https://tolkiengateway.net/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=BartekChom&feedformat=atomTolkien Gateway - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T19:40:12ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.39.3https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Kinn-lai&diff=385876Kinn-lai2024-02-11T01:23:39Z<p>BartekChom: /* Etymology */ Avarin: All Six Words</p>
<hr />
<div>{{people infobox<br />
| name=Kinn-lai<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| origin=<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| rivalry=<br />
| language=one of the many [[Avarin]] languages<br />
| members=<br />
| lifespan=Immortal<br />
| distinctions=<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| skin=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
}}<br />
'''Kinn-lai''' were one of the only six tribes of the [[Avari]] mentioned.<br />
==Etymology==<br />
It is an [[Avarin]] word meaning "the People". It derives from [[Primitive Quendian]] ''[[kwende|kwendī]]''.<ref name=Author>{{WJ|Author}}, Note 9, p. 410</ref> The suffix ''-lai'' may be related to [[Quenya]]n ''[[lië]]'' "people", coming from the [[root]] LI (whence also Quenyan ''[[-li]]'') by A-infixion, attested in the primitive language.<ref>{{webcite|articleurl=https://folk.uib.no/hnohf/avarin.htm |articlename=Avarin: All Six Words|dated=|website=[[Ardalambion]] [https://ardalambion.net/]|accessed=2024-02-11}}: "The stem ''LI'', the source of Quenya ''lië'', may have produced '''lai''' by A-infixion (well attested in the primitive language)."</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[Kindi]]<br />
* [[Cuind]]<br />
* [[Hwenti]]<br />
* [[Windan]]<br />
* [[Penni]]<br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
<br />
'''1982-97: ''[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]'':'''<br />
: ''Kinn-lai'', an articulation of "Quendi" (the most ancient name of the Elves), is also the name of a tribe of Avari Elves of the jungles of the Mûmakan in the Utter South of Middle-earth.<ref>{{ICE|2026}}, p. 18</ref><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Avarin words]]<br />
[[Category:Avari]]<br />
[[Category:Elven peoples]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=-li&diff=385875-li2024-02-11T01:19:52Z<p>BartekChom: /* Etymology */ Compare ''-lai'' in ''Kinn-lai''.</p>
<hr />
<div>'''''-li''''' is a partitive plural ending in [[Quenya]], indicating "many, some, a lot of".<ref name=Eldarin>{{PE|Eldarin}}</ref>{{rp|62}}<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
[[Root]] LI-, meaning "many", from which ''[[lië]]'' also comes.<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, entry "LI-"</ref> Compare ''-lai'' in ''[[Kinn-lai]]''.<br />
<br />
==Examples==<br />
*''vanimá'''li'''on'' = genitive "of beautiful children"<ref>{{L|230}}, p. 308, cf. note 5</ref><br />
*i ''[[falma]]-'''li'''-nna-r'' = "the foam wave-many-towards-pl. ending"<ref name=Eldarin></ref>{{rp|127}}<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:li}}<br />
[[Category:Quenya suffixes]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Kinn-lai&diff=385874Kinn-lai2024-02-11T01:16:32Z<p>BartekChom: /* Etymology */ root LI according to Ardalambion</p>
<hr />
<div>{{people infobox<br />
| name=Kinn-lai<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| origin=<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| rivalry=<br />
| language=one of the many [[Avarin]] languages<br />
| members=<br />
| lifespan=Immortal<br />
| distinctions=<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| skin=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
}}<br />
'''Kinn-lai''' were one of the only six tribes of the [[Avari]] mentioned.<br />
==Etymology==<br />
It is an [[Avarin]] word meaning "the People". It derives from [[Primitive Quendian]] ''[[kwende|kwendī]]''.<ref name=Author>{{WJ|Author}}, Note 9, p. 410</ref> The suffix ''-lai'' may be related to [[Quenya]]n ''[[lië]]'' "people", coming from the [[root]] LI (whence also Quenyan ''[[-li]]'') by A-infixion, attested in the primitive language.<ref>{{webcite|articleurl=https://folk.uib.no/hnohf/avarin.htm |articlename=Avarin|dated=|website=[[Ardalambion]] [https://ardalambion.net/]|accessed=2024-02-11}}: "The stem ''LI'', the source of Quenya ''lië'', may have produced '''lai''' by A-infixion (well attested in the primitive language)."</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[Kindi]]<br />
* [[Cuind]]<br />
* [[Hwenti]]<br />
* [[Windan]]<br />
* [[Penni]]<br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
<br />
'''1982-97: ''[[Middle-earth Role Playing]]'':'''<br />
: ''Kinn-lai'', an articulation of "Quendi" (the most ancient name of the Elves), is also the name of a tribe of Avari Elves of the jungles of the Mûmakan in the Utter South of Middle-earth.<ref>{{ICE|2026}}, p. 18</ref><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Avarin words]]<br />
[[Category:Avari]]<br />
[[Category:Elven peoples]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Raug&diff=385171Raug2024-01-27T18:00:00Z<p>BartekChom: Compare Rog</p>
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<div>__NOTOC__<br />
'''''raug''''' or '''''rog''''' is a [[Sindarin]] word meaning '[[demons|demon]]'.<ref>{{S|Appendix}}, ''rauko''</ref><br />
<br />
Compare the name of [[Rog]], a [[Gnome]]-lord in Gondolin according to the early version of the [[legendarium]] in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''.<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
<br />
*[[Sundocarme|Root]] [[RUKU]]<br />
<br />
==Example==<br />
* [[Balrog]]<br />
<br />
==Cognates==<br />
<br />
*[[Quenya]] ''[[rauko]]''<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{title|lowercase}}<br />
[[Category:Sindarin nouns]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Rog_(disambiguation)&diff=385169Rog (disambiguation)2024-01-27T17:55:21Z<p>BartekChom: raug</p>
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<div>'''Rog''' can refer to:<br />
__NOTOC__<br />
* [[Rog the Fleet]], Orcs' name for [[Barahir|Egnor]]<br />
* '''[[Rog]], the name of an elf-lord of [[Gondolin]]'''<br />
* [[Rógin|Róg]], the [[Rohanese]] word for a [[Woses|Wose]]<br />
* ''rog'' or ''[[raug]]'', a [[Sindarin]] word meaning '[[demons|demon]]'<br />
{{disambig}}</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Rog&diff=385168Rog2024-01-27T17:52:33Z<p>BartekChom: /* Etymology */ raug</p>
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<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{disambig-more|Rog|[[Rog (disambiguation)]]}}<br />
{{noldor infobox<br />
| image=[[File:Natalie Chen - Rog.jpg|250px]]<br />
| name=Rog<br />
| caption="Rog" by [[:Category:Images by Natalie Chen|Natalie Chen]]<br />
| people=[[Gnomes|Gnome]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=''Rôg'' ([[Gnomish|G]]), ''Rōka'' ([[Qenya|Q]])<br />
| titles=Lord of the [[house of the Hammer of Wrath]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Gondolin]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=<br />
| deathlocation=[[Fall of Gondolin]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of the Hammer of Wrath]]<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=Long handled mace<ref name="LT2"/>{{rp|179}}<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''Rog''' was the [[Gnome]]-lord of the [[House of the Hammer of Wrath|people of the Hammer of Wrath]] in Gondolin according to the early version of the [[legendarium]] in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''.<br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
Rog was a blacksmith, and chief of the [[House of the Hammer of Wrath|folk of the Hammer of Wrath]]. He was considered the strongest of the [[Noldoli]], and was like considered third greatest in valour.<ref name="LT2">{{LT2|III}}</ref>{{rp|174}}<br />
<br />
During the [[Fall of Gondolin]], he led his people against the attack of [[Balrogs]] and [[Orcs]] in the northern gate. When the gate was broken, he stirred his kindred against the Balrogs with words of passion, and though many were slain, they slew a number of the fiery creatures "that... was a marvel and dread to the hosts of [[Melko]], for ere that day never had any Balrogs been slain by the hand of Elves or Men". Seeing that they had no way back, Rog rushed his men outside the city, where the folk of the Hammer were hemmed in, and every one of them perished, including him.<ref name="LT2"/>{{rp|178-9}}<br />
<br />
== Etymology ==<br />
The name ''Rog'', in earlier writings ''Rôg'', seems curious as a name for an elf-lord of Gondolin: no other one-syllable names appear in other writings.<br />
<br />
The meaning or etymology of the name is unclear, and in the context of the later works it would mean "Demon" (cf. ''[[raug]]''), in [[Sindarin]], as an element in ''[[Balrog]]''.<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, entry "[[RUK]]"</ref><ref>{{WJ|P4}}, p. 415</ref> But the early ''[[Gnomish Lexicon]]'' gives an adjective: ''rôg'', ''rog'' ("doughty, strong"), related with ''arog'' ("swift, rushing") and ''raug'' of the same meaning.<ref>{{LT2|Appendix}}, entry "Rog"</ref> The [[Qenya]] form of his name was ''Rōka''.<ref>{{PE|13}}, p. 104</ref><br />
<br />
== Other versions of the legendarium ==<br />
Rog's death "without the walls" is mentioned in the ''[[Quenta Noldorinwa]]'',<ref>{{SM|Quenta}}, p. 144</ref> which was the main text used by [[Christopher Tolkien]] for his edition of the chapter "[[Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin]]" within ''[[The Silmarillion]]''. However, Christopher removed the mention of this character, explaining that his father would likely not have used that out of phase name.<ref>{{LT2|IIIn}}, p. 211, footnote</ref><br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [[Enerdhil]], a legendary jewel-smith of Gondolin<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{HousesofGondolin}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Book of Lost Tales]]<br />
[[Category:Gnomes]]<br />
[[Category:Gnomish names]]<br />
[[Category:Gondolindrim]]<br />
[[Category:Smiths]]<br />
[[de:Rog]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/noldor/rog]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ausir_(boy)&diff=385044Ausir (boy)2024-01-23T22:06:09Z<p>BartekChom: Dior#The_Book_of_Lost_Tales</p>
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<div>{{disambig-two|a boy in an early version of the [[legendarium]]|name of [[Dior]]|[[Dior#The_Book_of_Lost_Tales|Ausir]]}}<br />
{{elves infobox<br />
| image=<br />
| name=Ausir<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Tol Eressëa]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=<br />
| heritage=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
<br />
}}<br />
'''Ausir''' was an [[Elf]] of [[Tol Eressëa]] according to the early version of the [[legendarium]] in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''. He was one of the children in the [[Cottage of Lost Play]], and he told [[Eriol]] of the fate of [[Huan]] the Hound, and revealed to him that the old man whose guidance brought him to the Lonely Isle was none other than [[Ulmo]] himself. He argued with [[Vëannë]], suggesting [[Qenya|elvish]] names ''[[Thingol|Tinwë Linto]]'' and ''[[Melian|Wendelin]]'' instead of [[Gnomish]] ''Tinwelint'' and ''Gwendeling''.<ref>{{LT2|I}}, pp. 5-8</ref><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{title}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Book of Lost Tales]]<br />
[[Category:Gnomes]]<br />
[[fi:Ausir]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ausir_(disambiguation)&diff=385043Ausir (disambiguation)2024-01-23T22:05:39Z<p>BartekChom: Dior#The_Book_of_Lost_Tales</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Ausir''' might refer to:<br />
<br />
*'''[[Dior#The_Book_of_Lost_Tales|Ausir]]''', a name for Dior used in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''<br />
*'''[[Ausir (boy)]]''', the name of a boy appearing in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''<br />
<br />
{{disambig}}<br />
[[Category:Gnomish names]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Orom%C3%AB&diff=385042Oromë2024-01-23T21:05:26Z<p>BartekChom: /* Other versions of the legendarium */ Nessa was already his sister; see Valarindi, Children of the Valar</p>
<hr />
<div>{{expansion}}<br />
{{valar infobox<br />
| name=Oromë<br />
| image=[[File:Ralph Damiani - Orome.png|250px]]<br />
| caption="Orome" by [[:Category:Images by Ralph Damiani|Ralph Damiani]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=''Arōmēz'' ([[Valarin|V]])</br>''Araw'' ([[Sindarin|S]])<br />''Arum'' ([[North Sindarin|NS]])<br />''Aldaron'' ([[Quenya|Q]])<br />''Tauron'' ([[Sindarin|S]])<br />''Béma'' ([[Rohirrim|R]])<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=Lord of Forests<br />
| location=[[House of Oromë]], [[Woods of Oromë]]<br />
| affiliation=The [[Valar]]<br />
| language=<br />
| notablefor=discovering the [[Elves]]<br />
| siblings=[[Nessa]]<br />
| spouse=[[Vána]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=Spear and bow<br />
| steed=[[Nahar]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Quote|Oromë is a mighty lord. If he is less strong than [[Tulkas]], he is more dreadful in anger.|''[[The Silmarillion]]'', "[[Valaquenta]]: Of the Valar"}}<br />
<br />
'''Oromë''' was a [[Valar|Vala]] and one of the [[Aratar]],<ref name=vala>{{S|IIb}}</ref> also known as the '''Huntsman of the Valar'''{{Fact}} and the '''Great Rider'''<ref name=Captivity>{{S|Captivity}}</ref>. He is considered one of the more powerful of the Valar.<ref name=vala/><br />
<br />
==Attributes==<br />
Oromë was a hunter of monsters and evil creatures, riding on his steed [[Nahar]], and blowing his great horn [[Valaróma]]. He loved [[horses]] and [[hounds]] as well as all trees and forests. In [[Yavanna]]'s woods in [[Valinor]], he trained his folk and beasts to hunt the evil creatures of Melkor.<ref name=vala/> He hunted all foul beasts of Morgoth, and when he blew his horn, all would know that the woods had been purged.<ref>{{S|Sindar}}</ref> Oromë was known for his terrible wrath, in contrast to [[Tulkas]], who laughed often.<ref name=vala/><br />
<br />
Oromë was the brother of [[Nessa]] and the husband of [[Vána]].<ref name=vala/><br />
<br />
==History==<br />
[[File:Kip Rasmussen - Orome Hunts the Monsters of Morgoth.jpg|thumb|left|''Orome Hunts the Monsters of Morgoth'' by Kip Rasmussen]]<br />
During the [[Years of the Trees]], after most of the Valar had withdrawn completely from Middle-earth and hidden themselves in [[Aman]], Oromë was the last who came to Valinor, and even then he still hunted in the forests of Middle-earth on occasion.<ref name=vala/> He visited [[Middle-earth]] during the [[Sleep of Yavanna]], hunting monsters and fell creatures and the shadows fled temporarily until he left.<ref name=s1>{{S|Days}}</ref><br />
<br />
Thus, he was responsible for finding the [[Elves]] when they awoke at [[Cuiviénen]], and was the first to name them the [[Eldar]]. Seeking to ensure their safety, Oromë accompanied the Elves from Cuiviénen to [[Beleriand]]. Being a powerful huntsman, he was active in the struggles against [[Morgoth]], who feared Oromë in his anger. Morgoth went so far as to raise the [[Misty Mountains]] as an impediment to Oromë's riding.<ref name=Captivity/><br />
<br />
After the destruction of the Two Trees of Valinor, Oromë led his host in pursuit of Morgoth and [[Ungoliant]]. However, they were thwarted by Ungoliant's unlight.<ref name=Darkening>{{S|Darkening}}</ref><br />
<br />
Because Oromë was the only Vala who travelled in Middle-earth during the [[Elder Days]], it was believed, even during the [[Third Age]] that the wild [[cows|oxen]] found near the [[Sea of Rhun]] descended from his [[Kine of Araw|Kine]].<ref>{{App|South}}, Stewards of Gondor, footnote after Vorondil the Hunter, p. 1039</ref><br />
<br />
==Legacy==<br />
In the aftermath of the [[Dagor Bragollach]], [[Fingolfin]] rode to Angband alone to challenge Morgoth to single combat. Those who saw him thought Oromë himself had arrived; for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.<ref name=Ruin>{{S|Fingolfin}}</ref><br />
<br />
During the [[Battle of the Pelennor Fields]] in the [[Third Age]], King [[Théoden]] displayed a drive and ferocity comparable to that of Oromë.<ref>{{RK|Ride}}, p. 838</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
The name ''Oromë'' is said to be derived from his [[Valarin]] name '''''Arōmēz'''''.<ref name=Quendi>{{WJ|AD1}}, p. 400</ref> <br />
<br />
His name is translated as "Horn-blowing" and "Sound of Horns".<ref>{{PE|21}}, pp. 82, 85</ref><br />
<br />
===Other names===<br />
'''''Araw''''' was the [[Sindarin]] form of the name of the Oromë,<ref>{{PE|17}}, p. 96</ref><ref>{{VT|39a}}, p. 10</ref> while its [[North Sindarin]] form was '''''Arum'''''.<ref name=Quendi></ref> <br />
<br />
'''''Tauron''''' was an epithet used by the [[Sindar]] for Oromë.<ref name=Index>{{S|Index}}</ref><ref name=PM/> In the ''[[Valaquenta]]'', ''Tauron'' is translated as "Lord of Forests".<ref name=Index/> Another translation is "The Forester".<ref>{{S|Index}}</ref><ref name=PM>{{PM|XI}}, p. 358 (note 21)</ref> The language, to which the name pertains, remains non-explicit in [[Tolkien]]'s texts:<br />
#[[Quenya]] word? The root of the word could be ''[[taure]]'' ("great wood") plus the ending ''[[-on]]''. The name would thus have the sense "One of forests".<ref>Suggestion by [[User:Sage]]</ref><br />
#[[Sindarin]] word? This would be suggested by its usage among the Sindar and by the [[Noldorin]] form it replaced (see below).<br />
<br />
'''''Béma''''' was the name used by the [[Northmen]] for Oromë. As the great huntsman and horseman of the Valar, he and his steed Nahar were known to the horse-loving people of [[Rohan]], who claimed that their great horses, the [[Mearas]], had ancestors brought out of [[Aman|the West]] by Béma himself.<ref>{{App|Eorl}}</ref> <br />
The name ''Béma'' is also from the [[Rohanese|tongue of Rohan]] ([[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] was inspired by the [[Old English]] word ''[[Wiktionary:beme|béme]]'' "trumpet").<ref>{{PE|17}}, p. 153</ref><br />
<br />
Tolkien used at least two earlier forms of the by-name ''Tauron'':<br />
#''Tavros'' - the form ''Tauros'' replaced - used in such early texts as the ''[[Lay of Leithian]]''.<ref>{{HM|LB}}, ''passim''</ref> The name is [[Noldorin|Gnomish]], defined as "Chief wood fay 'the Blue Spirit of the Woods'".<ref>{{PE|11}}, p. 69</ref><ref>{{LT1|Appendix}}, p. 267</ref><ref group="note">The form ''Tavros'' cited here from the ''[[Parma Eldalamberon 11|Gnomish Lexicon]]'', is defined as a "proper name". The form ''tavros'' (with a minuscule ''t'') is defined as "forest, wooded land".</ref><br />
#''Tauros'' - the form ''Tauron'' replaced - is a [[Noldorin]] word defined in the ''[[The Etymologies|Etymologies]]'' as meaning "Forest-Dread" ([[Sundocarme|roots]] [[TAW|TÁWAR]] + [[GOS]]).<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, p. 391</ref><br />
<br />
In [[Eriol]]'s [[Old English]] translations, Oromë is referred to as ''Wáðfréa'' "Huntinglord", ''Huntena fréa'' "Hunting Lord and Lord of Hunters" and ''Wealdafréa'' "Lord of Forests". The name ''Béaming'' is a translation of Q. ''Aldaron''.<ref>{{SM|QA1}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | |,|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|.| | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree| AUL |~| YAV | | VAN |~| ORO | | NES |~| TUL | |AUL=[[Aulë]]|YAV=[[Yavanna]]|VAN=[[Vána]]|ORO='''OROMË'''|NES=[[Nessa]]|TUL=[[Tulkas]]}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
<br />
==Other versions of the legendarium==<br />
In the earliest form of the legendarium Oromë was described as the son of [[Aulë]] and [[Yavanna]] whilst having the daughter [[Nielíqui]] with [[Vána]].<ref>{{LT1|Index}}, p. 288</ref> ([[Nessa]] was already his sister; see [[Valarindi]], Children of the Valar)<br />
<br />
{{References|note}}<br />
{{Ainur}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Orome}}<br />
[[Category:Aratar]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Book of Lost Tales]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:First Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:Qenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:Valar]]<br />
[[Category:Valarindi]]<br />
[[de:Orome]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/ainur/valar/aratar/orome]]<br />
[[fi:Oromë]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Valarindi&diff=385041Valarindi2024-01-23T20:58:42Z<p>BartekChom: /* List of Valarindi */ Nessa was the daughter</p>
<hr />
<div>The '''Valarindi''' were the '''Children of the [[Valar]]''' in the earliest phases of the mythology, especially in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''. In the later versions the concept was abandoned and some of the Valarindi characters survived as [[Maiar]]. The Quenya name is attested for the last time in'' [[The Annals of Aman]]''.<ref name="">{{AA|4}}, p. 49</ref><br />
<br />
==List of Valarindi==<br />
*[[Manwë]] and [[Varda]]: [[Fionwë]], [[Ilmarë|Erinti]]<br />
*[[Aulë]] and [[Yavanna]]: [[Oromë]], [[Nessa]]<br />
*Oromë and [[Vána]]: [[Nielíqui]]<br />
*[[Tulkas]] and Nessa: [[Telimektar]]<br />
*[[Melko]] and the [[ogres|ogress]] [[Ulbandi]]: [[Kalimbo]]/[[Gothmog|Kosomot]]<br />
<br />
*[[Túrin Turambar]] was named among the sons of the Gods in both the ''[[Quenta Noldorinwa]]''<ref>{{SM|Q19}}, pp. 165-166 (see note 9)</ref> and the ''[[Quenta Silmarillion (Lost Road)|Quenta Silmarillion]]'' of 1937,<ref>{{LR|P2VI}}, p. 333</ref> although it was later removed along with the concept.<br />
{{References}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2014/10/10/how-could-melian-have-children-if-the-valar-could-not/ How Could Melian have Children if the Valar Could Not?] by [[Michael Martinez]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Quenya demonyms]]<br />
[[Category:Valar]]<br />
[[Category:Valarindi| ]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Fourth_Age&diff=342780Fourth Age2022-02-27T14:16:41Z<p>BartekChom: /* Further future? */ fix link</p>
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<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
The '''Fourth Age''' began after [[Sauron]] was finally defeated, when his [[The One Ring|Ruling Ring]] was destroyed, and the [[Keepers of the Three Rings]] left Middle-earth for the [[Valinor|Uttermost West]]. <br />
<br />
==History==<br />
The [[Third Age]] was held to have ended when Elrond left Middle-earth on [[29 September]] of {{TA|3021}}.<ref name=Calendars>{{App|Calendars}}</ref> There is no information on more than the first few centuries of this age, so it is not known when it ended, if it ever did, although it was probably shorter than 3 millennia.<ref name="Letter211"/> <br />
<br />
This age was marked by the recovery of the [[Númenor]]ean kingdoms of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], while the [[House of Durin]] retook [[Moria]] until the race of [[Dwarves]] failed.<ref>{{PM|Dwarves}}</ref> The [[Last Ship]] of the [[Elves]], carrying [[Círdan]], [[Celeborn]], and all remaining Elves of the [[First Age]] left Middle-earth some time after {{FoA|171}}.<ref name=Records/> Eventually that would lead to the final [[Dominion of Men]] over [[Arda]], coming together with the total waning of the [[Elves]] and other dwindling races, such as the [[Ents]] and probably the Dwarves.<br />
<br />
In a 1972 letter concerning ''[[The New Shadow]]'', Tolkien mentioned that Eldarion's reign would have lasted for about 100 years after the death of Aragorn.<ref name="L338">{{L|338}}</ref> <br />
<br />
==Further future?==<br />
A footnote in a letter written by Tolkien in [[1958]] suggests that the Fourth and [[Ages#Further future|later Ages]] had quickened, so Tolkien lived in the end of the Sixth Age or in the Seventh rather than in the end of the Fifth.<ref name="Letter211">{{L|211}}.</ref><br />
<br />
==Reckoning of years==<br />
Not all calendars in use in Middle-earth at that time reset their count of years to {{FoA|1}} in the same year, on the same date, or indeed at all. As such, years given for certain events in the Fourth Age differ according to the calendar used. <br />
<br />
The [[Shire-reckoning]] is the calendar system used for all dates in the [[Red Book]], with {{SR|1}} corresponding to {{TA|1601}}.<ref name=Hobbits>{{FR|Hobbits}}</ref> Years in Shire-reckoning did not restart at the end of the Third Age, rather it continued uninterrupted from {{SR|1421}} to {{SR|1422}}, and "in so far as the Hobbits took any account of the change of Age, they maintained that it began with [[2 Yule]] 1422."<ref name=Calendars/> This means that {{SR|1422}} is also {{TA|3022}} and {{FoA|1}} as far as dates in the Red Book are concerned.<br />
<br />
However, in [[Gondor]] and the rest of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] outside the Shire, the [[New Reckoning]] calendar entered use starting in {{TA|3019}}. Under this calendar, [[25 March]] {{TA|3021}} is the first day of {{FoA|1}}, some 9 months earlier than the new year in the Shire.<ref name=Calendars/> The [[Shire Calendar]] and the [[New Reckoning]] begin their years on different days: 2 Yule for the Shire and 25 March for the rest of the Reunited Kingdom.<ref group="note">As these days are named in the Shire Calendar; their New Reckoning equivalents are 7 [[Narvinyë]] and [[Yestarë]] respectively</ref> <br />
<br />
There are few dates given in the [[legendarium]] that require the reader to account for this difference, because most dates of the Fourth Age are already explicitly expressed in terms of the Shire Reckoning. For example, [[Legolas]] and [[Gimli]]'s departure from Middle-earth is given as {{SR|1541}}.<ref name="Later"/> The exceptions are both from the [[Note on the Shire Records]] and are as follows:<br />
<br />
* Tolkien explains that the text of ''The Lord of the Rings'' descends from a copy of the Red Book made in Gondor that bore the note "Findegil, King’s Writer, finished this work in IV 172."<ref name=Records>{{FR|Records}}</ref> The accompanying text notes the equivalent year {{SR|1592}}, which is {{FoA|171}} in the Shire Reckoning, so this note must have been written with regard to the New Reckoning calendar before 7 Narvinyë.<br />
* In the same paragraph, Tolkien refers to [[Peregrin Took]]'s retirement to Gondor in "IV 64."<ref name=Records>{{FR|Records}}</ref> We are told elsewhere that Peregrin and his companion [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] arrived in Gondor sometime between the autumn and the ending of {{SR|1484}}, which is {{FoA|63}} in the Shire Reckoning.<ref name="Later">{{App|Later}}</ref> As such, the stated "IV 64" must be in reference to the New Reckoning calendar, again, prior to 7 Narvinyë.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[Timeline/Fourth Age|Timeline of the Fourth Age]]<br />
* ''[[The New Shadow]]''<br />
<br />
{{references|note}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
<br />
* The [https://psarando.github.io/shire-reckoning Shire Reckoning] project, dedicated to simulations and detailed analysis of all the calendars of ''The Lord of the Rings'' [[Appendix D]].<br />
<br />
[[Category:Ages]]<br />
[[Category:Fourth Age]]<br />
[[de:Das Vierte Zeitalter]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/chronologie/quatrieme_age]]<br />
[[fi:Neljäs Aika]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=History_of_Arda&diff=342779History of Arda2022-02-27T14:15:53Z<p>BartekChom: fix link</p>
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<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
The '''History of [[Arda]]''' is divided into three time periods, known as the [[Years of the Lamps]], [[Years of the Trees]] and [[Years of the Sun]]. A separate, overlapping chronology divides the history into 'Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar'. The first such Age began with the Awakening of the Elves during the Years of the Trees and continued for the first six centuries of the Years of the Sun. All the subsequent Ages took place during the Years of the Sun. Most Middle-earth stories take place in the first three Ages of the Children of Iluvatar.<br />
<br />
=== Music of the Ainur ===<br />
{{main|Music of the Ainur}}<br />
<br />
The supreme deity of Tolkien's universe is called [[Ilúvatar|Eru Ilúvatar]]. In the beginning, Ilúvatar created spirits named the [[Ainur]]. Ilúvatar made divine music with them. [[Morgoth|Melkor]], who was then one of the Ainur, broke the harmony of the music, until Ilúvatar began a third theme which the Ainur could not comprehend since they were not the source of it. The essence of their song symbolized the history of the whole universe and the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] that were to dwell in it &mdash; the [[Men]] and the [[Elves]].<br />
<br />
Then Il&uacute;vatar created [[Eä]], the universe itself, and the Ainur formed within it Arda, the Earth, "globed within the void": the world together with the airs is set apart from ''Kuma'', the "void" without. The first 15 of the Ainur that descended to Arda, and the most powerful ones, were called Valar, and the Ainur of lesser might that followed were called Maiar.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Lamps ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Lamps}}<br />
<br />
The Years of the Lamps began shortly after the creation of Arda by the [[Valar]]. After the Valar entered the world, there was a light veiling the ground. The Valar took this light and concentrated it into two large lamps, [[Illuin]] and [[Ormal]]. The Vala [[Aulë]] forged great towers, one in the furthest north, and another in the deepest south. The Valar lived in the middle, at the island of [[Almaren]]. The end of the Years of the Lamps was marked by [[Morgoth|Melkor]]'s destruction of the Two Lamps.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Trees ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Trees}}<br />
<br />
Shortly after the destruction of the Two Lamps, [[Yavanna]] made the [[Two Trees]], named [[Telperion]] (the silver tree) and [[Laurelin]] (the gold tree) in the land of [[Aman]], where the Valar now lived. The Trees illumined Aman, leaving Middle-earth in darkness.<br />
<br />
The [[Awakening of the Elves|Elves awoke]] in [[Cuiviénen]] when the stars were Rekindled, beginning the [[Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar]]. Many, though not all, of the [[Elves]] were persuaded to go on the [[Great Journey]] westwards towards Aman. Along the journey several groups of Elves tarried, notably the [[Nandor]] and the [[Sindar]]. The three clans that arrived at Aman were the [[Vanyar]], [[Noldor|Ñoldor]] and the [[Teleri]].<br />
<br />
The Valar had captured Melkor and placed him in chains in Aman. After he appeared to repent and was released, he sowed great discord among the Elves, and stirred up rivalry between the Ñoldorin King [[Finwë]]'s two sons [[Fëanor]] and [[Fingolfin]]. Out of jealousy and hatred for the Silmarils&mdash;three gems crafted by Feänor that contained the light of the Two Trees&mdash;he stole them, killing Finwë who was guarding the jewels; then with the help of the creature [[Ungoliant]] he destroyed the Two Trees and escaped to Middle-earth.<br />
<br />
Bitter at the Valar's inactivity, Feänor and his house left to pursue Melkor, cursing him with the name 'Morgoth'. A larger host, commanded by [[Fingolfin]] followed him. They reached the Telerin port-city of [[Alqualondë]], and were forbidden to use the Telerin ships. Feänor decided to take them by force and thus the [[Kinslaying at Alqualondë|first Kinslaying]] ensued and only by the strength in numbers were the Teleri overcome and their fair ships stolen.<br />
<br />
Feänor's host sailed on the vessels, and burned them when he arrived in Middle-earth. Left behind, Fingolfin and his company crossed over to Middle-earth through [[Helcaraxë|the Grinding Ice]] in the far north. Around the same time, but separately, Galadriel and Celeborn set sail for Middle-earth without the permission of the Valar.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Sun ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Sun}}<br />
The Years of the Sun began when the Valar made the Sun and the Moon out of the final fruit of [[Laurelin]] and the final flower of [[Telperion]] and set them in the heavens. Thereafter years were reckoned in Middle-earth as they are in our own real world. The First Age of the Children of Ilúvatar continued into this new reckoning of time.<br />
<br />
==== First Age ==== <br />
{{main|First Age}}<br />
<br />
Feänor was soon lost in an attack on Morgoth's [[Balrogs]] - but his sons survived, and founded realms; the kingdoms of the House of Fingolfin.<br />
<br />
The Long Peace lasted hundreds of years; during which time [[Men]] arrived over the [[Blue Mountains]]. But the peace was not to last; and one by one the kingdoms &mdash; even the hidden ones of [[Gondolin]] and [[Doriath]] &mdash; fell.<br />
<br />
At the end of the age, all that remained of free Elves and Men in [[Beleriand]] was a settlement at the mouth of the River [[Sirion]] and another settlement on the isle of Balar. [[Eärendil]] had possession of a Silmaril, which his wife [[Elwing]]'s ancestors [[Beren]] and [[Lúthien]] had taken from Morgoth. But the Feänorians had a claim on the Silmaril still and so there was another Kinslaying. Eärendil and Elwing took the Silmaril across the [[Belegaer|Great Sea]], to beg the Valar for aid.<br />
<br />
They responded. Melkor was exiled into the Void; and most of his works were destroyed. This came at a terrible cost, as [[Beleriand]] itself was sunk.<br />
<br />
====Second Age====<br />
{{main|Second Age}}<br />
<br />
The Men who had remained faithful were given the island of [[Númenor]], in the middle of the Great Sea; whilst the Elves were allowed to return home.<br />
<br />
The Númenoreans became great seafarers, but became jealous of the Elves for their immortality. Meanwhile, in Middle-earth it became apparent that [[Sauron]], Morgoth's chief servant, was still active. He worked with Elven smiths in [[Eregion]] on the craft of rings, and forged [[the One Ring]] to dominate them all. The Elves noticed this and removed theirs.<br />
<br />
Towards the end of the age, the Númenoreans were growing increasingly proud. King [[Ar-Pharazôn]] humbled even Sauron and brought him to Númenor as a hostage. Sauron worked his way into Pharazôn's court, and became high priest in a cult of Melkor. Eventually, Pharazôn was persuaded to attempt to invade Aman, promised that immortality would result.<br />
<br />
[[Amandil]], chief of the faithful, sailed westward to warn the Valar of this. His son [[Elendil]] and grandsons [[Isildur]] and [[Anárion]] prepared to flee eastwards. When the King's men had landed on Aman, the Valar lay down their guardianship of the world and called for Ilúvatar to intervene.<br />
<br />
The world was changed into a sphere, and the straight road from Middle-earth to Aman was broken. Númenor was utterly destroyed, as was the fair body of Sauron. Elendil and his sons founded the realms of [[Gondor]] and [[Arnor]].<br />
<br />
Sauron arose again and challenged them. The Elves allied with the Men to form the [[Last Alliance]] which defeated him. His One Ring was taken from him by Isildur, but not destroyed.<br />
<br />
====Third Age====<br />
{{main|Third Age}}<br />
<br />
The Third Age saw the rise in power of the realms of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], and their fall. Arnor was divided into three petty Kingdoms, which fell one by one, whilst Gondor fell victim to [[Kin-strife]], plague, wainriders, and corsairs.<br />
<br />
By the time of ''The Lord of the Rings'', [[Sauron]] had recovered again, and was seeking the One Ring. He discovered that it was in the possession of a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] named [[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]], and sent out the [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]] to find him and retrieve it.<br />
<br />
The Ring-bearer, [[Frodo Baggins]], is sent to [[Rivendell]], where it is decided that the One Ring must be destroyed once and for all &mdash; and it can only be unmade in the fiery depths of [[Mount Doom]] where it was forged. He sets out on this quest with eight other companions who comprise ''The Fellowship of the Ring''.<br />
<br />
After a long and difficult journey, he and [[Samwise Gamgee]] finally complete the mission, succeeding largely due to an unforeseen event that was out of their control. [[Sauron]] is thus destroyed forever and they are lauded as heroes.<br />
<br />
[[Aragorn]] takes his place as King of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], at last restoring the line of Kings from the [[Stewards of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
====Fourth Age and after====<br />
{{main|Fourth Age}}<br />
<br />
The end of the Third Age marked the end of the involvement of the Elves in Mannish affairs, despite a short-lived revival of Elven presence in Gondor under [[Legolas]]. Most Elves that have lingered in Middle-earth leave for Valinor &mdash; those that remain behind "fade", and eventually diminish. A similar fate happens to the Dwarves: although [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] becomes an ally of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] and there are indications [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]] is refounded, and a colony is established under [[Gimli]] in the [[White Mountains]], they become ever more reclusive, and disappear from mannish history. Morgoth's creatures are almost wiped out and never recover. During the later Fourth Age the tales of the earlier Ages turn into legends, until they are eventually thought of as fantasies, as the heirs of the Númenóreans forget their heritage.<br />
<br />
Tolkien imagined that he lived perhaps about 6000 years after the [[War of the Ring]], [[Ages#Further future|in the Fifth, Sixth or Seventh Age]].<br />
<br />
==End of Arda==<br />
{{main|Dagor Dagorath}}<br />
After contemplating [[Arda Marred|Arda's decay]], the Elves could deduce that Arda had to come to an end. There are also many mentions of this end happening with a Last Battle after Morgoth's return. After his defeat, it is said that Men and Ainur will make a [[Second Music of the Ainur|Second Music]] in front of Ilúvatar.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Chronology]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Seventh_Age&diff=342778Seventh Age2022-02-27T14:15:21Z<p>BartekChom: fix link</p>
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<div>#REDIRECT [[Ages#Further future]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Sixth_Age&diff=342777Sixth Age2022-02-27T14:15:05Z<p>BartekChom: fix link</p>
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<div>#REDIRECT [[Ages#Further future]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Fifth_Age&diff=342776Fifth Age2022-02-27T14:14:50Z<p>BartekChom: fix link</p>
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<div>#REDIRECT [[Ages#Further future]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_History_of_Middle-earth&diff=338047The History of Middle-earth2021-11-04T20:46:18Z<p>BartekChom: /* See also */ I was looking for the history of Arda</p>
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<div>[[File:Daniel Helen - The History of Middle-earth.png|thumb|300px|[[HarperCollins]] paperback edition of ''The History of Middle-earth'']]<br />
'''''The History of Middle-earth''''' is a 12 volume series of books compiled and edited by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]'s son, [[Christopher Tolkien]]. In the volumes, Christopher Tolkien presents and discusses manuscripts by his father related to the stories of ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. Some of the material is revealed for the first time, while some consists of earlier versions of already published material.<br />
<br />
The first two books introduce us to ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]'', the first conception of Tolkien's [[legendarium]]. The third volume deals with long poems concerning some of the main stories. The following two books follow developments from ''The Book of Lost Tales'' to the first so called ''Quenta Silmarillion''. Volumes 6 through 9 discuss the development of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', while the second half of book 9 discusses the tale of Númenor. Books 10 and 11 discuss the later developments of ''The Silmarillion'', which served as source material for ''[[The Silmarillion|the published edition]]''. The final book entails the development of [[The Lord of the Rings Appendices|''The Lord of the Rings'' Appendices]], followed by some assorted essays J.R.R. Tolkien wrote in the last years of his life.<br />
<br />
#''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One]]'' (1983)<br />
#''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part Two]]'' (1984)<br />
#''[[The Lays of Beleriand]]'' (1985)<br />
#''[[The Shaping of Middle-earth]]'' (1986)<br />
#''[[The Lost Road and Other Writings]]'' (1987)<br />
#''[[The Return of the Shadow]]'' (''[[The History of The Lord of the Rings]]'' vol. 1) (1988)<br />
#''[[The Treason of Isengard]]'' (''The History of The Lord of the Rings'' vol. 2) (1989)<br />
#''[[The War of the Ring]]'' (''The History of The Lord of the Rings'' vol. 3) (1990)<br />
#''[[Sauron Defeated]]'' (''The History of The Lord of the Rings'' vol. 4) (1992)<br />
#''[[Morgoth's Ring]]'' (''The Later Silmarillion'' vol. 1) (1993)<br />
#''[[The War of the Jewels]]'' (''The Later Silmarillion'' vol. 2) (1994)<br />
#''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'' (1996)<br />
<br />
A thirteenth volume was published in 2002, ''[[The History of Middle-earth Index]]''. This book has completely integrated all the indices from the set in one large index.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*''[[Unfinished Tales]]''<br />
*''[[The History of The Hobbit]]''<br />
*''[[The Nature of Middle-earth]]''<br />
*[[History of Arda]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/md_hm.html What's in the History of Middle-earth?], by Ninni M. Pettersson<br />
*[http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/md_hmch.html The HoMe-texts in chronological order] - list of the HoMe components in the order they were written by Tolkien (by Ninni M. Pettersson) <br />
*[http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/historyofmiddleearth/home.php The History of Middle-earth summaries]<br />
{{home}}<br />
{{title|italics}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:History of Middle-earth}}<br />
[[Category:Books by J.R.R. Tolkien]]<br />
[[Category:Books by Christopher Tolkien]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ages&diff=338046Ages2021-11-04T20:40:00Z<p>BartekChom: /* Further future? */ this section is about Ages, no "beginning" in the quote</p>
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<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
'''Ages''' are large spans of [[Time]] in which the [[Wise]] and the loremasters divided the history of [[Arda]]. The division was made according to large historical events such as the overthrowing of a [[Dark Lord]].<br />
==The Ages==<br />
===[[First Age]]===<br />
The First Age saw the ascent of the [[Elves]], [[Dwarves]] and [[Men]] and their [[Wars of Beleriand|wars]] against [[Morgoth]]. It ended with the [[War of Wrath]] and the drowning of [[Beleriand]]. [[Morgoth]] was captured by the [[Valar]], ending centuries of dominion in Beleriand.<ref>{{S|Earendil}}</ref><ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
===[[Second Age]]===<br />
In the Second Age the [[Edain]] prospered in [[Númenor]], but [[Sauron]], a servant of Morgoth also came to dominate the [[Westlands]]. The [[Rings of Power]] were created as one of such attempts. Sauron's influence also caused the [[Drowning of Númenor]] and the [[Changing of the World]]. The Age ended with the [[War of the Last Alliance]] and the defeat of [[Sauron]].<ref name=AB>{{App|B}}</ref><ref name=rings>{{S|Rings}}</ref><br />
<br />
===[[Third Age]]===<br />
The Third Age saw the gradual fading of the Elves and also the rise of Sauron against the [[Realms in Exile|Númenórean kingdoms]], until he was defeated during the [[War of the Ring]]. The Age ended some years later with the departure of the [[White Ship]] from [[Mithlond]].<ref name=rings/><ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
===[[Fourth Age]]===<br />
The Fourth Age was a time when the Elves faded while Dwarves, Men and [[Hobbits]] prospered and recovered after the fall of Sauron, until the [[Dominion of Men]].<ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
===Further future?===<br />
{{quote|For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time.|[[Aragorn]]<ref>{{TT|Riders}}</ref>}}<br />
Tolkien said in a letter written in [[1958]] that he imagined that the events of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' had happened approximately 6000 years earlier, so it was about the end of the Fifth Age if length of the Ages was unchanged, but they had probably quickened and it was about the end of the Sixth Age or in the Seventh. However he did not explain the criteria of why the Ages should be shortened.<ref name="Letter211">{{L|211}}. Quotes: "I hope the, evidently long but undefined, gap(*) in time between the Fall of Barad-dur and our Days is sufficient for 'literary credibility', even for readers acquainted with what is known or surmised of 'pre-history'." "(*) I imagine the gap to be about 6000 years: that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were of about the same length as S.A. and T.A. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh."</ref><br />
<br />
Two years after that letter, Tolkien changed this idea and wrote that, instead, we were already in the year 1960 of the Seventh Age, indicating that this Age follows the Christian reckoning.<ref>{{NM|P1vi}}, p. 39</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*Ages of the [[Chaining of Melkor]]<br />
*[[Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar]]<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Ages]]<br />
[[Category:Measures]]<br />
[[Category:Periods]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Fourth_Age&diff=338045Fourth Age2021-11-04T20:34:39Z<p>BartekChom: /* Further future? */ sorrt, A!</p>
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<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
The '''Fourth Age''' began after [[Sauron]] was finally defeated, when his [[The One Ring|Ruling Ring]] was destroyed, and the [[Keepers of the Three Rings]] left Middle-earth for the [[Valinor|Uttermost West]]. <br />
<br />
==History==<br />
The [[Third Age]] was held to have ended when Elrond left Middle-earth on [[29 September]] of {{TA|3021}}.<ref name=Calendars>{{App|Calendars}}</ref> There is no information on more than the first few centuries of this age, so it is not known when it ended, if it ever did, although it was probably shorter than 3 millennia.<ref name="Letter211"/> <br />
<br />
This age was marked by the recovery of the [[Númenor]]ean kingdoms of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], while the [[House of Durin]] retook [[Moria]] until the race of [[Dwarves]] failed.<ref>{{PM|Dwarves}}</ref> The [[Last Ship]] of the [[Elves]], carrying [[Círdan]], [[Celeborn]], and all remaining Elves of the [[First Age]] left Middle-earth some time after {{FoA|171}}.<ref name=Records/> Eventually that would lead to the final [[Dominion of Men]] over [[Arda]], coming together with the total waning of the [[Elves]] and other dwindling races, such as the [[Ents]] and probably the Dwarves.<br />
<br />
In a 1972 letter concerning ''[[The New Shadow]]'', Tolkien mentioned that Eldarion's reign would have lasted for about 100 years after the death of Aragorn.<ref name="L338">{{L|338}}</ref> <br />
<br />
==Further future?==<br />
A footnote in a letter written by Tolkien in [[1958]] suggests that the Fourth and [[Ages#Further future?|later Ages]] had quickened, so Tolkien lived in the end of the Sixth Age or in the Seventh rather than in the end of the Fifth.<ref name="Letter211">{{L|211}}.</ref><br />
<br />
==Reckoning of years==<br />
Not all calendars in use in Middle-earth at that time reset their count of years to {{FoA|1}} in the same year, on the same date, or indeed at all. As such, years given for certain events in the Fourth Age differ according to the calendar used. <br />
<br />
The [[Shire-reckoning]] is the calendar system used for all dates in the [[Red Book]], with {{SR|1}} corresponding to {{TA|1601}}.<ref name=Hobbits>{{FR|Hobbits}}</ref> Years in Shire-reckoning did not restart at the end of the Third Age, rather it continued uninterrupted from {{SR|1421}} to {{SR|1422}}, and "in so far as the Hobbits took any account of the change of Age, they maintained that it began with [[2 Yule]] 1422."<ref name=Calendars/> This means that {{SR|1422}} is also {{TA|3022}} and {{FoA|1}} as far as dates in the Red Book are concerned.<br />
<br />
However, in [[Gondor]] and the rest of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] outside the Shire, the [[New Reckoning]] calendar entered use starting in {{TA|3019}}. Under this calendar, [[25 March]] {{TA|3021}} is the first day of {{FoA|1}}, some 9 months earlier than the new year in the Shire.<ref name=Calendars/> The [[Shire Calendar]] and the [[New Reckoning]] begin their years on different days: 2 Yule for the Shire and 25 March for the rest of the Reunited Kingdom.<ref group="note">As these days are named in the Shire Calendar; their New Reckoning equivalents are 7 [[Narvinyë]] and [[Yestarë]] respectively</ref> <br />
<br />
There are few dates given in the [[legendarium]] that require the reader to account for this difference, because most dates of the Fourth Age are already explicitly expressed in terms of the Shire Reckoning. For example, [[Legolas]] and [[Gimli]]'s departure from Middle-earth is given as {{SR|1541}}.<ref name="Later"/> The exceptions are both from the [[Note on the Shire Records]] and are as follows:<br />
<br />
* Tolkien explains that the text of ''The Lord of the Rings'' descends from a copy of the Red Book made in Gondor that bore the note "Findegil, King’s Writer, finished this work in IV 172."<ref name=Records>{{FR|Records}}</ref> The accompanying text notes the equivalent year {{SR|1592}}, which is {{FoA|171}} in the Shire Reckoning, so this note must have been written with regard to the New Reckoning calendar before 7 Narvinyë.<br />
* In the same paragraph, Tolkien refers to [[Peregrin Took]]'s retirement to Gondor in "IV 64."<ref name=Records>{{FR|Records}}</ref> We are told elsewhere that Peregrin and his companion [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] arrived in Gondor sometime between the autumn and the ending of {{SR|1484}}, which is {{FoA|63}} in the Shire Reckoning.<ref name="Later">{{App|Later}}</ref> As such, the stated "IV 64" must be in reference to the New Reckoning calendar, again, prior to 7 Narvinyë.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[Timeline/Fourth Age|Timeline of the Fourth Age]]<br />
* ''[[The New Shadow]]''<br />
<br />
{{references|note}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
<br />
* The [https://psarando.github.io/shire-reckoning Shire Reckoning] project, dedicated to simulations and detailed analysis of all the calendars of ''The Lord of the Rings'' [[Appendix D]].<br />
<br />
[[Category:Ages]]<br />
[[Category:Fourth Age]]<br />
[[de:Das Vierte Zeitalter]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/chronologie/quatrieme_age]]<br />
[[fi:Neljäs Aika]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=History_of_Arda&diff=338044History of Arda2021-11-04T20:33:41Z<p>BartekChom: /* Fourth Age and after */ the!</p>
<hr />
<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
The '''History of [[Arda]]''' is divided into three time periods, known as the [[Years of the Lamps]], [[Years of the Trees]] and [[Years of the Sun]]. A separate, overlapping chronology divides the history into 'Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar'. The first such Age began with the Awakening of the Elves during the Years of the Trees and continued for the first six centuries of the Years of the Sun. All the subsequent Ages took place during the Years of the Sun. Most Middle-earth stories take place in the first three Ages of the Children of Iluvatar.<br />
<br />
=== Music of the Ainur ===<br />
{{main|Music of the Ainur}}<br />
<br />
The supreme deity of Tolkien's universe is called [[Ilúvatar|Eru Ilúvatar]]. In the beginning, Ilúvatar created spirits named the [[Ainur]]. Ilúvatar made divine music with them. [[Morgoth|Melkor]], who was then one of the Ainur, broke the harmony of the music, until Ilúvatar began a third theme which the Ainur could not comprehend since they were not the source of it. The essence of their song symbolized the history of the whole universe and the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] that were to dwell in it &mdash; the [[Men]] and the [[Elves]].<br />
<br />
Then Il&uacute;vatar created [[Eä]], the universe itself, and the Ainur formed within it Arda, the Earth, "globed within the void": the world together with the airs is set apart from ''Kuma'', the "void" without. The first 15 of the Ainur that descended to Arda, and the most powerful ones, were called Valar, and the Ainur of lesser might that followed were called Maiar.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Lamps ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Lamps}}<br />
<br />
The Years of the Lamps began shortly after the creation of Arda by the [[Valar]]. After the Valar entered the world, there was a light veiling the ground. The Valar took this light and concentrated it into two large lamps, [[Illuin]] and [[Ormal]]. The Vala [[Aulë]] forged great towers, one in the furthest north, and another in the deepest south. The Valar lived in the middle, at the island of [[Almaren]]. The end of the Years of the Lamps was marked by [[Morgoth|Melkor]]'s destruction of the Two Lamps.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Trees ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Trees}}<br />
<br />
Shortly after the destruction of the Two Lamps, [[Yavanna]] made the [[Two Trees]], named [[Telperion]] (the silver tree) and [[Laurelin]] (the gold tree) in the land of [[Aman]], where the Valar now lived. The Trees illumined Aman, leaving Middle-earth in darkness.<br />
<br />
The [[Awakening of the Elves|Elves awoke]] in [[Cuiviénen]] when the stars were Rekindled, beginning the [[Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar]]. Many, though not all, of the [[Elves]] were persuaded to go on the [[Great Journey]] westwards towards Aman. Along the journey several groups of Elves tarried, notably the [[Nandor]] and the [[Sindar]]. The three clans that arrived at Aman were the [[Vanyar]], [[Noldor|Ñoldor]] and the [[Teleri]].<br />
<br />
The Valar had captured Melkor and placed him in chains in Aman. After he appeared to repent and was released, he sowed great discord among the Elves, and stirred up rivalry between the Ñoldorin King [[Finwë]]'s two sons [[Fëanor]] and [[Fingolfin]]. Out of jealousy and hatred for the Silmarils&mdash;three gems crafted by Feänor that contained the light of the Two Trees&mdash;he stole them, killing Finwë who was guarding the jewels; then with the help of the creature [[Ungoliant]] he destroyed the Two Trees and escaped to Middle-earth.<br />
<br />
Bitter at the Valar's inactivity, Feänor and his house left to pursue Melkor, cursing him with the name 'Morgoth'. A larger host, commanded by [[Fingolfin]] followed him. They reached the Telerin port-city of [[Alqualondë]], and were forbidden to use the Telerin ships. Feänor decided to take them by force and thus the [[Kinslaying at Alqualondë|first Kinslaying]] ensued and only by the strength in numbers were the Teleri overcome and their fair ships stolen.<br />
<br />
Feänor's host sailed on the vessels, and burned them when he arrived in Middle-earth. Left behind, Fingolfin and his company crossed over to Middle-earth through [[Helcaraxë|the Grinding Ice]] in the far north. Around the same time, but separately, Galadriel and Celeborn set sail for Middle-earth without the permission of the Valar.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Sun ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Sun}}<br />
The Years of the Sun began when the Valar made the Sun and the Moon out of the final fruit of [[Laurelin]] and the final flower of [[Telperion]] and set them in the heavens. Thereafter years were reckoned in Middle-earth as they are in our own real world. The First Age of the Children of Ilúvatar continued into this new reckoning of time.<br />
<br />
==== First Age ==== <br />
{{main|First Age}}<br />
<br />
Feänor was soon lost in an attack on Morgoth's [[Balrogs]] - but his sons survived, and founded realms; the kingdoms of the House of Fingolfin.<br />
<br />
The Long Peace lasted hundreds of years; during which time [[Men]] arrived over the [[Blue Mountains]]. But the peace was not to last; and one by one the kingdoms &mdash; even the hidden ones of [[Gondolin]] and [[Doriath]] &mdash; fell.<br />
<br />
At the end of the age, all that remained of free Elves and Men in [[Beleriand]] was a settlement at the mouth of the River [[Sirion]] and another settlement on the isle of Balar. [[Eärendil]] had possession of a Silmaril, which his wife [[Elwing]]'s ancestors [[Beren]] and [[Lúthien]] had taken from Morgoth. But the Feänorians had a claim on the Silmaril still and so there was another Kinslaying. Eärendil and Elwing took the Silmaril across the [[Belegaer|Great Sea]], to beg the Valar for aid.<br />
<br />
They responded. Melkor was exiled into the Void; and most of his works were destroyed. This came at a terrible cost, as [[Beleriand]] itself was sunk.<br />
<br />
====Second Age====<br />
{{main|Second Age}}<br />
<br />
The Men who had remained faithful were given the island of [[Númenor]], in the middle of the Great Sea; whilst the Elves were allowed to return home.<br />
<br />
The Númenoreans became great seafarers, but became jealous of the Elves for their immortality. Meanwhile, in Middle-earth it became apparent that [[Sauron]], Morgoth's chief servant, was still active. He worked with Elven smiths in [[Eregion]] on the craft of rings, and forged [[the One Ring]] to dominate them all. The Elves noticed this and removed theirs.<br />
<br />
Towards the end of the age, the Númenoreans were growing increasingly proud. King [[Ar-Pharazôn]] humbled even Sauron and brought him to Númenor as a hostage. Sauron worked his way into Pharazôn's court, and became high priest in a cult of Melkor. Eventually, Pharazôn was persuaded to attempt to invade Aman, promised that immortality would result.<br />
<br />
[[Amandil]], chief of the faithful, sailed westward to warn the Valar of this. His son [[Elendil]] and grandsons [[Isildur]] and [[Anárion]] prepared to flee eastwards. When the King's men had landed on Aman, the Valar lay down their guardianship of the world and called for Ilúvatar to intervene.<br />
<br />
The world was changed into a sphere, and the straight road from Middle-earth to Aman was broken. Númenor was utterly destroyed, as was the fair body of Sauron. Elendil and his sons founded the realms of [[Gondor]] and [[Arnor]].<br />
<br />
Sauron arose again and challenged them. The Elves allied with the Men to form the [[Last Alliance]] which defeated him. His One Ring was taken from him by Isildur, but not destroyed.<br />
<br />
====Third Age====<br />
{{main|Third Age}}<br />
<br />
The Third Age saw the rise in power of the realms of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], and their fall. Arnor was divided into three petty Kingdoms, which fell one by one, whilst Gondor fell victim to [[Kin-strife]], plague, wainriders, and corsairs.<br />
<br />
By the time of ''The Lord of the Rings'', [[Sauron]] had recovered again, and was seeking the One Ring. He discovered that it was in the possession of a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] named [[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]], and sent out the [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]] to find him and retrieve it.<br />
<br />
The Ring-bearer, [[Frodo Baggins]], is sent to [[Rivendell]], where it is decided that the One Ring must be destroyed once and for all &mdash; and it can only be unmade in the fiery depths of [[Mount Doom]] where it was forged. He sets out on this quest with eight other companions who comprise ''The Fellowship of the Ring''.<br />
<br />
After a long and difficult journey, he and [[Samwise Gamgee]] finally complete the mission, succeeding largely due to an unforeseen event that was out of their control. [[Sauron]] is thus destroyed forever and they are lauded as heroes.<br />
<br />
[[Aragorn]] takes his place as King of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], at last restoring the line of Kings from the [[Stewards of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
====Fourth Age and after====<br />
{{main|Fourth Age}}<br />
<br />
The end of the Third Age marked the end of the involvement of the Elves in Mannish affairs, despite a short-lived revival of Elven presence in Gondor under [[Legolas]]. Most Elves that have lingered in Middle-earth leave for Valinor &mdash; those that remain behind "fade", and eventually diminish. A similar fate happens to the Dwarves: although [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] becomes an ally of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] and there are indications [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]] is refounded, and a colony is established under [[Gimli]] in the [[White Mountains]], they become ever more reclusive, and disappear from mannish history. Morgoth's creatures are almost wiped out and never recover. During the later Fourth Age the tales of the earlier Ages turn into legends, until they are eventually thought of as fantasies, as the heirs of the Númenóreans forget their heritage.<br />
<br />
Tolkien imagined that he lived perhaps about 6000 years after the [[War of the Ring]], [[Ages#Further future?|in the Fifth, Sixth or Seventh Age]].<br />
<br />
==End of Arda==<br />
{{main|Dagor Dagorath}}<br />
After contemplating [[Arda Marred|Arda's decay]], the Elves could deduce that Arda had to come to an end. There are also many mentions of this end happening with a Last Battle after Morgoth's return. After his defeat, it is said that Men and Ainur will make a [[Second Music of the Ainur|Second Music]] in front of Ilúvatar.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Chronology]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Seventh_Age&diff=338043Seventh Age2021-11-04T20:32:20Z<p>BartekChom: easier to find if somebody tries to find it</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Ages#Further future?]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Sixth_Age&diff=338042Sixth Age2021-11-04T20:31:53Z<p>BartekChom: easier to find if somebody tries to find it</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Ages#Further future?]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Fifth_Age&diff=338041Fifth Age2021-11-04T20:31:28Z<p>BartekChom: easier to find if somebody tries to find it</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Ages#Further future?]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=History_of_Arda&diff=338040History of Arda2021-11-04T20:29:50Z<p>BartekChom: /* Fourth Age and after */ sorry, A!</p>
<hr />
<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
The '''History of [[Arda]]''' is divided into three time periods, known as the [[Years of the Lamps]], [[Years of the Trees]] and [[Years of the Sun]]. A separate, overlapping chronology divides the history into 'Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar'. The first such Age began with the Awakening of the Elves during the Years of the Trees and continued for the first six centuries of the Years of the Sun. All the subsequent Ages took place during the Years of the Sun. Most Middle-earth stories take place in the first three Ages of the Children of Iluvatar.<br />
<br />
=== Music of the Ainur ===<br />
{{main|Music of the Ainur}}<br />
<br />
The supreme deity of Tolkien's universe is called [[Ilúvatar|Eru Ilúvatar]]. In the beginning, Ilúvatar created spirits named the [[Ainur]]. Ilúvatar made divine music with them. [[Morgoth|Melkor]], who was then one of the Ainur, broke the harmony of the music, until Ilúvatar began a third theme which the Ainur could not comprehend since they were not the source of it. The essence of their song symbolized the history of the whole universe and the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] that were to dwell in it &mdash; the [[Men]] and the [[Elves]].<br />
<br />
Then Il&uacute;vatar created [[Eä]], the universe itself, and the Ainur formed within it Arda, the Earth, "globed within the void": the world together with the airs is set apart from ''Kuma'', the "void" without. The first 15 of the Ainur that descended to Arda, and the most powerful ones, were called Valar, and the Ainur of lesser might that followed were called Maiar.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Lamps ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Lamps}}<br />
<br />
The Years of the Lamps began shortly after the creation of Arda by the [[Valar]]. After the Valar entered the world, there was a light veiling the ground. The Valar took this light and concentrated it into two large lamps, [[Illuin]] and [[Ormal]]. The Vala [[Aulë]] forged great towers, one in the furthest north, and another in the deepest south. The Valar lived in the middle, at the island of [[Almaren]]. The end of the Years of the Lamps was marked by [[Morgoth|Melkor]]'s destruction of the Two Lamps.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Trees ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Trees}}<br />
<br />
Shortly after the destruction of the Two Lamps, [[Yavanna]] made the [[Two Trees]], named [[Telperion]] (the silver tree) and [[Laurelin]] (the gold tree) in the land of [[Aman]], where the Valar now lived. The Trees illumined Aman, leaving Middle-earth in darkness.<br />
<br />
The [[Awakening of the Elves|Elves awoke]] in [[Cuiviénen]] when the stars were Rekindled, beginning the [[Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar]]. Many, though not all, of the [[Elves]] were persuaded to go on the [[Great Journey]] westwards towards Aman. Along the journey several groups of Elves tarried, notably the [[Nandor]] and the [[Sindar]]. The three clans that arrived at Aman were the [[Vanyar]], [[Noldor|Ñoldor]] and the [[Teleri]].<br />
<br />
The Valar had captured Melkor and placed him in chains in Aman. After he appeared to repent and was released, he sowed great discord among the Elves, and stirred up rivalry between the Ñoldorin King [[Finwë]]'s two sons [[Fëanor]] and [[Fingolfin]]. Out of jealousy and hatred for the Silmarils&mdash;three gems crafted by Feänor that contained the light of the Two Trees&mdash;he stole them, killing Finwë who was guarding the jewels; then with the help of the creature [[Ungoliant]] he destroyed the Two Trees and escaped to Middle-earth.<br />
<br />
Bitter at the Valar's inactivity, Feänor and his house left to pursue Melkor, cursing him with the name 'Morgoth'. A larger host, commanded by [[Fingolfin]] followed him. They reached the Telerin port-city of [[Alqualondë]], and were forbidden to use the Telerin ships. Feänor decided to take them by force and thus the [[Kinslaying at Alqualondë|first Kinslaying]] ensued and only by the strength in numbers were the Teleri overcome and their fair ships stolen.<br />
<br />
Feänor's host sailed on the vessels, and burned them when he arrived in Middle-earth. Left behind, Fingolfin and his company crossed over to Middle-earth through [[Helcaraxë|the Grinding Ice]] in the far north. Around the same time, but separately, Galadriel and Celeborn set sail for Middle-earth without the permission of the Valar.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Sun ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Sun}}<br />
The Years of the Sun began when the Valar made the Sun and the Moon out of the final fruit of [[Laurelin]] and the final flower of [[Telperion]] and set them in the heavens. Thereafter years were reckoned in Middle-earth as they are in our own real world. The First Age of the Children of Ilúvatar continued into this new reckoning of time.<br />
<br />
==== First Age ==== <br />
{{main|First Age}}<br />
<br />
Feänor was soon lost in an attack on Morgoth's [[Balrogs]] - but his sons survived, and founded realms; the kingdoms of the House of Fingolfin.<br />
<br />
The Long Peace lasted hundreds of years; during which time [[Men]] arrived over the [[Blue Mountains]]. But the peace was not to last; and one by one the kingdoms &mdash; even the hidden ones of [[Gondolin]] and [[Doriath]] &mdash; fell.<br />
<br />
At the end of the age, all that remained of free Elves and Men in [[Beleriand]] was a settlement at the mouth of the River [[Sirion]] and another settlement on the isle of Balar. [[Eärendil]] had possession of a Silmaril, which his wife [[Elwing]]'s ancestors [[Beren]] and [[Lúthien]] had taken from Morgoth. But the Feänorians had a claim on the Silmaril still and so there was another Kinslaying. Eärendil and Elwing took the Silmaril across the [[Belegaer|Great Sea]], to beg the Valar for aid.<br />
<br />
They responded. Melkor was exiled into the Void; and most of his works were destroyed. This came at a terrible cost, as [[Beleriand]] itself was sunk.<br />
<br />
====Second Age====<br />
{{main|Second Age}}<br />
<br />
The Men who had remained faithful were given the island of [[Númenor]], in the middle of the Great Sea; whilst the Elves were allowed to return home.<br />
<br />
The Númenoreans became great seafarers, but became jealous of the Elves for their immortality. Meanwhile, in Middle-earth it became apparent that [[Sauron]], Morgoth's chief servant, was still active. He worked with Elven smiths in [[Eregion]] on the craft of rings, and forged [[the One Ring]] to dominate them all. The Elves noticed this and removed theirs.<br />
<br />
Towards the end of the age, the Númenoreans were growing increasingly proud. King [[Ar-Pharazôn]] humbled even Sauron and brought him to Númenor as a hostage. Sauron worked his way into Pharazôn's court, and became high priest in a cult of Melkor. Eventually, Pharazôn was persuaded to attempt to invade Aman, promised that immortality would result.<br />
<br />
[[Amandil]], chief of the faithful, sailed westward to warn the Valar of this. His son [[Elendil]] and grandsons [[Isildur]] and [[Anárion]] prepared to flee eastwards. When the King's men had landed on Aman, the Valar lay down their guardianship of the world and called for Ilúvatar to intervene.<br />
<br />
The world was changed into a sphere, and the straight road from Middle-earth to Aman was broken. Númenor was utterly destroyed, as was the fair body of Sauron. Elendil and his sons founded the realms of [[Gondor]] and [[Arnor]].<br />
<br />
Sauron arose again and challenged them. The Elves allied with the Men to form the [[Last Alliance]] which defeated him. His One Ring was taken from him by Isildur, but not destroyed.<br />
<br />
====Third Age====<br />
{{main|Third Age}}<br />
<br />
The Third Age saw the rise in power of the realms of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], and their fall. Arnor was divided into three petty Kingdoms, which fell one by one, whilst Gondor fell victim to [[Kin-strife]], plague, wainriders, and corsairs.<br />
<br />
By the time of ''The Lord of the Rings'', [[Sauron]] had recovered again, and was seeking the One Ring. He discovered that it was in the possession of a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] named [[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]], and sent out the [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]] to find him and retrieve it.<br />
<br />
The Ring-bearer, [[Frodo Baggins]], is sent to [[Rivendell]], where it is decided that the One Ring must be destroyed once and for all &mdash; and it can only be unmade in the fiery depths of [[Mount Doom]] where it was forged. He sets out on this quest with eight other companions who comprise ''The Fellowship of the Ring''.<br />
<br />
After a long and difficult journey, he and [[Samwise Gamgee]] finally complete the mission, succeeding largely due to an unforeseen event that was out of their control. [[Sauron]] is thus destroyed forever and they are lauded as heroes.<br />
<br />
[[Aragorn]] takes his place as King of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], at last restoring the line of Kings from the [[Stewards of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
====Fourth Age and after====<br />
{{main|Fourth Age}}<br />
<br />
The end of the Third Age marked the end of the involvement of the Elves in Mannish affairs, despite a short-lived revival of Elven presence in Gondor under [[Legolas]]. Most Elves that have lingered in Middle-earth leave for Valinor &mdash; those that remain behind "fade", and eventually diminish. A similar fate happens to the Dwarves: although [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] becomes an ally of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] and there are indications [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]] is refounded, and a colony is established under [[Gimli]] in the [[White Mountains]], they become ever more reclusive, and disappear from mannish history. Morgoth's creatures are almost wiped out and never recover. During the later Fourth Age the tales of the earlier Ages turn into legends, until they are eventually thought of as fantasies, as the heirs of the Númenóreans forget their heritage.<br />
<br />
Tolkien imagined that he lived perhaps about 6000 years after [[War of the Ring]], [[Ages#Further future?|in the Fifth, Sixth or Seventh Age]].<br />
<br />
==End of Arda==<br />
{{main|Dagor Dagorath}}<br />
After contemplating [[Arda Marred|Arda's decay]], the Elves could deduce that Arda had to come to an end. There are also many mentions of this end happening with a Last Battle after Morgoth's return. After his defeat, it is said that Men and Ainur will make a [[Second Music of the Ainur|Second Music]] in front of Ilúvatar.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Chronology]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=History_of_Arda&diff=338039History of Arda2021-11-04T20:28:36Z<p>BartekChom: /* Fourth Age and after */ "undefined"</p>
<hr />
<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
The '''History of [[Arda]]''' is divided into three time periods, known as the [[Years of the Lamps]], [[Years of the Trees]] and [[Years of the Sun]]. A separate, overlapping chronology divides the history into 'Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar'. The first such Age began with the Awakening of the Elves during the Years of the Trees and continued for the first six centuries of the Years of the Sun. All the subsequent Ages took place during the Years of the Sun. Most Middle-earth stories take place in the first three Ages of the Children of Iluvatar.<br />
<br />
=== Music of the Ainur ===<br />
{{main|Music of the Ainur}}<br />
<br />
The supreme deity of Tolkien's universe is called [[Ilúvatar|Eru Ilúvatar]]. In the beginning, Ilúvatar created spirits named the [[Ainur]]. Ilúvatar made divine music with them. [[Morgoth|Melkor]], who was then one of the Ainur, broke the harmony of the music, until Ilúvatar began a third theme which the Ainur could not comprehend since they were not the source of it. The essence of their song symbolized the history of the whole universe and the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] that were to dwell in it &mdash; the [[Men]] and the [[Elves]].<br />
<br />
Then Il&uacute;vatar created [[Eä]], the universe itself, and the Ainur formed within it Arda, the Earth, "globed within the void": the world together with the airs is set apart from ''Kuma'', the "void" without. The first 15 of the Ainur that descended to Arda, and the most powerful ones, were called Valar, and the Ainur of lesser might that followed were called Maiar.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Lamps ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Lamps}}<br />
<br />
The Years of the Lamps began shortly after the creation of Arda by the [[Valar]]. After the Valar entered the world, there was a light veiling the ground. The Valar took this light and concentrated it into two large lamps, [[Illuin]] and [[Ormal]]. The Vala [[Aulë]] forged great towers, one in the furthest north, and another in the deepest south. The Valar lived in the middle, at the island of [[Almaren]]. The end of the Years of the Lamps was marked by [[Morgoth|Melkor]]'s destruction of the Two Lamps.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Trees ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Trees}}<br />
<br />
Shortly after the destruction of the Two Lamps, [[Yavanna]] made the [[Two Trees]], named [[Telperion]] (the silver tree) and [[Laurelin]] (the gold tree) in the land of [[Aman]], where the Valar now lived. The Trees illumined Aman, leaving Middle-earth in darkness.<br />
<br />
The [[Awakening of the Elves|Elves awoke]] in [[Cuiviénen]] when the stars were Rekindled, beginning the [[Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar]]. Many, though not all, of the [[Elves]] were persuaded to go on the [[Great Journey]] westwards towards Aman. Along the journey several groups of Elves tarried, notably the [[Nandor]] and the [[Sindar]]. The three clans that arrived at Aman were the [[Vanyar]], [[Noldor|Ñoldor]] and the [[Teleri]].<br />
<br />
The Valar had captured Melkor and placed him in chains in Aman. After he appeared to repent and was released, he sowed great discord among the Elves, and stirred up rivalry between the Ñoldorin King [[Finwë]]'s two sons [[Fëanor]] and [[Fingolfin]]. Out of jealousy and hatred for the Silmarils&mdash;three gems crafted by Feänor that contained the light of the Two Trees&mdash;he stole them, killing Finwë who was guarding the jewels; then with the help of the creature [[Ungoliant]] he destroyed the Two Trees and escaped to Middle-earth.<br />
<br />
Bitter at the Valar's inactivity, Feänor and his house left to pursue Melkor, cursing him with the name 'Morgoth'. A larger host, commanded by [[Fingolfin]] followed him. They reached the Telerin port-city of [[Alqualondë]], and were forbidden to use the Telerin ships. Feänor decided to take them by force and thus the [[Kinslaying at Alqualondë|first Kinslaying]] ensued and only by the strength in numbers were the Teleri overcome and their fair ships stolen.<br />
<br />
Feänor's host sailed on the vessels, and burned them when he arrived in Middle-earth. Left behind, Fingolfin and his company crossed over to Middle-earth through [[Helcaraxë|the Grinding Ice]] in the far north. Around the same time, but separately, Galadriel and Celeborn set sail for Middle-earth without the permission of the Valar.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Sun ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Sun}}<br />
The Years of the Sun began when the Valar made the Sun and the Moon out of the final fruit of [[Laurelin]] and the final flower of [[Telperion]] and set them in the heavens. Thereafter years were reckoned in Middle-earth as they are in our own real world. The First Age of the Children of Ilúvatar continued into this new reckoning of time.<br />
<br />
==== First Age ==== <br />
{{main|First Age}}<br />
<br />
Feänor was soon lost in an attack on Morgoth's [[Balrogs]] - but his sons survived, and founded realms; the kingdoms of the House of Fingolfin.<br />
<br />
The Long Peace lasted hundreds of years; during which time [[Men]] arrived over the [[Blue Mountains]]. But the peace was not to last; and one by one the kingdoms &mdash; even the hidden ones of [[Gondolin]] and [[Doriath]] &mdash; fell.<br />
<br />
At the end of the age, all that remained of free Elves and Men in [[Beleriand]] was a settlement at the mouth of the River [[Sirion]] and another settlement on the isle of Balar. [[Eärendil]] had possession of a Silmaril, which his wife [[Elwing]]'s ancestors [[Beren]] and [[Lúthien]] had taken from Morgoth. But the Feänorians had a claim on the Silmaril still and so there was another Kinslaying. Eärendil and Elwing took the Silmaril across the [[Belegaer|Great Sea]], to beg the Valar for aid.<br />
<br />
They responded. Melkor was exiled into the Void; and most of his works were destroyed. This came at a terrible cost, as [[Beleriand]] itself was sunk.<br />
<br />
====Second Age====<br />
{{main|Second Age}}<br />
<br />
The Men who had remained faithful were given the island of [[Númenor]], in the middle of the Great Sea; whilst the Elves were allowed to return home.<br />
<br />
The Númenoreans became great seafarers, but became jealous of the Elves for their immortality. Meanwhile, in Middle-earth it became apparent that [[Sauron]], Morgoth's chief servant, was still active. He worked with Elven smiths in [[Eregion]] on the craft of rings, and forged [[the One Ring]] to dominate them all. The Elves noticed this and removed theirs.<br />
<br />
Towards the end of the age, the Númenoreans were growing increasingly proud. King [[Ar-Pharazôn]] humbled even Sauron and brought him to Númenor as a hostage. Sauron worked his way into Pharazôn's court, and became high priest in a cult of Melkor. Eventually, Pharazôn was persuaded to attempt to invade Aman, promised that immortality would result.<br />
<br />
[[Amandil]], chief of the faithful, sailed westward to warn the Valar of this. His son [[Elendil]] and grandsons [[Isildur]] and [[Anárion]] prepared to flee eastwards. When the King's men had landed on Aman, the Valar lay down their guardianship of the world and called for Ilúvatar to intervene.<br />
<br />
The world was changed into a sphere, and the straight road from Middle-earth to Aman was broken. Númenor was utterly destroyed, as was the fair body of Sauron. Elendil and his sons founded the realms of [[Gondor]] and [[Arnor]].<br />
<br />
Sauron arose again and challenged them. The Elves allied with the Men to form the [[Last Alliance]] which defeated him. His One Ring was taken from him by Isildur, but not destroyed.<br />
<br />
====Third Age====<br />
{{main|Third Age}}<br />
<br />
The Third Age saw the rise in power of the realms of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], and their fall. Arnor was divided into three petty Kingdoms, which fell one by one, whilst Gondor fell victim to [[Kin-strife]], plague, wainriders, and corsairs.<br />
<br />
By the time of ''The Lord of the Rings'', [[Sauron]] had recovered again, and was seeking the One Ring. He discovered that it was in the possession of a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] named [[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]], and sent out the [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]] to find him and retrieve it.<br />
<br />
The Ring-bearer, [[Frodo Baggins]], is sent to [[Rivendell]], where it is decided that the One Ring must be destroyed once and for all &mdash; and it can only be unmade in the fiery depths of [[Mount Doom]] where it was forged. He sets out on this quest with eight other companions who comprise ''The Fellowship of the Ring''.<br />
<br />
After a long and difficult journey, he and [[Samwise Gamgee]] finally complete the mission, succeeding largely due to an unforeseen event that was out of their control. [[Sauron]] is thus destroyed forever and they are lauded as heroes.<br />
<br />
[[Aragorn]] takes his place as King of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], at last restoring the line of Kings from the [[Stewards of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
====Fourth Age and after====<br />
{{main|Fourth Age}}<br />
<br />
The end of the Third Age marked the end of the involvement of the Elves in Mannish affairs, despite a short-lived revival of Elven presence in Gondor under [[Legolas]]. Most Elves that have lingered in Middle-earth leave for Valinor &mdash; those that remain behind "fade", and eventually diminish. A similar fate happens to the Dwarves: although [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] becomes an ally of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] and there are indications [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]] is refounded, and a colony is established under [[Gimli]] in the [[White Mountains]], they become ever more reclusive, and disappear from mannish history. Morgoth's creatures are almost wiped out and never recover. During the later Fourth Age the tales of the earlier Ages turn into legends, until they are eventually thought of as fantasies, as the heirs of the Númenóreans forget their heritage.<br />
<br />
Tolkien imagined that he lived perhaps about 6000 years after [[War of the Ring]], [[Ages#Further future?|in the Fifth, Sixth or Seventh age]].<br />
<br />
==End of Arda==<br />
{{main|Dagor Dagorath}}<br />
After contemplating [[Arda Marred|Arda's decay]], the Elves could deduce that Arda had to come to an end. There are also many mentions of this end happening with a Last Battle after Morgoth's return. After his defeat, it is said that Men and Ainur will make a [[Second Music of the Ainur|Second Music]] in front of Ilúvatar.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Chronology]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Fourth_Age&diff=338038Fourth Age2021-11-04T20:24:19Z<p>BartekChom: /* Further future? */ concentrated on the 4th Age ("had quickened"), the rest elsewhere</p>
<hr />
<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
The '''Fourth Age''' began after [[Sauron]] was finally defeated, when his [[The One Ring|Ruling Ring]] was destroyed, and the [[Keepers of the Three Rings]] left Middle-earth for the [[Valinor|Uttermost West]]. <br />
<br />
==History==<br />
The [[Third Age]] was held to have ended when Elrond left Middle-earth on [[29 September]] of {{TA|3021}}.<ref name=Calendars>{{App|Calendars}}</ref> There is no information on more than the first few centuries of this age, so it is not known when it ended, if it ever did, although it was probably shorter than 3 millennia.<ref name="Letter211"/> <br />
<br />
This age was marked by the recovery of the [[Númenor]]ean kingdoms of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], while the [[House of Durin]] retook [[Moria]] until the race of [[Dwarves]] failed.<ref>{{PM|Dwarves}}</ref> The [[Last Ship]] of the [[Elves]], carrying [[Círdan]], [[Celeborn]], and all remaining Elves of the [[First Age]] left Middle-earth some time after {{FoA|171}}.<ref name=Records/> Eventually that would lead to the final [[Dominion of Men]] over [[Arda]], coming together with the total waning of the [[Elves]] and other dwindling races, such as the [[Ents]] and probably the Dwarves.<br />
<br />
In a 1972 letter concerning ''[[The New Shadow]]'', Tolkien mentioned that Eldarion's reign would have lasted for about 100 years after the death of Aragorn.<ref name="L338">{{L|338}}</ref> <br />
<br />
==Further future?==<br />
A footnote in a letter written by Tolkien in [[1958]] suggests that the Fourth and [[Ages#Further future?|later ages]] had quickened, so Tolkien lived in the end of the Sixth Age or in the Seventh rather than in the end of the Fifth.<ref name="Letter211">{{L|211}}.</ref><br />
<br />
==Reckoning of years==<br />
Not all calendars in use in Middle-earth at that time reset their count of years to {{FoA|1}} in the same year, on the same date, or indeed at all. As such, years given for certain events in the Fourth Age differ according to the calendar used. <br />
<br />
The [[Shire-reckoning]] is the calendar system used for all dates in the [[Red Book]], with {{SR|1}} corresponding to {{TA|1601}}.<ref name=Hobbits>{{FR|Hobbits}}</ref> Years in Shire-reckoning did not restart at the end of the Third Age, rather it continued uninterrupted from {{SR|1421}} to {{SR|1422}}, and "in so far as the Hobbits took any account of the change of Age, they maintained that it began with [[2 Yule]] 1422."<ref name=Calendars/> This means that {{SR|1422}} is also {{TA|3022}} and {{FoA|1}} as far as dates in the Red Book are concerned.<br />
<br />
However, in [[Gondor]] and the rest of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] outside the Shire, the [[New Reckoning]] calendar entered use starting in {{TA|3019}}. Under this calendar, [[25 March]] {{TA|3021}} is the first day of {{FoA|1}}, some 9 months earlier than the new year in the Shire.<ref name=Calendars/> The [[Shire Calendar]] and the [[New Reckoning]] begin their years on different days: 2 Yule for the Shire and 25 March for the rest of the Reunited Kingdom.<ref group="note">As these days are named in the Shire Calendar; their New Reckoning equivalents are 7 [[Narvinyë]] and [[Yestarë]] respectively</ref> <br />
<br />
There are few dates given in the [[legendarium]] that require the reader to account for this difference, because most dates of the Fourth Age are already explicitly expressed in terms of the Shire Reckoning. For example, [[Legolas]] and [[Gimli]]'s departure from Middle-earth is given as {{SR|1541}}.<ref name="Later"/> The exceptions are both from the [[Note on the Shire Records]] and are as follows:<br />
<br />
* Tolkien explains that the text of ''The Lord of the Rings'' descends from a copy of the Red Book made in Gondor that bore the note "Findegil, King’s Writer, finished this work in IV 172."<ref name=Records>{{FR|Records}}</ref> The accompanying text notes the equivalent year {{SR|1592}}, which is {{FoA|171}} in the Shire Reckoning, so this note must have been written with regard to the New Reckoning calendar before 7 Narvinyë.<br />
* In the same paragraph, Tolkien refers to [[Peregrin Took]]'s retirement to Gondor in "IV 64."<ref name=Records>{{FR|Records}}</ref> We are told elsewhere that Peregrin and his companion [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] arrived in Gondor sometime between the autumn and the ending of {{SR|1484}}, which is {{FoA|63}} in the Shire Reckoning.<ref name="Later">{{App|Later}}</ref> As such, the stated "IV 64" must be in reference to the New Reckoning calendar, again, prior to 7 Narvinyë.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[Timeline/Fourth Age|Timeline of the Fourth Age]]<br />
* ''[[The New Shadow]]''<br />
<br />
{{references|note}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
<br />
* The [https://psarando.github.io/shire-reckoning Shire Reckoning] project, dedicated to simulations and detailed analysis of all the calendars of ''The Lord of the Rings'' [[Appendix D]].<br />
<br />
[[Category:Ages]]<br />
[[Category:Fourth Age]]<br />
[[de:Das Vierte Zeitalter]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/chronologie/quatrieme_age]]<br />
[[fi:Neljäs Aika]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ages&diff=338037Ages2021-11-04T19:49:53Z<p>BartekChom: /* Further future? */ the quote</p>
<hr />
<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
'''Ages''' are large spans of [[Time]] in which the [[Wise]] and the loremasters divided the history of [[Arda]]. The division was made according to large historical events such as the overthrowing of a [[Dark Lord]].<br />
==The Ages==<br />
===[[First Age]]===<br />
The First Age saw the ascent of the [[Elves]], [[Dwarves]] and [[Men]] and their [[Wars of Beleriand|wars]] against [[Morgoth]]. It ended with the [[War of Wrath]] and the drowning of [[Beleriand]]. [[Morgoth]] was captured by the [[Valar]], ending centuries of dominion in Beleriand.<ref>{{S|Earendil}}</ref><ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
===[[Second Age]]===<br />
In the Second Age the [[Edain]] prospered in [[Númenor]], but [[Sauron]], a servant of Morgoth also came to dominate the [[Westlands]]. The [[Rings of Power]] were created as one of such attempts. Sauron's influence also caused the [[Drowning of Númenor]] and the [[Changing of the World]]. The Age ended with the [[War of the Last Alliance]] and the defeat of [[Sauron]].<ref name=AB>{{App|B}}</ref><ref name=rings>{{S|Rings}}</ref><br />
<br />
===[[Third Age]]===<br />
The Third Age saw the gradual fading of the Elves and also the rise of Sauron against the [[Realms in Exile|Númenórean kingdoms]], until he was defeated during the [[War of the Ring]]. The Age ended some years later with the departure of the [[White Ship]] from [[Mithlond]].<ref name=rings/><ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
===[[Fourth Age]]===<br />
The Fourth Age was a time when the Elves faded while Dwarves, Men and [[Hobbits]] prospered and recovered after the fall of Sauron, until the [[Dominion of Men]].<ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
==Further future?==<br />
{{quote|For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time.|[[Aragorn]]<ref>{{TT|Riders}}</ref>}}<br />
Tolkien said in a letter written in [[1958]] that he imagined that the events of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' had happened approximately 6000 years earlier, so it was about the end of the Fifth Age if length of the Ages was unchanged, but they had probably quickened and it was about the end of the Sixth Age/beginning of the Seventh. However he did not explain the criteria of why the Ages should be shortened.<ref name="Letter211">{{L|211}}. Quotes: "I hope the, evidently long but undefined, gap(*) in time between the Fall of Barad-dur and our Days is sufficient for 'literary credibility', even for readers acquainted with what is known or surmised of 'pre-history'." "(*) I imagine the gap to be about 6000 years: that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were of about the same length as S.A. and T.A. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh."</ref><br />
<br />
Two years after that letter, Tolkien changed this idea and wrote that, instead, we were already in the year 1960 of the Seventh Age, indicating that this Age follows the Christian reckoning.<ref>{{NM|P1vi}}, p. 39</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*Ages of the [[Chaining of Melkor]]<br />
*[[Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar]]<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Ages]]<br />
[[Category:Measures]]<br />
[[Category:Periods]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=History_of_Arda&diff=338036History of Arda2021-11-04T19:29:36Z<p>BartekChom: /* Fourth Age and after */ two sources with different variants - link to a section with explanation</p>
<hr />
<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
The '''History of [[Arda]]''' is divided into three time periods, known as the [[Years of the Lamps]], [[Years of the Trees]] and [[Years of the Sun]]. A separate, overlapping chronology divides the history into 'Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar'. The first such Age began with the Awakening of the Elves during the Years of the Trees and continued for the first six centuries of the Years of the Sun. All the subsequent Ages took place during the Years of the Sun. Most Middle-earth stories take place in the first three Ages of the Children of Iluvatar.<br />
<br />
=== Music of the Ainur ===<br />
{{main|Music of the Ainur}}<br />
<br />
The supreme deity of Tolkien's universe is called [[Ilúvatar|Eru Ilúvatar]]. In the beginning, Ilúvatar created spirits named the [[Ainur]]. Ilúvatar made divine music with them. [[Morgoth|Melkor]], who was then one of the Ainur, broke the harmony of the music, until Ilúvatar began a third theme which the Ainur could not comprehend since they were not the source of it. The essence of their song symbolized the history of the whole universe and the [[Children of Ilúvatar]] that were to dwell in it &mdash; the [[Men]] and the [[Elves]].<br />
<br />
Then Il&uacute;vatar created [[Eä]], the universe itself, and the Ainur formed within it Arda, the Earth, "globed within the void": the world together with the airs is set apart from ''Kuma'', the "void" without. The first 15 of the Ainur that descended to Arda, and the most powerful ones, were called Valar, and the Ainur of lesser might that followed were called Maiar.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Lamps ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Lamps}}<br />
<br />
The Years of the Lamps began shortly after the creation of Arda by the [[Valar]]. After the Valar entered the world, there was a light veiling the ground. The Valar took this light and concentrated it into two large lamps, [[Illuin]] and [[Ormal]]. The Vala [[Aulë]] forged great towers, one in the furthest north, and another in the deepest south. The Valar lived in the middle, at the island of [[Almaren]]. The end of the Years of the Lamps was marked by [[Morgoth|Melkor]]'s destruction of the Two Lamps.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Trees ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Trees}}<br />
<br />
Shortly after the destruction of the Two Lamps, [[Yavanna]] made the [[Two Trees]], named [[Telperion]] (the silver tree) and [[Laurelin]] (the gold tree) in the land of [[Aman]], where the Valar now lived. The Trees illumined Aman, leaving Middle-earth in darkness.<br />
<br />
The [[Awakening of the Elves|Elves awoke]] in [[Cuiviénen]] when the stars were Rekindled, beginning the [[Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar]]. Many, though not all, of the [[Elves]] were persuaded to go on the [[Great Journey]] westwards towards Aman. Along the journey several groups of Elves tarried, notably the [[Nandor]] and the [[Sindar]]. The three clans that arrived at Aman were the [[Vanyar]], [[Noldor|Ñoldor]] and the [[Teleri]].<br />
<br />
The Valar had captured Melkor and placed him in chains in Aman. After he appeared to repent and was released, he sowed great discord among the Elves, and stirred up rivalry between the Ñoldorin King [[Finwë]]'s two sons [[Fëanor]] and [[Fingolfin]]. Out of jealousy and hatred for the Silmarils&mdash;three gems crafted by Feänor that contained the light of the Two Trees&mdash;he stole them, killing Finwë who was guarding the jewels; then with the help of the creature [[Ungoliant]] he destroyed the Two Trees and escaped to Middle-earth.<br />
<br />
Bitter at the Valar's inactivity, Feänor and his house left to pursue Melkor, cursing him with the name 'Morgoth'. A larger host, commanded by [[Fingolfin]] followed him. They reached the Telerin port-city of [[Alqualondë]], and were forbidden to use the Telerin ships. Feänor decided to take them by force and thus the [[Kinslaying at Alqualondë|first Kinslaying]] ensued and only by the strength in numbers were the Teleri overcome and their fair ships stolen.<br />
<br />
Feänor's host sailed on the vessels, and burned them when he arrived in Middle-earth. Left behind, Fingolfin and his company crossed over to Middle-earth through [[Helcaraxë|the Grinding Ice]] in the far north. Around the same time, but separately, Galadriel and Celeborn set sail for Middle-earth without the permission of the Valar.<br />
<br />
=== Years of the Sun ===<br />
{{main|Years of the Sun}}<br />
The Years of the Sun began when the Valar made the Sun and the Moon out of the final fruit of [[Laurelin]] and the final flower of [[Telperion]] and set them in the heavens. Thereafter years were reckoned in Middle-earth as they are in our own real world. The First Age of the Children of Ilúvatar continued into this new reckoning of time.<br />
<br />
==== First Age ==== <br />
{{main|First Age}}<br />
<br />
Feänor was soon lost in an attack on Morgoth's [[Balrogs]] - but his sons survived, and founded realms; the kingdoms of the House of Fingolfin.<br />
<br />
The Long Peace lasted hundreds of years; during which time [[Men]] arrived over the [[Blue Mountains]]. But the peace was not to last; and one by one the kingdoms &mdash; even the hidden ones of [[Gondolin]] and [[Doriath]] &mdash; fell.<br />
<br />
At the end of the age, all that remained of free Elves and Men in [[Beleriand]] was a settlement at the mouth of the River [[Sirion]] and another settlement on the isle of Balar. [[Eärendil]] had possession of a Silmaril, which his wife [[Elwing]]'s ancestors [[Beren]] and [[Lúthien]] had taken from Morgoth. But the Feänorians had a claim on the Silmaril still and so there was another Kinslaying. Eärendil and Elwing took the Silmaril across the [[Belegaer|Great Sea]], to beg the Valar for aid.<br />
<br />
They responded. Melkor was exiled into the Void; and most of his works were destroyed. This came at a terrible cost, as [[Beleriand]] itself was sunk.<br />
<br />
====Second Age====<br />
{{main|Second Age}}<br />
<br />
The Men who had remained faithful were given the island of [[Númenor]], in the middle of the Great Sea; whilst the Elves were allowed to return home.<br />
<br />
The Númenoreans became great seafarers, but became jealous of the Elves for their immortality. Meanwhile, in Middle-earth it became apparent that [[Sauron]], Morgoth's chief servant, was still active. He worked with Elven smiths in [[Eregion]] on the craft of rings, and forged [[the One Ring]] to dominate them all. The Elves noticed this and removed theirs.<br />
<br />
Towards the end of the age, the Númenoreans were growing increasingly proud. King [[Ar-Pharazôn]] humbled even Sauron and brought him to Númenor as a hostage. Sauron worked his way into Pharazôn's court, and became high priest in a cult of Melkor. Eventually, Pharazôn was persuaded to attempt to invade Aman, promised that immortality would result.<br />
<br />
[[Amandil]], chief of the faithful, sailed westward to warn the Valar of this. His son [[Elendil]] and grandsons [[Isildur]] and [[Anárion]] prepared to flee eastwards. When the King's men had landed on Aman, the Valar lay down their guardianship of the world and called for Ilúvatar to intervene.<br />
<br />
The world was changed into a sphere, and the straight road from Middle-earth to Aman was broken. Númenor was utterly destroyed, as was the fair body of Sauron. Elendil and his sons founded the realms of [[Gondor]] and [[Arnor]].<br />
<br />
Sauron arose again and challenged them. The Elves allied with the Men to form the [[Last Alliance]] which defeated him. His One Ring was taken from him by Isildur, but not destroyed.<br />
<br />
====Third Age====<br />
{{main|Third Age}}<br />
<br />
The Third Age saw the rise in power of the realms of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], and their fall. Arnor was divided into three petty Kingdoms, which fell one by one, whilst Gondor fell victim to [[Kin-strife]], plague, wainriders, and corsairs.<br />
<br />
By the time of ''The Lord of the Rings'', [[Sauron]] had recovered again, and was seeking the One Ring. He discovered that it was in the possession of a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] named [[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]], and sent out the [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]] to find him and retrieve it.<br />
<br />
The Ring-bearer, [[Frodo Baggins]], is sent to [[Rivendell]], where it is decided that the One Ring must be destroyed once and for all &mdash; and it can only be unmade in the fiery depths of [[Mount Doom]] where it was forged. He sets out on this quest with eight other companions who comprise ''The Fellowship of the Ring''.<br />
<br />
After a long and difficult journey, he and [[Samwise Gamgee]] finally complete the mission, succeeding largely due to an unforeseen event that was out of their control. [[Sauron]] is thus destroyed forever and they are lauded as heroes.<br />
<br />
[[Aragorn]] takes his place as King of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] of [[Arnor]] and [[Gondor]], at last restoring the line of Kings from the [[Stewards of Gondor]].<br />
<br />
====Fourth Age and after====<br />
{{main|Fourth Age}}<br />
<br />
The end of the Third Age marked the end of the involvement of the Elves in Mannish affairs, despite a short-lived revival of Elven presence in Gondor under [[Legolas]]. Most Elves that have lingered in Middle-earth leave for Valinor &mdash; those that remain behind "fade", and eventually diminish. A similar fate happens to the Dwarves: although [[Lonely Mountain|Erebor]] becomes an ally of the [[Reunited Kingdom]] and there are indications [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]] is refounded, and a colony is established under [[Gimli]] in the [[White Mountains]], they become ever more reclusive, and disappear from mannish history. Morgoth's creatures are almost wiped out and never recover. During the later Fourth Age the tales of the earlier Ages turn into legends, until they are eventually thought of as fantasies, as the heirs of the Númenóreans forget their heritage.<br />
<br />
Tolkien imagined that he lived about 6000 years after [[War of the Ring]], [[Ages#Further future?|in the Fifth, Sixth or Seventh age]].<br />
<br />
==End of Arda==<br />
{{main|Dagor Dagorath}}<br />
After contemplating [[Arda Marred|Arda's decay]], the Elves could deduce that Arda had to come to an end. There are also many mentions of this end happening with a Last Battle after Morgoth's return. After his defeat, it is said that Men and Ainur will make a [[Second Music of the Ainur|Second Music]] in front of Ilúvatar.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Chronology]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ages&diff=338035Ages2021-11-04T19:26:12Z<p>BartekChom: /* Further future? */ 3 "about" → 2 " about"+"approximately"</p>
<hr />
<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
'''Ages''' are large spans of [[Time]] in which the [[Wise]] and the loremasters divided the history of [[Arda]]. The division was made according to large historical events such as the overthrowing of a [[Dark Lord]].<br />
==The Ages==<br />
===[[First Age]]===<br />
The First Age saw the ascent of the [[Elves]], [[Dwarves]] and [[Men]] and their [[Wars of Beleriand|wars]] against [[Morgoth]]. It ended with the [[War of Wrath]] and the drowning of [[Beleriand]]. [[Morgoth]] was captured by the [[Valar]], ending centuries of dominion in Beleriand.<ref>{{S|Earendil}}</ref><ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
===[[Second Age]]===<br />
In the Second Age the [[Edain]] prospered in [[Númenor]], but [[Sauron]], a servant of Morgoth also came to dominate the [[Westlands]]. The [[Rings of Power]] were created as one of such attempts. Sauron's influence also caused the [[Drowning of Númenor]] and the [[Changing of the World]]. The Age ended with the [[War of the Last Alliance]] and the defeat of [[Sauron]].<ref name=AB>{{App|B}}</ref><ref name=rings>{{S|Rings}}</ref><br />
<br />
===[[Third Age]]===<br />
The Third Age saw the gradual fading of the Elves and also the rise of Sauron against the [[Realms in Exile|Númenórean kingdoms]], until he was defeated during the [[War of the Ring]]. The Age ended some years later with the departure of the [[White Ship]] from [[Mithlond]].<ref name=rings/><ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
===[[Fourth Age]]===<br />
The Fourth Age was a time when the Elves faded while Dwarves, Men and [[Hobbits]] prospered and recovered after the fall of Sauron, until the [[Dominion of Men]].<ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
==Further future?==<br />
{{quote|For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time.|[[Aragorn]]<ref>{{TT|Riders}}</ref>}}<br />
Tolkien said in a letter written in [[1958]] that he imagined that the events of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' had happened approximately 6000 years earlier, so it was about the end of the Fifth Age if length of the Ages was unchanged, but they had probably quickened and it was about the end of the Sixth Age/beginning of the Seventh. However he did not explain the criteria of why the Ages should be shortened.<ref name="Letter211">{{L|211}}</ref><br />
<br />
Two years after that letter, Tolkien changed this idea and wrote that, instead, we were already in the year 1960 of the Seventh Age, indicating that this Age follows the Christian reckoning.<ref>{{NM|P1vi}}, p. 39</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*Ages of the [[Chaining of Melkor]]<br />
*[[Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar]]<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Ages]]<br />
[[Category:Measures]]<br />
[[Category:Periods]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Ages&diff=338034Ages2021-11-04T19:19:01Z<p>BartekChom: /* Further future? */ I trust the quote from http://www.faqs.org/faqs/tolkien/faq/part1/</p>
<hr />
<div>{{History of Arda}}<br />
'''Ages''' are large spans of [[Time]] in which the [[Wise]] and the loremasters divided the history of [[Arda]]. The division was made according to large historical events such as the overthrowing of a [[Dark Lord]].<br />
==The Ages==<br />
===[[First Age]]===<br />
The First Age saw the ascent of the [[Elves]], [[Dwarves]] and [[Men]] and their [[Wars of Beleriand|wars]] against [[Morgoth]]. It ended with the [[War of Wrath]] and the drowning of [[Beleriand]]. [[Morgoth]] was captured by the [[Valar]], ending centuries of dominion in Beleriand.<ref>{{S|Earendil}}</ref><ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
===[[Second Age]]===<br />
In the Second Age the [[Edain]] prospered in [[Númenor]], but [[Sauron]], a servant of Morgoth also came to dominate the [[Westlands]]. The [[Rings of Power]] were created as one of such attempts. Sauron's influence also caused the [[Drowning of Númenor]] and the [[Changing of the World]]. The Age ended with the [[War of the Last Alliance]] and the defeat of [[Sauron]].<ref name=AB>{{App|B}}</ref><ref name=rings>{{S|Rings}}</ref><br />
<br />
===[[Third Age]]===<br />
The Third Age saw the gradual fading of the Elves and also the rise of Sauron against the [[Realms in Exile|Númenórean kingdoms]], until he was defeated during the [[War of the Ring]]. The Age ended some years later with the departure of the [[White Ship]] from [[Mithlond]].<ref name=rings/><ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
===[[Fourth Age]]===<br />
The Fourth Age was a time when the Elves faded while Dwarves, Men and [[Hobbits]] prospered and recovered after the fall of Sauron, until the [[Dominion of Men]].<ref name=AB/><br />
<br />
==Further future?==<br />
{{quote|For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time.|[[Aragorn]]<ref>{{TT|Riders}}</ref>}}<br />
Tolkien said in a letter written in [[1958]] that he imagined that the events of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' had happened about 6000 years earlier, so it was about the end of the Fifth Age if length of the Ages was unchanged, but they had probably quickened and it was about the end of the Sixth Age/beginning of the Seventh. However he did not explain the criteria of why the Ages should be shortened.<ref name="Letter211">{{L|211}}</ref><br />
<br />
Two years after that letter, Tolkien changed this idea and wrote that, instead, we were already in the year 1960 of the Seventh Age, indicating that this Age follows the Christian reckoning.<ref>{{NM|P1vi}}, p. 39</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*Ages of the [[Chaining of Melkor]]<br />
*[[Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar]]<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Ages]]<br />
[[Category:Measures]]<br />
[[Category:Periods]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Hobbits&diff=337691Hobbits2021-10-24T20:48:43Z<p>BartekChom: /* History */ names visible</p>
<hr />
<div>{{sources}}<br />
{{disambig-more|Hobbits|[[The Hobbit (disambiguation)]]}}{{people infobox<br />
| name=Hobbits<br />
| image=[[File:Inger Edelfeldt - A Long Expected Party.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="[[:File:Inger Edelfeldt - A Long Expected Party.jpg|A Long Expected Party]]" by [[Inger Edelfeldt]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=Banakil, Halflings, Holbytlan, Kuduk, Little People, Periannath<br />
| origin=<br />
| location=[[The Shire]], [[Bree-land]]<br />
| affiliation=[[Host of the West (Arnor)|Host of the West]]<br />
| rivalry=<br />
| language=[[Hobbitish]] (a regional dialect of [[Westron]])<br />
| members=[[Marcho]] and [[Blanco]], [[Sméagol]], [[Bandobras Took]], [[Bilbo Baggins]], [[Frodo Baggins]]<br />
| lifespan=c. 96<ref name="LOTRProjectStats">{{webcite|author=Emil Johansson|articleurl=http://lotrproject.com/statistics/#lifeexpectancy|articlename=Lord of the Rings in Statistics|website=[http://lotrproject.com/ Lord of the Rings Project]|accessed=09-September-2012}}</ref><br />
| distinctions=[[Gift of Men|Mortality]], diminutive stature, furry feet<br />
| height=2-4 ft or 0.6-1.2 m (often less than three feet in later days)<br />
| hair=Typically curly brown, rarely blond (until the [[Fourth Age]]), and white and grey in later years<br />
| skin=Nut-brown to White<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
}}<br />
{{quote|In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit.|''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[An Unexpected Party]]"}}<br />
'''Hobbits''' were a small race that typically dwelt underground, believed to be related to [[Men]]. They played little role in history, save during the [[War of the Ring]].<br />
<br />
==Description and culture==<br />
{{quote|There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly [[Eriador|West]]. Some courage and some wisdom, blended in measure. If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.|[[Thorin Oakenshield]] in ''[[The Hobbit]]'', "[[The Return Journey]]"}}<br />
<br />
Hobbits were between three to four feet tall, the average height being 3 feet 6 inches (some seldom exceeded 3<ref name=atani>{{PM|Atani}}</ref>), with short legs, slightly pointed ears<ref>{{L|27}}</ref> and furry feet with leathery soles, resulting in most never wearing shoes. Compared to the [[Dwarves]] they are a bit shorter and less stout or stocky. Early in their recorded history, Hobbits were divided in three kinds with different customs and temperament. The '''[[Stoors]]''' grew facial hair and had an affinity for water, boats and swimming and wore boots; the '''[[Fallohides]]''' were fair, tall and slim, an adventurous people, friendlier and more open to outsiders. Finally, the '''[[Harfoots]]''' were the most numerous and instituted the living in burrows. In later days the Harfoot traits became the "norm".<br />
<br />
Hobbits had a life span somewhat longer than Men of non-[[Númenórean]] descent, averaging between 90 and 100 years. The time at which a young hobbit "came of age" was 33.<ref name=FRI1>{{FR|I1}}</ref> The two oldest-living recorded hobbits (except [[Gollum]]) were The [[Gerontius Took|Old Took]] (who reached the age of 130) and [[Bilbo Baggins]] (who surpassed him at 131). <br />
<br />
By nature they were of gentle disposition, neither cruel nor vindictive.<ref>{{PM|XNotes}}, #55</ref> Slow to quarrel, they never had been warlike, and never fought among themselves, nor hunted for sport; by the late Third Age the Shire-hobbits knew of weapons only as trophies or useless trinkets. However they were skilled with all kind of tools, as well as arms when there was a need; they were keen-eyed and used the bow well, and also the stones, successfully throwed against trespassing beasts.<br />
<br />
Throughout their history Hobbits had showed unparalleled skill, courage and also endurance and resistance in times of danger and terror. During their [[Wandering Days]] Hobbits demonstrated an easiness to adapt to the environments they visited and adopted the customs and languages of the peoples they were in contact with. In the Shire, they had settled with a closed and comfort-loving lifestyle; they were fond of an unadventurous bucolic life of farming, eating, smoking [[pipe-weed]], socializing and talking about genealogies. Hobbits also liked to drink ale in inns, and ate at least six meals a day when they could get them. Every [[Highday]] and after noon, Hobbits celebrated a small holiday with evening feasts. <ref name=cal>{{App|Calendars}}</ref><br />
<br />
However, their hidden potentials resurfaced in difficult times; in the [[Long Winter]], [[Gandalf]] admired their uncomplaining courage and pity for one another, thanks to which they survived.<ref>{{UT|Erebor}}</ref> Another example of Hobbitish hardiness and resistant nature, was [[Gollum]], who despite using [[the One Ring]] for years, did not transform into a [[Wraiths|Wraith]] under the Ring's evil power (unlike the [[Nazgûl|nine Mannish Kings]]).<ref><br />
{{webcite|author=Stan Brown|website=FAQ of the Rings|articleurl=http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-GollumWraith |articlename=Why hadn’t Gollum turned into a wraith long ago?}}</ref> These surprising Hobbit traits also were tested and proven during the [[Quest of Erebor]] and, most notably, the [[War of the Ring]].<br />
<br />
===Clans and families===<br />
Hobbits were universally monogamous and "[[Wikipedia:Patrilineality|patrilinear]]" (family names descended in the male-line) and normally the titular family head was the eldest male, but his wife had an equal, but separate status. In the large powerful families (such as the [[Took Family|Tooks]]) the head of what we would call a clan was the eldest male of the most direct line of descent. If the master died first his titular headship of the clan was taken by his wife and, only after her death, by their son.<br />
<br />
Chieftains and leaders of their clans and tribes were typically of Fallohide kind, as they were by nature more adventurous.<br />
<br />
The custom in the "younger" families was that when the head had no male heir, the headship passed to the daughter's eldest son. In such cases the heir took the name of his mother’s family while retaining the father’s family name in second place; this was the case with [[Otho Sackville-Baggins]], who obtained headship of the Sackvilles through his mother [[Camellia Sackville|Camellia]].<ref name=L214/><br />
<br />
===Gift-giving===<br />
The Hobbits generally exchanged gifts as a form of "payment" for services but also of thanksgiving in favors and friendships. According to an ancient custom, a hobbit baby, shortly after birth and its name-announcement, was given a gift by the head of the family, as a token of accepting it into the family (on the rare cases of adoptions, parents gave gifts to their new child). Gifts then became a means of recognizing family membership, and the head of the family ritually gave something, even if only a token ([[mathom]]), to a [[ribadyan|birthday celebrant]].<br />
<br />
On its third birthday, a hobbit child gave presents to their parents, that typically was something that was personally found, or produced (made or grown). This may have been extended to other ages and relatives resulting to the celebrant both receiving and giving a gift. Birthdays had considerable social importance, and customs were regulated by fairly strict etiquette, usually reduced to formalities.<ref name=L214>{{L|214}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Origin==<br />
[[File:Lidia Postma - Hobbits comparison.jpg|thumb|left|The three kinds of Hobbits. Arty by Lidia Postma]]<br />
Hobbits were considered Men. Nearly all scholars agree that Men were closely related to Hobbits, far more closely than Men were to either [[Elves]] or [[Dwarves]]. It was thus commonly assumed that Hobbits were among the Younger [[Children of Ilúvatar]] and were the result of the same act of creation as Men. This would imply that Hobbits had the [[Gift of Men]] to pass entirely beyond [[Arda]].<br />
<br />
It is supposed that Hobbits branched out from Men as a race in the [[Elder Days]], but they don't appear at all in the chronicles of the [[Elves]].<ref name=Concerning>{{FR|Hobbits}}</ref> Their exact origin is unknown but in their early days they could have been primitive and "savage".<ref name=atani/> Apparently they survived in [[Middle-earth]] for millennia far from importance and the knowledge of stronger races; they come into the records not earlier than the early [[Third Age]] where they were living in the [[Vales of Anduin]] in [[Rhovanion|Wilderland]], between [[Mirkwood]] and the [[Misty Mountains]]. They have lost the genealogical details of how they are related to the rest of mankind. While they stayed there, the [[Northmen]] knew them. Their descendants, the [[Rohirrim]], had that memory of the ''[[holbytla]]n'' and they remained an object of lore until they contacted them during the War of the Ring. Many old words and names in "[[Hobbitish]]" are cognates of words in [[Rohirric]], so much so that even someone without linguistic training could make out the relation ([[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] would later write an entire book devoted to the relationship, ''[[Old Words and Names in the Shire]]'').<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
<!--"Events" in Eriador infobox links here--><br />
[[File:Robin Wood - Mathom lore.jpg|thumb|''Mathom lore'' by Robin Wood]]<br />
While situated in the Valley of the Anduin River the Hobbits lived close by the Northmen. Some time near the beginning of the [[Third Age]], they were uneasy because of the growing numbers of [[Easterlings|alien men]] from the [[East]] who passed the [[Greenwood]] and harassed the Northmen and no doubt they also sensed the rising [[Shadow]] of [[Dol Guldur]].<ref name=atani/> They took the arduous task of crossing the [[Misty Mountains]], beginning thus their '''[[Wandering Days]]'''. Some of the Stoors, however, returned to that place, and it is from these people that [[Gollum]] would come many years later. <br />
<br />
The Hobbits took different routes in their journey westward, and eventually they came to a land between the River [[Baranduin]] (which they renamed ''Brandywine'') and the [[Weather Hills]]. Along the way they founded many settlements (most of them disappeared and were forgotten), and the divisions between the Hobbit-kinds began to blur. Only [[Bree]] and a few surrounding villages lasted to the end of the Third Age.<br />
<br />
In the year {{TA|1601}}, two Fallohide brothers, [[Marcho]] and [[Blanco]], decided to cross the River Brandywine and settle on the other side. Large numbers of Hobbits followed them, and most of their former territory was depopulated. The new land that they found on the west bank of the Brandywine is called [[The Shire]]. <br />
<br />
Hobbits became first famous and a renowned part of the wider history during the [[Quest of Erebor]] ([[Bilbo Baggins]] was the first ever famous Hobbit) and later during the [[War of the Ring]]. In the later [[Ages]] they have dwindled and their numbers have diminished and although they still linger in the North-west of the Old World, they are rarely seen; they avoid the [[Big Folk]] with dismay, using their art of disappearing.<ref name=Concerning/><br />
<br />
==Some well-known Hobbits==<br />
[[File:Anke Eißmann - Frodo and Bilbo.jpg|thumb|''Frodo and Bilbo'' by [[Anke Eißmann]]]]<br />
* [[Bilbo Baggins]]<br />
* [[Frodo Baggins]]<br />
* [[Samwise Gamgee|Samwise "Sam" Gamgee]]<br />
* [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Meriadoc "Merry" Brandybuck]]<br />
* [[Peregrin Took|Peregrin "Pippin" Took]]<br />
* [[Fredegar Bolger|Fredegar "Fatty" Bolger]]<br />
* [[Otho Sackville-Baggins|Otho]] and [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]]<br />
* [[Lobelia Sackville-Baggins]]<br />
* [[Gerontius Took|Old Took]]<br />
* [[Bandobras Took|Bullroarer Took]]<br />
* [[Sméagol]] (who became the creature [[Gollum]])<br />
* [[Déagol]]<br />
<br />
Though in ''[[The Hobbit]]'' it is mentioned that [[Gandalf]] "was responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures," no female Hobbits are depicted in [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s stories doing so; however Hobbit women do appear in his works, such as the formidable [[Lobelia Sackville-Baggins]] and Sam's wife [[Rose Cotton|Rose Cotton]].<br />
<br />
== Etymology ==<br />
:''This section explains the fictional etymology of the word in the linguistic context of Middle-earth; for the actual origin of the word see the section [[#Inspiration]] below''.<br />
''Hobbit'' was derived from [[Old English]] ''[[holbytla]]'', "hole-dweller" which represents the [[Rohirric]] language.<ref>{{HM|RW}}, p. 144</ref> In a letter, Tolkien commented on the pronounciation of the word ''hobbit'': "I am sure many hobbits drop their ''h''s like most rural folk in England".<ref>[[J.R.R. Tolkien]], "[[Letter to Alina Dadlez (19 September 1962)]]" (letter); quoted in {{CG|RG}}, p. 1036</ref><br />
<br />
The relationship hobbit/holbytla parallels the original [[Westron]] ''[[Kuduk]]'' (Hobbit), derived from the actual Rohirric ''[[kûd-dûkan]]'' (holbytla, hole dweller). This name obviously derives from the times when the hobbits lived at the [[Vales of Anduin]] with the [[Northmen]].<ref name="Road">{{TT|III8}}</ref><ref name="Translation">{{App|F2}}</ref><br />
<br />
Hobbits were also called ''[[Halflings]]'' by the [[Dúnedain]], first when they still measured 2 [[ranga]]r tall; twice as high as a hobbit who would reach only 1 ranga. The word retained even when the later generations of Dúnedain became shorter. However, the term is slightly offensive to Hobbits, as to themselves they are not 'half' of anything, and certainly do not use the term to refer to themselves.{{fact}}<br />
<br />
''Halfling'' represents a translation of [[Westron]] ''[[banakil]]''. In [[Quenya]] the word is ''[[perian|Perian(d-)]]'' pl. ''Periandi''<ref>{{webcite|articleurl=http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/856-most_expensive_Tolkien_book_in_the_world.php|articlename=Most expensive Tolkien bok in the world|website=[http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/index.php TolkienLibrary.com]}}, dedication to [[Elaine Griffiths]]</ref> and in [[Sindarin]] ''[[Perian]]'' pl. ''Periannath''.<ref>{{RK|Cormallen}}</ref><br />
<br />
*''See also: [[Wikipedia:Hobbit (word)]]''<br />
<br />
==Inspiration==<br />
{{quote|I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food [...]; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour [...]; I go to bed late and get up late [...]. I do not travel much.|[[J.R.R. Tolkien]]|[[Letter 213]]}}<br />
<br />
Tolkien's etymology for 'Hobbit' is interesting as well: the word was obviously constructed meaningless as a spontaneous inspiration, without prior intent, but it would have been natural for him to see in it the German prefix ''hob'' meaning ''small'' (e.g. ''[[hobgoblin]]'', ''hobbledehoy'' and ''hobyah''). However this prefix dates back "only" to the 13th century, too late by Tolkien's standards; thence when later he began to work out the language relations further (see: [[Mannish]]) he decided that it could be a derived form of an [[Old English]] word such as ''[[holbytla]]''.<br />
<br />
According to Tolkien, the word ''hobbit'' came first, and then he decided to write ''[[The Hobbit]]'' around it. As a university lecturer, he was in the process of correcting reports when he started scribbling on a blank piece of paper and wrote, "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit", and the rest of the story sprang from that.<ref>[[Humphrey Carpenter]], ''[[J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography]]'', p.172</ref> The idea of a little hole dwelling creature was introduced to Tolkien by one of his students in a story he had written.<br />
<br />
It was revealed recently that the word pre-dated Tolkien's usage, though with a different meaning).<ref name="annot">{{HM|AH}}</ref> Tolkien's concept of hobbits, in turn, seems to have been inspired by Edward Wyke Smith's 1927 children's book ''[[Wikipedia:The Marvellous Land of Snergs|The Marvellous Land of Snergs]]'', and by Sinclair Lewis's 1922 novel ''[[Wikipedia:Babbitt (novel)|Babbitt]]''. Tolkien wrote to [[W.H. Auden]] that ''The Marvellous Land of Snergs'' "was probably an unconscious source-book for the Hobbits"<ref name=annot/> and he told an interviewer that the word ''hobbit'' "might have been associated with Sinclair Lewis's ''Babbitt''" who enjoys the comforts of his home.<br />
<br />
The name ''hobbit'' had previously appeared in an obscure "[[Wikipedia:Denham Tracts|list of spirits]]" by Michael Denham, which includes several repetitions. There is no evidence to suggest Tolkien used this as a source &mdash; indeed he spent many years trying to find out whether he really did coin the word. Denham's "hobbit spirits" (which are never referenced anywhere except in the long list) have no obvious relation to Tolkien's Hobbits, other than the name (which may possibly imply hob- "small"): Tolkien's Hobbits are small humans, not spirits. Nonetheless, some few people have suggested that the reference in the Denham list should invalidate the trademark.<br />
<br />
== In popular usage ==<br />
"Hobbit" is a trademark owned by the [[Middle-earth Enterprises]], as some of names, places and artifacts included in ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]]. For this reason [[Dungeons and Dragons]] and other fantasy tend to refer to Hobbits and Hobbit-like races rather as '''Halflings''' (''hin'' in the Mystara universe, ''hurthlings'' in Ancient Domains of Mystery).<br />
<br />
''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis Homo floresiensis]'', a possible species in the genus Homo (thus, related to humans) discovered in 2004, has been informally dubbed a "hobbit" by its discoverers due to its small size.<br />
<br />
[[Tolkien fandom|Fans]] have noted that in depictions and adaptations such as [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]], Hobbits are shown with unusually large feet, a conception probably influenced by the widespread art of [[the Brothers Hildebrandt]]. However, Tolkien himself never mentioned that large feet was a general feature of Hobbits.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_printable;post=365823;guest=38267446|articlename=Big Feet|dated=|website=[http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?guest=35804230 The One Ring Forums]|accessed=2 September 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Hobbits| ]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/peuples/hobbits/hobbits]]<br />
[[de:Hobbits]]<br />
[[fi:Hobitit]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Princess&diff=337690Princess2021-10-24T20:20:08Z<p>BartekChom: /* External links */ http://www.tolkienbooks.net/php/princess.php!</p>
<hr />
<div>{{expansion}}<!-- some info on license, et cetera would be nice.--><br />
[[Image:The New Princess and Girl - October 10 1964.gif|thumb|right|200px|The first issue to feature ''The Hobbit''.]]<br />
'''Princess''', also known as '''The New Princess and Girl''', was a weekly magazine aimed at girls, published by Fleetway. From [[10 October|October 10]], [[1964]] to [[16 January|January 16]], [[1965]], it featured an abridged, fifteen part serialization of ''[[The Hobbit]]''. <br />
<br />
Each episode was published on two pages, and featured five images by [[Ferguson Dewar]]. <br />
<br />
===See also===<br />
* [[:Category:Princess issues|Covers of Princess issues]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
* [http://www.tolkienbooks.net/php/princess.php Princess article at TolkienBooks.net]<br />
{{title|italics}}<br />
[[Category:Comics]]<br />
[[Category:Magazines]]<br />
[[Category:Publications by title]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Princess&diff=337689Princess2021-10-24T20:19:16Z<p>BartekChom: now php</p>
<hr />
<div>{{expansion}}<!-- some info on license, et cetera would be nice.--><br />
[[Image:The New Princess and Girl - October 10 1964.gif|thumb|right|200px|The first issue to feature ''The Hobbit''.]]<br />
'''Princess''', also known as '''The New Princess and Girl''', was a weekly magazine aimed at girls, published by Fleetway. From [[10 October|October 10]], [[1964]] to [[16 January|January 16]], [[1965]], it featured an abridged, fifteen part serialization of ''[[The Hobbit]]''. <br />
<br />
Each episode was published on two pages, and featured five images by [[Ferguson Dewar]]. <br />
<br />
===See also===<br />
* [[:Category:Princess issues|Covers of Princess issues]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
* [http://tolkienbooks.net/html/princess.php Princess article at TolkienBooks.net]<br />
{{title|italics}}<br />
[[Category:Comics]]<br />
[[Category:Magazines]]<br />
[[Category:Publications by title]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:V%C3%ABann%C3%AB&diff=337685Talk:Vëannë2021-10-24T15:33:34Z<p>BartekChom: I am sorry. Thank you very much again.</p>
<hr />
<div>I see that she was a little girl from the [[Cottage of Lost Play]]. Is it written somewhere that she was an elf? [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 17:11, 20 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Expansion is needed, but I was told by [[User:Mith|Mith]] not to add without checking and really, especially in this case, there is a big risk that I am retranslating from Polish wrongly (actually I am not sure that I am not misinterpreting the details), so I am proposing additions on the talk page:<br />
:'''Vëannë Melinir''' was an [[Elf]] of [[Tol Eressëa]] according to the early version of the [[legendarium]] in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''. She was a little girl living in the [[Cottage of Lost Play]], being the teller of the ''[[Tale of Tinúviel]]''.<br />
: She climbed on Eriol's knee when he sat tired after playing with children and asked him to recount about men and their children in Great Lands ("Did you have a garden like ours?"). After he told her about wars, she concluded that they are terrible. When Eriol asked the children to tell some tale they had heard instead, she volunteered to tell the Tale of Tinúviel.<ref>after the first star</ref> She argued with [[Ausir (boy)|Ausir]], who suggested [[Qenya|Elvish]] names ''[[Thingol|Tinwë Linto]]'' and ''[[Melian|Wendelin]]'' instead of [[Gnomish]] ''[[Thingol|Tinwelint]]'' and ''[[Melian|Gwendeling]]''. She claimed that much earlier, when she was on the Path of Dreams, she saw Gwendeling and [[Luthien|Tinúviel]]. She started the story describing Gwendeling. After she described the death of [[Beren]], Eriol said that such a sad story heard from the mouth of a beautiful maiden calls for compassion. She wept and said that she does not remember what was later. Other children, including Ausir, helped her say that Beren (then a Gnome) and Luthien returned to life, but as mortals. Then Eriol said that he was not expecting such a story from little maidens of [[Cottage of Lost Play|Mar Vanwa Tyaliéva]]. She answered that she learned it by heart from books but does not understand it fully.<ref>after the subheader "The tale of Tinúviel"</ref><br />
<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
She climbed on a knee, so she was really a little child. The form of her question makes me start to believe that she was an elf. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 21:25, 23 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Given the context and her knowledge, she was an Elf no doubt. BartekChom, I'll add and improve your addition, thanks. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:49, 24 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you vary much. If you are convinced that she was an elf, I can agree. However I would like to ask whether you compared what I wrote with the book. I see that you have added page numbers, but I cannot believe that I retranslated the quote perfectly. I am sorry, probably I should not have written a quote that is a translation from Polish, at least not without a clear note. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 13:11, 24 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I didn't notice the quote. Fixed. Feel free to include info in the articles, we can correct it, but avoid direct quotes if you don't have the English book. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 14:36, 24 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: I am sorry. Thank you very much again. I did not expect that Tolkien used ''thou'' - I was sure that the translator had to guess whether it was second person singular or plural. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 15:33, 24 October 2021 (UTC)</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:V%C3%ABann%C3%AB&diff=337671Talk:Vëannë2021-10-24T13:11:24Z<p>BartekChom: I retranslated the quote perfectly?</p>
<hr />
<div>I see that she was a little girl from the [[Cottage of Lost Play]]. Is it written somewhere that she was an elf? [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 17:11, 20 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Expansion is needed, but I was told by [[User:Mith|Mith]] not to add without checking and really, especially in this case, there is a big risk that I am retranslating from Polish wrongly (actually I am not sure that I am not misinterpreting the details), so I am proposing additions on the talk page:<br />
:'''Vëannë Melinir''' was an [[Elf]] of [[Tol Eressëa]] according to the early version of the [[legendarium]] in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''. She was a little girl living in the [[Cottage of Lost Play]], being the teller of the ''[[Tale of Tinúviel]]''.<br />
: She climbed on Eriol's knee when he sat tired after playing with children and asked him to recount about men and their children in Great Lands ("Did you have a garden like ours?"). After he told her about wars, she concluded that they are terrible. When Eriol asked the children to tell some tale they had heard instead, she volunteered to tell the Tale of Tinúviel.<ref>after the first star</ref> She argued with [[Ausir (boy)|Ausir]], who suggested [[Qenya|Elvish]] names ''[[Thingol|Tinwë Linto]]'' and ''[[Melian|Wendelin]]'' instead of [[Gnomish]] ''[[Thingol|Tinwelint]]'' and ''[[Melian|Gwendeling]]''. She claimed that much earlier, when she was on the Path of Dreams, she saw Gwendeling and [[Luthien|Tinúviel]]. She started the story describing Gwendeling. After she described the death of [[Beren]], Eriol said that such a sad story heard from the mouth of a beautiful maiden calls for compassion. She wept and said that she does not remember what was later. Other children, including Ausir, helped her say that Beren (then a Gnome) and Luthien returned to life, but as mortals. Then Eriol said that he was not expecting such a story from little maidens of [[Cottage of Lost Play|Mar Vanwa Tyaliéva]]. She answered that she learned it by heart from books but does not understand it fully.<ref>after the subheader "The tale of Tinúviel"</ref><br />
<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
She climbed on a knee, so she was really a little child. The form of her question makes me start to believe that she was an elf. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 21:25, 23 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Given the context and her knowledge, she was an Elf no doubt. BartekChom, I'll add and improve your addition, thanks. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 09:49, 24 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you vary much. If you are convinced that she was an elf, I can agree. However I would like to ask whether you compared what I wrote with the book. I see that you have added page numbers, but I cannot believe that I retranslated the quote perfectly. I am sorry, probably I should not have written a quote that is a translation from Polish, at least not without a clear note. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 13:11, 24 October 2021 (UTC)</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:V%C3%ABann%C3%AB&diff=337600Talk:Vëannë2021-10-23T21:25:04Z<p>BartekChom: Expansion is needed, but I was told by User:Mith| not to add without checking</p>
<hr />
<div>I see that she was a little girl from the [[Cottage of Lost Play]]. Is it written somewhere that she was an elf? [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 17:11, 20 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Expansion is needed, but I was told by [[User:Mith|Mith]] not to add without checking and really, especially in this case, there is a big risk that I am retranslating from Polish wrongly (actually I am not sure that I am not misinterpreting the details), so I am proposing additions on the talk page:<br />
:'''Vëannë Melinir''' was an [[Elf]] of [[Tol Eressëa]] according to the early version of the [[legendarium]] in ''[[The Book of Lost Tales]]''. She was a little girl living in the [[Cottage of Lost Play]], being the teller of the ''[[Tale of Tinúviel]]''.<br />
: She climbed on Eriol's knee when he sat tired after playing with children and asked him to recount about men and their children in Great Lands ("Did you have a garden like ours?"). After he told her about wars, she concluded that they are terrible. When Eriol asked the children to tell some tale they had heard instead, she volunteered to tell the Tale of Tinúviel.<ref>after the first star</ref> She argued with [[Ausir (boy)|Ausir]], who suggested [[Qenya|Elvish]] names ''[[Thingol|Tinwë Linto]]'' and ''[[Melian|Wendelin]]'' instead of [[Gnomish]] ''[[Thingol|Tinwelint]]'' and ''[[Melian|Gwendeling]]''. She claimed that much earlier, when she was on the Path of Dreams, she saw Gwendeling and [[Luthien|Tinúviel]]. She started the story describing Gwendeling. After she described the death of [[Beren]], Eriol said that such a sad story heard from the mouth of a beautiful maiden calls for compassion. She wept and said that she does not remember what was later. Other children, including Ausir, helped her say that Beren (then a Gnome) and Luthien returned to life, but as mortals. Then Eriol said that he was not expecting such a story from little maidens of [[Cottage of Lost Play|Mar Vanwa Tyaliéva]]. She answered that she learned it by heart from books but does not understand it fully.<ref>after the subheader "The tale of Tinúviel"</ref><br />
<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
She climbed on a knee, so she was really a little child. The form of her question makes me start to believe that she was an elf. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 21:25, 23 October 2021 (UTC)</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Tin%C3%BAviel&diff=337594Tinúviel2021-10-23T20:38:27Z<p>BartekChom: In early versions ''Tinúviel'' was the only name of the character.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Paula_DiSante_-_Nightingale.JPG|thumb|right|250px|''The Spell of the Nightingale'' by [[Paula DiSante]]]]<br />
'''Tinúviel''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[tiˈnuːvjel]}}) is a [[Sindarin]] poetic term, though not a literal name, for the '[[Nightingale]]'. This name was first given to [[Lúthien]] of [[Doriath]] by [[Beren]] when he first saw her dancing in the forest.<ref>{{S|Beren}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
The word derives from [[Primitive Quendian]] ''tindômiselde''. Literally it means "Daughter of Twilight".<ref>{{LR|Etymologies}}, entry TIN, SEL-D</ref><br />
<br />
It can be analyzed as ''[[tinnu]](w) + [[sell]]''.{{fact}}<br />
<br />
==Cognates==<br />
*[[Quenya]] ''[[tindómerel]], [[tindómiel]]''<br />
<br />
==Other versions of the legendarium==<br />
In early versions ''Tinúviel'' was the only name of the character.<ref>{{LT1|IVn}}, note 1</ref><ref>{{LT2|I}}, p. 41</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[Nightingales#Names and Etymology|dúlinn]]<br />
*[[merilin]]<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Tinuviel}}<br />
[[Category:Epithets]]<br />
[[Category:Sindarin nouns]]<br />
[[Category:Sindarin names]]<br />
[[de:Lúthien]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/teleri/sindar/tinuviel]]<br />
[[fi:Tinúviel]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Teleri&diff=330810Teleri2021-04-27T16:08:19Z<p>BartekChom: I am sorry, "and their seventy-two companion" already was there.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-two|the Third Clan in general|Teleri of Aman|[[Falmari]]}}<br />
{{people infobox<br />
| name=Teleri<br />
| image=[[File:Marya Filatova - One of the Teleri.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="[[:File:Marya Filatova - One of the Teleri.jpg|One of the Teleri]]" by [[Marya Filatova]]<br />
| pronun={{respell|tel|air-ee}}<br />
| othernames=Nelya, Lindar, Sea-elves<br />
| origin=<br />
| location=[[Alqualondë]], [[Isle of Balar]], [[Ossiriand]], [[Doriath]], [[Tol Eressëa]], [[Edhellond]], [[Mithlond]], [[Lothlórien]], [[Mirkwood]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| rivalry=<br />
| language=[[Common Telerin]], [[Telerin]], [[Sindarin]], [[Nandorin]]<br />
| members=[[Elwë]], [[Olwë]], [[Celeborn]], [[Círdan]], [[Lenwë]]<br />
| lifespan=Immortal<br />
| distinctions=Adoration for the sea/forest<br />
| height=Tall<br />
| hair=Dark, silver<br />
| skin=White<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
}}<br />
{{quote|The greatest host came last, and they are named the Teleri, for they tarried on the road, and were not wholly of a mind to pass from the dusk to the light of [[Valinor]]. In water they had great delight, and those that came at last to the western shores were enamoured of the sea. The Sea-elves therefore they became in the land of [[Aman]], the Falmari, for they made music beside the breaking waves.|''[[Quenta Silmarillion]]'', "[[Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor]]"}}<br />
The '''Teleri''' were the third of the [[Elves|Elf]] clans who took the [[Great Journey]]. To them belonged the [[Valinor]]ean Teleri (known as the [[Falmari]]), and the [[Sindar]], [[Green-elves|Laiquendi]], and [[Nandor]] of [[Middle-earth]].<br />
<br />
At first they were known as '''[[Nelyar]]''' ("The Third"), and were the largest of the three houses of the Firstborn. According to legend, they were descended from [[Enel]], the third Elf to [[Awakening of the Elves|awake]] in [[Cuiviénen]], his spouse [[Enelyë]] and their seventy-two companions; half of the [[Avari]] originally belonged to this clan.<ref group=note>Specifically 28 of the 56 [[Tatyar]] and 28 of the 74 Nelyar became Avari. These values are proportions of 144, not headcounts.</ref><ref>{{WJ|C}}, pp. 380-83</ref><br />
<br />
In ancient times they named themselves '''[[Teleri#Names|Lindar]]''', or "Singers", because they were known for their fair voice.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
According to legend, the clan was founded by [[Enel]], the third Elf to awake at [[Cuiviénen]]. With him were his spouse [[Enelyë]] and their 72 companions, and this clan became known as the '''Nelyar'''.<br />
<br />
=== During the Great Journey ===<br />
<br />
When the [[Valar]] decided to bring the [[Quendi]] to [[Aman]], they chose three ambassadors. [[Ingwë]], [[Finwë]] and [[Elwë]] travelled there and tried to convince their people to make the journey. Out of the original 74 Nelyar who awoke at Cuiviénen, 28 refused and became part of the [[Avari]], "The Unwilling".<br />
<br />
The Teleri clan was so numerous that it was led both by Elwë and his brother [[Olwë]]. They were the last clan to depart, and the only ones who were unwilling to leave the wild lands of [[Middle-earth]] and were usually the hindmost of the [[Great Journey]]. In their earliest days they had begun the crafting of rafts and paddle-driven boats, and their ships became larger and stronger upon their need to traverse the [[Sea of Rhûn]] on their westward journey.<ref>{{PM|Last}} p. 391-392</ref> After travelling for many years, the Teleri stopped near river [[Anduin]] being frightened by the [[Misty Mountains|Hithaeglir]] ([[Misty Mountains]]). Then a group led by [[Lenwë]] departed from the journey and headed south. They were called the [[Nandor]] ("Those who turn back"). Eventually, the other Teleri passed the Misty Mountains and reached Eastern [[Beleriand]] near the river [[Gelion]].<br />
<br />
That was the time when Elwë fell in love with [[Melian]] the [[Maiar|Maia]] and became separated from the Teleri, standing in the forest of [[Nan Elmoth]] for a long time only staring at her. Olwë became their leader, but some Teleri, especially Elwë's friends and close relatives were searching for him for a long time and refused to continue their journey without him. Those in [[Sindarin]] were known as the [[Eglath]] as they forsook the Great Journey.<br />
<br />
Being the hindmost, the Teleri were still near [[Gelion]] and failed to hear [[Ulmo]]'s call when the Vanyar and the Noldor travelled into the West. When they learned that the others had already departed, they headed to the shores of Beleriand near the mouth of the river [[Sirion]] waiting for [[Ulmo]]. The Maia [[Ossë]] kept them company while they waited, and became their friend. When they first beheld the sea, the Teleri became enamoured with it, and ever after desired to live close to the shore, being named 'Sea-elves' in Aman. <ref>{{S|3}}</ref><br />
<br />
Later, when Ulmo arrived again with the island ferry, most of the Teleri agreed to travel. Again, there were some who wanted to stay with Ossë, and they became known as [[Falathrim]] in Sindarin, with [[Círdan|Nowë]] as their leader.<br />
<br />
Out of the 46 original Telerin Eldar who began the Great Journey, only 20 among them arrived in Aman with their offspring, whereas the other 26 firstborn remained in Middle-earth as Sindar or Nandor.<ref>{{WJ|Quendi}} p. 381</ref><br />
<br />
=== After the Great Journey ===<br />
The island was stabilized by Ulmo near the [[Bay of Eldamar]], and it was named [[Tol Eressëa]], ''The Lonely Island''. The Teleri lived there for many years until they felt that they should see the other [[Eldar]] who lived in Aman proper. With the help of Ossë they built ships and travelled to the coasts of Aman, where they dwelt. There Olwë built [[Alqualondë]], the greatest city of Teleri, and its people were united with the people of [[Tirion]] and [[Finwë]].<br />
<br />
In Beleriand, Elwë and Melian recovered from their enchantment. He united the Eglath who stayed back, and the Falathrim who accepted him as King of Beleriand. The folk of both Elwë and Nowë became collectively known as the [[Sindar]]. Later they were joined by the [[Laiquendi|Laegil]], the Nandor who resumed their journey to the west under [[Denethor (Nando)|Denethor]] and came to [[Ossiriand]].<br />
<br />
Later, when [[Morgoth|Melkor]] stole the [[Silmarils]], the [[Noldor]] led by [[Fëanor]] demanded that the Teleri let them use their ships. When the Teleri refused, they took the ships by force, committing the [[First Kinslaying]]. For this reason few or none of the Teleri joined the host of the [[Valar]] which at the end of the [[First Age]] set out to capture [[Morgoth]] for good. It is recounted that the Teleri eventually forgave the Noldor for the Kinslayings, and the two kindreds were at peace again.<br />
<br />
==Sundering of Teleri==<br />
*'''[[Falmari]]'''. Led by [[Olwë]], they (along with [[Elwë]]) were the only [[Calaquendi]] of the Teleri clan. They lived in Tol Eressëa and along the east shores of Aman.<br />
<br />
*'''[[Nandor]]''' Teleri who abandoned the Great Journey near river Anduin, led by [[Lenwë]].<br />
**'''[[Laiquendi]]''' The Elves of [[Ossiriand]], who were themselves Nandor led by [[Denethor (Nando)|Denethor]].<br />
**'''[[Silvan]]''' The Wood Elves, primarily in the [[Woodland Realm]] of [[Mirkwood]] and [[Lothlórien]].<br />
<br />
*'''[[Sindar]]''' All Teleri who remained in Beleriand. The Sindar of [[Beleriand]] called themselves simply ''[[Sindar|Edhil]]'', which means ''Elves'', and is related to the Quenya word ''Eldar'' of the same meaning. Elwë was their King. These were further divided into:<br />
**'''[[Iathrim]]'''<ref name="Q&E-B-S-3">{{WJ|B}}, 3</ref>, those who lived in [[Doriath]], the realm directly ruled by King [[Thingol]], that is Elwë.<br />
**'''[[Falathrim]]''', those who lived in the [[Falas]] ruled by [[Círdan]].<br />
**'''[[Elves of Mithrim|Mithrim]]'''<ref name="Q&E-B-S-3"/>, or Sindar of the North, those who lived in Northern Beleriand: in [[Hithlum]], especially in the area called after them [[Mithrim]], in [[Dorthonion]] or in [[Nevrast]]. They suffered most from Morgoth's attacks before the first rising of the Sun, and their remnants were largely absorbed by the Noldor who afterwards occupied those lands.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
The Teleri spoke the [[Common Telerin]] language during the Journey, from which [[Sindarin]] (with its dialects of [[Doriathrin]], [[Falathrin]] and [[North Sindarin]]) and [[Nandorin]] were derived, as well as the [[Telerin]] of Aman, often considered a dialect of [[Quenya]] (if only by virtue that it preserved more of the archaic Common Eldarin features than any other language and remained mutually intelligible with Quenya). <br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Teleri'' is the plural of ''Teler'' which means "last", root [[TEL]].{{fact}}<br />
<br />
In ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' the word ''Teleri'' refers both to the Third Clan in general, and that branch that made it to Aman, taken from the Vanyar and Noldor point of view; particularly the Teleri of Aman were called [[Falmari]]. <br />
<br />
==Other names==<br />
Equivalent names of the Teleri were '''''[[Nelyar]]''''' and '''''Lindar'''''. ''Lindar'' ([[Quenya]] "singers", pron. {{IPA|[ˈlindar]}}) was the name by which the [[Teleri]] called themselves.<br />
<br />
Another name was [[Sindarin]] '''''Glinnil''''' (sing ''Glinnel''), a name which appears to have been used only by the loremasters among the Eldar.<ref>{{WJ|Quendi}}, pp. 378, 385</ref><br />
<br />
'''Sea-elves''' was yet another name of the Teleri, specifically those of that kin who came to [[Aman]] and dwelt at [[Alqualondë]] (the [[Falmari]]), for their love of the sea and reverence of [[Ulmo]]. The name "Sea-elves" was rendered ''Veaneldar'' in Quenya,<ref>{{LR|A1}}, p. 403</ref> consisting of ''vea(n)'' ("sea") + ''[[eldar]]'' ("elves").<ref>{{VT|36a}}, p. 20</ref><br />
<br />
The Teleri were also known by many other names: the Foam-riders, the Singers of the Shore, the Free, the Swift, the Arrow-elves (for their love of bow and arrow), the Elves of the Sea, the Ship-wrights, the Swanherds, the Gatherers of Pearl, the Blue Elves, and the people of Olwë.<ref>{{MR|P3I3}}, p. 164</ref><br />
<br />
==Other versions of the legendarium==<br />
In the early versions of Tolkien's mythology (see: ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]''), they were known as '''''Solosimpi''''' ("Pipers of the Shores"), while the name ''Teleri'' was given to the clan of Elves known in the published version of ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' as [[Vanyar]].<br />
<br />
{{elves}}<br />
{{references|notes}}<br />
[[Category:Elven peoples]]<br />
[[Category:Teleri| ]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya demonyms]]<br />
[[de:Teleri]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:peuples:elfes:teleri:teleri]]<br />
[[fi:Teleri (kansa)]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Teleri&diff=330014Teleri2021-04-05T15:35:46Z<p>BartekChom: from Avari</p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-two|the Third Clan in general|Teleri of Aman|[[Falmari]]}}<br />
{{people infobox<br />
| name=Teleri<br />
| image=[[File:Marya Filatova - One of the Teleri.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="[[:File:Marya Filatova - One of the Teleri.jpg|One of the Teleri]]" by [[Marya Filatova]]<br />
| pronun={{respell|tel|air-ee}}<br />
| othernames=Nelya, Lindar, Sea-elves<br />
| origin=<br />
| location=[[Alqualondë]], [[Isle of Balar]], [[Ossiriand]], [[Doriath]], [[Tol Eressëa]], [[Edhellond]], [[Mithlond]], [[Lothlórien]], [[Mirkwood]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| rivalry=<br />
| language=[[Common Telerin]], [[Telerin]], [[Sindarin]], [[Nandorin]]<br />
| members=[[Elwë]], [[Olwë]], [[Celeborn]], [[Círdan]], [[Lenwë]]<br />
| lifespan=Immortal<br />
| distinctions=Adoration for the sea/forest<br />
| height=Tall<br />
| hair=Dark, silver<br />
| skin=White<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
}}<br />
{{quote|The greatest host came last, and they are named the Teleri, for they tarried on the road, and were not wholly of a mind to pass from the dusk to the light of [[Valinor]]. In water they had great delight, and those that came at last to the western shores were enamoured of the sea. The Sea-elves therefore they became in the land of [[Aman]], the Falmari, for they made music beside the breaking waves.|''[[Quenta Silmarillion]]'', "[[Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor]]"}}<br />
The '''Teleri''' were the third of the [[Elves|Elf]] clans who took the [[Great Journey]]. To them belonged the [[Valinor]]ean Teleri (known as the [[Falmari]]), and the [[Sindar]], [[Green-elves|Laiquendi]], and [[Nandor]] of [[Middle-earth]].<br />
<br />
At first they were known as '''[[Nelyar]]''' ("The Third"), and were the largest of the three houses of the Firstborn. According to legend, they were descended from the subjects of [[Enel]], the third Elf to [[Awakening of the Elves|awake]] in [[Cuiviénen]], his spouse [[Enelyë]] and their seventy-two companions; half of the [[Avari]] originally belonged to this clan.<ref group=note>Specifically 28 of the 56 [[Tatyar]] and 28 of the 74 Nelyar became Avari. These values are proportions of 144, not headcounts.</ref><ref>{{WJ|C}}, pp. 380-83</ref><br />
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In ancient times they named themselves '''[[Teleri#Names|Lindar]]''', or "Singers", because they were known for their fair voice.<br />
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==History==<br />
According to legend, the clan was founded by [[Enel]], the third Elf to awake at [[Cuiviénen]]. With him were his spouse [[Enelyë]] and their 72 companions, and this clan became known as the '''Nelyar'''.<br />
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=== During the Great Journey ===<br />
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When the [[Valar]] decided to bring the [[Quendi]] to [[Aman]], they chose three ambassadors. [[Ingwë]], [[Finwë]] and [[Elwë]] travelled there and tried to convince their people to make the journey. Out of the original 74 Nelyar who awoke at Cuiviénen, 28 refused and became part of the [[Avari]], "The Unwilling".<br />
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The Teleri clan was so numerous that it was led both by Elwë and his brother [[Olwë]]. They were the last clan to depart, and the only ones who were unwilling to leave the wild lands of [[Middle-earth]] and were usually the hindmost of the [[Great Journey]]. In their earliest days they had begun the crafting of rafts and paddle-driven boats, and their ships became larger and stronger upon their need to traverse the [[Sea of Rhûn]] on their westward journey.<ref>{{PM|Last}} p. 391-392</ref> After travelling for many years, the Teleri stopped near river [[Anduin]] being frightened by the [[Misty Mountains|Hithaeglir]] ([[Misty Mountains]]). Then a group led by [[Lenwë]] departed from the journey and headed south. They were called the [[Nandor]] ("Those who turn back"). Eventually, the other Teleri passed the Misty Mountains and reached Eastern [[Beleriand]] near the river [[Gelion]].<br />
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That was the time when Elwë fell in love with [[Melian]] the [[Maiar|Maia]] and became separated from the Teleri, standing in the forest of [[Nan Elmoth]] for a long time only staring at her. Olwë became their leader, but some Teleri, especially Elwë's friends and close relatives were searching for him for a long time and refused to continue their journey without him. Those in [[Sindarin]] were known as the [[Eglath]] as they forsook the Great Journey.<br />
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Being the hindmost, the Teleri were still near [[Gelion]] and failed to hear [[Ulmo]]'s call when the Vanyar and the Noldor travelled into the West. When they learned that the others had already departed, they headed to the shores of Beleriand near the mouth of the river [[Sirion]] waiting for [[Ulmo]]. The Maia [[Ossë]] kept them company while they waited, and became their friend. When they first beheld the sea, the Teleri became enamoured with it, and ever after desired to live close to the shore, being named 'Sea-elves' in Aman. <ref>{{S|3}}</ref><br />
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Later, when Ulmo arrived again with the island ferry, most of the Teleri agreed to travel. Again, there were some who wanted to stay with Ossë, and they became known as [[Falathrim]] in Sindarin, with [[Círdan|Nowë]] as their leader.<br />
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Out of the 46 original Telerin Eldar who began the Great Journey, only 20 among them arrived in Aman with their offspring, whereas the other 26 firstborn remained in Middle-earth as Sindar or Nandor.<ref>{{WJ|Quendi}} p. 381</ref><br />
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=== After the Great Journey ===<br />
The island was stabilized by Ulmo near the [[Bay of Eldamar]], and it was named [[Tol Eressëa]], ''The Lonely Island''. The Teleri lived there for many years until they felt that they should see the other [[Eldar]] who lived in Aman proper. With the help of Ossë they built ships and travelled to the coasts of Aman, where they dwelt. There Olwë built [[Alqualondë]], the greatest city of Teleri, and its people were united with the people of [[Tirion]] and [[Finwë]].<br />
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In Beleriand, Elwë and Melian recovered from their enchantment. He united the Eglath who stayed back, and the Falathrim who accepted him as King of Beleriand. The folk of both Elwë and Nowë became collectively known as the [[Sindar]]. Later they were joined by the [[Laiquendi|Laegil]], the Nandor who resumed their journey to the west under [[Denethor (Nando)|Denethor]] and came to [[Ossiriand]].<br />
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Later, when [[Morgoth|Melkor]] stole the [[Silmarils]], the [[Noldor]] led by [[Fëanor]] demanded that the Teleri let them use their ships. When the Teleri refused, they took the ships by force, committing the [[First Kinslaying]]. For this reason few or none of the Teleri joined the host of the [[Valar]] which at the end of the [[First Age]] set out to capture [[Morgoth]] for good. It is recounted that the Teleri eventually forgave the Noldor for the Kinslayings, and the two kindreds were at peace again.<br />
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==Sundering of Teleri==<br />
*'''[[Falmari]]'''. Led by [[Olwë]], they (along with [[Elwë]]) were the only [[Calaquendi]] of the Teleri clan. They lived in Tol Eressëa and along the east shores of Aman.<br />
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*'''[[Nandor]]''' Teleri who abandoned the Great Journey near river Anduin, led by [[Lenwë]].<br />
**'''[[Laiquendi]]''' The Elves of [[Ossiriand]], who were themselves Nandor led by [[Denethor (Nando)|Denethor]].<br />
**'''[[Silvan]]''' The Wood Elves, primarily in the [[Woodland Realm]] of [[Mirkwood]] and [[Lothlórien]].<br />
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*'''[[Sindar]]''' All Teleri who remained in Beleriand. The Sindar of [[Beleriand]] called themselves simply ''[[Sindar|Edhil]]'', which means ''Elves'', and is related to the Quenya word ''Eldar'' of the same meaning. Elwë was their King. These were further divided into:<br />
**'''[[Iathrim]]'''<ref name="Q&E-B-S-3">{{WJ|B}}, 3</ref>, those who lived in [[Doriath]], the realm directly ruled by King [[Thingol]], that is Elwë.<br />
**'''[[Falathrim]]''', those who lived in the [[Falas]] ruled by [[Círdan]].<br />
**'''[[Elves of Mithrim|Mithrim]]'''<ref name="Q&E-B-S-3"/>, or Sindar of the North, those who lived in Northern Beleriand: in [[Hithlum]], especially in the area called after them [[Mithrim]], in [[Dorthonion]] or in [[Nevrast]]. They suffered most from Morgoth's attacks before the first rising of the Sun, and their remnants were largely absorbed by the Noldor who afterwards occupied those lands.<br />
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==Language==<br />
The Teleri spoke the [[Common Telerin]] language during the Journey, from which [[Sindarin]] (with its dialects of [[Doriathrin]], [[Falathrin]] and [[North Sindarin]]) and [[Nandorin]] were derived, as well as the [[Telerin]] of Aman, often considered a dialect of [[Quenya]] (if only by virtue that it preserved more of the archaic Common Eldarin features than any other language and remained mutually intelligible with Quenya). <br />
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==Etymology==<br />
''Teleri'' is the plural of ''Teler'' which means "last", root [[TEL]].{{fact}}<br />
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In ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' the word ''Teleri'' refers both to the Third Clan in general, and that branch that made it to Aman, taken from the Vanyar and Noldor point of view; particularly the Teleri of Aman were called [[Falmari]]. <br />
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==Other names==<br />
Equivalent names of the Teleri were '''''[[Nelyar]]''''' and '''''Lindar'''''. ''Lindar'' ([[Quenya]] "singers", pron. {{IPA|[ˈlindar]}}) was the name by which the [[Teleri]] called themselves.<br />
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Another name was [[Sindarin]] '''''Glinnil''''' (sing ''Glinnel''), a name which appears to have been used only by the loremasters among the Eldar.<ref>{{WJ|Quendi}}, pp. 378, 385</ref><br />
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'''Sea-elves''' was yet another name of the Teleri, specifically those of that kin who came to [[Aman]] and dwelt at [[Alqualondë]] (the [[Falmari]]), for their love of the sea and reverence of [[Ulmo]]. The name "Sea-elves" was rendered ''Veaneldar'' in Quenya,<ref>{{LR|A1}}, p. 403</ref> consisting of ''vea(n)'' ("sea") + ''[[eldar]]'' ("elves").<ref>{{VT|36a}}, p. 20</ref><br />
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The Teleri were also known by many other names: the Foam-riders, the Singers of the Shore, the Free, the Swift, the Arrow-elves (for their love of bow and arrow), the Elves of the Sea, the Ship-wrights, the Swanherds, the Gatherers of Pearl, the Blue Elves, and the people of Olwë.<ref>{{MR|P3I3}}, p. 164</ref><br />
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==Other versions of the legendarium==<br />
In the early versions of Tolkien's mythology (see: ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]''), they were known as '''''Solosimpi''''' ("Pipers of the Shores"), while the name ''Teleri'' was given to the clan of Elves known in the published version of ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' as [[Vanyar]].<br />
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{{elves}}<br />
{{references|notes}}<br />
[[Category:Elven peoples]]<br />
[[Category:Teleri| ]]<br />
[[Category:Quenya demonyms]]<br />
[[de:Teleri]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:peuples:elfes:teleri:teleri]]<br />
[[fi:Teleri (kansa)]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=V%C3%ABann%C3%AB&diff=329983Vëannë2021-04-04T04:31:40Z<p>BartekChom: I am sorry, aN!</p>
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<div>{{elves infobox<br />
| image=<br />
| name=Vëannë<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Tol Eressëa]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=<br />
| heritage=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Female<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Vëannë''' was an [[Elf]] of [[Tol Eressëa]], a little girl from the [[Cottage of Lost Play]]. She was the teller of the ''[[Tale of Tinúviel]]'' . She argued with [[Ausir (boy)|Ausir]], who suggested [[Qenya|elvish]] names ''[[Thingol|Tinwë Linto]]'' and ''[[Melian|Wendelin]]'' instead of [[gnomish]] ''[[Thingol|Tinwelint]]'' and ''[[Melian|Gwendeling]]''.<ref>{{LT2|I}}, p. 8 ff</ref><br />
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{{references}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Veanne}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Book of Lost Tales]]<br />
[[Category:Elves]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LordoftheEarth&diff=326784User talk:LordoftheEarth2021-01-26T12:29:36Z<p>BartekChom: /* Morgoth's Ring */ new section</p>
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<div>{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=LordoftheEarth}}<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 17:39, 3 December 2019 (UTC)<br />
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==Categories==<br />
Hi, I think only a few of the categories you are adding are fine. You should check this before continue: [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style#Categories]]. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 12:13, 14 December 2019 (UTC)<br />
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==Sauron article==<br />
Hi. Please, leave alone the Sauron article. You making many errors: You are using a quote that belongs to the [[Thû]] article, not Sauron. You can't change the main image just because: [[Help:Images#Rules]]. There is no need to explain the origins of Mairon in the introduction when they are going to be repeated in its section: [[Tolkien_Gateway:Manual_of_Style#Introduction]].--[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 12:40, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
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== Morgoth's Ring ==<br />
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It seems that you had problems with the reference. I corrected what you wrote to <tt><nowiki><ref>{{MR|P2}}</ref></nowiki></tt>, but probably you should give more precise chapter and page.<br />
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In general the code <tt><nowiki>{{work|chapter}}, p. xx</nowiki></tt>) is used ([[Help:References#Shortcuts|this shortcuts]] for works, chapters as described on pages for individual templates and pages by hand).<br />
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"''[[The History of Middle-earth]]'' series - Include page numbers in citations from editions published by HarperCollins or Houghton Mifflin Harcourt (all of which have the same pagination)" Do you have one of these editions?<br />
<br />
<nowiki><ref name="something"></nowiki> lets you repeat references:<br />
<pre><br />
one<ref name=abc>sourceABC</ref> two<ref>sourceXYZ</ref> three<ref name=qwe>sourceQWE</ref> four<ref name=abc/> five<ref name=qwe/><br />
<references /><br />
</pre><br />
one<ref name=abc>sourceABC</ref> two<ref>sourceXYZ</ref> three<ref name=qwe>sourceQWE</ref> four<ref name=abc/> five<ref name=qwe/><br />
<references /><br />
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[[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 12:29, 26 January 2021 (UTC)</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Morgoth&diff=326783Morgoth2021-01-26T12:00:24Z<p>BartekChom: {{MR|P2}}</p>
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<div>{{sources}}<br />
{{evil infobox<br />
| name=Morgoth<br />
| image=[[File:Jenny Dolfen - And Morgoth came.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="And Morgoth came" by [[Jenny Dolfen]]<br />
| pronun=[[Sindarin|S]], {{IPA|[ˈmorɡoθ]}}<br />
| othernames=Melkor<br/>''[[Morgoth#Names|See below]]''<br />
| titles=[[Dark Lord]]<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Utumno]]<br/>[[Angband]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=[[Creation of the Ainur]]<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=In the future<br />
| deathlocation=[[Dagor Dagorath]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=Disrupting the [[Music of the Ainur|Music]]<br/>Controlling all of [[Middle-earth]]<br/>Creating [[Orcs]] and [[Dragons]]<br/>Destroying the [[Two Trees]]<br/>Stealing the [[Silmarils]]<br/>Taking over [[Beleriand]]<br />Corrupting [[Men]]<br />Warring with the [[Valar]]<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=[[Manwë]]<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| race=[[Ainur|Ainu]]<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=Tall<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=[[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]]<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
{{Quote|And he descended upon Arda in power and majesty greater than any other of the Valar, as a mountain that wades in the sea and has its head above the clouds and is clad in ice and crowned with smoke and fire; and the light of the eyes of Melkor was like a flame that withers with heat and pierces with a deadly cold.|''[[The Silmarillion]]'', "[[Ainulindalë]]"}}<br />
'''Morgoth''', also known as '''[[Morgoth#Names|Melkor]]''', was the greatest of the [[Ainur]]. He fell from glory when he disrupted the [[Music of the Ainur]] and defied the will of [[Ilúvatar]]. Morgoth corrupted many of the Ainur to his service, fought the [[Valar]], and marred [[Arda]]. His theft of the [[Silmarils]] and [[Wars of Beleriand|wars]] against [[Elves]] and [[Men]] encompassed much of the history of the [[First Age]]. Eventually, Morgoth was bound in chains by the Valar and thrown into the [[Void]], leaving the permanent damage his evils had done, and his former lieutenant [[Sauron]], to trouble the world.<br />
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One day, according to a prophecy, Morgoth will rise again in great wrath, but he will be destroyed in the [[Final Battle|Dagor Dagorath]].<br />
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==History==<br />
The most powerful of the [[Ainur]] that [[Ilúvatar]] created was a spirit known as Melkor. Because he wandered through the [[Void]] in an attempt to find and use the [[Flame Imperishable]], the source of [[Ilúvatar]]'s creative activity, Melkor developed ideas unlike those of the other Ainur. His feelings grew rebellious against his creator, for he wished to create sentient beings to inhabit the Void and was dissatisfied by the fact that Ilúvatar had not done so. However, Melkor could not find the Flame, for it was not in the Void, but with Ilúvatar.<br />
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===The Music of the Ainur===<br />
[[Image:Ted Nasmith - Melkor Weaves Opposing Music.jpg|thumb|left|''Melkor weaves opposing Music'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]<br />
When the Ainur [[Music of the Ainur|made music]], Melkor wove his strange thoughts into his song. His song clashed against the Theme of Ilúvatar, disturbing the Ainur around him and causing some of them to attune their music to his. For a while the Theme of Ilúvatar and the discords of Melkor warred against one another. But [[Eru]] smiled, and sent forth a new theme. Most of the Ainur joined with it, but Melkor rebelliously opposed it even more violently. At last, many of the Ainur stopped singing in dismay, and Melkor's discords gained dominance. Eru sent out a third Theme against Melkor, sweeter and more beautiful than the others, and unquenchable. But though Melkor could not defeat it, still he opposed it. At last, Eru halted the music completely with a single chord.<br />
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Eru then publicly rebuked Melkor, saying that all music finds its source in himself, and thus Melkor could not create his own song or truly alter the Themes of Ilúvatar. Thus, though Melkor opposed Eru to his last breath, he only furthered the cause of Ilúvatar in new and wondrous ways. Melkor was shamed and angered by this judgement, but hid his feelings. When Eru showed the Ainur the product of their music, [[Eä]], Melkor was one of those who begged to enter [[Arda]], pretending to be willing to cultivate it and guide it for Ilúvatar's glory. He actually wished to dominate Arda and its creatures, especially the [[Children of Ilúvatar]].<br />
<br />
Nonetheless, he was allowed to enter Eä and come to Arda with the other [[Valar]]. Once there, Melkor declared to his colleagues that he was the master of Arda henceforth. [[Manwë]], his brother, did not understand his evil, but fearing that Melkor might try and disrupt their labours in Arda, called forth many more Ainur to protect them. Melkor departed to the remote regions of Eä, leaving the world in peace for a while.<br />
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===Wars of the Valar===<br />
[[File:Jerrel Salvatierra - The Enemy.jpg|thumb|''The Enemy'' by [[:Category:Images by Jerrel Salvatierra|Salvatierra]]]]<br />
But Melkor took form more majestic than any of the Valar, great and terrible and burning with his malice, and he came to Arda to destroy the Valar's work in preparing it. There was war, the [[First War with Melkor]], in which mountains were felled and brutality inflicted on the Valar. Though he disrupted their work and destroyed much, a great spirit named [[Tulkas]] came to Arda from other regions of Eä to combat him. After Tulkas drove Melkor away, the Valar managed to complete Arda, and the world was established.<br />
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The Valar dwelt in a land called [[Almaren]], and raised up [[two lamps]] to light the young earth: [[Illuin]] and [[Ormal]]. Melkor, meanwhile, had attracted the attention--and in a few cases, admiration--of the [[Maiar]], the lesser spirits of [[Arda]]. Melkor had many spies among them, and from them learned all that the Valar did, and bided his time. As the Valar sat down to a feast at the completion of their labours, Melkor gathered together those loyal to him, and looking down on the beautiful Arda, was filled with hatred. Tulkas was wedded to [[Nessa]] at that feast, and she danced before the Valar. Tulkas fell asleep, and that is when Melkor struck.<br />
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Melkor with his host passed over the [[Walls of Night]] and returned to Arda once more. Without the watchfulness of Tulkas, the Valar were unaware of his coming, and he began to delve in the depths of the earth, making a fortress called [[Utumno]] northwards beneath the mountains in the dimness of Illuin. The [[Spring of Arda]] became blighted as the cold evil flowed out of the fortress. Death and illness took the green things of Arda, and animals fought and killed one another, while flies brooded in massive numbers. The Valar knew then that Melkor was at work, and sought his hiding place.<br />
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But Melkor struck the first blow. He came to them in ire and war, destroying [[Almaren]] and the Two Lamps, and caused the world to be filled with flowing fire and surging water. The symmetry of Arda was broken. And in the darkness and confusion Melkor escaped, returning to Utumno. All combined, the Valar were a match for Melkor, but they needed their strength to keep the world from collapsing into ruin and could not pursue him, nor did they know exactly where he had fled to. The Spring of Arda had ended in turmoil.<br />
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===Dominance of Middle-earth===<br />
With Almaren destroyed, the Valar departed to a new continent across the [[Belegaer|sea]], [[Aman]], and built [[Valinor]]. They also established new sources of light, the [[Two Trees]], to light the world. Melkor, meanwhile, wandered across the face of [[Middle-earth]], in various guises, but armed with cold and fire. Some of the Valar were unwilling to forsake Middle-earth, however; [[Ulmo]] and [[Yavanna]], particularly. Also [[Oromë]] would ride in Middle-earth, killing the terrors of Melkor, who began to fear that the Valar might rise up against him in wrath.<br />
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Melkor brooded in the north and built his strength, gathering his demons about him, breeding great monsters, attended by his Maiar-servants later known as [[Balrogs]]. He also created another fortress and armory called [[Angband]], in the north-west of Middle Earth, to resist any Valarin attacks. He placed his greatest servant, [[Sauron]], in control of that stronghold. The Valar acted against Melkor in force, but they were routed, his might too great for them to overcome.<br />
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After his victory, Melkor began to delve more great fortresses and pits where he massed his hordes and wicked armies, confident in his domination of the world. Melkor, by wandering about in the dominion he now wrested, also learned of the awakening of the first of the [[Children of Ilúvatar]], the [[Elves]]. He instilled fear in them, and slew or captured many of them. Some of those he captured, it is believed, may have been transformed into [[Orcs]] by torture and breeding.<br />
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===Time in Valinor===<br />
[[File:Jacek Kopalski - The Captivity of Morgoth.jpg|thumb|left|''The Captivity of Morgoth'' by [[:Category:Images by Jacek Kopalski|Jacek Kopalski]]]]<br />
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The Valar were not long, however, in discovering the Elves. Fearing that they would be destroyed or corrupted by Melkor, Manwë decided that Ilúvatar wished them to recover Middle-earth at all costs. Bitter from their previous defeat, they arrived in Middle-earth with their full might. They began the [[Battle of the Powers]], and eventually destroyed Utumno after a great battle during which the face of Middle-earth was transformed, though their losses were devastating in the process. Melkor was [[Captivity of Melkor|captured]] and chained with the chain [[Angainor]], but Sauron escaped. Melkor was imprisoned in the halls of [[Mandos]], and remained there for three ages, plotting revenge. Still recovering from the grievous siege, the Valar could not pursue and destroy all of Melkor's forces that scattered from the icy fortress, and many foul creatures and minions escaped, left to brood amongst themselves until their master's return.<br />
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At the end of his time, Melkor was presented to his brother Manwë. Melkor, swallowing his pride with thoughts of vengeance, prostrated himself before the throne of Manwë, begging for pardon. Manwë granted him thus, though [[Ulmo]] and [[Tulkas]] were displeased with this judgement. Yet the Valar would not let him leave their sight, and he stayed in [[Valmar]]. Before long, he began to exert his corrupting influence on the Elves, especially the [[Noldor]]. For the [[Vanyar]] did not trust him, and the [[Teleri]] he thought too weak for his designs, but the Noldor were curious, and eager to learn what he could teach them.<br />
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===Revenge against the Valar===<br />
[[File:Lída Holubová - Laurelin and Telperion.jpg|thumb|''Laurelin and Telperion'' by [[:Category:Images by Lída Holubová|Lída Holubová]]]]<br />
{{Main|Darkening of Valinor}}<br />
In time Melkor found his greatest adversary and yet greatest tool in the form of [[Fëanor]], the eldest son of [[Finwë]], [[High King of the Noldor]]. Fëanor was the creator of the [[Silmarils]], which Melkor lusted after. As Melkor subtly spread lies and half-truths about the Valar and the Coming of [[Men]] in the form of rumours, Fëanor was greatly influenced, though he hated Melkor himself and had no idea that he was their source. His new ideas of wide lands and realms to rule touched the heart of Fëanor, and the hearts of many other Noldor. They began to murmur against the Valar, and the peace of Valinor was disturbed. Fëanor soon stirred up trouble, and while on trial before the Valar it was revealed that Melkor was at the bottom of the murmurings and troubles. Tulkas left straight-away to deal with him, but found Melkor gone. He had escaped.<br />
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Melkor was not seen for a while, but then appeared at [[Formenos]] to Fëanor, tempting him with words of friendship, and an offer of vengeance against the Valar whom Fëanor perceived had wronged him. Fëanor wavered, but Melkor pressed his advantage too much. He touched a chord about the Silmarils, and Fëanor, seeing his designs and lust for the jewels, cursed and rejected him. Melkor departed in anger, and went south past the mountain of [[Hyarmentir]], to the shadowed valley of [[Avathar]] where there dwelt [[Ungoliant]], a mysterious dark spirit in spider-form once his servant, but who had disowned him after his failure. After some time he convinced her to dismiss her fears with the offer of rich rewards, and she wove a cloak of shadow about them both.<br />
<br />
Then Melkor and Ungoliant attacked while there was festival in [[Valmar]]. Melkor pierced the [[Two Trees]] with his lance, and Ungoliant drank their sap. Then she drank dry the [[Wells of Varda]]<ref>{{S|8}}</ref>, and the two fled north to [[Formenos]], leaving the land once more in darkness and confusion. At Formenos Melkor slew [[Finwë]] and ravished the treasury of Fëanor, including the [[Silmarils]]. Then he passed over the icy [[Helcaraxë]], entering once more into [[Middle-earth]]. He had struck swiftly and surely. But Fëanor cursed him, naming him [[Morgoth]], and by that name he was known ever after to the Eldar.<ref name=Return>{{S|9}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Return to Beleriand===<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Ungoliant Demands the Silmarils.jpg|thumb|right|''Ungoliant Demands the Silmarils'' by [[Ted Nasmith]] ]]<br />
<br />
Once in safety, Ungoliant turned on her partner, demanding the jewels of Fëanor. The spider had grown greatly in size and strength from feasting upon the Trees, and Morgoth, now very weak from his efforts, feared her suddenly. Lacking the strength to fight the monstrous spider in that moment, he reluctantly parted with each of the beautiful gems, and Ungoliant devoured them. But Morgoth refused to give up the Silmarils, and she encased him in webs, torturing him and nearly devouring him. A loud cry of desperation from Morgoth penetrated deep into the walls of Angband and was heeded by [[Gothmog (balrog)|Gothmog]] and the [[balrogs]], and they rescued him from her clutches, driving Ungoliant away with their whips. So Morgoth returned to Angband, where he wrought an [[Iron Crown]] for the three jewels.<ref name=Return></ref><br />
<br />
===Wars of Beleriand===<br />
Morgoth rebuilt the fortress there, and learned of the Elves who had remained in Middle-earth. [[Thingol|Elu Thingol]] and the [[Sindar]] dwelt in the woodland kingdom of [[Doriath]], while [[Círdan]] and the [[Teleri]] lived at the [[Falas]] and [[Denethor of the Nandor|Denethor]] and the [[Nandor]] camped in [[Ossiriand]]. Morgoth made war on Thingol, surrounding Doriath and cutting Thingol off from Círdan. But Thingol was able to contact Denethor for help, and the Nandor joined with the Sindar to fight the [[Orcs]] between [[Aros]] and [[Gelion]]. Caught between the two armies, the Orcs of Morgoth were utterly defeated in the [[First Battle]]. Fleeing north they were intercepted and further demolished by the [[Naugrim]]. The Orcs attacking Círdan were more successful – pushing the Teleri to the very edge of the sea.<br />
<br />
====Dagor-nuin-Giliath====<br />
{{Main|Dagor-nuin-Giliath}}<br />
Morgoth was confronted by further challenges when Fëanor landed in Middle-earth. They set up camp at [[Mithrim]], but Morgoth [[Dagor-nuin-Giliath|attacked them]] quickly, hoping to dislodge them before they settled in too much and became a threat. But the Elves were just come out of [[Aman]], and they had the light of that country in their eyes. The Orcs dreaded them, and were swept before them like chaff before wind. Fëanor pursued them even nigh to the [[Thangorodrim]] and the gates of [[Angband]], but Morgoth sent out Gothmog and his balrogs. Fëanor was killed, but the balrogs were driven back. The Falas were freed, and though Morgoth had practically lost [[Beleriand]] outside of the [[Ered Engrin]], he was comforted in the fact that Fëanor was dead.<br />
<br />
====Dagor Aglareb====<br />
Yet [[Fingolfin]] came next, with his sons and the sons of [[Finarfin]]. They marched even to the gates of Angband, and yet could not go farther. As the Elves began to build (or rebuild) their kingdoms in Middle-earth, Morgoth waited sixty years before he struck again. It was the [[Dagor Aglareb]], the "Glorious Battle", called such because it was a great victory for the Elves. Fingolfin and [[Maedhros]], eldest son of Fëanor, combined their strength and repelled Morgoth. They then set up the [[Siege of Angband]], which was designed to keep Morgoth holed up in his fortress.<br />
<br />
====Dagor Bragollach and Fingolfin====<br />
[[Image:John Howe - Fingolfin's Challenge.jpg|thumb|right|200px|''Fingolfin's Challenge'' by [[John Howe]]]]<br />
{{blockquote|Thus [[Fingolfin|he]] came alone to Angband’s gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.|''[[The Silmarillion]]'', "[[Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin]]"}}<br />
Morgoth appeared all but defeated to his foes; he remained dormant and hidden until {{FA|455}}. He surged forth suddenly in great wrath, his armies taking the slackened besiegers by surprise. In the winter he cast great rivers of flame over the formerly green [[Ard-galen]] (causing the battle to be known as the [[Dagor Bragollach]]), burning many Elven horsemen alive. His forces beset strongholds on all sides, led by Glaurung and Gothmog, and several Noldor-lords fell in the succeeding combat. Much of Beleriand was overrun and [[Dorthonion]] was taken, as were northern [[Sirion]] and [[Maglor's Gap]].<br />
<br />
In a single stroke Morgoth had broken the Siege of Angband, but the victory was not as complete as he would have preferred. [[Ered Wethrin]], [[Himring]] and [[Hithlum]] had held against him, though just barely. King [[Fingolfin]] was dismayed and enraged by the defeat, and went to Angband in anger. With fire in his eyes, Morgoth's Orcs mistook him for a vengeful spirit and fled from him. There he challenged Morgoth to [[Fall of Fingolfin|single combat]]. Despite Morgoth's power, he held a fear of death greater than any other Valar, and was hesitant even against Fingolfin. When Fingolfin declared Morgoth craven, he scoffed the Elf-Lord and did not dare refuse his challenge. He strode out, his footsteps like thunder on the earth. He was clad in black armour with a spiked crown and shield, with [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]], the Hammer of the Underworld, and he and Fingolfin fought in a ferocious duel. Flames gashed from the earth with each strike of his hammer, but Fingolfin was faster and avoided each powerful, but slow, swing. The Elf-lord gave Morgoth seven wounds, and though Morgoth shouted in anguish, he was too powerful to be slain. Fingolfin grew weary and was struck down by Morgoth's shield. Thrice he staggered to his feet in vain, his crown and shield broken, and thrice Morgoth cast him down, before Fingolfin collapsed over one of the pits left by Grond.<br />
<br />
As Morgoth placed his foot on Fingolfin's neck to break it, Fingolfin in one last strike ran his blade through the Dark Lord's foot, and Morgoth's blood filled pools made by his hammer. The enraged Morgoth crushed Fingolfin, though he was left with a permanent limp from the injury. Morgoth wished to rend the corpse and feed it to his wolves, but could not desecrate the fallen King, for [[Thorondor]] flew in, scratching Morgoth's face and escaping with Fingolfin's body.<ref name="Ruin">{{S|Fingolfin}}</ref><br />
<br />
====The Quest for the Silmaril====<br />
For some time after that the world lay in watchful discomfort. The southern part of [[Beleriand]] was, for the most part, free from Morgoth's direct wrath. There arose two in [[Doriath]], [[Beren]] of [[House of Bëor|Bëor's House]] and [[Lúthien|Lúthien Tinúviel]], Thingol's daughter. These two lovers embarked on the [[Quest for the Silmaril]], in the process removing [[Sauron]] from [[Tol-in-Gaurhoth]] and entering Angband in disguise. Morgoth plotted some evil against Lúthien when she stood exposed in his presence, but allowed her to dance for him and she lured him to sleep with her song. One of the Silmarils was stolen from his crown, and Morgoth bore only two until the [[War of Wrath]].<br />
<br />
====Nirnaeth Arnoediad====<br />
Some time after, in {{FA|471}}, [[Maedhros]] made a great [[Union of Maedhros|alliance]] with the [[Naugrim]], [[Edain]], and other [[Noldor]]. They marched to challenge Morgoth, clearing Beleriand of his scattered forces. But Morgoth through his spies anticipated their actions, and met them with his allies the [[Easterlings]] in a huge battle in which he prevailed, and many princes and rulers of Men, Elves, and Dwarves fell. Thus the battle was named ''[[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]'', "Battle of Unnumbered Tears". Morgoth's victory was almost complete, as he razed [[Hithlum]], the [[Falas]], the [[March of Maedhros]], as well as [[Nargothrond]] in {{FA|495|n}}. But [[Turgon]], King of [[Gondolin]], escaped by the valiant actions of the [[House of Hador]], the last of the [[Edain]] in the north. The survivors had all gone down to the [[Isle of Balar]] and the [[Mouths of Sirion]].<br />
<br />
===The Curse of Morgoth===<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Morgoth Punishes Húrin.jpg|thumb|left|200px|''Morgoth Punishes Húrin'' by [[Ted Nasmith]]]]<br />
Morgoth took [[Húrin]], who had been captured during the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and set him in the high places of Thangorodrim, to watch his family, whom Morgoth cursed. Upon the death of [[Túrin|Túrin Turambar]] and [[Nienor]], Húrin's children, Morgoth released Húrin to further his cause.<br />
<br />
===The Fall of Gondolin===<br />
Some time later, by the aid of [[Maeglin]], a traitor-elf, Morgoth discovered and laid siege to [[Gondolin]]. [[Turgon]] King, the last male heir of Fingolfin's house, was killed during the siege. Morgoth's victory in the north was now complete, though he had lost [[Gothmog (balrog)|Gothmog]] his captain and marshall of his armies. Also, a small remnant including [[Tuor]] and [[Idril]] escaped the destruction of the city, bearing their son [[Eärendil]].<br />
<br />
===The War of Wrath===<br />
This was to be Morgoth's doom, for some years later, Eärendil sailed to [[Valinor]] seeking the pardon of the [[Valar]]. This he earned, and the Valar advanced across [[Belegaer]] with a mighty host. Morgoth loosed all his demons and defenses against them, but could not stop their might. His dragons fell to the [[Eagles]], and [[Ancalagon]] was brought down by Eärendil himself from his ship, [[Vingilot]]. Morgoth was seized in his fortress Angband, his feet "hewn from under him, and he was hurled upon his face", the Silmarils were removed from his crown, and he was bound once more with the chain called Angainor.<ref>{{S|24}}</ref> This time, however, he was ejected from Arda and cast into the [[Void]]. But though he had been vanquished, Arda was forever marred, and there was one still at large to carry on his evil legacy: his former great servant, the fallen Maia [[Sauron]], who became the second Dark Lord.<br />
<br />
==The Future==<br />
{{Main|Dagor Dagorath}}<br />
Morgoth remains in the Void, unable to return to Arda as long as the Valar maintain their power over it. Nevertheless, according to the [[Second Prophecy of Mandos]], Morgoth will come back and attack Arda. He will fight a great battle, called the [[Final Battle|Dagor Dagorath]], against the Valar and their allies, but will ultimately be slain by [[Túrin|Túrin Turambar]], the Man he cursed. By finally defeating Morgoth, Túrin will avenge not only himself, but all members of the race of Men.<ref>{{LR|Quenta}}, p. 333</ref><br />
<br />
==Legacy==<br />
Morgoth's will was suffused into the matter of Arda, so in a sense he is never truly gone. Arda was [[Arda Marred|marred]] by him so deeply that only Eru could fully repair the damage. Those who wished to follow in Morgoth's footsteps, such as Sauron, found that by using his residual influence, they could easily corrupt races they wished to dominate.<br />
<br />
==Characteristics==<br />
It was said of Morgoth that "his might was greatest of all things in this world." He was the most powerful being in existence, second only to Ilúvatar, and perhaps more powerful than every Vala put together. Fitting to his name, Morgoth eventually took a form great and terrible, and soon was unable to leave it. He received many scars and wounds over the ages: his hands were burned forever when he touched the Silmarils, Fingolfin wounded him seven times during their battle and inflicted a wound to the foot that caused him ever after to limp, and Thorondor scarred Morgoth's face.<br />
<br />
When Morgoth first took visible form he was said to be of greater power and majesty than any other Vala, as a colossal mountain wading in the sea with its head above the clouds, his appearance both of splendour and terror. As a physical being Morgoth was described as highly imposing, and was reckoned to a tower compared to the warrior Fingolfin, and the shadow of the shield he wielded was like a stormcloud. Ever since his downfall, Morgoth held a desire for power; above all else, however, Morgoth held deep hatred of the mere existence of intelligent or beautiful life. Unlike his servant Sauron, Morgoth's ultimate goal was solely the destruction, not control, of all that he despised. He was nonetheless persuasive, and could sway and corrupt many forms of life to become his willing servants.<ref name="Ruin"></ref><ref>{{MR|Myths}}</ref><br />
<br />
Morgoth wielded [[Grond (Hammer of the Underworld)|Grond]] in battle, a weapon he presumably forged himself in [[Angband]] (unless Sauron or [[Gothmog]] had held it safe after the [[Battle of the Powers]]), and was clad in black armor, with an iron crown. Despite his strength initially, he continually spread his residual influence, corruption, and might thin across Arda after his treachery and suffered several defeats, and his power slowly, though significantly, weakened. He alone of the Valar had a deep fear of death, and even against inferior foes he held a hesitance to ever risk his own life.<ref name="Ruin"/><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
{{Pronounce|Sindarin - Morgoth.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
The [[Sindarin]] name ''Morgoth'' ("the Black Foe"<ref name=VT49a>{{VT|49a}}, pp. 24-5</ref> or "Dark Tyrant"<ref>{{PE|21}}, p. 85</ref>) was given him by [[Fëanor]].<br />
<br />
Tolkien experimented (but apparently never reached a decision) with different [[Quenya]] translations of ''Morgoth'': ''Moringotto'', ''Moriñgotho'', or ''Morikotto''.<ref name=VT49a/><br />
<br />
==Other names==<br />
===Melkor===<br />
'''''Melkor''''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈmelkor]}}) means "mighty arising",<ref name=PE17>{{PE|17}}, p. 115</ref> 'uprising of power'",<ref name=P4k>{{MR|P4k}}, p. 350</ref> or "He who arises in Might".<ref>{{S|Index}}</ref> The name is generally used to refer to this [[Valar|Vala]] prior to his theft of the [[Silmarils]]; for after the theft [[Fëanor]] named him ''Morgoth''.<br />
<br />
''Melkor'' is a compound of [[Common Eldarin]] ''mbelek-'' (''melek'', "great, mighty, powerful"; root [[BEL|BEL, MBEL]]) + ''[[óre]]''.<ref name=PE17/><br />
<br />
The older form of ''Melkor'' is said to be ''Melkórë''.<ref name=P4k/><br />
<br />
In earlier versions of the [[legendarium]], the form of the name was ''Melko''.<ref>{{HM|HM}}</ref> At one instance in a late glossary (c. 1959), ''Melko'', meaning "simply 'the Mighty One'", is also said to be an alternative form of ''Melkor''.<ref name=P4k/><br />
<br />
===Other names and titles===<br />
*'''''Bauglir''''', ([[S.]] "the Constrainer") given after his return to [[Angband]] at the beginning of the [[First Age]].<ref name=Index>{{S|Index}}</ref> It was often combined with the name ''Morgoth'' to become the full title ''Morgoth Bauglir''.<br />
* '''''Belegûr''''' ("he who arises in might") or '''''Belegurth''''' ("Great Death").<ref>{{PM|Shibboleth}}, p. 358 (note 21)</ref><ref name=Index></ref><br />
* '''[[Black Hand]]''', called thus by [[Beleg]].<ref>{{S|21}}.</ref><br />
* '''Black King'''<ref>{{CH|1}}, p. 42</ref><br />
* '''Dark King''', given by [[Edain]].<ref name=Men>{{S|17}}</ref><br />
* '''[[Dark Lord]]'''<ref name=Men></ref><br />
* '''Dark Power of the North'''<ref>{{MR|P2}}</ref><br />
* '''[[Elder King]]''', title of Manwë, claimed by Morgoth when speaking to [[Húrin]].<ref>{{CH|3}}, p. 64</ref><br />
* '''Great Enemy''', used once by Aragorn.<ref>{{FR|I11}}</ref><br />
* '''King of the World''', given by himself after his return to Middle-earth.<ref name=Return>{{S|9}}</ref><br />
* '''Lord of All''' and '''Giver of Freedom''', used by [[Sauron]] when encouraged [[Ar-Pharazôn]] to worship Melkor.<ref name=Akallabeth>{{S|Akallabeth}}</ref><br />
* '''Lord of the Dark''', given by Edain.<ref name=Men></ref><br />
* '''Lord of the Darkness''', used by [[Sauron]] when encouraged [[Ar-Pharazôn]] to worship Melkor.<ref name=Akallabeth>{{S|Akallabeth}}</ref><br />
* '''Master of Lies''', given him by [[Amlach]].<ref name=Men></ref><br />
* '''Master of the fates of Arda''', used by him when speaking to [[Húrin]].<ref>{{CH|3}}, p. 65</ref><br />
<br />
* ''Melko, Belcha, Melegor, Meleko'', earlier forms of his Elvish names.{{fact}}<br />
<br />
==Genealogy==<br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree| |,|-|-|-|.| | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree| MEL | | MAN |~| VAR | |MEL='''MELKOR'''|MAN=[[Manwë]]|VAR=[[Varda]]}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
<br />
==Minions and allies==<br />
* [[Sauron]] – First lieutenant. Forsook Morgoth after his defeat to become the second [[Dark Lord]]<br />
* [[Gothmog (balrog)|Gothmog]], [[Lord of Balrogs]] – killed by [[Ecthelion]] during the [[Fall of Gondolin]]<br />
* [[Glaurung]] – [[Father of Dragons]], killed by [[Túrin]]<br />
* [[Draugluin]] - First of the Werewolves of Angband<br />
* [[Carcharoth]] - Greatest of the Werewolves of Angband<br />
* [[Thuringwethil]] - Vampire Herald of Sauron<br />
* [[Ancalagon]] – Greatest of the [[Winged Dragons]], slain by [[Eärendil]]<br />
* [[Ungoliant]] - Spirit of darkness and shadow in the shape of a giant spider, devourer of the sap of the [[Two Trees]], and mother of many of the great [[spider|spiders]]. Betrayed Morgoth after being denied her reward<br />
* [[Ulfang]] - Chieftain of [[Easterlings (First Age)|Easterlings]]<br />
* [[Uldor]] - Son of Ulfang, secretly in league with Morgoth<br />
* [[Ulwarth]] - Son of Ulfang, secretly in league with Morgoth<br />
* [[Ulfast]] - Son of Ulfang, secretly in league with Morgoth<br />
* [[Brodda]] - Easterling Lord of [[Hithlum]]<br />
* [[Lorgan]] - Chief of the Easterlings in Hitlum<br />
* [[Maeglin]] - Captured, revealed the location of [[Gondolin]] in exchange for [[Idril]]<br />
;Characters from older concepts<br />
* [[Othrod]] – [[Orcs|Orc]]-lord during the Fall of Gondolin, killed by [[Tuor]]<br />
* [[Lungorthin]] - A Lord of Balrogs<br />
* [[Fankil]] - Evil spirit, escaped from Utumno after its fall, leader of dark armies in the East (Palisor)<br />
* [[Langon]] - Messenger, sent by Melkor to negotiate with the Valar when they besieged [[Utumno]].<br />
* [[Balcmeg]] - Orc-general during the Fall of Gondolin, killed by Tuor<br />
* [[Lug]] - Orc-warrior during the Fall of Gondolin, slain by Tuor<br />
* [[Orcobal]] - Orc champion during the Fall of Gondolin, killed by [[Ecthelion]]<br />
* [[Tevildo]] - Cat possessed by an evil spirit, companion to Morgoth<br />
* [[Gorgol]] - Captain of [[Sauron]]'s Orcs, slew [[Barahir]]<br />
* [[Oikeroi]] - Tevildo's guard<br />
* [[Miaulë]] - Cook<br />
* [[Umuiyan]] - Tevildo's Doorkeeper<br />
* [[Boldog]] - Chieftain of the Orcs, sent to attack [[Doriath]]<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{Ainur}}<br />
[[Category:Ainur]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Book of Lost Tales]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:Evil]]<br />
[[Category:Gnomish names]]<br />
[[Category:Noldorin names]]<br />
[[Category:Sindarin names]]<br />
[[Category:Valar]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Morgoth]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/ainur/valar/morgoth]]<br />
[[fi:Morgoth]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=King_of_Doriath&diff=326744King of Doriath2021-01-25T15:17:43Z<p>BartekChom: Years of the Sun: The beginning of the First Age could be earlier</p>
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<div>The '''King of Doriath''' was the title of two Elf-lords of the [[Sindar]], who ruled the kingdom of [[Doriath]] for many centuries from its foundation long before the beginning of the [[Years of the Sun]] to its destruction at the hands of the [[Sons of Fëanor]]. <!-- Ad the following: Really? "High King of the Sindar" was removed from the article [[Doriath]]: http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Doriath&action=historysubmit&diff=312338&oldid=311940 Thingol had such authority, but did Dior have it? -->The Kings of Doriath were at the same time the High Kings of the Sindar.{{fact}}<br />
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'''[[Thingol|Elu Thingol]]''' The founder of Doriath with his queen, [[Melian]]. He was lord there for millennia, and in that time his realm was protected from foes by the [[Girdle of Melian]] (after the return of [[Morgoth]]). Thingol was slain by [[Dwarves]] in approximately I 502, and Melian departed from the realm. He was succeeded by his grandson, the son of his daughter [[Lúthien]]. <br />
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'''[[Dior|Dior Eluchíl]]''' After Thingol's death he came to [[Menegroth]] and ruled the kingdom of his grandfather. Because Dior's treasuries held a [[Silmarils|Silmaril]], the Sons of Fëanor assailed the citadel of Menegroth to recover it. There Dior was slain, and the kingdom ended.<br />
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[[Category:Elven Titles]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers in Beleriand]]<br />
[[Category:Sindar]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=King_of_Doriath&diff=326743King of Doriath2021-01-25T15:08:35Z<p>BartekChom: High Kings of the Sindar.{{fact}}; Girdle only after the return of Morgoth</p>
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<div>The '''King of Doriath''' was the title of two Elf-lords of the [[Sindar]], who ruled the kingdom of [[Doriath]] for many centuries from its foundation long before the beginning of the [[First Age]] to its destruction at the hands of the [[Sons of Fëanor]]. <!-- Ad the following: Really? "High King of the Sindar" was removed from the article [[Doriath]]: http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Doriath&action=historysubmit&diff=312338&oldid=311940 Thingol had such authority, but did Dior have it? -->The Kings of Doriath were at the same time the High Kings of the Sindar.{{fact}}<br />
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'''[[Thingol|Elu Thingol]]''' The founder of Doriath with his queen, [[Melian]]. He was lord there for millennia, and in that time his realm was protected from foes by the [[Girdle of Melian]] (after the return of [[Morgoth]]). Thingol was slain by [[Dwarves]] in approximately I 502, and Melian departed from the realm. He was succeeded by his grandson, the son of his daughter [[Lúthien]]. <br />
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'''[[Dior|Dior Eluchíl]]''' After Thingol's death he came to [[Menegroth]] and ruled the kingdom of his grandfather. Because Dior's treasuries held a [[Silmarils|Silmaril]], the Sons of Fëanor assailed the citadel of Menegroth to recover it. There Dior was slain, and the kingdom ended.<br />
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[[Category:Elven Titles]]<br />
[[Category:Rulers in Beleriand]]<br />
[[Category:Sindar]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Atlas_of_Middle-earth&diff=325808The Atlas of Middle-earth2021-01-04T22:03:15Z<p>BartekChom: links: Southfarthing rather than the Northfarthing</p>
<hr />
<div>{{book<br />
|title=The Atlas of Middle-Earth<br />
|image=[[Image:The Atlas of Middle-earth.jpg|225px]]<br />
|author=[[Karen Wynn Fonstad]]<br />
|publisher=[[Houghton Mifflin]]<br />
|date=[[29 May]] [[1981]]<br/>1991 (revised edition)<br />
|format=Paperback<br />
|pages=210<br />
|noisbn=0395535166 (1991 revised edition)<br />
0618126996 (2001 reprint)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''''The Atlas of Middle-earth''''' by [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] is an atlas of various lands in [[Arda]]. It includes specific maps for ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' and ''[[The Hobbit]]'', for which it is intended as a reading companion.<br />
<br />
==Contents==<br />
The maps are treated as if they are of real landscapes, and are drawn according to the same rules that a real atlas is drawn: for each area the history of the land is taken into account, as well as geography on a larger scale and from there maps are drawn. Discussion includes suggestions as to the geology that could explain various formations, and points that are contradictory between multiple accounts.<br />
<br />
City maps and floor plans for important buildings are also included; these are very often useful for making sense of the narratives, especially in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. As well, many battles such as [[Battles of Beleriand|those]] of [[Beleriand]], the [[Last Alliance]] and the [[War of the Ring]] are illustrated.<br />
<br />
The book was published in [[1981]], but in [[1991]] a revised and updated version was published, which took information from ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]'' into account. In [[2001]], the publishers issued a reprint of the 1991 revised edition with a new cover (pictured) but identical contents.<br />
<br />
Fonstad also made a bold attempt to fill the gaps by using early conceptual work, mainly from ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One]]'' and the ''[[Ambarkanta]]'', combining the later known maps with the sketches used by Tolkien to provide "world maps" of [[Arda]] in its entirety and show [[Aman]], [[Beleriand]]'s position relative to [[Eriador]], and the place of [[Númenor]] in the Sea.<br />
<br />
It was, however, published before the final three volumes of ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]'' were published, and thus some maps are based on [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s early works, which were revised in later writings.<br />
<br />
==Errors and criticism==<br />
Despite being a thoroughly researched and well-respected reference book, the ''Atlas'' is known to contain several errors. However, a number of these were corrected in the revised edition, as noted below.<br />
<br />
===Inconsistencies with earlier publications===<br />
*Pages 4 and 5: The [[Grey Mountains (ancient)|Grey Mountains]] are shown in western [[Haradwaith]] south of the [[Great Gulf]] rather than in the [[Dark Land|Southlands]].<ref>{{SM|5b}} p. 239</ref><br />
*Page 13: Nogrod is shown north of Belegost, and both south of Mount Dolmed. ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' states that Nogrod was the more southerly of the two. [[The Shaping of Middle-earth]] states that Gabilgathol (Belegost) was "north of the great height of Mount Dolmed".<br />
*Pages 39 and 88: On both pages, [[Drúwaith Iaur]] is shown north of the [[Ered Nimrais]] and south of the [[Angren]], and on page 39 extending east below the [[Adorn]]. In the Unfinished Tales map, Drúwaith Iaur is in the narrow area between the ocean and the southern Ered Nimrais, south of the mouth of the [[Angren]].<ref>{{UT|Index}}, "Map"</ref><br />
*Page 71: [[Hardbottle]] is shown in the [[Southfarthing]] rather than the [[Northfarthing]].<ref name="Nomen">{{HM|N}}, p. 771</ref> Sackville, shown in the Southfarthing, is entirely invented (compare the [[Sackville Family]]).<br />
*Page 89: [[Tarnost]] is shown as a city separate from [[Ethring]] though it may be a discarded name for the latter from early drafts.<ref>{{HM|AoL}}, p. 139</ref><br />
*Pages 92 and 93: [[Lithlad]] is shown in the south of [[Mordor]] rather than the northeast.<br />
*Page 99: It is written that Bilbo gave the Arkenstone to the Elvenking and Bard on 22 November, then Dáin arrived in the early morning on 23 November. In ''The Hobbit'', [[Bilbo Baggins|Bilbo]] gave away the [[Arkenstone]] and then returned before midnight to wake up Bombur.<ref>{{H|Thief}}</ref> The next day, there was a new parley, it was revealed that the Elves and Men had the Arkenstone, and [[Thorin|Thorin]] expelled Bilbo from the [[Lonely Mountain]]. On the ''next'' morning, Dáin arrived.<ref name="Burst">{{H|Burst}}</ref> Fonstad's timeline has Dáin arrive in one day, while the text of ''The Hobbit'' has him arrive in two days. Either Dáin must have arrived on 24 November or Bilbo must have handed over the Arkenstone late on 21 November.<br />
*Page 106: In ''The Hobbit'', the Dwarves saw a fire off in the woods. "The light was ahead of them and to the ''left'' of the path".<ref>{{H|Flies}}</ref> In Fonstad's map the dwarves left the path to the right. ''(Corrected in 2nd edition.)''<br />
*Page 125: [[Combe]] is shown laying to the northwest of [[Staddle]] on the east side of the [[Bree-hill]], while in fact Combe should lie a little east of Staddle's location.<ref>{{FR|Sign}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Inconsistencies with later publications===<br />
Both the first and second editions of the ''Atlas'' were written before the final three volumes of [[The History of Middle-earth]] were published, so at certain points it is contradicted by this later material. [[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]], which was published between the first and second editions of the ''Atlas'', is not taken into account in the revision.<br />
*Page viii: [[Middle-earth]] dominates much of the northern hemisphere of [[Arda]] [[Changing of the World|made round]], with [[Forochel]] being high in the polar regions of the world and [[Umbar]] laying more than halfway southward between the northern pole and the [[Girdle of Arda|equator]].<br />
**In [[Letter 294]], Tolkien confirms that [[Hobbiton]] is intended to be at the latitude of [[wikipedia:Oxford|Oxford]], with [[Minas Tirith]] 600 miles south being near to the latitude of [[wikipedia:Florence|Florence]]. With this information, it is clear that Middle-earth would be hardly as large as it appears on the ''Atlas'' map of a round Arda.<br />
*Pages 4 and 5: The [[Sea of Helcar]] is seen to cover the area of future [[Mordor]], [[Khand]], and [[Rhûn]], and the [[Sea of Rhûn]] and [[Sea of Núrnen]] are shown as its remnants. The [[Orocarni]] in the East are approximately 800 to 1700 miles away from the [[Misty Mountains]].<br />
**In ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', there are references to the Sea of Rhûn existing in the [[First Age]], as well as the forest to its northeast and the hills to its southwest, indicating that it must be separate from the Sea of Helcar.<br />
** ''The Peoples of Middle-earth'' also indicates that the distance between the Orocarni in the East and the Misty Mountains, specifically [[Gundabad]], was said to be as great or greater than that of Gundabad's distance to the [[Blue Mountains]] in the West.<ref>{{PM|Dwarves}}</ref><br />
*Pages 38 and 39: The western shores of [[Lindon]] and the [[Ethir Anduin]] are shown to exist in the [[Second Age]] of the world as they did in the [[Third Age]].<br />
**''The Peoples of Middle-earth'' tells that during the [[Akallabêth|Downfall of Númenor]], Lindon lost much land to the advancing shores, while the eastern and southern portions of the [[Bay of Belfalas]] retreated back, putting the city of [[Pelargir]], which had been only a few miles from the coast, much farther inland.<br />
<br />
===Internal inconsistencies===<br />
*Pages 12 and 53: [[Dorthonion]] and [[Himring]] are located slightly above parallel J. However much later, [[Tol Fuin]] and [[Himling]] are seen much northern, above parallel I.<br />
*Pages 38 and 41: [[Belegost]] has been moved 150 miles further south than previously shown to the middle of the southern [[Blue Mountains]].<br />
*Pages 53, 76, and 80: On page 53, [[Rhosgobel]] is located near the border of [[Mirkwood]] well ''south'' of the [[Old Forest Road]], due east of [[Moria]]. On pages 76 and 80, Rhosgobel is still at the edge of the forest, but ''north'' of the Old Forest Road. One or the other location should have been used, not both.<br />
**In ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', it is stated that in December of [[TA|TA3019]], scouts "had climbed the pass at the source of the [[Gladden River]], and had come down into [[Rhovanion|Wilderland]] and over the [[Gladden Fields]] and so at length had reached the old home of [[Radagast]] at Rhosgobel", which supports the page 53 location.<ref>{{FR|II3}}</ref> <br />
**In ''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', [[Christopher Tolkien]] states that Rhosgobel was "in the forest borders between the [[Carrock]] and the Old Forest Road".<ref>{{UT|Istari}}, Note 4</ref><br />
<br />
===Typographical errors===<br />
*Page 2: [[Sea of Ringil]] is written as "Sea of Ringol".<br />
*Page 7: [[Ezellohar]] is written as "Ezollahar". [[Ilmarin]] is written as "Ilmaren". [[Tol Eressëa|Eressëa]] is written as "Erresëa". <br />
*Pages 6 and 38: [[Avallónë]] is written as "Avalónnë" and "Avalonnë" respectively.<br />
*Pages 7 and 38: [[Alqualondë]] is written as "Aqualondë".<br />
*Page 13: [[Gabilgathol]] is written as "Gabilgathod".<br />
*Page 53: [[Caras Galadhon]] is written as "Caras Galadon".<br />
*Page 71: [[Tuckborough]] is written as "Tuckburrow".<br />
*Page 113: [[Bolg]] is written as "Borg".<ref name="Burst"/> ''(Corrected in 2nd edition.)''<br />
*Page 135: [[Methedras]] is written as "Mathedras".<br />
*Page 148: [[Gamling|Gamling the Old]] is written as "Gambling the Old".<br />
*Page 189: [[Khuzdul]], the language of the [[Dwarves]], is labeled as "[[Khazâd]]".<br />
<br />
===Use of early sources===<br />
The usage of early concepts of the ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One]]'' alongside the established [[canon]] is questionable. In [[Aman]], Fonstad identified the early name "[[Hanstovánen]]" and also describes various dwellings of the [[Valar]] in [[Valinor]]. The same happens with [[Tol Eressëa]], whose Second Age map portrays [[Tavrobel]] and [[Kortirion]], and [[Gondolin]], where several landmarks are brought in from early works. Fonstad seems to have been aware of the potential issues with incorporating these places named in early writings, and explicitly points out the especially speculative nature of these maps of the Undying Lands in the accompanying text.<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Atlas of Middle-earth, The}}<br />
{{title|italics}}<br />
[[Category:Map books]]<br />
[[Category:Publications by title]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Sackville_Family&diff=325807Sackville Family2021-01-04T22:01:53Z<p>BartekChom: In ''The Atlas of Middle-earth'' Sackville appears as a locality in the Southfarthing.</p>
<hr />
<div>The '''Sackville Family''' was a hobbit family of [[the Shire]]. <br />
<br />
[[Camellia Sackville]] is the only known member of the family;<ref>{{App|Baggins}}</ref> apart from her almost nothing is known about them, except that they are described as being one of the Shire's wealthier families.<br />
<br />
For more of them see [[Sackville-Baggins Family]]<br />
==Etymology==<br />
The name Sackville is intended to be of more aristocratic association than [[Baggins]]. [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] noted that it was intentional that "bag" and "sack" have similar meaning.<ref name="Nomen">{{HM|N}}, p. 762</ref><br />
<br />
Sackville is a real-life English surname.<ref name="Nomen" /><br />
== Portrayal in adaptations ==<br />
In ''[[The Atlas of Middle-earth]]'' Sackville appears as a locality in the [[Southfarthing]].<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Hobbit Families]]<br />
[[Category:Sackville]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Southfarthing&diff=325806Southfarthing2021-01-04T22:00:39Z<p>BartekChom: In ''The Atlas of Middle-earth'' Hardbottle and Sackville</p>
<hr />
<div>{{location infobox<br />
| name=Southfarthing<br />
| image=<br />
| caption=<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| location=[[The Shire]]<br />
| type=Region<br />
| description=<br />
| regions=[[Green Hill Country]]<br />
| towns=[[Longbottom]], [[Pincup]]<br />
| inhabitants=[[Hobbits]]<br />
| created=<br />
| destroyed=<br />
| events=<br />
}}<br />
The '''Southfarthing''' was the southmost and warmest [[Farthings|farthing]] of [[The Shire]].<br />
==Geography==<br />
Its northernmost point was the [[Three-Farthing Stone]], its eastern border was the [[Baranduin|Brandywine]] River, and much of its border with the [[Eastfarthing]] ran along the River [[Shirebourn]].<ref>{{FR|Part}}</ref><br />
<br />
Other features include:<br />
*Hills: Part of the [[Green Hill Country]]<br />
*Roads: An unnamed road crossed the Southfarthing to [[Sarn Ford]].<br />
*Towns: Longbottom, [[Pincup]].<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
About {{TA|1630}} many [[Stoors]] from [[Dunland]] entered and settled in the Southfarthing,<ref name="third">{{App|TA}}</ref> and thereafter [[Stoors|Stoorish]] characteristics and appearance were common among the Hobbits in that region.<br />
<br />
[[Tobold Hornblower]] of Longbottom first grew pipe-weed in the Southfarthing about the year {{TA|2670}}.<ref>{{TT|III8}}</ref><br />
<br />
[[Saruman]], having received reports on [[Gandalf]]’s movements and noting his interest in the Shire, began keeping [[ruffians|agents]] in the Southfarthing in {{TA|2953}}.<ref name="third"/> By {{TA|3018}} there were rumors of trouble with the "[[Big People]]".<ref>{{FR|Three}}</ref><br />
<br />
The Southfarthing was where [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]] began his rise to power during the [[War of the Ring]], based on the substantial property in the region that he inherited from his father.<ref>{{RK|VI8}}</ref> Presumably it was he who began exporting pipe-weed to Saruman.<br />
<br />
==Culture==<br />
This was the region where most of the Shire's [[pipe-weed]] production was concentrated, in warm sheltered places like [[Longbottom]].<ref>{{FR|Pipeweed}}</ref> Another noted product of the Southfarthing was the strong red wine called [[Old Winyards]].<ref>{{FR|I1}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Portrayal in adaptations ==<br />
In ''[[The Atlas of Middle-earth]]'' (page 71), [[Hardbottle]] is shown in the Southfarthing rather than the [[Northfarthing]]<ref name="Nomen">{{HM|N}}, p. 771</ref> and Sackville, shown in the Southfarthing, is entirely invented (compare the [[Sackville Family]]).<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
[[Category:Regions of the Shire]]<br />
[[de:Südviertel]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo:geographie:regions:comte:Quartier_Sud]]<br />
[[fi:Eteläneljännys]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Atlas_of_Middle-earth&diff=323929The Atlas of Middle-earth2020-11-28T12:49:08Z<p>BartekChom: (compare the Sackville Family)</p>
<hr />
<div>{{book<br />
|title=The Atlas of Middle-Earth<br />
|image=[[Image:The Atlas of Middle-earth.jpg|225px]]<br />
|author=[[Karen Wynn Fonstad]]<br />
|publisher=[[Houghton Mifflin]]<br />
|date=[[29 May]] [[1981]]<br/>1991 (revised edition)<br />
|format=Paperback<br />
|pages=210<br />
|isbn=0618126996<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''''The Atlas of Middle-earth''''' by [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] is an atlas of various lands in [[Arda]]. It includes specific maps for ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' and ''[[The Hobbit]]'', for which it is intended as a reading companion.<br />
<br />
==Contents==<br />
The maps are treated as if they are of real landscapes, and are drawn according to the same rules that a real atlas is drawn: for each area the history of the land is taken into account, as well as geography on a larger scale and from there maps are drawn. Discussion includes suggestions as to the geology that could explain various formations, and points that are contradictory between multiple accounts.<br />
<br />
City maps and floor plans for important buildings are also included; these are very often useful for making sense of the narratives, especially in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. As well, many battles such as [[Battles of Beleriand|those]] of [[Beleriand]], the [[Last Alliance]] and the [[War of the Ring]] are illustrated.<br />
<br />
The book was published in [[1981]], but in [[1991]] a revised and updated version was published, which took information from ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]'' into account.<br />
<br />
Fonstad also made a bold attempt to fill the gaps by using early conceptual work, mainly from ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One]]'' and the ''[[Ambarkanta]]'', combining the later known maps with the sketches used by Tolkien to provide "world maps" of [[Arda]] in its entirety and show [[Aman]], [[Beleriand]]'s position relative to [[Eriador]], and the place of [[Númenor]] in the Sea.<br />
<br />
It was, however, published before the final three volumes of ''[[The History of Middle-earth]]'' were published, and thus some maps are based on [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s early works, which were revised in later writings.<br />
<br />
==Errors and criticism==<br />
Despite being a thoroughly researched and well-respected reference book, the ''Atlas'' is known to contain several errors. However, a number of these were corrected in the revised edition, as noted below.<br />
<br />
===Inconsistencies with earlier publications===<br />
*Pages 4 and 5: The [[Grey Mountains (ancient)|Grey Mountains]] are shown in western [[Haradwaith]] south of the [[Great Gulf]] rather than in the [[Dark Land|Southlands]].<ref>{{SM|5b}} p. 239</ref><br />
*Page 13: Nogrod is shown north of Belegost, and both south of Mount Dolmed. ''[[The Silmarillion]]'' states that Nogrod was the more southerly of the two. [[The Shaping of Middle-earth]] states that Gabilgathol (Belegost) was "north of the great height of Mount Dolmed".<br />
*Pages 39 and 88: On both pages, [[Drúwaith Iaur]] is shown north of the [[Ered Nimrais]] and south of the [[Angren]], and on page 39 extending east below the [[Adorn]]. In the Unfinished Tales map, Drúwaith Iaur is in the narrow area between the ocean and the southern Ered Nimrais, south of the mouth of the [[Angren]].<ref>{{UT|Index}}, "Map"</ref><br />
*Page 71: [[Hardbottle]] is shown in the Southfarthing rather than the Northfarthing.<ref name="Nomen">{{HM|N}}, p. 771</ref> Sackville, shown in the Southfarthing, is entirely invented (compare the [[Sackville Family]]).<br />
*Page 89: [[Tarnost]] is shown as a city separate from [[Ethring]] though it may be a discarded name for the latter from early drafts.<ref>{{HM|AoL}}, p. 139</ref><br />
*Pages 92 and 93: [[Lithlad]] is shown in the south of [[Mordor]] rather than the northeast.<br />
*Page 99: It is written that Bilbo gave the Arkenstone to the Elvenking and Bard on 22 November, then Dáin arrived in the early morning on 23 November. In ''The Hobbit'', [[Bilbo Baggins|Bilbo]] gave away the [[Arkenstone]] and then returned before midnight to wake up Bombur.<ref>{{H|Thief}}</ref> The next day, there was a new parley, it was revealed that the Elves and Men had the Arkenstone, and [[Thorin|Thorin]] expelled Bilbo from the [[Lonely Mountain]]. On the ''next'' morning, Dáin arrived.<ref name="Burst">{{H|Burst}}</ref> Fonstad's timeline has Dáin arrive in one day, while the text of ''The Hobbit'' has him arrive in two days. Either Dáin must have arrived on 24 November or Bilbo must have handed over the Arkenstone late on 21 November.<br />
*Page 106: In ''The Hobbit'', the Dwarves saw a fire off in the woods. "The light was ahead of them and to the ''left'' of the path".<ref>{{H|Flies}}</ref> In Fonstad's map the dwarves left the path to the right. ''(Corrected in 2nd edition.)''<br />
*Page 125: [[Combe]] is shown laying to the northwest of [[Staddle]] on the east side of the [[Bree-hill]], while in fact Combe should lie a little east of Staddle's location.<ref>{{FR|Sign}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Inconsistencies with later publications===<br />
Both the first and second editions of the ''Atlas'' were written before the final three volumes of [[The History of Middle-earth]] were published, so at certain points it is contradicted by this later material. [[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien]], which was published between the first and second editions of the ''Atlas'', is not taken into account in the revision.<br />
*Page viii: [[Middle-earth]] dominates much of the northern hemisphere of [[Arda]] [[Changing of the World|made round]], with [[Forochel]] being high in the polar regions of the world and [[Umbar]] laying more than halfway southward between the northern pole and the [[Girdle of Arda|equator]].<br />
**In [[Letter 294]], Tolkien confirms that [[Hobbiton]] is intended to be at the latitude of [[wikipedia:Oxford|Oxford]], with [[Minas Tirith]] 600 miles south being near to the latitude of [[wikipedia:Florence|Florence]]. With this information, it is clear that Middle-earth would be hardly as large as it appears on the ''Atlas'' map of a round Arda.<br />
*Pages 4 and 5: The [[Sea of Helcar]] is seen to cover the area of future [[Mordor]], [[Khand]], and [[Rhûn]], and the [[Sea of Rhûn]] and [[Sea of Núrnen]] are shown as its remnants. The [[Orocarni]] in the East are approximately 800 to 1700 miles away from the [[Misty Mountains]].<br />
**In ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', there are references to the Sea of Rhûn existing in the [[First Age]], as well as the forest to its northeast and the hills to its southwest, indicating that it must be separate from the Sea of Helcar.<br />
** ''The Peoples of Middle-earth'' also indicates that the distance between the Orocarni in the East and the Misty Mountains, specifically [[Gundabad]], was said to be as great or greater than that of Gundabad's distance to the [[Blue Mountains]] in the West.<ref>{{PM|Dwarves}}</ref><br />
*Pages 38 and 39: The western shores of [[Lindon]] and the [[Ethir Anduin]] are shown to exist in the [[Second Age]] of the world as they did in the [[Third Age]].<br />
**''The Peoples of Middle-earth'' tells that during the [[Akallabêth|Downfall of Númenor]], Lindon lost much land to the advancing shores, while the eastern and southern portions of the [[Bay of Belfalas]] retreated back, putting the city of [[Pelargir]], which had been only a few miles from the coast, much farther inland.<br />
<br />
===Internal inconsistencies===<br />
*Pages 12 and 53: [[Dorthonion]] and [[Himring]] are located slightly above parallel J. However much later, [[Tol Fuin]] and [[Himling]] are seen much northern, above parallel I.<br />
*Pages 38 and 41: [[Belegost]] has been moved 150 miles further south than previously shown to the middle of the southern [[Blue Mountains]].<br />
*Pages 53, 76, and 80: On page 53, [[Rhosgobel]] is located near the border of [[Mirkwood]] well ''south'' of the [[Old Forest Road]], due east of [[Moria]]. On pages 76 and 80, Rhosgobel is still at the edge of the forest, but ''north'' of the Old Forest Road. One or the other location should have been used, not both.<br />
**In ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', it is stated that in December of [[TA|TA3019]], scouts "had climbed the pass at the source of the [[Gladden River]], and had come down into [[Rhovanion|Wilderland]] and over the [[Gladden Fields]] and so at length had reached the old home of [[Radagast]] at Rhosgobel", which supports the page 53 location.<ref>{{FR|II3}}</ref> <br />
**In ''[[Unfinished Tales]]'', [[Christopher Tolkien]] states that Rhosgobel was "in the forest borders between the [[Carrock]] and the Old Forest Road".<ref>{{UT|Istari}}, Note 4</ref><br />
<br />
===Typographical errors===<br />
*Page 2: [[Sea of Ringil]] is written as "Sea of Ringol".<br />
*Page 7: [[Ezellohar]] is written as "Ezollahar". [[Ilmarin]] is written as "Ilmaren". [[Tol Eressëa|Eressëa]] is written as "Erresëa". <br />
*Pages 6 and 38: [[Avallónë]] is written as "Avalónnë" and "Avalonnë" respectively.<br />
*Pages 7 and 38: [[Alqualondë]] is written as "Aqualondë".<br />
*Page 13: [[Gabilgathol]] is written as "Gabilgathod".<br />
*Page 53: [[Caras Galadhon]] is written as "Caras Galadon".<br />
*Page 71: [[Tuckborough]] is written as "Tuckburrow".<br />
*Page 113: [[Bolg]] is written as "Borg".<ref name="Burst"/> ''(Corrected in 2nd edition.)''<br />
*Page 135: [[Methedras]] is written as "Mathedras".<br />
*Page 148: [[Gamling|Gamling the Old]] is written as "Gambling the Old".<br />
*Page 189: [[Khuzdul]], the language of the [[Dwarves]], is labeled as "[[Khazâd]]".<br />
<br />
===Use of early sources===<br />
The usage of early concepts of the ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part One]]'' alongside the established [[canon]] is questionable. In [[Aman]], Fonstad identified the early name "[[Hanstovánen]]" and also describes various dwellings of the [[Valar]] in [[Valinor]]. The same happens with [[Tol Eressëa]], whose Second Age map portrays [[Tavrobel]] and [[Kortirion]], and [[Gondolin]], where several landmarks are brought in from early works. Fonstad seems to have been aware of the potential issues with incorporating these places named in early writings, and explicitly points out the especially speculative nature of these maps of the Undying Lands in the accompanying text.<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Atlas of Middle-earth, The}}<br />
{{title|italics}}<br />
[[Category:Map books]]<br />
[[Category:Publications by title]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Amras&diff=323822Amras2020-11-24T16:58:34Z<p>BartekChom: links</p>
<hr />
<div>{{sources}}<br />
{{noldor infobox<br />
| name=Amras<br />
| image=[[File:Jenny Dolfen - Amrod and Amras, sons of Feanor.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Amrod and Amras, sons of Feanor" by [[Jenny Dolfen]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames= ''[[Telufinwë]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]])</br>''[[Ambarussa]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Amilessë|mn]])</br>''Minyarussa'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[epessë]])<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Tirion]]<br />
| affiliation=[[Oath of Fëanor]]<br />
| language=[[Quenya]]<br />
| birth=after {{YT|1190}} and before {{YT|1497}}<br />
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]<br />
| rule=<br />
| death={{FA|538}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Third Kinslaying]] at the [[Mouths of Sirion|Havens of Sirion]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Fëanor]]<br />
| parentage=[[Fëanor]] and [[Nerdanel]]<br />
| siblings=[[Maedhros]], [[Maglor]], [[Celegorm]], [[Caranthir]], [[Curufin]] and [[Amrod]] (twin)<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=Copper red<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}} '''Amras''' and his twin brother [[Amrod]] were the youngest sons of [[Fëanor]]. Through their mother [[Nerdanel]]'s line, they inherited red hair, instead of Fëanor's dark hair.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
<br />
He, like his brothers, participated in the [[Flight of the Noldor]]. He was deeply attached to his twin brother, and thus they were called "''[[Ambarussa]]''" (see below). They were nearly identical, being alike in both face and mood,<ref name=Eldamar>{{S|Eldamar}}</ref> but the elder brother, Amrod, had a darker shade of auburn hair after childhood.<ref name=Sons/><br />
<br />
After Fëanor's death, he dwelt in the wide plains of [[East Beleriand]], and with his brother, was known as a great hunter.<ref name=Eldamar/> Amras and his elder brother had little direct involvement with the [[Siege of Angband]],<ref name=Beleriand>{{S|Beleriand}}</ref> but they were present at each [[kinslaying]]. If their brothers needed aid or shelter, they supported their brothers. He and his twin died during the attack made by the Sons of Fëanor on the [[Mouths of Sirion|Havens of Sirion]] in {{FA|538}}.<ref name=Voyage>{{S|Voyage}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Etymology ==<br />
Amras' [[father-name]] in [[Quenya]] was '''[[Telufinwë]]''', "Last [of] Finwë", for he was the last of the sons of the [[House of Finwë]], and its short form was ''Telvo''. His [[Amilessë|mother-name]] was '''[[Ambarussa]]''' ("top-russet", referring to his hair). His twin Amrod shared the same mother-name for a time (see ''[[Amrod]]'' for further information). While in [[Aman]], others called him '''Minyarussa''', which means "First-''russa''".<br />
<br />
The name ''Amras'' is the Sindarin version of ''Ambarussa''.<ref>{{VT|41b}}, p. 10</ref><br />
<br />
In later notes found in ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', Tolkien mentions that he wished to change the name to ''[[Amros]]'' because of linguistic issues.<br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree| MHT | | MIR |y| FIN |y| IND | | | | | | | | | | | | |MHT=[[Mahtan]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>| MIR=[[Míriel]]<br/><small>''d. {{YT|1170}}''</small>|FIN=[[Finwë]]<br/><small>''d. {{YT|1495}}''</small>|IND=[[Indis]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree| |!| | | | | |!| | | |)|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree| NRD |~|y|~| FEA | | FDS | | FNG | | IRM | | FRF | | |NRD=[[Nerdanel]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|FEA=[[Fëanor]]<br/><small>''{{YT|1169}} - {{YT|1497|n}}''</small>|FDS=[[Findis]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]<br/><small>''{{YT|1190}} - {{FA|456}}''</small>|IRM=[[Írimë]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|FRF=[[Finarfin]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT|1230}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree| |,|-|-|^|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree| MDH | | MAG | | CEL | | CAR | | CUR | | AMD | | AMR |MDH=[[Maedhros]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|587}}''</small>|MAG=[[Maglor]]<br/><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|CEL=[[Celegorm]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|506}}''</small>|CAR=[[Caranthir]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|506}}''</small>|CUR=[[Curufin]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|506}}''</small>|AMD=[[Amrod]]<br/><small>''d. {{FA|538}}''</small>|AMR='''AMRAS'''<br/><small>''d. {{FA|538}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | CLB | | | | | | | | |CLB=[[Celebrimbor]]<br/><small>''d. {{SA|1697}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
== Other versions of the legendarium ==<br />
In the draft of the legend of Amrod,<ref name=Sons>{{PM|XI7}}</ref> after his brother's death in the swan-ship of the [[Teleri]] at [[Losgar]], Amras dared speak against his father, and was the last to do so. It should be noted to avoid confusion that in this draft the twins were switched, and [[Amrod]] ('[[Umbarto]]' or '[[Ambarto]]') was the younger and Amras ('Ambarussa') the elder. In ''The Silmarillion'', Amrod is the elder and Amras is the younger.<br />
<br />
{{quote|In the morning the host was mustered, but of Fëanor's seven sons only six were to be found. Then Ambarussa went pale with fear. 'Did you not then rouse Ambarussa my brother (whom you called Ambarto)?' he said. 'He would not come ashore to sleep (he said) in discomfort.' But it is thought (and no doubt Fëanor had guessed this also) that it was in the mind of Ambarto to sail his ship back [?afterwards] and rejoin Nerdanel; for he had been much [?shocked] by the deed of his father. That ship I destroyed first,' said Fëanor (hiding his own dismay). 'Then rightly you gave the name to the youngest of your children,' said Ambarussa, 'And ''Umbarto'' "the Fated" was its true form. Fell and fey are you become.' And after that no one dared to speak again to Fëanor of this matter.|''[[The Shibboleth of Fëanor]]''}}<br />
<br />
In earlier stages of development, Amras' name changed a number of times. In ''[[The Book of Lost Tales Part Two]]'' his name was Díriel, Dinithel and Durithel.<ref>{{LT2 | IV}}, pp. 241, 245, 251</ref><br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:First Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:Noldor]]<br />
[[Category:Sindarin names]]<br />
[[Category:Sons of Fëanor]]<br />
[[de:Amras]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/noldor/amras]]<br />
[[fi:Amras]]</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sage&diff=323821User talk:Sage2020-11-24T16:36:18Z<p>BartekChom: /* Melian [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Melian&diff=next&oldid=311926] */ Thank you.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{w|Hyarion|[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]}}<br />
==Tale of Years==<br />
It's a known fact that the Tale of Years is full of mistakes, however, most of these were corrected in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th anniversary edition]]. That should be included as well. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:54, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Standards==<br />
We should really include this in the welcome message, but just FYI: [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style]]. This is in reference to your use of "LotR" in [[Gildor|Gildor Inglorion]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:39, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Elves ==<br />
<br />
What published works say that elves are taller?<br />
<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 20:58, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:from the Appendices: <br />
*the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed<br />
<br />
:Since the writer of the Appendices is a Man, and his readers are also Men, why would he describe the Eldar as tall and not as short?<br />
<br />
:Some characters, both Elves and Men are mentioned to be tall, and I understand these can be understood as 'relativistic'; for example you can say that the Eldar were tall relative to the other Elves, but still shorter than Men (although this explanation is quite tentative, and plausible only if you ''want'' to prove that Elves were shorter). I skimmed through the Silmarillion and saw that while the people of Marach are said to be tall, and while other men described as tall such as Galdor the Tall, most references were about Elves. <br />
:*Ingwë the High King, golden-haired and tall<br />
:*The seven sons of Fëanáro were Maedhros the tall...<br />
:*their sister was Ar-feiniel the White. She was younger in the years of the Eldar than her brothers; and when she was grown to full stature and beauty she was tall and strong<br />
:*[Thingol] tallest of all the Children of Ilúvatar<br />
:*But Eöl, though stooped by his smithwork, was no Dwarf, but a tall Elf of a high kin of the Teleri<br />
:*[Maeglin] was tall and black-haired; his eyes were dark<br />
<br />
:I don't argue that the assumption that more Elves than Men tended to be tall, can be proben by a statistical analysis. However if Elves are shorter, why Thingol was to be the tallest of all Elves and Men, and not some Man? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Well, Tolkien stated that elves and men were at first "of a like size" (that is probably the best description in the whole legendarium for their size difference) in the BOLT2. If this is true, whether they became smaller in later ages or not, Thingol could easily be the tallest of all the Children of Iluvatar, but that doesn't mean that most elves were taller than men. Also, more elves are described as tall in the Silmarillion than men because the Silmarillion was almost all about elves, and the very few central character men that were in it were often described as tall, such as Tuor and Turin, as were many men of later ages, especially of Numenorian decent.<br />
<br />
While the elves may not be shorter than men in general, I do not think it can be said with certainty that they are taller. By the way, can we make a real talk page/forum for this?<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:48, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I am new here, I don't know the process so be my guest. But as a last note, I also remember in BOLT 1 that Elves are shorter, and I was shocked. Furthermore, I think I also read a comment that this idea was later dropped. Anyway I hope you are aware that the BOLT books take place in a different 'continuity' and shouldn't be considered as guides for the general canon. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:51, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Perhaps they shouldn't be considered canon, but from '''''Tolkien's Legendarium; Essays on The History of Middle-earth'''''; "...there are Tolkien's latest thoughts, his best thoughts, and his published thoughts and these are not necessarily the same."<br />
That is probably the wisest analysis that I have ever read about the world of Middle earth.<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:31, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Amras==<br />
<br />
Hi and welcome to TG (I never "officially" got to greet you). [[Amras]] now. I know it is not much what you wrote, but please don't do it again in the future when you see that "claimed" tag. I am asking this of you as nice as I can and I can only hope that you'll understand it. I know you saw a mistake and wanted to correct it, but keep in mind that all the Sons will get rewritten by me to the last word in those articles, so all the errors will be fixed. It is just a matter of time. There are over 7000 articles here. I'm sure there's plenty of work for all of us. All the best! :) ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 05:24, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yes I know you are asking it nicely (I am not of those hot-tempered people who frown at each scolding :P) and I understand. But last time I asked I was told its usage was mainly to avoid edit conflicts and loss of data, therefore it's not always that ''bad'' to edit minimally those articles in the meantime (of course there is a problem with larger edits). So my edit was to make sure that you wouldn't miss that mistake and leave it there intact. Anyway I won't do this again (at least with your claimed articles :)). I trust you will do a good work. Namarie :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:41, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::My bad for that. I voiced my personal opinion. Like I said, guidelines are too grey. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 06:58, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::: Sage - It's a good thing at least one of us isn't from that kind of hot-tempered people :)) If you won't agree with something I'll write in future articles (for various reasons, like better knowledge of the text), feel free to drop me a message and corrections will be made, promise. Ederchil - There's no such thing as "my bad" here. :) Thank you both for understanding. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 13:52, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Dwarf names==<br />
A couple of things... there are several etymological theories about the Dwarf-names in the ''Dvergatal''. Therefore, I think it's important to state the source of the translation, and add others as well. Also, place Etymolgies above Genealogies, and use double ", not '. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:49, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Right away [[User:Sage|Sage]] 04:50, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::And maybe it's handy to mention the language as well, re: [[Arkenstone]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 10:20, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Meetings ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to [[Forum:Meetings|here]]. We are currently discussing the idea of a weekly site meeting. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:11, 7 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Individual Tengwar==<br />
Since you're listing the Westron names, you should really mention ''Report from Marquette'' by Jim Allan among the references. Even if you haven't read it. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:07, 15 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==References==<br />
Hiya. Just a note: <nowiki><ref> tags don't work unless you include a <references/> section at the end (or rather, a <small><references></small> section). </nowiki>-- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:02, 22 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==[[:Template:HM]]==<br />
Any thoughts? Other than "Expand to include LotR, S, H and UT" and "Add chapters"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Next Meeting ==<br />
<br />
It is planned that we hold our next meeting on the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 April 2009|5<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 April 2009|here]].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: Geia!==<br />
Geia sou kai esena! dystyxws den to exw to allo vivlio tou Tsouli alla to xw diavasei... o typos einai kamenos.<br />
<br />
Xairomai pou kai alloi ellhnares diavazoun Tolkien kai grafoun so Tolkien Gateway. Kai se eixa dei polles fores sto Recent changes kai den hxera oti eisai ellhnas... nomizw pws sou eixa grapsei ena talk page se kapoio athro sta agglika... [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 15:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Next Meeting==<br />
<br />
Sorry to clutter up your talk page, but just informing you about the next meeting. It is planned that we hold our next meeting on '''Monday''' the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/13 April 2009|13<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/13 April 2009|here]]. Remember that it's on Easter Monday, not Easter Sunday. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Xristos Anesth==<br />
Xristos Anesth re patriwth! xronia polla![[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 08:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Multiple language words==<br />
Just a question how to deal with words that exist in multiple languages - [[Tur]], [[Tûr]], [[Aran]] for example. What layout do we use? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Orcs==<br />
Exw dei edw kai kairo oti psaxnete gia contributors stin selida twn Orcs. Loipon, ama psaxnete akomh endiaferomai egw na voithisw giati ta goustarw poly ta Orcs. Oti idees exeis pes mou. [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 14:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Tengwar==<br />
A lot of the tengwar pages require specific fonts, and people that don't have those fonts installed get gibberish. How about a template at the top, saying "for optimal reading, this page requires any of the following fonts"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==[[Common Eldarin|CE]] "3"==<br />
I see you use the 3 to represent the [[wikipedia:Yogh|yogh]]/ʒ. If you look at the edittools bar ("Insert:") at the bottom, you can see the actual symbol next to the dagger symbol. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Amrod]] (and [[Amras]]) ==<br />
<br />
You’re not wrong in what you added to the etymology of that name (although ''Ambaráto'' is the Telerin form, appropriate for Aegnor, whereas Amrod would of course have the Quenya form ''Ambarto''), but unfortunately it makes the messed up alignment of names that was already there even worse. Have a look at what I wrote on the Talk pages of both twins, and see if you can follow what I argue. Feel free to get back to me (or add to the Talk pages) when you got problems. But I think probably the time has come to untangle the mess and reorganise both articles (on the twins). I would be glad of your opinion on that. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:40, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Upcoming Meeting ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering if you wanted to attend an upcoming meeting this Sunday. If you can make, please [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/27 June 2010|sign up]]. Thanks! --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Cirth/Angerthas ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering why you moved Angerthas Daeron, Angerthas Erebor and Angerthas Moria to [[Cirth/Angerthas Daeron]], [[Cirth/Angerthas Erebor]] and [[Cirth/Angerthas Moria]] respectively? It seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me (especially as no article links directly to these three), and I'm not sure what they mean as subtitles: are they meant to be subpages of [[Cirth]] or are you just indicating in the titles that "''cirth''" can be used as another name for "''angerthas''"? Would you object if I were to move them back to their original articles? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:22, 7 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==New words==<br />
Hi Sage! Sorry to trespass your linguistic ground by creating an article for ''[[Mae]]''. Since you have more experience on this field, do you have any thoughts on what I did on the page? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:31, 28 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Meeting - Sunday 5th September ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Sage! Just a quick message to inform you that we are holding our next [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings|Meeting]] on [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010|Sunday, 5<sup>th</sup> September 2010]] at 7pm [[wikipedia:UTC|UTC]]. Whether you are or aren't able to attend, please sign your name on the [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 September 2010|here]]. Hope to see you on Sunday! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Meeting - Sunday 3rd October ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage - do you reckon you'll be available for [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|tomorrow's meeting]]? It would be good to see you there! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A Few Issues ==<br />
<br />
Just a few things I think you should know about:<br />
* This may seem trivial, but could you make sure that you end your sentences in a full-stop?<br />
* When quoting, you should indicate such with quotation marks, otherwise it is technically plagiarism.<br />
* With regards to references, [[Template:References]] has to be at the bottom of the article, or else they won't work (see [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Amon_Amarth&curid=1115&oldid=128927 this], for example).<br />
* Also re: referencing, could you make sure you include page numbers for all publications save for ''The Hobbit'', ''The Lord of the Rings'', ''The Silmarillion'' and ''The Unfinished Tales''; in particular, '' A Readers' Companion'' has only one pagination so there is no need to omit page numbers.<br />
**I am using a copy of ''Nomenclature'' that was handed to me before the Companion was published, so I can't know the pages. In any case I think it is not necessary, since the Nomenclature is arranged like a dictionary. If that's a problem, then I should reference simply "Nomenclature" instead. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* There's no need to remove interwiki links (unless they are incorrect).<br />
**You mean the links to other languages? That must be by accident, I didn't meddle with those. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Also, I really must ask that you don't move articles unless there is clear reason, and when you do, use the Move button at the top of the page, and don't copy and paste. The problem with copying and pasting is that it separates an article from its history and therefore obscures its development. Obviously, if the article is spelt incorrectly, is clearly under an under-used name, or uses our old verbose disambiguation system, you can move it without debate, but otherwise it's best to just do a quick message on the talk page (and if no one replies assume it's safe to proceed).<br />
**I try to separate English-named articles from Elvish-named articles. My personal rule of thumb is that the main article is under the English name; the Elvish articles have a link to the main article, and linguistic/etymological notes. When I see e.g. both Silvertine and Zirakzigil redirect to Celebdil, the best thing I can do is replace the redirects with actual content, and copy the bulk of the text to the one that fits most; I can't put an explanation of "tine" in the article for Celebdil, and I can't create an article for Silvertine only to put this explanation. The 'Move' action was unavailable because the target was occupied by the redirects. I understand that copying instead of moving must cause such issues, but while in the fever of adding etymologies and encountering these obstacles, I confess that the issues you mentioned seemed trivial at that moment *blush* [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Disambiguation pages should only include the actual articles which require disambiguating - etymological information (other than a brief description in the opening line) should be seeded into the individual articles.<br />
**I fail to understand the reason. Why should the etymology of the name "Hurin" be copied to the five articles of the five individuals called Hurin and not in the single disambiguation page? In similar cases I'd write the full etymology in the disambig page and in the individual articles put a "See Hurin (disambiguation)" link under "Etymology". It seems cleaner and tidier that way. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Re: categorisation. There is no point categorising articles in categories which don't exist; it does nothing and just puts a redlink at the bottom of the page. Creation categories (and categorising them), is exactly the same as creation (and categorising) articles. (See [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Oathbreakers&oldid=128044 this] for the redlink.)<br />
None of the above is meant in vitriol, rudeness, admonition or patronisation: it's just a few pointers to make sure that TG conforms to the very highest standards to be something we can all be proud of. Do keep up the work, here - you are a ''very'' valued contributor. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:08, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Also, be sure to follow the advice given {{Redlink|[[Portal:Locations/Category tree|here]]}} on the Locations category structure. It seems a lot of editors don't understand the structure I put in place, that page should go some way in explaining what to do (if unsure, just ask me :) ). --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:56, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== File:Beleriand-eriador-fonstad.png ==<br />
[[File:Steven White Jr. - ME FA 02.gif|thumb|right|150px]]<br />
Hi there. Can you please tell me whose maps you used to create the compound map? The basic Beleriand map is obviously the one derived by me (with the cut-outs where the forst labels are in CT's original map) when I first attempted to join CT's maps at Mount Himring. See an earlier sketch of said map on the right. I wonder how that ended up on the web at all...<br />
[[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 23:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi there. I made this composition some years ago, using elements from various maps I had found online. My purpose was to portray a "sunken" Beleriand with the 3rd Age outline of Lindon, and Fonstad's North. It seems that I used your composite map as a base (yes, the one where you have Himring marked in red). When I edited the map recently in order to upload it, I had a [[Wikipedia:false memory|false memory]] that my base had been Fonstad's Arda map, including the shores and outlines; but now that you made me check again, I saw that the southern shoreline as she envisioned it, differs greatly from this one. It turns out that the greater part of this map is your work. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 01:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You mean the one on the right? Where did you find that? The file is almost 10 years old and I had forgotten about it. I later adjusted the southern coastline, as can be seen on the map in my user page. Those were the days before Photoshop :-) Maybe I should get into the mapmaking business again. My clash with the Tolkien Estate is 6 years back, after all. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 07:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I had a newer version of that map of yours, part of a big collection of fan-made maps I had downloaded from fansites. I think this one was on Tolkienion.com? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Ah, that may be. I had to remove the maps section of the Tolkienion when I got in trouble over the maps. However, the maps still exist [http://7a6972656f5f74637568.killerhor.net/index2.php?framesource=indexframe.php here]. But the map you used is not there. I have lost a couple of maps when I had a hard drive failure a few years back. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 13:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Elvish roots/stems==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. I have a question about how to interpret a specific form often occurring in the ''Etymologies''. For example, for the base AK-, the form *''akrā'' appears, after which follows the Quenya and Noldorin forms. Now, my question is: what is the form *''akrā'' supposed to signify? Primitive Quendian? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 13:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for the quick answer (for other editors, see [[User talk:Morgan#Roots]])! I hope you don't mind that I have some related questions (I suggest that you answer here, since that makes it easier to follow the conversation):<br />
#Which form should we use as title for these articles? ÁLAT- or just ÁLAT? I've noticed that earlier root articles omit the hyphen. Is this intentional? I started to include the hyphens in the articles I just created, since this is how they appear in the ''Etymologies''.<br />
**I guess the hyphens indicate that the roots are not complete words. Since this is one of the definitions of a root, and '''all''' roots have one, I consider trivial such an indication. If you look at Ardalambion or linguistic discussions in the mailing lists, there is no hyphen. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#How should we think about the e/ë question in Quenya words? Should the name of the article be, for example, aiwe or aiwë?<br />
**I am against using the diaereses for several reasons, but I think the TG prefers to include them. A couple of Quenya articles I wrote were renamed by some other editor. In any case, I never use them :D [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***According to Fauskanger, "''Tolkien often uses the diaeresis (two dots as in Manwë) to clarify the pronunciation of Elvish names for readers of English, but it is hardly ever used in the Etymologies, a work that was never intended for wider circulation.''" ([http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/index/indexs.htm]). Perhaps this is a good reason to actually use the diaereses? Or is it possible for you to explain the reasons against using them? I just noticed the issue in the article on ''[[yáve]]''. I found out that the spelling ''yávë'' is used in ''The Silmarillion'' (appendix) - isn't then this the more "proper" (canonical?) spelling? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#A general linguistic remark: right now, the standard on TG is to use the past tense in article text which is "inside" the legendarium. However, in linguistic texts (such as etymology sections and "dictionary" articles on specific words) we always use the present tense. Is there a reason behind these different uses? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:51, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
**I see that languages, as abstract entities, are outside of time. Once a language exists, its vocabulary and rules will always "exist", even if the language itself is dead or ancient. For example everyone says "Amor in Latin means love" rather than "meant". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***Good point. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Dots===<br />
The dots signify nothing to Quenya itself. Tolkien in his personal writings (and the Elves) did not use dots. Its quite different from the accents which '''are''' significant to the language and denote a long vowel; yave and yáve would be two different words, with different pronunciation, and different Tengwar spelling.<br><br />
On the contrary, the dots don't exist in the language and are of course not represented in tengwar. Tolkien invented them for the published books only to visually assist the occasional English readers to remember that ''e'' is pronounced. In fact, all ''e''s in Quenya are pronounced but the English (or French, who also has silent ''e''s) reader perhaps needs such a reminder. yáve and yávë are not different spellings, they are exactly the same thing, only that yávë is perhaps more visually helpful for the English (or the French).<br><br />
The reason '''not''' to use the dots, besides being not a part of the language, is that it's quite more complicated to write and search in the wiki for ''yávë'' than ''yáve''.<br><br />
And if I may mention, in Albanian ''ë'' signifies a silent ''e'', so it would have the contrary effect to an Albanian reader :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I am personally in favour of the diaereses: this is an English-language website aimed at those who know English - diaereses have a clear meaning in English which I think it is important to maintain. Furthermore, should we be over-ruling the Professor's use of diaereses? <br />
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:The problem of typing/searching can be solved by redirects. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:31, 2 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::I agree with Mith, I think we should use Yávë, with Yáve as redirects. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]]<br />
::I'd argue that the Professor used the diaereses with publication in mind, not as a rule-not-to-be-over-ruled; or else such forms would be seen in HoMe. It would be interested to bring the matter up in the forum, what do you say? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 20:03, 4 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::I don't know if a publication post-mortem can really be conclusive evidence either way of the professor's intentions. However, as you point out, the Professor included diaereses with publication in mind and he never had HOME in mind for publication (and if he did we can't know that he wouldn't have gone through adding diaereses). I think it's a moot point, really. <br />
:::Furthermore, is it not confusing to readers not so well-versed in Tolkienian linguistics to encounter words lacking diaereses where they think they should see them? (I notice, for instance, that many scholars retain diaereses where Tolkien uses them.)<br />
:::I know it can be hard for non-native speakers of English to understand, but the diaereses really is a valuable tool in aiding pronunciation amongst native speakers (remember Cate Blanchett's "''The light of Erendil''"!), and, contrary to popular belief amongst some (non-native speakers) scholars, it is understand by many: words such as coöperate, continuüm, reëlect, zoölogy and naïve as well as names like Chloë, Zaïre, Boötes, and the Brontë Sisters. Notwithstanding the above, I would still support the use of diaereses as a distinguishing feature of unusualness: in English, any form of diacritic signifies "''I am a foreign word.''" - it creates an aura of intrigue and mystery which I wouldn't wish to lose.<br />
:::It would be good if you could attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 December 2010|the meeting today]], I've added this issue on the list of things to discuss. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:44, 5 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==Elvish/PQ==<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to this question of mine: [[Talk:ÁS-AT]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Second Age Globe ==<br />
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As you pointed out, I completely forgot that Arda wasn't made round until the end of the Second Age. I really like the images you put together for the First Age and Third Age globes as I used in my [[User:KingAragorn/Sandbox|sandbox]] for the location portal. Would it be possible for you to create a Second Age globe in the same style? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==Boromir and Beornings==<br />
Hello Sage! Just drawing you attention to [[Talk:Boromir#Etymology]] and [[Talk:Beornings]], where I discuss your edits.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
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==Use of asterisk==<br />
I noted that you use both single and double asterisks in the article on [[Valaraukar]]. I think the use needs to be explained, either by making the asterisks into links (as was my initial idea), or, as can be seen here [[Talk:*]], where [[User:Mith]] is of the opinion that we should avoid the use of asterisk altogether. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 15:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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:I am not sure on what you want me to comment [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::What does the double asterisk (**) signify? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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:::The double asterisk is explained in [[asterisk]] :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:00, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::::Oh, thank you! :) Then I'll go ahead and make internal links for the asterisks (at least for the time being - since there is a debate on wether we should use asterisks or not). (BTW, don't you find it more convenient to keep a conversation to one talk page? It tends to get confusing having to switch between talk pages when following a conversation.) /Cheers --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Taniquetil ==<br />
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Hi Sage! On this article I removed the redlinks as I find redlinks ugly whilst showing to the reader where our holes are (and giving false hope that those articles may exist); I personally think redlinks shouldn't be created unless you expect to create the article ''yourself'' or have a realistic expectation that someone else will do so soon. Are you intending on creating articles for ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, personally I don't think redlinks ugly and I consider them only 'work to be done in the future'. For example, if someone ever will create an article for "nique", he will have to manually trace every page containing the word and wikify it. I believe redlinks can be useful by the "Wanted Pages" of the "What links here" features. But I respect the different aesthetics about the wiki. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:02, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::I accept that - and indeed agree - so long as it ''is'' "work to be done in the future" and not just "work someone else ''might'' do at some point"; if an article never gets created the redlink serves no useful function. We have 6690 wanted pages (of which a good chunk are linguistic ones) - a figure which is increasing and not decreasing - so the work isn't really getting done; in the meeting last September I argued, "''let's be honest, they probably aren't all articles waiting to happen''".<br />
::The problem is especially true for linguistic articles because it's such a specialised area there are very few people who know enough to edit those articles and even fewer who are happy to do so, therefore you can't ever realistically expect anyone to ever create those articles. Are you planning on creating links to ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:23, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Well I will have in mind to complete immediately the articles I wikify from now on. I will try to work on complete trees and their related pages when possible. Don't worry about that. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:46, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
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==PQ/PE==<br />
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Hello Sage! I need help on the following: should "Proto-Eldarin" be redirected to Primitive Quendian or Common Eldarin? Or do you think Proto-Eldarin have its own article ([http://reocities.com/athens/parthenon/9902/langlst.html Lisa Star] says that it sometimes seem to refer to PQ and sometimes to CE)? I've tried (without success) to find this term in Tolkien's writings.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Obviously Proto-Eldarin is not an attested form, but a term originating before Tolkien's writings about Primitive Quendian were published, and before any details about the Eldar vs Avari were known. I think it is safe to redirect it to Common Eldarin. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:37, 6 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
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==Etymology of ''Sauron''==<br />
Sage, do you have ideas/comments on how we should present the etymology of the name ''Sauron'' on Tolkien Gateway? Having investigated it a bit, a complete version is [[User:Morgan/Sandbox6|more complicated]] than what I think could be presented on a general wiki article. As I understand it, Tolkien struggled with deriving ''Sauron'' either from Sindarin ''thaur'' (PE:17, p. 183; EQS), or giving the name a Quenya derivation (''saura'' "cruel") ultimately deriving from a base THAW (PE:17, p. 184; Letter 297). --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
:We can mention both derivations from ''saura'' and ''thaur''. It seems like it is needed an entry on the word ''[[saura]]'' which seems to have suffered most under Tolkien's revisions, and provide them in its article. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks - I've added the info to our Sauron etymology section.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==Letter 427==<br />
Hi Sage, I just saw you added {{redlink|[[Letter 427]]}} as a reference to [[-nguo]]. This letter does however not exist, could you look into this and add the correct letter? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==Legendary locations==<br />
Ah! I had forgotten about the Last Desert - it's a good addition to the template. I'm sure there are some others I haven't thought about.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:14, 30 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
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== Images ==<br />
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Hello Sage. As you probably know, I've been sorting out images on TG and making sure that they all have the proper file licensing templates. I'm sure that you will agree that this is a mammoth task; therefore I would like to ask for your help sorting out the images that you've uploaded. Please see below for a list of files that need sorting and/or checking.<br />
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You noted on these images that they were public domain, so I've put a PD template on them. However, we need to know the author's name so that they can be categorised and named properly.<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Rumil2.gif.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Elemm.gif]]}}<br />
:The author made those as spontaneous doodles. He is not a professional and doesn't pursue any credit, and as far as I know he wouldn't like to have his name published online either. I wonder if we can support the option to name some files as "Anonymous" [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
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Please check these maps and decide whether you, [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] (her estate or publisher, I don't know), or someone else owns the copyright. You'll notice that on some I've guessed and put on a file licensing template, but please check them.<br />
:The maps I have marked with an asterisk are derivatives of (usually) Fonstad's works, therefore I don't have the authority to grant any permission to publish them under any term. I think that we should track Fonstad's copyright holders. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Almaren.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Evolution of Arda.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Reunited Kingdom.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Middle-earth.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:1050.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1105.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1115.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1125.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1132.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1149.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1150.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1200.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1300.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1350.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1498.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1129.png]]*<br />
*{{redlink|File:Belfalas 2nd Age.jpg}} (NB: I tried to contact [[Andreas Möhn]] but his e-mail bounced)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Beleriand and Eriador collage.png]] <br />
:this is a collage of maps by Fonstad, Raw and User:Smeagol [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Location of Numenor.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Great Plague.png]]<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Pan-route.png]]}}*<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Overhill-route.png]]}}*<br />
*[[:File:Pauline Baynes - The Little Kingdom.jpg]]<br />
:this is a map by Pauline Baynes, therefore it should take the template that other Baynes' images do. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
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I've put an unknown copyright status on these miscellaneous images. Please identify the copyright holder and conact them for permission. If you want me to contact them, just ask.<br />
:I do believe that it would be better if you include these in your existing work. You have better experience in this and you will do quicker and better than if we shared the work. However I will put notes to help you [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:PP banner.jpg]]<br />
:this is a derivative of collective work by members of the GTS. You can contact them from their Facebook page. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Michael Gaydos - TolkienWilliamsLewis.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Daniel reeve.jpg]]}}<br />
:the picture was taken from a package of maps by Decipher. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwafrune.gif}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwarfrunes.JPEG}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dansmith.png}}<br />
:these pictures were taken by Dan Smith's font site. FYI I contacted him once but he didn't reply [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Mani and Sol.jpg]]<br />
:I took the image from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M%C3%A1ni_and_S%C3%B3l_by_Lorenz_Fr%C3%B8lich.jpg here]. It belongs in the PD. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Alex lewis.jpg]]}}<br />
:this picture was taken by members of the GTS at Oxonmoot (I think 2002). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Idril.gif]]}}<br />
:I will try to contact MB and ask him if we can use his heraldry here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Steve Notley - Bob the Angry Flower's Lord of the Ringz.gif]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Gift.jpg]]}}<br />
:This was made by the Hildebrandts [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Brothers Hildebrandt - Return of the King.jpg]]}} (NB: I will try to contact Greg Hildebrandt)<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Cave.jpg]]}}<br />
:Made by Wenzel, however I don't know what's the copyright and if he gave permission for this [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
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Many thanks for your help!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 10:50, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
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::Thanks for the info. I shall grow through them at some point.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==Buckland==<br />
See [[Talk:Buckland]]. In no primary source does it talk about Buckland becoming part of the Shire (it does for the Westmarch, however). Indeed "Eastmarch" is not mentioned, but "East March" is (only once).--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
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== Category:Greco-Romance names ==<br />
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Hey Sage. [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012|At the meeting just gone]] we discussed your [[:Category:Greco-Roman names|Category:Greco-Romance names]]. You may have noticed that I moved it (because I thought that you have made a spelling mistake). You can read the discussion [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012/Transcript|here]]. As you can see, we decided that it would be best to diffuse the category into "Romanic names" and "Ancient Greek names". Are you happy with this? If so, could you sort it out?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Please have a look at [[Category talk:Greco-Roman names]] [[User:Sage|Sage]] 23:49, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==Westlands==<br />
I just noticed that your reference in [[Westlands]] didn't work as the parameter "X1" doesn't exist in [[Template:SD]]. I've changed it to "XI" (Epilogue). Was this correct or did you use another chapter as source? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 16:39, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Oops! yes, that's correct :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 19:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==Alatar and Pallando==<br />
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Sage, do you know of any good linguistic analysis of the names ''Alatar'' and ''Pallando''? I made a quick search, but couldn't find any -- surely it must have been discussed in VT or PE? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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:No, other than the lotr.wikia.com speculates that Pallando is related to palan/palla [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:54, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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::{{UT|Istari}}, Note 6 says: "''Pallando'', despite the spelling, perhaps contains ''palan'' 'afar', as in ''palantír'' and in ''Palarran'' 'Far Wanderer', the name of Aldarion's ship." This is C.R.T.'s speculation for Pallando, could we speculate Alatar's etymology? Or should we just say that it's unknown?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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:::Yes we could. There is ''alata'' "great", ''al(a)-'' "blessed" with ''atar'' "father" or ''tar'' "high one" and so on. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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::::Right. Just to make a note of it, Encylopedia of Arda also suggests that ''Alatar'' can be interpreted as "after-comer" [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/alatar.html].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:43, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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== Category:Angicised Westron words ==<br />
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Are you going to make ''[[Special:WantedCategories|Category:Angicised Westron words]]''?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==Maps==<br />
Who made these maps?<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:At the crossroads map.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Over hill.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Short Rest.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Roast Mutton.png]]}}--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:32, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:They are croppings from [[:File:Mith01.jpg|this map]] but since they would take the unknown-copyright tag anyway, I didn't bother to add more information for that moment. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:35, 3 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
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==Lenition/Mutation==<br />
Hello Sage! I noticed that we have no separate page for mutation in Sindarin (like we have for [[lenition]]). Do you reckon such a page could be useful, or do you know if we have any other article to which mutation can be redirected? Thanks --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:23, 12 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
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==The "Hobbit" week==<br />
Sage, do you have any thoughts about this: can the "archaic" names of the days of the week be said to be Westron, and the later names to be Hobbitish (Kuduk)? I'm just thinking of how to categorize the names according to language.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The names ''Monendei'' and so are Middle English and can be considered "Middle Westron" according to [https://sites.google.com/site/endorenya/language-periodizations this project]. The modern day names ''Monday'' etc can be considered regular developments in "modern" Westron, but I don't think we can tell how much they are proper, or Hobbitish Westron. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:34, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:For example, I am not sure if "Trewsday" was the name also used by the Rangers, Gondorians, Gandalf, etc, or whether they would say *"Treesday". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:37, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
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==Wintring==<br />
Thanks for correcting my silly edit at the Wintring article, Sage! :-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:41, 18 November 2013 (UTC)<br />
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== Bain pic ==<br />
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Since there don't seem to be any other images of Bain on the site (yet), is there really any harm in keeping the shot from "The Desolation of Smaug" as his 'profile pic,' so to speak? --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 03:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
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:According to my own personal understanding I wouldn't use it as a main picture of a canonical article, but other than that there isn't any harm keeping it as a profile pic :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:57, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
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== Articles needed citations ==<br />
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I don't know if you've ever looked through [[:Category:Articles needing citation|Articles needing citation]], but it contains 246 articles to which the <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> template has been applied. For the majority of these it appears to be on etymologies; with this is mind, I was wondering whether you (perhaps with [[User:Morgan]]'s help?) might be willing to go through these articles and either add sources or remove/amend the articles as appropriate? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:52, 11 November 2014 (UTC)<br />
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== Wereworms ==<br />
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There is no image with the wereworms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in tolkien gateway at all.Someone should upload at least an image on tolkien gateway with the wereworms as they appeared in the third Hobbit film.What do you think?<br />
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:Good idea! Go on, as I don't have any pictures from that film. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:00, 1 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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As i have said, there is no image with the were-worms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in Tolkien Gateway.Can you upload at least an image on Tolkien Gateway with the were-worms as they appeared on the third Hobbit film? You can find on Internet.I don't have the ability to upload images on Tolkien Gateway generally, but you do have this ability.<br />
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:I haven't even watched the film. Find me an image and I will consider it. Also, consider creating an account here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:13, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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Yes.I already found not only one, but two images:[http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BotFAWereWorms01.jpg this one] and [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/8/85/BOTFA_Wereworm.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150306211236 this one].What do you think? Are these images good or not?<br />
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== Discussion ==<br />
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I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].<br />
This place, Trollshaws,appears in the First Hobbit film.You can check it by seeing the movie.I am telling that because [[User:Ederchil]] removes my editing about the Trollshaws in which i say that Trollshaws do appear in the First Hobbit film.You can see it [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&action=history here] or [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&oldid=291125 here]. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
:Please check the others's replies to you, their comments and the edits they do to your edits. The administrators's obligations do NOT include discussing and explaining again ana again their points and correcting the grammar and spelling of our edits. Ederchil said he did this for most of your edits but that can't go on for ever; from a point they will start just reverting your edits, and if you insist, they will block you. As for your edit on Trollshaws, you don't add any useful information (just appearing as in the book isn't something worth to be mentioned) and also you have a grammar mistake, as in almost all of your edits (should be "its role" instead of "'''it's''' role"). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:21, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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::The IP address of this anon is in Athens. Would you be able to explain in Greek so the user can better understand why their edits are being undone/reverted/amended? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 23:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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Yes I am Greek.I am from Athens.{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
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In case you don't know it,I have already found not one, but two images about the wereworms as they were depicted in the Hobbit film Trilogy:[http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BotFAWereWorms01.jpg this one] and [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/8/85/BOTFA_Wereworm.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150306211236 this one].I found these images a week ago.So, what do you think? Are these images good or not? --[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 00:26, 13 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
:Oi sygkekrimenes den einai poly kales. Na ftiaxeis logariasmo melous wste na mporeis na dhmiourgeis arthra kai na anevazeis eikones. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 11:56, 13 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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OK.I have seen that there is no image uploaded on page [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]] about the game with the same name.I have also seen that only a single image about that game is uploaded here on Tolkien Gateway.Can you upoad at least two images (images-posters I suggest) about that game on Tolkien Gateway? I don't have the ability to upload inages in Tolkien Gateway, but you do have this ability. --[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 21:47, 13 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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:Den kanw tipota mexri na dw oti diavazeis ti sou grafw. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 22:04, 13 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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== Proposition ==<br />
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I would like to propose something.I would like not to blog me again from Tolkien Gateway if I did something wrong about the image that I just uploaded.What do you say? [[User:Gegou|Gegou]]<br />
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== Evil or Servants of Melkor ==<br />
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I am not so sure Sauron and Ungoliant should be in the Servants of Melkor category. Why? They both 'betrayed' him in their own ways: Ungoliant turned on him and attempted to devour him, while Sauron forsook his ties to him before Eonwe (sure he was afraid of the wrath of the Valar, but it's still treachery) and rose as the Enemy of Middle-earth, but pursued his own agenda instead of continuing Morgoth's work.<br />
Both Sauron and Ungoliant served Morgoth (the former more so than the latter), but they ultimately had their own purposes in mind. They joined him and carried out his bidding, but at those respective times it suited them as well: Morgoth undermined the influence of the Valar which later proved useful in Sauron's rise; Morgoth destroyed the Two Trees, allowing Ungoliant to feed on their Light and briefly sate her hunger. <br />
What I'm saying is neither is a truly loyal ally/servant. We don't even know if Sauron returned to Morgoth after his defeat by Huan and Luthien. He fled to Taur-nu-Fuin, not Angband. He might not have participated at all in the War of Wrath, explaining why he escaped the triumph of Valinor's host and why Eonwe even bothered to listen to his (un)genuine repetance. <br />
Also, on the Evil Category page it says: "Articles about evil. Evil individuals, evil places, evil objects, etc. For people, this includes the Dark Lords, evil chieftains, or otherwise doers of great evil. Servants." Sauron is a Dark Lord and Ungoliant is a doer of evil. --[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 10:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
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:I agree with removing the 'Servant of Melkor' category for Ungoliant. It is never mentioned that Ungoliant served Morgoth, they were temporal allies; and what kind of servant tries to eat his master? However, Sauron was faithful to Morgoth and his porpouses even after the First Age (both in promoting the dark cult in Númenor and becoming the new Dark Lord). He deserves to be in the 'Evil' category, though. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 10:22, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
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It was not loyalty that made Sauron promote the worship of Morgoth. Think of his situation. He is a master of Darkness, but he is now something between a prisoner and an adviser. He could hardly propound himself as a God at that time. Morgoth's name, however, and its association with evil could be used on the other hand to great effect. Let's hear J.R.R. himself:<br />
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Sauron was not a ‘sincere’ atheist, but he preached atheism, because it weakened resistance to himself (and he had ceased to fear God’s action in Arda) [...] he spoke of Melkor in Melkor’s own terms: as a god, or even as God. This may have been the residue of a state which was in a sense a shadow of good [...] Melkor, and still more Sauron himself afterwards, both profited by this darkened shadow of good and services of ‘worshippers’. '''But it may be doubted whether even such a shadow of good was still sincerely operative in Sauron by that time'''. '''His cunning motive is probably best expressed thus. To wean one of the God-fearing from their allegiance it is best to propound another unseen object of allegiance and another hope of benefits; propound to him a Lord who will sanction what he desires and not forbid it. Sauron, apparently a defeated rival for world-power, now a mere hostage, can hardly propound himself; but as the former servant and disciple of Melkor, the worship of Melkor will raise him from hostage to high priest.''' --[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 10:29, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Sauron's categorization as "servant of M" is not because of his situation on Numenor, but being his lieutenant and minion during the First Age, as all the Maiar who followed him. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 18:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
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==Lost Tales==<br />
Hi Sage! On the matter you told me early this year, about making a subwiki for the "LT-continuity", maybe we could begin creating categories and templates for Gnomes? You said to make "Lost Tales characters" categories, but many of them exist beyond the LT, but categorizing them as "Gnomes" could be a step further and will remove the anachronical "Noldo" categories/templates that many have. What do you think? --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 21:47, 13 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Melian]] <nowiki><ref name=s4/></nowiki> [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Melian&diff=next&oldid=311926] ==<br />
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It seems that you did not add text for this reference in April. Is it {{[[Template:S|S]]|4}}: {{S|4}}? [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 16:45, 19 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Excuse me, it seems that you overlooked this question. Is your s4 "Of Thingol and Melian"? [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 18:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)<br />
: I'm sorry, yes. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:30, 24 November 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Thank you. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 16:36, 24 November 2020 (UTC)<br />
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== Battle under the trees ==<br />
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Hi Sage. I just wanted to say thank you for reviewing and editing my page: Battle Under Tress. (or 'battle under the trees' as you rightly corrected me) I've been part of Tolkien Gateway for a few months now and only made minimum edits to some fairly obscure pages. You editing my page on the battle under the trees has made me feel like a part of a community for the first time here. so, nothing but, Thank You.<br />
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== Category:Races in The Book of Lost Tales ==<br />
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What is your plan with [[:Category:Races in The Book of Lost Tales]]? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:25, 18 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
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P.S. You've got a non-existent template on your user page. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:25, 18 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
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== First Edition of The Lord of the Rings ==<br />
Did you see my entries in the talk page of your user page for the first edition of The Lord of the Rings? I did a search for the keyword "edition" in all volumes of the History of Middle-earth that deal with the history of The Lord of the Rings and its appendices and also read the 50th anniversary edition. I do not own a copy of the first edition of The Lord of the Rings, so it could be that a manual comparison between the first edition and the second edition will show further differences. I did not check the prologue or any of the other appendices than Appendix A and Appendix B. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 13:44, 6 November 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you very much, all contributions are welcome, I am very happy that you find this "collection" interesting. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:04, 6 November 2020 (UTC)<br />
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== F.O. 171 or F.O. 172? ==<br />
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Hi Sage! I tried asking this same question on Mith's Talk but got no answer. Hoping you might be able to share some insight.<br />
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I noticed that references to [[Fourth Age 172|F.O. 172]] across the wiki have been mostly corrected to [[Fourth Age 171|F.O. 171]]. I can't find a reason for this that wouldn't also apply to other Fourth Age years; the note on F.O. 171 states only that the Gondor reckoning of the date of copying of the Red Book of Westmarch from the Thain's Book is F.O. 172 without getting into the ''why'' of the matter. Can you shed some light on this? I'd like to add a more robust explanation on [[Fourth Age 171|F.O. 171]] for the discrepancy if possible. Thanks! --[[Special:Contributions/75.118.149.152|75.118.149.152]] 08:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)</div>BartekChomhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:BartekChom&diff=323799User talk:BartekChom2020-11-23T20:57:01Z<p>BartekChom: /* Templates for references */ re</p>
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{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=BartekChom}}<br />
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-- [[User:Mith|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">'''Mith'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Mith|<span style="color:#696969">'''Talk'''</span>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mith|<span style="color:#708090">Contribs</span>]]/[[Special:Editcount/Mith/Edits|<span style="color:#778899">Edits</span>]])</small> 18:45, 9 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
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== Redirect ==<br />
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Hi BartekChom - well done on creating lots of redirects. However, they are only useful if either a) someone would type them into search (so most of the ones you add with diacritics aren't likely to be used) b) they may be linked to elsewhere in the wiki and c) the other names are actually mentioned in the other names section. I wouldn't want you to put in work that wasn't going to be used by readers. Cheers. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:57, 13 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
: a) I am not sure what people type. I can use compose key and try to type names with diacritics during searches. Others may have even more comfortable ways. b) I prefer to create links without |, so I use many of my redirects. Is it acceptable? Maybe others will finally use other redirects. c) I have thought that I created only redirects to articles in which the redirected names appear (plus redirects from names without diacritics). Did I miss something? d) If my work really is your main concern, I do not worry. I prefer order even just for the sake of order. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 20:16, 13 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
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::As an English wiki the vast majority of people visiting are English speakers with English keyboards which don't have diacritics. Creating links without | if they aren't deliberate isn't helpful: remember we should be editing and formatting articles for the convenience of the reader and not the editor. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: You prefer links with | - OK. You know your wiki. Probably you do not need preparation for changes in redirections and other hypothetical problems that links without | theoretically could solve. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 21:33, 13 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
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== English ==<br />
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Hi BartekChom. I see you are adding a lot of extra information to the wiki, particularly on ''The Book of Lost Tales'', which is great. However, I need to make you aware that your English language ability is not great, and I cannot act as a proofreading service for you. Could I suggest that, before you add more info to the wiki, you check with a friend or some other service just to make sure your English is up to scratch? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:57, 31 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
: I can write drafts on talk pages and when somebody has time to correct one, he will be able to move it to the article. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 02:08, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
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== Templates for references ==<br />
If you Look at the page Template:S you will See that the 4 after the | Symbol after the S stands for the chapter Of Thingol and Melian and that Thingol can be used as an alternative for 4 to produce a reference to the chapter Of Thingol and Melian from The Silmarillion. --[[User:Akhorahil|Akhorahil]] 20:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{[[Template:S|S]]|4}} is of course {{S|4}}. Thank you, I did not know that {{[[Template:S|S]]|Thingol}} is {{S|Thingol}} too. But what is Sage's <nowiki><ref name=s4/></nowiki> in the article [[Melian]]? Do you have The Silmarillion? Maybe you can check whether the information that is sourced by it is in this chapter. [[User:BartekChom|BartekChom]] 20:57, 23 November 2020 (UTC)</div>BartekChom