Talk:The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

Name

Should this page be called Amazon's Middle earth series instead of The Lord of the Rings (TV series)?I am saying that because we don't have an official name for the upcoming tv show.--User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου 10:29, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Whatever the name of the show will be, the article name will change accordingly so don't worry about it too much. Also thank you for working on some of the ancillary articles. --Gaetano 19:49, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Cast

I don't think that we have names of the characters played by the actors so why is characters written in the tilte of the section?--Shivam 01:56, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Images

Hi. I'm quite happy seeing this article being updated collectively. However, I think the matter of the images is getting a little over the top. It is quite unnecessary having the 23 posters, which will never be used in the wiki. I'm keeping them for the time being, but if Mith agrees, I'd vote keeping just a few of them. On the Vanity Fair's photos, I'll delete them all, because those belong to Vanity Fair, not to Amazon, so I don't know if they fall into fair use and if they actually portray the vision of the series. "Dress me slowly, I am in a hurry". --LorenzoCB 00:02, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Εnrichment

I think that this page should be enriched with more information about it's production and not only that.So, what do you think?--User:Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου 12:32, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Amazon does have behind the scenes interviews with the cast and crew on YouTube if that is what you mean.Dour1234 (talk) 12:46, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Deviations

As I have read generally, this series has a lot of deviations from Tolkien's works, and as a result, it reminds Tolkien's world only in words.I mean, almost all of these events that happens do not remind in events that happens in Tolkien's works.So, what do you think? --Γιάννης Ευαγγελίου (talk) 23:07, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

As stated below, entire sections devoted to deviations from the source material have been added to the pages relating to the movies. Not allowing the information to be added to this page makes the article appear biased and gives a false impression to the audience that the series is totally accurate in every point.

Please restore this section. English Lady (talk) 20:34, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I have read Tolkien’s works, and know of his lore fairly well. I have, to my own chagrin, watched Rings of Power, and I can with all honesty, that it is Tolkien in name only.

The actions, attitudes, and motivations for the characters holding the names of those Tolkien created are either a complete antithesis to the source or so inaccurately written for this show, that there is no direct connection or correlation to the source from which it is derived. Raziel (talk) 05:48, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

@English Lady, I see your point now. Still, you are missing the scope. The deviations are not listed in the main article of The Lord of the Rings (film series), but in each film's article. We must do the same with the series and list the deviations in each episode; otherwise it would be overloaded. Another option would be including a brief summary of its relation with the source material or its reception among the fans on this matter. Assuming the series are accurate because we don't have such a list is simply stupid.--LorenzoCB (talk) 07:08, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Adding it the "reception" section gives the impression that the deviations from the source material are not real, and are just the personal opinions of people who don't like the series.

The Lord of the Rings film series page is not the one listed under the Adaptions section, but rather the respective pages for each movie. It is not, in fact, "stupid" to assume that readers will conclude RIngs of Power is accurate if they do not see anything about deviations from the source material, especially if they have not read the books. English Lady (talk) 07:41, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Deviations from the Source Material

@English Lady Hi! Instead of listing each episode and the differences between the source material here, what are your thoughts on moving these statements to their respective episode articles? If we want to include a few major overarching differences here that span multiple episodes, that seems fine, but otherwise all the details would likely be better suited on the episode articles. Hyarion (talk) 19:15, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I disagree with this. I only say this because the pages relating to the movies have had entire sections added relating to the deviations from source material. Removing this from the page gives the (false) impression that Rings of Power does not deviate from the source material at all, and makes the article appear partisan. This will be most people's first line of reference and they will not bother to look at the seperate episodes, again, giving the false impression the series is 100% lore accurate. English Lady (talk) 20:32, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

@LorenzoCB has determined that no such information can be added to the Rings of Power page, even though I have clearly demonstrated that there are seperate subsections on each of the pages for the movies, which do not provide references or citations. Are you happy with this, or do you disagree with his descision. English Lady (talk) 07:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Also, please, don't remove Season's 2 cast. Definitely, the differences are much better disclosed in each episode's article. You can see people already began doing that work. --LorenzoCB (talk) 19:43, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Again, I think they should be listed on the main page because most people will not click over to the pages for each episode. Removing them from the main page gives readers the wrong impression that the series does not deviate from the lore in any way.

Also the way in which devations from lore are described as not neutral and is misleading in places. For example what is clearly supposed to depict Finrod taking the Oath of Feanor is excused as "just an oath to fight Sauron which he might have taken". English Lady (talk) 20:46, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Like I said, we can keep a section that lists the biggest overarching differences between the books and the show, but aspects that are specific to an individual episode should be listed on the specific episode articles, both for readability and because that is the most relevant article to put the information. It's easy to add a disclaimer that additional differences can be found on their respective episode articles. Hyarion (talk) 21:00, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

OK I can do that if you like..... English Lady (talk) 21:03, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

If you are worried about losing what you have written, you can find it here. The Oath of Fëanor is not mentioned in the series, so we cannot include it directly. Please, correct my edits and my grammar, but do not reverse them direcly. It's very rude, specially me being an admin. --LorenzoCB (talk) 21:12, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Although it is not explicitly mentioned, it is obvious that this event is meant to be the Oath of Feanor as it takes places before the Noldor leave Valinor and Sauron is not mentioned in that part of the narrative. Only Melkor, and their desire to fight him is mentioned. It is clearly supposed to be the Oath of Feanor. English Lady (talk) 21:22, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

As to the latter, my initial edits were removed without a reason being given. Considering that you have a known bias in favour of Rings of Power on other social media sites, it can only be assumed this descsion was partisan. English Lady (talk) 21:24, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

So just to clarify, if I mention ANY deviations from the source material on your Rings of Power page they will be removed? How do you feel about this @Hyarion? Should people not be allowed to mention these? English Lady (talk) 21:34, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

We are telling you: the main article is not the place to list deviations. If any, the section of "Reception" could deal with the criticism done against RoP due its bad treatment of the source material (citing appropiate references, oc). What makes people think TG is biased in favor of RoP? We deal with this authorized adaptation as with any other else. I think we have a very poor implementation of this adaptation throughout the wiki; there are a lot of things to expand. For my part I despise this show and I haven't even watched it. LorenzoCB (talk) 22:33, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

The respective pages for the movies all have sections headed "Deviations from source material". None of the content in these sections contains citations or references. I have provided links to show you.

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers#Deviations from the source material

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King#Deviations from the source material

So I ask, again, why are you demanding that no such content be added to the Rings of Power page, and that everything be referenced when you have added such content to other pages, without references? Why the double standard? Are you just trying to censor any criticism of Rings of Power, because it sure looks like that.

Adding this content to the "reception" section makes it seem like personal opinion rather than fact. I will again refer you to the fact that the articles for the movies have clearly marked sections highlighting deviations and changes, you your refusal to allow such content to be added for Rings of Power can only be taken as evidence of your bias and desire to exercise censhorship.

@Hyarion how you do feel about this? English Lady (talk) 07:16, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

I answered this on the section above. The films have a main article, and it doesn't deal with deviations, but each separated film's article. We must do the same with the series' episodes. It's not double standard, on the contrary, keeping the same format. Otherwise we'd be overloading the main article. If I demand references is just to the particular matter of the reception, which is not the same as a mere comparison, which doesn't need much, although references to the books should be always detailed, including those in the comparisons of the PJ films. A brief summary on the series' relation with the source materials could be added to the RoP article tho. LorenzoCB (talk) 07:45, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Note that the page for each epsiode of Rings of Power has nothing under the "differences" heading. It is blank. In other words, no attempt has been made to highlight the deviations from the source material in more than 8 months. Why would that be?

I am frankly concerned about filling in these section as I think you will remove any content for entirely arbitrary reasons based on your personal love for Rings of Power. I should also not have to provide citations when you have not done so for the sections you added to the movies. English Lady (talk) 07:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

I am frankly concerned that it seems that you have a tendency to speculate. You seem to speculate about LorenzoCB's reasons for deleting content or what readers will think if something is not present on a particular page. You do not have a magic crystal ball that allows you to read other people's minds especially not the minds of all readers of Tolkien Gateway to know what they will think or assume if they read a page. --Akhôrahil (talk) 08:17, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Its not speculation. I am in many circles of Tolkien fandom, and can already see that ideas from Rings of Power have taken told. Many people are now going around saying Galadriel got her magical powers from Nenya, for example. Many don't read the books and rely on pages like this for their info. Another admin already raised concerns about errors in the movies wrongly shaping people's perceptions of lore and canon, and I have observed Rings of Power is doing the same thing. This page should be a reliable source of accurate information- not something which reinforces misimformation.

Also, I have encountered Lorenzo on at least one other social media page, and there he showed a very consistent love for Rings of Power. Even to the point of harrassing people critical of the series. This shows in the tone of some of his edits, which don't openly mention deviations from the source material and opt to use more "positive" langauge. English Lady (talk) 08:38, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

That's what I meant with the poor implementation of RoP in the wiki. There is a lot of work to do in the wiki, and RoP is the minor of all. But please, fill freely all the sections of Deviations in the episodes. It would be better if you add references, but if not, at least we'll have something to start with. Stop saying we favor this show. I hate it, but things must be done properly. Imagine if each user edited according to their own standards. LorenzoCB (talk) 08:19, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

I just expanded a little the "Differences" section of A Shadow of the Past, including references as it should be. If expanded more, we could make some subsections. I also think we need an article for "Season One", which could include a section on overall differences, like the obliteration of Second Age's chronology. What do you think @English_Lady? --LorenzoCB (talk) 15:19, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough, although the grammar wasn't great and I had to reword a lot of it for it to make sense in English. English Lady (talk) 15:13, 6 August 2023 (UTC)