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Talk:Oropher

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[edit] References

I was trying to looking this character up in The History of Middle-earth Index but I couldn't find his name listed at all. I also looked it up in the index of The Silmarillion, but couldn't find his name there either. I'm trying to find the reference to his fight at Last Alliance of Elves and Men. --Pinkkeith 14:56, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Unfinished Tales, "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn". In the discussion about Amdir/Malgalad. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:57, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Trim

I heavily trimmed the article, removing all collateral information. I took care not to remove any information, and moved everything to other articles that needed it. Sage 07:53, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Looks like you've done a good job! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 09:08, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

[edit] doriath?

where's the proof that he was an elf of doriath, as well as his son? --Kulid123 00:48, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Oropher was of Sindarin origin, and no doubt Thranduil his son was following the example of King Thingol long before, in Doriath; though his halls were not to be compared with Menegroth. He had not the arts nor wealth nor the aid of the Dwarves; and compared with the Elves of Doriath his Silvan folk were rude and rustic. Oropher had come among them with only a handful of Sindar, and they were soon merged with the Silvan Elves, adopting their language and taking names of Silvan form and style. This they did deliberately; for they (and other similar adventurers forgotten in the legends or only briefly named) came from Doriath after its ruin and had no desire to leave Middle-earth, nor to be merged with the other Sindar of Beleriand, dominated by the Noldorin Exiles for whom the folk of Doriath had no great love. They wished indeed to become Silvan folk and to return, as they said, to the simple life natural to the Elves before the invitation of the Valar had disturbed it.
J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Unfinished Tales, "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn", "Appendix B: The Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves"
Emphasis my own. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:09, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Ok thank you. I just wanted to know the source so thank you. However, in the Two Towers, Gimli states that Dwarves aided in the construction of the Elvenking's Halls but, in the above content, it states that Thranduil did NOT have the help of the dwarves. Which account is correct? --Kulid123 22:48, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
The dwarves didn't necessarily help in the construction of all the Elvenking's halls. --LorenzoCB 13:37, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

[edit] First or Second Age?

The above quote strongly suggests that Oropher migrated to Mirkwood in the First Age, shortly after the ruin of Doriath and not wanting to join the other Sindar of Beleriand. However in the App B it is suggested that these migrations happened in the Second Age, while many articles in the wiki say that Oropher departed from Lindon in the Second Age, to escape the Noldorin rulers. Is there some misunderstanding here, or conflicting essays by Tolkien?

After a brief scanning of UT I found no information that Oropher was an Elf of S.A. Lindon. Sage 01:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm not an expert on the Second Age, but reading about this I think somebody may have confused Lindon with Lórien. In UT:258 is explained that Oropher's people were related to the Elves of Lórien and lived in the south part of Greenwood the Great, but they migrated north in the Second Age to avoid both the Dwarves and the Lordship of Galadriel and Celeborn. No doubt that this migration is related with the wishes mentioned in the above quote of recovering a Silvan purity. --LorenzoCB 13:37, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
No no I don't talk about these events. I see now where is some problem. The App B says that in the SA High Elves from Lindon established forest realms in the east, and Thranduil was one of these; this context is assumed in the article of Oropher. However the UT excerpt in the above section suggests that Oropher migrated in the FA, soon after the ruin of Doriath: he left Beleriand (not Lindon) and the other Sindar, and went eastwards. However (if this interpretation is correct) this kinda contradicts what is said in App B (that the migrations were from S.A. Lindon to the forest realms). Sage 14:30, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Ah, true, I got confused. This requires some focused reading that I can't do know. --LorenzoCB 15:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC)