Talk:Luck

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Revision as of 10:22, 11 September 2021 by LorenzoCB (talk | contribs) (Proposal for deletion)

Latest comment: 11 September 2021 by LorenzoCB in topic Detetion
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Concerning whether the quote works

I think it does, since Gandalf is referring to luck in saying, "You don't really suppose, do you, that all your adventures and escapes were managed by mere luck, just for your sole benefit?" I don not know how he would be referring to the Ring, except in the context of the films.-SingingOrc

In the original context he is not referring to the Ring at all, but the working of Providence. The Ring was not in focus in that part of the story. Btw, sign your name by adding four tildes ('~') at the end of your post so it gets your user signature and timestamp. Turiannerevarine 22:48, 9 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, I would agree with that. I was just confused as to why the user who writes under Oromë seemed to be saying otherwise. Gandalf is more specifically referring to how "luck" does not work to Bilbo's sole benefit, in spite of the fact that it seemed to be, as it can be seen even more clearly in The Lord of the Rings what the consequences might have been were it not for Bilbo's luck. It is an important theme in The Hobbit, which is why I thought it needed a page. Thank you for making me aware about signing my name. SingingOrc 00:48, 10 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Gandalf is actually saying that it wasn't mere luck that helped him, but rather that his adventures and escapres were a part of a bigger purpose (as Turiannerevarine refers to as providence) the led to the fulfillment of the prophecies. This is why I said it may not be the best quote to represent Bilbo's luck, because Gandalf is saying that the outcome wasn't actually due to luck. Also, the reason I added the cleanup tag was more because of the grammar and formatting of the article. --Oromë 01:23, 10 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I suppose. I think that is what Tolkien had in mind all along which is a concept he referred to as "luck".SingingOrc 03:03, 10 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think this page is necessary because whatever "luck" is, it is an important theme in The Hobbit. Now you could argue that it is not luck at all, but that is how the narrator refers to it and we are supposed to be objective here in our descriptions of concepts in Tolkien lore. That is my view anyway.SingingOrc 14:07, 10 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It is never called Providence anywhere in either the Hobbit or LOTR, but the concept of Eru working through indirect means to accomplish things is present in all of Tolkien's work. This is a recurring motif or theme. I am not sure if other recurring themes (like the Long Defeat) have their own article, but I don't see why they can't. "Luck" is a good enough title for it anyway.Turiannerevarine 17:55, 10 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, I agree with that—Eru, perhaps the also the Valar or through them. I think the concept of luck is important considering how often it is referred to, especially in The Hobbit. The Long Defeat is not referred to anywhere near as frequently (although I do not see why it should not have an article either). SingingOrc 20:36, 10 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
More to the point, I think the quote from Gandalf directly concerns the concept to which this article is devoted.

Detetion

I propose deleting this article. The topic is irrelevant and its content is more about Providence. Tolkien did not believed in luck or coincidences. --LorenzoCB 10:22, 11 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]