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2024-03-28T18:18:58Z
User contributions
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https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=329097
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-12T16:26:38Z
<p>Erónèhire: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user feanor blind}}{{userbox<br />
| border-c=#000000<br />
| id=[[File:J.R.R. Tolkien - Ambarkanta Map V.png|60px]]<br />
| id-c=white<br />
| id-p=0px<br />
| info=This user favors the '''[[Arda|Flat World Silmarillion]]'''.<br />
| info-c=#5aae7a<br />
| info-a=left}}<br />
{{userbox<br />
| border-c=gold<br />
| id='''Orcs ≠<br/>Elves'''<br />
| id-c=black<br />
| id-fc=grey<br />
| id-fs=9<br />
| id-p=0px<br />
| id-css=border-right: 1px solid gold;<br />
| info=This user believes [[Elves]] and [[Orcs]] are '''NOT''' the same race.<br />
| info-c=white<br />
| info-lh=1.15em<br />
}}<br />
{{user tom}}{{user evil2}}{{user userboxes}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=All Tolkien stuff I've read/watched/played:=<br />
<br />
==Books:==<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's [[Unfinished Tales]]'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''[[Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin]]''.<br />
<br />
: 2. ''[[Narn i Hîn Húrin]]''.<br />
<br />
: 3. ''[[A Description of the Island of Númenor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion and Erendis]]''.<br />
<br />
: 5. ''[[The Line of Elros: Kings of Númenor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 6. ''[[The History of Galadriel and Celeborn]].<br />
<br />
: 7. ''[[The Disaster of the Gladden Fields]]''.<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan]]''.<br />
<br />
: 9. ''[[The Quest of Erebor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 10. ''[[The Hunt for the Ring]]''.<br />
<br />
: 11. ''[[The Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''.<br />
<br />
: 12. ''[[The Drúedain]]''.<br />
<br />
: 13. ''[[The Istari]]''.<br />
<br />
: 14. ''[[The Palantíri]]''.<br />
<br />
: 15. [[Amroth]], King of [[Lorien]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth]], Beorhtelm's son''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[Tree and Leaf]]''.<br />
<br />
==Movies==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[The Hobbit (film series)]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
==Video Games==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game]]''''.<br />
<br />
=Favorites=<br />
<br />
==Characters==<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
<br />
==Places==<br />
* [[Númenor]].<br />
* [[Erebor]].<br />
* [[Dale]].<br />
* [[Rohan]].<br />
* [[Himling]].<br />
<br />
==Weapons of Choice==<br />
1. Spear.<br />
2. [[Bow]].<br />
3. Sword.<br />
<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]] (I have no idea why this page hadn't already been created).<br />
* [[Template:User feanor blind]].</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Template:User_feanor_blind&diff=329096
Template:User feanor blind
2021-03-12T16:25:56Z
<p>Erónèhire: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{userbox<br />
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| id=[[Image:Catherine Karina Chmiel - Feanor.jpg|45px]]<br />
| id-c=black<br />
| info=This user believes [[Fëanor|<span style="color:#C00000">Fëanor</span>]] and [[Sons of Fëanor|<span style="color:#C00000">his sons</span>]] were [[Oath of Feanor | blind]] murderers with selfish aims.<br />
| info-c=#400000<br />
| info-fc=red<br />
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}}<noinclude>{{clear}}<pre>{{user feanor blind}}</pre></div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Template:User_feanor_blind&diff=329095
Template:User feanor blind
2021-03-12T16:25:34Z
<p>Erónèhire: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{userbox<br />
| border-c=red<br />
| id=[[Image:Catherine Karina Chmiel - Feanor.jpg|45px]]<br />
| id-c=black<br />
| info=This user believes [[Fëanor|<span style="color:#C00000">Fëanor</span>]] and [[Sons of Fëanor|<span style="color:#C00000">his sons</span>]] were [[Oath of Feanor | blinded]] murderers with selfish aims.<br />
| info-c=#400000<br />
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| info-fs=7<br />
}}<noinclude>{{clear}}<pre>{{user feanor blind}}</pre></div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Template:User_feanor_blind&diff=329094
Template:User feanor blind
2021-03-12T16:19:37Z
<p>Erónèhire: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{userbox<br />
| border-c=red<br />
| id=[[Image:Catherine Karina Chmiel - Feanor.jpg|45px]]<br />
| id-c=black<br />
| info=This user believes [[Fëanor|<span style="color:#C00000">Fëanor</span>]] and [[Sons of Fëanor|<span style="color:#C00000">his sons</span>]] were [[The Oath of Feanor | blind]] murderers with selfish aims.<br />
| info-c=#400000<br />
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}}<noinclude>{{clear}}<pre>{{user feanor blind}}</pre></div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Template:User_feanor_blind&diff=329093
Template:User feanor blind
2021-03-12T16:19:25Z
<p>Erónèhire: Created page with "{{userbox | border-c=red | id=45px | id-c=black | info=This user believes <span style="color:#C00000">Fëanor</span> an..."</p>
<hr />
<div>{{userbox<br />
| border-c=red<br />
| id=[[Image:Catherine Karina Chmiel - Feanor.jpg|45px]]<br />
| id-c=black<br />
| info=This user believes [[Fëanor|<span style="color:#C00000">Fëanor</span>]] and [[Sons of Fëanor|<span style="color:#C00000">his sons</span>]] were [[The Oath of Feanor | blind]] murderers with selfish aims.<br />
| info-c=#400000<br />
| info-fc=red<br />
| info-fs=7<br />
}}<noinclude>{{clear}}<pre>{{user feanor blind}}</pre><br />
<br />
{{user feanor blind}}</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LorenzoCB&diff=329088
User talk:LorenzoCB
2021-03-12T15:15:08Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Userboxes */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Template:Welcome|realName=Lorenzo Carrera |name=LorenzoCB}}<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 18:43, 9 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Hello!==<br />
Thanks for your recent contributions, LorenzoCB! When you write at talk pages, please make sure to sign your posts with <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>, which will automatically show a link to your user name and date/time when writing the post.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:15, 3 May 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Middle-earτh Shadow of War ==<br />
Hello. Can you upload at least one image related to the videogame [[Middle-earth: Shadow of War|Middle-earth Shadow of War]]?I don't have the ability to upload images on Tolkien Gateway but you do have this ability.<br />
:Hi! I recommend you to make your own account, then you can write all the article about Middle-earth: Shadow of War, as it is almost empty and you seem to be very interested on it. When you get 50 editions you'll be able to upload images. Now please, stop spamming about that. I won't do it, I personally don't like those games.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 14:40, 11 June 2019 (UTC)<br />
Hello. I would like to upload an image on page [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]] but I can't upload images on Tolkien Gateway. Can you upload this image that I have uploaded on the specific page.<br />
:There you have it :) You need 50 edits to upload images, btw. Hope you can get them improving the game articles. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 22:11, 20 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dagor Dagorath ==<br />
Hi LorenzoCB, great job on your rewriting of the [[Dagor Dagorath]] article! Also, thank you for the kind corrections of my woeful ignorance of early names for characters in the Legendarium. Oops. :) --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 18:26, 26 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
:It was just a detail. Thank you for correcting my English, I couldn't imagine I made so many grammatical mistakes! --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 23:03, 26 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
::Your English is a lot better than my Spanish :) And I'm just picky when it comes to grammar! --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br />
<br />
== Help ==<br />
Can you help me fix what I have done on page Isildur because I don't know what to do.<br />
:I didn't see many problems. I fixed the style. Btw, I added the cover of Shadows of War. Last time I confused the games and uploaded the one for Shadows of Mordor :P Remember to sign when you write in a talkpage. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:09, 28 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Image categories ==<br />
<br />
Hi there. I don't know if you've noticed but there has been a convention (which isn't fully realised but increasingly I have slowly implemented) that for image categories the order has been 1) Artist 2) Where it's from 3) what/who it is depicting and these should be listed in alphabetical order (see [[:File:Alan Lee - The Elvenking's Gate.jpg]] as an example). If you could keep this in mind when changing or adding categories that would be appreciated. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:36, 5 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Hi! Thanks for explaining that. I was trying to include the categories in alphabetical order, as I didn't relize there was a formal style for that. I'll do as you say. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 11:53, 5 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Sure, although [[:File:Mysilvergreen - In a dungeon.jpg|this one]] and [[:File:Ted Nasmith - Tuor and Voronwë See Túrin at the Pool of Ivrin.jpg|this one]] weren't in alphabetical order. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:03, 5 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Webcite ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Just a note to remind you that, as per the usage information on [[Template:Webcite]], the "accessed" field is not optional; you should use this to show the date you accessed the page. Thanks! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:08, 23 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As the date showed up authomatically I wasn't including it the last times, but now I see that it was just some kind of preview. Thanks for pointing it out. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 12:19, 23 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
==Lost Tales==<br />
Hi Lorenzo, I appreciate much your work on expanding the pages on HoMe.<br />
<br />
Sometimes I have been thinking if we should dedicate some virtual "space" of this wiki for the Lost Tales continuity, I mean we already have LT-related articles like [[Gruir]], [[Gilfanon]], [[Noldoli]], [[Inglor]] and so on. However for topics that are covered in published canon, we use the "Other version of the Legendarium" section, see for example [[Tol_Eressea#Other_versions_of_the_Legendarium]] or [[Mandos#Other_versions_of_the_Legendarium]]. But I believe there is much more that deserves to be told about the LT topics. So I had the thought about creating alternate pages dedicated to the "alternate" versions of those topics, something like [[Tol Eressea (Lost Tales)]]. Perhaps we should also include them in categories like "Lost Tales characters" or "Lost Tales locations" and even have some template on the top of each article that notifies we are talking about the "Lost Tales continuity", instead of the generic one about Tolkien's early, unfinished and best thoughts. So we can have a fully functional sub-wiki within the wiki covering the LT topics in a clean way. Similar to how Wookieepedia handles the Canon and the Legends articles.<br />
<br />
These are my first thoughts, and I'd like to know your thoughts, before opening a forum topic. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 23:44, 1 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Sage! Actually, I hate templates on the top of articles (because of how they look), but yours seems a good idea. It could help to clean the sections of OVOTL, that sometimes are a messy hotchpotch. However, I would wait until we have completed at least all the chapter summaries. The LT are a difficult topic, as there is not really a continuity (for example, I personally think that Christopher should have published the ''Part Two'' first), so I think it would be better to have a good base before clasifying things. And yes, I have planned to make those summaries at some point, don't know when.<br />
:Happy new year. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 00:28, 2 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hello again. Please have a look at the article [[Chasm of Ilmen]] and tell me if we can identify which is the particular earlier (1931) and later (1951) Silmarillion CT says about. Obviously he refers to the Quenta Noldorinwa and the Later Quenta? Or perhaps one of them is the Quenta of the Lost Road? I am not very comfortable with the versions and the dates. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:43, 22 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hello. It took me a while to find the page, you should try to include them more often (if you have the book on hand, of course). Yes, "the 'Silmarillion' that followed Q" (1937) is the ''[[Quenta Silmarillion (Lost Road)]]'' (he cites LR p.242), while the text used in the 77's ''Silmarillion'' is ''Annals of Aman'' §177 (1951). --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:06, 22 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Thank you==<br />
<br />
Thank you for fixing my error on Christopher’s death date, LorenzoCB! I originally did have it as 16 January, but then I saw it as 15 January and thought it was an incorrect time conversion on my part. Whoops! — {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 23:15, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Don't worry. That error has been giving problems in Wikipedia, as many newspapers were giving it mistakenly, and seems like the own Tolkien Family asked to some Tolkien Societies to clarify it.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:36, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
==Foaloke==<br />
The foaloke is a type of dragon distinct from the Uruloke, it shouldn't be discussed in the same article. I think all relevant information should be contained in its distinct article. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:26, 13 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:''[[Foa]]'' was changed to mean "breath", but it doesn't specify if it is because a foaloke "breathes fire" (being then an uruloke), which is the most obvious deduction, as a dragon that just breathes has nothing in particular. However, I agree with having a separated article, but you should make it starting from ''foa'' as "breath", not "hoard". In OVOTL could be included the description of Glorund as a foaloke. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:04, 13 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sauron ==<br />
Firstly, I am not explaining Sauron's origins, but why he fell. Introductions should never be blunt. The sections expand the content of briefly presented in the introduction. <br />
<br />
Secondly, the quote I put is from The Silmarillion - Valaquenta: Of the Enemies. Take a look if you will, I believe it is the last sentence in the paragraph concerning Sauron. --[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ah, as you removed all my edit, I didn't see you later put the quote that there was in the first place. If you want to help the wiki, there are many things that need to be improved: [[Tolkien Gateway:To-do]]. But the Sauron article is one of the few that are pretty fine, that's why I'm concerned with it.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 12:59, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Sorry if I myself am not that receptive or even annoying at times ... I'm having a bad time ... broke up with a girl and all that ... Let's leave the Sauron article as it is for now. I added on the talk page that I changed the image so if someone thinks it doesn't work then we'll change it. I'll try to help out on other articles as well, of course. I appreciate your dedication to the wiki! A nice time till next time! --[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 13:07, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Sorry for being harsh when I point out the mistakes in your Talkpage. I get nervous when people make many edits for just one article, but I should have been more polite. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I would like to point out that I disagree with the choices of the new pics. However I would like to say that some of the recent edits were legit and shouldn't be reverted. When a user makes a lot of edits and another user doesn't agree with stylistic mistakes, they shouldn't revert all the edits, but rather fix the particular points. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:10, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Melkor's Messenger ==<br />
I edited out Sauron and Ungoliant of the Servants of Melkor category, the reasons why are faily logical. Leaving these aside, does it say anyway if Melkor's messenger, Langon, in the Book of Lost Tales is an Ainu? I saw he is mentioned as such in the Allies and Servants of Morgoth section and I don't remember J.R.R. saying anything on Langon's nature. This is all I found on this emissary:<br />
"Melko heard him and was in doubt, he would not come, but sent Langon his servant..."--[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 12:34, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I disagree with removing that category from Sauron. He was his servant for a whole age. He can also have the category of 'Evil' because he later became independent, but he was a true servant, it doesn't matter if he forsook Morgoth; unlike Ungoliant, who was never under Morgoth's command. I fixed the info of [[Langon]], thanks for pointing that out. But there are better things than caring for the categories.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 13:49, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lost Tales ==<br />
Can you give me an example about that Gnomes category? For example, we should add this to the articles about Feanor and Beren ? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 18:41, 14 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I mean for those characters that didn't have a development beyond the "Gnome" phase, like [[Gilfanon]], [[Littleheart]]... If in the future we make articles for Beren the Gnome and others, that category would be applied. But now those examples are categorized as "Noldor", anachronically. (You can answer me in your talkpage, btw). --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:37, 14 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
==Oropher==<br />
Please have a look at [[Talk:Oropher]]. There is a passage that has been overlooked. I think the page about Oropher itself, as well as topics about the Elves of Lindon, the Sindar etc have some mistakes concerning their migrations. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:46, 14 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Answered, I hope I helped. Do you take care of the matter? --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 13:39, 14 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Eduardo Segura==<br />
Hey why did you remove the information and link from the article without an explanation? <br />
<br />
And why do you plan leaving here? That was ''lathspel''. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 18:42, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Eduardo did work as a consultant for the movies, but he told me he had no impact, so it was not pertinent to include that info. He also asked me to remove that link, as he lost his web domain. Sorry, I should have indicated that, but as I am the only one involved with that article I didn't bother. <br />
<br />
:I'm leaving because the wiki requires time, and I want to focus more on other projects and on my spiritual life. Also, I feel many things are gonna change soon and I don't think I'll be able to edit. But I'm still around here, I want to finish some things before. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:00, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Image of Tevildo ==<br />
<br />
I was just wondering, where did you get that image (I know it's from "Beren and Lúthien", but where, specifically, did you find it on the internet)?<br />
<br />
Also, where did you find the title of the image? --[[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]]<br />
<br />
:I found it on the internet, yes, Pinterest or something. I just searched one with a good quality and then I removed the frame following the policy of the wiki. Usually the images of Alan Lee have the title of the chapter from where they come, but there is no rule about that, so I put a more pertinent title. Are you sure we need a gallery for ''Beren and Lúthien''? That imples uploading all its images... --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 12:17, 12 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, I'm planning to upload the entirety of Alan Lee's artwork from both "Beren and Lúthien" as well as those from "The Fall of Gondolin", yet I'm not sure on what should the appropriate title for those images should be. <br />
<br />
::For example, take a look at this [http://misbehavingmaiarhome.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/tumblr_p615bfVvjf1tlkwg5o4_1280.jpg image] from "Beren and Lúthien". In the list of plates from the aforementioned book, this particular image is named ''"Surely that is a Silmaril that shines now in the West?"''. --[[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]]<br />
<br />
:::Oh, if the images are titled in the book, then we should use those titles. I'll change the title of the one with Tevildo when I can check my book. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 15:11, 12 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Grammar on your user page ==<br />
The past tense for the verb to teach in the third paragraph of your user page is wrong. You should write "Tolkien tought me ...". To teach is a verb with an irregular past tense. The past tense of teach is tought. I am not going to write anything in spanish here, but you are welcome to correct my spanish if I ever write anything in spanish. I picked up some spanish by listening to people and by reading the Diario de Cadiz during vacations in Spain (I have to admit that I had latin at school and french at school and at university, so I had some basis in roman languages to start from). My native language is german. I once read an article about books owned by J.R.R. Tolkien and was amazed to see that most of the books o that list were written in german. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 20:19, 2 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Much appreciated! You can freely edit my Userpage if you want correct any grammar mistake. I'm searching now about it and the past tense of teach is actually t'''a'''ught: seems that t'''o'''ught is a common mistake, but thanks again for pointing out mine. About Tolkien's German books, Philology had had a strong development in Germany some time before Tolkien began college, so it was imperative for him to have those. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:47, 2 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You are correct. The past tense of the verb teach is taught. Taught is one of the few words in english that end with aught. More words end with ought and are pronounced in the same way as words ending with aught. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 13:45, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Helge Fauskanger Optimal LOTR Prequel Movie ==<br />
Have you ever read Helge's article about the Westernesse Movie? It would be cool, if Amazon Prime would read his article and adapt it like that.{{unsigned|Akhorahil}}<br />
<br />
:Yes! I wish that too, it has very good ideas. But it is also too short, as it is only about Númenor, and Númenor only comes into the Second Age scenario after hundred of years. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 18:24, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Clarily==<br />
First off, I just wanted to say thank you for all the work you've done on TG, it's always nice to see your username pop up under recent changes. I did want to mention clarily though, since I'm not entirely sure it's a word. I've seen you use it a few times, especially in etymology sections. It might just be a reoccurring typo; I think the word you're going for is "clearly". Sorry for being nitpicky, and for bugging you, I just wanted to let you know. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 02:11, 4 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for your words and correction. My English is still on work, so it is a relieve that we can count with users that take care of grammar. Feel free to correct my edits, I'll propably see it and learn from it. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:13, 4 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Names of Sauron==<br />
You can find the sources for the names and titles of Sauron that you asked for in the "Summary:" text box of your latest edit to the Sauron page on the Sauron page in the Origin section, in the Second Age section in the second paragraph, in the Black Years section in the last paragraph, in the On Númenor section in the second paragraph, in the The Necromancer section in the first paragraph, in the Etymology section and in the Other names and title section. If you have e-books of The Lord of the Rings and of the Silmarillion you can enter a name or title in the search field and look in which chapter or chapters on in which entry in the index it is included. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 14:43, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I know the references of the Elvish names (I included most of them). I meant the names like 'Dark Power' , 'Black One', 'Black Hand', 'Nameless', which do not have any reference through the article or the Names section. I think I'm removing those until somebody provides proper references. The infobox is ridiculously long. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 15:26, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Whatever. I'll try to find the references myself. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 15:29, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I can try to help pin some of them down. 'Black Hand' appears a couple pages into the "Of Túrin Turambar" chapter in the ''Silmarillion'', although I can't tell if that refers to Morgoth or Sauron, I would have to reread the chapter. However, in ''The Two Towers'', in The Black Gate is Closed, Gollum uses the name 'Black Hand' twice in reference to Sauron: "But master is going to take it to him, straight the the Black Hand" "He has only four [fingers] on the Black Hand". In ''Return of the King'' under The Pyre of Denethor, Gandalf twice refers to Sauron as the Dark Power, and the term is used later in the book. I'll work on some of the others, and try to add the references once I find them. Do the references just go in the infobox next to each name, and should all the names be references, even those that appear later in the article? --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 16:06, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's useful, thanks! I'm making a proper list in the Names section, there we can include the references and explanation when necessary. We should avoid including references within the infobox, as it is suppoused to be a summary of the article (at least that's how I see it). --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:12, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Sounds good! Is there a list of names still missing their sources that I can work off of? I don't want to end up redoing work someone else has already done. Looking at the article right now, it's hard for me to see what is sourced and unsourced among the names. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 16:16, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I claimed the article because this is a tough topic, now I'm checking articles about specific names of him. The names of the Valar are quite a mess, but looks like [[Aragorn]] and [[Morgoth]] are more urgent. You'll probably have to deal with names randomly separated in articles, which should be merged with the main article (or not if they are names shared by others). --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:06, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Okay. I will look into the Aragorn and Morgoth articles and see what I can do. By the way, you may already have this, but I did a bit more hunting around for the other names of Sauron you mentioned: 'Black One' is used by Gollum to refer to Sauron in ''The Two Towers'' under The Black Gate is Closed. 'Nameless One' is used by Faramir in ''The Two Towers'' under A Window on the West, and is later used by the men of Gondor in ''Return of the King'' under the Siege of Gondor. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 17:13, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::No, I haven't checked those yet, you saved me time, much appreciated. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 18:12, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
==First Age==<br />
Hey, which "single reference" are you referring to, and what is the "wiki's policy" concerning the "First Age of the Sun"? I am not aware of any such explicit policy and I think the "Ages of the Sun" is a fanon term (I looked for it in HoMe). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:47, 25 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As far as I know, the main reference to the "First Age" as the continuation of the Elder Days is the one from the Appendices that says the Exile of the Noldor happened at the end of the First Age. However, Tolkien, the wiki and the fandom use massively the term to refer to the [[Timeline/First Age|dates]] after the rising of the Sun; it is not an explicit policy, but quite implicit. I said "First Age of the Sun" just to point out the difference between the different conceptions, I'm not proposing anything. There is a terminology hole and we should clarify that before mixing things around.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 11:18, 25 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
::There is also a reference in HoMe that says that the First Age is much longer. Tolkien uses FA dates in the Grey Annals I think, but he doesn't equate FA 1 with solar year 1. This is a convention that began with Foster, which he admits is only a convention, and we follow it for better or worse, but no way it is a policy of the wiki, implicit or not, that we should consider everywhere in the articles that the First Age began in what Foster terms FA 1. Perhaps you might find some such references made years ago by other editors but it is not the first nor the last misconception that we detect in hindsight and we try to fix. On the contrary, that's what we should do. And yea, we follow fanon conventions when there is no better alternative, and when it is not contradicting the canon, but I think accepting "FA 1" as the beginning of the First Age within an article, is a mistake that perpetuates the misconception, and we have the option to avoid. I think removing or editing the First Age title in your list would do less "harm" than leaving it there. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 15:29, 25 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Where in the whole HoMe? I don't deny the facts, tho, but we cannot follow a convention and fix misconceptions at the same time. This is more complex than I thought and I'm just wondering, but I think that if we want to keep consistency in the wiki (which I think is prioritary), we have two options: <br />
:::*To move the dates in [[Timeline/First Age]] to "Years of the Sun ##" or whatever proper term, and be sure that every mention to the "First Age" in the wiki corresponds to the same concept.<br />
:::*To keep Foster's terminology, and explain the problem in the [[First Age]] article (which already does, btw).<br />
:::What we cannot do is saying "the Exile of the Noldor happened at the end of the First Age in the {{FA|1}}". --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:16, 25 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userboxes ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that other users have info boxes that seem to be unlisted in the [[userboxes]] page. Things like "whether or not you believe that Tom Bombadil is the father of nature." To be honest, I was a little envious, but I am also wondering if there is some error that might need to be called to attention. I could have asked Mith, but he doesn't respond as actively as I write, but also you have answered some of my other questions, so I am asking you. <br />
Thank you, --[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 04:22, 12 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I didn't notice that. You can always click on edit a Userpage and copy whatever you want. Here is it: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Template:User_tom . --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 08:20, 12 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think they should all be in here: [[:Category:Userbox templates]]. It's the category for the Userbox templates. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 13:57, 12 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::OK, thanks!--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 15:15, 12 March 2021 (UTC)</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Captain_of_the_Haven&diff=329015
Captain of the Haven
2021-03-12T05:46:31Z
<p>Erónèhire: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{men infobox<br />
| name=The Captain of the Haven<br />
| image=<br />
| people=[[Corsairs of Umbar|Corsair of Umbar]]<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=Leader of the [[Corsairs of Umbar|Corsairs]]<br />
| location=[[Umbar]]<br />
| affiliation=[[Sauron]]<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=between {{TA|2957}} and {{TA|2980|n}}<br />
| deathlocation=Umbar<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
The '''Captain of the Haven''' was the leader of the [[Corsairs of Umbar|Corsairs]] of [[Umbar]] during the time of the [[Ruling Steward|Steward]] [[Ecthelion II]] of [[Gondor]].<br />
<br />
Sometime between {{TA|2957|n}} and {{TA|2980}}, [[Aragorn]] (in the guise of ''[[Thorongil]]'') came to Gondor and during that time counselled Ecthelion concerning the rebellious nature of [[Umbar]]. Ecthelion agreed that Thorongil could send a small fleet; arriving at night they burnt the ships of the unprepared Corsairs whilst Thorongil himself killed the Captain of the Haven.<ref>{{App|Stewards}}</ref><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Black Númenóreans]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[fi:Sataman päällikkö]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=329014
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-12T05:39:36Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Books: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=All Tolkien stuff I've read/watched/played:=<br />
<br />
==Books:==<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's [[Unfinished Tales]]'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''[[Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin]]''.<br />
<br />
: 2. ''[[Narn i Hîn Húrin]]''.<br />
<br />
: 3. ''[[A Description of the Island of Númenor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion and Erendis]]''.<br />
<br />
: 5. ''[[The Line of Elros: Kings of Númenor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 6. ''[[The History of Galadriel and Celeborn]].<br />
<br />
: 7. ''[[The Disaster of the Gladden Fields]]''.<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan]]''.<br />
<br />
: 9. ''[[The Quest of Erebor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 10. ''[[The Hunt for the Ring]]''.<br />
<br />
: 11. ''[[The Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''.<br />
<br />
: 12. ''[[The Drúedain]]''.<br />
<br />
: 13. ''[[The Istari]]''.<br />
<br />
: 14. ''[[The Palantíri]]''.<br />
<br />
: 15. [[Amroth]], King of [[Lorien]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth]], Beorhtelm's son''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[Tree and Leaf]]''.<br />
<br />
==Movies==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[The Hobbit (film series)]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
==Video Games==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game]]''''.<br />
<br />
=Favorites=<br />
<br />
==Characters==<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
<br />
==Places==<br />
* [[Númenor]].<br />
* [[Erebor]].<br />
* [[Dale]].<br />
* [[Rohan]].<br />
* [[Himling]].<br />
<br />
==Weapons of Choice==<br />
1. Spear.<br />
2. [[Bow]].<br />
3. Sword.<br />
<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]] (I have no idea why this page hadn't already been created).</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=329013
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-12T05:39:22Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Books: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=All Tolkien stuff I've read/watched/played:=<br />
<br />
==Books:==<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's [[Unfinished Tales]]'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''[[Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin]]''.<br />
<br />
: 2. ''[[Narn i Hîn Húrin]]''.<br />
<br />
: 3. ''[[A Description of the Island of Númenor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion and Erendis]]''.<br />
<br />
: 5. ''[[The Line of Elros: Kings of Númenor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 6. ''[[The History of Galadriel and Celeborn]].<br />
<br />
: 7. ''[[The Disaster of the Gladden Fields]]''.<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan]]''.<br />
<br />
: 9. ''[[The Quest of Erebor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 10. ''[[The Hunt for the Ring]]''.<br />
<br />
: 11. ''[[The Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''.<br />
<br />
: 12. ''[[The Drúedain]]''.<br />
<br />
: 13. ''[[The Istari]]''.<br />
<br />
: 14. ''[[The Palantíri]]''.<br />
<br />
: 15.[[Amroth]], King of [[Lorien]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth]], Beorhtelm's son''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[Tree and Leaf]]''.<br />
<br />
==Movies==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[The Hobbit (film series)]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
==Video Games==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game]]''''.<br />
<br />
=Favorites=<br />
<br />
==Characters==<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
<br />
==Places==<br />
* [[Númenor]].<br />
* [[Erebor]].<br />
* [[Dale]].<br />
* [[Rohan]].<br />
* [[Himling]].<br />
<br />
==Weapons of Choice==<br />
1. Spear.<br />
2. [[Bow]].<br />
3. Sword.<br />
<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]] (I have no idea why this page hadn't already been created).</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=329012
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-12T05:37:50Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Books: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=All Tolkien stuff I've read/watched/played:=<br />
<br />
==Books:==<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's [[Unfinished Tales]]'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''[[Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin]]''.<br />
<br />
: 2. ''[[Narn i Hîn Húrin]]''.<br />
<br />
: 3. ''[[A Description of the Island of Númenor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion and Erendis]]''.<br />
<br />
: 5. ''[[The Line of Elros: Kings of Númenor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 6. ''[[The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]], King of [[Lorien]]''.<br />
<br />
: 7. ''[[The Disaster of the Gladden Fields]]''.<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan]]''.<br />
<br />
: 9. ''[[The Quest of Erebor]]''.<br />
<br />
: 10. ''[[The Hunt for the Ring]]''.<br />
<br />
: 11. ''[[The Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''.<br />
<br />
: 12. ''[[The Drúedain]]''.<br />
<br />
: 13. ''[[The Istari]]''.<br />
<br />
: 14. ''[[The Palantíri]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth]], Beorhtelm's son''.<br />
<br />
* ''[[Tree and Leaf]]''.<br />
<br />
==Movies==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[The Hobbit (film series)]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
==Video Games==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game]]''''.<br />
<br />
=Favorites=<br />
<br />
==Characters==<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
<br />
==Places==<br />
* [[Númenor]].<br />
* [[Erebor]].<br />
* [[Dale]].<br />
* [[Rohan]].<br />
* [[Himling]].<br />
<br />
==Weapons of Choice==<br />
1. Spear.<br />
2. [[Bow]].<br />
3. Sword.<br />
<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]] (I have no idea why this page hadn't already been created).</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LorenzoCB&diff=329011
User talk:LorenzoCB
2021-03-12T04:22:45Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Userboxes */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Template:Welcome|realName=Lorenzo Carrera |name=LorenzoCB}}<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 18:43, 9 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Hello!==<br />
Thanks for your recent contributions, LorenzoCB! When you write at talk pages, please make sure to sign your posts with <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>, which will automatically show a link to your user name and date/time when writing the post.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 22:15, 3 May 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Middle-earτh Shadow of War ==<br />
Hello. Can you upload at least one image related to the videogame [[Middle-earth: Shadow of War|Middle-earth Shadow of War]]?I don't have the ability to upload images on Tolkien Gateway but you do have this ability.<br />
:Hi! I recommend you to make your own account, then you can write all the article about Middle-earth: Shadow of War, as it is almost empty and you seem to be very interested on it. When you get 50 editions you'll be able to upload images. Now please, stop spamming about that. I won't do it, I personally don't like those games.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 14:40, 11 June 2019 (UTC)<br />
Hello. I would like to upload an image on page [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]] but I can't upload images on Tolkien Gateway. Can you upload this image that I have uploaded on the specific page.<br />
:There you have it :) You need 50 edits to upload images, btw. Hope you can get them improving the game articles. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 22:11, 20 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dagor Dagorath ==<br />
Hi LorenzoCB, great job on your rewriting of the [[Dagor Dagorath]] article! Also, thank you for the kind corrections of my woeful ignorance of early names for characters in the Legendarium. Oops. :) --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 18:26, 26 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
:It was just a detail. Thank you for correcting my English, I couldn't imagine I made so many grammatical mistakes! --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 23:03, 26 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
::Your English is a lot better than my Spanish :) And I'm just picky when it comes to grammar! --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}<br />
<br />
== Help ==<br />
Can you help me fix what I have done on page Isildur because I don't know what to do.<br />
:I didn't see many problems. I fixed the style. Btw, I added the cover of Shadows of War. Last time I confused the games and uploaded the one for Shadows of Mordor :P Remember to sign when you write in a talkpage. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:09, 28 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Image categories ==<br />
<br />
Hi there. I don't know if you've noticed but there has been a convention (which isn't fully realised but increasingly I have slowly implemented) that for image categories the order has been 1) Artist 2) Where it's from 3) what/who it is depicting and these should be listed in alphabetical order (see [[:File:Alan Lee - The Elvenking's Gate.jpg]] as an example). If you could keep this in mind when changing or adding categories that would be appreciated. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 07:36, 5 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Hi! Thanks for explaining that. I was trying to include the categories in alphabetical order, as I didn't relize there was a formal style for that. I'll do as you say. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 11:53, 5 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Sure, although [[:File:Mysilvergreen - In a dungeon.jpg|this one]] and [[:File:Ted Nasmith - Tuor and Voronwë See Túrin at the Pool of Ivrin.jpg|this one]] weren't in alphabetical order. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:03, 5 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Webcite ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Just a note to remind you that, as per the usage information on [[Template:Webcite]], the "accessed" field is not optional; you should use this to show the date you accessed the page. Thanks! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:08, 23 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As the date showed up authomatically I wasn't including it the last times, but now I see that it was just some kind of preview. Thanks for pointing it out. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 12:19, 23 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
==Lost Tales==<br />
Hi Lorenzo, I appreciate much your work on expanding the pages on HoMe.<br />
<br />
Sometimes I have been thinking if we should dedicate some virtual "space" of this wiki for the Lost Tales continuity, I mean we already have LT-related articles like [[Gruir]], [[Gilfanon]], [[Noldoli]], [[Inglor]] and so on. However for topics that are covered in published canon, we use the "Other version of the Legendarium" section, see for example [[Tol_Eressea#Other_versions_of_the_Legendarium]] or [[Mandos#Other_versions_of_the_Legendarium]]. But I believe there is much more that deserves to be told about the LT topics. So I had the thought about creating alternate pages dedicated to the "alternate" versions of those topics, something like [[Tol Eressea (Lost Tales)]]. Perhaps we should also include them in categories like "Lost Tales characters" or "Lost Tales locations" and even have some template on the top of each article that notifies we are talking about the "Lost Tales continuity", instead of the generic one about Tolkien's early, unfinished and best thoughts. So we can have a fully functional sub-wiki within the wiki covering the LT topics in a clean way. Similar to how Wookieepedia handles the Canon and the Legends articles.<br />
<br />
These are my first thoughts, and I'd like to know your thoughts, before opening a forum topic. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 23:44, 1 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Sage! Actually, I hate templates on the top of articles (because of how they look), but yours seems a good idea. It could help to clean the sections of OVOTL, that sometimes are a messy hotchpotch. However, I would wait until we have completed at least all the chapter summaries. The LT are a difficult topic, as there is not really a continuity (for example, I personally think that Christopher should have published the ''Part Two'' first), so I think it would be better to have a good base before clasifying things. And yes, I have planned to make those summaries at some point, don't know when.<br />
:Happy new year. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 00:28, 2 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hello again. Please have a look at the article [[Chasm of Ilmen]] and tell me if we can identify which is the particular earlier (1931) and later (1951) Silmarillion CT says about. Obviously he refers to the Quenta Noldorinwa and the Later Quenta? Or perhaps one of them is the Quenta of the Lost Road? I am not very comfortable with the versions and the dates. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:43, 22 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hello. It took me a while to find the page, you should try to include them more often (if you have the book on hand, of course). Yes, "the 'Silmarillion' that followed Q" (1937) is the ''[[Quenta Silmarillion (Lost Road)]]'' (he cites LR p.242), while the text used in the 77's ''Silmarillion'' is ''Annals of Aman'' §177 (1951). --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:06, 22 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Thank you==<br />
<br />
Thank you for fixing my error on Christopher’s death date, LorenzoCB! I originally did have it as 16 January, but then I saw it as 15 January and thought it was an incorrect time conversion on my part. Whoops! — {{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}} 23:15, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Don't worry. That error has been giving problems in Wikipedia, as many newspapers were giving it mistakenly, and seems like the own Tolkien Family asked to some Tolkien Societies to clarify it.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:36, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
==Foaloke==<br />
The foaloke is a type of dragon distinct from the Uruloke, it shouldn't be discussed in the same article. I think all relevant information should be contained in its distinct article. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:26, 13 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:''[[Foa]]'' was changed to mean "breath", but it doesn't specify if it is because a foaloke "breathes fire" (being then an uruloke), which is the most obvious deduction, as a dragon that just breathes has nothing in particular. However, I agree with having a separated article, but you should make it starting from ''foa'' as "breath", not "hoard". In OVOTL could be included the description of Glorund as a foaloke. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:04, 13 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sauron ==<br />
Firstly, I am not explaining Sauron's origins, but why he fell. Introductions should never be blunt. The sections expand the content of briefly presented in the introduction. <br />
<br />
Secondly, the quote I put is from The Silmarillion - Valaquenta: Of the Enemies. Take a look if you will, I believe it is the last sentence in the paragraph concerning Sauron. --[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ah, as you removed all my edit, I didn't see you later put the quote that there was in the first place. If you want to help the wiki, there are many things that need to be improved: [[Tolkien Gateway:To-do]]. But the Sauron article is one of the few that are pretty fine, that's why I'm concerned with it.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 12:59, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Sorry if I myself am not that receptive or even annoying at times ... I'm having a bad time ... broke up with a girl and all that ... Let's leave the Sauron article as it is for now. I added on the talk page that I changed the image so if someone thinks it doesn't work then we'll change it. I'll try to help out on other articles as well, of course. I appreciate your dedication to the wiki! A nice time till next time! --[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 13:07, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Sorry for being harsh when I point out the mistakes in your Talkpage. I get nervous when people make many edits for just one article, but I should have been more polite. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I would like to point out that I disagree with the choices of the new pics. However I would like to say that some of the recent edits were legit and shouldn't be reverted. When a user makes a lot of edits and another user doesn't agree with stylistic mistakes, they shouldn't revert all the edits, but rather fix the particular points. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:10, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Melkor's Messenger ==<br />
I edited out Sauron and Ungoliant of the Servants of Melkor category, the reasons why are faily logical. Leaving these aside, does it say anyway if Melkor's messenger, Langon, in the Book of Lost Tales is an Ainu? I saw he is mentioned as such in the Allies and Servants of Morgoth section and I don't remember J.R.R. saying anything on Langon's nature. This is all I found on this emissary:<br />
"Melko heard him and was in doubt, he would not come, but sent Langon his servant..."--[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 12:34, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I disagree with removing that category from Sauron. He was his servant for a whole age. He can also have the category of 'Evil' because he later became independent, but he was a true servant, it doesn't matter if he forsook Morgoth; unlike Ungoliant, who was never under Morgoth's command. I fixed the info of [[Langon]], thanks for pointing that out. But there are better things than caring for the categories.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 13:49, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lost Tales ==<br />
Can you give me an example about that Gnomes category? For example, we should add this to the articles about Feanor and Beren ? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 18:41, 14 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I mean for those characters that didn't have a development beyond the "Gnome" phase, like [[Gilfanon]], [[Littleheart]]... If in the future we make articles for Beren the Gnome and others, that category would be applied. But now those examples are categorized as "Noldor", anachronically. (You can answer me in your talkpage, btw). --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:37, 14 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
==Oropher==<br />
Please have a look at [[Talk:Oropher]]. There is a passage that has been overlooked. I think the page about Oropher itself, as well as topics about the Elves of Lindon, the Sindar etc have some mistakes concerning their migrations. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:46, 14 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Answered, I hope I helped. Do you take care of the matter? --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 13:39, 14 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Eduardo Segura==<br />
Hey why did you remove the information and link from the article without an explanation? <br />
<br />
And why do you plan leaving here? That was ''lathspel''. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 18:42, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Eduardo did work as a consultant for the movies, but he told me he had no impact, so it was not pertinent to include that info. He also asked me to remove that link, as he lost his web domain. Sorry, I should have indicated that, but as I am the only one involved with that article I didn't bother. <br />
<br />
:I'm leaving because the wiki requires time, and I want to focus more on other projects and on my spiritual life. Also, I feel many things are gonna change soon and I don't think I'll be able to edit. But I'm still around here, I want to finish some things before. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:00, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Image of Tevildo ==<br />
<br />
I was just wondering, where did you get that image (I know it's from "Beren and Lúthien", but where, specifically, did you find it on the internet)?<br />
<br />
Also, where did you find the title of the image? --[[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]]<br />
<br />
:I found it on the internet, yes, Pinterest or something. I just searched one with a good quality and then I removed the frame following the policy of the wiki. Usually the images of Alan Lee have the title of the chapter from where they come, but there is no rule about that, so I put a more pertinent title. Are you sure we need a gallery for ''Beren and Lúthien''? That imples uploading all its images... --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 12:17, 12 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, I'm planning to upload the entirety of Alan Lee's artwork from both "Beren and Lúthien" as well as those from "The Fall of Gondolin", yet I'm not sure on what should the appropriate title for those images should be. <br />
<br />
::For example, take a look at this [http://misbehavingmaiarhome.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/tumblr_p615bfVvjf1tlkwg5o4_1280.jpg image] from "Beren and Lúthien". In the list of plates from the aforementioned book, this particular image is named ''"Surely that is a Silmaril that shines now in the West?"''. --[[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]]<br />
<br />
:::Oh, if the images are titled in the book, then we should use those titles. I'll change the title of the one with Tevildo when I can check my book. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 15:11, 12 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Grammar on your user page ==<br />
The past tense for the verb to teach in the third paragraph of your user page is wrong. You should write "Tolkien tought me ...". To teach is a verb with an irregular past tense. The past tense of teach is tought. I am not going to write anything in spanish here, but you are welcome to correct my spanish if I ever write anything in spanish. I picked up some spanish by listening to people and by reading the Diario de Cadiz during vacations in Spain (I have to admit that I had latin at school and french at school and at university, so I had some basis in roman languages to start from). My native language is german. I once read an article about books owned by J.R.R. Tolkien and was amazed to see that most of the books o that list were written in german. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 20:19, 2 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Much appreciated! You can freely edit my Userpage if you want correct any grammar mistake. I'm searching now about it and the past tense of teach is actually t'''a'''ught: seems that t'''o'''ught is a common mistake, but thanks again for pointing out mine. About Tolkien's German books, Philology had had a strong development in Germany some time before Tolkien began college, so it was imperative for him to have those. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 20:47, 2 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You are correct. The past tense of the verb teach is taught. Taught is one of the few words in english that end with aught. More words end with ought and are pronounced in the same way as words ending with aught. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 13:45, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Helge Fauskanger Optimal LOTR Prequel Movie ==<br />
Have you ever read Helge's article about the Westernesse Movie? It would be cool, if Amazon Prime would read his article and adapt it like that.{{unsigned|Akhorahil}}<br />
<br />
:Yes! I wish that too, it has very good ideas. But it is also too short, as it is only about Númenor, and Númenor only comes into the Second Age scenario after hundred of years. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 18:24, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Clarily==<br />
First off, I just wanted to say thank you for all the work you've done on TG, it's always nice to see your username pop up under recent changes. I did want to mention clarily though, since I'm not entirely sure it's a word. I've seen you use it a few times, especially in etymology sections. It might just be a reoccurring typo; I think the word you're going for is "clearly". Sorry for being nitpicky, and for bugging you, I just wanted to let you know. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 02:11, 4 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for your words and correction. My English is still on work, so it is a relieve that we can count with users that take care of grammar. Feel free to correct my edits, I'll propably see it and learn from it. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:13, 4 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Names of Sauron==<br />
You can find the sources for the names and titles of Sauron that you asked for in the "Summary:" text box of your latest edit to the Sauron page on the Sauron page in the Origin section, in the Second Age section in the second paragraph, in the Black Years section in the last paragraph, in the On Númenor section in the second paragraph, in the The Necromancer section in the first paragraph, in the Etymology section and in the Other names and title section. If you have e-books of The Lord of the Rings and of the Silmarillion you can enter a name or title in the search field and look in which chapter or chapters on in which entry in the index it is included. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 14:43, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I know the references of the Elvish names (I included most of them). I meant the names like 'Dark Power' , 'Black One', 'Black Hand', 'Nameless', which do not have any reference through the article or the Names section. I think I'm removing those until somebody provides proper references. The infobox is ridiculously long. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 15:26, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Whatever. I'll try to find the references myself. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 15:29, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I can try to help pin some of them down. 'Black Hand' appears a couple pages into the "Of Túrin Turambar" chapter in the ''Silmarillion'', although I can't tell if that refers to Morgoth or Sauron, I would have to reread the chapter. However, in ''The Two Towers'', in The Black Gate is Closed, Gollum uses the name 'Black Hand' twice in reference to Sauron: "But master is going to take it to him, straight the the Black Hand" "He has only four [fingers] on the Black Hand". In ''Return of the King'' under The Pyre of Denethor, Gandalf twice refers to Sauron as the Dark Power, and the term is used later in the book. I'll work on some of the others, and try to add the references once I find them. Do the references just go in the infobox next to each name, and should all the names be references, even those that appear later in the article? --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 16:06, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's useful, thanks! I'm making a proper list in the Names section, there we can include the references and explanation when necessary. We should avoid including references within the infobox, as it is suppoused to be a summary of the article (at least that's how I see it). --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:12, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Sounds good! Is there a list of names still missing their sources that I can work off of? I don't want to end up redoing work someone else has already done. Looking at the article right now, it's hard for me to see what is sourced and unsourced among the names. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 16:16, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I claimed the article because this is a tough topic, now I'm checking articles about specific names of him. The names of the Valar are quite a mess, but looks like [[Aragorn]] and [[Morgoth]] are more urgent. You'll probably have to deal with names randomly separated in articles, which should be merged with the main article (or not if they are names shared by others). --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 17:06, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Okay. I will look into the Aragorn and Morgoth articles and see what I can do. By the way, you may already have this, but I did a bit more hunting around for the other names of Sauron you mentioned: 'Black One' is used by Gollum to refer to Sauron in ''The Two Towers'' under The Black Gate is Closed. 'Nameless One' is used by Faramir in ''The Two Towers'' under A Window on the West, and is later used by the men of Gondor in ''Return of the King'' under the Siege of Gondor. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 17:13, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::No, I haven't checked those yet, you saved me time, much appreciated. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 18:12, 22 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
==First Age==<br />
Hey, which "single reference" are you referring to, and what is the "wiki's policy" concerning the "First Age of the Sun"? I am not aware of any such explicit policy and I think the "Ages of the Sun" is a fanon term (I looked for it in HoMe). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:47, 25 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As far as I know, the main reference to the "First Age" as the continuation of the Elder Days is the one from the Appendices that says the Exile of the Noldor happened at the end of the First Age. However, Tolkien, the wiki and the fandom use massively the term to refer to the [[Timeline/First Age|dates]] after the rising of the Sun; it is not an explicit policy, but quite implicit. I said "First Age of the Sun" just to point out the difference between the different conceptions, I'm not proposing anything. There is a terminology hole and we should clarify that before mixing things around.--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 11:18, 25 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
::There is also a reference in HoMe that says that the First Age is much longer. Tolkien uses FA dates in the Grey Annals I think, but he doesn't equate FA 1 with solar year 1. This is a convention that began with Foster, which he admits is only a convention, and we follow it for better or worse, but no way it is a policy of the wiki, implicit or not, that we should consider everywhere in the articles that the First Age began in what Foster terms FA 1. Perhaps you might find some such references made years ago by other editors but it is not the first nor the last misconception that we detect in hindsight and we try to fix. On the contrary, that's what we should do. And yea, we follow fanon conventions when there is no better alternative, and when it is not contradicting the canon, but I think accepting "FA 1" as the beginning of the First Age within an article, is a mistake that perpetuates the misconception, and we have the option to avoid. I think removing or editing the First Age title in your list would do less "harm" than leaving it there. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 15:29, 25 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Where in the whole HoMe? I don't deny the facts, tho, but we cannot follow a convention and fix misconceptions at the same time. This is more complex than I thought and I'm just wondering, but I think that if we want to keep consistency in the wiki (which I think is prioritary), we have two options: <br />
:::*To move the dates in [[Timeline/First Age]] to "Years of the Sun ##" or whatever proper term, and be sure that every mention to the "First Age" in the wiki corresponds to the same concept.<br />
:::*To keep Foster's terminology, and explain the problem in the [[First Age]] article (which already does, btw).<br />
:::What we cannot do is saying "the Exile of the Noldor happened at the end of the First Age in the {{FA|1}}". --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:16, 25 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userboxes ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that other users have info boxes that seem to be unlisted in the [[userboxes]] page. Things like "whether or not you believe that Tom Bombadil is the father of nature." To be honest, I was a little envious, but I am also wondering if there is some error that might need to be called to attention. I could have asked Mith, but he doesn't respond as actively as I write, but also you have answered some of my other questions, so I am asking you. <br />
Thank you, --[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 04:22, 12 March 2021 (UTC)</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=329007
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-12T03:16:39Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Favorites */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=All Tolkien stuff I've read/watched/played:=<br />
<br />
==Books:==<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
==Movies==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[The Hobbit (film series)]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
==Video Games==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game]]''''.<br />
<br />
=Favorites=<br />
<br />
==Characters==<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
<br />
==Places==<br />
* [[Númenor]].<br />
* [[Erebor]].<br />
* [[Dale]].<br />
* [[Rohan]].<br />
* [[Himling]].<br />
<br />
==Weapons of Choice==<br />
1. Spear.<br />
2. [[Bow]].<br />
3. Sword.<br />
<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]] (I have no idea why this page hadn't already been created).</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=329006
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-12T03:14:48Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Favorite Characters */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=All Tolkien stuff I've read/watched/played:=<br />
<br />
==Books:==<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
==Movies==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[The Hobbit (film series)]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
==Video Games==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game]]''''.<br />
<br />
=Favorites=<br />
<br />
==Characters==<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
<br />
==Places==<br />
* [[Númenor]].<br />
* [[Erebor]].<br />
* [[Dale]].<br />
* [[Rohan]].<br />
* [[Himling]].<br />
<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]] (I have no idea why this page hadn't already been created).</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=329005
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-12T03:11:49Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Books I've read: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=All Tolkien stuff I've read/watched/played:=<br />
<br />
==Books:==<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
==Movies==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[The Hobbit (film series)]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''''.<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Peter Jackson]]'s [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'''' (Extended Edition).<br />
<br />
==Video Games==<br />
<br />
* ''''[[Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game]]''''.<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]] (I have no idea why this page hadn't already been created).</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lego_The_Hobbit:_The_Video_Game&diff=329004
Talk:Lego The Hobbit: The Video Game
2021-03-12T03:03:59Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Trailer */</p>
<hr />
<div>=Trailer=<br />
The Trailer link is broken.--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 03:03, 12 March 2021 (UTC)</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lego_The_Hobbit:_The_Video_Game&diff=329003
Talk:Lego The Hobbit: The Video Game
2021-03-12T03:03:51Z
<p>Erónèhire: Created page with "=Trailer= The Trailer link is broken."</p>
<hr />
<div>=Trailer=<br />
The Trailer link is broken.</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=329002
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-12T02:52:20Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Books I've read: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]] (I have no idea why this page hadn't already been created).</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=329001
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-12T02:51:55Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Books I've read: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''[[Narn I Hîn Húrin]]''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]] (I have no idea why this page hadn't already been created).</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=329000
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-12T02:47:57Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Created Pages: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]] (I have no idea why this page hadn't already been created).</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Grace18&diff=328999
User talk:Grace18
2021-03-12T02:40:57Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* One-Handed */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Grace18}}<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 01:31, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===My Apologies===<br />
Hi Grace18, I'm just here to say sorry about my accidental edit of [[Huan]]. I was fixing some grammatical errors when the entire page just blanked...I'm not even sure what happened. Thank you for fixing it.<br />
- Ancalagon the Black 19:31, 26 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:No worries! It was just a mistake, and an easy fix for me to undo. I'm still figuring out the system myself, so I completely understand. I don't know what caused the page to blank, but if you hit preview before you finalize it, it will show you what the edited page will look like, and if it does something weird, I would just hit cancel unless you can figure out what the problem is. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 19:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I will make sure to do that every time I'm editing from now on. Thank you! - Ancalagon the Black 20:11, 26 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==About your questions==<br />
*If you are not sure if a template should be removed, ask it in the talkpage, but if you think you have done a good work and everything is according to the MoS, just do it: if others disagree they will notice. We need to clean up a little, those ugly templates are applied everywhere.<br />
*We should define better how to standardise History sections. Definitely, ''The Children of Húrin'' is better matter to be used in the History sections, as it is more detailed, while the edition of ''The Silmarillion'' can be discussed in OVOTL.<br />
*Like any article, if the info is not much, it's not worth to create a History section, but if we include one, the intro is supposed to be a little summary.<br />
--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:43, 23 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thank you so much! I sometimes feel bad bothering other users with questions, I really appreciate you taking the time to look at those. That clears some things up for me. Thank you!<br />
:--[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 18:52, 23 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You can also write that kind of questions in the own talk page of the page you have doubts of. Feel free to ask me anything. Btw, thank you very much for revising the Christianity article. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 22:46, 23 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== About your first question ==<br />
<br />
Hello Grace18, I am also an American high school student. As to the questions about the 50th-anniversary editions, there are indeed both a 3-volume and a 1-volume version, but that's the only part of that question I can answer. I own the 3-volume 50th-anniversary edition, and my dad owns a one-volume edition, but I don't know what version it is because he won't let me touch it, haha. So all that to say I'm afraid I can't help you with the page number part of your question, but feel free to bug me with any other questions you want. I don't mind a bit. --{{User:Holdwine Meriadoc/sig}}, 04:13, 25 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thank you for the information! I have an old, crumbling paperback one-volume set that is technically my parents, but I have permanently "borrowed" (it lives in my room now, and no one else uses it). It's certainly not the 50th-anniversary edition; it seems to be some other random version that I can't figure out. I've been looking into getting the 50th-anniversary edition, but had no clue what to look for. Any advice helps, much appreciated! --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 05:21, 25 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wishes ==<br />
<br />
Congratulations.You made your first edit on Tolkien Gateway.<br />
<br />
== Infobox ==<br />
<br />
OK, thanks for the resource!<br />
--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 17:21, 24 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One-Handed ==<br />
<br />
We might not need this page, all I did was "Adopt" it. It was an Orphaned Page. It would be fine to delete it, but I would think we should enhance the details of [[Beren]]'s reason for his name.</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Bows&diff=328968
Bows
2021-03-11T18:10:58Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Bows by faction */ This needs a citation, I will come back to it later.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:John Howe - Elven Bow.jpg|frame|''Elven Bow'' by [[John Howe]]]]<br />
'''Bows''' were a common weapon in [[Arda]]. All peoples, Good and Evil, were known to have used them, most notable of them being the [[Elves]], the [[Númenóreans]], [[Rohirrim]], [[Orcs]] and even [[Hobbits]].<ref>[[Anthony Burdge]], [[Jessica Burke]], "Weapons, Named"; in ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]'' (edited by [[Michael D.C. Drout]])</ref><br />
<br />
==Overview==<br />
Bows varied in shape, size and material. While [[Elves|Elven]] flawless bows were made from wood, [[Númenóreans|Númenórean]] bows were made of hollow steel, forged in armories.<ref name=Numenor>{{UT|Numenor}}, p. 170</ref> It is said in a poem that [[Eärendil]] wielded a bow "made of dragon-horn".<ref>{{FR|Earendil}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Bows by faction==<br />
* [[Elves]] of [[Doriath]] and [[Lothlórien]] used longbows which were, as their name suggests, longer bows which could shoot farther and higher than any other types of bows. Elves were the first race to develop and master the use of bows, and later passed their knowledge to [[Men]].<br />
<br />
* [[Númenóreans]] used a type of bow called the steel-bow, which was made of hollow steel, as its name implies. "In later days, in the wars upon Middle-Earth, it was the bows of the Númenóreans that were most greatly feared. 'The Men of the Sea,' it was said, 'send before them a great cloud, as of rain turned to serpents, or a black hail tipped with steel...'". It was used to shoot black-feathered arrows that were a full ell long from point to notch.<ref name=Numenor/> It was much feared by their enemies.<ref>{{UT|Gladden}}, p. 273</ref> Among the royal heirlooms of the [[Kings of Númenor]] was the [[Bow of Bregor]].<ref>{{UT|3a}}, p. 171</ref><br />
<br />
* The [[Gondorians|Gondorian]] army contains units of archers who use a longbow. The bows are made of heartwood, about 68 inches tall. The arrows are about 28 inches long with four-inch steel tips. They're accurate up to 200 yards. The longbowmen of the army wear their quiver (the case that holds the arrows) on their hips rather than on their backs like most archers. Bows were also the primary weapon of the [[Rangers of Ithilien]].<ref>{{HM|TT}}</ref><br />
<br />
* [[Rohirrim]] archers used shortbows, possibly because they fought mounted on horses. The shortbows were much less powerful than those used by other [[Men]], having a range of only 125 yards.<br />
<br />
*[[Hobbits]] also used bows. Hobbit archers fought for [[Arnor]] in the [[Battle of Fornost]],<ref>{{App|Eriador}}</ref> and also participated in the [[Battle of Bywater]].<ref>{{RK|Scouring}}</ref><br />
<br />
*[[Dwarves]] used bows less prominently than the other races, but had them among their military weapons. Dwarven bows were shortbows made of horn, or of a composite build, using horn and wood. [[Thorin Oakenshield]] used a bow to threaten the [[Elves of Mirkwood|Mirkwood Elves]] and the [[Men of Dale]] when he was reluctant to part with the treasures of [[Erebor]].<ref>{{H|17}}</ref><br />
<br />
*[[Orcs]] used bows for hunting, as well as weapons of war. Orcs primarily used bows that were made of horn, although the [[Uruk-hai]] of [[Isengard]] were known to use longer bows in the fashion of Men, which were made of yew.<ref>{{TT|Departure}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Notable bowmen==<br />
* [[Duilin (elf of Gondolin)|Duilin]], a lord of [[Gondolin]], along with his [[House of the Swallow]].<br />
* [[Beleg|Beleg Cúthalion]], who bore [[Belthronding]].<br />
* [[Bard]], who slew the [[Dragons|dragon]] [[Smaug]] with his [[Black Arrow]].<br />
* [[Legolas]], a member of the [[Fellowship of the Ring]].<br />
<br />
==Other names==<br />
*[[Quenya]]: ''quinga''<br />
*[[Sindarin]]/[[Noldorin]]: ''ping'', ''cú''<br />
*[[Nandorin]]: ''cogn''<br />
<br />
The forms ''quinga'', ''ping'' are cognates deriving from the [[Primitive Quendian]] ''kwingā''.<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, entry "KWIG" (in that source the first word is spelled ''qinga'', and the second is [[Noldorin]].</ref><br />
<br />
The form ''cogn'', is derived from [[Primitive Quendian]] ''kuȝnā'', itself representing the [[root]] KUȜ.<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, entry "KUȜ", p. 365</ref><br />
<br />
==Inspirations==<br />
It is possible Tolkien's fascination with bows came from Red Indian stories:<br />
{{blockquote|Red Indians were better: there were bows and arrows (I had and have a wholly unsatisfied desire to shoot well with a bow)|[[On Fairy-Stories]]}}<br />
<br />
{{blockquote|But he [Tolkien] liked Red Indian stories and longed to shoot with a bow and arrow.|[[Humphrey Carpenter]], ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography]]''}}<br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
'''[[2001]]-[[2003]]: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Bows, just like all weapons from the films, were designed during the pre-production by artists like [[Warren Mahy]], with aid from [[Alan Lee]] and [[John Howe]]. The majorty of them were hand-crafted by [[Weta Workshop]] employees.<ref>''[[Weta Workshop (featurette)]]''</ref> Races seen using bows include Men, Elves and Orcs. In ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]]'', the [[Uruk-hai]] use crossbows in the beginning of the [[Battle of Helm's Deep]].<br />
<br />
'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':''' <br />
<br />
:Bows are available to player characters as handheld ranged weapons.<ref>[http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Category:Bow_Items Category: Bow Items], ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'' Wiki</ref> There are also crossbows, less common.<ref>[http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Category:Crossbow_Items Category: Crossbow Items], ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'' Wiki</ref> <br />
<br />
'''[[2012]]-[[2014]]: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Bows, just like all weapons from the films, were designed during the pre-production by artists like [[Warren Mahy]], with aid from [[Alan Lee]] and [[John Howe]]. The majorty of them were hand-crafted by [[Weta Workshop]] employees.<ref>''[[Weta Workshop (featurette)]]''</ref> Races seen using bows include Men, Elves, Dwarves and Orcs.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:Images of bows|Images of bows]]<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Weapons]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Everard_Proudfoot&diff=328956
Everard Proudfoot
2021-03-11T17:45:52Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* History */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{adaptation}}<br />
{{hobbit infobox<br />
| name=Everard Proudfoot<br />
| image=[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring - Everard Proudfoot.png|250px]]<br />
| caption=Everard Proudfoot from ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Hobbiton]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=late [[Third Age]]<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| family=[[Proudfoot Family|Proudfoot]]<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Everard Proudfoot''' is a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] invented for [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]. He is played by [[Noel Appleby]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Mr. Proudfoot was a grumpy old gaffer, who minded his own business and tending his garden. However, he enjoyed [[Gandalf]]'s fireworks and only expressed his disapproval under the supervision of his wife. He was present at [[Bilbo's Farewell Party]].<ref>{{fotree}}</ref> He later met the [[Travellers|four hobbits]] as they returned home from their journey.<ref>{{rotkee}}</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[Odo Proudfoot]]<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Hobbits from adaptations]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=328954
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-11T17:36:27Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-Orphaned Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]].</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=328953
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-11T17:36:13Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted, or, Un-[[Orphaned Pages]]:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]].</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=328952
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-11T17:32:59Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Created Pages: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda Healed]].</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arda_healed&diff=328951
Arda healed
2021-03-11T17:32:36Z
<p>Erónèhire: moved Arda healed to Arda Healed: Only way I could fix the missing cap in the title.</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Arda Healed]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arda_Healed&diff=328950
Arda Healed
2021-03-11T17:32:36Z
<p>Erónèhire: moved Arda healed to Arda Healed: Only way I could fix the missing cap in the title.</p>
<hr />
<div>=Arda Healed=<br />
{{quote|I go now to the halls of waiting to sit beside my fathers, until the world is renewed.|[[Thorin]]<ref>{{H|18}}</ref>}}<br />
According to a prophecy, after the [[Final Battle]], a [[Second Music of the Ainur]] will be sung, forming a new world, called Arda Unmarred or Arda Healed. [[Men]] (it is specifically stated in the ''[[Ainulindalë]]'' that Elves will not be involved) will sing with the Ainur in this Second Music.<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Concepts]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arda_Healed&diff=328949
Arda Healed
2021-03-11T17:32:08Z
<p>Erónèhire: </p>
<hr />
<div>=Arda Healed=<br />
{{quote|I go now to the halls of waiting to sit beside my fathers, until the world is renewed.|[[Thorin]]<ref>{{H|18}}</ref>}}<br />
According to a prophecy, after the [[Final Battle]], a [[Second Music of the Ainur]] will be sung, forming a new world, called Arda Unmarred or Arda Healed. [[Men]] (it is specifically stated in the ''[[Ainulindalë]]'' that Elves will not be involved) will sing with the Ainur in this Second Music.<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Concepts]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=328948
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-11T17:29:23Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Created Pages: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].<br />
* [[Arda healed]].</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arda_Healed&diff=328947
Arda Healed
2021-03-11T17:28:47Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Arda Healed */</p>
<hr />
<div>=Arda healed=<br />
{{quote|I go now to the halls of waiting to sit beside my fathers, until the world is renewed.|[[Thorin]]<ref>{{H|18}}</ref>}}<br />
According to a prophecy, after the [[Final Battle]], a [[Second Music of the Ainur]] will be sung, forming a new world, called Arda Unmarred or Arda Healed. [[Men]] (it is specifically stated in the ''[[Ainulindalë]]'' that Elves will not be involved) will sing with the Ainur in this Second Music.<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Concepts]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arda_Healed&diff=328946
Arda Healed
2021-03-11T17:28:22Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Arda Healed */</p>
<hr />
<div>=Arda Healed=<br />
{{quote|I go now to the halls of waiting to sit beside my fathers, until the world is renewed.|[[Thorin]]<ref>{{H|18}}</ref>}}<br />
According to a prophecy, after the [[Final Battle]], a [[Second Music of the Ainur]] will be sung, forming a new world, called Arda Unmarred or Arda Healed. [[Men]] (it is specifically stated in the ''[[Ainulindalë]]'' that Elves will not be involved) will sing with the Ainur in this Second Music.<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Concepts]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arda_Healed&diff=328945
Arda Healed
2021-03-11T17:26:08Z
<p>Erónèhire: Created page with "=Arda Healed= {{quote|I go now to the halls of waiting to sit beside my fathers, until the world is renewed.|Thorin<ref>{{H|18}}</ref>}} According to a prophecy, after the [[..."</p>
<hr />
<div>=Arda Healed=<br />
{{quote|I go now to the halls of waiting to sit beside my fathers, until the world is renewed.|[[Thorin]]<ref>{{H|18}}</ref>}}<br />
According to a prophecy, after the [[Final Battle]], a [[Second Music of the Ainur]] will be sung, forming a new world, called Arda Unmarred or Arda Healed. [[Men]] (it is specifically stated in the ''[[Ainulindalë]]'' that Elves will not be involved) will sing with the Ainur in this Second Music.</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arda_Unmarred&diff=328944
Arda Unmarred
2021-03-11T17:25:39Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* See also */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Stub}}<br />
{{quote|For nothing is evil in the beginning. Even Sauron was not so.|[[Elrond]]<ref>{{FR|Council}}</ref>}}<br />
'''Arda Unmarred''' ([[Valarin|Val]]. '''''Aþāraphelūn Amanaišal''''',<ref>{{WJ|AD1}}</ref> [[Quenya|Q]]. '''''Arda Alahasta''''' or '''''Arda Envinyanta''''' "Healed") is a concept in [[Elves|Elvish]] religion and philosophy. It refers to [[Arda]] (the world) as it existed in a perfect state following its creation, as opposed to '''[[Arda Marred]]''', the flawed world as it currently exists. Arda Unmarred was a world not yet tainted by the evil of [[Morgoth]]. This reflects the original intention of the creator, [[Eru Ilúvatar]], and his servants the [[Ainur]].<br />
<br />
The Elves lament the spiritual and physical corruption of Arda. They live in [[Estel (philosophical concept)|hope]] that one day this damage will be undone and the world will be purged of all evil, restoring it to a paradise state.<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[Spring of Arda]].<br />
* [[The End]].<br />
* [[Arda healed]].<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Concepts]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Arda_Unmarred&diff=328943
Arda Unmarred
2021-03-11T17:25:12Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Arda Healed */ I am moving this info to a new page titled Arda healed.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Stub}}<br />
{{quote|For nothing is evil in the beginning. Even Sauron was not so.|[[Elrond]]<ref>{{FR|Council}}</ref>}}<br />
'''Arda Unmarred''' ([[Valarin|Val]]. '''''Aþāraphelūn Amanaišal''''',<ref>{{WJ|AD1}}</ref> [[Quenya|Q]]. '''''Arda Alahasta''''' or '''''Arda Envinyanta''''' "Healed") is a concept in [[Elves|Elvish]] religion and philosophy. It refers to [[Arda]] (the world) as it existed in a perfect state following its creation, as opposed to '''[[Arda Marred]]''', the flawed world as it currently exists. Arda Unmarred was a world not yet tainted by the evil of [[Morgoth]]. This reflects the original intention of the creator, [[Eru Ilúvatar]], and his servants the [[Ainur]].<br />
<br />
The Elves lament the spiritual and physical corruption of Arda. They live in [[Estel (philosophical concept)|hope]] that one day this damage will be undone and the world will be purged of all evil, restoring it to a paradise state.<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[Spring of Arda]]<br />
*[[The End]]<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Concepts]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=328942
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-11T17:18:15Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=328941
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-11T17:18:01Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
* [[One-Handed]] to [[Beren]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=One-handed&diff=328940
One-handed
2021-03-11T17:17:17Z
<p>Erónèhire: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:Ted Nasmith - Lúthien Tends Beren's Wound.jpg|right|thumb|200px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Lúthien Tends Beren's Wound'']]<br />
<br />
'''One-handed''' was a title and surname given to [[Beren]] son of [[Barahir]], an English translation of [[Sindarin]] ''Erchamion''<sup>1</sup> and [[Quenya]] ''Erkambo''. It derives from his encounter with the great wolf [[Carcharoth]] before the gates of [[Angband]]. Beren and [[Lúthien]] had recovered one of the [[Silmarils]] from [[Iron Crown|Morgoth's Crown]], and were escaping with the Jewel when Carcharoth barred their way. Beren held up the holy Jewel in the hope of cowing the wolf, but instead Carcharoth took his right hand, still clasping the Silmaril. Because it was blessed by [[Varda]] herself, the Silmaril seared the innards of the creature of Morgoth, and it fled in agony. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, Beren's wound brought him close to death, but [[Thorondor]] and his [[Eagles]] plucked Beren and Lúthien out of danger and away to safety. The lost Silmaril would eventually be recovered in the [[Hunting of the Wolf]], but in tales Beren was known ever afterwards as Beren One-hand.<ref>{{S|Beren}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
# It appeared as such in the published ''[[The Silmarillion|Silmarillion]]'', although forms Erchammon and Erchamon are also found. <br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category: Epithets]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=One-hand&diff=328939
One-hand
2021-03-11T17:16:58Z
<p>Erónèhire: moved One-hand to One-handed: To comply with the article of Beren.</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[One-handed]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=One-handed&diff=328938
One-handed
2021-03-11T17:16:58Z
<p>Erónèhire: moved One-hand to One-handed: To comply with the article of Beren.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:Ted Nasmith - Lúthien Tends Beren's Wound.jpg|right|thumb|200px|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Lúthien Tends Beren's Wound'']]<br />
<br />
'''One-hand''' was a title and surname given to [[Beren]] son of [[Barahir]], an English translation of [[Sindarin]] ''Erchamion''<sup>1</sup> and [[Quenya]] ''Erkambo''. It derives from his encounter with the great wolf [[Carcharoth]] before the gates of [[Angband]]. Beren and [[Lúthien]] had recovered one of the [[Silmarils]] from [[Iron Crown|Morgoth's Crown]], and were escaping with the Jewel when Carcharoth barred their way. Beren held up the holy Jewel in the hope of cowing the wolf, but instead Carcharoth took his right hand, still clasping the Silmaril. Because it was blessed by [[Varda]] herself, the Silmaril seared the innards of the creature of Morgoth, and it fled in agony. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, Beren's wound brought him close to death, but [[Thorondor]] and his [[Eagles]] plucked Beren and Lúthien out of danger and away to safety. The lost Silmaril would eventually be recovered in the [[Hunting of the Wolf]], but in tales Beren was known ever afterwards as Beren One-hand.<ref>{{S|Beren}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
# It appeared as such in the published ''[[The Silmarillion|Silmarillion]]'', although forms Erchammon and Erchamon are also found. <br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category: Epithets]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Beren&diff=328937
Beren
2021-03-11T17:13:35Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Quest for the Silmaril */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Disambig-more|Beren|[[Beren (disambiguation)]]}}<br />
{{cleanup}}<br />
{{Edain infobox<br />
| name=Beren<br />
| image=[[Image:Tuuliky - Beren.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Beren" by [[:Category:Images by Tuuliky|Tuuliky]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=''[[Camlost]]'', ''Erchamion'' ([[Sindarin|S]])<br />
| titles=[[Lord of Ladros]]<br/>Lord of [[Tol Galen]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Dorthonion]]; [[Ossiriand]]<br />
| affiliation=[[Quest for the Silmaril]]<br />
| language=[[Sindarin]], [[Taliska]]<br />
| birth={{FA|432}}<br />
| birthlocation=[[Dorthonion]]<br />
| rule=<br />
| death={{FA|466}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Hunting of the Wolf]]<br/>Returned to life, final death: {{FA|503}} (aged 71)<br/>[[Dor Firn-i-Guinar]]<br />
| age=34<br />
| notablefor=retrieving a [[Silmaril]] from [[Iron Crown|Morgoth's crown]]<br />
| house=[[House of Bëor]]<br />
| parentage=[[Barahir]] and [[Emeldir]]<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=[[Lúthien]]<br />
| children=[[Dior]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=Taller than most of his House<ref name=n46>{{PM|XNotes}}, note 46</ref><br />
| hair=Golden brown<ref name=n46/><br />
| eyes=Grey<ref name=n46/><br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=Spear and [[Angrist]]; [[Dagmor]] (in the [[Lays of Beleriand]])<ref>{{HM|LB}}; last version of the [[Lay of Leithian]] p. 344 cf. p.350 line 512 </ref><br />
| steed=[[Huan]]<br/>Unnamed horse (from [[Curufin]])<br />
}}<br />
'''Beren the Renowned''' was a [[Men|Man]] of [[Middle-earth]], a hero whose romance with the [[Elves|Elf]] [[Lúthien]] was one of the great stories of the [[Elder Days]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Life in Dorthonion===<br />
[[Image:J.R.R. Tolkien - Beren Heraldic Device.png|thumb|left|70px|Beren's heraldic device by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]]]<br />
Beren was the son of [[Barahir]] and [[Emeldir]] and was named after [[Beren (son of Belemir)|Beren, his maternal grandfather]]. He was a Man of the royal [[House of Bëor]] of [[Dorthonion]] for his father was most likely the last Chieftain of the House of Bëor. The [[Dagor Bragollach]] ("Battle of Sudden Flame") befell during his youth, bringing about the ruin of his land. The young Beren lived with his father and ten loyal followers in the highlands of Dorthonion, and the twelve of them performed many acts of bravery, to the great frustration of [[Morgoth]], the Dark Lord of [[Angband]]. After the betrayal and death of the [[Barahir's Outlaw Band|Outlaws of Dorthonion]] due to the treachery of [[Gorlim the Unhappy]], Beren swore an oath to avenge his father, "but wept not, for his heart was ice". He recovered the [[Ring of Barahir]] from the [[Orcs]], and lived on as an outlaw, whose feats of daring were renown throughout the free world. Eventually, he was forced to abandon the land of his birth and the grave of his father. He crossed into [[Doriath]], where he saw and fell in love with Lúthien, princess of the [[Sindar]] and daughter of [[Thingol]] and [[Melian]], when he saw her dancing.<br />
<br />
===Quest for the Silmaril===<br />
[[File:Peter Xavier Price - Beren leaves Menegroth.jpg|thumb|left|''Beren leaves Menegroth'' by [[Peter Xavier Price]]]]<br />
{{Main|Quest for the Silmaril}}<br />
Thingol refused to give Lúthien's hand in marriage, as Beren was a mortal. He charged Beren that he would allow the marriage to take place only if he brought back a [[Silmaril]] from the [[Iron Crown]] of Morgoth. The task was intended to be impossible, but Beren was determined. He set out on this impossible quest with the aid of [[Finrod|Finrod Felagund]] of [[Nargothrond]], but was soon captured by [[Sauron]] and imprisoned in [[Tol-in-Gaurhoth]]. Lúthien, along with [[Huan]] the great hound, eventually came to their rescue. <br />
[[Image:Ted_Nasmith_-_Transformed.jpg|thumb|''Transformed'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]<br />
Using Lúthien's powers to place Morgoth's court into a deep sleep, they were able to enter Angband where Beren cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's iron crown. However, as they escaped from Angband, the great wolf [[Carcharoth]], whom Morgoth had personally bred, awoke. Beren held out the Silmaril, hoping that its radiance would avert the beast, but he was mistaken. Carcharoth bit off his hand, swallowing it along with the Silmaril, and proceeded to run rampant through Doriath. Thus Beren was called '''''Erchamion''''', "[[One-handed]]". Lúthien and the unconscious Beren were rescued by the Eagles of [[Manwë]]. After coming back to Thingol's court, both told him the story of their quest and how Beren had fulfilled Thingol's demand, as he had one Silmaril in his hand. Thus, Thingol accepted that Beren married his daughter, being this the first [[Unions of Elves and Men|union of Elves and Men]].<br />
Beren participated in the hunting of Carcharoth, where the beast was slain and the Silmaril recovered; the quest was accomplished, but in the process Beren was mortally wounded.<br />
<br />
Unable to deal with the death of her beloved, Lúthien, overcome with grief, laid down and died. Her soul went to the [[Halls of Mandos]], where she managed to move [[Mandos]] so that he granted her and Beren another life. Both she and Beren were restored to life, but both of them would die the death of Men, and go beyond the walls of [[Arda]] to a place unknown.<br />
<br />
===Aftermath===<br />
{{Quote|(...) and whether the second span of his life was brief or long is not known to Elves or Men|Draft to ''[[Quenta Silmarillion (Lost Road)|Quenta Silmarillion]]''}}<br />
Thus Beren and Lúthien lived again, and dwelt on [[Tol Galen]] in the middle of the [[Adurant|River Adurant]] in [[Ossiriand]]. There they stayed apart from other mortals. Lúthien bore Beren a son, named [[Dior]], Thingol's heir. He was considered to be one of the fairest beings to ever live, for in him flowed the blood of Men, the blood of Elves, and the blood of the [[Ainur]]. Through his descendants, the blood of Beren and of Lúthien was preserved among the [[Eldar]] and the [[Edain]].<br />
[[File:Turner Mohan - Beren and Luthien.jpg|thumb|''Beren and Luthien'' by [[:Category:Images by Turner Mohan|Turner Mohan]]]]<br />
Beren was involved with the events of the [[First Age]] only one further time. After the murder of Thingol, [[Mablung]] was sent by Melian to warn Beren. He gathered the [[Green-elves]], and with the aid of some [[Ents]]<ref>{{L|248}}</ref> they waylaid a group of the [[Dwarves of Nogrod]] who had [[Battle of the Thousand Caves|destroyed]] Doriath and stolen its treasures. They ambushed the Dwarves and vanquished them in the [[Battle of Sarn Athrad]]. Because the [[Naugladur|Lord of Nogrod]] cursed the treasure, Beren threw it in the river [[Ascar]], but salvaged the [[Nauglamir]] which he brought to his wife. Their son Dior left to restore and rule [[Menegroth]].<ref name=doriath>{{S|Doriath}}</ref> <br />
<br />
Beren and Lúthien died together on Tol Galen. Among the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] the final death of Beren and Lúthien is accounted in {{FA|503}}, for in the Autumn of that year Dior received the Silmaril in Doriath, and it was taken as a sign of his parents' death. In truth the date of their death is unknown.<ref name=doriath/><ref>{{LR|Quenta}}, p. 306</ref><br />
<br />
==Description==<br />
Beren had golden-brown hair and grey eyes. He was taller than most of his kinsmen, but (according to the trait of his House) he was broad-shouldered, and his limbs were very strong.<ref name=n46/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
{{Pronounce|Beren Erchamion.mp3|Ardamir}}<br />
''Beren'' is glossed as "bold" in [[Noldorin]] of ''[[The Etymologies]]''.<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, root "[[BER]]"</ref><br />
<br />
==Other names==<br />
His epithet '''''Erchamion''''' means "one-handed".<ref>{{HM|WJ}}, pp. 51, 231</ref> It has been suggested that '''''Camlost''''' means "empty-handed". Both epithets contain [[Sindarin]] ''cam'' ("hand").<ref>{{S|Elements}}, entry ''cam''</ref> <br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | |BRE| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |BRE=[[Bregor]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|^|-|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |BGL| | | |BAR|y|EME| | | | | | | | |BGL=[[Bregolas]]|BAR=[[Barahir]]|EME=[[Emeldir]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | |BAR| |BEL| | | |BER|y|LUT| | | | | | |BAR=[[Baragund]]|BEL=[[Belegund]]|BER='''BEREN'''|LUT=[[Lúthien]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | |!| | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | |HUR|y|MOR| |RIA|y|HUO| |DIO|y|NIM| | | | |HUR=[[Húrin]]|MOR=[[Morwen]]|RIA=[[Rían]]|HUO=[[Huor]]|DIO=[[Dior]]|NIM=[[Nimloth of Doriath|Nimloth]]}}<br />
{{familytree | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;|TUR| |LAL| |NIE| |TUO|y|IDR| | |!| | | | | | | |TUR=[[Túrin]]|LAL=[[Lalaith]]|NIE=[[Nienor]]|TUO=[[Tuor]]|IDR=[[Idril]]}}<br />
{{familytree | |L|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|J| | | | | |!| | | |,|-|^|-|v|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |EAR|y|ELW| |ELD| |ELN|EAR=[[Eärendil]]|ELW=[[Elwing]]|ELD=[[Eluréd]]|ELN=[[Elurín]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |ELS| | | | | |ELD|y|CEL| | | | |ELS=[[Elros]]|ELD=[[Elrond]]|CEL=[[Celebrían]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|^|-|-|.| | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | |KON| |LOA| | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |KON=[[King of Númenor|Kings of Númenor]]|LOA= [[Lords of Andúnië]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELE| | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |ELE= [[Elendil]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | |KOG|y|KOA| | | | |!| | | | | | | |KOG= [[Kings of Gondor]]|KOA= [[Kings of Arnor]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |COD| | | | | | |!| | |COD=[[Chieftains of the Dúnedain|Chieftains of]]<br/>[[Chieftains of the Dúnedain|the Dúnedain]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ARA|y|ARW| |ELL| |ELR| | |ARA= [[Aragorn|Aragorn II]]|ARW= [[Arwen]]|ELL= [[Elladan]]|ELR= [[Elrohir]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |ELD| |DTR| | | | | | | | | | |ELD= [[Eldarion]]|DTR=Daughters}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree |boxstyle=white-space:;background-color:#FFFFFF;| | | | | | | | | | | | |KRK| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |KRK= Kings of the<br/>[[Reunited Kingdom]]}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Other versions of the legendarium==<br />
In the first pencilled draft of the story of the Beren and Lúthien, Beren was a mortal Man; but when Tolkien erased it and wrote the "[[Tale of Tinúviel]]" of the ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]'', he became an Elf: one of the [[Gnomes]] of [[Dor-lómin]], the son of [[Egnor]] the Forester. The displeasure of King [[Tinwelint]] against him was because the [[Dark Elves]] of [[Artanor]] considered those Elves treacherous.<ref>{{BL|Introduction}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Inspiration==<br />
The story of Beren and Lúthien, though mentioned only briefly in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', was a central part of the [[Legendarium]]. Tolkien once referred to it as "the kernel of the mythology".<ref>{{L|165}}</ref> He went on to say that it "arose from a small woodland glade filled with 'hemlocks'", which he visited while serving in the Humber Garrison in 1918 (during [[World War I]]). <br />
<br />
Tolkien seemed to be somehow connected to this character, and parallels can be drawn with his relationship with [[Edith Tolkien|Edith Bratt]]. Furthermore it is possible that ''Beren'' (meaning 'brave') is a reference to the original meaning of his Germanic surname (Toll kühn) of similar meaning. It is said that, like the story of Lúthien dancing in the woods before Beren, that one day while Tolkien and his wife were on a picnic in the woods she danced for him, thus creating another parallel to Beren and Luthien. <br />
<br />
Tolkien was buried in [[Wolvercote Cemetery]] (North [[Oxford]]) and this name appears on the stone:<br />
<br />
:JOHN RONALD REUEL TOLKIEN Beren 1892 – 1973<br />
<br />
The name of Lúthien also appears on the stone:<br />
<br />
:EDITH MARY TOLKIEN Lúthien 1889 – 1971<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=edain<br />
| house=[[House of Bëor]]<br />
| born={{FA|432}}<br />
| died={{FA|466}}; final death: {{FA|503}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Barahir]]<br />
| list=8th Head of the [[House of Bëor]]<br />
| dates={{FA|460}} – {{FA|503|n}}<br />
| next=House of Bëor ceased to exist<br />
| nvac=None<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
{{Outlaws}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Book of Lost Tales]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:Edain]]<br />
[[Category:First Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:Gnomish names]]<br />
[[Category:House of Bëor]]<br />
[[Category:Noldorin names]]<br />
[[Category:Sindarin names]]<br />
[[de:Beren Erchamion]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:personnages:hommes:1a:peuple_de_beor:beren]]<br />
[[fi:Beren]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=328936
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-11T17:11:28Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=328935
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-11T17:11:13Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
* [[Folco Burrowes]] to [[Burrows (Family)]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Burrows_family&diff=328934
Burrows family
2021-03-11T17:10:02Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* History */</p>
<hr />
<div>The '''Burrows Family''' was an important [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] family of [[the Shire]].<br />
<br />
The correct plural of the name is "Burrowses".<ref>{{FR|I1}}</ref><br />
<br />
==History==<br />
There was a family connection between the Burrowses and the [[Baggins Family|Bagginses]]: Bilbo's distant cousin [[Peony Baggins]] was married to [[Milo Burrows]], and together they had four children.<ref name="Baggins"/><br />
<br />
The company [[Messrs Grubb, Grubb and Burrowes]] were responsible in auctioneering Bilbo's belongins.<ref>{{H|Stage}}</ref><ref group=note>This title represents a different spelling of the name "Burrows", but it is intended to be the same. See {{RS|1Ii}}</ref>.<br />
<br />
Several members were present at [[Bilbo Baggins]]'s famous [[Bilbo's Farewell Party|Farewell Party]].<ref name="Baggins">{{App|Baggins}}</ref><br />
<br />
[[Folco Burrowes]] was Frodo's lawyer.<br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
Showing the prominent members of the Burrows clan.<ref name="Baggins"/><ref>{{App|Boffin}}</ref><ref>{{App|Brandybuck}}</ref> The figures after the names are those of birth. A dashed line indicates marriage. Names in ''italics'' signify those who attended [[Bilbo's Farewell Party]] on [[22 September]] {{SR|1401}}.<br />
<br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | |Q|y|R| | Q=[[Druda Burrows]]|R=[[Rollo Boffin]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | | |!| }}<br />
{{familytree | |R|y|S| | |Q| | | | | | Q=various descendants|R=[[Rufus Burrows]]|S=[[Asphodel Brandybuck]]}}<br />
{{familytree | | | | |!| | | | | | | | }}<br />
{{familytree | | | |M|y|P| | | | | | | | M=''[[Milo Burrows]]''<br/><small>''1347''</small>|P=''[[Peony Baggins]]''}}<br />
{{familytree | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| }}<br />
{{familytree | |Q| |B| |R| |S| | | | | Q=''[[Mosco Burrows]]''<br/><small>''1387''</small>|B=''[[Moro Burrows]]''<br/><small>''1391''</small>|R=''[[Myrtle Burrows]]''<br/><small>''1393''</small>|S=[[Minto Burrows]]<br/><small>''1396''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
{{references|note}}<br />
[[Category:Hobbit Families]]<br />
[[Category:Burrowes]]<br />
[[Category:Burrows]]<br />
[[de:Lochner]]<br />
[[fi:Onkaloinen]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Possible_inconsistencies_in_the_legendarium&diff=328919
Possible inconsistencies in the legendarium
2021-03-11T04:42:23Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Possession of the Nine Rings */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]] paid a great deal of attention to detail in his [[Secondary world]] to preserve a realistic consistency. <br />
However his work has been admired, studied and analyzed by "[[Tolkienist]]s" over the years in various aspects and levels; unavoidably, some more or less obvious '''inconsistencies seem to have slipped the author's attention'''. Most are revealed after more than one reading of the book and possibly thorough study. Regarding the inconsistencies, his son noted the<br />
{{quote|...credibility that my father was so anxious to maintain. Of course if he had noticed this inconsistency himself or had it pointed out to him he would have altered it without a second thought.|[[Christopher Tolkien]]'s letter to [[Wayne G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull]].<ref name=comp>{{HM|RC}}</ref>{{rp|p. xliv}}}}<br />
He also noted that:<br />
{{quote|However much my father desired to achieve consistency at every level of his work, from capital letters to the dates of dynasties, he was bound to fail. [...] His life was a perpetual battle against time (& tiredness) [...] But he 'niggled' on a grand and noble conception, & indeed its coherence in fine detail is a part of its power.|[[Christopher Tolkien]]'s letter to [[Wayne G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull]].<ref name=comp/>{{rp|p. xliii}}}}<br />
<br />
Fans of Tolkien usually accept that in any work there are usually plot holes. In a larger, far more detailed and realistic book we expect fewer (if any) plot holes, when in reality there is a far greater chance because of its complexity.<br />
<br />
Any inconsistency can be blamed on the fictitious Tolkien who adapted ancient sources such as the Red Book or on the characters who wrote and compiled those sources. Tolkien himself mentioned in Appendix D that he might have made many errors on the calendar while "translating" the "ancient sources", a comment written as a fail-safe for any narrative mistakes the author might have made, and mentioned in Appendix F ("Of the Elves") that Frodo had erred in thinking the dialect of Sindarin spoken by the elves of Lórien was Silvan Elvish.<ref>{{FR|II6}}. A footnote directs the reader to the correction in the appendix.</ref><br />
<br />
Such explanations attributing the mistakes to the "translator Tolkien" or the "original sources" are easy and unenlightening. Therefore many fans prefer to explain those inconsistencies with some internal explanation. The explanations below are of this type. For example, at least some of the logical mistakes can be attributed to the characters themselves who said a contradicting phrase, since none of them is supposed to have the "omniscience" of the author. Contradictions of this type are grouped as "character mistakes". Others are grouped as "factual mistakes", of which mistakes in chronology are a subgroup.<br />
<br />
=Character mistakes=<br />
==The Eldest==<br />
Both [[Tom Bombadil]] and [[Treebeard]] are referred to as the [[eldest]] being in [[Middle-earth]]. Tom says that about himself,<ref>{{FR|I7}}, "Eldest, that's what I am.... Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn." </ref> and [[Elrond]] mentions that the Elves knew Tom as "oldest and fatherless".<ref name="CofE">{{FR|II2}}</ref> However, [[Gandalf]] tells [[Théoden]] that Treebeard is "the oldest of all living things",<ref name="Isengard">{{TT|III8}}</ref> and Celeborn addresses Treebeard as "Eldest".<ref>{{HM|RK}}, "[[Many Partings]]"</ref><br />
;Explanation: Maybe Tom is not "alive" as Treebeard is<ref>Tom Shippey, ''The Road to Middle-earth: Revised and Expanded Edition'', p. 107</ref> (though he seems to be). On this subject, Gandalf, [[Saruman]], and [[Sauron]] have ''existed'' far longer than Treebeard, as they are [[Maiar|Maia]], but they haven't been ''alive'' (embodied physically) as long.<br />
<br />
==Giving up a Ring of Power==<br />
Gandalf says, "'A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. ''It'' may slip off treacherously, but its keeper never abandons it. At most he plays with the idea of handing it on to some one else's care&mdash;and that only at an early stage, when it first begins to grip. But as far as I know Bilbo alone in history has gone beyond playing, and really done it.'"<ref name="Shadow">{{FR|I2}}</ref> However, [[Narya|Gandalf's own ring]] was given to him freely by [[Círdan]].<ref name="AppThird">{{App|TA}}</ref> Also, the dwarves of [[Durin's Folk]] who held their Ring typically "surrendered" it when near death, and in particular [[Thrór]] gave it to his son [[Thráin II]],<ref name="AppADurin"/> as Gandalf says at the Council of Elrond.<ref name="CofE"/><br />
;Explanation: Perhaps Gandalf meant only the Rings that [[Sauron]] had had a hand in making, which might be the only ones that "grip." Gandalf's ring is one of the [[Three Rings|Three]], which Sauron didn't touch. Durin's Folk believed that they had received their Ring directly from the [[Elven-Smiths]], though Sauron did help to make it. Further, it is noted in the Appendices that the Rings could influence Dwarves to a much lesser extent than Men, specifically "the only power over [Dwarves] that the Rings wielded was to inflame their hearts with a greed of gold and precious things."<ref>{{App|A3}}</ref> Gandalf may have been speaking implicitly only of Men, considering the context of the conversation and his audience.<br />
<br />
==Sam's spying==<br />
[[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]] tells [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] that as a result of [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]]'s eavesdropping, he and [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] "know most of what Gandalf has told you about the [[The One Ring|Ring]]."<ref name=ACU>{{FR|I5}}</ref> Most of what Gandalf told Frodo was in one long conversation, at the end of which Gandalf caught Sam.<ref name="Shadow"/> This contradicts Merry's statement that after Sam was caught, he "seemed to regard himself as on parole, and dried up."<ref name=ACU/><br />
;Explanation: Maybe Sam's information was what he learned before he was caught, though that's not what Merry says.<br />
<br />
==A choice of dangers==<br />
[[Aragorn]] tells the hobbits, as they prepare to leave [[Bree]], "After [[Weathertop]] our journey will become more difficult, and we shall have to choose between various dangers."<ref name=Strider/> The ridges they have to climb after Weathertop may be more difficult than the [[Midgewater Marshes]], but they encounter no dangers on the route Aragorn chooses, and Aragorn doesn't warn the hobbits of any dangers, except the chance that the Nazgûl will find them as they cross the [[Last Bridge]].<ref name="Flight">{{FR|I12}}</ref><br />
;Explanation: Not all risked dangers actually materialize, and Aragorn does cite two other possible courses that have their own possible hazards. One is going north through the [[Ettenmoors|Ettendales]] instead of crossing the [[Ford of Bruinen]], but in addition to the danger of [[trolls]], that route would take too long and the Company could run out of food. The other is finding the Ford without following the Road, but Aragorn regards that as impossible.<ref>{{FR|I12}}, "'We cannot hope to find a path through these hills. Whatever danger may beset it, the Road is our only way to the Ford.'"</ref> In his estimation, the Road was clearly the path most likely to get the Company to Rivendell safely, regardless of whether the alternatives were truly impossible or merely less practical than the best alternative.<br />
<br />
==Aragorn's knowledge==<br />
Aragorn tells the hobbits in Bree, "I know all the lands between [[the Shire]] and the [[Misty Mountains]], for I have wandered over them for many years."<ref name="Strider"/> But later, speaking of the Ettendales, he says, "That is troll-country, and little known to me," and "I do not know the way" to Rivendell by detouring through them.<ref name="Flight"/> The Ettendales or Ettenmoors are on a line between the Shire and the northern part of the Misty Mountains.<br />
;Explanation: If we take Aragorn's line "wandered over them" literally, we can accept that Aragorn has also wandered over the Ettendales. Of course that doesn't necessarily means that Aragorn should know ''everything'' about those lands, or even know ''all'' ways (e.g., to Rivendell) through them. He says that he knows those lands "little."<br />
<br />
==Building Barad-dûr==<br />
Elrond says at his council that the foundations of [[Barad-dûr]] were made with the One Ring,<ref>{{FR|II2}}, "The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were not removed; for they were made with the power of the Ring, and while it remains they will endure.</ref> which is consistent with its destruction when the Ring is destroyed. However, according to the Tale of Years, Sauron began building Barad-dûr in about S.A. 1000 and forged the Ring in about S.A. 1600.<ref>https://www.quora.com/What-inconsistencies-if-any-appear-in-the-Hobbit-Lord-of-the-Rings-and-the-Silmarillion</ref><br />
;Explanation: Maybe Sauron ordered his Orcs to begin gathering materials and preparing the land for construction in S.A. 1000, and only commenced with building once he forged the Ring in S.A. 1600. Six hundred years is a long time, but the Barad-dûr was a monumental structure that would have required an unprecedented amount of stone, iron, and other materials to erect. Or maybe the foundations were built before the making of the Ring, but lacking a last piece, or some power of will that the Ring provided.<br />
<br />
==Heirlooms of Arnor==<br />
At the Council of Elrond, Aragorn says of [[Narsil]], the Sword of Elendil, "It has been treasured by his heirs when '''all other heirlooms were lost'''" (emphasis added).<ref name="CofE"/> However, Appendix A lists other heirlooms that were kept with it: "...there [at [[Rivendell]]] also were kept the heirlooms of their house: the [[Ring of Barahir]], the shards of Narsil, the [[star of Elendil]], and the [[sceptre of Annúminas]]."<ref name="AppEriador">{{App|Eriador}}</ref><br />
;Explanation: The Ring of Barahir was briefly lost to the Dúnedain when Arvedui bartered it to the Lossoth for supplies. After the death of Arvedui, Elrond kept the Sceptre (and presumably the second Elendilmir, though it is not explicitly mentioned) and did not hand it over to any of the Chieftains until Aragorn II became King of the Reunited Kingdom, so these could have been considered "lost" to Isildur's heirs. Thus, there was a period after the death of Arvedui during which only the Shards of Narsil were in the direct possession of the Chieftains.<br />
<br />
==Possession of the [[Nine Rings]]==<br />
In ''[[The Council of Elrond]]'' [[Gandalf]] says that the [[Nazgûl]] kept their Rings by saying "The Nine the Nazgûl keep"<ref name="CofE"/>. However in most other references, it is mentioned that Sauron had taken them.<ref>{{FR|I2}}, "the Nine [Sauron] has gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed."</ref><ref>{{FR|II7}}, "You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine."</ref> Furthermore, Frodo doesn't see any Rings on them on [[Weathertop]], and it is believed that if they did wear the Rings, they would have been fully [[Unseen|invisible]] (including their cloaks).<ref>http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q0-InvRiders</ref><br />
The line in the Council of Elrond represents Tolkien's earlier intention that the Nazgûl should still be wearing their Rings, but he later changed his mind and simply missed revising that sentence.<br />
;Explanation: The phrase can be also interpreted as "The Nine ''keep'' the Nazgûl ''in Sauron’s thrall''," though this would be an awkward construction. The doings of Sauron and the Nazgûl were mostly unknown to the Council, so it is likely that Gandalf did not actually know the physical disposition of the Rings and was merely alluding to the indelible association between the Nine Rings and the Nine Nazgûl. Moreover, as far as the Council was concerned, the situation was equivalent whether the Nine Rings were on Sauron's fingers or on those of his slaves, so the lack of precision was immaterial whatever the truth of the matter. It is also possible that they left their rings in Sauron's possession rather than wearing them and being invisible. Being invisible would have obvious difficulties in interacting with other beings.<br />
<br />
==Feeling the ''mithril'' coat==<br />
The [[Mithril#The_Mithril_Coat|''mithril'']] coat that Bilbo gives Frodo is "almost as supple as linen",<ref name="Ring">{{FR|II3}}</ref> and Aragorn carries Frodo in Moria (after the orc chieftain spears Frodo) without noticing the coat.<ref>{{FR|II5}}</ref> However, when Bilbo slaps Frodo on the back after giving him the coat, he says, "Ow!... You are too hard now to slap!"<ref name="Ring"/><br />
;Explanation: Perhaps Bilbo is joking.<br />
<br />
:Aragorn would not likely notice the texture of Frodo's clothing while running from orcs, trolls, and a balrog; he would be focused on other things.<br />
<br />
==Galadriel's mind-reading==<br />
[[Galadriel]] tells Frodo and Sam that she knows Sauron's thoughts that concern the Elves.<ref name="Mirror">{{FR|II7}}</ref> It seems strange that they don't ask her whether she has any information they might find useful and she doesn't offer them any. Also, she doesn't seem to have known about [[Saruman]]'s betrayal some nineteen years earlier, though the defection of a member of the [[White Council]] might be thought to concern the Elves. At least, she didn't warn Gandalf in the messages he got from Lórien after reading the [[Scroll of Isildur]], the year before he trustingly entered [[Orthanc]].<ref name="CofE"/> (Also, when Aragorn was serving in Gondor under the name [[Thorongil]], he "often warned [[Ecthelion II|Ecthelion]] not to put trust in Saruman".<ref>{{HM|AA}}</ref> It's strange that he knew not to trust Saruman but Gandalf didn't.)<br />
;Explanation: Conceivably Galadriel gained the ability to read Sauron's mind sometime after the messages went to Gandalf.<br />
<br />
==Galadriel's role==<br />
Galadriel tells the Fellowship, "I will not give you counsel, saying do this, or do that. For not in doing or contriving, or in choosing between this course and another, can I avail; but only in knowing what was and is, and in part also what shall be."<ref>{{FR|I6}}</ref> Later she tells Frodo, "I do not counsel you one way or the other. I am not a counsellor."<ref name="Mirror"/> However, the rhyme she sends Aragorn advises a specific course: the [[Grey Company]] should come out of [[Rivendell]], and Aragorn should take the [[Paths of the Dead]].<ref>{{TT|III5}}</ref> Likewise [[Legolas]] and [[Gimli]] conclude that Galadriel sent the message to the Grey Company telling them to join Aragorn in [[Rohan]]; this seems to be "contriving" and "choosing between one course and another". Incidentally, it is odd that the Grey Company got this message without knowing who it was from.<ref>{{HM|RK}}, "[[The Passing of the Grey Company]]"</ref><br />
;Explanation: One could imagine that someone else (Celeborn?) made the decisions and Galadriel only sent the messages; Legolas and Gimli may have erred in thinking she was the source. Alternatively, it is conceivable that Galadriel's words to the Fellowship were calculated to have a desired impact, even though at face value they seemed to be of no use. <br />
<br />
==Tales of hobbits==<br />
Pippin tells [[Théoden]], "I have wandered in many lands, since I left my home, and never till now have I found people that knew any story concerning hobbits."<ref name="Isengard"/> But hobbits live in [[Bree]], [[Tom Bombadil]] knows many stories about hobbits, one would think the [[Rangers of the North|Rangers]] (who guard [[the Shire]] and Bree) and the Elves of Rivendell (where Bilbo has been living) would know some, and the Elves of Lórien have at least heard of hobbits.<ref>{{FR|II6}}, "We had not heard of&mdash;hobbits, of halflings, for many a long year...."</ref><br />
;Explanation: Pippin has just woken up from a nap, after a lunch that included wine, and is talking to a king for the first time in his life; he may not be thinking clearly.<br />
<br />
==Crossing Rohan inconspicuously==<br />
As they ride away from Isengard, Gandalf tells Merry that the Lidless Eye will be looking toward Rohan, so "He [Théoden] will ride from there [Helm's Deep] to Dunharrow by paths among the hills. From now on no more than two or three together are to go openly over the land, by day or night, when it can be avoided."<ref>{{TT|III11}}</ref> However, later that night, after Pippin looks into the ''palantír'' and Gandalf says they must move from the spot, Théoden says he will go in a group of twelve, and Gandalf agrees.<ref>{{TT|III11}}, "'I will keep Éomer and ten Riders,' said the king. 'They shall ride with me at early day. The rest may go with Aragorn and ride as soon as they have a mind.' 'As you will,' said Gandalf."</ref> Then when the trip to Helm's Deep starts, the number has increased to twenty-six, and Aragorn goes with Théoden.<ref>{{RK|V2}}, "Soon all were ready to depart: twenty-four horses, with Gimli behind Legolas, and Merry in front of Aragorn."</ref> The trip from Helm's Deep to Dunharrow has a group of five hundred.<ref>{{RK|V2}}, "A thousand spears had indeed already ridden away at night, but still there would be some five hundred more to go with the king."</ref> They do ride through the hills, as Gandalf had said. "Most of the time" they're in a group bigger than three.<ref>{{RK|V3}}, "Sometimes where the way was broader he [Merry] had ridden at the king's side, not noticing that many of the Riders smiled to see the two together: the hobbit on his little shaggy grey pony, and the Lord of Rohan on his great white horse. [...] But most of the time, especially on the last day, Merry had ridden by himself just behind the king, saying nothing, and trying to understand the slow sonorous speech of Rohan that he heard the men behind him using."</ref><br />
;Explanation: Maybe there was some reason, not narrated, that Gandalf changed his mind about the need for small groups (and Théoden changed his about his companions). Or maybe for most of the journey, riding in big groups couldn't be avoided, though that would make the order pointless.<br />
<br />
==The peril of deep arts==<br />
In connection with the ''palantír'' of Orthanc, Gandalf observes to Pippin, "Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves."<ref name="Palantir">{{TT|III11}}</ref> However, never in ''The Hobbit'' or ''The Lord of the Rings'' does he warn [[Thorin|Thorin]] or the hobbits against using elvish swords, which glow in the presence of orcs, or [[Daggers of Westernesse|daggers from the barrow]], which are especially effective against Ringwraiths. He returns the [[Phial of Galadriel]] to Frodo and [[Gifts of Galadriel|Galadriel's box of earth]] to Sam without any warnings. Also, there is no apparent danger in characters' using other products of elven arts (cloaks, ''[[hithlain]]'' ropes, ''[[lembas]]'').<br />
;Explanation: Maybe the ''palantíri'' are "devices" in a sense in which the other things named are not. <br />
<br />
:Furthermore, it's possible that Gandalf was only attempting to discourage Pippin's curiosity, worrying that it could lead to another dangerous situation like that with the ''palantír''.<br />
<br />
==The eyes in Orthanc==<br />
When Aragorn tells Gimli and Legolas that he's confronted Sauron in the ''palantír'', he says, "To know that I lived and walked the earth was a blow to his heart, I deem; for he knew it not till now. The eyes in Orthanc did not see through the armour of Théoden".<ref>{{RK|V2}}</ref> But Wormtongue knew that Aragorn claimed to be Isildur's heir, as Gandalf points out to Pippin.<ref name=Palantir/> Thus whether Wormtongue recognized Aragorn from Orthanc doesn't matter to Sauron's knowledge of Aragorn's existence. What Aragorn should have deduced was that either Wormtongue never told Saruman about him, or Saruman didn't reveal the knowledge, whether to Sauron through the ''palantír'' or to the Nazgûl who came to demand Saruman's supposed captive hobbit. (The latter is what Gandalf tells Pippin he fears.)<br />
<br />
==[[Mouth of Sauron]] and "Sauron the Great"==<br />
[[Aragorn]] mentions that the name "[[Sauron]]" (meaning "Abominable") is the name used by his enemies, and Sauron himself does not permit it to be pronounced.<ref>{{TT|III1}}</ref> Therefore it would be problematic, if not logically impossible, for the messenger to Dáin to refer to his master as "the Lord Sauron the Great", as Aragorn had heard at the [[Council of Elrond]],<ref>{{FR|II2}}</ref> and for a servant of Sauron to say, "I am the Mouth of Sauron".<ref>{{RK|V10}}</ref><br />
;Explanation: It could be that Aragorn was mistaken, perhaps thinking of the time before Sauron had declared himself. Another possibility is that the "Mouth" used a different name or title, perhaps in the Black Speech, and Frodo or the translator Tolkien "translated" it as Sauron to clarify it for readers. A similar possibility is that despite Aragorn's blanket statement, Sauron sometimes allowed his servants to use the name for such purposes as communicating with others who used it. As many of his enemies only knew his "true" name as Sauron, it would also allow him to keep his true names and aliases hidden from them, as well as allow them to immediately recognize whom his servants were referring to.<br />
<br />
==Hewing Orcs==<br />
At [[Helm's Deep]], battle-thirsty [[Gimli]] complains that he had 'hewn naught but wood since I left Moria' forgetting the fact that he [[Breaking of the Fellowship|fought Orcs]] not long ago.<br />
;Explanation: Hammond and Scull addressed this apparent inconsistency but it wasn't possible to "correct" it for the 50th Anniversary Edition as it would require to rewrite the dialogue.<ref name=comp/>{{rp|p. xliv}} However, it is possible to interpret Gimli as being scornful towards to his latest encounters, deliberately meaning that they were no better than "wood".<br />
<br />
=Factual mistakes=<br />
==[[Doors of Durin]]==<br />
The name ''[[Moria]]'' means "Black Chasm" and was a derogatory description of the place which the [[Dwarves]] did not like much; it was given after [[Durin's Bane]] took over the city and it was overrun by [[Orcs]]. It is therefore a paradox why that name appears on the [[Doors of Durin]] (''Ennyn Durin Aran Moria''), made in the [[Second Age]], and with the consent of the Dwarves.<br />
;Explanation: An "external" explanation is that since the translated [[Norse]] names [[Durin (disambiguation)|Durin]] and [[Narvi]] are seen in the inscription, ''Moria'' may also be a "translated" name.<br />
<br />
==[[Eagles]]==<br />
One of the best-known alleged plot holes is why the Eagles came to carry Frodo and Sam back from [[Mount Doom]] but did not help them to fly [[the One Ring]] there, or at least help them at other points in their journey such as the crossing of the Misty Mountains. It is particularly hard to understand why this idea was not proposed in the [[Council of Elrond]].<br />
;Explanation: This question is discussed in detail in [[Eagles#Flying_the_Ring_to_Mount_Doom|the article on the Eagles]], which gives several explanations.<br />
<br />
:In general the explanations for not flying the Ring to Mount Doom are better than those for the Fellowship's not at least trying to have the Eagles fly them across the Misty Mountains.<br />
<br />
==Distances==<br />
The distances of the Dwarves' travel to [[Rivendell]] in ''[[The Hobbit]]'' seem to have different proportions than those in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. Tolkien tried to reconcile the ''Hobbit'' description with the scale of the ''LotR'' map but couldn't find an appropriate solution.<ref>{{HM|RS}} p. 204</ref><br />
<br />
While Frodo and his companions needed 28 days from [[Hobbiton]] to [[Rivendell]] (10.7 miles/day)<ref name="atlas">[[Karen Wynn Fonstad]], ''[[The Atlas of Middle-earth]]''</ref>, [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] calculated that Bilbo and [[Thorin and Company]] needed 38 days (17.5 miles/day)<ref name="atlas"/>. [[Andreas Möhn|Andreas Moehn]] goes further and supposes that Thorin and Co. wanted two weeks from the [[Trollshaws]] till Rivendell (a distance which [[Glorfindel]] covered in two days), resulting in c. 48 days total.<ref name="lalaith">http://lalaith.vpsurf.de/Tolkien/Durin%27s_Day.html</ref>.<br />
;Explanation: The distances and days are not described in the narrative and can be measured only by references such as the moon phases and other fan calculations; therefore there can be a margin of miscalculation. <br />
<br />
:In general, perhaps the Dwarves are by nature slower travelers than Men and/or Hobbits. In ''[[The Departure of Boromir]]'' it is seen that [[Gimli]] had a problem keeping pace with Aragorn and Legolas.<br />
<br />
==Beater and Biter==<br />
The swords [[Glamdring]] and its "mate" [[Orcrist]] are said to have belonged to King [[Turgon]] of the [[First Age]]. They never appeared much in battle (Turgon fought only in the [[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]) and they were witnessed only by the Orcs of Beleriand. However, in the [[Third Age]] the swords are found in a [[Troll]] hoard in [[Eriador]], and the [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]] recognize them by their names.<br />
The Orcs don't seem to react similarly in the sight of Glamdring in ''LotR'', nor do they seem to recognize [[Narsil]]/[[Andúril]], which is much more "recent".<br />
;Explanation: There can be several theories and explanations of how the swords and even their reputations reach Eriador. However, the narrative of ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' doesn't justify their significance to the extent of being remembered and recognized by the Goblins of the Third Age, even by tradition.<br />
<br />
==The elf-king's favorite gems==<br />
The narration of ''The Hobbit'' says the [[Thranduil|elf-king]]'s favorite gems are "white."<ref>{{H|8}}, "If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems...."</ref> However, after the [[Battle of Five Armies]], the narration says, "To the Elven-king he <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Bard]]<nowiki>]</nowiki> sent the emeralds of [[Girion]], such gems as he most loved...."<ref>{{H|18}}</ref><br />
;Explanation: The sentence is somewhat ambiguous: "he" could refer to Bard or Girion instead of the elf-king. However, the elf-king's preference in gems, not the others', would be relevant to Bard's choice of what to give him.<br />
<br />
==Thráin and Thorin's settling in the [[Blue Mountains]]==<br />
[[File:Stephen Raw - Middle-earth map (1 of 4).png|250px|thumb|A map of north-west Middle-earth]]<br />
After [[Thráin|Thráin II]] and his followers returned to [[Dunland]] following the [[Battle of Azanulbizar]] in {{TA|2799}},<br />
{{Blockquote|they removed and wandered in [[Eriador]], until at last they made a home in exile in the east of the [[Ered Luin]] beyond the [[Lune]].<ref name="AppADurin">{{App|Durin}}</ref>}}<br />
From the point of view of Eriador and the Shire, "beyond the Lune" is north of it.<br />
<br />
However, the "Tale of Years" ([[Appendix B]]) states,<br />
{{Blockquote|Thráin and his son Thorin wander westwards. They settle in the South of [[Ered Luin]] beyond [[the Shire]] ({{TA|2802|n}})<ref name="AppThird"/>}}<br />
It is difficult to reconcile the descriptions "beyond the Lune" and "in the south of the Ered Luin."<br />
<br />
Other mentions of the Dwarves' homes in the Ered Luin are consistent with both possibilities. "Dwarves dwelt in the east side of the Blue Mountains, especially in those parts south of the [[Gulf of Lune]], where they have mines that are still in use."<ref name="AppEriador"/> <br />
<br />
"Especially in those parts south of the Gulf of Lune" implies that a smaller number of Dwarves lived north of the Gulf, as shown in two other quotations. In a parenthetical comment made in "Of Dwarves and Men" in ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', Tolkien indicated that beyond the inflow of the [[Little Lune]] was 'Dwarf territory'.<ref>{{PM|Dwarves}}, p. 313</ref> Likewise in Appendix A: [[Arvedui]], the last king of [[Arthedain]], "hid in the tunnels of the old dwarf-mines near the far end of the Mountains".<ref name="AppEriador"/><br />
<br />
==Westron and English==<br />
In a few places, Tolkien might be thought to have forgotten that the English, including Old English, in ''The Lord of the Rings'' is supposed to be translated from [[Westron]] and related languages. Some of these are easily explained. The most difficult is the comment, "This was ''Orthanc'', the citadel of Saruman, the name of which had (by design or chance) a twofold meaning; for in the Elvish speech ''orthanc'' signifies Mount Fang, but in the language of the Mark of old ''the Cunning Mind''."<ref>{{TT|III8}}</ref> However, ''orthanc'' means "cunning" not in [[Rohirric]] but in Old English, which Tolkien used to translate Rohirric.<br />
;Explanation: The unattested name for ''Orthanc'' in Rohirric could also mean "cunning mind".<br />
<br />
==Nameless Pass as an alternative name for Cirith Ungol in the index==<br />
The index entry for Cirith Ungol has Nameless Pass as an (alternative) name in brackets and the index entry for Nameless Pass has "see Cirith Ungol" after it in the e-book of The Lord of the Rings (i.e. The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers and The Return of the King together in one e-book) published by HarperCollinsPublishers 2005 EPub Edition MARCH 2009 ISBN: 978-0-007-32259-6 and in the e-book of The Return of the King, J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Part 3 published by HarperCollins Publishers 2008 EPub Edition © MARCH 2009 ISBN: 978-0-007-32255-8.<br />
<br />
The description of the landscape below seen by Frodo from the winding stairs in the chapter ''The Stairs of Cirith Ungol'' and the description of the landscape below seen by Sam from the pass of Cirith Ungol contradict that the Nameless Pass was an alternative name for the Pass of Cirith Ungol. In the chapter ''The Stairs of Cirith Ungol'' Frodo from above on the winding stair sees the wraith-road running from the dead city in a great revine at the head of the Morgul Valley to the "Nameless Pass" that is also referred to as the "main pass."<br />
<br />
In the chapter ''The Tower of Cirith Ungol'' Sam sees a broad road running from the Tower of Cirith Ungol down to join the road that came over the Morgul Pass. "The dead city" seems to be an alternative name for Minas Morgul. "Wraith-road" seems to be an alternative name for the Morgul-road.<br />
<br />
Frodo can see the road that runs from Minas Morgul in the great ravine at the head of the Morgul Vale to the Nameless Pass from his observation point high up on the winding stair that leads to the tunnel and then on to the pass of Cirith Ungol. Sine the road leads from the Tower of Cirith Ungol and winds down to join the road that came from the Morgul Pass, then Cirith Ungol must be higher up on the left side of the Nameless Pass, and the Nameless Pass cannot be the same as the Pass of Cirith Ungol. Since no other pass is mentioned in the landscape, the "Nameless Pass" must be the Morgul Pass (also referred to as the "main pass"), and Cirith Ungol must be the pass that is also referred to as the "high pass."<br />
<br />
==Chronology==<br />
===When Bilbo departed===<br />
In the chapter ''[[Roast Mutton]]'', [[Thorin and Company]] depart from the ''[[Green Dragon]]'' "one fine morning just before May." In the later written and published "[[The Quest of Erebor]]", part of "[[Unfinished Tales]]", the author established that the day of departure was [[27 April]].<ref>{{UT|Quest}}</ref> However, the chapter ''[[Flies and Spiders]]'' refers to what has happened "since they started their journey that May morning long ago."<br />
;Explanation: The fifth month of the [[Shire Calendar]], Thrimidge, falls between 22 April to 21 May. By the human calendar, the journey would have started just before May; but by the hobbit calendar, the journey started during Thrimidge. The second reference to May could have been a "translation error", where "Thrimidge" was translated as "May" regardless of the actual date.<br />
<br />
===[[White Council]] during the [[Watchful Peace]]===<br />
According to [[Appendix A]], "The Stewards", during the [[Watchful Peace]] "''Sauron withdrew before the power of the White Council and the Ringwraiths remained hidden in Morgul Vale''". However the Watchful Peace ended in {{TA|2460}}, three years before the White Council was formed. Thus according to [[Robert Foster]], the reference to the Council is "incorrect".<ref>[[Robert Foster]] (2001) ''[[The Complete Guide to Middle-earth|The Complete Guide to Middle-Earth: From The Hobbit through The Lord of the Rings and Beyond]]''. Random House Digital, [http://books.google.com/books?id=GNGJvGi849UC&pg=PA538 p. 538].</ref><br />
;Explanation: Foster suggests that the reference to the "White Council" is rather to "the [[Wise]]" in general.<br />
<br />
===Moon phases===<br />
Tolkien was particularly careful about the phases of the [[Moon]] in the ''LotR''. Yet some mistakes did elude him. See for example [[13 January|January 13]], [[16 January|January 16]], [[22 February|February 22]], [[22 September|September 22]].<br />
<br />
In general, it is possible that Tolkien consulted a modern almanac to model the moon phases, and also possible that he confused the meanings of "New Moon": the astronomical (the moment when the moon is darkest) and the colloquial (appearance of the new crescent moon).<ref>http://shire-reckoning.com/moon.html</ref><br />
<br />
Another mistake appears in ''The Hobbit'': [[Bard|Bard I]] killed [[Smaug]] "at the rising of the moon"<ref>{{H|15}}</ref> when "the moon rose above the eastern shore and silvered his [Smaug's] great wings... the waxing moon rose higher and higher". Also the [[thrush]] tells Bard, "Wait! Wait!... The Moon is rising." <ref>{{H|14}}</ref> However, according to astronomy a waxing moon rises only in the morning, after the sun. We can be certain the moon was waxing because this occurs the day after [[Durin's Day]], which is the first day in the last month of autumn that the new moon is visible together with the sun.<ref name="lalaith"/><br />
;Explanation: One might imagine that Bard needed to wait for the moon to fall below a cloudbank and that the tradition is corrupt.<ref name="lalaith"/><br />
<br />
===[[Shadow over Hollin]]===<br />
While the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] traverses [[Hollin]], they see and feel a flying shadow over them.<ref name="Ring"/> Since no other such phenomena occur, when the [[Fell Beast]]s are introduced, the reader makes such a connection. However later we learn that Sauron did not permit the Nazgûl to traverse west of the [[Anduin]] after their accident at [[Bruinen]].<br />
;Explanation: Possibly it was a "lost" or "disobeying" Nazgûl who despite orders found himself prematurely west of the Anduin, or simply something wholly unexplained and unrelated to the Fell Beasts. Perhaps it was some feeling of foreboding as they would eventually have to go to Moria. It could also be a sort of literal metaphor of Sauron observing them, as often throughout the books Sauron's gaze is compared to a "heavy shadow" bearing down on what it sees. Another possibility is that it was a flock of ''[[crebain]]'' (crows) sent by Saruman flying overhead.<br />
<br />
===Nights in Lórien===<br />
The surviving members of the Company spend their first night in Lórien in a "flet" in a tree. On their second night, "they rested and slept without fear on the ground".<ref >{{FR|II6}}</ref> On their third night, they sleep on the ground again, in a pavilion in [[Caras Galadon]]. "For a little while the travellers talked of their night before in the tree-tops, and of their day's journey...." And Aragorn says, "But tonight I shall sleep without fear for the first time since I left Rivendell."<ref name="Mirror"/> The night in the tree-tops was not the night before, and Aragorn did sleep without fear on the previous night, so the second night appears to be forgotten.<br />
;Explanation: In Lórien at least some members of the Fellowship lose track of the flow of time. Shortly after Aragorn's remark, the narration says, "They remained some days in Lothlórien, so far as they could tell or remember." Also, after leaving Lórien, Sam feels sure they had not spent a whole month there, despite the evidence of the phase of the moon, and Frodo thinks while in Lórien they were in the past and mentions that he doesn't remember seeing the moon while there. However, Legolas assures him that only their perception of time was changed, and Aragorn points out that the time had indeed been a month.<ref>{{FR|II9}}</ref> Aragorn's forgetting his night without fear could be an effect of this changed sense of time. The phrase in the narration "the night before in the tree-tops" is harder to explain within the story, as the narration does include the intervening night, but the inconspicuous contradiction might be deliberate foreshadowing of what the Company will experience.<br />
<br />
===Éomer and Éowyn after Aragorn's coronation===<br />
In the chapter ''[[The Steward and the King]]'', it is stated: "So the glad days passed; and on the eighth day of May the Riders of Rohan made ready, and rode off by the North-way, and with them went the sons of Elrond. All the road was lined with people to do them honour and praise them, from the Gate of the City to the walls of the Pelennor."<ref name="SaK">{{RK|VI5}}</ref> However, in ''[[Appendix B]]'' of some editions of the novel<ref>http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-1958.html</ref> there is the entry: "May 8 (of {{TA|3019|n}}) Éomer and Éowyn depart '''from''' Rohan with the sons of Elrond".<ref name="AppB4">{{App|Chief}}</ref> (Emphasis added.)<br />
<br />
===The sapling's discovery===<br />
In the text of ''[[The Return of the King]]'' it is stated: "And Aragorn planted the new tree in the court by the fountain, and swiftly and gladly it began to grow; and when the month of June entered in it was laden with blossom".<ref name="SaK"/> The wording of this sentence suggests that Aragorn planted the sapling ''before'' June began. However, in ''Appendix B'' there is the entry: "June 25 (of {{TA|3019|n}}) King Elessar finds the sapling of the White Tree",<ref name="AppB4"/> in which case it could not have blossomed until late in the month.<br />
<br />
===Walda's death===<br />
King [[Walda]]'s death date is recorded in [[Appendix A]] as [[Third Age 2851]] but in [[Appendix B]] as [[Third Age 2861]].<br />
<br />
===HarperCollins 2005 EPub Edition of March 2009===<br />
The entry that King Argeleb I was slain in battle in appendix B The Third Age is erroneously dated with the year 1977 instead of the year 1356 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966. As a consequence the following entries up to and including the entry that many Periannath migrate from Bree erroneously have the date from the entry that immediately precedes each entry that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966.<br />
<br />
The entry that the Corsairs ravage Pelargir and slay King Minardil is erroneously dated with the year 1601 instead of the year 1634 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966. The year 1601 is the year for the entry that is two entries above this entry.<br />
<br />
The entry that the Great Plague devastates Gondor is erroneously dated with the year 1634 instead of the year 1636 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966. The following entries up to and including the entry that Frumgar leads the Éothéod into the North also erroneously have the date from the entry that immeditately precedes each entry that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966.<br />
<br />
The entry that the Nazgûl issue from Mordor and besiege Minas Ithil is erroneously dated with the year 2002 instead of the year 2000 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966.<br />
<br />
The entry for the fall of Minas Ithil is erroneously dated with the year 2043 instead of the year 2002 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966.<br />
<br />
The entry that King Eärnur becomes King of Gondor and is challenged by the Witch-king is erroneously dated with the year 2000 instead of the year 2043 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966.<br />
<br />
=Corrected mistakes=<br />
Several mistakes were simply remnants of earlier concepts of Tolkien, which later escaped his attention when revising the book. Some of them were corrected in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th Anniversary Edition]].<br />
<br />
==Bridle and headstall==<br />
The first edition referred to the "bridle and bit" of [[Glorfindel]]'s horse, [[Asfaloth]].<ref name="Flight"/> [[Rhona Beare]] wrote to Tolkien asking how that was possible when elves don't use bridles. Tolkien replied in [[Letter 211]] that he'd written "bridle and bit" before thinking about how elves ride, and he changed it to "headstall" in the second edition. However, a later mention of Asfaloth's bridle remained in the chapter.<ref>"His hand left the bridle and gripped the hilt of his sword, and with a red flash he drew it."</ref><br />
<br />
==Durin's Day==<br />
The original text of ''The Hobbit'' described [[Durin's Day]] as occurring on "the first day of the last moon of autumn",<ref>{{H|3}}</ref> the "first moon of autumn",<ref>{{H|4}}</ref> and "the last week of autumn".<ref>{{H|11}}</ref> In the 1995 edition the mention in Chapter 4 was revised to place the day at the end of autumn, in line with the other two mentions.<ref>Chester N. Scoville, "''The Hobbit''" in ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]'' (2007), Michael D.C. Drout, ed., Taylor and Francis, p. 279</ref><br />
<br />
==Bandobras' parentage==<br />
The ''[[The Lord of the Rings Prologue|Prologue]]'' mentions that [[Bandobras Took]] was the son (not grandson) of [[Isengrim Took II]]. This has been corrected in the 50th Anniversary edition.<br />
<br />
==Sam's birth==<br />
In the second edition of ''LotR'', [[Samwise Gamgee]]'s year of birth was added to ''[[Appendix B|The Tale of Years]]'' as [[Third Age 2963]]. This contradicts both a later entry in ''The Tale of Years'' and the [[Appendix C]] given as [[Third Age 2980]].<ref>[[Wayne G. Hammond]], [[Christina Scull]], ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]'', page 716</ref><br />
<br />
==Gandalf's letter==<br />
The letter Gandalf leaves for Frodo at the ''[[Prancing Pony]]'' is dated "[[Midyear's Day]], Shire Year, 1418."<ref name="Strider">{{FR|I10}}</ref> However, in editions published during Tolkien's lifetime, Appendix B says that on June 29, "Gandalf meets [[Radagast]]." Then Gandalf says he left [[Bree]] at dawn of the following day,<ref name="CofE"/> which would be June 30, two days before Midyear's Day (as 1 [[Lithe]] comes between).<br />
;Explanation: Perhaps Gandalf, who was in a hurry and had been traveling for days, made the mistake. However, the entry in Appendix B for June 29, 3018, has been deleted from the 50th Anniversary Edition.<br />
<br />
==[[Gimli]]'s axe==<br />
Upon arrival in [[Edoras]], Gimli mentions his axe has touched nothing but firewood since they left Moria. Yet he also claims he and [[Legolas]] killed several Orcs at [[Amon Hen]].<br />
;Explanation: This discrepancy was noted by [[Wayne G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull]] in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]'', where they explained why they left it unchanged in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th anniversary edition]]. Amon Hen was a week before the Battle of the Hornburg; even for a stout Dwarven warrior, lamenting not killing an Orc for that short period would make him look too bloodthirsty.<br />
<br />
==Knowledge of the ''Palantíri''==<br />
After Gandalf learns that the crystal ball he has recovered is the ''[[palantír]]'' of [[Orthanc]], he tells [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] the [[White Council]] didn't know any of the ''palantíri'' (presumably those of [[Gondor]]) survived disaster in Gondor (presumably the [[Kin-strife]]).<ref>{{TT|III11}}, "It was not known to us that any of the ''palantíri'' had escaped the ruin of Gondor."</ref> However, after [[Denethor]] reveals his ''palantír'', Gandalf says in earlier editions, "Though the Stewards deemed that it was a secret kept only by themselves, long have I known that here in the White Tower, as at Orthanc, one of the Seven Stones was preserved."<ref>{{HM|RK}}, "[[The Pyre of Denethor]]"</ref><br />
;Explanation: Gandalf could have learned about the two ''palantíri'' by himself, after the last time the White Council met (66 years earlier), or he was concealing his knowledge so as to keep secret his source for this information.<br />
<br />
:However, in the Fiftieth Anniversary Edition, the sentence was revised to read, "Though the Stewards deemed that it was a secret kept only by themselves, '''long ago I guessed''' that here in the White Tower, one at least of the Seven Seeing Stones was preserved." (Emphasis added.)<br />
<br />
==Addition of the Westmarch (and Buckland) to the Shire==<br />
In early editions, the "Prologue" to ''The Lord of the Rings'' contained the sentence "Outside the [[Farthing]]s were the East and West Marches: the [[Buckland]] and the [[Westmarch]] added to the Shire in {{SR|1462}}."<ref name="OldPrologue">{{FR|Prologue}}</ref> That had two inconsistencies with other parts of the text. First, the "Tale of Years" dates the event to {{SR|1452}}.<ref name="AppLater">{{App|Later}}</ref> Second, various points indicate that Buckland was part of the Shire. The clearest may be Merry's comment to the other hobbits, when they have gone through the tunnel under the [[High Hay]] from Buckland into the [[Old Forest]], that they have left the Shire.<ref>{{FR|I6}}, "'There!' said Merry. 'You have left the Shire, and are now outside, and on the edge of the Old Forest.'"</ref><br />
;Explanation: In the 50th Anniversary Edition, the sentence was changed to "Outside the Farthings were the East and West Marches: the Buckland; and the Westmarch added to the Shire in S.R. 1452." In addition to the correction of the date, the semicolon after "Buckland" indicates that Buckland was not added to the Shire after the War of the Ring, making the sentence consistent with the idea that it was already part of the Shire.<ref name="NewPrologue">{{FR|Prologue|50}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Mirror of Galadriel==<br />
In editions prior to the 50th Anniversary Edition, the [[Appendix B|Tale of Years]] mentions that Frodo and Sam looked into the [[Mirror of Galadriel]] on [[14 February]]. However it is clear from the narrative that this occurred ''one day'' before departure on [[16 February]], not ''two''. [[Wayne G. Hammond|Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull|Scull]] decided to fix the Tale of Years so that the Mirror of Galadriel sequence happened on 15 February.<br />
<br />
=References=<br />
<references /><br />
[[Category:Debates]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Possible_inconsistencies_in_the_legendarium&diff=328918
Possible inconsistencies in the legendarium
2021-03-11T04:39:10Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Building Barad-dûr */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]] paid a great deal of attention to detail in his [[Secondary world]] to preserve a realistic consistency. <br />
However his work has been admired, studied and analyzed by "[[Tolkienist]]s" over the years in various aspects and levels; unavoidably, some more or less obvious '''inconsistencies seem to have slipped the author's attention'''. Most are revealed after more than one reading of the book and possibly thorough study. Regarding the inconsistencies, his son noted the<br />
{{quote|...credibility that my father was so anxious to maintain. Of course if he had noticed this inconsistency himself or had it pointed out to him he would have altered it without a second thought.|[[Christopher Tolkien]]'s letter to [[Wayne G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull]].<ref name=comp>{{HM|RC}}</ref>{{rp|p. xliv}}}}<br />
He also noted that:<br />
{{quote|However much my father desired to achieve consistency at every level of his work, from capital letters to the dates of dynasties, he was bound to fail. [...] His life was a perpetual battle against time (& tiredness) [...] But he 'niggled' on a grand and noble conception, & indeed its coherence in fine detail is a part of its power.|[[Christopher Tolkien]]'s letter to [[Wayne G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull]].<ref name=comp/>{{rp|p. xliii}}}}<br />
<br />
Fans of Tolkien usually accept that in any work there are usually plot holes. In a larger, far more detailed and realistic book we expect fewer (if any) plot holes, when in reality there is a far greater chance because of its complexity.<br />
<br />
Any inconsistency can be blamed on the fictitious Tolkien who adapted ancient sources such as the Red Book or on the characters who wrote and compiled those sources. Tolkien himself mentioned in Appendix D that he might have made many errors on the calendar while "translating" the "ancient sources", a comment written as a fail-safe for any narrative mistakes the author might have made, and mentioned in Appendix F ("Of the Elves") that Frodo had erred in thinking the dialect of Sindarin spoken by the elves of Lórien was Silvan Elvish.<ref>{{FR|II6}}. A footnote directs the reader to the correction in the appendix.</ref><br />
<br />
Such explanations attributing the mistakes to the "translator Tolkien" or the "original sources" are easy and unenlightening. Therefore many fans prefer to explain those inconsistencies with some internal explanation. The explanations below are of this type. For example, at least some of the logical mistakes can be attributed to the characters themselves who said a contradicting phrase, since none of them is supposed to have the "omniscience" of the author. Contradictions of this type are grouped as "character mistakes". Others are grouped as "factual mistakes", of which mistakes in chronology are a subgroup.<br />
<br />
=Character mistakes=<br />
==The Eldest==<br />
Both [[Tom Bombadil]] and [[Treebeard]] are referred to as the [[eldest]] being in [[Middle-earth]]. Tom says that about himself,<ref>{{FR|I7}}, "Eldest, that's what I am.... Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn." </ref> and [[Elrond]] mentions that the Elves knew Tom as "oldest and fatherless".<ref name="CofE">{{FR|II2}}</ref> However, [[Gandalf]] tells [[Théoden]] that Treebeard is "the oldest of all living things",<ref name="Isengard">{{TT|III8}}</ref> and Celeborn addresses Treebeard as "Eldest".<ref>{{HM|RK}}, "[[Many Partings]]"</ref><br />
;Explanation: Maybe Tom is not "alive" as Treebeard is<ref>Tom Shippey, ''The Road to Middle-earth: Revised and Expanded Edition'', p. 107</ref> (though he seems to be). On this subject, Gandalf, [[Saruman]], and [[Sauron]] have ''existed'' far longer than Treebeard, as they are [[Maiar|Maia]], but they haven't been ''alive'' (embodied physically) as long.<br />
<br />
==Giving up a Ring of Power==<br />
Gandalf says, "'A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. ''It'' may slip off treacherously, but its keeper never abandons it. At most he plays with the idea of handing it on to some one else's care&mdash;and that only at an early stage, when it first begins to grip. But as far as I know Bilbo alone in history has gone beyond playing, and really done it.'"<ref name="Shadow">{{FR|I2}}</ref> However, [[Narya|Gandalf's own ring]] was given to him freely by [[Círdan]].<ref name="AppThird">{{App|TA}}</ref> Also, the dwarves of [[Durin's Folk]] who held their Ring typically "surrendered" it when near death, and in particular [[Thrór]] gave it to his son [[Thráin II]],<ref name="AppADurin"/> as Gandalf says at the Council of Elrond.<ref name="CofE"/><br />
;Explanation: Perhaps Gandalf meant only the Rings that [[Sauron]] had had a hand in making, which might be the only ones that "grip." Gandalf's ring is one of the [[Three Rings|Three]], which Sauron didn't touch. Durin's Folk believed that they had received their Ring directly from the [[Elven-Smiths]], though Sauron did help to make it. Further, it is noted in the Appendices that the Rings could influence Dwarves to a much lesser extent than Men, specifically "the only power over [Dwarves] that the Rings wielded was to inflame their hearts with a greed of gold and precious things."<ref>{{App|A3}}</ref> Gandalf may have been speaking implicitly only of Men, considering the context of the conversation and his audience.<br />
<br />
==Sam's spying==<br />
[[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]] tells [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] that as a result of [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]]'s eavesdropping, he and [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] "know most of what Gandalf has told you about the [[The One Ring|Ring]]."<ref name=ACU>{{FR|I5}}</ref> Most of what Gandalf told Frodo was in one long conversation, at the end of which Gandalf caught Sam.<ref name="Shadow"/> This contradicts Merry's statement that after Sam was caught, he "seemed to regard himself as on parole, and dried up."<ref name=ACU/><br />
;Explanation: Maybe Sam's information was what he learned before he was caught, though that's not what Merry says.<br />
<br />
==A choice of dangers==<br />
[[Aragorn]] tells the hobbits, as they prepare to leave [[Bree]], "After [[Weathertop]] our journey will become more difficult, and we shall have to choose between various dangers."<ref name=Strider/> The ridges they have to climb after Weathertop may be more difficult than the [[Midgewater Marshes]], but they encounter no dangers on the route Aragorn chooses, and Aragorn doesn't warn the hobbits of any dangers, except the chance that the Nazgûl will find them as they cross the [[Last Bridge]].<ref name="Flight">{{FR|I12}}</ref><br />
;Explanation: Not all risked dangers actually materialize, and Aragorn does cite two other possible courses that have their own possible hazards. One is going north through the [[Ettenmoors|Ettendales]] instead of crossing the [[Ford of Bruinen]], but in addition to the danger of [[trolls]], that route would take too long and the Company could run out of food. The other is finding the Ford without following the Road, but Aragorn regards that as impossible.<ref>{{FR|I12}}, "'We cannot hope to find a path through these hills. Whatever danger may beset it, the Road is our only way to the Ford.'"</ref> In his estimation, the Road was clearly the path most likely to get the Company to Rivendell safely, regardless of whether the alternatives were truly impossible or merely less practical than the best alternative.<br />
<br />
==Aragorn's knowledge==<br />
Aragorn tells the hobbits in Bree, "I know all the lands between [[the Shire]] and the [[Misty Mountains]], for I have wandered over them for many years."<ref name="Strider"/> But later, speaking of the Ettendales, he says, "That is troll-country, and little known to me," and "I do not know the way" to Rivendell by detouring through them.<ref name="Flight"/> The Ettendales or Ettenmoors are on a line between the Shire and the northern part of the Misty Mountains.<br />
;Explanation: If we take Aragorn's line "wandered over them" literally, we can accept that Aragorn has also wandered over the Ettendales. Of course that doesn't necessarily means that Aragorn should know ''everything'' about those lands, or even know ''all'' ways (e.g., to Rivendell) through them. He says that he knows those lands "little."<br />
<br />
==Building Barad-dûr==<br />
Elrond says at his council that the foundations of [[Barad-dûr]] were made with the One Ring,<ref>{{FR|II2}}, "The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were not removed; for they were made with the power of the Ring, and while it remains they will endure.</ref> which is consistent with its destruction when the Ring is destroyed. However, according to the Tale of Years, Sauron began building Barad-dûr in about S.A. 1000 and forged the Ring in about S.A. 1600.<ref>https://www.quora.com/What-inconsistencies-if-any-appear-in-the-Hobbit-Lord-of-the-Rings-and-the-Silmarillion</ref><br />
;Explanation: Maybe Sauron ordered his Orcs to begin gathering materials and preparing the land for construction in S.A. 1000, and only commenced with building once he forged the Ring in S.A. 1600. Six hundred years is a long time, but the Barad-dûr was a monumental structure that would have required an unprecedented amount of stone, iron, and other materials to erect. Or maybe the foundations were built before the making of the Ring, but lacking a last piece, or some power of will that the Ring provided.<br />
<br />
==Heirlooms of Arnor==<br />
At the Council of Elrond, Aragorn says of [[Narsil]], the Sword of Elendil, "It has been treasured by his heirs when '''all other heirlooms were lost'''" (emphasis added).<ref name="CofE"/> However, Appendix A lists other heirlooms that were kept with it: "...there [at [[Rivendell]]] also were kept the heirlooms of their house: the [[Ring of Barahir]], the shards of Narsil, the [[star of Elendil]], and the [[sceptre of Annúminas]]."<ref name="AppEriador">{{App|Eriador}}</ref><br />
;Explanation: The Ring of Barahir was briefly lost to the Dúnedain when Arvedui bartered it to the Lossoth for supplies. After the death of Arvedui, Elrond kept the Sceptre (and presumably the second Elendilmir, though it is not explicitly mentioned) and did not hand it over to any of the Chieftains until Aragorn II became King of the Reunited Kingdom, so these could have been considered "lost" to Isildur's heirs. Thus, there was a period after the death of Arvedui during which only the Shards of Narsil were in the direct possession of the Chieftains.<br />
<br />
==Possession of the [[Nine Rings]]==<br />
In ''[[The Council of Elrond]]'' [[Gandalf]] says that the [[Nazgûl]] kept their Rings by saying "The Nine the Nazgûl keep"<ref name="CofE"/>. However in most other references, it is mentioned that Sauron had taken them.<ref>{{FR|I2}}, "the Nine [Sauron] has gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed."</ref><ref>{{FR|II7}}, "You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine."</ref> Furthermore, Frodo doesn't see any Rings on them on [[Weathertop]], and it is believed that if they did wear the Rings, they would have been fully [[Unseen|invisible]] (including their cloaks).<ref>http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q0-InvRiders</ref><br />
The line in the Council of Elrond represents Tolkien's earlier intention that the Nazgûl should still be wearing their Rings, but he later changed his mind and simply missed revising that sentence.<br />
;Explanation: The phrase can be also interpreted as "The Nine ''keep'' the Nazgûl ''in Sauron’s thrall''," though this would be an awkward construction. The doings of Sauron and the Nazgûl were mostly unknown to the Council, so it is likely that Gandalf did not actually know the physical disposition of the Rings and was merely alluding to the indelible association between the Nine Rings and the Nine Nazgûl. Moreover, as far as the Council was concerned, the situation was equivalent whether the Nine Rings were on Sauron's fingers or on those of his slaves, so the lack of precision was immaterial whatever the truth of the matter.<br />
<br />
==Feeling the ''mithril'' coat==<br />
The [[Mithril#The_Mithril_Coat|''mithril'']] coat that Bilbo gives Frodo is "almost as supple as linen",<ref name="Ring">{{FR|II3}}</ref> and Aragorn carries Frodo in Moria (after the orc chieftain spears Frodo) without noticing the coat.<ref>{{FR|II5}}</ref> However, when Bilbo slaps Frodo on the back after giving him the coat, he says, "Ow!... You are too hard now to slap!"<ref name="Ring"/><br />
;Explanation: Perhaps Bilbo is joking.<br />
<br />
:Aragorn would not likely notice the texture of Frodo's clothing while running from orcs, trolls, and a balrog; he would be focused on other things.<br />
<br />
==Galadriel's mind-reading==<br />
[[Galadriel]] tells Frodo and Sam that she knows Sauron's thoughts that concern the Elves.<ref name="Mirror">{{FR|II7}}</ref> It seems strange that they don't ask her whether she has any information they might find useful and she doesn't offer them any. Also, she doesn't seem to have known about [[Saruman]]'s betrayal some nineteen years earlier, though the defection of a member of the [[White Council]] might be thought to concern the Elves. At least, she didn't warn Gandalf in the messages he got from Lórien after reading the [[Scroll of Isildur]], the year before he trustingly entered [[Orthanc]].<ref name="CofE"/> (Also, when Aragorn was serving in Gondor under the name [[Thorongil]], he "often warned [[Ecthelion II|Ecthelion]] not to put trust in Saruman".<ref>{{HM|AA}}</ref> It's strange that he knew not to trust Saruman but Gandalf didn't.)<br />
;Explanation: Conceivably Galadriel gained the ability to read Sauron's mind sometime after the messages went to Gandalf.<br />
<br />
==Galadriel's role==<br />
Galadriel tells the Fellowship, "I will not give you counsel, saying do this, or do that. For not in doing or contriving, or in choosing between this course and another, can I avail; but only in knowing what was and is, and in part also what shall be."<ref>{{FR|I6}}</ref> Later she tells Frodo, "I do not counsel you one way or the other. I am not a counsellor."<ref name="Mirror"/> However, the rhyme she sends Aragorn advises a specific course: the [[Grey Company]] should come out of [[Rivendell]], and Aragorn should take the [[Paths of the Dead]].<ref>{{TT|III5}}</ref> Likewise [[Legolas]] and [[Gimli]] conclude that Galadriel sent the message to the Grey Company telling them to join Aragorn in [[Rohan]]; this seems to be "contriving" and "choosing between one course and another". Incidentally, it is odd that the Grey Company got this message without knowing who it was from.<ref>{{HM|RK}}, "[[The Passing of the Grey Company]]"</ref><br />
;Explanation: One could imagine that someone else (Celeborn?) made the decisions and Galadriel only sent the messages; Legolas and Gimli may have erred in thinking she was the source. Alternatively, it is conceivable that Galadriel's words to the Fellowship were calculated to have a desired impact, even though at face value they seemed to be of no use. <br />
<br />
==Tales of hobbits==<br />
Pippin tells [[Théoden]], "I have wandered in many lands, since I left my home, and never till now have I found people that knew any story concerning hobbits."<ref name="Isengard"/> But hobbits live in [[Bree]], [[Tom Bombadil]] knows many stories about hobbits, one would think the [[Rangers of the North|Rangers]] (who guard [[the Shire]] and Bree) and the Elves of Rivendell (where Bilbo has been living) would know some, and the Elves of Lórien have at least heard of hobbits.<ref>{{FR|II6}}, "We had not heard of&mdash;hobbits, of halflings, for many a long year...."</ref><br />
;Explanation: Pippin has just woken up from a nap, after a lunch that included wine, and is talking to a king for the first time in his life; he may not be thinking clearly.<br />
<br />
==Crossing Rohan inconspicuously==<br />
As they ride away from Isengard, Gandalf tells Merry that the Lidless Eye will be looking toward Rohan, so "He [Théoden] will ride from there [Helm's Deep] to Dunharrow by paths among the hills. From now on no more than two or three together are to go openly over the land, by day or night, when it can be avoided."<ref>{{TT|III11}}</ref> However, later that night, after Pippin looks into the ''palantír'' and Gandalf says they must move from the spot, Théoden says he will go in a group of twelve, and Gandalf agrees.<ref>{{TT|III11}}, "'I will keep Éomer and ten Riders,' said the king. 'They shall ride with me at early day. The rest may go with Aragorn and ride as soon as they have a mind.' 'As you will,' said Gandalf."</ref> Then when the trip to Helm's Deep starts, the number has increased to twenty-six, and Aragorn goes with Théoden.<ref>{{RK|V2}}, "Soon all were ready to depart: twenty-four horses, with Gimli behind Legolas, and Merry in front of Aragorn."</ref> The trip from Helm's Deep to Dunharrow has a group of five hundred.<ref>{{RK|V2}}, "A thousand spears had indeed already ridden away at night, but still there would be some five hundred more to go with the king."</ref> They do ride through the hills, as Gandalf had said. "Most of the time" they're in a group bigger than three.<ref>{{RK|V3}}, "Sometimes where the way was broader he [Merry] had ridden at the king's side, not noticing that many of the Riders smiled to see the two together: the hobbit on his little shaggy grey pony, and the Lord of Rohan on his great white horse. [...] But most of the time, especially on the last day, Merry had ridden by himself just behind the king, saying nothing, and trying to understand the slow sonorous speech of Rohan that he heard the men behind him using."</ref><br />
;Explanation: Maybe there was some reason, not narrated, that Gandalf changed his mind about the need for small groups (and Théoden changed his about his companions). Or maybe for most of the journey, riding in big groups couldn't be avoided, though that would make the order pointless.<br />
<br />
==The peril of deep arts==<br />
In connection with the ''palantír'' of Orthanc, Gandalf observes to Pippin, "Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves."<ref name="Palantir">{{TT|III11}}</ref> However, never in ''The Hobbit'' or ''The Lord of the Rings'' does he warn [[Thorin|Thorin]] or the hobbits against using elvish swords, which glow in the presence of orcs, or [[Daggers of Westernesse|daggers from the barrow]], which are especially effective against Ringwraiths. He returns the [[Phial of Galadriel]] to Frodo and [[Gifts of Galadriel|Galadriel's box of earth]] to Sam without any warnings. Also, there is no apparent danger in characters' using other products of elven arts (cloaks, ''[[hithlain]]'' ropes, ''[[lembas]]'').<br />
;Explanation: Maybe the ''palantíri'' are "devices" in a sense in which the other things named are not. <br />
<br />
:Furthermore, it's possible that Gandalf was only attempting to discourage Pippin's curiosity, worrying that it could lead to another dangerous situation like that with the ''palantír''.<br />
<br />
==The eyes in Orthanc==<br />
When Aragorn tells Gimli and Legolas that he's confronted Sauron in the ''palantír'', he says, "To know that I lived and walked the earth was a blow to his heart, I deem; for he knew it not till now. The eyes in Orthanc did not see through the armour of Théoden".<ref>{{RK|V2}}</ref> But Wormtongue knew that Aragorn claimed to be Isildur's heir, as Gandalf points out to Pippin.<ref name=Palantir/> Thus whether Wormtongue recognized Aragorn from Orthanc doesn't matter to Sauron's knowledge of Aragorn's existence. What Aragorn should have deduced was that either Wormtongue never told Saruman about him, or Saruman didn't reveal the knowledge, whether to Sauron through the ''palantír'' or to the Nazgûl who came to demand Saruman's supposed captive hobbit. (The latter is what Gandalf tells Pippin he fears.)<br />
<br />
==[[Mouth of Sauron]] and "Sauron the Great"==<br />
[[Aragorn]] mentions that the name "[[Sauron]]" (meaning "Abominable") is the name used by his enemies, and Sauron himself does not permit it to be pronounced.<ref>{{TT|III1}}</ref> Therefore it would be problematic, if not logically impossible, for the messenger to Dáin to refer to his master as "the Lord Sauron the Great", as Aragorn had heard at the [[Council of Elrond]],<ref>{{FR|II2}}</ref> and for a servant of Sauron to say, "I am the Mouth of Sauron".<ref>{{RK|V10}}</ref><br />
;Explanation: It could be that Aragorn was mistaken, perhaps thinking of the time before Sauron had declared himself. Another possibility is that the "Mouth" used a different name or title, perhaps in the Black Speech, and Frodo or the translator Tolkien "translated" it as Sauron to clarify it for readers. A similar possibility is that despite Aragorn's blanket statement, Sauron sometimes allowed his servants to use the name for such purposes as communicating with others who used it. As many of his enemies only knew his "true" name as Sauron, it would also allow him to keep his true names and aliases hidden from them, as well as allow them to immediately recognize whom his servants were referring to.<br />
<br />
==Hewing Orcs==<br />
At [[Helm's Deep]], battle-thirsty [[Gimli]] complains that he had 'hewn naught but wood since I left Moria' forgetting the fact that he [[Breaking of the Fellowship|fought Orcs]] not long ago.<br />
;Explanation: Hammond and Scull addressed this apparent inconsistency but it wasn't possible to "correct" it for the 50th Anniversary Edition as it would require to rewrite the dialogue.<ref name=comp/>{{rp|p. xliv}} However, it is possible to interpret Gimli as being scornful towards to his latest encounters, deliberately meaning that they were no better than "wood".<br />
<br />
=Factual mistakes=<br />
==[[Doors of Durin]]==<br />
The name ''[[Moria]]'' means "Black Chasm" and was a derogatory description of the place which the [[Dwarves]] did not like much; it was given after [[Durin's Bane]] took over the city and it was overrun by [[Orcs]]. It is therefore a paradox why that name appears on the [[Doors of Durin]] (''Ennyn Durin Aran Moria''), made in the [[Second Age]], and with the consent of the Dwarves.<br />
;Explanation: An "external" explanation is that since the translated [[Norse]] names [[Durin (disambiguation)|Durin]] and [[Narvi]] are seen in the inscription, ''Moria'' may also be a "translated" name.<br />
<br />
==[[Eagles]]==<br />
One of the best-known alleged plot holes is why the Eagles came to carry Frodo and Sam back from [[Mount Doom]] but did not help them to fly [[the One Ring]] there, or at least help them at other points in their journey such as the crossing of the Misty Mountains. It is particularly hard to understand why this idea was not proposed in the [[Council of Elrond]].<br />
;Explanation: This question is discussed in detail in [[Eagles#Flying_the_Ring_to_Mount_Doom|the article on the Eagles]], which gives several explanations.<br />
<br />
:In general the explanations for not flying the Ring to Mount Doom are better than those for the Fellowship's not at least trying to have the Eagles fly them across the Misty Mountains.<br />
<br />
==Distances==<br />
The distances of the Dwarves' travel to [[Rivendell]] in ''[[The Hobbit]]'' seem to have different proportions than those in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. Tolkien tried to reconcile the ''Hobbit'' description with the scale of the ''LotR'' map but couldn't find an appropriate solution.<ref>{{HM|RS}} p. 204</ref><br />
<br />
While Frodo and his companions needed 28 days from [[Hobbiton]] to [[Rivendell]] (10.7 miles/day)<ref name="atlas">[[Karen Wynn Fonstad]], ''[[The Atlas of Middle-earth]]''</ref>, [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] calculated that Bilbo and [[Thorin and Company]] needed 38 days (17.5 miles/day)<ref name="atlas"/>. [[Andreas Möhn|Andreas Moehn]] goes further and supposes that Thorin and Co. wanted two weeks from the [[Trollshaws]] till Rivendell (a distance which [[Glorfindel]] covered in two days), resulting in c. 48 days total.<ref name="lalaith">http://lalaith.vpsurf.de/Tolkien/Durin%27s_Day.html</ref>.<br />
;Explanation: The distances and days are not described in the narrative and can be measured only by references such as the moon phases and other fan calculations; therefore there can be a margin of miscalculation. <br />
<br />
:In general, perhaps the Dwarves are by nature slower travelers than Men and/or Hobbits. In ''[[The Departure of Boromir]]'' it is seen that [[Gimli]] had a problem keeping pace with Aragorn and Legolas.<br />
<br />
==Beater and Biter==<br />
The swords [[Glamdring]] and its "mate" [[Orcrist]] are said to have belonged to King [[Turgon]] of the [[First Age]]. They never appeared much in battle (Turgon fought only in the [[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]) and they were witnessed only by the Orcs of Beleriand. However, in the [[Third Age]] the swords are found in a [[Troll]] hoard in [[Eriador]], and the [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains]] recognize them by their names.<br />
The Orcs don't seem to react similarly in the sight of Glamdring in ''LotR'', nor do they seem to recognize [[Narsil]]/[[Andúril]], which is much more "recent".<br />
;Explanation: There can be several theories and explanations of how the swords and even their reputations reach Eriador. However, the narrative of ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' doesn't justify their significance to the extent of being remembered and recognized by the Goblins of the Third Age, even by tradition.<br />
<br />
==The elf-king's favorite gems==<br />
The narration of ''The Hobbit'' says the [[Thranduil|elf-king]]'s favorite gems are "white."<ref>{{H|8}}, "If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems...."</ref> However, after the [[Battle of Five Armies]], the narration says, "To the Elven-king he <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Bard]]<nowiki>]</nowiki> sent the emeralds of [[Girion]], such gems as he most loved...."<ref>{{H|18}}</ref><br />
;Explanation: The sentence is somewhat ambiguous: "he" could refer to Bard or Girion instead of the elf-king. However, the elf-king's preference in gems, not the others', would be relevant to Bard's choice of what to give him.<br />
<br />
==Thráin and Thorin's settling in the [[Blue Mountains]]==<br />
[[File:Stephen Raw - Middle-earth map (1 of 4).png|250px|thumb|A map of north-west Middle-earth]]<br />
After [[Thráin|Thráin II]] and his followers returned to [[Dunland]] following the [[Battle of Azanulbizar]] in {{TA|2799}},<br />
{{Blockquote|they removed and wandered in [[Eriador]], until at last they made a home in exile in the east of the [[Ered Luin]] beyond the [[Lune]].<ref name="AppADurin">{{App|Durin}}</ref>}}<br />
From the point of view of Eriador and the Shire, "beyond the Lune" is north of it.<br />
<br />
However, the "Tale of Years" ([[Appendix B]]) states,<br />
{{Blockquote|Thráin and his son Thorin wander westwards. They settle in the South of [[Ered Luin]] beyond [[the Shire]] ({{TA|2802|n}})<ref name="AppThird"/>}}<br />
It is difficult to reconcile the descriptions "beyond the Lune" and "in the south of the Ered Luin."<br />
<br />
Other mentions of the Dwarves' homes in the Ered Luin are consistent with both possibilities. "Dwarves dwelt in the east side of the Blue Mountains, especially in those parts south of the [[Gulf of Lune]], where they have mines that are still in use."<ref name="AppEriador"/> <br />
<br />
"Especially in those parts south of the Gulf of Lune" implies that a smaller number of Dwarves lived north of the Gulf, as shown in two other quotations. In a parenthetical comment made in "Of Dwarves and Men" in ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', Tolkien indicated that beyond the inflow of the [[Little Lune]] was 'Dwarf territory'.<ref>{{PM|Dwarves}}, p. 313</ref> Likewise in Appendix A: [[Arvedui]], the last king of [[Arthedain]], "hid in the tunnels of the old dwarf-mines near the far end of the Mountains".<ref name="AppEriador"/><br />
<br />
==Westron and English==<br />
In a few places, Tolkien might be thought to have forgotten that the English, including Old English, in ''The Lord of the Rings'' is supposed to be translated from [[Westron]] and related languages. Some of these are easily explained. The most difficult is the comment, "This was ''Orthanc'', the citadel of Saruman, the name of which had (by design or chance) a twofold meaning; for in the Elvish speech ''orthanc'' signifies Mount Fang, but in the language of the Mark of old ''the Cunning Mind''."<ref>{{TT|III8}}</ref> However, ''orthanc'' means "cunning" not in [[Rohirric]] but in Old English, which Tolkien used to translate Rohirric.<br />
;Explanation: The unattested name for ''Orthanc'' in Rohirric could also mean "cunning mind".<br />
<br />
==Nameless Pass as an alternative name for Cirith Ungol in the index==<br />
The index entry for Cirith Ungol has Nameless Pass as an (alternative) name in brackets and the index entry for Nameless Pass has "see Cirith Ungol" after it in the e-book of The Lord of the Rings (i.e. The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers and The Return of the King together in one e-book) published by HarperCollinsPublishers 2005 EPub Edition MARCH 2009 ISBN: 978-0-007-32259-6 and in the e-book of The Return of the King, J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Part 3 published by HarperCollins Publishers 2008 EPub Edition © MARCH 2009 ISBN: 978-0-007-32255-8.<br />
<br />
The description of the landscape below seen by Frodo from the winding stairs in the chapter ''The Stairs of Cirith Ungol'' and the description of the landscape below seen by Sam from the pass of Cirith Ungol contradict that the Nameless Pass was an alternative name for the Pass of Cirith Ungol. In the chapter ''The Stairs of Cirith Ungol'' Frodo from above on the winding stair sees the wraith-road running from the dead city in a great revine at the head of the Morgul Valley to the "Nameless Pass" that is also referred to as the "main pass."<br />
<br />
In the chapter ''The Tower of Cirith Ungol'' Sam sees a broad road running from the Tower of Cirith Ungol down to join the road that came over the Morgul Pass. "The dead city" seems to be an alternative name for Minas Morgul. "Wraith-road" seems to be an alternative name for the Morgul-road.<br />
<br />
Frodo can see the road that runs from Minas Morgul in the great ravine at the head of the Morgul Vale to the Nameless Pass from his observation point high up on the winding stair that leads to the tunnel and then on to the pass of Cirith Ungol. Sine the road leads from the Tower of Cirith Ungol and winds down to join the road that came from the Morgul Pass, then Cirith Ungol must be higher up on the left side of the Nameless Pass, and the Nameless Pass cannot be the same as the Pass of Cirith Ungol. Since no other pass is mentioned in the landscape, the "Nameless Pass" must be the Morgul Pass (also referred to as the "main pass"), and Cirith Ungol must be the pass that is also referred to as the "high pass."<br />
<br />
==Chronology==<br />
===When Bilbo departed===<br />
In the chapter ''[[Roast Mutton]]'', [[Thorin and Company]] depart from the ''[[Green Dragon]]'' "one fine morning just before May." In the later written and published "[[The Quest of Erebor]]", part of "[[Unfinished Tales]]", the author established that the day of departure was [[27 April]].<ref>{{UT|Quest}}</ref> However, the chapter ''[[Flies and Spiders]]'' refers to what has happened "since they started their journey that May morning long ago."<br />
;Explanation: The fifth month of the [[Shire Calendar]], Thrimidge, falls between 22 April to 21 May. By the human calendar, the journey would have started just before May; but by the hobbit calendar, the journey started during Thrimidge. The second reference to May could have been a "translation error", where "Thrimidge" was translated as "May" regardless of the actual date.<br />
<br />
===[[White Council]] during the [[Watchful Peace]]===<br />
According to [[Appendix A]], "The Stewards", during the [[Watchful Peace]] "''Sauron withdrew before the power of the White Council and the Ringwraiths remained hidden in Morgul Vale''". However the Watchful Peace ended in {{TA|2460}}, three years before the White Council was formed. Thus according to [[Robert Foster]], the reference to the Council is "incorrect".<ref>[[Robert Foster]] (2001) ''[[The Complete Guide to Middle-earth|The Complete Guide to Middle-Earth: From The Hobbit through The Lord of the Rings and Beyond]]''. Random House Digital, [http://books.google.com/books?id=GNGJvGi849UC&pg=PA538 p. 538].</ref><br />
;Explanation: Foster suggests that the reference to the "White Council" is rather to "the [[Wise]]" in general.<br />
<br />
===Moon phases===<br />
Tolkien was particularly careful about the phases of the [[Moon]] in the ''LotR''. Yet some mistakes did elude him. See for example [[13 January|January 13]], [[16 January|January 16]], [[22 February|February 22]], [[22 September|September 22]].<br />
<br />
In general, it is possible that Tolkien consulted a modern almanac to model the moon phases, and also possible that he confused the meanings of "New Moon": the astronomical (the moment when the moon is darkest) and the colloquial (appearance of the new crescent moon).<ref>http://shire-reckoning.com/moon.html</ref><br />
<br />
Another mistake appears in ''The Hobbit'': [[Bard|Bard I]] killed [[Smaug]] "at the rising of the moon"<ref>{{H|15}}</ref> when "the moon rose above the eastern shore and silvered his [Smaug's] great wings... the waxing moon rose higher and higher". Also the [[thrush]] tells Bard, "Wait! Wait!... The Moon is rising." <ref>{{H|14}}</ref> However, according to astronomy a waxing moon rises only in the morning, after the sun. We can be certain the moon was waxing because this occurs the day after [[Durin's Day]], which is the first day in the last month of autumn that the new moon is visible together with the sun.<ref name="lalaith"/><br />
;Explanation: One might imagine that Bard needed to wait for the moon to fall below a cloudbank and that the tradition is corrupt.<ref name="lalaith"/><br />
<br />
===[[Shadow over Hollin]]===<br />
While the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] traverses [[Hollin]], they see and feel a flying shadow over them.<ref name="Ring"/> Since no other such phenomena occur, when the [[Fell Beast]]s are introduced, the reader makes such a connection. However later we learn that Sauron did not permit the Nazgûl to traverse west of the [[Anduin]] after their accident at [[Bruinen]].<br />
;Explanation: Possibly it was a "lost" or "disobeying" Nazgûl who despite orders found himself prematurely west of the Anduin, or simply something wholly unexplained and unrelated to the Fell Beasts. Perhaps it was some feeling of foreboding as they would eventually have to go to Moria. It could also be a sort of literal metaphor of Sauron observing them, as often throughout the books Sauron's gaze is compared to a "heavy shadow" bearing down on what it sees. Another possibility is that it was a flock of ''[[crebain]]'' (crows) sent by Saruman flying overhead.<br />
<br />
===Nights in Lórien===<br />
The surviving members of the Company spend their first night in Lórien in a "flet" in a tree. On their second night, "they rested and slept without fear on the ground".<ref >{{FR|II6}}</ref> On their third night, they sleep on the ground again, in a pavilion in [[Caras Galadon]]. "For a little while the travellers talked of their night before in the tree-tops, and of their day's journey...." And Aragorn says, "But tonight I shall sleep without fear for the first time since I left Rivendell."<ref name="Mirror"/> The night in the tree-tops was not the night before, and Aragorn did sleep without fear on the previous night, so the second night appears to be forgotten.<br />
;Explanation: In Lórien at least some members of the Fellowship lose track of the flow of time. Shortly after Aragorn's remark, the narration says, "They remained some days in Lothlórien, so far as they could tell or remember." Also, after leaving Lórien, Sam feels sure they had not spent a whole month there, despite the evidence of the phase of the moon, and Frodo thinks while in Lórien they were in the past and mentions that he doesn't remember seeing the moon while there. However, Legolas assures him that only their perception of time was changed, and Aragorn points out that the time had indeed been a month.<ref>{{FR|II9}}</ref> Aragorn's forgetting his night without fear could be an effect of this changed sense of time. The phrase in the narration "the night before in the tree-tops" is harder to explain within the story, as the narration does include the intervening night, but the inconspicuous contradiction might be deliberate foreshadowing of what the Company will experience.<br />
<br />
===Éomer and Éowyn after Aragorn's coronation===<br />
In the chapter ''[[The Steward and the King]]'', it is stated: "So the glad days passed; and on the eighth day of May the Riders of Rohan made ready, and rode off by the North-way, and with them went the sons of Elrond. All the road was lined with people to do them honour and praise them, from the Gate of the City to the walls of the Pelennor."<ref name="SaK">{{RK|VI5}}</ref> However, in ''[[Appendix B]]'' of some editions of the novel<ref>http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-1958.html</ref> there is the entry: "May 8 (of {{TA|3019|n}}) Éomer and Éowyn depart '''from''' Rohan with the sons of Elrond".<ref name="AppB4">{{App|Chief}}</ref> (Emphasis added.)<br />
<br />
===The sapling's discovery===<br />
In the text of ''[[The Return of the King]]'' it is stated: "And Aragorn planted the new tree in the court by the fountain, and swiftly and gladly it began to grow; and when the month of June entered in it was laden with blossom".<ref name="SaK"/> The wording of this sentence suggests that Aragorn planted the sapling ''before'' June began. However, in ''Appendix B'' there is the entry: "June 25 (of {{TA|3019|n}}) King Elessar finds the sapling of the White Tree",<ref name="AppB4"/> in which case it could not have blossomed until late in the month.<br />
<br />
===Walda's death===<br />
King [[Walda]]'s death date is recorded in [[Appendix A]] as [[Third Age 2851]] but in [[Appendix B]] as [[Third Age 2861]].<br />
<br />
===HarperCollins 2005 EPub Edition of March 2009===<br />
The entry that King Argeleb I was slain in battle in appendix B The Third Age is erroneously dated with the year 1977 instead of the year 1356 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966. As a consequence the following entries up to and including the entry that many Periannath migrate from Bree erroneously have the date from the entry that immediately precedes each entry that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966.<br />
<br />
The entry that the Corsairs ravage Pelargir and slay King Minardil is erroneously dated with the year 1601 instead of the year 1634 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966. The year 1601 is the year for the entry that is two entries above this entry.<br />
<br />
The entry that the Great Plague devastates Gondor is erroneously dated with the year 1634 instead of the year 1636 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966. The following entries up to and including the entry that Frumgar leads the Éothéod into the North also erroneously have the date from the entry that immeditately precedes each entry that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966.<br />
<br />
The entry that the Nazgûl issue from Mordor and besiege Minas Ithil is erroneously dated with the year 2002 instead of the year 2000 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966.<br />
<br />
The entry for the fall of Minas Ithil is erroneously dated with the year 2043 instead of the year 2002 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966.<br />
<br />
The entry that King Eärnur becomes King of Gondor and is challenged by the Witch-king is erroneously dated with the year 2000 instead of the year 2043 that was in the edition of the ROTK by George Allen & Unwin from 1966.<br />
<br />
=Corrected mistakes=<br />
Several mistakes were simply remnants of earlier concepts of Tolkien, which later escaped his attention when revising the book. Some of them were corrected in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th Anniversary Edition]].<br />
<br />
==Bridle and headstall==<br />
The first edition referred to the "bridle and bit" of [[Glorfindel]]'s horse, [[Asfaloth]].<ref name="Flight"/> [[Rhona Beare]] wrote to Tolkien asking how that was possible when elves don't use bridles. Tolkien replied in [[Letter 211]] that he'd written "bridle and bit" before thinking about how elves ride, and he changed it to "headstall" in the second edition. However, a later mention of Asfaloth's bridle remained in the chapter.<ref>"His hand left the bridle and gripped the hilt of his sword, and with a red flash he drew it."</ref><br />
<br />
==Durin's Day==<br />
The original text of ''The Hobbit'' described [[Durin's Day]] as occurring on "the first day of the last moon of autumn",<ref>{{H|3}}</ref> the "first moon of autumn",<ref>{{H|4}}</ref> and "the last week of autumn".<ref>{{H|11}}</ref> In the 1995 edition the mention in Chapter 4 was revised to place the day at the end of autumn, in line with the other two mentions.<ref>Chester N. Scoville, "''The Hobbit''" in ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment]]'' (2007), Michael D.C. Drout, ed., Taylor and Francis, p. 279</ref><br />
<br />
==Bandobras' parentage==<br />
The ''[[The Lord of the Rings Prologue|Prologue]]'' mentions that [[Bandobras Took]] was the son (not grandson) of [[Isengrim Took II]]. This has been corrected in the 50th Anniversary edition.<br />
<br />
==Sam's birth==<br />
In the second edition of ''LotR'', [[Samwise Gamgee]]'s year of birth was added to ''[[Appendix B|The Tale of Years]]'' as [[Third Age 2963]]. This contradicts both a later entry in ''The Tale of Years'' and the [[Appendix C]] given as [[Third Age 2980]].<ref>[[Wayne G. Hammond]], [[Christina Scull]], ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]'', page 716</ref><br />
<br />
==Gandalf's letter==<br />
The letter Gandalf leaves for Frodo at the ''[[Prancing Pony]]'' is dated "[[Midyear's Day]], Shire Year, 1418."<ref name="Strider">{{FR|I10}}</ref> However, in editions published during Tolkien's lifetime, Appendix B says that on June 29, "Gandalf meets [[Radagast]]." Then Gandalf says he left [[Bree]] at dawn of the following day,<ref name="CofE"/> which would be June 30, two days before Midyear's Day (as 1 [[Lithe]] comes between).<br />
;Explanation: Perhaps Gandalf, who was in a hurry and had been traveling for days, made the mistake. However, the entry in Appendix B for June 29, 3018, has been deleted from the 50th Anniversary Edition.<br />
<br />
==[[Gimli]]'s axe==<br />
Upon arrival in [[Edoras]], Gimli mentions his axe has touched nothing but firewood since they left Moria. Yet he also claims he and [[Legolas]] killed several Orcs at [[Amon Hen]].<br />
;Explanation: This discrepancy was noted by [[Wayne G. Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull]] in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]'', where they explained why they left it unchanged in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th anniversary edition]]. Amon Hen was a week before the Battle of the Hornburg; even for a stout Dwarven warrior, lamenting not killing an Orc for that short period would make him look too bloodthirsty.<br />
<br />
==Knowledge of the ''Palantíri''==<br />
After Gandalf learns that the crystal ball he has recovered is the ''[[palantír]]'' of [[Orthanc]], he tells [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] the [[White Council]] didn't know any of the ''palantíri'' (presumably those of [[Gondor]]) survived disaster in Gondor (presumably the [[Kin-strife]]).<ref>{{TT|III11}}, "It was not known to us that any of the ''palantíri'' had escaped the ruin of Gondor."</ref> However, after [[Denethor]] reveals his ''palantír'', Gandalf says in earlier editions, "Though the Stewards deemed that it was a secret kept only by themselves, long have I known that here in the White Tower, as at Orthanc, one of the Seven Stones was preserved."<ref>{{HM|RK}}, "[[The Pyre of Denethor]]"</ref><br />
;Explanation: Gandalf could have learned about the two ''palantíri'' by himself, after the last time the White Council met (66 years earlier), or he was concealing his knowledge so as to keep secret his source for this information.<br />
<br />
:However, in the Fiftieth Anniversary Edition, the sentence was revised to read, "Though the Stewards deemed that it was a secret kept only by themselves, '''long ago I guessed''' that here in the White Tower, one at least of the Seven Seeing Stones was preserved." (Emphasis added.)<br />
<br />
==Addition of the Westmarch (and Buckland) to the Shire==<br />
In early editions, the "Prologue" to ''The Lord of the Rings'' contained the sentence "Outside the [[Farthing]]s were the East and West Marches: the [[Buckland]] and the [[Westmarch]] added to the Shire in {{SR|1462}}."<ref name="OldPrologue">{{FR|Prologue}}</ref> That had two inconsistencies with other parts of the text. First, the "Tale of Years" dates the event to {{SR|1452}}.<ref name="AppLater">{{App|Later}}</ref> Second, various points indicate that Buckland was part of the Shire. The clearest may be Merry's comment to the other hobbits, when they have gone through the tunnel under the [[High Hay]] from Buckland into the [[Old Forest]], that they have left the Shire.<ref>{{FR|I6}}, "'There!' said Merry. 'You have left the Shire, and are now outside, and on the edge of the Old Forest.'"</ref><br />
;Explanation: In the 50th Anniversary Edition, the sentence was changed to "Outside the Farthings were the East and West Marches: the Buckland; and the Westmarch added to the Shire in S.R. 1452." In addition to the correction of the date, the semicolon after "Buckland" indicates that Buckland was not added to the Shire after the War of the Ring, making the sentence consistent with the idea that it was already part of the Shire.<ref name="NewPrologue">{{FR|Prologue|50}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Mirror of Galadriel==<br />
In editions prior to the 50th Anniversary Edition, the [[Appendix B|Tale of Years]] mentions that Frodo and Sam looked into the [[Mirror of Galadriel]] on [[14 February]]. However it is clear from the narrative that this occurred ''one day'' before departure on [[16 February]], not ''two''. [[Wayne G. Hammond|Hammond]] and [[Christina Scull|Scull]] decided to fix the Tale of Years so that the Mirror of Galadriel sequence happened on 15 February.<br />
<br />
=References=<br />
<references /><br />
[[Category:Debates]]</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User:Er%C3%B3n%C3%A8hire&diff=328917
User:Erónèhire
2021-03-11T02:39:05Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages: */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{user infobox| image=| name=Erónèhire| othernames= Akhal, Maulgrim| position=Captian of Arnor| language=Westron, Quenya, Erebor Runes, Entish(-ish...)| location=Annùmimas, Arnor| occupation=Driving away enemies| birth=Third Age, 1940, Afterlithe 22nd| birthlocation=Annùminas| age=Depends...| gender=Male| height=6ft, 2in| hair=Long, Black| eyes=Grey-Green| irc=| email=The Dúnedain had no email...| facebook=nor facebook...| twitter=nor twitter for that matter!| linkedin=| website=| userboxes= {{user numenor}}{{User dunedain north}}{{user good}}{{user lore-3}}{{user balrogwings2}}{{user dagor-yes}}{{user entwives4}}{{user evil2}}{{user nl-0}}{{user en-N}}{{user fr-0}}{{user de-0}}{{user es-2}}{{user sv-0}}{{user firefox}}{{user under3m}}{{user USA}}{{user randompage}}{{user recentchanges}}{{user ref}}}}<br />
==Pronunciation==<br />
AIR-rhon-eh-Hire<br />
==Description==<br />
Erónèhire is a J. R. R. Tolkien fanatic. Joined on Feb. 18th, 2021.<br />
=Books I've read:=<br />
* ''[[The Hobbit]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Two Towers]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Return of the King]]'' (Including Appendixes 'A' through 'F'. <br />
<br />
* ''[[The Silmarillion]]''<br />
<br />
* ''J. R. R. Tolkien's Unfinished Tales'':<br />
<br />
: 1. ''Of Tour and his coming to [[Gondolin]]''<br />
<br />
: 2. ''Narn I Hîn Húrin''<br />
<br />
: 3. ''A Description of the Island of [[Númenor]]''<br />
<br />
: 4. ''[[Aldarion]] and [[Erendis]]''<br />
<br />
: 5. ''The Line of [[Elros]]: Kings of Númenor''<br />
<br />
: 6. ''The History of [[Galadriel]] and [[Celeborn]] and of [[Amroth]] King of [[Lorien]]''<br />
<br />
: 7. ''The Disaster of the [[Gladden Fields]]''<br />
<br />
: 8. ''[[Cirion]] and [[Eorl]] and the Friendship of [[Gondor]] and [[Rohan]]''<br />
<br />
: 9. ''The Quest of [[Erebor]]''<br />
<br />
: 10. ''The Hunt for the [[Ring]]''<br />
<br />
: 11. ''The [[Battles of the Fords of Isen]]''<br />
<br />
: 12. ''The [[Drúedain]]''<br />
<br />
: 13. ''The [[Istari]]''<br />
<br />
: 14. ''The [[ Palantíri]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]''<br />
<br />
* ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]''<br />
<br />
* ''The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhtelm's son''<br />
<br />
* ''Tree and Leaf''<br />
<br />
=Favorite Characters=<br />
Sorted alphabetically, not by "most favorite to least favorite" or vice versa.<br />
* Of [[Dwarves]]: Hands down, [[Thorin]].<br />
* Of [[Ents]]: The ever-wise and un-hasty [[Treebeard]].<br />
* Of [[Elves]]: [[Gil-Galad]], of course!!<br />
* Of [[Hobbits]]: Either [[Pippin]] or [[Merry]]; in the movies, Frodo looks like he has no will of his own.<br />
* Of the [[Istari]]: [[Gandalf]]!! Who else?<br />
* Of [[Men]]: [[Beren]], rivaling even the Elves in his heroic deeds, and [[Bard]], the dragon slayer, demise of [[Smaug]].<br />
* Of [[Orcs]]: None-None at all.<br />
=Accomplishments=<br />
==Heavy Edits (edits with over (+-400):==<br />
<br />
==Adopted (Un-orphaned) Pages:==<br />
* [[Earth-bread]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Coffee]] to [[Dwarves]].<br />
* [[Great Signal]] to [[March 10]].<br />
<br />
==Created Pages:==<br />
* [[User:Erónèhire]].</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=10_March&diff=328916
10 March
2021-03-11T02:38:11Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* In Arda */</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{month|March}}<br />
Events that occurred on {{PAGENAME}}<br />
==On Earth==<br />
</noinclude><br />
* '''[[1950]]''' - [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] writes Letters [[Letter 125|125]] and [[Letter 126|126]].<br />
* '''[[1950]]''' - [[Stephen Oliver]] is born.<br />
* '''[[1963]]''' - Voice actor [[Steve Staley]] is born.<br />
* '''[[1981]]''' - [[Amon Hen 49|''Amon Hen'' 49]] is published.<br />
* '''[[2004]]''' - "Siege of Gondor", the eighth set in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Trading Card Game]]'' is released.<br />
* '''[[2007]]''' - "[[The One Ring Celebration]] 2007" in [[wikipedia:Burbank, California|Burbank, California]].<br />
* '''[[2008]]''' - ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' is elected "Best Foreign Book of All Time" in the [[wikipedia:Netherlands|Netherlands]].<br />
<br />
==In Arda==<br />
* {{TA|2510}}:<br />
** [[Borondir]] and his companion depart from [[Minas Tirith]] in search of the [[Éothéod]].<br />
* {{TA|3019}}: <br />
** The [[Great Signal]].<br />
** [[The Dawnless Day]]. <br />
** [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]], [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] and [[Gollum]] pass the [[Cross-roads]], and see the [[Minas Morgul|Morgul-host]] set forth, towards [[Minas Tirith]].<br />
** The Muster of [[Rohan]] takes place. The [[Rohirrim]] ride from [[Harrowdale]]. <br />
** [[Faramir]] is rescued by [[Gandalf]] and [[Imrahil]] outside the gates of [[Minas Tirith|the City]]. He meets [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] and reports to [[Denethor]].<br />
** [[Aragorn]], leading the [[Dead Men]] and the [[Grey Company]], crosses the river [[Ringló]]. <br />
** An army of [[Orcs]] from the [[Morannon]] takes [[Cair Andros]] and passes into [[Anórien]]. <noinclude><br />
[[Category:Dates|070]]<br />
[[de:10. März]]<br />
[[fi:10. maaliskuuta]]</noinclude></div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2021&diff=328901
User talk:Mith/2021
2021-03-10T15:57:01Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* TolkienGateway Chat */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2016|2017|2018|2019|2020}}<br />
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''&rArr; Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table><br />
<!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--><br />
<br />
==Maps drawn by J.R.R. Tolkien==<br />
Since you prefer maps over a description of what is on those maps, why don't you act in a constructive manner by obtaining the permission of the Tolkien Estate and uploading the maps on the Tolkien Estate Website behind the door to Moria and the First Map of The Lord of the Rings on the thetolkienist website and obtaining the permission of the copyright holder of the redrawn maps of the Second Map of The Lord of the Rings before acting in a destructive manner and deleting a description of what is on The First Map of The Lord of the Rings, which is not available as a file on the Tolkien Gateway? --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 11:34, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The issue is less that you've described the map, but more that it wasn't really providing a lot of useful information for the reader. This is an encyclopaedia, not a repository of trivia. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:39, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is [[:File:Christopher Tolkien - The First Map (composite).gif|this the image you say isn't on the wiki]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:44, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That "it is not providing a lot of useful information for the reader" and that it is "trivia" is merely your subjective opinion as one individual reader. Your personal opinion is not representative for the opinion of all the readers of this wiki and frankly I do not write content to please you, but content that could be interesting and not considered to be "trivia" for a lot of other readers. Christopher Tolkien wrote extensively in the History of The Lord of the Rings series books about how the geography of Middle-earth changed when one compares the various maps, so he certainly did not consider changes in geography to be "trivia". There are Tolkien fans that are enthusiastic about Tolkien's maps and map making as can be seen in the Other Minds Magazine or in the posts on the Other Minds facebook group Facebook page. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 19:28, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Do you have access to a copy of The History of The Lord of the Rings, Part 2, The Treason of Isengard? Have you ever looked at the First Map of the Lord of the Rings? If you look at page 299 to page 301, page 302, page 303, page 305 page 309 and compare it with the map that you asked me about, you can see that the map you asked my about is a combination of the maps on page 302, page 303, page 305 and page 309 and that those are merely redrawn maps that Christopher Tolkien redrew from The First Map of the Lord of the Rings and if you have looked on the First Map of the Lord of the Rings includes lots of details, which are not included on the redrawn maps. And no, the First Map of the Lord of the Rings has not been uploaded to the Tolkien Gateway wiki. The First Map of the Lord of the Rings can be found with the following URL https://thetolkienist.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/first-map-of-Lord-of-the-Rings_web.jpg The maps on the Tolkien Estate website can be found with the following URL https://www.tolkienestate.com/en/painting/maps/maps.html --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 19:28, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Yes. What is wrong with the redrawn map by Christopher Tolkien? It has the same detail, does it not? What about that image lacks the detail you need for the Umbar article? I am enthusiastic about maps, too, and I can assure you I am ''extremely'' knowledgeable about Tolkien fandom, but what is the actual analysis or information you are providing here? You are describing the changes referred to by Christopher above, you are literally just describing a static object. Talking about the changes and what they mean would be genuinely useful information. <br />
::::Also, can you please include more punctuation in your sentences. I think it is contributing to your messages sounding rude, which I hope isn't your intention. Thanks. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Artwork which I uploaded==<br />
I was wondering, is there any specific reason why you deleted all artwork by A-denn, and others which I clearly provided evidence of consent on the part of the authors?<br />
<br />
Also - what about [[:Category:Images by Eva Zahradníková|Eva Zahradníková]], whose artwork is still featured on this site, yet a number of it was deleted by you? -- [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 12:40, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It was three months ago so I honestly cannot recall. Undoubtedly there was a reason for removing those ones. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::About A-denn's artwork (for example, 'Makar and Measse') specifically, perhaps it was the fact that I uploaded it under 'A-Denn' instead of 'A-denn'. Can you check it out, if you find time? -- [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 18:09, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: P.S. What's up with the font? Is it just me, or has there been a change? -- [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 12:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC) <br />
<br />
::I enlarged it at the request of [[User:LorenzoCB]] who said that it is too small. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Capitalization==<br />
Hi, the subcategories in [[:Category:Titles]] remain wrongly capitalized. Can you move them, please? --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 13:50, 1 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Unfortunately not. In our version of the software it is not possible to move a category. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:37, 2 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Oh, I thought categories could be edited with the bot. I'll see if I do it manually then and revise things by the way. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:43, 3 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The bot can be used to change the categories on an article, but can't be used to change the category pages themselves. I can bot the former part of this, if you like? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:22, 3 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::That's what I meant with moving them. Just change the categories in the articles with the correct one and delete the former ones. Sorry, I assumed this was the usual. No hurry at all, but if I don't point this now I would forget it. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:12, 3 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::OK, so Cloudfare is stopping the bot from working properly so I did this manually. But in the process spotted that this is a total mess between [[:C:Titles]], [[:C:Rulers]], and [[:Category:Positions and Occupations]]. So this needs work! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:35, 21 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Nice work! Holly molly, I had never spotted those categories. In a first sight I'd suggest to remove "Rulers", as it is redundant and "Titles" is more properly applied; and to change "Positions and occupations" to simply "Occupations". And we also have [[:Category:Epithets]], which I wished to revise at some point. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:10, 21 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Info boxes ==<br />
<br />
I have a simple, stupid question. How do you create an info box for a personal user page? <br />
Many thanks! --[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 16:58, 23 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
:You use [[Template:User infobox]]. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:16, 27 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TolkienGateway Chat ==<br />
<br />
I was curious about this application, but I am having difficulty accessing it. Could you help direct me?--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 17:42, 9 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Seems it is fallen since long ago. Mith, it would be nice to delete that page, it also confused me when I first saw it. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 08:21, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Why don't we reboot it? give it a kick and get it running? We could have meetings where even those too inexperienced to format new pages could give suggestions. I have a few, and I might as well suggest them now; 1. Get rid of the J.R.R. Tolkien IQ when replying to a message. 2. Add more questions to the Tolkien IQ for editors (Preferably ones that only people who have read his works could answer). 3. And, this is kind of frivolous, but we could design a 'Tolkien's Works' quiz page and a leader-board.--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 15:57, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Melko ==<br />
<br />
I've noticed that many articles have the word 'Melko' in them. I am assuming that it means Melkor, but nowhere that I have read in Tolkien's books does he name him as 'Melko.' What's up with this? Is it a spelling error?--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 03:59, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:''Melko'' is the early [[Qenya]] name used by Tolkien in earlier versions of the [[Legendarium]]. You may notice that this and other spellings (like ''Earendel'' instead of ''Earendil'') are used in articles or sections dealing with ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]'' or other earlier texts. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 08:21, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Ah, thank you! I had forgotten about the Quenyan roots.--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 15:34, 10 March 2021 (UTC)</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2021&diff=328898
User talk:Mith/2021
2021-03-10T15:34:10Z
<p>Erónèhire: /* Melko */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2016|2017|2018|2019|2020}}<br />
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''&rArr; Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table><br />
<!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--><br />
<br />
==Maps drawn by J.R.R. Tolkien==<br />
Since you prefer maps over a description of what is on those maps, why don't you act in a constructive manner by obtaining the permission of the Tolkien Estate and uploading the maps on the Tolkien Estate Website behind the door to Moria and the First Map of The Lord of the Rings on the thetolkienist website and obtaining the permission of the copyright holder of the redrawn maps of the Second Map of The Lord of the Rings before acting in a destructive manner and deleting a description of what is on The First Map of The Lord of the Rings, which is not available as a file on the Tolkien Gateway? --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 11:34, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The issue is less that you've described the map, but more that it wasn't really providing a lot of useful information for the reader. This is an encyclopaedia, not a repository of trivia. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:39, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is [[:File:Christopher Tolkien - The First Map (composite).gif|this the image you say isn't on the wiki]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:44, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That "it is not providing a lot of useful information for the reader" and that it is "trivia" is merely your subjective opinion as one individual reader. Your personal opinion is not representative for the opinion of all the readers of this wiki and frankly I do not write content to please you, but content that could be interesting and not considered to be "trivia" for a lot of other readers. Christopher Tolkien wrote extensively in the History of The Lord of the Rings series books about how the geography of Middle-earth changed when one compares the various maps, so he certainly did not consider changes in geography to be "trivia". There are Tolkien fans that are enthusiastic about Tolkien's maps and map making as can be seen in the Other Minds Magazine or in the posts on the Other Minds facebook group Facebook page. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 19:28, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Do you have access to a copy of The History of The Lord of the Rings, Part 2, The Treason of Isengard? Have you ever looked at the First Map of the Lord of the Rings? If you look at page 299 to page 301, page 302, page 303, page 305 page 309 and compare it with the map that you asked me about, you can see that the map you asked my about is a combination of the maps on page 302, page 303, page 305 and page 309 and that those are merely redrawn maps that Christopher Tolkien redrew from The First Map of the Lord of the Rings and if you have looked on the First Map of the Lord of the Rings includes lots of details, which are not included on the redrawn maps. And no, the First Map of the Lord of the Rings has not been uploaded to the Tolkien Gateway wiki. The First Map of the Lord of the Rings can be found with the following URL https://thetolkienist.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/first-map-of-Lord-of-the-Rings_web.jpg The maps on the Tolkien Estate website can be found with the following URL https://www.tolkienestate.com/en/painting/maps/maps.html --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 19:28, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Yes. What is wrong with the redrawn map by Christopher Tolkien? It has the same detail, does it not? What about that image lacks the detail you need for the Umbar article? I am enthusiastic about maps, too, and I can assure you I am ''extremely'' knowledgeable about Tolkien fandom, but what is the actual analysis or information you are providing here? You are describing the changes referred to by Christopher above, you are literally just describing a static object. Talking about the changes and what they mean would be genuinely useful information. <br />
::::Also, can you please include more punctuation in your sentences. I think it is contributing to your messages sounding rude, which I hope isn't your intention. Thanks. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Artwork which I uploaded==<br />
I was wondering, is there any specific reason why you deleted all artwork by A-denn, and others which I clearly provided evidence of consent on the part of the authors?<br />
<br />
Also - what about [[:Category:Images by Eva Zahradníková|Eva Zahradníková]], whose artwork is still featured on this site, yet a number of it was deleted by you? -- [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 12:40, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It was three months ago so I honestly cannot recall. Undoubtedly there was a reason for removing those ones. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::About A-denn's artwork (for example, 'Makar and Measse') specifically, perhaps it was the fact that I uploaded it under 'A-Denn' instead of 'A-denn'. Can you check it out, if you find time? -- [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 18:09, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: P.S. What's up with the font? Is it just me, or has there been a change? -- [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 12:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC) <br />
<br />
::I enlarged it at the request of [[User:LorenzoCB]] who said that it is too small. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Capitalization==<br />
Hi, the subcategories in [[:Category:Titles]] remain wrongly capitalized. Can you move them, please? --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 13:50, 1 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Unfortunately not. In our version of the software it is not possible to move a category. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:37, 2 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Oh, I thought categories could be edited with the bot. I'll see if I do it manually then and revise things by the way. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:43, 3 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The bot can be used to change the categories on an article, but can't be used to change the category pages themselves. I can bot the former part of this, if you like? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:22, 3 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::That's what I meant with moving them. Just change the categories in the articles with the correct one and delete the former ones. Sorry, I assumed this was the usual. No hurry at all, but if I don't point this now I would forget it. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:12, 3 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::OK, so Cloudfare is stopping the bot from working properly so I did this manually. But in the process spotted that this is a total mess between [[:C:Titles]], [[:C:Rulers]], and [[:Category:Positions and Occupations]]. So this needs work! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:35, 21 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Nice work! Holly molly, I had never spotted those categories. In a first sight I'd suggest to remove "Rulers", as it is redundant and "Titles" is more properly applied; and to change "Positions and occupations" to simply "Occupations". And we also have [[:Category:Epithets]], which I wished to revise at some point. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:10, 21 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Info boxes ==<br />
<br />
I have a simple, stupid question. How do you create an info box for a personal user page? <br />
Many thanks! --[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 16:58, 23 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
:You use [[Template:User infobox]]. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:16, 27 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TolkienGateway Chat ==<br />
<br />
I was curious about this application, but I am having difficulty accessing it. Could you help direct me?--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 17:42, 9 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Seems it is fallen since long ago. Mith, it would be nice to delete that page, it also confused me when I first saw it. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 08:21, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Melko ==<br />
<br />
I've noticed that many articles have the word 'Melko' in them. I am assuming that it means Melkor, but nowhere that I have read in Tolkien's books does he name him as 'Melko.' What's up with this? Is it a spelling error?--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 03:59, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:''Melko'' is the early [[Qenya]] name used by Tolkien in earlier versions of the [[Legendarium]]. You may notice that this and other spellings (like ''Earendel'' instead of ''Earendil'') are used in articles or sections dealing with ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]'' or other earlier texts. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 08:21, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Ah, thank you! I had forgotten about the Quenyan roots.--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 15:34, 10 March 2021 (UTC)</div>
Erónèhire
https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2021&diff=328897
User talk:Mith/2021
2021-03-10T15:33:53Z
<p>Erónèhire: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2016|2017|2018|2019|2020}}<br />
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''&rArr; Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table><br />
<!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--><br />
<br />
==Maps drawn by J.R.R. Tolkien==<br />
Since you prefer maps over a description of what is on those maps, why don't you act in a constructive manner by obtaining the permission of the Tolkien Estate and uploading the maps on the Tolkien Estate Website behind the door to Moria and the First Map of The Lord of the Rings on the thetolkienist website and obtaining the permission of the copyright holder of the redrawn maps of the Second Map of The Lord of the Rings before acting in a destructive manner and deleting a description of what is on The First Map of The Lord of the Rings, which is not available as a file on the Tolkien Gateway? --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 11:34, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The issue is less that you've described the map, but more that it wasn't really providing a lot of useful information for the reader. This is an encyclopaedia, not a repository of trivia. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:39, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is [[:File:Christopher Tolkien - The First Map (composite).gif|this the image you say isn't on the wiki]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:44, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That "it is not providing a lot of useful information for the reader" and that it is "trivia" is merely your subjective opinion as one individual reader. Your personal opinion is not representative for the opinion of all the readers of this wiki and frankly I do not write content to please you, but content that could be interesting and not considered to be "trivia" for a lot of other readers. Christopher Tolkien wrote extensively in the History of The Lord of the Rings series books about how the geography of Middle-earth changed when one compares the various maps, so he certainly did not consider changes in geography to be "trivia". There are Tolkien fans that are enthusiastic about Tolkien's maps and map making as can be seen in the Other Minds Magazine or in the posts on the Other Minds facebook group Facebook page. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 19:28, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Do you have access to a copy of The History of The Lord of the Rings, Part 2, The Treason of Isengard? Have you ever looked at the First Map of the Lord of the Rings? If you look at page 299 to page 301, page 302, page 303, page 305 page 309 and compare it with the map that you asked me about, you can see that the map you asked my about is a combination of the maps on page 302, page 303, page 305 and page 309 and that those are merely redrawn maps that Christopher Tolkien redrew from The First Map of the Lord of the Rings and if you have looked on the First Map of the Lord of the Rings includes lots of details, which are not included on the redrawn maps. And no, the First Map of the Lord of the Rings has not been uploaded to the Tolkien Gateway wiki. The First Map of the Lord of the Rings can be found with the following URL https://thetolkienist.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/first-map-of-Lord-of-the-Rings_web.jpg The maps on the Tolkien Estate website can be found with the following URL https://www.tolkienestate.com/en/painting/maps/maps.html --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 19:28, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::Yes. What is wrong with the redrawn map by Christopher Tolkien? It has the same detail, does it not? What about that image lacks the detail you need for the Umbar article? I am enthusiastic about maps, too, and I can assure you I am ''extremely'' knowledgeable about Tolkien fandom, but what is the actual analysis or information you are providing here? You are describing the changes referred to by Christopher above, you are literally just describing a static object. Talking about the changes and what they mean would be genuinely useful information. <br />
::::Also, can you please include more punctuation in your sentences. I think it is contributing to your messages sounding rude, which I hope isn't your intention. Thanks. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
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==Artwork which I uploaded==<br />
I was wondering, is there any specific reason why you deleted all artwork by A-denn, and others which I clearly provided evidence of consent on the part of the authors?<br />
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Also - what about [[:Category:Images by Eva Zahradníková|Eva Zahradníková]], whose artwork is still featured on this site, yet a number of it was deleted by you? -- [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 12:40, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:It was three months ago so I honestly cannot recall. Undoubtedly there was a reason for removing those ones. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::About A-denn's artwork (for example, 'Makar and Measse') specifically, perhaps it was the fact that I uploaded it under 'A-Denn' instead of 'A-denn'. Can you check it out, if you find time? -- [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 18:09, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
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: P.S. What's up with the font? Is it just me, or has there been a change? -- [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 12:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC) <br />
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::I enlarged it at the request of [[User:LorenzoCB]] who said that it is too small. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:27, 23 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
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==Capitalization==<br />
Hi, the subcategories in [[:Category:Titles]] remain wrongly capitalized. Can you move them, please? --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 13:50, 1 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:Unfortunately not. In our version of the software it is not possible to move a category. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:37, 2 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::Oh, I thought categories could be edited with the bot. I'll see if I do it manually then and revise things by the way. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:43, 3 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:::The bot can be used to change the categories on an article, but can't be used to change the category pages themselves. I can bot the former part of this, if you like? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:22, 3 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::That's what I meant with moving them. Just change the categories in the articles with the correct one and delete the former ones. Sorry, I assumed this was the usual. No hurry at all, but if I don't point this now I would forget it. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 19:12, 3 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:::::OK, so Cloudfare is stopping the bot from working properly so I did this manually. But in the process spotted that this is a total mess between [[:C:Titles]], [[:C:Rulers]], and [[:Category:Positions and Occupations]]. So this needs work! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 09:35, 21 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Nice work! Holly molly, I had never spotted those categories. In a first sight I'd suggest to remove "Rulers", as it is redundant and "Titles" is more properly applied; and to change "Positions and occupations" to simply "Occupations". And we also have [[:Category:Epithets]], which I wished to revise at some point. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:10, 21 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Info boxes ==<br />
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I have a simple, stupid question. How do you create an info box for a personal user page? <br />
Many thanks! --[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 16:58, 23 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
:You use [[Template:User infobox]]. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:16, 27 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== TolkienGateway Chat ==<br />
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I was curious about this application, but I am having difficulty accessing it. Could you help direct me?--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 17:42, 9 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:Seems it is fallen since long ago. Mith, it would be nice to delete that page, it also confused me when I first saw it. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 08:21, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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== Melko ==<br />
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I've noticed that many articles have the word 'Melko' in them. I am assuming that it means Melkor, but nowhere that I have read in Tolkien's books does he name him as 'Melko.' What's up with this? Is it a spelling error?--[[User:Erónèhire|Erónèhire]] 03:59, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:''Melko'' is the early [[Qenya]] name used by Tolkien in earlier versions of the [[Legendarium]]. You may notice that this and other spellings (like ''Earendel'' instead of ''Earendil'') are used in articles or sections dealing with ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]'' or other earlier texts. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 08:21, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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:: Ah, thank you! I had forgotten about the Quenyan roots.</div>
Erónèhire