Forums:"Planification" of the BoLT: Difference between revisions

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::Also, I think, it would be good to have a C:Characters/Locations/etc in The Lord of the Rings drafts. - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 22:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
::Also, I think, it would be good to have a C:Characters/Locations/etc in The Lord of the Rings drafts. - [[User:IvarTheBoneless|IvarTheBoneless]] 22:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
:::Perhaps there should also be a C:Characters In The Notion Club Papers and C:Locations In The Notion Club Papers. I feel like characters in older drafts of The Lord of The Rings could stay in the current category page for that. I think that there should probably not be too many category pages. There probably should not be a category page for every version of ''The Children of Hurin'' or ''The Lord of the Rings'', for instance. Stuff like what version a character and location is in should go in the page for that subject. --[[User:Dour1234|Dour1234]], 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 00:19, 14 May 2022

Tolkien Gateway > Forums > "Planification" of the BoLT

On user LorenzoCB's behest, I give here my proposal for the organization of the categories dealing with the early legendarium:

  • In regards to geography:
    • Category:Great Lands, since the term Middle-earth didn't exist yet in the BoLT, and the fact that there is a lot of places in The Book of Lost Tales and associated writings which fit this category

All of which brings me to a more important point, which is: what counts as the "early legendarium" vs. "later legendarium"? Where does one begin and the other end?

Personally, I would say that we should split it thus:

  • "Middle" legendarium, which, if I had to split the legendarium in two (early and later), would lean more toward

P.S. I'd like to also propose a Category:English that would include the Category:Anglo-Saxons and Category:Angles, as well as most of the characters in The Notion Club Papers and The Lost Road.

P.P.S. This is just a preliminary idea, I'm just waiting for feedback. - IvarTheBoneless 23:18, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Aiya! First of all, I thank you for the work you are making with TBOLT matter. It is very well done and I'd give you a medal if we had something of that kind.
My first impressions: I disagree with the idea of using "early/middle/later legendarium" as proper categories. I've always used "early/later" as a mere indicative of what became before or later. Deciding which belongs to a specific period is impossible. For example, I feel that the first Lays already conform a very different phase in the legendarium. However, I'm open to expanding the matter of TBOLT as it has been done so far, creating new cats like "C:Languages in TBOLT" or "C:Locations in TBOLT" (this later would be useful for places only appearing there). What can we do with legendarium after TBOLT? Idk, I feel that there is not so much material as in TBOLT for each work to have its own sub-wiki via categorization.
In general, I agree with the specific categories you propose above; if things are classified in their own terms, it's great. However, I feel that we first need better articles on the main topics, specially languages and races. In some cases we could have separated articles instead of redirects to later versions, as we already do with Gnomish/Gnomes. I don't see the need for "Category:Rulers in Valinor", specially with the early legendarium; what's your idea with it? Avoiding "C:Rulers in Aman" for early legendarium? "C:Rulers in Tol Eressëa should be enough. Also, maybe "C:Rulers in Luthany" and "C:Rulers in the Great Lands" could be merged together?
Better "Category:English (people(s?))" ("Englishes"?), to avoid confusion with the language. Are Anglo-Saxons actually "English"? Isn't that term modern? --LorenzoCB 20:53, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
I like where you're going with this - periodizing the Legendarium would be a valuable enterprise. Maybe naming segments after years or significant works would be better than "Early" "Middle" etc. --Mord 15:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, Lorenzo! And yes, I agree with you and Mord about not labeling categories as early/middle/late legendarium. I was just trying to find a useful and consistent way of categorizing the BoLT. Also, since I already included many characters that don't appear in the BoLT per se in the Category:Characters in The Book of Lost Tales, do you think that I should leave them there or move them to some other category?
That said, in regards to the more specific suggestions by you, "C:Languages in TBOLT" or "C:Locations in TBOLT" - I agree, they would be useful. In regards to the legendarium after the BoLT, I feel that C:Characters/Locations/etc in The Lay of Leithian or The Lay of the Children of Hurin might be a good idea. Maybe even C:Characters/Locations/etc in the early Silmarillion - that is, Quenta Noldorinwa and the 1937 Quenta; perhaps that category could even include associated texts, such as the Lhammas, Ambarkanta, and the Etymologies.
Perhaps the C:Characters/Locations/etc in The Silmarillion could be moved to, say, C:Characters/Locations/etc in The Silmarillion (1977).
As to the C:Rulers in Valinor - yes, I believe it could replace C:Rulers in Aman, since other areas of Aman, such as Avathar and Araman, don't really matter in that regard. And C:Rulers in Tol Eressea can stand on its own, with both this and C:Rulers in Valinor being under C:Aman.
C:Rulers in Luthany and C:Rulers in the Great Lands should be under one category, yes.
In regards to the C:English, maybe it would be better if it was C:English (in-universe), but yes, the term "English" very much applies to the Anglo-Saxon period (in fact, Déor in Ælfwine of England is called an Englishman). Also, the term "English" applies to the people of England too, so I believe it can stand as it is. - IvarTheBoneless 18:01, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Also, I think, it would be good to have a C:Characters/Locations/etc in The Lord of the Rings drafts. - IvarTheBoneless 22:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Perhaps there should also be a C:Characters In The Notion Club Papers and C:Locations In The Notion Club Papers. I feel like characters in older drafts of The Lord of The Rings could stay in the current category page for that. I think that there should probably not be too many category pages. There probably should not be a category page for every version of The Children of Hurin or The Lord of the Rings, for instance. Stuff like what version a character and location is in should go in the page for that subject. --Dour1234, 13 May 2022 (UTC)