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Talk:Of Beren and Lúthien

(Difference between revisions)
(A note on the chapter summary for this page, and a justification of the length of the article.)
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This article says that it needs to be rewritten to comply to higher standards. I'd be glad to help with any revisions to small errors in details or poor writing quality, but I am relatively new here and don't know if this is what needs to be done. Any specifics? --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 00:38, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 
This article says that it needs to be rewritten to comply to higher standards. I'd be glad to help with any revisions to small errors in details or poor writing quality, but I am relatively new here and don't know if this is what needs to be done. Any specifics? --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 00:38, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
  
:The admin who included that indication explained that the text needs a better prose. I think it is because the summary here fails in some points of [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style#Terminology]]. I think you have been cleaning the article quite well. If you want to help with ''The Silmarillion'' chapter summaries, they need to be strictly about the 1977 book and not mixing other versions of the Legendarium (and I'm not sure if this article does this right), following the structure and vocabulary of the text, but without paraphrasing. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 07:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
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:The admin who included that indication explained that the text needs a better prose. I think it is because the summary here fails in some points of [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style#Terminology]]. I think you have been cleaning the article quite well. If you want to help with ''The Silmarillion'' chapter summaries, they need to be strictly about the 1977 book and not mixing other versions of the legendarium (and I'm not sure if this article does this right), following the structure and vocabulary of the text, but without paraphrasing. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 07:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
  
 
::Thank you so much. A couple of quick questions on clarification: Is there a significant difference between the 1977 Silmarillion and the second edition? I currently only have the second edition, but can certainly acquire the 1977 version if this is important. Also, when you say follow the structure and vocabulary without paraphrasing, I assume you mean rewrite it so it is not copied from the original text, but maintain the style? Sorry, the without paraphrasing part confused me a bit. Thank you again for your patience. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 16:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 
::Thank you so much. A couple of quick questions on clarification: Is there a significant difference between the 1977 Silmarillion and the second edition? I currently only have the second edition, but can certainly acquire the 1977 version if this is important. Also, when you say follow the structure and vocabulary without paraphrasing, I assume you mean rewrite it so it is not copied from the original text, but maintain the style? Sorry, the without paraphrasing part confused me a bit. Thank you again for your patience. --[[User:Grace18|Grace18]] 16:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
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I've rewritten this article, providing a detailed synopsis and (tried to!) write in a "Tolkien-esque" prose. Though it is quite a bit longer than the other articles on "chapters of The Silmarillion". If the length is a major problem, then perhaps we could move a lot of the details to the article "Quest for the Silmaril", and make this one a bit of a shorter summary to fall in line with the other Silmarillion chapters. Although, if any Silmarillion chapter summaries were going to be longer than others, I'd say that this one, "Of Túrin Turambar", and "Of the Fall of Gondolin" would be the ones (just because these are the longer stories, and so will require longer articles to do them justice). Please let me know your thoughts on this. I'm sure there's still tidying to do in this article too! If others are happy, then I shall remove the "rewrite" and "claimed" tags. Thanks! --[[User:GondolinFan|GondolinFan]] 23:42, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 
I've rewritten this article, providing a detailed synopsis and (tried to!) write in a "Tolkien-esque" prose. Though it is quite a bit longer than the other articles on "chapters of The Silmarillion". If the length is a major problem, then perhaps we could move a lot of the details to the article "Quest for the Silmaril", and make this one a bit of a shorter summary to fall in line with the other Silmarillion chapters. Although, if any Silmarillion chapter summaries were going to be longer than others, I'd say that this one, "Of Túrin Turambar", and "Of the Fall of Gondolin" would be the ones (just because these are the longer stories, and so will require longer articles to do them justice). Please let me know your thoughts on this. I'm sure there's still tidying to do in this article too! If others are happy, then I shall remove the "rewrite" and "claimed" tags. Thanks! --[[User:GondolinFan|GondolinFan]] 23:42, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
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:I appreciate your efforts, and I agree this and "Of Túrin Turambar" should be longer than the other chapter synopsis (not the case with "Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin"), but I find it too longer now. Also, "tolkien-esque" prose doesn't help to keep things concise as in a proper synopsis. I'd avoid things like "thus began the greatest of" and writing about small details and explanations. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:36, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 09:36, 4 December 2021

This article says that it needs to be rewritten to comply to higher standards. I'd be glad to help with any revisions to small errors in details or poor writing quality, but I am relatively new here and don't know if this is what needs to be done. Any specifics? --Grace18 00:38, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

The admin who included that indication explained that the text needs a better prose. I think it is because the summary here fails in some points of Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style#Terminology. I think you have been cleaning the article quite well. If you want to help with The Silmarillion chapter summaries, they need to be strictly about the 1977 book and not mixing other versions of the legendarium (and I'm not sure if this article does this right), following the structure and vocabulary of the text, but without paraphrasing. --LorenzoCB 07:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much. A couple of quick questions on clarification: Is there a significant difference between the 1977 Silmarillion and the second edition? I currently only have the second edition, but can certainly acquire the 1977 version if this is important. Also, when you say follow the structure and vocabulary without paraphrasing, I assume you mean rewrite it so it is not copied from the original text, but maintain the style? Sorry, the without paraphrasing part confused me a bit. Thank you again for your patience. --Grace18 16:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
No, there is no textual difference in the second edition of The Silmarillion (except the Foreword, which is not important now). With "1977" I just meant The Silmarillion as edited by Christopher Tolkien, because there are other verions of the Quenta Silmarillion throughout The History of Middle-earth. About rewriting: yep, we can't directly copy the text, unless there is a beautiful sentence, which should be included between quotation marks. Thank you for your contributions. --LorenzoCB 21:37, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

I've rewritten this article, providing a detailed synopsis and (tried to!) write in a "Tolkien-esque" prose. Though it is quite a bit longer than the other articles on "chapters of The Silmarillion". If the length is a major problem, then perhaps we could move a lot of the details to the article "Quest for the Silmaril", and make this one a bit of a shorter summary to fall in line with the other Silmarillion chapters. Although, if any Silmarillion chapter summaries were going to be longer than others, I'd say that this one, "Of Túrin Turambar", and "Of the Fall of Gondolin" would be the ones (just because these are the longer stories, and so will require longer articles to do them justice). Please let me know your thoughts on this. I'm sure there's still tidying to do in this article too! If others are happy, then I shall remove the "rewrite" and "claimed" tags. Thanks! --GondolinFan 23:42, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

I appreciate your efforts, and I agree this and "Of Túrin Turambar" should be longer than the other chapter synopsis (not the case with "Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin"), but I find it too longer now. Also, "tolkien-esque" prose doesn't help to keep things concise as in a proper synopsis. I'd avoid things like "thus began the greatest of" and writing about small details and explanations. --LorenzoCB 09:36, 4 December 2021 (UTC)