL'''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | OND | | | | | | DAU | | SIR |OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|DAU=''daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ART | | FAR | | FIR | | MIN | | EAR |ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FIR=[[Fíriel]]<br/><small>''b. {{TA|1896|n}}''</small>|MIN=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|EAR=[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1883|n}} - {{TA|2043|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Calimmacil]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:dunedain:gondoriens:calimmacil]]<br />
[[fi:Calimmacil]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Calimehtar_(King_of_Gondor)&diff=373884Calimehtar (King of Gondor)2023-05-24T11:36:39Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-two|the [[Kings of Gondor|King]] of [[Gondor]]|grandfather of [[Castamir|Castamir the Usurper]]|[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)]]}}<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Calimehtar<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1736}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1856}} - {{TA|1936|n}} (80 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1936}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=200<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Narmacil II]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Ondoher]], Unnamed daughter<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Calimehtar''' ({{TA|1736}}<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}</ref> - {{TA|1936|n}},<ref>{{App|South}}</ref> aged 200 years) was the thirtieth [[King of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Calimehtar's father, [[Narmacil II]], had died in {{TA|1856}} in the [[Battle of the Plains]].<ref name=ta>{{App|TA}}</ref> Determined to avenge this defeat, Calimehtar was preparing for war when messengers came to him from [[Marhwini]] (of the [[Northmen]]) warning him of plans by the [[Wainriders]] to raid [[Calenardhon]] across the [[Undeeps]]. However, the messengers also informed Calimehtar that a revolt of those enslaved after the Battle of the Plains was being prepared and would erupt should the Wainriders become involved in war.<br />
<br />
As quickly as he could in {{TA|1899}} Calimehtar led an army north from [[Ithilien]], making sure that the enemy knew of his movements. Gathering all of their available strength, the Wainriders came down to meet him and the King gave way before them, drawing them away from their homes. A battle developed upon the [[Dagorlad]] which seemed in doubt until upon the flank and rear of the Wainriders fell Calimehtar's horsemen joined with a great ''[[éored]]'' let by Marhwini. Calimehtar's and Marhwini's victory was overwhelming and Gondor enjoyed a respite from war for 45 years.<ref name="Cirion">{{UT|Northmen}}</ref><br />
<br />
In {{TA|1900}} he built the [[Tower of Ecthelion|White Tower]] in [[Minas Anor]].<ref name=ta/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
'''Calimehtar''' is [[Quenya]] for ''Bright Warrior''. It might be a compound of [[cala]] ("light") and [[ohtar|mehtar]] ("warrior") (a possible late variant of ''mahtar''), but it could also be a compound of [[kalima|calima]] ("bright") and [[ohtar]] ("warrior"), although it is unclear why a+o became e.<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-2099306413.html|articlename=Q. ''Calimehtar'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=19 July 2021}}</ref><ref>{{PE|17}}, p. 57</ref><ref>{{WJ|Author}}, Note 15, p. 411</ref><br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | TEL | | | | | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | NAR | | | | | | | | | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | CAL | | | | | | | | | | CAM |CAL='''CALIMEHTAR'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | OND | | | | | | DAU | | SIR |OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|DAU=''daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ART | | FAR | | FIR | | MIN | | EAR |ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|FIR=[[Fíriel]]<br/><small>''b. {{TA|1896|n}}''</small>|MIN=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|EAR=[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1883|n}} - {{TA|2043|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1736}}<br />
| died={{TA|1936}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Narmacil II]]<br />
| list=30th [[King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1856}} - {{TA|1936|n}}<br />
| next=[[Ondoher]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
{{title}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Calimehtar (Sohn von Narmacil II.)]]<br />
[[fi:Calimehtar (Narmacil II:n poika)]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:dunedain:gondoriens:calimehtar_roi_du_gondor]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arciryas&diff=373883Arciryas2023-05-24T11:35:02Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Arciryas<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth=After {{TA|1684}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br />
| siblings=[[Narmacil II|Narmacil]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Calimmacil]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Arciryas''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈarkirʲas]}}) was the younger brother of King [[Narmacil II]]. His great-grandson [[Eärnil II|Eärnil]] would become [[King of Gondor]] after King [[Ondoher]] and both of his sons perished in battle in {{TA|1944}}.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Arciryas'' is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains, it seems to mean "Noble Ship" and to be a compound of [[ara|(a)ra]] ("noble") and [[cirya]] ("ship").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-2363379119.html|articlename=Q. ''Arciryas'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | TAR | | | | |TAR=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1577|n}} - {{TA|1798|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | TEL | | | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | NAR | | | | | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC='''ARCIRYAS'''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | CAL | | | | | | CAM |CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | OND | | DAU | | SIR |OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|DAU=''daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Arciryas]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/arciryas]]<br />
[[fi:Arciryas]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Narmacil_II&diff=373882Narmacil II2023-05-24T11:34:27Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-two|twenty-ninth King of Gondor|seventeenth King|[[Narmacil I]]}}<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Narmacil II<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1684}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1850}} - {{TA|1856|n}} (6 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1856}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Battle of the Plains]]<br />
| age=172<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br />
| siblings=[[Arciryas]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Narmacil II''' ({{TA|1684}}<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}</ref> - {{TA|1856|n}},<ref name="south">{{App|South}}</ref> aged 172 years)was the twenty-ninth [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]. Narmacil was the son and successor to [[Telumehtar Umbardacil]] and brother of [[Arciryas]].<ref name="Gondor">{{App|Gondor}}</ref><br />
<br />
==History==<br />
During Narmacil's reign a new confederacy of many peoples called the [[Wainriders]] appeared from the East. Encouraged by emissaries from [[Sauron]] they suddenly assaulted [[Gondor]].<ref name="Gondor"/> Narmacil brought a great army into the plains south of [[Mirkwood]] and gathered what remnants of the [[Northmen]] he could to meet the threat.<ref>{{UT|Northmen}}</ref> However, these new enemies were stronger and better armed than before, traveling in great wains with warriors mounted in chariots. In the [[Battle of the Plains]] Narmacil was slain north-east of the [[Morannon]]. Thereafter the people of southern and eastern [[Rhovanion]] were enslaved while the border of Gondor was withdrawn to the [[Anduin]].<ref name="Gondor"/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
:''See: [[Narmacil I#Etymology]]''<br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | TAR | | | | |TAR=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1577|n}} - {{TA|1798|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | TEL | | | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | NAR | | | | | | ARC |NAR='''NARMACIL II'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | CAL | | | | | | CAM |CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | OND | | DAU | | SIR |OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1787|n}} - {{TA|1944|n}}''†</small>|DAU=''daughter''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
{{references}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1684}}<br />
| died={{TA|1856}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br />
| list=29th [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1850}} - {{TA|1856|n}}<br />
| next=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Narmacil II.]]<br />
[[fi:Narmacil II]]<br />
[[fr:/encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/narmacil_ii]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Telumehtar_Umbardacil&diff=373881Telumehtar Umbardacil2023-05-24T11:33:58Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Telumehtar<br />
| image=[[File:Telumehtar Umbardacil.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Telumehtar Umbardacil" from [[Middle-earth Role Playing]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=''Umbardacil'' (from {{TA|1810}}: [[Quenya|Q]], "Umbar-victor")<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1632}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1798}} - {{TA|1850|n}} (52 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1850}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=218<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Narmacil II]] and [[Arciryas]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Telumehtar''' ({{TA|1632}}<ref name=TelumehtarC>{{PM|Elendil}}, manuscript C with corrections and expansions, The Southern Line of Gondor: the Anarioni, 28. Telumehtar</ref> - {{TA|1850|n}}<ref>{{App|South}}, year following the name of king Telumehtar Umbardacil</ref>, aged 218 years) was the twenty-eighth [[King of Gondor]]. He succeeded his father [[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]] in {{TA|1798}}.<ref>{{App|South}}, year following the name of king Tarondor</ref><br />
<br />
==History==<br />
In the early years of [[Telumehtar]]'s reign over [[Gondor]], the [[Corsairs of Umbar]] raided the [[Outlands|coasts]] of Gondor as far as the [[Anfalas]].<ref name=Telumehtar>{{App|Gondor}}, entry for king Tarondor</ref><br />
<br />
Recalling the death of [[Minardil]] and rankled by the insolence of the Corsairs, Telumehtar resolved to put an end to these attacks and gathered his forces. In {{TA|1810}} he retook [[Umbar]] by storm<ref name=Telumehtar/> and drove out the Corsairs.<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1810</ref> In that war the last descendants of [[Castamir]] were killed.<ref name=Telumehtar/><br />
<br />
Telumehtar added the epithet ''Umbardacil'' to his name to commemorate his victory. Umbar was held by Gondor throughout Telumehtar's reign.<ref name=Telumehtar/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''[[Telumehtar]]'' is the [[Quenya]] name for the constellation Orion, meaning ("Warrior of the Sky").<ref>{{WJ|Author}}, Note 15, p. 411</ref> Paul Strack explains that the initial element is [[telumë]] ("roof, canopy; heaven, sky") and that the second element might be ''mehtar'' or [[ohtar]] ("warrior").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-2575898013.html|articlename=Q. ''Telumehtar'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
His epithet ''Umbardacil'' means "Conqueror of Umbar",<ref>{{UT|Index}}, entry "Telumehtar"</ref> being a compound of ''Umbar'' + ''[[-ndacil]]'' ("victor, slayer").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-187615837.html|articlename=Q. ''Umbardacil'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=19 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | MIN | | | | |MIN=[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1454|n}} - {{TA|1634|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | TEL | | MIN | | |TEL=[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1516|n}} - {{TA|1636|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minastan]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | CHI | | TAR | | |CHI=''children''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>|TAR=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1577|n}} - {{TA|1798|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | TEL | | |TEL='''TELUMEHTAR<br/>UMBARDACIL'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | NAR | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | CAL | | CAM |CAL=[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1736|n}} - {{TA|1936|n}}''</small>|CAM=[[Calimmacil]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Other versions of the legendarium==<br />
In contrast to the published version where Umbar is retaken by storm and then again held for a while by the kings, the haven and stronghold of the Corsairs of Umbar are stormed and destroyed and Umbar was later reoccupied and rebuilt in the troublous times that later befell Gondor in manuscript C with corrections and expansions of the Heir of Elendil.<ref name=TelumehtarC/><br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| born={{TA|1632}}<br />
| died={{TA|1850}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br />
| list=28th [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1798}} - {{TA|1850|n}}<br />
| next=[[Narmacil II]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Mariners]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/telumehtar]]<br />
[[fi:Umbardacil]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Tarondor_(King_of_Gondor)&diff=373880Tarondor (King of Gondor)2023-05-24T11:33:32Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-two|the [[Kings of Gondor|King]] of [[Gondor]]|[[Kings of Arnor|King]] of [[Arnor]]|[[Tarondor (King of Arnor)]]}}<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Tarondor<br />
| image=[[File:Liz Danforth - Tarondor.png|250px]]<br />
| caption="Tarondor" by [[Liz Danforth]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1577}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1636}} - {{TA|1798|n}} (162 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1798}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=221<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Minastan]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Tarondor''' ({{TA|1577}}<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}</ref> - {{TA|1798|n}},<ref name="south">{{App|South}}</ref> aged 221 years) was the twenty-seventh [[King of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Tarondor became the [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]] when his uncle [[Telemnar]] and all of his children died in the year of the [[Great Plague]], in {{TA|1636}}.<ref name="south"/> During the plague most of the people of [[Osgiliath]] fled the city for the western dales or the woods of [[Ithilien]]. In {{TA|1640}} Tarondor permanently relocated the [[King's House]] to [[Minas Anor]]. There he planted a seedling of the [[White Tree of Gondor#Third White Tree|White Tree]] in the citadel, and undertook the task of reordering the realm and nursing its strength. Due to the depopulation of [[Gondor]] the watch on [[Mordor]] ceased.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref><ref>{{App|TA}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Tarondor'' is a [[Quenya]] name. Its meaning is not glossed, but Paul Strack suggests it means "King of Stones" and is a compound of ''[[tar]]'' ("high", "king") and the plural form of ''[[ondo]]'' ("stone").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-426862149.html|articlename=Q. ''Tarondor'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=27 January 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | MIN | | | | |MIN=[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1454|n}} - {{TA|1634|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | TEL | | MIN | | |TEL=[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1516|n}} - {{TA|1636|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minastan]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | CHI | | TAR | | |CHI=''children''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>|TAR='''TARONDOR'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1577|n}} - {{TA|1798|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | TEL | | |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar<br/>Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | NAR | | ARC |NAR=[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1684|n}} - {{TA|1856|n}}''†</small>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
{{references}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1577}}<br />
| died={{TA|1798}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Telemnar]]<br />
| list=27th [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1636}} - {{TA|1798|n}}<br />
| next=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
{{title}}<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Tarondor (König von Gondor)]]<br />
[[fr:/encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/tarondor]]<br />
[[fi:Tarondor (Gondorin kuningas)]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Minastan&diff=373879Minastan2023-05-24T11:31:13Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Minastan<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth=After {{TA|1516}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Minardil]]<br />
| siblings=[[Telemnar]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Minastan''' was the second son of King [[Minardil]] of [[Gondor]]. <br />
<br />
==History==<br />
In {{TA|1636}}<ref>{{App|TA}}</ref> Minastan's elder brother [[Telemnar]] had sat on their father's throne for just two years when he died with all his heirs in the [[Great Plague]].<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref> Minastan had also died by this time - perhaps he too met his end in the Plague - but he left behind a surviving heir, [[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]], who became the first King of a new line.<ref>{{App|South}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Minastan'' is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains, it might mean "Smith of the Tower" and be a compound of a shortened form ''minas'' of [[minasse]] ("tower") and the suffixal form ''-tan'' of [[tamo]] ("smith, builder").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-96627655.html|articlename=Q. ''Minastan'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | HYA | | |HYA=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1621|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | MIN | | |MIN=[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1454|n}} - {{TA|1634|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | TEL | | MIN |TEL=[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1516|n}} - {{TA|1636|n}}''†</small>|MIN='''MINASTAN'''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | CHI | | TAR |CHI=''children''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>|TAR=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1577|n}} - {{TA|1798|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | TEL |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
{{references}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Minastan]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/minastan]]<br />
[[fi:Minastan]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Telemnar&diff=373878Telemnar2023-05-24T11:30:38Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Telemnar<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1516}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1634}} - {{TA|1636|n}} (2 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1636}}<br />
| deathlocation=During [[Great Plague]]<br />
| age=120<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Minardil]]<br />
| siblings=[[Minastan]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=Unnamed children<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}'''Telemnar''', {{TA|1516}}<ref name="Elendil">{{PM|Elendil}}</ref> - {{TA|1636}},<ref name="South">{{App|South}}</ref> was the twenty-sixth [[King of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Telemnar came to the throne unexpectedly when his father [[Minardil]] was killed in a surprise raid by [[Corsairs of Umbar]]. In response, he began outfitting a fleet to reduce the [[Umbar|Haven of Umbar]], but this work was halted when the [[Great Plague]] struck his realm.<ref name="Elendil"/> The King and all his children died in {{TA|1636}},<ref>{{App|TA}}</ref> as did a large number of the people of [[Gondor]]. The [[White Tree of Gondor#Second White Tree|White Tree]] withered and died, [[Osgiliath]] was partially deserted and began to fall into ruin, and the watch on [[Mordor]] ceased.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref><br />
<br />
With Telemnar and all his heirs deceased, the Kingship passed on to his nephew [[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]], the son of Telemnar's younger brother [[Minastan]].<ref name="South"/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Telemnar'' is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains, it seems to mean "Silver Fire" and be a compound of an assimilated form [[telep]] of [[telpë]] ("silver") and the element [[nár (Quenya)|nár]] ("fire").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-185503219.html|articlename=Q. ''Telemnar'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | HYA | | |HYA=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1621|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | MIN | | |MIN=[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1454|n}} - {{TA|1634|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | TEL | | MIN |TEL='''TELEMNAR'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1516|n}} - {{TA|1636|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minastan]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | CHI | | TAR |CHI=''children''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>|TAR=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1577|n}} - {{TA|1798|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | TEL |TEL=[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar<br/>Umbardacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1632|n}} - {{TA|1850|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1516}}<br />
| died={{TA|1636}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Minardil]]<br />
| list=26th [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1634}} - {{TA|1636|n}}<br />
| next=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Minardil&diff=373877Minardil2023-05-24T11:29:48Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Minardil<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1454}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1621}} - {{TA|1634|n}}<br />
| death={{TA|1634}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Pelargir]]<br />
| age=180<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Telemnar]] and [[Minastan]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Minardil''', {{TA|1454}}<ref name=Elendil>{{PM|Elendil}}, manuscript C, The Southern Line of Gondor: the Anarioni, 25. Minardil</ref> - {{TA|1634|n}},<ref>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor'', Minardil</ref> was the twenty-fifth [[King of Gondor]].<ref>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor''</ref><br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Mindardil ascended the throne after the death of his father [[Hyarmendacil II]] in {{TA|1621}}<ref>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor'', Hyarmendacil II (Vinyarion)</ref> who had defeated the Men of Harad in {{TA|1551}}.<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1551</ref><br />
<br />
Since the end of the [[Kin-strife]], when the sons of [[Castamir|Castamir the Usurper]] escaped to [[Umbar]], the rebels in Umbar had made war upon [[Gondor]], raiding its coast and assailing its ships for generations.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}, entry for king Eldacar</ref><br />
<br />
In {{TA|1634}},<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1634</ref> Minardil was killed in [[Pelargir]] by the [[Corsairs of Umbar]] who were led by the great-grandsons of [[Castamir]], [[Angamaitë]] and [[Sangahyando]].<ref>{{App|Gondor}}, entry for king Minardil</ref><br />
<br />
During Minardil's brief reign his Steward was [[Húrin of Emyn Arnen]]. After Minardil's reign the kings of Gondor always chose their stewards from among Húrin's descendants, and eventually the Stewardship would become hereditary within the [[House of Húrin]].<ref>{{App|Stewards}}, first paragraph</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Minardil'' is a [[Quenya]] name. Its meaning is not glossed, but Paul Strack suggests that it means "Friend of the Tower" and is a compound of a shortened form ''minas'' of [[minasse]] ("tower") and [[-ndil|-(n)dil]] ("friend").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-2435487965.html|articlename=Q. ''Minardil'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ALD | | |ALD=[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1330|n}} - {{TA|1540|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | HYA | | |HYA=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1621|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | MIN | | |MIN='''MINARDIL'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1454|n}} - {{TA|1634|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | TEL | | MIN |TEL=[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1516|n}} - {{TA|1636|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minastan]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | CHI | | TAR |CHI=''children''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>|TAR=[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1577|n}} - {{TA|1798|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Other versions of the legendarium==<br />
In the entry for king Telemnar in Appendix A I (iv) of The Lord of the Rings it is stated that "Minardil, son of Eldacar," was slain at Pelargir. In Appendix A I (ii) The Southern Line Heirs of Anárion Hyarmendacil II (Vinyarion) is the King of Gondor before Minardil. In the entry for the 25th king Minardil in manuscript C of The Heirs of Elendil in The Peoples of Middle-earth it is mentioned that Minardil was at Pelargir and suspected no danger since the crushing of Harad and Umbar by his father. In the entry for the 24th king Vinyarion in manuscript C of The Heirs of Elendil in The Peoples of Middle-earth it is mentioned that Vinyarion took the name Hyarmendakil II in 1551 after a great victory over Harad. These two statements in The Heirs of Elendil seem to imply that Minardil was the son of Vinyarion and thus the great-grandson of Eldacar. It is noteworthy that Appendix A I (iv) does not mention king Aldamir and king Hyarmendacil II (Vinyarion), although both are included in the list of Kings of Gondor in Appendix A I (ii) and in the Tale of Years of The Third Age in Appendix B. It is possible that this is the reason why Aldamir and Vinyarion were overlooked in Appendix A I (iv) in the short sentence mentioning king Minardil. In the opinion of Wayne G. Hammond & Christina Scull "Minardil, son of Eldacar" was an error and should be changed to "Minardil, great-grandson of Eldacar".<ref>{{webcite|author=Wayne G. Hammond & Christina Scull|articleurl=https://www.hammondandscull.com/addenda/rings.html|articlename=Addenda and Corrigenda to the 50th anniversary edition of The Lord of the Rings (2004-5)|website=wayne & christina|accessed=31 October 2021}}</ref> Mark Fisher has the same opinion.<ref>{{webcite|author=Mark Fisher|articleurl=https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/minardil.php|articlename=Minardil|website=The Encyclopedia of Arda|accessed=31 October 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
In manuscript C it is also mentioned that the rebels in Umbar had become much mixed in blood through the admission of Men of Harad and that only their chieftains, the descendants of Kastamir, were of Númenórean race and that the leaders of the Corsairs of Umbar, Angomaite and Sangahyanda made the raid up the river [[Anduin]], ravaged Pelargir and the coasts, killed Minardil and escaped with great booty after the had learned through spies that Minardil was at Pelargir and that he suspected not danger.<ref name=Elendil/> In the preceeding manuscript B it is mentioned that the sons of Kastamir and other members of his family established a small "kingdom" in Umbar and created a fortified haven there and that they married women of the Harad and had lost much of their Númenórean blood in three generations, but had not forgotten their feud with Gondor and had killed Minardil in Pelargir with almost the same description as in manuscript C.<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}, Commentary, Minardil</ref> J.R.R. Tolkien did not mention any intermarriage between the Númenórean rebels in Umbar with the Haradrim in Appendix A, despite mentioning a mingling of the blood of the Dúnedain with that of lesser Men in Gondor itself after the return of Eldacar and that those descendants of the kings, on whom the suspicion of the kings fell, who had not fled to Umbar, had married women who were not of Númenórean blood. In the second edition of The Lord of the Rings he also did not reinsert a statement about intermarriage between the Corsairs of Umbar and the Haradrim, but expanded the description of the events during the life of Romendakil II (Minalkar) and Valakar that led up to the Kin-strife.<ref>{{PM|Ai}}, Note on the expansion of the tale of the Kin-strife in the Second Edition</ref><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1454}}<br />
| died={{TA|1634}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br />
| list=25th [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1621}} - {{TA|1634|m}}<br />
| next=[[Telemnar]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Minardil]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/minardil]]<br />
[[fi:Minardil]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Hyarmendacil_II&diff=373876Hyarmendacil II2023-05-24T11:28:42Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Hyarmendacil II<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=''Vinyarion''<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1391}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1540}} - {{TA|1621|n}} (81 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1621}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=230<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Aldamir]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Minardil]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}{{Pronounce|Hyarmendacil.mp3|Ardamir}}<br />
'''Hyarmendacil II''', born with the name '''Vinyarion''' ({{TA|1391}}<ref name=Elendil>{{PM|Elendil}}, manuscript C, The Southern Line of Gondor: the Anarioni, 24. Vinyarion</ref> - {{TA|1621}}<ref name=Vinyarion>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor'', Hyarmendacil II (Vinyarion)</ref>), was the twenty-fourth [[King of Gondor]].<ref>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor''</ref><br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Vinyarion ascended the throne after his father [[Aldamir]] was killed in a battle with the Harad and the [[Corsairs of Umbar]] in {{TA|1540}}.<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1540</ref> Eleven years later, in {{TA|1551}}, he defeated the Men of the Harad<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1551</ref> and took the name Hyarmendacil II.<ref name=Vinyarion/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Vinyarion'' is a[[Quenya]] name. Its meaning is not glossed, but Paul Strack suggests that it means "New Son" and is a compound of [[vinya]] ("new") and the suffix [[ion]] ("son").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-2639865435.html|articlename=Q. ''Vinyarion'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
''Hyarmendacil'' is a [[Quenya]] name. It means "South-victor".<ref>{{App|Gondor}}, entry for king Ciryaher</ref> It is a compound of [[hyarmen]] ("south") and [[-ndacil|-(n)dacil]] ("victor").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-2262790545.html|articlename=Q. ''Hyarmendacil'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ELD | | | | |ELD=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1255|n}} - {{TA|1490|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | ORN | | ALD | | |ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1437|n}}''†</small>|ALD=[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1330|n}} - {{TA|1540|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | HYA | | |HYA='''HYARMENDACIL II'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1621|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | MIN | | |MIN=[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1454|n}} - {{TA|1634|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | TEL | | MIN |TEL=[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1516|n}} - {{TA|1636|n}}''†</small>|MIN=[[Minastan]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Other versions of the legendarium==<br />
In a late manuscript of what would later become Appendix A, it is mentioned that Vinyarion took the name Hyarmendakil II in 1551 after a great victory over Harad in revenge for the death of his father Aldamir.<ref name=Elendil/><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1391}}<br />
| died={{TA|1621}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Aldamir]]<br />
| list=24th [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1540}} - {{TA|1621|n}}<br />
| next=[[Minardil]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Hyarmendacil II.]]<br />
[[fr:/encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/hyarmendacil_ii]]<br />
[[fi:Hyarmendacil II]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Aldamir&diff=373875Aldamir2023-05-24T11:28:07Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Aldamir<br />
| image=[[File:Matěj Čadil - Aldamir of Gondor.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Aldamir of Gondor" by [[:Category:Images by Matěj Čadil|Matěj Čadil]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth={{TA|1330}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1490}} - {{TA|1540|n}} (50 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1540}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=210<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=<br />
| parentage=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br />
| siblings=[[Ornendil]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Aldamir''' ([[Quenya|Q]]: "Tree-jewel", pron. {{IPA|[ˈaldamir]}}; {{TA|1330}}<ref name=Elendil>{{PM|Elendil}}, The Southern Line of Gondor: the Anarioni, 23. Aldamir</ref> - {{TA|1540}}<ref name=Aldamir>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor'', Aldamir</ref>) was the twenty-third King of [[Gondor]] ([[Castamir]] being counted the twenty-second).<ref>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor''</ref><br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Aldamir was the younger son of [[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]],<ref name=Aldamir/> but succeeded his father after the death of his father, because his brother [[Ornendil]] had been killed by an order from [[Castamir|Castamir the Usurper]] during the [[Kin-strife]],<ref name=Eldacar>{{App|Gondor}}, entry for king Eldacar</ref> in {{TA|1437}}.<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1437</ref> Castamir later paid with his life for the killing of Ornendil, but the sons of the Usurper escaped and established an independent and hostile lordship in [[Umbar]].<ref name=Eldacar/><br />
<br />
Aladamir was killed during a war with the Harad and the Corsairs of Umbar.<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1540</ref> He was succeeded by his son [[Vinyarion]]<ref name=Vinyarion>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor'', Hyarmendacil II (Vinyarion)</ref> in {{TA|1540}},<ref name=Aldamir/> who defeated the Men of Harad in {{TA|1551}}<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1551</ref> and took the name Hyarmendacil II.<ref name=Vinyarion/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Aldamir'' is a [[Quenya]] name. Its meaning is not glossed, but Paul Strack suggests that it means "Tree Jewel", from ''[[alda]]'' ("tree") and ''[[mírë]]'' ("jewel").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-1126937443.html|articlename=Q. ''Aldamir'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=29 October 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | CAL | | |NAR=[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1049|n}} - {{TA|1294|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1058|n}} - {{TA|1304|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID | | ROM | | CAL |VID=[[Vidugavia]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|ROM=[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1126|n}} - {{TA|1366|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID |y| VAL | | |:| |VID=[[Vidumavi]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1332|n}}''</small>|VAL=[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1194|n}} - {{TA|1432|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ELD | | | | CAS |ELD=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1255|n}} - {{TA|1490|n}}''</small>|CAS=[[Castamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1259|n}} - {{TA|1447|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ORN | | ALD | | SON |ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1437|n}}''†</small>|ALD='''ALDAMIR'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1330|n}} - {{TA|1540|n}}''†</small>|SON=''sons''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | HYA | | | | |HYA=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1621|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | MIN | | | | |MIN=[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1454|n}} - {{TA|1634|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Other verions of the legendarium==<br />
A late manuscript of what would later become Appendix A also mentions that Aldamir was the third child of Eldacar, which implies that he also had a sister, that his brother Ornendil was killed in {{TA|1446}} and that Aldamir was killed in a war with rebelling kings of Harad that were allied with the rebels of Umbar.<ref name=Elendil/> <br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1330}}<br />
| died={{TA|1540}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br />
| list=23rd [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1490}} - {{TA|1540|n}}<br />
| next=[[Hyarmendacil II|Hyarmendacil&nbsp;II]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Aldamir]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/aldamir]]<br />
[[fi:Aldamir]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ornendil&diff=373874Ornendil2023-05-24T11:27:37Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Ornendil<br />
| image=[[File:Kent Burles - The Capture of Ornendil.png|250px]]<br />
| caption="The Capture of Ornendil" by [[:Category:Images by Kent Burles|Kent Burles]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth=Before {{TA|1330}}<ref name=Elendil>{{PM|Elendil}}, The Southern Line of Gondor: the Anarioni, 23. Aldamir</ref><br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death={{TA|1437}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=107+<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br />
| siblings=[[Aldamir]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Ornendil''' was the older<ref>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor'', Aldamir</ref> son of King [[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]] of [[Gondor]].<ref name=Ornendil>{{App|Gondor}}, entry for king Eldacar</ref> <br />
<br />
==History==<br />
In {{TA|1432}} Ornendil's grandfather, King [[Valacar]] died and the civil war of the [[Kin-strife]] began<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1432</ref>, because some of the [[Dúnedain]], especially in the southern provinces refused to accept Eldacar as their new king, who had been born in an alien country and whose mother [[Vidumavi]] was perceived by them to be of a lesser race and alien race. [[Castamir|Castamir the Usurper]], one of the leaders of the rebels against his father Eldacar, besieged [[Osgiliath]], which Eldacar held for a long time.<ref name=Ornendil/> In {{TA|1437}}<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1437</ref> the forces of Castamir took and burnt Osgiliath. Though [[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]] managed to escape to his kinfolk in [[Rhovanion]], Ornendil was captured, and put to death by Castamir.<ref name=Ornendil/> Ten years later, in {{TA|1447}},<ref>{{App|TA}}, entry for the year 1447</ref> Eldacar managed to avenge his son's death by killing Castamir in the [[Battle of the Crossings of Erui]].<ref name=Ornendil/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
Ornendil is a [[Quenya]] name. It means "Lover of Trees".<ref>{{NM|P1iii}}, footnote 1</ref> It is a compound of [[orne]] ("tree") and [[-ndil|-(n)dil]] ("lover", "friend").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-3384274191.html|articlename=Q. ''Ornendil'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=29 April 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | CAL | | |NAR=[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1049|n}} - {{TA|1294|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1058|n}} - {{TA|1304|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID | | ROM | | CAL |VID=[[Vidugavia]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|ROM=[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1126|n}} - {{TA|1366|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID |y| VAL | | |:| |VID=[[Vidumavi]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1332|n}}''</small>|VAL=[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1194|n}} - {{TA|1432|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ELD | | | | CAS |ELD=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1255|n}} - {{TA|1490|n}}''</small>|CAS=[[Castamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1259|n}} - {{TA|1447|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ORN | | ALD | | SON |ORN='''ORNENDIL'''<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1437|n}}''†</small>|ALD=[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1330|n}} - {{TA|1540|n}}''†</small>|SON=''sons''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | HYA | | | | |HYA=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1621|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | MIN | | | | |MIN=[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1454|n}} - {{TA|1634|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Other verions of the legendarium==<br />
A late manuscript of what would later become Appendix A mentions that Ornendil was killed in {{TA|1446}} and that his brother Aldamir was the third child of Eldacar, which implies that Ornendil also had a sister.<ref name=Elendil/><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Ornendil]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/ornendil]]<br />
[[fi:Ornendil]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Castamir&diff=373873Castamir2023-05-24T11:27:02Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Castamir<br />
| image=[[File:Matěj Čadil - Castamir the Usurper of Gondor.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Castamir the Usurper of Gondor" by [[:Category:Images by Matěj Čadil|Matěj Čadil]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames="The Usurper"<br />
| titles=[[Captain of Ships]], [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1259}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1437}} – {{TA|1447|n}} (10 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1447}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=188<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=''unknown'', grandfather [[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Castamir "The Usurper"''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈkastamir]}}; {{TA|1259}}<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}</ref> – {{TA|1447|n}},<ref>{{App|South}}</ref> aged 188 years) usurped the throne of [[Gondor]] from [[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]], ruling from {{TA|1437|n}} to {{TA|1447|n}}, until he was violently deposed.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Castamir was the grandson of [[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]], the younger son of [[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]], the eighteenth [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]. Although not a direct heir to the throne he was a noble of realm and became the [[Captain of Ships]].<br />
<br />
When [[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]] ascended to the throne in {{TA|1432}} a civil war broke out in [[Gondor]]. Eldacar's mother had been [[Vidumavi]], a princess from [[Rhovanion]] and not of [[Númenórean]] descent. It was unheard of for an heir to the throne to come from one of an alien and lesser race, as viewed by the [[Dúnedain]], and many feared that her shorter lifespan would diminish the majesty of the Kings. Before Eldacar's ascension rebellion brewed in Gondor, especially in the southern parts, and when he became King full civil war broke out.<br />
<br />
Castamir joined the rebellion and being nearest in blood to the crown as well as having the greatest following (due to his support by the people of the coasts and havens of [[Pelargir]] and [[Umbar]]) he became its leader. He led the rebel forces that besieged Eldacar in [[Osgiliath]] and forced the King to flee to his kinsfolk in Rhovanion. The nature of Castamir's character became apparent during the long siege for he not only caused slaughter and destruction in Osgiliath beyond the demands of war, he also had [[Ornendil]], Eldacar's son, put to death when the city fell.<br />
<br />
In Eldacar's absence, Castamir seized the throne. After having shown great cruelty during the war, he further alienated his subjects by being haughty and ungenerous. He also planned to remove the King's seat to Pelargir, a proposal that lowered Castamir in the eyes of the people of [[Minas Anor]] and [[Ithilien]].<br />
<br />
In the north, Eldacar forged an army composed of his kinsfolk, those Northmen who had been in the service of Gondor, and a growing number of disaffected Dúnedain from the northern parts of the realm. In {{TA|1447}} Eldacar marched south and his army was augmented by folks from [[Calenardhon]], [[Anórien]], and Ithilien. Castamir's forces met Eldacar's army in [[Lebennin]] where the [[Battle of the Crossings of Erui]] was fought. Much of the best blood of Gondor was lost in the fray. Eldacar himself slew Castamir in the fight and thus reclaimed his Kingship.<br />
<br />
However, Castamir's sons escaped from the battle and withdrew their father's forces into Pelargir. There they withstood a siege until they could sail away to Umbar. This city and haven became a lordship independent of Gondor and a refuge for all enemies of the realm, a threat that would last for centuries.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Castamir'' is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains, the final element of this name is probably ''[[mírë]]'' ("jewel").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-1935153091.html|articlename=Q. ''Castamir'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=29 October 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
The first element, ''casta'', is not translated, but it could be a variant of ''[[cassa]]'' "helmet". In that case, his name means "helmet-jewel" or "jewelled helmet"<br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | CAL | | | | |NAR=[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1049|n}} - {{TA|1294|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1058|n}} - {{TA|1304|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID | | ROM | | CAL | | |VID=[[Vidugavia]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|ROM=[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1126|n}} - {{TA|1366|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |:| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID |y| VAL | | |:| | | |VID=[[Vidumavi]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1332|n}}''</small>|VAL=[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1194|n}} - {{TA|1432|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | | | |:| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ELD | | | | CAS | | |ELD=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1255|n}} - {{TA|1490|n}}''</small>|CAS='''CASTAMIR'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1259|n}} - {{TA|1447|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | ORN | | ALD | | SON | | |ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1437|n}}''†</small>|ALD=[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1330|n}} - {{TA|1540|n}}''†</small>|SON=''sons''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | HYA | | |:| | | |HYA=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1621|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | |F|~|A|~|7| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | |:| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | ANG | | SAN |ANG=[[Angamaitë]]<br/><small>''fl. {{TA|1634|n}}''</small>|SAN=[[Sangahyando]]<br/><small>''fl. {{TA|1634|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1259}}<br />
| died={{TA|1447}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br />
| list=22nd [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1437}} – {{TA|1447}}<br />
| next=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Mariners]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Castamir]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:dunedain:gondoriens:castamir]]<br />
[[fi:Castamir]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Eldacar_(King_of_Gondor)&diff=373872Eldacar (King of Gondor)2023-05-24T11:26:30Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{disambig-more|Eldacar|[[Eldacar (disambiguation)]]}}<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Eldacar<br />
| image=[[File:Matěj Čadil - Eldacar of Gondor.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Eldacar of Gondor" by [[Matěj Čadil]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=''Vinitharya''<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1255}}<br />
| birthlocation= [[Rhovanion]]<br />
| rule={{TA|1432}} - {{TA|1437|n}}<br/>{{TA|1447}} - {{TA|1490|n}}<br />
| death={{TA|1490}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=235<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Valacar]] and [[Vidumavi]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Ornendil]] and [[Aldamir]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
{{quote|To the lineage of Gondor he added the fearless spirit of the Northmen. He was handsome and valiant, and showed no sign of ageing more swiftly than his father.|[[Appendix A]]}}<br />
<br />
'''Eldacar''' ({{TA|1255}}<ref name="Elendil">{{PM|Elendil}}</ref> – {{TA|1490|n}},<ref>{{App|South}}</ref> aged 235 years) was the twenty-first King of [[Gondor]]. He was born with the name '''Vinitharya''' as the royal son of [[Valacar]] of Gondor and [[Vidumavi]], daughter of the [[King of Rhovanion]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Eldacar's father Valacar had gone to live among the [[Northmen]] of King [[Vidugavia]]'s realm in {{TA|1250}}. While there Valacar fell in love with and married the King's daughter, princess Vidumavi. Their son was named Vinitharya, would later be called Eldacar.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}, entry for king Minalcar who took the name Rómendacil (II) and entry for king Valacar</ref> In {{TA|1260|n}}, when Valacar returned to Gondor, he gave to Vinitharya the name of Eldacar, which Vinitharya retained when he inherited Gondor's throne. Valacar had also brought his family and a household of noble Northmen back to Gondor.<ref>{{PM|Ai}}</ref><br />
<br />
The high men of [[Gondor]] frowned upon Valacar's marriage to a woman of alien and [[Middle Men|"lesser" race]] for they feared that Vidumavi's descendants would prove short-lived. As Valacar grew old rebellion smouldered in the southern fiefs of Gondor since many refused to accept Eldacar as their upcoming lord. When Eldacar succeeded his father in {{TA|1432}} full civil war erupted, called the [[Kin-strife]].<ref name="Gondor">{{App|TA}}</ref><br />
<br />
Eldacar showed no sign of more rapid aging than any of the [[Dúnedain]] and displayed fearlessness in opposing those who sought to depose him. However, the rebels came against him in great strength and lay a siege that laid waste to [[Osgiliath]] (and caused the loss of the ''[[Osgiliath-stone|palantír]]'' kept in the Tower of the Stone). As Eldacar fled the city to [[Rhovanion]] a distant relative named [[Castamir]] claimed his throne and had Eldacar's son [[Ornendil]] put to death.<br />
<br />
Eldacar gathered together his kinsfold in Rhovanion, those Northmen who had served Gondor, and many of the Dúnedain from the northern parts of Gondor. After ten years of exile Eldacar led a great army to reclaim his Kingship. His forces were augmented by the people of [[Calenardhon]], [[Anórien]], and [[Ithilien]]. In this he was aided by the cruelty and lack of generosity of Castamir, and by Castamir's disdain for the land with his plan to remove the seat of the King to [[Pelargir]]. The [[Battle of the Crossings of Erui|greatest clash]] during Eldacar's return took place at the [[Crossings of Erui]].<br />
<br />
Although Eldacar himself avenged his son Ornendil by slaying Castamir, the sons of the Usurper escaped from the battle and held out at Pelargir. Gathering the remainder of their forces these sons then sailed to [[Umbar]] which then became a refuge for all enemies of the King. The independent lordship of Umbar would remain at war with Gondor for generations, a constant threat to its coastlines and sea traffic.<br />
<br />
Eldacar lived for 235 years, which showed that his mother's lineage had not diminished his lifespan as feared. Eventually he was succeeded by his younger son [[Aldamir]].<ref name="Elendil"/><br />
<br />
== Etymology ==<br />
''Eldacar'' is a [[Quenya]] name. It means "Elfhelm".<ref>{{TI|River}}, note 18, p. 366</ref> It is a compound of ''[[elda]]'' ("elf") and the suffixal form ''-car'' of ''[[karma|carma]]'' ("helm") also seen in [[Valacar]].<ref>{{PE|17}}, p. 114 entry Q ''Eldacar; Valacar''</ref><ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-2436216133.html|articlename=Q. ''Eldacar'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=27 January 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
''Vinitharya'' is a name in the language of the [[Northmen]] that was spoken by his mother Vidumavi.<ref>{{App|Gondor}}, entry for King Valacar, pp. 1046</ref> It is said that the name had much the same meaning as Rómendacil,<ref>{{PM|Ai}}, Note on the expansion of the tale of the Kin-strife in the Second Edition, entry 19 Romendakil II, p. 260</ref> which means "East-victor".<ref>{{App|Gondor}}, entry for King Tarostar, p. 1044</ref> [[Arden R. Smith]] suggests that it is a modified form of the original reconstructed [[Gothic]] name ''*Winiþa-harjis'', which means "one who battles the Wends". The [[Wikipedia:Wends|Wends]] or ''Winedas'' (in [[Old English]]) were a Slavic people who dwelt inside Germanic territories. He further suggests that the original name that was fictitiously translated by Tolkien as ''Vinitharya'' referred to [[Easterlings]] instead of Wends. The historical bearer of this name, who was called ''Venetharius'' by [[Wikipedia:Jordanes|Jordanes]], an Eastern Roman writer from the sixth century who is believed to be of Gothic descent, was a king of the Ostrogoths of the fourth century and was the grandfather of Theodoric the Great.<ref>[[Arden R. Smith]], Tolkienian Gothic, in [[Wayne G. Hammond]] & [[Christina Scull]], [[The Lord of the Rings 1954-2004]]: Scholarship in Honor of Richard E. Blackwelder, p. 269</ref> [[Jim Allan]] suggests that the name consists of ''vinid'' (a reference to the ''Vinidi'', the Wends) and ''harya'' derived from ''hari'' ("army"), which could be rendered "man-at-arms" and points out that Jordanes mentioned ''Vinitharius'' as the name of an ancient king of the Ostrogoths.<ref>{{HM|IE}}, p. 190</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | CAL | | |NAR=[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1049|n}} - {{TA|1294|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1058|n}} - {{TA|1304|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID | | ROM | | CAL |VID=[[Vidugavia]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|ROM=[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1126|n}} - {{TA|1366|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID |y| VAL | | |:| |VID=[[Vidumavi]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1332|n}}''</small>|VAL=[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1194|n}} - {{TA|1432|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ELD | | | | CAS |ELD='''ELDACAR'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1255|n}} - {{TA|1490|n}}''</small>|CAS=[[Castamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1259|n}} - {{TA|1447|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ORN | | ALD | | SON |ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1437|n}}''†</small>|ALD=[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1330|n}} - {{TA|1540|n}}''†</small>|SON=''sons''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | HYA | | | | |HYA=[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1391|n}} - {{TA|1621|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Other versions of the legendarium==<br />
In the entry for king Telemnar in Appendix A I (iv) of The Lord of the Rings it is stated that "Mindardil, son of Eldacar," was slain at Pelargir. In Appendix A I (ii) The Southern Line Heirs of Anárion Hyarmendacil II (Vinyarion) is the King of Gondor before Mindardil. In the entry for the 25th king Minardil in manuscript C of The Heirs of Elendil in The Peoples of Middle-earth it is mentioned that Minardil was at Pelargir suspecting no peril since the crushing of Harad and Umbar by his father. In the entry for the 24th king Vinyarion in manuscript C of The Heirs of Elendil in The Peoples of Middle-earth it is mentioned that Vinyarion took the name Hyarmendakil II in 1551 after a great victory over Harad. These two statements in The Heirs of Elendil seem to imply that Minardil was the son of Vinyarion and thus the great-grandson of Eldacar. It is noteworthy that Appendix A I (iv) does not mention king Aldamir and king Hyarmendacil II (Vinyarion), although both are included in the list of Kings of Gondor in Appendix A I (ii) and in the Tale of Years of The Third Age in Appendix B. It is possible that this is the reason why Aldamir and Vinyarion were overlooked in Appendix A I (iv) in the short sentence mentioning king Minardil. In the opinion of Wayne G. Hammond & Christina Scull "Minardil, son of Eldacar" was an error and should be changed to "Minardil, great-grandson of Eldacar".<ref>{{webcite|author=Wayne G. Hammond & Christina Scull|articleurl=https://www.hammondandscull.com/addenda/rings.html|articlename=Addenda and Corrigenda to the 50th anniversary edition of The Lord of the Rings (2004-5)|website=wayne & christina|accessed=31 October 2021}}</ref> Mark Fisher has the same opinion.<ref>{{webcite|author=Mark Fisher|articleurl=https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/minardil.php|articlename=Minardil|website=The Encyclopedia of Arda|accessed=31 October 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1255}}<br />
| died={{TA|1490}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Valacar]]<br />
| list=21st [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1432}} – {{TA|1437|n}}<br />
| next=[[Castamir]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Castamir|Castamir "The Usurper"]]<br />
| list=21st [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]] (restored)<br />
| dates={{TA|1447}} - {{TA|1490|n}}<br />
| next=[[Aldamir]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
{{title}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Northmen]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Eldacar (König von Gondor)]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:dunedain:gondoriens:eldacar]]<br />
[[fi:Eldacar (Gondorin kuningas)]]<br />
[[fi:Vinitharya]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Valacar&diff=373871Valacar2023-05-24T11:25:46Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Valacar<br />
| image=[[File:Matěj Čadil - Valacar of Gondor.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Valacar of Gondor" by [[:Category:Images by Matěj Čadil|Matěj Čadil]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]], language of the [[Northmen]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1194}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1366}} - {{TA|1432|n}} (66 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1432}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=238<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Rómendacil II]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=[[Vidumavi]]<br />
| children=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}'''Valacar''' ({{TA|1194}}<ref name=Elendil>{{PM|Elendil}}, The Southern Line of Gondor: the Anarioni, 20. Valakar</ref> – {{TA|1432|n}},<ref>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor'', Valacar</ref> aged 238 years) was the twentieth [[King of Gondor]].<ref>{{App|South}}, ''Kings of Gondor''</ref><br />
<br />
==History==<br />
in {{TA|1250}} Valacar's father, [[Minalcar]], the regent of Gondor, who had taken the name Rómendacil after his victory over a large army of [[Easterlings]] sent Valacar as an ambassador to [[Vidugavia]], a prince of the [[Northmen]] who called himself [[King of Rhovanion]] whose realm was between [[Mirkwood]] and the [[River Running]] and who had helped Gondor in the war against the Easterlings. Minalcar charged Valacar to learn the language, manners and policies of the [[Northmen]]. Valacar learned to love the country and the the Northmen and married [[Vidumavi]], the daughter of Vidugavia. During this stay in Rhovanion his son Eldacar was born who also received the name Vinitharya in the language of the Northmen. After some years Valacar returned to Gondor. The high men of Gondor disapproved that the heir to the crown had married a woman of a lesser and alien race. Vidumavi was a beautiful and noble lady, but had a shorter life compared to the longer lifeexpectancy of the Dúnedain. Some Dúnedain feared that his descendants would also have a short life and fall from the majesty of the Kings of Men and did not want to accept Valacar as their lord. When Valacar grew old there was rebellion in the southern provinces.<ref name="Gondor">{{App|Gondor}}, entry for Minalcar (Rómendacil II)</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Valacar'' is a [[Quenya]] name. It is a compound of ''[[Vala]]'' and the suffixal form ''-car'' of ''[[karma|carma]]'' "helm", also seen in [[Eldacar]] "Elf-helm".<ref>{{PE|17}}, p. 114 entry Q ''Eldacar; Valacar''</ref> Paul Strack suggests the name Valacar means "Vala helm".<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-4025193527.html|articlename=Q. ''Valacar'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=05 March 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | CAL | | |NAR=[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1049|n}} - {{TA|1294|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1058|n}} - {{TA|1304|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID | | ROM | | CAL |VID=[[Vidugavia]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|ROM=[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1126|n}} - {{TA|1366|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID |y| VAL | | |:| |VID=[[Vidumavi]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1332|n}}''</small>|VAL='''VALACAR'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1194|n}} - {{TA|1432|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ELD | | | | CAS |ELD=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1255|n}} - {{TA|1490|n}}''</small>|CAS=[[Castamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1259|n}} - {{TA|1447|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree | ORN | | ALD | | SON |ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1437|n}}''†</small>|ALD=[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1330|n}} - {{TA|1540|n}}''†</small>|SON=''sons''<br/><small>''unknown''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Other versions of the legendarium==<br />
A late manuscript of what would later become the entry for Minalcar, Valacar and Eldacar in Appendix A in the second edition of The Lord of the Rings, also mentions that Romendakil gave his approval to the marriage, because he wanted to avoid angering the Northmen and earning the enmity of Vidugavia that a refusal of the marriage would have caused. It also mentions that Minalkcar called back Valakar to Gondor in {{TA|1240}} and that a household of noble men and women of the Northmen accompanied Valakar and his wife and children to Gondor. It is further mentioned that Valakar gave the name Eldakar to his son for public use in Gondor. <ref>{{PM|Ai}}, Note on the expansion of the tale of the Kin-strife in the Second Edition, typescript D of The Heirs of Elendil, 19. Romendakil II</ref><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1194}}<br />
| died={{TA|1432}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Rómendacil II]]<br />
| list=20th [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1366}} - {{TA|1432|n}}<br />
| next=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Valacar]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/valacar]]<br />
[[fi:Valacar]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Calimehtar_(son_of_Calmacil)&diff=373870Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)2023-05-24T11:25:05Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-two|the grandfather of [[Castamir]]|[[Kings of Gondor|King]] of [[Gondor]]|[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)]]}}<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Calimehtar<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth=After {{TA|1126}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br />
| siblings=[[Rómendacil II|Minalcar]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=''unknown'', grandson [[Castamir|Castamir the Usurper]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Calimehtar''' was a nobleman of the Royal House of [[Gondor]], the younger son of King [[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Calimehtar was the younger brother of the famous [[Rómendacil II]]. His direct impact on history was negligible, and indeed he is not mentioned in the annals of his own time at all. He had a lasting legacy, though, in the shape of his grandson [[Castamir]], who used the fact of his descent from Calimehtar as a pretext for usurping the throne of Gondor during the bloody times known as the [[Kin-strife]].<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Calimehtar'' is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains it may mean "Bright Warrior" and may be a compound of ''[[cala]]'' ("light") and ''mehtar'' ("warrior"), but it could also be a compound of ''calima'' ("bright")<ref>{{L|211}}, answer to Question 1</ref> and ''[[ohtar]]'' ("warrior").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-2099306413.html|articlename=Q. ''Calimehtar'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=29 October 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | ATA | | | | |ATA=[[Atanatar II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|977|n}} - {{TA|1226|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | NAR | | CAL | | |NAR=[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1049|n}} - {{TA|1294|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1058|n}} - {{TA|1304|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID | | ROM | | CAL |VID=[[Vidugavia]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|ROM=[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1126|n}} - {{TA|1366|n}}''</small>|CAL='''CALIMEHTAR'''<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID |y| VAL | | |:| |VID=[[Vidumavi]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1332|n}}''</small>|VAL=[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1194|n}} - {{TA|1432|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ELD | | | | CAS |ELD=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1255|n}} - {{TA|1490|n}}''</small>|CAS=[[Castamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1259|n}} - {{TA|1447|n}}''</small>†}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{title}}<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Calimehtar (Sohn von Calmacil)]]<br />
[[fr:/encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/calimehtar_fils_de_calmacil]]<br />
[[fi:Calimehtar (Calmacilin poika)]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=R%C3%B3mendacil_II&diff=373869Rómendacil II2023-05-24T11:24:33Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-two|the nineteenth [[Kings of Gondor|King]] of [[Gondor]]|King who ruled 800 years earlier|[[Rómendacil I]]}}<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Rómendacil II<br />
| image=[[File:Matěj Čadil - Rómendacil II of Gondor.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Rómendacil II of Gondor" by [[Matěj Čadil]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=''Minalcar''<br />
| titles=[[Regent of Gondor]], [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1126}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=({{TA|1240}} as Regent) {{TA|1304}} - {{TA|1366|n}} (62 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1366}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=240<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br />
| siblings=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Valacar]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Rómendacil II''' ({{TA| 1126}}<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}</ref> – {{TA|1366|n}}<ref>{{App|South}}</ref>, aged 240 years), born '''Minalcar''', was the nineteenth [[King of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
[[Minalcar]] was the son of prince Calmacil and nephew of King [[Narmacil I]].<br />
<br />
A vigourous man, as his uncle King [[Narmacil I]] recognized, in order to unburden himself from the cares of government, the indolent King appointed Minalcar as [[Regent of Gondor|Regent of the realm]] in {{TA|1240}}. When Narmacil died with no child, Minalcar's father Calmacil succeeded to the throne. Calmacil, coming to the Kingship in his old age, kept Minalcar in his position as Regent. From then until his father's death in {{TA|1304|n}}, Minalcar ruled in the name of the kings before becoming King in his own right.<br />
<br />
As Regent, Minalcar's main concern was the state of the North. In the wide lands beyond the [[Anduin]] the [[Northmen]] had multiplied. These people had been shown favour by the Kings in the past but when, in the days of Narmacil I, the [[Easterlings]] resumed their attacks it was discovered that not all of the Northmen adhered to [[Gondor]]. To secure the region, in {{TA|1248}} Minalcar led a great force that defeated a large Easterling army between [[Rhovanion]] and the [[Sea of Rhûn]], and even destroyed their encampments east of the Sea. Minalcar then took the name Rómendacil or "East-victor".<br />
<br />
After his victory Rómendacil fortified the western shore of the Anduin up to the River [[Limlight]], and had the [[Argonath|Pillars of the Argonath]] built above [[Nen Hithoel]]. Seeking to increase Gondor's manpower, Rómendacil brought many Northmen into his service. To one leader, [[Vidugavia]], who called himself the [[King of Rhovanion]], Rómendacil showed special favour. He sent his son [[Valacar]] in {{TA|1250}} to live with Vidugavia as Gondor's ambassador.<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Minalcar'' is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains, it might mean "First Glory" and be a compound of [[minya]] ("first") and [[alcar]] ("glory").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-2773104749.html|articlename=Q. ''Minalcar'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
''Rómendacil'' is [[Quenya]]. It means "East-victor".<ref>{{App|Gondor}}, second paragraph</ref> It is a compound of [[rómen]] ("east") and [[-ndacil|-(n)dacil]] ("victor").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-891723029.html|articlename=Q. ''Rómendacil'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=28 July 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | ATA | | | | |ATA=[[Atanatar II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|977|n}} - {{TA|1226|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | NAR | | CAL | | |NAR=[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1049|n}} - {{TA|1294|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1058|n}} - {{TA|1304|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID | | ROM | | CAL |VID=[[Vidugavia]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>|ROM='''RÓMENDACIL II'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1126|n}} - {{TA|1366|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | VID |y| VAL | | |:| |VID=[[Vidumavi]]<br/><small>''d. {{TA|1332|n}}''</small>|VAL=[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1194|n}} - {{TA|1432|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ELD | | | | CAS |ELD=[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1255|n}} - {{TA|1490|n}}''</small>|CAS=[[Castamir]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1259|n}} - {{TA|1447|n}}''†</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1126}}<br />
| died={{TA|1366}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| pvac=None<br />
| prev=Position created<br />
| list=[[Regent of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1240}} - {{TA|1304|n}}<br />
| nvac=None<br />
| next=Became King<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br />
| list=19th [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates={{TA|1304}} - {{TA|1366|n}}<br />
| next=[[Valacar]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Romendacil II}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Rómendacil II.]]<br />
[[fr:/encyclo/personnages/hommes/3a/dunedain/gondoriens/romendacil_ii]]<br />
[[fi:Rómendacil II]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hyarion&diff=373856User talk:Hyarion2023-05-24T07:22:19Z<p>Shivam: /* Few Doubts */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{| style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background-color: #f9f9f9; color: black; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 1em; padding: 0.2em; float: right; clear: right;"<br />
|-<br />
!align="center"|[[Image:archive.png|50px|Archive]]<br>Archives<br />
----<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 1|2005]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 2|2006]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 3|2007]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 4|2008]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 5|2009]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 6|2010]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 7|2011]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 8|2012]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 9|2013]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 10|2014]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 11|2015]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 12|2016]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 13|2017]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 14|2018]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 15|2019]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 16|2020]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 17|2021]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 18|2022]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
* [[User_talk:Hyarion/Archive 19|2023]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
|}<br />
{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
<br />
== [[Talk:The Hobbit (film series)]]/Mistakes ==<br />
<br />
look what I have written in [[Talk:The Hobbit (film series)]] about some mistakes.<br />
<br />
Won't you say something about it;Won't you say your opinion;<br />
<br />
== Mortals ==<br />
<br />
During the council of elrond, when frodo declared that he would take the ring to mordor, master elrond said(quote): 'But if you take it freely, Iwill say that your choice is right; and though all the mightyElf-friends of old, Hador, and Hu´rin, and Tu´rin, and Berenhimself were assembled together, your seat should be amongthem.’<br />
<br />
So who amongst mortal men is deemed the mightiest, or rather sacrificed and contributed the most for both the eldar and edain?<br />
Personally I'd say Hurin.<br />
<br />
== Voting for quotes ==<br />
<br />
How do I vote for a nominated quote and how do I nominate one myself?<br />
<br />
Trying to figure out the same thing myself. The page does not seem to have anything that will allow one to do either. {{unsigned|Cww306}}<br />
<br />
:You are suppose to edit [[TG:FQ/N]], adding a new section or voting below the quote you like. But it is pointless, that page is forsaken and there are no admins to update the Main Page. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:56, 28 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Help! And hurry, not much time.... ==<br />
<br />
I need pronunciation help for Silent Night in Grey Elven. I haven't the foggiest, so if you have a lot of time, please help!<br />
All credit is duly given to Alfred W. Tueting for the translation.<br />
<br />
Sedhel i fuin, aer i fuin, <br />
Lostar pain, ereb tíril <br />
In edhryn aer a i laes aer-guin <br />
Dollen na ven or amar vín. <br />
Eruchên, losto hi mae(r)! <br />
Eruchên, losto hi mae(r)! <br />
<br />
Sedhel i fuin, aer i fuin, <br />
Tirnath lathrar hiniath-vaer dîn <br />
Uin aerlinn 'ellui i linnen o chaw, <br />
Egleriar i menel-hirth Eru vin-glaw, <br />
Eru, ven berio uin Gûr! <br />
Eru, ven berio uin Gûr!<br />
<br />
== Getting news of new items on TG ==<br />
<br />
Greetings! I have been a fan of Tolkien's since 1977 and have followed the growth of this site over time and joined it today. I look forward to contributing, but wanted to ask this: Is there an RSS newsfeed for this site to keep up with new articles or the stuff posted to the home page? Lots of great things to keep up with. I've subscribed to "recent changes" but that is overwhelming, which is great in the way of showing how active the site is, but hard for browsing.<br />
<br />
At any rate, thanks for a great website,<br />
<br />
Best regards,<br />
Darrell Curtis<br />
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA<br />
<br />
:It's great to have you aboard Darrel! Good question, [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&feed=rss this page] should do the trick. It's an RSS feed only for new pages. Looking forward to seeing you around in 2017. :)<br />
<br />
== Translation to portuguese the Tolkien Gateway. ==<br />
<br />
I'd like to know what must I do to translate the Tolkien Gateway to Portuguese-BR.If someone could tell me, please enter in touch at danieltiamorim@gmail.com I'd like to help.<br />
<br />
:Hi Daniel! Thanks so much for stopping by, and apologies for the delayed response. The translated versions of the pages are hosted by sister sites of Tolkien Gateway. If there currently is not a Portuguese-BR Tolkien Wiki, then it would be great if you could start one. As a starting point, you might want to focus on editing Wikipedia's Tolkien-related articles prior to trying to start an entire wiki yourself.<br />
<br />
== Long time since I have connected.... ==<br />
<br />
I just discovered this site. I am on a number of fan wiki but this looks different. What is the need here? {unsigned|Bill Ames}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:Hi Bill! It's great to have you aboard. We've accomplished a lot over the years, but we still have a long ways to go. There isn't a single article that is 100% perfect, so my recommendation would be think about what interests you the most when it comes to Tolkien, and focus on articles in that area. It can be a lot to take in at once, but feel free to let us know if you have any questions; thanks again for your help!<br />
<br />
== Thank You! ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Hyarion, I am a sort of new teenage tolkienite user from the U.S., and I just want to say thank you for making this site. It is excellent. I used it as a good amount of my research when I wrote my second quarter paper on Théoden last year and found it extremely helpful. Once again, ''thank you!'' -- [[User:Holdwine Meriadoc|Holdwine Meriadoc]] 18:55, 25 August 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Holdwine! Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm only one of thousands of volunteers but we really appreciate your feedback. We look forward to having you around, and hopefully some day a young "Tolkienite" will be thanking you for all your contributions. :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 21:02, 27 August 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== how to submit materials? ==<br />
<br />
hello,I am currently working on elven tongues family tree update. How can I send it as mail or submit it (around 2mb)?<br />
<br />
thank you<br />
best regarsd<br />
<br />
==Subpages==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion, I'm having a little bit of trouble finding how to create a subpage. Can you help me? I hope this isn't something I should have found and I'm unintentionally being a pest. --[[User:Holdwine Meriadoc|Holdwine Meriadoc]] 20:29, 13 December 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Holdwine! Great question. The answer is actually simpler than you might think; it's just a slash in the name of the article. So you only need to browse to "User:Holdwine Meriadoc/Example", add the content, and then add a link to the page. It's that easy, I had the exact same question when I first saw sub-pages. :) If you have any other questions just let us know; thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 20:53, 13 December 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thanks, Hyarion! I was trying to figure out how to upload a signature; that really helped!! --[[User:Holdwine Meriadoc|Holdwine Meriadoc]] 21:25, 13 December 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::OK that's weird...I don't see a Nickname section on my Special Preferences page. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br />
<br />
== Plagiarism on YouTube ==<br />
<br />
I would like to point out at this time that there is a rising YouTuber with several thousand followers who is actively engaged in plagiarism directly lifting passages from articles contained within the Tolkien Gateway. I would advise the staff, owner, contributing authors, administrators, etc. To go have a look at the youtube channel titled Men of the West. In point of fact, have the Angmar War page open and go look at the video titled"The Angmar war, wars of the legendarium." This youtuber replaces every fourth or so word with a synonym to avoid suspicion. However, the reddit community of Tolkien Fans is catching wise. Please take the proper steps to ensure that your intellectual property, body of work, and legacy are protected by not allowing blatant theft. This user is not even listing sources or giving credit at any point either in the video, in the description, or giving a link to the website he's boosting this from. I hope someone looks into this and it is brought to light. Signed, Someone who gives a damn.<br />
"Bernacus 1/1/2019<br />
<br />
:I have seen this YouTuber's channel. I believe he links Tolkien Gateway in his description. - Ancalagon the Black 17:59, 5 November 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Huge Tolkien Exhibition! ==<br />
<br />
Check this link out, this is super exciting!!<br />
<br />
http://www.openculture.com/2019/01/the-largest-j-r-r-tolkien-exhibit-in-generations-is-coming-to-the-u-s.html<br />
--{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br />
<br />
== How to submit changes to protected pages? ==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion,<br />
I saw your name on the Talk page for http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Talk:Uncommon_words, so thought you might be a good person to ask.<br />
<br />
I wanted to add a word to the [[Uncommon words]] page, so I registered for an account on TG, and looked for a way to edit. But the wiki said that the page was protected from edits. Through what channels should one go about submitting changes? See more details at [[Talk:Uncommon_words#proposal:_add_.22cockshut_light.22.3B_how_to_submit_changes.3F]]<br />
<br />
Thanks for your help,<br />
<br />
[[User:Huttarl|Huttarl]] 14:05, 11 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== General operations ==<br />
<br />
I was trying to find the people who create and operate this wiki, the owner so to speak to ask how to take a wiki someone created for me and operate it myself and no one I know seems to be able to help me. Where can I get instruction on how to use and create and operate a wiki. If you don't know but know someone who might please send me a line<br />
<br />
[[User:Elrondaragorn|Elrondaragorn]] 11:59, 26 July 2020 (UTC)elrondaragorn<br />
<br />
:Hi Elrondaragorn. Hyarion operates the wiki, however, this software is MediaWiki, the same software as Wikipedia. Visit [https://www.mediawiki.org MediaWiki.org] and the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installation_guide Installation guide]. Hope this helps. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 08:52, 20 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== how to delete my account ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible for me to delete my account? <br />
<br />
[[User:Írien Lindallë]] 04:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Irien! Great question, unfortunately due to the nature of wiki's, account deletion is not a supported feature. --Hyarion<br />
<br />
== House of Hurin coat of arms ==<br />
<br />
The shield of the HoH has Tengwar script. Can you tell me what it means? The image can be found here; House of Húrin - Tolkien Gateway . Thank you!<br />
<br />
== Account up for adoption ==<br />
<br />
Please post this information where as many users/new viewers as possible can see it: <br />
<br />
I no longer want access to this account, so I'm leaving it up for adoption. My password is IrienLindalle. Whoever adopts this account, please change the password. Thank you!<br />
<br />
Username:Írien Lindallë<br />
<br />
== Trying to contact you ==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion,<br />
<br />
I am writing to you on behalf of the German Tolkien Society which has now taken over responsibility of running the German-speaking Ardapedia at the new URL, ardapedia.org. I am not much of a tekkie but I do believe that the interwiki links that make it so useful to change from the English-speaking TG to Ardapedia to the Finns etc. have to be changed on the administrative side of things with Tolkien Gateway - and you are the person to ask about it?<br />
It would be wonderful if you could help us out on this one!<br />
--[[User:Olwe|Olwe]] 16:53, 21 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== technical problem with a link on the site ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just wanted to bring it to the attention of the admins that the link to Artist Elena Kukanova's external website has been tampered with. It now redirects to another website entirely, which appears to be used by scammers. I am quite sure Elena is entirely innocent in this affair (surely someone of such skill would not have to resort to such base means). I didn't want to just unilaterally delete the links without explanation, but I do fear for the safety of fellow internet adventurers so I figured reporting the problem to an admin might be the best solution. Whatever tampering occurred, seems to have happened within the last few months. I remember this link working just fine last year. Forgive me if you aren't the correct person to contact with this problem. I don't really know anyone yet.{{unsigned|Anonymous}}<br />
:Thanks so much for bringing this to our attention. I'll see if we can automate the process of removing the links, just to be safe. Have a great weekend! --Hyarion<br />
<br />
::Alan Lee's fallen webpage is more... concerning http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/File:Alan_Lee_-_A_Chance_Meeting.jpg I forgot to mention it a while ago. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:47, 20 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Page Help ==<br />
Hiya! I'm one of the staff members for MCME (Minecraft Middle Earth) and we noticed that you guys have pages for different LOTR games, we were hoping to look into possibly making one for our server but we're unsure how to go about it!<br />
<br />
~~ Peyton (08/04/21)<br />
<br />
:Welcome to the wiki! I believe we have a page called [[ArdaCraft]], but I'm not sure if it's the same as MCME. Could you check, just to make sure? (By the way, I absolutely love MCME, keep up the great work!). --[[User:Ancalagon the Black|Ancalagon the Black]] 15:40, 7 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thank you! Ardacraft follows the same idea, but it's a completely seperate entity! We're older than that server, but we had never even thought of creating a page on here till recently! - Peyton (09/04/21)<br />
<br />
:In [[Help:Contents]] you can find indications on how to create a new article. Follow the indications on style and if there is any error, we can edit it easily. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 15:01, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding Infoboxes ==<br />
<br />
Hi [[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]], this is [[User:Shivam|Shivam]]. I am having difficulty to add infoboxes to my user page. Kindly please help. --[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] 03:39, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Why don't you just use [[Template:User infobox]]? You won't have to deal with codes. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:59, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I used them, but can you tell me whether I can use this Gatekeeper thing and if I can't then please tell me how to remove it.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] 12:23, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Gatekeeper title you are seeing is the generic name for users on this wiki, and is the default for the user infobox. I'm not sure there's a way to remove it, except by using a different infobox. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 13:35, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
::::Ok thanks. I just don't want to get into any trouble in future.--Shivam 15:53, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Grace18 is spot-on, the Gatekeeper is just a generic name for fun. You can't get into any trouble here, we appreciate all your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 23:01, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Let's Think-1 ==<br />
<br />
If we compare the ages of the [[Lords of Andúnië]] and the [[Númenóreans]] [[Kings of Númenor|Kings]] we see a big difference.<br><br><br />
For instance, if we compare the ages of [[Elendil]] (even though he was not Lord of Andúnië but since he was the son of a lord, we can assume that he could've become a lord if [[Númenor]] was not sunk into the abyss) and [[Ar-Pharazôn]] we see that at the time of [[War of the Last Alliance]]-[[Second Age|S.A.]] [[Second Age|3429]] - [[Second Age|3441]], Elendil was 322 years old and the age of Ar-Pharazôn when he went to conquer the [[Blessed Realm]], he was 201 years old.<br><br><br />
We know that Ar-Pharazôn started building the [[Great Armament]] in [[Second Age|S.A.]] [[Second Age|3310]] when he grew old.<br><br><br />
And the fact that at the age of 322 Elendil went to war is a great feat.<br><br><br />
So why do we see such a difference?<br><br><br />
--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] 07:08, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:This kind of questions should be asked in the talkpage of the related articles, and in order to make future edits: the wiki it's not a debate forum. The kings of Númenor had fallen under the shadow some generations before, so their lives where shorter. The [[Lords of Andúnië]] kept longer lifes, and Elendil was a chosen one, so we can speculate he was granted even a longer one. [http://www.zarkanya.net/Tolkien/Decline%20of%20the%20Numenoreans.htm This article is pretty good on the matter]. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:59, 8 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Infoboxes ==<br />
<br />
Is there a specific colour code of infoboxes for different races or is it just random?--Shivam 14:52, 14 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Great question! Not sure if you're referring to [[Template:Race infobox]] or the race-specific ones, like [[Template:Maiar infobox]] but either way, it was just a random color assigned when creating the template, we just did our best to make sure they all weren't different shades of the same color. Definitely not set in stone if a color doesn't give off the right vibe. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:02, 14 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Images ==<br />
<br />
I just wanted to ask if I can use images of different artists on this site for my user [[User:Shivam|page]].--Shivam 13:30, 4 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:No problem at all! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 20:20, 4 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Fingolfin Artwork ==<br />
<br />
I made a composite of Fingolfin and was wondering whether you would post it on the page: <br />
https://www.deviantart.com/svarog989/art/High-King-Fingolfin-909190520<br />
:Wow, the detail of your art is incredible! I'll definitely see what I can do. Keep up the great work! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:35, 18 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Misconceptions -Elves have long hair ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I'm new here. I would like to change the Misconceptions-Elves have long hair section. One of the quotes is incomplete and the misconception is not strictly true. There are other quotes from Tolkien's books that I'd like to add. I'm not sure how to change it. Can someone help me please?<br />
: It's ok, I figured it out!<br />
::Apologies for the delayed response. I'm glad you were able to figure it out and thanks so much for your contributions! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 02:36, 18 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Layout ==<br />
Hyarion, is there something wrong with the layout of the site or is it just me? Also, it seems that TG was down for about half an hour just recently - what is going on? - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 15:06, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Ivar! Hm, no issues or changes with the layout on my end. What are you seeing? Server downtime wasn't just you; we rebooted the server this morning in preparation for our move to a new server, so that would explain the ~20 minutes of downtime. Thanks for your patience! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:25, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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::Hmm..It looks like the artwork is gone, on the top of the page and on the sides? I don't know. - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 15:36, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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:::Gotcha, I haven't seen that before but sounds like it might be a caching issue on the computer. Try pressing Shift + F5 or [https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/32050 clearing your cache] in your browser, that should do the trick. If not let me know; thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 15:52, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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::::Thank you! I already cleared my cache, thought it might have been it. Turns out it was - it's all normal looking now. - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 16:02, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Awesome! If you experience anymore issues don't hesitate to reach out. Thanks for all your help! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 16:13, 10 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Just a doubt ==<br />
<br />
Hi Hyarion<br><br />
I had a simple doubt<br><br />
Can we copy an entire page created by someone else and just put our name on it?<br><br />
I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but i have to clear this.<br><br />
Thanks.<br><br />
--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 03:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:Hi Shivam! I'm not sure the context of your question, if you're referring to copying a page from Tolkien Gateway, or to Tolkien Gateway, but either way the answer would be a definite no. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::I mean say you created a page on Tolkien Gateway and I copied it entirely and put my name on it and shared it's link on my user page.(Just an example, I won't do such thing). --[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:00, 13 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:::No, that sounds a bit unethical. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::::Well something like that has happened to me. Although i haven't created many pages, actually just one, so someone copied it entirely and put their name on it. Is there anything i should do?.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 01:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Can you provide more context? Thanks! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 12:32, 15 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::::::I solved it, thanks.--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 11:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Concerning article cleanup ==<br />
<br />
Hi! I've been cleaning up some articles lately that have had headings like "Plot" or "Synopsis." Should I be putting these as sub-headings under a "History" heading?<br />
[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 00:34, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:Hi Brandon! It's so great to have you on the team! Great question, if we use [[Hordes of the Things]] as an example, I think the "History" section could likely be eliminated. Pretty much everything about the subject will be considered "history", so the heading, at least to me, seems a little redundant. What are your thoughts though? --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 01:03, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::I think that there needs to be a heading over the sub-headings, and that ''could'' be "History," but it could be something else. I, personally, think that "History" works just fine, as it ''does'' all realate to history, but what do you think? There ''could'' be just sub-headings, but that might look weird... --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 01:45, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:::Ah yes, I agree about sub-headings needing a heading. I meant I would be okay with those sub-headings being converted to headings. --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 02:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::::I agree. I think it ''would'' be fine, but in the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] it shows that only the following headings can be used: '''History, Legacy, Etymology, Other names, Genealogy, Other versions of the legendarium, Inspiration, Portrayal in adaptations, See also, Notes, External links, References,''' and '''Further reading.''' The manual of style could be updated, we could come up with another heading that can be used in all of these situations so there's a ''general way of doing it'', or we could just convert those to regular headings. What's your opinion? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 02:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Hm, I think the Manual of Style just says "typically", so it's not an absolute requirement (if you see phrasing that's more strict, definitely let me know). Those headings are primarily intended for in-universe characters, locations, etc. so it's perfectly fine if ''Hordes of the Things'' deviates from that. It's difficult to list all the possible top-level headings, so I usually will check some articles on similar subjects to see what the consensus seems to be and go from there. I agree though, expanding the policy so everyone doesn't have to wing it isn't a bad idea, I just want to avoid having a policy that is 1,000 pages long :) --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] ([[User talk:Hyarion|talk]]) 03:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
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::::::I think that it's a good idea to add a few new heading options to the [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]. I'm not sure if it's possible but, because I'm working on cleaning up a big portion of the articles, I could add new heading "defaults" to the Manual of Style as needed. That is, if I'm able to get editing permission. Obviously, I wouldn't abuse this power. There are definitely a lot of possibilities for this, but I would just add the "primary" ones. i.e. Plot, Production, Bibliography, and any other main ones I come upon. I definitely agree that we shouldn't have a 1,000 page long policy, though! :D Is this possible? --[[User:BrandonEchols|BrandonEchols]] ([[User talk:BrandonEchols|talk]]) 03:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
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==Lorenzo's user talk==<br />
I have seen that you deleted the new LorenzoCB talk page, I need that page to communicate with him. Excessive Vandalism made him protect that page, so only admins can edit it. I'm not an admin, and neither are three quarters of the people on TG, and when we need to contact him we would not be able to. That is why I made that page and would like to keep it so we Gatekeepers can contact him--[[User:Tformer|Tformer]] ([[User talk:Tformer|talk]]) 19:23, 17 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Few Doubts ==<br />
<br />
Do we have the right to use soundtracks of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings series?<br><br />
What is the sequence of layout of a page, I mean what's the correct order of writing History, Etymology, Genealogy, References, Other Versions, etc?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 07:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dour1234&diff=373855User talk:Dour12342023-05-24T07:14:36Z<p>Shivam: /* Ancestry of Aragorn */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Dour1234}}<br />
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-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 05:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Moving pages==<br />
Moving pages is not the wiki's priority, and not a work for newcomers. Pages must never been moved via copypasting! You ignored what I told you about using talkpages before moving anything, and obviously you still are unawared of the [[Tolkien Gateway:Naming policy]], so I'm blocking you again. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:04, 28 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
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Moving talkpages is even less important, and I told you don't do it via copypasting; that way we loose the history of edits. Just👏don't👏move👏anything👏please! --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:03, 16 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Calm down==<br />
You made almost 20 edits in one day just in the Lungorthin article. Please, planify your edits and check the preview before saving. You are constantly correcting yourself and making useless microedits like removing spaces. Editing for the sake of editing does not help the wiki. My recommendation: choose a matter of your interest, study the sources, think how to apply it to the wiki and then edit with calm if it is necessary. Also, the correction on Lurgonthin being a Maia was a good reason for you to ask in the talkpage, but you simply reject it. I'm blocking you just couple of weeks, let's see if you can moderate yourself already. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 22:25, 24 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Nameless Things==<br />
The index of The Lord of the Rings was not written by J.R.R. Tolkien. You can learn some information about the index by reading the Note on the text and the introductory text of the Index of the 50th anniversary edition of The Lord of the Rings, which even explicitly says "Compiled by Christina Scull & Wayne G. Hammond". They only say that they also have "referred to the index, that Tolkien himself began to prepare during 1954, but which he left unfinished after dealing only with place names". Christina Scull & Wayne G. Hammond do not quote an entry for "Nameless Things" from J.R.R. Tolkien's unfinished index that was prepared by Nancy Smith for him and reviewed by him [[Unfinished index]]. The entry in the index in the 50th anniversary edition does not say "Nameless" (the term that you used in your edit), but says "Nameless, gnawing things" followed by the page number, which is the page where Gandalf calls them "nameless things". Since the nameless things are not a placename, it is probable that they were not included in the unfinished index that was reviewed by J.R.R. Tolkien. Also, generally reliable sources, such as Michael Martinez's middle-earth.xenite.org and Mark Fisher's The Encyclopedia of Arda call them "Nameless Things". I suggest that you read the Templates to familiarize yourself with them before you edit and that you avoid breaking up your edits into microedits. The [[Template:RK]] contains an entry for the index and entries for subsections of the index. Since the index was not written by J.R.R. Tolkien it is not a reliable source. For example the entry in the index of the 50th anniversary edition of an e-book versions for Cirith Ungol reads "Cirith Ungol [Pass of the Spider] (High Pass, Nameless Pass)". If one reads the descriptions of the locations of the passes in the chapters it becomes clear that the Nameless Pass in the chapter The Stairs of Cirith Ungol is the Morgul Pass that is mentioned in The Black Gate Opens and in The Tower of Cirith Ungol. You create unnecessary work for other users to review your edits and to correct your edits if you do not support your edits with reliable sources and if you break up your edits into microedits. Lorenzo already told you on this talk page how to do thorough edits. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 07:57, 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Tevildo==<br />
Several sections on the Tevildo page that you edited or created do not contain any reference. You have already been told to use references in your edits. You risk that your edits will be reverted and that you will be blocked again if you do not adhere to Tolkien Gateways's policies. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 08:39, 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I will get to adding the references right now.<br />
:Edit, just finished adding page references to the article, please name the other pages I need to do. Regardless, I am going to be adding page references to the Leaf by Niggle article now. I regret saying this as I just remembered I do not have that version with the correct pagination. However, I will still put the reference to the book, though. Edit again, what reference shortcut template do I use for specifically “Leaf by Niggle”? It is not mentioned on the references help page. --[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]], 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
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::I don't know what's the standard edition of "Leaf by Niggle" that should be used for the wiki. Adding a simple reference without pagination will always better than no reference at all. In the case of Tevildo, I'll have to change all your work, as the pagination does not match the one used by Christopher Tolkien or the wiki. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:23, 10 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Southward Road ==<br />
I noticed that you created a new page called Southward Road. While it is positive that you noticed that the name Southward Road is used once with capital characters at the beginning of each word, which signifies a proper name, you did not include a page number for the 50th anniversary edition of The Lord of the Rings and left the page unfinished although it does not require much content. In addition, you do not seem to have performed research if the road could be another name for the Harad Road and you do not seem to have looked at the information on the Harad Road with the fact that J.R.R. Tolkien used the name Harad Road for the part of the road to the south of the Cross-roads on a draft map. You phrased the information that you wrote like it was fact. Please do not make any edits until you have thoroughly researched a topic and until you can include complete references. Very often it is better not to make edits at all. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 09:15, 12 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Caves of the Forgotten ==<br />
You create extra work for other users if you do not read the sources carefully and do not prepare your edits carefully. If was quite plain from the text that only the mortal men that came ashore, but not Ar-Pharazôn and not Tar-Miriel were buried in the Caves of the Forgotten. You created a title for a section called "Other versions" with information from manuscripts of J.R.R. Tolkien from The Lost Road and Other Writings. The standard title for such a section on Tolkien Gateway is Other versions of the legendarium. The standards of Tolkien Gateway require to make all reasonable efforts to include page numbers if you use books from The History of Middle-earth series, such as The Lost Road and Other Writings. Lorenzo and I corrected your errors. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 10:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Southward Road ==<br />
The standards of Tolkien Gateway require to make all reasonable efforts to include page numbers if you use The Lord of the Rings or books from The History of Middle-earth series, such as The War of the Ring as references. You used both sources in your edit on this page and did not include any page numbers. The reference to The War of the Ring was not necessary, because The Lord of the Rings already contains this information. The implied statement that the Southward Road merged into the Harad Road is a speculation that you did not disclose as being a speculation. In addition, you could have made more research about the names that J.R.R. Tolkien used for various parts on his maps and could have found the existing page about the Harad Road. I corrected your errors. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 10:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Éowyn ==<br />
The standard on other pages about people from Rohan for the name of the language in infoboxes is Rohirric. J.R.R. Tolkien used the name Rohan for the language and not the name Rohanese that you used in the infobox. He used Rohanese once, but it is not clear if its use in that context was intended as the name of the language or just an adjective. Do not change Rohirric before discussing the topic on Talk pages. You created a title for a section called "Other versions" with information from manuscripts of J.R.R. Tolkien from TI. The standard title for such a section on Tolkien Gateway is Other versions of the legendarium. The standards of Tolkien Gateway require to make all reasonable efforts to include page numbers if you use books from The History of Middle-earth series, such as The Treason of Isengard. I corrected your errors. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 10:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Idis, Helm, Helm's daughter ==<br />
Again the same issued here with the name of the language in the infobox and with missing page numbers. In addition, there was an implied speculation on the Helm's daughter page that Helm hit Freca only because he asked for the hand of Helm's daughter for his son Wulf. You did not explain that Freca insulted and threatened Helm before Helm hit him. I corrected those pages. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 11:24, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Edits to the Bor (Taliska) and Angbor (stone) pages ==<br />
I reviewed your edits on the Bor (Taliska) and Angbor (stone) pages. Your edits did not include any reference for the changes that you made. The Tolkien Gateyway Manual of Style and Help:References require references and require references with page numbers if you want to include information from The War of the Jewels. The fact that the Angbor (stone) page did not have a reference using a template and did not have a reference with page numbers does not make the edit any better. Your edits create additional work for other users to review and correct your edits by adding missing references. Please do not edit unless you make and edit with proper references. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] ([[User talk:Akhorahil|talk]]) 12:34, 19 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I was going to add references to the bor (Taliska) page. I made one edit on that page intending to do a reference edit immediately after, but something unforeseen came up in real life that I had to see to which could not wait. I was intending to make that reference edit literally now, but you beat me to it. As for the Angbor (stone) page, my last edit on that page was months ago in April, at a time before I grew familiar with the wiki policies over this past summer.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 20:25, 19 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Question ==<br />
<br />
Hello. Should the page ''Amazon.com Incorporated'' retitled to ''Amazon (company)''?I am saying that beacause on Wikipedia the page of this company is titled ''Amazon (company)'' and not ''Amazon.com Incorporated''.Should this be discussed with other uses and administrators of Tolkien Gateway or not? [[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] 20:40, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Wikipedia has multiple pages unrelated to the Amazon company that has the name Amazon in it. They have to have company in parentheses because they need pages to be simplified. I figured that since there won’t be any confusion on here, it should be the actual company name.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 21:08, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
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:I am sorry but I don't understand.What do you mean? [[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] 21:13, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
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::Btw, we don't need so many separated articles for Amazon and its branches. I'd say only Amazon Studios is enough. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] ([[User talk:LorenzoCB|talk]]) 21:15, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree, though maybe Amazon.com Incorporated should be kept instead of Amazon Studios, as they are the main branch.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 21:19, 10 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power ==<br />
<br />
Hello.I would like to ask you something.Why did you reversed the edits that I did on the page The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power? I think this page needs a tidying up on the Content External Links.Some websites need to be removed, because they are unessecary.Do you understand what I am saying? ----[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]], 12.22, 2 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Some things mentioned in the articles are not mentioned in the show or are not clear in the show.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 17:45, 2 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
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==Moving pages==<br />
Hi Dour1234. Regarding your recent moving of the page "Phil LaMarr" to "Phillip LaMarr", it might be a good idea to discuss moving pages in the talk page before going ahead. From what I've seen in the past (and a quick google), this actor tends to be credited by the first name "Phil". Although somewhat inconsequential for this relatively minor page on TG, I'd urge you to discuss via the talk page before moving articles in the future. Thank you. --[[User:GondolinFan|GondolinFan]] ([[User talk:GondolinFan|talk]]) 23:03, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power title card opening ==<br />
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Hello.I would like to ask you something.Why did you change the main image that I put on page The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power?I put it because it is the title opening card for each episode of The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power series.Do you understand what I am saying? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] [[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]], 02.40, 03 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, I reverted your edit because the title card opening does not reflect the show as a whole. As I explained in my edit summary, it only appears within episodes two through eight and does not appear in episode one and any of the extra content, primarily because it does not appear in episode one.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 06:05, 3 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Moving images ==<br />
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I would like to ask you something.Why do you change the name of the images that I uploaded and are related to The Lord of the Rings The Rings of Power series? I think that all the names of these images that you changed and I uploaded and I named it are fine.So, there is nothing wrong.You didn't have to do all these changes in those images that you did today.Do you understand what I am saying? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 22:08, 04 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Back ==<br />
<br />
Hello.Welcome back here, on Tolkien Gateway. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 13:54, 17 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Images Numenor ==<br />
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Hello.I think that you didn't have to do all these things you did on the images that I just upoladed. Anyway, I have no problem with you, in order for you to know.I am not trying to offend you. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 00:04, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The reason why I changed the name of the image of the citadel of [[Armenelos]] was because the name of that place is the [[King's Court]]. As such, having the name of the image be the name of what it depicts is better in my opinion than having the name be a generic name. The reason why I changed the image that you called the harbour of [[Númenor]] was because Númenor does not just have one harbour and one city. Despite my issue with those two names, the images that you upload are very good. Speaking of which, I had previously posted a question on your [[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου#Question|talk page]].[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 01:44, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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::Hello.I just read your message that you wrote to me on my talk page and I would like to say to you that I haven't found any image of the exterior of Hall of Lore.As of any image of the exterior of the King's Tower I haven't searched it yet, if you want to know. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 21:37, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::There actually is a shot of the exterior of the [[Hall of Lore]] before the interior is shown. It is shown in a wide shot for a few moments from two angles when Captain Elendil and Galadriel are just riding up to the overhang that it lies upon. There are also some shots of it in the behind the scenes video for that episode, which is six minutes long, so it would likely be easier to find the shots that I am referring to in there. However, the best shot in my opinion is at the absolute beginning of Scene 29 and the time stamp is at 29:50/39:32. You would know that it is the right shot if the subtitles are just beginning to bleed the sound of "hammering" from the next shot. As for the [[King's Tower]], there are multiple great exterior shots of it. In fact, in episode three, there is a night shot of it in the "Episode Stills" section of the "Bonus Content" tab of the X-ray feature that can be accessed within the episode. It is not centered, but perhaps you could go to that shot where the time stamp is at 57:33 just immediately before it cuts to Miriel walking up the stairs of the tower. There may be better shots of it, but this is a start. On a side note, when you upload the images to the wiki, I do think that they should be called "Hall of Lore" and "King's Tower" respectively. In addition, I just found a shot of the [[Watchtower of Ostirith]] that may be better than the current one. It is in episode four and the time stamp is 18:58/52:45. It shows the Watchtower from the other side, which includes not only the tower and the top bridge, but also the pathway carved into the two hills and the two bridges “below” the top bridge. Perhaps the current image of it could be replaced by the shot I just mentioned as there is only room on the [[Watchtower of Ostirith]] page for one image. There is also a concept art section on the X-Ray feature. Those should perhaps be on the wiki as well. I hope that all of this helps. Thanks.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 23:37, 30 December 2022 (UTC)<br />
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== Images ==<br />
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Hello and happy new year to you. You did good job for uploading these images you uploaded today, and for all of these editings but be careful, not to be blogged again from TG by LorenzoCB or by any other administrator of TG.I am just warning for you in order for the worse for you to be prevented.Nothing more. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 21:39, 1 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power plot ==<br />
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Hello. I would like to ask you something. Have you seen episodes 6 - 8 (six to eight, I mean)? I am asking that because if you did, then add informations about the plot and about the differences that all of these episodes have from Tolkiem's books. So, what do you think? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 22:59, 5 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
:I have seen those episodes, but I would prefer editing and revising it once someone does add that information in. However, if I must, then I will add in that information.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 23:04, 5 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== No problem ==<br />
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Hello user Dour1234.OK. No problem.In this case, the result is the same. The page still exists, albelt in other name. --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 14:52, 28 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Help ==<br />
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Hello user Dour1234.Can you help me in editing the template:films that I just edited? I don't know what to do I think you understand my intentions about this template that I just edited.Don't you? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 00:35, 31 January 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Elros (Mirkwood guard) ==<br />
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Hi! I've seen your changes to the Elros (Mirkwood guard) page and the new links you put on the pages for the two radio series where the character appears. However, currently both of those links are redlinks, because you linked to "Chief of the guards" and not Elros. Was that on purpose? Also, just in general, should the Elros page be moved, now that it's not chiefly about the movie character anymore? Or were you already planning on doing that? Regards, [[User:Adunoeth|Adunoeth]] ([[User talk:Adunoeth|talk]]) 16:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)<br />
:The redlinks were an oversight on my part. Thanks for bringing them to my attention. I will change the links to go to the proper page. As for moving the current page, I have no plans on making a move proposal as the name of the page itself does not matter and I see nothing wrong with the current name since it is still a name that was given to the character and the name is still mentioned in the Portrayal in adaptations section, so the name truly is “accurate” in a way. All that matters is the content of the page. However, if you want to make a proposal to the “[[Authorities]]” (this is a joke), or to the admins of the site, or to the [[User:Hyarion|site-creator]], go on ahead, but do not mention me because I am not going to make such a proposal myself because the current name is fine in my opinion.<br />
:If you can find any information on the character in LOTRO, could you possibly add it to the page? I am having no luck in finding such information. [[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 00:38, 9 February 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Oliphaunts]] ==<br />
Hello,<br />
Considerations about their size can be an indication of whether they are elephants or distinct animals resembling elephants. Sorry for "unsourced statements" but how to source something which can be seen in a movie? It seems somewhat difficult.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/172.71.122.201|172.71.122.201]] 19:12, 20 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
:I reverted your edit because what you stated is already said in the “Portrayal in adaptations” section on the page.[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]] ([[User talk:Dour1234|talk]]) 19:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
::Yes you're right. I displaced it in the right section. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.122.92|172.71.122.92]] 19:33, 20 March 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Eye of Sauron ==<br />
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Hello.There was no reason to do what you did on the page The Eye of Sauron, and I am referring to the fact that you reduced the images of the Eye of Sauron in adaptations. Just pit it according to the right timeline of the first appearence. OK? --[[User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου]] ([[User talk:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου|talk]]) 15:41, 06 April 2023 (UTC)<br />
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== Ancestry of Aragorn ==<br />
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Are you planning to extend the family tree of Aragorn because there are a lot more members and its a bit complicated?--[[User:Shivam|Shivam]] <font size="2" face="calibri"><span style="color:red">([[User talk:Shivam|Talk ]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shivam|Contribs]]/[[Special:Editcount/Shivam|Edits]])</span></font> 07:14, 24 May 2023 (UTC)</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ancestry_of_Aragorn_II&diff=373854Ancestry of Aragorn II2023-05-24T06:45:41Z<p>Shivam: </p>
<hr />
<div>"***" indicates [[King of Númenor]] or [[High King of the Dúnedain]]<br><br />
"**" indicates [[King of Arnor]]<br><br />
"*" indicates [[King of Arthedain]]<br><br />
"#" indicates [[King of Gondor]]<br><br />
<br />
<div style="overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HOH=''[[House of Hador]]''<br/>|}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELR=[[Elros]]<br/>***Tar-Minyatur<br/><small>''FA 531-SA 442''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VAR| |TIN| |MAN| |ATA| | | | | | | | | | |VAR=***[[Vardamir|Vardamir Nólimon]]<br/><small>''61-471''</small><br/>|TIN=''[[Tindómiel]]''|MAN=[[Manwendil]]|ATA=[[Atanalcar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |AMA| | | |VAR| | | |AUL| | | |NOL| | | | |AMA=***[[Tar-Amandil]]<br/><small>''192-603''</small>|VAR=''[[Vardilmë]]''<br/><small>''203''</small>|AUL=[[Aulendil (son of Vardamir)|Aulendil]]<br/><small>''213''</small>|NOL=[[Nolondil]]<br/><small>''222''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ELE| | | | | |VEA| |EAR| |MAI| |YAV| |ORO| |AXA|ELE=***[[Tar-Elendil]]<br/>[[Parmaitë]]<br/><small>''350-751''</small>|VEA=[[Vëantur]]|EAR=[[Eärendur (son of Tar-Amandil)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''361''</small>|MAI=''[[Mairen]]''<br/><small>''377''</small>|YAV=''[[Yávien]]''<br/><small>''371''</small>|ORO=[[Oromendil]]<br/><small>''382''</small>|AXA=[[Axantur]]<br/><small>''395''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | |`|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space: nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELA|y|SIL| |ISI| |MEN|y|ALM| | | | | |CAL| |LIN| |ARD| |CEM|ELA=[[Elatan]]<BR/>of [[Andúnië]]|SIL=''[[Silmarien]]''<br/><small>''521''</small><br/>|ISI=''[[Isilmë]]''<br/><small>''532''</small>|MEN=[[Írimon]]<br/>***[[Tar-Meneldur]]<br/><small>''543-942''</small>|ALM=''[[Almarian]]''|CAL=[[Caliondo]]<br/><small>''512-900''</small>|LIN=''[[Lindissë]]''<br/><small>''551''</small>|ARD=[[Ardamir (son of Axantur)|Ardamir]]<br/><small>''562''</small>|CEM=[[Cemendur (son of Axantur)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''575''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|'| |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|^|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|VAL| |ANA|y|ERE| |AIL|y|ORC| |ALM| |MAL| | | | | |IRI| |HAL|VAL=[[Valandil (Lord of Andúnië)|Valandil]], First<br/>[[Lord of Andúnië]]|ANA=Anardil<br/>***[[Tar-Aldarion]]<br/><small>''700-1098''</small><br/>|ERE=''[[Erendis]]''<br/><small>''771-985'' †</small></small><br/>|AIL=''[[Ailinel]]''<br/><small>''712''</small>|ORC=[[Orchaldor]]|ALM=''[[Almiel]]''<br/><small>''729''</small>|MAL=[[Malantur]]<br/><small>''670''</small>|IRI=''[[Írildë]]''<br/><small>''700''</small>|HAL=[[Hallatan]] of<br/>[[Hyarastorni]]<br/><small>''711''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | |ANC| | | | | |SOR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NES| |HAL|ANC=***''[[Tar-Ancalimë]]''<br/><small>''873-1285''</small>|SOR=[[Soronto]]<br/><small>''799''</small>|NES=''[[Nessanië]]''<br/><small>''840''</small>|HAL=[[Hallacar]]<br/><small>''852-1211''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |L|~|~|~|~|~|y|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|J| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ERY| | | | | | | | | |ANA|ERY=Earlier lords<br/>of Andúnië|ANA=***[[Tar-Anárion]]<br/><small>''1003-1404''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |OLD| |SIS| |SUR|OLD=''Older Sister''| SIS=''Older Sister''|SUR=***[[Tar-Súrion]]<br/><small>''1174-1574''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|(| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |TEL| |ISI|TEL=***''[[Tar-Telperiën]]''<br/><small>''1320-1731''</small><br/><br/>|ISI=[[Isilmo]]}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |MIN|MIN=***[[Tar-Minastir]]<br/><small>''1474-1873''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CIR=***[[Tar-Ciryatan]]<br/><small>''1634-2035''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | | | |ATN|ATN=***[[Tar-Atanamir]]<br/>the Great<br/><small>''1800-2221''</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |F|~|~|~|[| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | |:| | |ANC|ANC=***[[Tar-Ancalimon]]<br/><small>''1986-2386''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | |:| | |TEL|TEL=***[[Tar-Telemmaitë]]<br/><small>''2136-2526''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | |HER|y|VAN|HER=[[Herucalmo]]<br/>[[Tar-Anducal]]<br/><small>''2286-2657''</small><br/>|VAN=***''[[Tar-Vanimeldë]]''<br/><small>''2277-2637''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |ALC| | |ALC=***[[Tar-Alcarin]]<br/><small>''2406-2737''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | | | | |CAL| | |CAL=***[[Tar-Calmacil]]<br/>(Ar-Belzagar)<br/><small>''2516-2825''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |F|~|v|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ARD| |GIM|ARD=***[[Tar-Ardamin]]<br/>(Ar-Avattârik)<br/><small>''2618-2899''</small>|GIM=[[Gimilzagar]]<br/><small>''2630''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ADU| | | | |ADU=***[[Ar-Adûnakhôr]]<br/>(Tar-Herunúmen)<br/><small>''2709-2962''</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | | | |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | | | | |:|ZIM| | | | |ZIM=***[[Ar-Zimrathôn]]<br/>(Tar-Hostamir) )<br/><small>''2798-3033''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |D|~|~|~|7| |:| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|EAR| |LIN|:|SAK| | | | |EAR=[[Eärendur (Lord of Andúnië)|Eärendur]]<br/>Fifteenth Lord<br/>of Andúnië|LIN=''[[Lindórië]] ''|SAK=***[[Ar-Sakalthôr]]<br/>(Tar-Falassion)<br/><small>''2876-3102''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |]|~|J| |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| |:| | |INZ|y|GIM| | | | |INZ=''[[Inzilbêth]] ''|GIM=***[[Ar-Gimilzôr]]<br/>(Tar-Telemnar)<br/><small>''2960-3177''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |:| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|NUM| |PAL| |GMK| | | | |NUM=[[Númendil]]|PAL=***[[Tar-Palantir]]<br/>(Ar-Inziladûn)<br/><small>''3035-3255''</small>|GMK=[[Gimilkhâd]]<br/><small>''3044-3243''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|AMA| |MIR|~|PHA|AMA=[[Amandil]]<br/>Last Lord</br/>of Andúnië<br/>|MIR=''[[Tar-Míriel]]''<br/>''(Ar-Zimraphel) ''<br/><small>''3117-3319'' †</small><br/>|PHA=***[[Ar-Pharazôn]]<br/>(Tar-Calion)<br/><small>''3118-3319'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELE=***[[Elendil]]<br/><small>''3119-3441'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ISI| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ANA|ISI=***[[Isildur]]<br/><small>''S.A.3209-T.A.2'' †</small><br/>|ANA=#[[Anárion]]<br/><small>''S.A.3219-S.A.3441'' †</small><br/>}}{{familytree | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|ELE| |ARA| |CIR| |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| |ELE=[[Elendur (son of Isildur)| Elendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3299-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|ARA=[[Aratan]]<br/><small>''SA 3339-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|CIR=[[Ciryon]]<br/><small>''SA 3379-TA 2'' †</small><br/>|VAL=**[[Valandil (King of Arnor)|Valandil]]<br/><small>''SA 3430-TA 249''</small>|MEN=#[[Meneldil]]<br/><small>''SA 3318-TA 158''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |CEM| |ELD=**[[Eldacar (King of Arnor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''87-339''</small>|CEM=#[[Cemendur (King of Gondor)|Cemendur]]<br/><small>''SA 3399-TA 238''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARA| | | | | | | | | | | | |EAR| |ARA=**[[Arantar]]<br/><small>''185-435''</small>|EAR=#[[Eärendil (King of Gondor)|Eärendil]]<br/><small>''TA 48-324''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| | | | | | | | | | | | |ANR| |TAR=**[[Tarcil]]<br/><small>''280-515''</small>|ANR=#[[Anardil (King of Gondor)|Anardil]]<br/><small>''136-411''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |TRD| | | | | | | | | | | | |OST| |TRD=**[[Tarondor (King of Arnor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''372-602''</small>|OST=#[[Ostoher]]<br/><small>''222-492''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |VAL| | | | | | | | | | | | |TAR| |VAL=**[[Valandur]]<br/><small>''462-652'' †</small>|TAR=#Tarostar<br/>[[Rómendacil I]]<br/><small>''310-541'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | | | | | | | | |TUR| |ELD=**[[Elendur (King of Arnor)|Elendur]]<br/><small>''552-777''</small>|TUR=#[[Turambar (King of Gondor)|Turambar]]<br/><small>''397-667''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ERD| | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA| |ERD=**[[Eärendur (King of Arnor)|Eärendur]]<br/><small>''640-861''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar I]]<br/><small>''480-748''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AML| |KOC| |KOR| | | | | | | | |SIR| |AML=*[[Amlaith]]<br/>of [[Fornost]]<br/><small>''726-946''</small>|KOC=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Cardolan]]|KOR=Son,<br/>First King<br/>of [[Rhudaur]]|SIR=#[[Siriondil (King of Gondor)|Siriondil]]<br/><small>''570-830''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |BEL| | | | | | | | | | |BER|~|FAL| |TCY|BEL=*[[Beleg (King of Arthedain)|Beleg]]<br/><small>''811-1029''</small>|BER=''[[Berúthiel]]''<br/>|FAL=#Tarannon<br/>[[Tarannon Falastur|Falastur]]<br/><small>''654-913''</small>|TCY=[[Tarciryan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MAL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERN|MAL=*[[Mallor]]<br/><small>''895-1110''</small>|ERN=#[[Eärnil I]]<br/><small>''736-936'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CEL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CIR|CEL=*[[Celepharn]]<br/><small>''979-1191''</small>|CIR=#[[Ciryandil]]<br/><small>''820-1015'' †</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |CLB| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |HYA|CLB=*[[Celebrindor]]<br/><small>''1062-1272''</small>|HYA=#Ciryaher<br/>[[Hyarmendacil I]]<br/><small>''899-1149''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |MVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ATA|MVG=*[[Malvegil]]<br/><small>''1144-1349''</small>|ATA=#[[Atanatar II]]<br/>[[Alcarin]]<br/><small>''977-1226''</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NAR| |CMC|AGL=*[[Argeleb I]]<br/><small>''1226-1356'' †</small><br/>|NAR=#[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''1049-1294''</small>|CMC=#[[Calmacil (King of Gondor)|Calmacil]]<br/><small>''1058-1304''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|-|-|.|}}{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VID| |MIN| | | |CLM| | |AVL=*[[Arveleg I]]<br/><small>''1309-1409'' †</small><br/>|VID=[[Vidugavia]]|MIN=#Minalcar<br/>[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''1126-1366''</small>|CLM=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | |:|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APH| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VUM|y|VLC| | | | |:|APH=*[[Araphor]]<br/><small>''1391-1589''</small>|VUM=''[[Vidumavi]]''<br/>d. 1332|VLC=#[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''1194-1432''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AGL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| | | | | |CAS| | |AGL=*[[Argeleb II]]<br/><small>''1473-1670''</small>|ELD=#Vinitharya<br/>[[Eldacar (King of Gondor)|Eldacar]]<br/><small>''1255-1490''</small><br/>|CAS=#[[Castamir]]<br/>the Usurper<br/><small>''1259-1447''</small> †<br/></small> }}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ORN| |ALD| | | |SNS| | |AVG=*[[Arvegil]]<br/><small>''1553-1743''</small>|ORN=[[Ornendil]]<br/>''d. 1437'' †</small><br/>|ALD=#[[Aldamir]]<br/><small>''1330-1540'' †</small><br/>|SNS=Sons<br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARG| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |VYR| | | | |:| | | ||ARG=*[[Arveleg II]]<br/><small>''1633-1813''</small>|VYR=#Vinyarion<br/>[[Hyarmendacil II]]<br/><small>''1391-1621''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |F|~|A|~|7| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |AVL| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |MND| |ANG| |SAN|AVL=*[[Araval]]<br/><small>''1711-1891''</small>|MND=#[[Minardil]]<br/><small>''1454-1634'' †</small><br/>|ANG=[[Angamaitë]]|SAN=[[Sangahyando]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |APT| |OND| | | | | | | | | | | | |TLM| |MNS| |APT=*[[Araphant]]<br/><small>''1789-1964''</small>|OND=[[Ondoher]]<br/>of Gondor|TLM=#[[Telemnar]]<br/><small>''1516-1636'' †</small><br/>|MNS=[[Minastan]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |ARI|y|FIR| | | | | | | | | | | | |CHL| |TRD|ARI=*[[Arvedui]]<br/><small>''1864-1975'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896''</small>|CHL=Children<br/>''d. 1636'' †</small>|TRD=#[[Tarondor (King of Gondor)|Tarondor]]<br/><small>''1577-1798''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |]|~|~|~|7| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARN| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |TUT| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARN=[[Aranarth]]<br/><small>''1938-2106''</small>|TUT=#[[Telumehtar Umbardacil|Telumehtar]]<br/>Umbardacil<br/><small>''1632-1850''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |NMC| | | | | | | |ARC| |AHL=[[Arahael]]<br/><small>''2012-2177''</small>|NMC=#[[Narmacil II]]<br/><small>''1684-1856'' †</small><br/>|ARC=[[Arciryas]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ANR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |CET| | | | | | | |CCL| |ANR=[[Aranuir]]<br/><small>''2084-2247''</small>|CET=#[[Calimehtar (King of Gondor)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''1736-1936''</small>|CCL=[[Calimmacil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |)|-|-|-|-|-|.| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVR| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |OND| | | |DTR| |SIR| |AVR=[[Aravir]]<br/><small>''2156-2319''</small>|OND=#[[Ondoher]]<br/><small>''1787-1944'' †</small><br/>|DTR=''Daughter''|SIR=[[Siriondil (son of Calimmacil)|Siriondil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | ||,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|(| | | | | |!| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | | | | | | |ART| |FAR| |FIR| | | |MNT| |ERL| | |AGN=[[Aragorn I]]<br/><small>''2227-2327'' †</small><br/>|ART=[[Artamir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FAR=[[Faramir (son of Ondoher)|Faramir]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|FIR=''[[Fíriel]]''<br/><small>''b. 1896'' †</small>|MNT=[[Minohtar]]<br/><small>''d. 1944'' †</small><br/>|ERL=#[[Eärnil II]]<br/><small>''1883-2043''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGL| | |:| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |ERR| |AGL=[[Araglas]]<br/><small>''2296-2455''</small>|ERR=#[[Eärnur]]<br/><small>''1928-2050'' †</small><br/>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AHD| | |:| | | | | |AHD=[[Arahad I]]<br/><small>''2365-2523''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGT| | |:| | | | | |AGT=[[Aragost]]<br/><small>''2431-2588''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AVN| | |:| | | | | |AVN=[[Aravorn]]<br/><small>''2497-2654''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ARH| | |:| | | | | |ARH=[[Arahad II]]<br/><small>''2563-2719''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ASS| | |:| | | | | |ASS=[[Arassuil]]<br/><small>''2628-2784''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH| | |:| | | | | |ATH=[[Arathorn I]]<br/><small>''2693-2848'' †</small>}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | ||!| | | |:| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |AGN| | |:| | |GIL|AGN=[[Argonui]]<br/><small>''2757-2912''</small>|GIL=[[Gilbarad]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |:| | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ADR| |DIR|y|IVO|ADR=[[Arador]]<br/><small>''2820-2930'' †</small><br/>|DIR=[[Dírhael]]<br/>|IVO=''[[Ivorwen]]''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ATH|~|y|~|GIL| | |ATH=[[Arathorn II]]<br/><small>''2873-2933'' †</small><br/>|GIL=''[[Gilraen]]''<br/><small>''2907-3007''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |AGN|y|ARW| |AGN=***[[Aragorn|Aragorn II]]<br/>King Elessar<br/><small>''2931-FoA 120''</small>|ARW=''[[Arwen]]''<br/><small>''TA 241-FoA 121''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.|}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| |DTS| |ELD=***[[Eldarion]]<small><br>''FoA 1-220''</br></small>|DTS=''Daughters''}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |:| | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:nowrap;background-colour:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | |MEN| | | | |MEN=''Hundred generations <br> of men''}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
[[Category:House of Telcontar]]</div>Shivamhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Calmacil_(King_of_Gondor)&diff=373853Calmacil (King of Gondor)2023-05-24T06:39:12Z<p>Shivam: /* Genealogy */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-two|the [[Kings of Gondor|King]] of [[Gondor]]|[[King of Númenor|King]] of [[Númenor]]|[[Tar-Calmacil]]}}<br />
{{gondorian infobox<br />
| name=Calmacil<br />
| image=[[File:Matěj Čadil - Calmacil.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Calmacil" by [[Matěj Čadil]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=[[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondor]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=[[Westron]]<br />
| birth={{TA|1058}}<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule={{TA|1294}} - {{TA|1304|n}} (10 years)<br />
| death={{TA|1304}}<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=246<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<br />
| parentage=[[Atanatar II]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=[[Rómendacil II|Minalcar]] and [[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Calmacil''' ({{TA|1058}}<ref>{{PM|Elendil}}</ref> – {{TA|1304|n}},<ref name="South">{{App|South}}</ref> aged 246 years) was the eighteenth King of [[Gondor]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Calmacil was the son of King [[Atanatar II]] Alcarin and younger brother of the later King [[Narmacil I|Narmacil]]. The two brothers had inherited their father's love for ease and neglect of political matters. <br />
<br />
His older brother Narmacil succeeded their father to the throne, but was indolent and had no children. Calmacil had a son, [[Minalcar]], who was unlike them, a man of great vigour, was bestowed by Narmacil to be a [[Regent of Gondor|Regent]].<br />
<br />
When Narmacil died without heirs in {{TA|1294}}, his brother Calmacil succeeded him, but was too old to rule<ref name="South"/> so he continued to have his son Minalcar function as Regent<ref>{{App|Gondor}}</ref> until he was properly succeeded after his death.<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Calmacil'' is [[Quenya]]. Its meaning is not glossed, but as Paul Strack explains it seems to mean "Sword of Light" or "Shining Sword" seems to be a compound of ''[[cala]]'' ("light") and ''[[macil]]'' ("sword").<ref>{{webcite|author=Paul Strack|articleurl=https://www.eldamo.org/content/words/word-141190487.html|articlename=Q. ''Calmacil'' m.|website=Eldamo|accessed=29 October 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | HYA | | | | |HYA=[[Hyarmendacil I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|899|n}} - {{TA|1149|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ATA | | | | |ATA=[[Atanatar II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|977|n}} - {{TA|1226|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | NAR | | CAL | | |NAR=[[Narmacil I]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1049|n}} - {{TA|1294|n}}''</small>|CAL='''CALMACIL'''<br/><small>''{{TA|1058|n}} - {{TA|1304|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |,|-|^|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | ROM | | CAL |ROM=[[Rómendacil II]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1126|n}} - {{TA|1366|n}}''</small>|CAL=[[Calimehtar (son of Calmacil)|Calimehtar]]<br/><small>''unknown''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree | | | |!| | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree | | | VAL | | | | |VAL=[[Valacar]]<br/><small>''{{TA|1194|n}} - {{TA|1432|n}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=gondorian<br />
| house=[[House of Anárion]]<small><br/>Cadet branch of [[House of Elros]]</small><br />
| born={{TA|1058}}<br />
| died={{TA|1304}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Narmacil I]]<br />
| list=18th [[Kings of Gondor|King of Gondor]]<br />
| dates= {{TA|1294}} - {{TA|1304|n}}<br />
| next=[[Rómendacil II]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{southernline}}<br />
{{title}}<br />
[[Category:Gondorians]]<br />
[[Category:House of Anárion]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers of Gondor]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Calmacil]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:3a:dunedain:gondoriens:calmacil]]<br />
[[fi:Calmacil]]</div>Shivam