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{{hobbit infobox<br />
| name=Gollum<br />
| image=[[File:John Howe - Gollum.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Gollum" by [[John Howe]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=Sméagol<br/>Stinker<br/>Slinker<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=c. {{TA|2430}}<ref name=guide>{{HM|Guide}}, p. 167, entry "Gollum"</ref><br />
| birthlocation=Near [[Gladden Fields]]<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Mount Doom]]<br />
| age=c. 589<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| family=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=Thin, lank<ref name="Taming">{{TT|Taming}}</ref><br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Gollum''', also known as '''Sméagol''' ([[Old English|OE]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈsmæ͡ɑːɣoɫ]}}), was a creature (originally a [[Stoors|Stoorish]] [[Hobbits|Hobbit]]) who bore [[the One Ring]]. He lived in the [[Misty Mountains]] for most of his life. In {{TA|2941}} he lost the Ring to [[Bilbo Baggins]]. For the rest of his life he sought to recover his "precious" "birthday present". In {{TA|3019}} he followed the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] and met [[Frodo Baggins]]. After leading Frodo into [[Mordor]] and betraying him to [[Shelob]] he finally seized the Ring in [[Cracks of Doom|Sammath Naur]]. In his euphoria he died and destroyed the Ring after falling into the cracks of [[Mount Doom]].<br />
<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Early life===<br />
Sméagol was a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] of [[Stoors|Stoor-kind]] who lived on the banks of the [[Anduin]] in the later [[Third Age]]. These Hobbits had migrated to the [[Gladden Fields]] and became a riverland people under a Matriarch. Sméagol was the Matriarch's grandson and spent the early years of his life living with his extended family during the [[Watchful Peace]], when [[Sauron]] was in the [[East]]. <br />
<br />
He had some amount of education in lore, as during his youth he had learned of the events concerning the [[War of the Last Alliance]] against [[Sauron]].<ref name=Passage>{{TT|IV2}}</ref><br />
<br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Sméagol.jpg|left|thumb|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]] - Sméagol]]<br />
Around the year {{TA|2463}}, on his birthday, with his close relative [[Déagol]] they went fishing in the [[Gladden Fields]]. It was there that Déagol found a gold ring, after being pulled into the water by a large fish. Sméagol demanded the ring as a birthday present and strangled Deágol when he refused. Sméagol became the fourth [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]] after Sauron, [[Isildur]], and [[Déagol]].<br />
<br />
After this event, he started to make a gurgling sound from his throat; for this his family called him "Gollum". Sméagol was quickly corrupted further by the ring and, banished by his people, was forced to find a home in a [[Gollum's Lake|cave]] in the [[Misty Mountains]]. The Ring's malignant influence twisted his Hobbit body and mind and prolonged his life far beyond its natural limits. He called it his "[[Precious]]" or his "Birthday Present," the latter as a justification for killing Déagol.<br />
<br />
Gollum lived longer than any other Hobbit could, and for over four hundred years he managed to live on raw [[fish]], which he caught from his small raft, and [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains|Goblins]] from the nearby [[Goblin-town]]. In later years he found Hobbit and [[Elves|Elven]] food repulsive. The Ring's corrupting influence as well as centuries of isolation in the Misty Mountains took a deep toll on him both physically and mentally. He became disfigured and grotesque in appearance, and by the time he met the Hobbit [[Bilbo Baggins]] he was afflicted with almost complete madness.<br />
<br />
===Departure of the Ring===<br />
[[File:Darrell Sweet - The Riddle Game.jpg|thumb|right|[[Darrell Sweet]] - ''The Riddle Game'']]<br />
In July {{TA|2941}}, during the [[Quest of Erebor]], Bilbo stumbled upon the subterranean lake on which Gollum lived and found the Ring. Gollum had lost the Ring in the network of caves leading to the lake, though in fact it is more proper to say that the Ring abandoned Gollum, for it was known to have a will of its own. As [[Gandalf]] said later, it looked after itself, trying to get back to Sauron. <br />
<br />
After the famous [[Riddle-game|Riddle Game]], during which Gollum was unaware of his loss, Gollum refused to show Bilbo the promised way out and plotted to murder him. When he went to get his "birthday present," however, he found that it was gone. He suddenly realised the answer to Bilbo's last riddle - ''"What have I got in my pocket?"'' - and flew into a rage. Bilbo inadvertently stumbled across the Ring's power of invisibility as he ran, allowing him to follow Gollum to the entrance of the cave. There, Bilbo at first thought to kill Gollum, but was overcome with pity, so he jumped over him to escape. As Bilbo ran, Gollum cried out, "Thief! Thief, Baggins! We hates it forever!"<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gollum is Defeated.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Gollum is Defeated'']]<br />
His addiction to the Ring was so great that he overcame his hatred and fear of the [[Sun]], the [[Moon]] and other creatures. He left the Mountains and pursued Bilbo, but the trail was cold. He made his way into [[Mordor]], where he was captured by the Nazgûl and forced to reveal what he knew about the Ring. Thus Sauron's spies learned from him the names "[[The Shire|Shire]]" and "[[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]]". By {{TA|3017}} Gollum was then set free, but caught by [[Aragorn]], who turned him over to [[Gandalf]]. <br />
<br />
The [[Wizards|Wizard]] managed to interrogate him and learned parts of the history of the Ring which he had not previously known. He placed him in the care of the [[Silvan Elves]] living in [[Thranduil]]'s [[Woodland Realm]] of [[Mirkwood]]. In June of {{TA|3018}}, Orcs raided the [[Elves of Mirkwood]] (in an obviously coordinated attack) allowing Gollum to escape. He resumed his search of the Ring and he was brought into [[Moria]] but could not open the [[Doors of Durin]].<br />
<br />
===The War of the Ring===<br />
[[File:Inger Edelfeldt - Gollum Held Captive by the Elves.jpg|thumb|right|Inger Edelfeldt - ''Gollum Held Captive by the Elves'']]<br />
Gollum picked up the trail of the new [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]], [[Frodo Baggins]], as he and the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] traveled through Moria. On [[15 January|January 15]], {{TA|3019}} the Fellowship was divided when Gandalf disappeared while fighting a [[Durin's Bane|Balrog]]. Gollum continued trailing the remaining members. It is unknown how he crossed the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]], but he came with them to [[Lothlórien]] without their knowing. Gollum, floating on a log, followed their boats down [[Anduin]] to [[Rauros]]. <br />
<br />
He pursued [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] across the [[Emyn Muil]] when they struck out on their own towards Mordor. Gollum followed them, but after a confrontation in which he bit and nearly strangled Sam, Frodo subdued him. Frodo tied an [[Elves|Elvish]] rope around Gollum's ankle for a leash, but the mere touch of the rope pained him. Taking pity on the wretched creature, Frodo made Gollum swear to help them. Agreeing to the oath, Gollum swore by the "Precious" itself, and Frodo released him. The unlikely company, guided by Gollum, made their way to the [[Black Gate]], the entrance to Mordor.<br />
<br />
Frodo's kindness brought out the "Sméagol" personality, and he made at least some effort to keep his promise. The two had a strange sort of bond from both having been Ringbearers; in Gollum, Frodo saw his possible future, and so wanted to save him so he could save himself. Gollum also feared Frodo, and also thought that helping him would deprive Sauron from the Ring.<br />
<br />
When the Black Gate was reached and found to be well guarded, Gollum convinced them not to go that way, saying that they would be caught and Sauron would regain the Ring. Gollum said he would lead them south, where he knew of another entrance into Mordor.<br />
<br />
Frodo and Sam were caught by [[Faramir]], and Gollum followed them. When Frodo allowed Faramir to briefly take Sméagol prisoner, however, he felt betrayed, allowing the "Gollum" personality to take control. Faramir found out that the place Gollum was taking them was called [[Cirith Ungol]]. He then warned Frodo and Sam of the evil of that place.<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gollum at the Forbidden Pool.jpg|thumb|Ted Nasmith - ''Gollum at the Forbidden Pool'']]<br />
Frodo, Sam, and Gollum left Faramir and began crossing the pass of Cirith Ungol in the border-mountains of the [[Ephel Dúath]]. Gollum visited the great spider [[Shelob]], because he was planning to betray the Hobbits to her and then get the Ring for himself. When he returned the Hobbits were asleep. The sight of Frodo sleeping nearly moved Gollum to repent. However, Sam woke up and spoke harshly to Gollum, and all hope of redemption was lost. Gollum followed through with his plan and led Frodo and Sam into [[Shelob's Lair]]. For this service to Shelob, the Orcs of Cirith Ungol knew Gollum as "Her Sneak".<br />
Just as Frodo warned him, Gollum's betrayal of his oath ultimately led to his undoing, for Frodo and Sam escaped from Shelob's lair and came against all odds to the volcano [[Orodruin]], or Mount Doom. Gollum followed them all the way, seeking a chance to surprise them and take the Ring. When Frodo and Sam had almost reached their destination, he attacked, but failed to get the Ring. Sam, who had hated Gollum on sight, tried to bring himself to kill him, but relented out of sheer pity and disgust, turning his back on the beaten creature.<br />
<br />
Moments later, Frodo was standing on the edge of the [[Cracks of Doom|Crack of Doom]], but, unwilling to destroy the Ring, claimed it for himself and put it on. Then Gollum attacked again. The two fought whilst Frodo was invisible and finally Gollum bit off Frodo's finger.<br />
<br />
Here Frodo's kindness in sparing Gollum's life was rewarded, for Gollum then teetered on the edge of the great pit, lost his balance and fell in, taking the Ring and finger with him with a last cry of "Preciouss!". Had Gollum not lived to play this final part, there would have been a good chance that Sauron would have regained the Ring, as he knew where Frodo was as soon as he put the Ring on.<br />
<br />
==Appearance==<br />
[[File:Peter Xavier Price - The Stairs of Cirith Ungol.jpg|left|thumb|185px|[[Peter Xavier Price]] - ''The Stairs of Cirith Ungol'']]<br />
Sméagol was a Hobbit, but he spent long centuries (thanks to the Ring) in darkness and damp, influenced by its evil power. It is possible that thanks to his hardy Hobbitish nature that he was not reduced to a [[Wraiths|wraith]].<ref><br />
{{webcite|author=Stan Brown|website=FAQ of the Rings|articleurl=http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-GollumWraith|articlename=Why hadn’t Gollum turned into a wraith long ago?}}</ref> However, he was reduced to a small, extremely thin and wiry person, with scrawny neck, pale skin, flat feet, long thin hands with clammy fingers, and large pale eyes that seemed to glow. His sense of sight, as well as his hearing and smelling, were very good, due to the time he spent underground.<br />
<br />
He could move and climb silently like a spider, and although he had only six teeth left,<ref>{{HM|H}}</ref> he could give deep bites, even able to bite off Frodo's finger.<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
Sméagol was the most inquisitive and curious-minded of his community. He was an inquisitive Hobbit who was interested in roots and beginnings. He owed [[#Etymology|his name]] to his interest in roots and deep pools; he burrowed and tunnelled under trees, plants, and mounds. <br />
<br />
During his centuries of loneliness and under the Ring's influence, he developed a sort of multiple personality: his evil personality was a slave to the Ring and would kill for it, overwhelming his former self, who still vaguely remembered things like friendship and love. Not having anyone else to speak to, he often quarrelled with himself. Gollum both loved and hated the Ring and himself. He often referred both to the Ring and himself as "my Preciiouss", perhaps confusing the two entities.<ref name=guide/> <br />
[[File:Mariët Theune - The Crack of Doom.jpg|thumb|right|Mariët Theune - ''The Crack of Doom'']]<br />
Years later, [[Samwise Gamgee]] would name the good personality "Slinker" (for his fawning, eager-to-please demeanour), and the bad personality "Stinker".<br />
<br />
Other aspects of the Ring's corruption was the aversion to all living creatures, especially the [[Elves]] and all things Elven. The [[Elven rope]] burnt his skin, and [[lembas]] tasted like dust to him and choked him.<br />
<br />
Sméagol, as a Hobbit, was perhaps good at heart, and his killing was entirely the Ring's doing. But it's also likely that Sméagol was harboring dark thoughts to begin with. Their argument bases on several points, including...<br />
# The sight of the Ring at the [[Council of Elrond]] or at many points in the journey of the Fellowship did not cause anyone to suddenly murder someone else.<br />
# It is possible for Hobbits to be evil; for instance, [[Ted Sandyman]] and [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]].<br />
#Bilbo was corrupted far more slowly by the Ring because his adventures with it began with an act of mercy, while Gollum began his with murder.<ref name=shadow>{{FR|Shadow}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
[[File:Turner Mohan - The Ringbearers.jpg|thumb|left|Turner Mohan - ''The Ringbearers'']]<br />
Sméagol's (pron. {{IPA|[ˈsmæ͡ɑːɣoɫ]}}) name is [[Old English]] one, from ''sméah'', and adjective meaning "''creeping in, penetrating''". It is etymologically related to the word [[smials]]. This title was also applied by the Anglo-Saxons to the Biblical Cain, from the story of Cain's murder of his brother Abel in Genesis. This draws a clear connection between the two.<br />
<br />
Sméagol is the translation of an actual [[Westron]] name ''[[Trahald]]''. The meaning of which was "burrowing, worming in" or "apt to creep into a hole". In both [[Westron]] and Old English, Sméagol's name is related to [[Smaug]]'s: Smaug's name in "true [[Dalish]]" was ''[[Trāgu]]'', and the ''Trah-'' stem in Trahald and Trâgu is thus an analogue of the Germanic stem present in both Sméagol and Smaug.<br />
<br />
[[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] explained in his "[[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings]]" the origin of the name ''Sméagol'' in the lemma on [[smials]]:<br />
{{quote|'''Smials'''. A word peculiar to hobbits (not Common Speech), meaning 'burrow'; leave unchanged. It is a form that the Old English word '''smygel''' 'burrow' might have had, if it had survived. The same element appears in Gollum's real name, '''Sméagol'''.}}<br />
<br />
The name [[Smaug]] which means "squeezed through a hole" is thus related.<ref>{{HM|L}}, [[Letter 31]]</ref><br />
<br />
===Pronunciation===<br />
{{Pronounce|Anglo-Saxon - Sméagol.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
In both the 1981 BBC radio adaptation and in Peter Jackson's films ''Sméagol'' is pronounced as "SMEE-gol", although the placement of the acute accent suggests that the correct pronunciation is "SMAY-uh-gol". On the other hand, in [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s recordings of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' he also pronounced it "SMEE-gol" or "SMEE-AH-GOL", suggesting that ''éa'' should either be pronounced as a long "i"-sound or as a diphthong ''ea'', and not as two distinct vowels "e" and "a". Tolkien had a habit in his writing to put diacritics in varying places, as can also be seen in the name ''[[Eärendil]]'', which also occurs spelt ''Ëarendil''.<br />
<br />
==Other versions of the Legendarium==<br />
In the first edition of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', Gollum did not appear quite as wretched or as bound to the Ring. Tolkien revised this characterisation to fit the concept of the Ruling Ring developed during the writing of ''The Lord of the Rings''. Tolkien then explained the version given in the first edition as a lie that Bilbo made up to tell the [[Thorin and Company|Dwarves]] and [[Gandalf]].<ref name="Christensen">[[Bonniejean Christensen]], [[Jared Lobdell]] (ed.), "Gollum's Character Transformation in ''The Hobbit''", published in ''[[A Tolkien Compass]]'', pages 7-26</ref><br />
<br />
In ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', it is mentioned that [[the One Ring]] was found "ere the Kings failed in Gondor". This can mean that originally, Gollum's age was intended to be considerably more than six hundred years (further reinforced by certain places in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' like Gollum referring to tales about an uncorrupted [[Minas Ithil]] or Gandalf comparing his people to "fathers of the fathers of the [[Stoors]]"). In fact it seems likely that Sauron leaving the Mirkwood in 2063 T.A. and some Hobbits settling there after that are details added for the purpose of making the smaller age possible; perhaps in order to make it possible for Gollum and the other characters to have the same language.<br />
<br />
==Inspiration==<br />
[[John Garth]] has suggested that the character of Gollum carries echoes of the "night-haunting, man-eating" [[Ogres|ogre]] [[Wikipedia:Grendel|Grendel]] in ''[[Beowulf (disambiguation)|Beowulf]]''.<ref>{{webcite|author=[[John Garth]]|articleurl=http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2014/05/j-r-r-tolkien-beowulf-one-mans-passion-threshold-between-myth-and-reality|articlename=J R R Tolkien's Beowulf: one man's passion for the threshold between myth and reality|dated=29 May 2014|website=[http://www.newstatesman.com/ newstatesman.com]|accessed=29 May 2014}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
{{Gallery<br />
|title=Pictures of adaptations of Gollum<br />
|height=150<br />
|width=200<br />
|lines=3<br />
|File:The Hobbit (1966 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (1966 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1966 film)]]<br />
|File:The Hobbit (1977 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]<br />
|File:David T. Wenzel - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (comic book)|''The Hobbit'' (comic book), 1989]]<br />
|File:The Hobbit (2003) Gollum.JPG|[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings- The Treason of Isengard - Concept art Gollum.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Treason of Isengard]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Gollum poster.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Sméagol2.jpg|As Sméagol in [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
|File:Gollum1 viv lotr.JPG|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Gollum.jpg|''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br />
|File:Lego - Gollum poster.png|Gollum as a ''[[Lego]] mini figure''<br />
|File:Guardians of Middle-earth - Gollum.png|''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''<br />
}}<br />
===Films===<br />
'''1977: [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is a frog-like green creature, voiced by [[Brother Theodore]]. Here, his "Gollum" noise sounds like muttering instead of swallowing.<br />
<br />
'''1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is depicted as a skinny, dark grey creature, voiced by [[Peter Woodthorpe]]. <br />
<br />
'''1980: [[The Return of the King (1980 film)|''The Return of the King'' (1980 film)]]:'''<br />
:Brother Theodore reprised his role from the earlier [[Rankin/Bass]] production. Some footage from ''The Hobbit'' was reused to introduce the viewer to the story. <br />
<br />
'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is a CGI-motion capture creature voiced by actor [[Andy Serkis]]. He is barely glimpsed in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', where he is voiced by [[Dominic Monaghan]] in absence of Serkis. Gollum becomes a central character in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]]''. The groundbreaking CGI character was built around Serkis's voice, movements and expressions, sometimes by using a motion capture suit which recorded his movements and applied them to the digital character, and sometimes by the more laborious process of digitally "painting out" Serkis's image and replacing it with Gollum's. In one such shot in ''The Two Towers'', Serkis' real spittle can be seen emerging from Gollum's mouth.<br />
<br />
:In ''The Return of the King'' Serkis himself appears in a flashback scene as Sméagol before his degeneration into Gollum. This scene was originally earmarked for ''The Two Towers'' but held back because it was felt that audiences would relate better to the original Sméagol once they were more familiar with who he became. The decision to include this scene meant that Gollum's face had to be redesigned for the second and third movies so that it would more closely resemble Serkis'.<br />
<br />
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Andy Serkis]] reprised his role as Gollum.<ref name="PJCasting1">{{webcite|author=[[Peter Jackson]]|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150168211921558|articlename=Production begins in New Zealand on The Hobbit|dated=20-March-2011|website=[http://www.facebook.com/ Facebook]|accessed=21-Dec-2011}}</ref>He appears only in the film [[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey|An Unexpected Journey]], while his role is similar to the chapter [[Riddles in the Dark]].<br />
<br />
===Radio series===<br />
'''1955: [[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1955 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The voice of Gollum is provided by [[Gerik Schjelderup]].<ref name="RT1723">Radio Times, Volume 133, No. 1723, [[16 November|November 16]], [[1956]]</ref><br />
<br />
'''1968: [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The narrator refers to Gollum (voiced by [[Wolfe Morris]]) as "Galloom", even though Gollum himself manages to pronounce his name correctly. Gollum's role is based on that of the second edition of ''The Hobbit''.<ref>[[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]], "[[Riddles in the Dark (episode)|Riddles in the Dark]]" <br />
</ref><br />
<br />
'''1979: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Gail Chugg]] provided the voice of Gollum.<br />
<br />
'''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum, again performed by [[Peter Woodthorpe]], has the first lines of the play (save [[Gerard Murphy|the narrator]]). He is described as "slimy and as dark than darkness".<ref>''[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)]], "[[The Long Awaited Party]]"</ref><br />
<br />
===Games===<br />
'''1982: ''[[The Hobbit (1982 video game)]]'''''<br />
:Gollum appears in the tunnels of the Misty Mountains. He will persistently speak riddles to Bilbo, and strangle him to death if he fails to answer them in time. However, if Bilbo puts the [[One Ring|Ring]] on, then Gollum will not be able to see him. He can also be killed by Bilbo or his companions, even though doing so would seriously conflict with established canon.<br />
'''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum, voiced by [[Quinton Flynn]], is seen thrice: first, in the introduction scene, he is stooping over his precious, dashing away from the camera. He is a creature in colour and clothing much like Jackson's version. He is briefly glimpsed again in [[Moria]], but not more than a dark shape with a green outline can be seen.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]], "3 Passages"</ref> His most important role is in the final stages of the game: he can be seen atop several ridges, and can even be visited on a rock on the shores of [[Nen Hithoel]]. He throws a [[fish]], the "Xiphiidae", at "[[Aragorn|Ranger]]". This will become the most deadly weapon in the game, and replaces [[Andúril]] in the weapon slots.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]], "Amon Hen"</ref> <br />
<br />
'''2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is accompanying Sam and Frodo during [[Osgiliath]] mission and the is the final boss of the game at the Crack of Doom. Unlike all other enemies of the game, he takes no damage from any attacks - instead the players must perform combinations to push him into lava below.<br />
<br />
'''2003: ''[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|Sierra's The Hobbit'']]:'''<br />
:Gollum appears in a cut scene after the level "Riddles in the Dark". Only Bilbo's last riddle - "What have I got in my pocket?" - is shown, after which Gollum spouts out all possible answers in one sentence rather than in three turns. Gollum is a dark grey, hobbit-like creature with seven spiky teeth, who walks on all fours like an ape would, and like his Rankin/Bass counterpart, his "Gollum" noise is a muttering instead of a swallowing. He is voiced by [[Daran Norris]].<ref>[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]], "Riddles in the Dark"</ref><br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a "Hero" unit for the Servants of the Enemy, used primarily for scout missions.<br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a "Hero" for the Mordor factions. His health is extremely low and his attacks extremely weak, but has value for the scout missions.<br />
<br />
'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br />
:In non-storyline battles, stealthed Gollum is roaming the map. If detected and killed, he drops The One Ring, which can give huge advantage to the side that gets it.<br />
<br />
'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is encountered thrice, though the player has yet to know his name. The first time he is met in southern [[Trollshaws]], where the player prevents him from attacking the baby of two Fishermen; the second time he is seen in southern Mirkwood, where the player must defeat the Orcs who attempts to capture him, the third time is on the Shores of Anduin, where the player has to make sure he does not fall prey to the spiders.<br />
<br />
'''2012: ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a striker-type "guardian" with four abilities: ''Throttle'', ''My Precious'', ''Coward'' and ''We are starved''.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.co.uk/guardians/gollum|articlename=''Guardians of Middle-earth'': Gollum|dated=|website=[http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.com/ ''Guardians of Middle-earth'' official website]|accessed=16 July 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
'''2014: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is featured in the game.He is one of the supporting chaacters of the game.In the game, set between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, Gollum is searching for the One Ring and encounters Talion, the protagonist of the game and helps him in his Quest.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:Images of Gollum|Images of Gollum]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
<br />
*[http://lingwe.blogspot.se/2012/12/smeagol-whats-in-name.html Sméagol — what’s in a name?] by [[Jason Fisher]]<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=hobbit<br />
| born=c. {{TA|2430}}<br />
| died=[[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Déagol]]<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=c. {{TA|2463}} - {{TA|2941|n}}<br />
| next=[[Bilbo Baggins]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Frodo Baggins]]<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=briefly, [[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
| nvac=None<br />
| next=Ring destroyed<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
[[Category:Evil]]<br />
[[Category:Hobbits]]<br />
[[Category:Ring-bearers]]<br />
[[Category:Stoors]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Gollum]]<br />
[[fa:گالوم]]<br />
[[fi:Klonkku]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gollum&diff=291550Gollum2017-01-19T01:12:37Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Films */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Countdown}}<br />
{{hobbit infobox<br />
| name=Gollum<br />
| image=[[File:John Howe - Gollum.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Gollum" by [[John Howe]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=Sméagol<br/>Stinker<br/>Slinker<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=c. {{TA|2430}}<ref name=guide>{{HM|Guide}}, p. 167, entry "Gollum"</ref><br />
| birthlocation=Near [[Gladden Fields]]<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Mount Doom]]<br />
| age=c. 589<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| family=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=Thin, lank<ref name="Taming">{{TT|Taming}}</ref><br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Gollum''', also known as '''Sméagol''' ([[Old English|OE]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈsmæ͡ɑːɣoɫ]}}), was a creature (originally a [[Stoors|Stoorish]] [[Hobbits|Hobbit]]) who bore [[the One Ring]]. He lived in the [[Misty Mountains]] for most of his life. In {{TA|2941}} he lost the Ring to [[Bilbo Baggins]]. For the rest of his life he sought to recover his "precious" "birthday present". In {{TA|3019}} he followed the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] and met [[Frodo Baggins]]. After leading Frodo into [[Mordor]] and betraying him to [[Shelob]] he finally seized the Ring in [[Cracks of Doom|Sammath Naur]]. In his euphoria he died and destroyed the Ring after falling into the cracks of [[Mount Doom]].<br />
<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Early life===<br />
Sméagol was a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] of [[Stoors|Stoor-kind]] who lived on the banks of the [[Anduin]] in the later [[Third Age]]. These Hobbits had migrated to the [[Gladden Fields]] and became a riverland people under a Matriarch. Sméagol was the Matriarch's grandson and spent the early years of his life living with his extended family during the [[Watchful Peace]], when [[Sauron]] was in the [[East]]. <br />
<br />
He had some amount of education in lore, as during his youth he had learned of the events concerning the [[War of the Last Alliance]] against [[Sauron]].<ref name=Passage>{{TT|IV2}}</ref><br />
<br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Sméagol.jpg|left|thumb|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]] - Sméagol]]<br />
Around the year {{TA|2463}}, on his birthday, with his close relative [[Déagol]] they went fishing in the [[Gladden Fields]]. It was there that Déagol found a gold ring, after being pulled into the water by a large fish. Sméagol demanded the ring as a birthday present and strangled Deágol when he refused. Sméagol became the fourth [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]] after Sauron, [[Isildur]], and [[Déagol]].<br />
<br />
After this event, he started to make a gurgling sound from his throat; for this his family called him "Gollum". Sméagol was quickly corrupted further by the ring and, banished by his people, was forced to find a home in a [[Gollum's Lake|cave]] in the [[Misty Mountains]]. The Ring's malignant influence twisted his Hobbit body and mind and prolonged his life far beyond its natural limits. He called it his "[[Precious]]" or his "Birthday Present," the latter as a justification for killing Déagol.<br />
<br />
Gollum lived longer than any other Hobbit could, and for over four hundred years he managed to live on raw [[fish]], which he caught from his small raft, and [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains|Goblins]] from the nearby [[Goblin-town]]. In later years he found Hobbit and [[Elves|Elven]] food repulsive. The Ring's corrupting influence as well as centuries of isolation in the Misty Mountains took a deep toll on him both physically and mentally. He became disfigured and grotesque in appearance, and by the time he met the Hobbit [[Bilbo Baggins]] he was afflicted with almost complete madness.<br />
<br />
===Departure of the Ring===<br />
[[File:Darrell Sweet - The Riddle Game.jpg|thumb|right|[[Darrell Sweet]] - ''The Riddle Game'']]<br />
In July {{TA|2941}}, during the [[Quest of Erebor]], Bilbo stumbled upon the subterranean lake on which Gollum lived and found the Ring. Gollum had lost the Ring in the network of caves leading to the lake, though in fact it is more proper to say that the Ring abandoned Gollum, for it was known to have a will of its own. As [[Gandalf]] said later, it looked after itself, trying to get back to Sauron. <br />
<br />
After the famous [[Riddle-game|Riddle Game]], during which Gollum was unaware of his loss, Gollum refused to show Bilbo the promised way out and plotted to murder him. When he went to get his "birthday present," however, he found that it was gone. He suddenly realised the answer to Bilbo's last riddle - ''"What have I got in my pocket?"'' - and flew into a rage. Bilbo inadvertently stumbled across the Ring's power of invisibility as he ran, allowing him to follow Gollum to the entrance of the cave. There, Bilbo at first thought to kill Gollum, but was overcome with pity, so he jumped over him to escape. As Bilbo ran, Gollum cried out, "Thief! Thief, Baggins! We hates it forever!"<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gollum is Defeated.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Gollum is Defeated'']]<br />
His addiction to the Ring was so great that he overcame his hatred and fear of the [[Sun]], the [[Moon]] and other creatures. He left the Mountains and pursued Bilbo, but the trail was cold. He made his way into [[Mordor]], where he was captured by the Nazgûl and forced to reveal what he knew about the Ring. Thus Sauron's spies learned from him the names "[[The Shire|Shire]]" and "[[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]]". By {{TA|3017}} Gollum was then set free, but caught by [[Aragorn]], who turned him over to [[Gandalf]]. <br />
<br />
The [[Wizards|Wizard]] managed to interrogate him and learned parts of the history of the Ring which he had not previously known. He placed him in the care of the [[Silvan Elves]] living in [[Thranduil]]'s [[Woodland Realm]] of [[Mirkwood]]. In June of {{TA|3018}}, Orcs raided the [[Elves of Mirkwood]] (in an obviously coordinated attack) allowing Gollum to escape. He resumed his search of the Ring and he was brought into [[Moria]] but could not open the [[Doors of Durin]].<br />
<br />
===The War of the Ring===<br />
[[File:Inger Edelfeldt - Gollum Held Captive by the Elves.jpg|thumb|right|Inger Edelfeldt - ''Gollum Held Captive by the Elves'']]<br />
Gollum picked up the trail of the new [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]], [[Frodo Baggins]], as he and the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] traveled through Moria. On [[15 January|January 15]], {{TA|3019}} the Fellowship was divided when Gandalf disappeared while fighting a [[Durin's Bane|Balrog]]. Gollum continued trailing the remaining members. It is unknown how he crossed the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]], but he came with them to [[Lothlórien]] without their knowing. Gollum, floating on a log, followed their boats down [[Anduin]] to [[Rauros]]. <br />
<br />
He pursued [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] across the [[Emyn Muil]] when they struck out on their own towards Mordor. Gollum followed them, but after a confrontation in which he bit and nearly strangled Sam, Frodo subdued him. Frodo tied an [[Elves|Elvish]] rope around Gollum's ankle for a leash, but the mere touch of the rope pained him. Taking pity on the wretched creature, Frodo made Gollum swear to help them. Agreeing to the oath, Gollum swore by the "Precious" itself, and Frodo released him. The unlikely company, guided by Gollum, made their way to the [[Black Gate]], the entrance to Mordor.<br />
<br />
Frodo's kindness brought out the "Sméagol" personality, and he made at least some effort to keep his promise. The two had a strange sort of bond from both having been Ringbearers; in Gollum, Frodo saw his possible future, and so wanted to save him so he could save himself. Gollum also feared Frodo, and also thought that helping him would deprive Sauron from the Ring.<br />
<br />
When the Black Gate was reached and found to be well guarded, Gollum convinced them not to go that way, saying that they would be caught and Sauron would regain the Ring. Gollum said he would lead them south, where he knew of another entrance into Mordor.<br />
<br />
Frodo and Sam were caught by [[Faramir]], and Gollum followed them. When Frodo allowed Faramir to briefly take Sméagol prisoner, however, he felt betrayed, allowing the "Gollum" personality to take control. Faramir found out that the place Gollum was taking them was called [[Cirith Ungol]]. He then warned Frodo and Sam of the evil of that place.<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gollum at the Forbidden Pool.jpg|thumb|Ted Nasmith - ''Gollum at the Forbidden Pool'']]<br />
Frodo, Sam, and Gollum left Faramir and began crossing the pass of Cirith Ungol in the border-mountains of the [[Ephel Dúath]]. Gollum visited the great spider [[Shelob]], because he was planning to betray the Hobbits to her and then get the Ring for himself. When he returned the Hobbits were asleep. The sight of Frodo sleeping nearly moved Gollum to repent. However, Sam woke up and spoke harshly to Gollum, and all hope of redemption was lost. Gollum followed through with his plan and led Frodo and Sam into [[Shelob's Lair]]. For this service to Shelob, the Orcs of Cirith Ungol knew Gollum as "Her Sneak".<br />
Just as Frodo warned him, Gollum's betrayal of his oath ultimately led to his undoing, for Frodo and Sam escaped from Shelob's lair and came against all odds to the volcano [[Orodruin]], or Mount Doom. Gollum followed them all the way, seeking a chance to surprise them and take the Ring. When Frodo and Sam had almost reached their destination, he attacked, but failed to get the Ring. Sam, who had hated Gollum on sight, tried to bring himself to kill him, but relented out of sheer pity and disgust, turning his back on the beaten creature.<br />
<br />
Moments later, Frodo was standing on the edge of the [[Cracks of Doom|Crack of Doom]], but, unwilling to destroy the Ring, claimed it for himself and put it on. Then Gollum attacked again. The two fought whilst Frodo was invisible and finally Gollum bit off Frodo's finger.<br />
<br />
Here Frodo's kindness in sparing Gollum's life was rewarded, for Gollum then teetered on the edge of the great pit, lost his balance and fell in, taking the Ring and finger with him with a last cry of "Preciouss!". Had Gollum not lived to play this final part, there would have been a good chance that Sauron would have regained the Ring, as he knew where Frodo was as soon as he put the Ring on.<br />
<br />
==Appearance==<br />
[[File:Peter Xavier Price - The Stairs of Cirith Ungol.jpg|left|thumb|185px|[[Peter Xavier Price]] - ''The Stairs of Cirith Ungol'']]<br />
Sméagol was a Hobbit, but he spent long centuries (thanks to the Ring) in darkness and damp, influenced by its evil power. It is possible that thanks to his hardy Hobbitish nature that he was not reduced to a [[Wraiths|wraith]].<ref><br />
{{webcite|author=Stan Brown|website=FAQ of the Rings|articleurl=http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-GollumWraith|articlename=Why hadn’t Gollum turned into a wraith long ago?}}</ref> However, he was reduced to a small, extremely thin and wiry person, with scrawny neck, pale skin, flat feet, long thin hands with clammy fingers, and large pale eyes that seemed to glow. His sense of sight, as well as his hearing and smelling, were very good, due to the time he spent underground.<br />
<br />
He could move and climb silently like a spider, and although he had only six teeth left,<ref>{{HM|H}}</ref> he could give deep bites, even able to bite off Frodo's finger.<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
Sméagol was the most inquisitive and curious-minded of his community. He was an inquisitive Hobbit who was interested in roots and beginnings. He owed [[#Etymology|his name]] to his interest in roots and deep pools; he burrowed and tunnelled under trees, plants, and mounds. <br />
<br />
During his centuries of loneliness and under the Ring's influence, he developed a sort of multiple personality: his evil personality was a slave to the Ring and would kill for it, overwhelming his former self, who still vaguely remembered things like friendship and love. Not having anyone else to speak to, he often quarrelled with himself. Gollum both loved and hated the Ring and himself. He often referred both to the Ring and himself as "my Preciiouss", perhaps confusing the two entities.<ref name=guide/> <br />
[[File:Mariët Theune - The Crack of Doom.jpg|thumb|right|Mariët Theune - ''The Crack of Doom'']]<br />
Years later, [[Samwise Gamgee]] would name the good personality "Slinker" (for his fawning, eager-to-please demeanour), and the bad personality "Stinker".<br />
<br />
Other aspects of the Ring's corruption was the aversion to all living creatures, especially the [[Elves]] and all things Elven. The [[Elven rope]] burnt his skin, and [[lembas]] tasted like dust to him and choked him.<br />
<br />
Sméagol, as a Hobbit, was perhaps good at heart, and his killing was entirely the Ring's doing. But it's also likely that Sméagol was harboring dark thoughts to begin with. Their argument bases on several points, including...<br />
# The sight of the Ring at the [[Council of Elrond]] or at many points in the journey of the Fellowship did not cause anyone to suddenly murder someone else.<br />
# It is possible for Hobbits to be evil; for instance, [[Ted Sandyman]] and [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]].<br />
#Bilbo was corrupted far more slowly by the Ring because his adventures with it began with an act of mercy, while Gollum began his with murder.<ref name=shadow>{{FR|Shadow}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
[[File:Turner Mohan - The Ringbearers.jpg|thumb|left|Turner Mohan - ''The Ringbearers'']]<br />
Sméagol's (pron. {{IPA|[ˈsmæ͡ɑːɣoɫ]}}) name is [[Old English]] one, from ''sméah'', and adjective meaning "''creeping in, penetrating''". It is etymologically related to the word [[smials]]. This title was also applied by the Anglo-Saxons to the Biblical Cain, from the story of Cain's murder of his brother Abel in Genesis. This draws a clear connection between the two.<br />
<br />
Sméagol is the translation of an actual [[Westron]] name ''[[Trahald]]''. The meaning of which was "burrowing, worming in" or "apt to creep into a hole". In both [[Westron]] and Old English, Sméagol's name is related to [[Smaug]]'s: Smaug's name in "true [[Dalish]]" was ''[[Trāgu]]'', and the ''Trah-'' stem in Trahald and Trâgu is thus an analogue of the Germanic stem present in both Sméagol and Smaug.<br />
<br />
[[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] explained in his "[[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings]]" the origin of the name ''Sméagol'' in the lemma on [[smials]]:<br />
{{quote|'''Smials'''. A word peculiar to hobbits (not Common Speech), meaning 'burrow'; leave unchanged. It is a form that the Old English word '''smygel''' 'burrow' might have had, if it had survived. The same element appears in Gollum's real name, '''Sméagol'''.}}<br />
<br />
The name [[Smaug]] which means "squeezed through a hole" is thus related.<ref>{{HM|L}}, [[Letter 31]]</ref><br />
<br />
===Pronunciation===<br />
{{Pronounce|Anglo-Saxon - Sméagol.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
In both the 1981 BBC radio adaptation and in Peter Jackson's films ''Sméagol'' is pronounced as "SMEE-gol", although the placement of the acute accent suggests that the correct pronunciation is "SMAY-uh-gol". On the other hand, in [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s recordings of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' he also pronounced it "SMEE-gol" or "SMEE-AH-GOL", suggesting that ''éa'' should either be pronounced as a long "i"-sound or as a diphthong ''ea'', and not as two distinct vowels "e" and "a". Tolkien had a habit in his writing to put diacritics in varying places, as can also be seen in the name ''[[Eärendil]]'', which also occurs spelt ''Ëarendil''.<br />
<br />
==Other versions of the Legendarium==<br />
In the first edition of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', Gollum did not appear quite as wretched or as bound to the Ring. Tolkien revised this characterisation to fit the concept of the Ruling Ring developed during the writing of ''The Lord of the Rings''. Tolkien then explained the version given in the first edition as a lie that Bilbo made up to tell the [[Thorin and Company|Dwarves]] and [[Gandalf]].<ref name="Christensen">[[Bonniejean Christensen]], [[Jared Lobdell]] (ed.), "Gollum's Character Transformation in ''The Hobbit''", published in ''[[A Tolkien Compass]]'', pages 7-26</ref><br />
<br />
In ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', it is mentioned that [[the One Ring]] was found "ere the Kings failed in Gondor". This can mean that originally, Gollum's age was intended to be considerably more than six hundred years (further reinforced by certain places in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' like Gollum referring to tales about an uncorrupted [[Minas Ithil]] or Gandalf comparing his people to "fathers of the fathers of the [[Stoors]]"). In fact it seems likely that Sauron leaving the Mirkwood in 2063 T.A. and some Hobbits settling there after that are details added for the purpose of making the smaller age possible; perhaps in order to make it possible for Gollum and the other characters to have the same language.<br />
<br />
==Inspiration==<br />
[[John Garth]] has suggested that the character of Gollum carries echoes of the "night-haunting, man-eating" [[Ogres|ogre]] [[Wikipedia:Grendel|Grendel]] in ''[[Beowulf (disambiguation)|Beowulf]]''.<ref>{{webcite|author=[[John Garth]]|articleurl=http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2014/05/j-r-r-tolkien-beowulf-one-mans-passion-threshold-between-myth-and-reality|articlename=J R R Tolkien's Beowulf: one man's passion for the threshold between myth and reality|dated=29 May 2014|website=[http://www.newstatesman.com/ newstatesman.com]|accessed=29 May 2014}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
{{Gallery<br />
|title=Pictures of adaptations of Gollum<br />
|height=150<br />
|width=200<br />
|lines=3<br />
|File:The Hobbit (1966 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (1966 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1966 film)]]<br />
|File:The Hobbit (1977 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]<br />
|File:David T. Wenzel - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (comic book)|''The Hobbit'' (comic book), 1989]]<br />
|File:The Hobbit (2003) Gollum.JPG|[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings- The Treason of Isengard - Concept art Gollum.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Treason of Isengard]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Gollum poster.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Sméagol2.jpg|As Sméagol in [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
|File:Gollum1 viv lotr.JPG|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Gollum.jpg|''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br />
|File:Lego - Gollum poster.png|Gollum as a ''[[Lego]] mini figure''<br />
|File:Guardians of Middle-earth - Gollum.png|''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''<br />
}}<br />
===Films===<br />
'''1977: [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is a frog-like green creature, voiced by [[Brother Theodore]]. Here, his "Gollum" noise sounds like muttering instead of swallowing.<br />
<br />
'''1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is depicted as a skinny, dark grey creature, voiced by [[Peter Woodthorpe]]. <br />
<br />
'''1980: [[The Return of the King (1980 film)|''The Return of the King'' (1980 film)]]:'''<br />
:Brother Theodore reprised his role from the earlier [[Rankin/Bass]] production. Some footage from ''The Hobbit'' was reused to introduce the viewer to the story. <br />
<br />
'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is a CGI-motion capture creature voiced by actor [[Andy Serkis]]. He is barely glimpsed in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', where he is voiced by [[Dominic Monaghan]] in absence of Serkis. Gollum becomes a central character in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]]''. The groundbreaking CGI character was built around Serkis's voice, movements and expressions, sometimes by using a motion capture suit which recorded his movements and applied them to the digital character, and sometimes by the more laborious process of digitally "painting out" Serkis's image and replacing it with Gollum's. In one such shot in ''The Two Towers'', Serkis' real spittle can be seen emerging from Gollum's mouth.<br />
<br />
:In ''The Return of the King'' Serkis himself appears in a flashback scene as Sméagol before his degeneration into Gollum. This scene was originally earmarked for ''The Two Towers'' but held back because it was felt that audiences would relate better to the original Sméagol once they were more familiar with who he became. The decision to include this scene meant that Gollum's face had to be redesigned for the second and third movies so that it would more closely resemble Serkis'.<br />
<br />
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Andy Serkis]] reprised his role as Gollum.<ref name="PJCasting1">{{webcite|author=[[Peter Jackson]]|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150168211921558|articlename=Production begins in New Zealand on The Hobbit|dated=20-March-2011|website=[http://www.facebook.com/ Facebook]|accessed=21-Dec-2011}}</ref>He appears only in [[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey|the First Hobbit film]] while his role is similar to the chapter [[Riddles in the Dark]].<br />
<br />
===Radio series===<br />
'''1955: [[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1955 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The voice of Gollum is provided by [[Gerik Schjelderup]].<ref name="RT1723">Radio Times, Volume 133, No. 1723, [[16 November|November 16]], [[1956]]</ref><br />
<br />
'''1968: [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The narrator refers to Gollum (voiced by [[Wolfe Morris]]) as "Galloom", even though Gollum himself manages to pronounce his name correctly. Gollum's role is based on that of the second edition of ''The Hobbit''.<ref>[[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]], "[[Riddles in the Dark (episode)|Riddles in the Dark]]" <br />
</ref><br />
<br />
'''1979: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Gail Chugg]] provided the voice of Gollum.<br />
<br />
'''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum, again performed by [[Peter Woodthorpe]], has the first lines of the play (save [[Gerard Murphy|the narrator]]). He is described as "slimy and as dark than darkness".<ref>''[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)]], "[[The Long Awaited Party]]"</ref><br />
<br />
===Games===<br />
'''1982: ''[[The Hobbit (1982 video game)]]'''''<br />
:Gollum appears in the tunnels of the Misty Mountains. He will persistently speak riddles to Bilbo, and strangle him to death if he fails to answer them in time. However, if Bilbo puts the [[One Ring|Ring]] on, then Gollum will not be able to see him. He can also be killed by Bilbo or his companions, even though doing so would seriously conflict with established canon.<br />
'''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum, voiced by [[Quinton Flynn]], is seen thrice: first, in the introduction scene, he is stooping over his precious, dashing away from the camera. He is a creature in colour and clothing much like Jackson's version. He is briefly glimpsed again in [[Moria]], but not more than a dark shape with a green outline can be seen.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]], "3 Passages"</ref> His most important role is in the final stages of the game: he can be seen atop several ridges, and can even be visited on a rock on the shores of [[Nen Hithoel]]. He throws a [[fish]], the "Xiphiidae", at "[[Aragorn|Ranger]]". This will become the most deadly weapon in the game, and replaces [[Andúril]] in the weapon slots.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]], "Amon Hen"</ref> <br />
<br />
'''2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is accompanying Sam and Frodo during [[Osgiliath]] mission and the is the final boss of the game at the Crack of Doom. Unlike all other enemies of the game, he takes no damage from any attacks - instead the players must perform combinations to push him into lava below.<br />
<br />
'''2003: ''[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|Sierra's The Hobbit'']]:'''<br />
:Gollum appears in a cut scene after the level "Riddles in the Dark". Only Bilbo's last riddle - "What have I got in my pocket?" - is shown, after which Gollum spouts out all possible answers in one sentence rather than in three turns. Gollum is a dark grey, hobbit-like creature with seven spiky teeth, who walks on all fours like an ape would, and like his Rankin/Bass counterpart, his "Gollum" noise is a muttering instead of a swallowing. He is voiced by [[Daran Norris]].<ref>[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]], "Riddles in the Dark"</ref><br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a "Hero" unit for the Servants of the Enemy, used primarily for scout missions.<br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a "Hero" for the Mordor factions. His health is extremely low and his attacks extremely weak, but has value for the scout missions.<br />
<br />
'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br />
:In non-storyline battles, stealthed Gollum is roaming the map. If detected and killed, he drops The One Ring, which can give huge advantage to the side that gets it.<br />
<br />
'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is encountered thrice, though the player has yet to know his name. The first time he is met in southern [[Trollshaws]], where the player prevents him from attacking the baby of two Fishermen; the second time he is seen in southern Mirkwood, where the player must defeat the Orcs who attempts to capture him, the third time is on the Shores of Anduin, where the player has to make sure he does not fall prey to the spiders.<br />
<br />
'''2012: ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a striker-type "guardian" with four abilities: ''Throttle'', ''My Precious'', ''Coward'' and ''We are starved''.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.co.uk/guardians/gollum|articlename=''Guardians of Middle-earth'': Gollum|dated=|website=[http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.com/ ''Guardians of Middle-earth'' official website]|accessed=16 July 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
'''2014: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is featured in the game.He is one of the supporting chaacters of the game.In the game, set between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, Gollum is searching for the One Ring and encounters Talion, the protagonist of the game and helps him in his Quest.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:Images of Gollum|Images of Gollum]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
<br />
*[http://lingwe.blogspot.se/2012/12/smeagol-whats-in-name.html Sméagol — what’s in a name?] by [[Jason Fisher]]<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=hobbit<br />
| born=c. {{TA|2430}}<br />
| died=[[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Déagol]]<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=c. {{TA|2463}} - {{TA|2941|n}}<br />
| next=[[Bilbo Baggins]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Frodo Baggins]]<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=briefly, [[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
| nvac=None<br />
| next=Ring destroyed<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
[[Category:Evil]]<br />
[[Category:Hobbits]]<br />
[[Category:Ring-bearers]]<br />
[[Category:Stoors]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Gollum]]<br />
[[fa:گالوم]]<br />
[[fi:Klonkku]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gollum&diff=291549Gollum2017-01-19T01:10:46Z<p>2.86.255.128: Undo revision 291546 by Sage (talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Countdown}}<br />
{{hobbit infobox<br />
| name=Gollum<br />
| image=[[File:John Howe - Gollum.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Gollum" by [[John Howe]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=Sméagol<br/>Stinker<br/>Slinker<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=c. {{TA|2430}}<ref name=guide>{{HM|Guide}}, p. 167, entry "Gollum"</ref><br />
| birthlocation=Near [[Gladden Fields]]<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Mount Doom]]<br />
| age=c. 589<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| family=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=Thin, lank<ref name="Taming">{{TT|Taming}}</ref><br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Gollum''', also known as '''Sméagol''' ([[Old English|OE]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈsmæ͡ɑːɣoɫ]}}), was a creature (originally a [[Stoors|Stoorish]] [[Hobbits|Hobbit]]) who bore [[the One Ring]]. He lived in the [[Misty Mountains]] for most of his life. In {{TA|2941}} he lost the Ring to [[Bilbo Baggins]]. For the rest of his life he sought to recover his "precious" "birthday present". In {{TA|3019}} he followed the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] and met [[Frodo Baggins]]. After leading Frodo into [[Mordor]] and betraying him to [[Shelob]] he finally seized the Ring in [[Cracks of Doom|Sammath Naur]]. In his euphoria he died and destroyed the Ring after falling into the cracks of [[Mount Doom]].<br />
<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Early life===<br />
Sméagol was a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] of [[Stoors|Stoor-kind]] who lived on the banks of the [[Anduin]] in the later [[Third Age]]. These Hobbits had migrated to the [[Gladden Fields]] and became a riverland people under a Matriarch. Sméagol was the Matriarch's grandson and spent the early years of his life living with his extended family during the [[Watchful Peace]], when [[Sauron]] was in the [[East]]. <br />
<br />
He had some amount of education in lore, as during his youth he had learned of the events concerning the [[War of the Last Alliance]] against [[Sauron]].<ref name=Passage>{{TT|IV2}}</ref><br />
<br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Sméagol.jpg|left|thumb|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]] - Sméagol]]<br />
Around the year {{TA|2463}}, on his birthday, with his close relative [[Déagol]] they went fishing in the [[Gladden Fields]]. It was there that Déagol found a gold ring, after being pulled into the water by a large fish. Sméagol demanded the ring as a birthday present and strangled Deágol when he refused. Sméagol became the fourth [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]] after Sauron, [[Isildur]], and [[Déagol]].<br />
<br />
After this event, he started to make a gurgling sound from his throat; for this his family called him "Gollum". Sméagol was quickly corrupted further by the ring and, banished by his people, was forced to find a home in a [[Gollum's Lake|cave]] in the [[Misty Mountains]]. The Ring's malignant influence twisted his Hobbit body and mind and prolonged his life far beyond its natural limits. He called it his "[[Precious]]" or his "Birthday Present," the latter as a justification for killing Déagol.<br />
<br />
Gollum lived longer than any other Hobbit could, and for over four hundred years he managed to live on raw [[fish]], which he caught from his small raft, and [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains|Goblins]] from the nearby [[Goblin-town]]. In later years he found Hobbit and [[Elves|Elven]] food repulsive. The Ring's corrupting influence as well as centuries of isolation in the Misty Mountains took a deep toll on him both physically and mentally. He became disfigured and grotesque in appearance, and by the time he met the Hobbit [[Bilbo Baggins]] he was afflicted with almost complete madness.<br />
<br />
===Departure of the Ring===<br />
[[File:Darrell Sweet - The Riddle Game.jpg|thumb|right|[[Darrell Sweet]] - ''The Riddle Game'']]<br />
In July {{TA|2941}}, during the [[Quest of Erebor]], Bilbo stumbled upon the subterranean lake on which Gollum lived and found the Ring. Gollum had lost the Ring in the network of caves leading to the lake, though in fact it is more proper to say that the Ring abandoned Gollum, for it was known to have a will of its own. As [[Gandalf]] said later, it looked after itself, trying to get back to Sauron. <br />
<br />
After the famous [[Riddle-game|Riddle Game]], during which Gollum was unaware of his loss, Gollum refused to show Bilbo the promised way out and plotted to murder him. When he went to get his "birthday present," however, he found that it was gone. He suddenly realised the answer to Bilbo's last riddle - ''"What have I got in my pocket?"'' - and flew into a rage. Bilbo inadvertently stumbled across the Ring's power of invisibility as he ran, allowing him to follow Gollum to the entrance of the cave. There, Bilbo at first thought to kill Gollum, but was overcome with pity, so he jumped over him to escape. As Bilbo ran, Gollum cried out, "Thief! Thief, Baggins! We hates it forever!"<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gollum is Defeated.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Gollum is Defeated'']]<br />
His addiction to the Ring was so great that he overcame his hatred and fear of the [[Sun]], the [[Moon]] and other creatures. He left the Mountains and pursued Bilbo, but the trail was cold. He made his way into [[Mordor]], where he was captured by the Nazgûl and forced to reveal what he knew about the Ring. Thus Sauron's spies learned from him the names "[[The Shire|Shire]]" and "[[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]]". By {{TA|3017}} Gollum was then set free, but caught by [[Aragorn]], who turned him over to [[Gandalf]]. <br />
<br />
The [[Wizards|Wizard]] managed to interrogate him and learned parts of the history of the Ring which he had not previously known. He placed him in the care of the [[Silvan Elves]] living in [[Thranduil]]'s [[Woodland Realm]] of [[Mirkwood]]. In June of {{TA|3018}}, Orcs raided the [[Elves of Mirkwood]] (in an obviously coordinated attack) allowing Gollum to escape. He resumed his search of the Ring and he was brought into [[Moria]] but could not open the [[Doors of Durin]].<br />
<br />
===The War of the Ring===<br />
[[File:Inger Edelfeldt - Gollum Held Captive by the Elves.jpg|thumb|right|Inger Edelfeldt - ''Gollum Held Captive by the Elves'']]<br />
Gollum picked up the trail of the new [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]], [[Frodo Baggins]], as he and the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] traveled through Moria. On [[15 January|January 15]], {{TA|3019}} the Fellowship was divided when Gandalf disappeared while fighting a [[Durin's Bane|Balrog]]. Gollum continued trailing the remaining members. It is unknown how he crossed the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]], but he came with them to [[Lothlórien]] without their knowing. Gollum, floating on a log, followed their boats down [[Anduin]] to [[Rauros]]. <br />
<br />
He pursued [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] across the [[Emyn Muil]] when they struck out on their own towards Mordor. Gollum followed them, but after a confrontation in which he bit and nearly strangled Sam, Frodo subdued him. Frodo tied an [[Elves|Elvish]] rope around Gollum's ankle for a leash, but the mere touch of the rope pained him. Taking pity on the wretched creature, Frodo made Gollum swear to help them. Agreeing to the oath, Gollum swore by the "Precious" itself, and Frodo released him. The unlikely company, guided by Gollum, made their way to the [[Black Gate]], the entrance to Mordor.<br />
<br />
Frodo's kindness brought out the "Sméagol" personality, and he made at least some effort to keep his promise. The two had a strange sort of bond from both having been Ringbearers; in Gollum, Frodo saw his possible future, and so wanted to save him so he could save himself. Gollum also feared Frodo, and also thought that helping him would deprive Sauron from the Ring.<br />
<br />
When the Black Gate was reached and found to be well guarded, Gollum convinced them not to go that way, saying that they would be caught and Sauron would regain the Ring. Gollum said he would lead them south, where he knew of another entrance into Mordor.<br />
<br />
Frodo and Sam were caught by [[Faramir]], and Gollum followed them. When Frodo allowed Faramir to briefly take Sméagol prisoner, however, he felt betrayed, allowing the "Gollum" personality to take control. Faramir found out that the place Gollum was taking them was called [[Cirith Ungol]]. He then warned Frodo and Sam of the evil of that place.<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gollum at the Forbidden Pool.jpg|thumb|Ted Nasmith - ''Gollum at the Forbidden Pool'']]<br />
Frodo, Sam, and Gollum left Faramir and began crossing the pass of Cirith Ungol in the border-mountains of the [[Ephel Dúath]]. Gollum visited the great spider [[Shelob]], because he was planning to betray the Hobbits to her and then get the Ring for himself. When he returned the Hobbits were asleep. The sight of Frodo sleeping nearly moved Gollum to repent. However, Sam woke up and spoke harshly to Gollum, and all hope of redemption was lost. Gollum followed through with his plan and led Frodo and Sam into [[Shelob's Lair]]. For this service to Shelob, the Orcs of Cirith Ungol knew Gollum as "Her Sneak".<br />
Just as Frodo warned him, Gollum's betrayal of his oath ultimately led to his undoing, for Frodo and Sam escaped from Shelob's lair and came against all odds to the volcano [[Orodruin]], or Mount Doom. Gollum followed them all the way, seeking a chance to surprise them and take the Ring. When Frodo and Sam had almost reached their destination, he attacked, but failed to get the Ring. Sam, who had hated Gollum on sight, tried to bring himself to kill him, but relented out of sheer pity and disgust, turning his back on the beaten creature.<br />
<br />
Moments later, Frodo was standing on the edge of the [[Cracks of Doom|Crack of Doom]], but, unwilling to destroy the Ring, claimed it for himself and put it on. Then Gollum attacked again. The two fought whilst Frodo was invisible and finally Gollum bit off Frodo's finger.<br />
<br />
Here Frodo's kindness in sparing Gollum's life was rewarded, for Gollum then teetered on the edge of the great pit, lost his balance and fell in, taking the Ring and finger with him with a last cry of "Preciouss!". Had Gollum not lived to play this final part, there would have been a good chance that Sauron would have regained the Ring, as he knew where Frodo was as soon as he put the Ring on.<br />
<br />
==Appearance==<br />
[[File:Peter Xavier Price - The Stairs of Cirith Ungol.jpg|left|thumb|185px|[[Peter Xavier Price]] - ''The Stairs of Cirith Ungol'']]<br />
Sméagol was a Hobbit, but he spent long centuries (thanks to the Ring) in darkness and damp, influenced by its evil power. It is possible that thanks to his hardy Hobbitish nature that he was not reduced to a [[Wraiths|wraith]].<ref><br />
{{webcite|author=Stan Brown|website=FAQ of the Rings|articleurl=http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-GollumWraith|articlename=Why hadn’t Gollum turned into a wraith long ago?}}</ref> However, he was reduced to a small, extremely thin and wiry person, with scrawny neck, pale skin, flat feet, long thin hands with clammy fingers, and large pale eyes that seemed to glow. His sense of sight, as well as his hearing and smelling, were very good, due to the time he spent underground.<br />
<br />
He could move and climb silently like a spider, and although he had only six teeth left,<ref>{{HM|H}}</ref> he could give deep bites, even able to bite off Frodo's finger.<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
Sméagol was the most inquisitive and curious-minded of his community. He was an inquisitive Hobbit who was interested in roots and beginnings. He owed [[#Etymology|his name]] to his interest in roots and deep pools; he burrowed and tunnelled under trees, plants, and mounds. <br />
<br />
During his centuries of loneliness and under the Ring's influence, he developed a sort of multiple personality: his evil personality was a slave to the Ring and would kill for it, overwhelming his former self, who still vaguely remembered things like friendship and love. Not having anyone else to speak to, he often quarrelled with himself. Gollum both loved and hated the Ring and himself. He often referred both to the Ring and himself as "my Preciiouss", perhaps confusing the two entities.<ref name=guide/> <br />
[[File:Mariët Theune - The Crack of Doom.jpg|thumb|right|Mariët Theune - ''The Crack of Doom'']]<br />
Years later, [[Samwise Gamgee]] would name the good personality "Slinker" (for his fawning, eager-to-please demeanour), and the bad personality "Stinker".<br />
<br />
Other aspects of the Ring's corruption was the aversion to all living creatures, especially the [[Elves]] and all things Elven. The [[Elven rope]] burnt his skin, and [[lembas]] tasted like dust to him and choked him.<br />
<br />
Sméagol, as a Hobbit, was perhaps good at heart, and his killing was entirely the Ring's doing. But it's also likely that Sméagol was harboring dark thoughts to begin with. Their argument bases on several points, including...<br />
# The sight of the Ring at the [[Council of Elrond]] or at many points in the journey of the Fellowship did not cause anyone to suddenly murder someone else.<br />
# It is possible for Hobbits to be evil; for instance, [[Ted Sandyman]] and [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]].<br />
#Bilbo was corrupted far more slowly by the Ring because his adventures with it began with an act of mercy, while Gollum began his with murder.<ref name=shadow>{{FR|Shadow}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
[[File:Turner Mohan - The Ringbearers.jpg|thumb|left|Turner Mohan - ''The Ringbearers'']]<br />
Sméagol's (pron. {{IPA|[ˈsmæ͡ɑːɣoɫ]}}) name is [[Old English]] one, from ''sméah'', and adjective meaning "''creeping in, penetrating''". It is etymologically related to the word [[smials]]. This title was also applied by the Anglo-Saxons to the Biblical Cain, from the story of Cain's murder of his brother Abel in Genesis. This draws a clear connection between the two.<br />
<br />
Sméagol is the translation of an actual [[Westron]] name ''[[Trahald]]''. The meaning of which was "burrowing, worming in" or "apt to creep into a hole". In both [[Westron]] and Old English, Sméagol's name is related to [[Smaug]]'s: Smaug's name in "true [[Dalish]]" was ''[[Trāgu]]'', and the ''Trah-'' stem in Trahald and Trâgu is thus an analogue of the Germanic stem present in both Sméagol and Smaug.<br />
<br />
[[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] explained in his "[[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings]]" the origin of the name ''Sméagol'' in the lemma on [[smials]]:<br />
{{quote|'''Smials'''. A word peculiar to hobbits (not Common Speech), meaning 'burrow'; leave unchanged. It is a form that the Old English word '''smygel''' 'burrow' might have had, if it had survived. The same element appears in Gollum's real name, '''Sméagol'''.}}<br />
<br />
The name [[Smaug]] which means "squeezed through a hole" is thus related.<ref>{{HM|L}}, [[Letter 31]]</ref><br />
<br />
===Pronunciation===<br />
{{Pronounce|Anglo-Saxon - Sméagol.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
In both the 1981 BBC radio adaptation and in Peter Jackson's films ''Sméagol'' is pronounced as "SMEE-gol", although the placement of the acute accent suggests that the correct pronunciation is "SMAY-uh-gol". On the other hand, in [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s recordings of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' he also pronounced it "SMEE-gol" or "SMEE-AH-GOL", suggesting that ''éa'' should either be pronounced as a long "i"-sound or as a diphthong ''ea'', and not as two distinct vowels "e" and "a". Tolkien had a habit in his writing to put diacritics in varying places, as can also be seen in the name ''[[Eärendil]]'', which also occurs spelt ''Ëarendil''.<br />
<br />
==Other versions of the Legendarium==<br />
In the first edition of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', Gollum did not appear quite as wretched or as bound to the Ring. Tolkien revised this characterisation to fit the concept of the Ruling Ring developed during the writing of ''The Lord of the Rings''. Tolkien then explained the version given in the first edition as a lie that Bilbo made up to tell the [[Thorin and Company|Dwarves]] and [[Gandalf]].<ref name="Christensen">[[Bonniejean Christensen]], [[Jared Lobdell]] (ed.), "Gollum's Character Transformation in ''The Hobbit''", published in ''[[A Tolkien Compass]]'', pages 7-26</ref><br />
<br />
In ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', it is mentioned that [[the One Ring]] was found "ere the Kings failed in Gondor". This can mean that originally, Gollum's age was intended to be considerably more than six hundred years (further reinforced by certain places in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' like Gollum referring to tales about an uncorrupted [[Minas Ithil]] or Gandalf comparing his people to "fathers of the fathers of the [[Stoors]]"). In fact it seems likely that Sauron leaving the Mirkwood in 2063 T.A. and some Hobbits settling there after that are details added for the purpose of making the smaller age possible; perhaps in order to make it possible for Gollum and the other characters to have the same language.<br />
<br />
==Inspiration==<br />
[[John Garth]] has suggested that the character of Gollum carries echoes of the "night-haunting, man-eating" [[Ogres|ogre]] [[Wikipedia:Grendel|Grendel]] in ''[[Beowulf (disambiguation)|Beowulf]]''.<ref>{{webcite|author=[[John Garth]]|articleurl=http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2014/05/j-r-r-tolkien-beowulf-one-mans-passion-threshold-between-myth-and-reality|articlename=J R R Tolkien's Beowulf: one man's passion for the threshold between myth and reality|dated=29 May 2014|website=[http://www.newstatesman.com/ newstatesman.com]|accessed=29 May 2014}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
{{Gallery<br />
|title=Pictures of adaptations of Gollum<br />
|height=150<br />
|width=200<br />
|lines=3<br />
|File:The Hobbit (1966 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (1966 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1966 film)]]<br />
|File:The Hobbit (1977 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]<br />
|File:David T. Wenzel - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (comic book)|''The Hobbit'' (comic book), 1989]]<br />
|File:The Hobbit (2003) Gollum.JPG|[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings- The Treason of Isengard - Concept art Gollum.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Treason of Isengard]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Gollum poster.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Sméagol2.jpg|As Sméagol in [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
|File:Gollum1 viv lotr.JPG|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Gollum.jpg|''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br />
|File:Lego - Gollum poster.png|Gollum as a ''[[Lego]] mini figure''<br />
|File:Guardians of Middle-earth - Gollum.png|''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''<br />
}}<br />
===Films===<br />
'''1977: [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is a frog-like green creature, voiced by [[Brother Theodore]]. Here, his "Gollum" noise sounds like muttering instead of swallowing.<br />
<br />
'''1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is depicted as a skinny, dark grey creature, voiced by [[Peter Woodthorpe]]. <br />
<br />
'''1980: [[The Return of the King (1980 film)|''The Return of the King'' (1980 film)]]:'''<br />
:Brother Theodore reprised his role from the earlier [[Rankin/Bass]] production. Some footage from ''The Hobbit'' was reused to introduce the viewer to the story. <br />
<br />
'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is a CGI-motion capture creature voiced by actor [[Andy Serkis]]. He is barely glimpsed in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', where he is voiced by [[Dominic Monaghan]] in absence of Serkis. Gollum becomes a central character in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]]''. The groundbreaking CGI character was built around Serkis's voice, movements and expressions, sometimes by using a motion capture suit which recorded his movements and applied them to the digital character, and sometimes by the more laborious process of digitally "painting out" Serkis's image and replacing it with Gollum's. In one such shot in ''The Two Towers'', Serkis' real spittle can be seen emerging from Gollum's mouth.<br />
<br />
:In ''The Return of the King'' Serkis himself appears in a flashback scene as Sméagol before his degeneration into Gollum. This scene was originally earmarked for ''The Two Towers'' but held back because it was felt that audiences would relate better to the original Sméagol once they were more familiar with who he became. The decision to include this scene meant that Gollum's face had to be redesigned for the second and third movies so that it would more closely resemble Serkis'.<br />
<br />
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Andy Serkis]] reprised his role as Gollum.<ref name="PJCasting1">{{webcite|author=[[Peter Jackson]]|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150168211921558|articlename=Production begins in New Zealand on The Hobbit|dated=20-March-2011|website=[http://www.facebook.com/ Facebook]|accessed=21-Dec-2011}}</ref>He appears only in [[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey|the First Hobbit film]] where he meets Bilbo and make [[Riddles in the Dark|their riddles]].<br />
<br />
===Radio series===<br />
'''1955: [[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1955 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The voice of Gollum is provided by [[Gerik Schjelderup]].<ref name="RT1723">Radio Times, Volume 133, No. 1723, [[16 November|November 16]], [[1956]]</ref><br />
<br />
'''1968: [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The narrator refers to Gollum (voiced by [[Wolfe Morris]]) as "Galloom", even though Gollum himself manages to pronounce his name correctly. Gollum's role is based on that of the second edition of ''The Hobbit''.<ref>[[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]], "[[Riddles in the Dark (episode)|Riddles in the Dark]]" <br />
</ref><br />
<br />
'''1979: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Gail Chugg]] provided the voice of Gollum.<br />
<br />
'''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum, again performed by [[Peter Woodthorpe]], has the first lines of the play (save [[Gerard Murphy|the narrator]]). He is described as "slimy and as dark than darkness".<ref>''[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)]], "[[The Long Awaited Party]]"</ref><br />
<br />
===Games===<br />
'''1982: ''[[The Hobbit (1982 video game)]]'''''<br />
:Gollum appears in the tunnels of the Misty Mountains. He will persistently speak riddles to Bilbo, and strangle him to death if he fails to answer them in time. However, if Bilbo puts the [[One Ring|Ring]] on, then Gollum will not be able to see him. He can also be killed by Bilbo or his companions, even though doing so would seriously conflict with established canon.<br />
'''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum, voiced by [[Quinton Flynn]], is seen thrice: first, in the introduction scene, he is stooping over his precious, dashing away from the camera. He is a creature in colour and clothing much like Jackson's version. He is briefly glimpsed again in [[Moria]], but not more than a dark shape with a green outline can be seen.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]], "3 Passages"</ref> His most important role is in the final stages of the game: he can be seen atop several ridges, and can even be visited on a rock on the shores of [[Nen Hithoel]]. He throws a [[fish]], the "Xiphiidae", at "[[Aragorn|Ranger]]". This will become the most deadly weapon in the game, and replaces [[Andúril]] in the weapon slots.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]], "Amon Hen"</ref> <br />
<br />
'''2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is accompanying Sam and Frodo during [[Osgiliath]] mission and the is the final boss of the game at the Crack of Doom. Unlike all other enemies of the game, he takes no damage from any attacks - instead the players must perform combinations to push him into lava below.<br />
<br />
'''2003: ''[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|Sierra's The Hobbit'']]:'''<br />
:Gollum appears in a cut scene after the level "Riddles in the Dark". Only Bilbo's last riddle - "What have I got in my pocket?" - is shown, after which Gollum spouts out all possible answers in one sentence rather than in three turns. Gollum is a dark grey, hobbit-like creature with seven spiky teeth, who walks on all fours like an ape would, and like his Rankin/Bass counterpart, his "Gollum" noise is a muttering instead of a swallowing. He is voiced by [[Daran Norris]].<ref>[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]], "Riddles in the Dark"</ref><br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a "Hero" unit for the Servants of the Enemy, used primarily for scout missions.<br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a "Hero" for the Mordor factions. His health is extremely low and his attacks extremely weak, but has value for the scout missions.<br />
<br />
'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br />
:In non-storyline battles, stealthed Gollum is roaming the map. If detected and killed, he drops The One Ring, which can give huge advantage to the side that gets it.<br />
<br />
'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is encountered thrice, though the player has yet to know his name. The first time he is met in southern [[Trollshaws]], where the player prevents him from attacking the baby of two Fishermen; the second time he is seen in southern Mirkwood, where the player must defeat the Orcs who attempts to capture him, the third time is on the Shores of Anduin, where the player has to make sure he does not fall prey to the spiders.<br />
<br />
'''2012: ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a striker-type "guardian" with four abilities: ''Throttle'', ''My Precious'', ''Coward'' and ''We are starved''.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.co.uk/guardians/gollum|articlename=''Guardians of Middle-earth'': Gollum|dated=|website=[http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.com/ ''Guardians of Middle-earth'' official website]|accessed=16 July 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
'''2014: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is featured in the game.He is one of the supporting chaacters of the game.In the game, set between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, Gollum is searching for the One Ring and encounters Talion, the protagonist of the game and helps him in his Quest.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:Images of Gollum|Images of Gollum]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
<br />
*[http://lingwe.blogspot.se/2012/12/smeagol-whats-in-name.html Sméagol — what’s in a name?] by [[Jason Fisher]]<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=hobbit<br />
| born=c. {{TA|2430}}<br />
| died=[[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Déagol]]<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=c. {{TA|2463}} - {{TA|2941|n}}<br />
| next=[[Bilbo Baggins]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Frodo Baggins]]<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=briefly, [[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
| nvac=None<br />
| next=Ring destroyed<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
[[Category:Evil]]<br />
[[Category:Hobbits]]<br />
[[Category:Ring-bearers]]<br />
[[Category:Stoors]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Gollum]]<br />
[[fa:گالوم]]<br />
[[fi:Klonkku]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=High_Fells_of_Rhudaur&diff=291548High Fells of Rhudaur2017-01-19T01:08:56Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* See also */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Adaptation}}<br />
[[File:The Hobbit - The Desolation of Smaug - High Fells of Rhudaur.jpg|The High Fells in ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]''|right|thumb|200px]]<br />
The '''High Fells of [[Rhudaur]]''' is a location of [[Middle-earth]] that only exists in the [[Peter Jackson]] movie trilogy of [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'']]. It is where the [[Nazgûl|Nine]] were buried and is described more as a dungeon than as a grave.<br />
<br />
During the meeting of the [[White Council]] in ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'', it was first mentioned by Lady [[Galadriel]] as the location where the [[Witch-king]] of [[Angmar]] (along with his [[Morgul-knife|Morgul blade]]) was buried after Angmar fell. She said that the Men of the North took his body and all that he possessed and sealed it within the High Fells and powerful spells were put by the Elves, as it is implied by [[Elrond]]. A place that is said to be so dark, that it would never come to light.<br />
<br />
In ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'', [[Gandalf]] and [[Radagast]] go to investigate the High Fells, revealing that it is also the location where the other Ringwraiths were buried. The [[Wizards]] find all the crypts are broken open from the inside. After learning that the Nine have returned to [[Sauron|their master]], Radagast persuades Gandalf, who wished to rejoin [[Thorin and Company]] at that point, to investigate the ruins of [[Dol Guldur]].<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[Battle of Fornost]]<br />
*[[Angmar War]]<br />
[[Category:Locations in adaptations]]<br />
[[Category:Non-canon locations]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=High_Fells_of_Rhudaur&diff=291547High Fells of Rhudaur2017-01-19T01:07:09Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Adaptation}}<br />
[[File:The Hobbit - The Desolation of Smaug - High Fells of Rhudaur.jpg|The High Fells in ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]''|right|thumb|200px]]<br />
The '''High Fells of [[Rhudaur]]''' is a location of [[Middle-earth]] that only exists in the [[Peter Jackson]] movie trilogy of [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'']]. It is where the [[Nazgûl|Nine]] were buried and is described more as a dungeon than as a grave.<br />
<br />
During the meeting of the [[White Council]] in ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]]'', it was first mentioned by Lady [[Galadriel]] as the location where the [[Witch-king]] of [[Angmar]] (along with his [[Morgul-knife|Morgul blade]]) was buried after Angmar fell. She said that the Men of the North took his body and all that he possessed and sealed it within the High Fells and powerful spells were put by the Elves, as it is implied by [[Elrond]]. A place that is said to be so dark, that it would never come to light.<br />
<br />
In ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'', [[Gandalf]] and [[Radagast]] go to investigate the High Fells, revealing that it is also the location where the other Ringwraiths were buried. The [[Wizards]] find all the crypts are broken open from the inside. After learning that the Nine have returned to [[Sauron|their master]], Radagast persuades Gandalf, who wished to rejoin [[Thorin and Company]] at that point, to investigate the ruins of [[Dol Guldur]].<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[Battle of Fornost]]<br />
*[[Angmar War]]<br />
[[Category:Locations in adaptations]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gollum&diff=291544Gollum2017-01-18T18:36:51Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Films */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Countdown}}<br />
{{hobbit infobox<br />
| name=Gollum<br />
| image=[[File:John Howe - Gollum.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Gollum" by [[John Howe]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=Sméagol<br/>Stinker<br/>Slinker<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=c. {{TA|2430}}<ref name=guide>{{HM|Guide}}, p. 167, entry "Gollum"</ref><br />
| birthlocation=Near [[Gladden Fields]]<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Mount Doom]]<br />
| age=c. 589<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| family=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=Thin, lank<ref name="Taming">{{TT|Taming}}</ref><br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Gollum''', also known as '''Sméagol''' ([[Old English|OE]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈsmæ͡ɑːɣoɫ]}}), was a creature (originally a [[Stoors|Stoorish]] [[Hobbits|Hobbit]]) who bore [[the One Ring]]. He lived in the [[Misty Mountains]] for most of his life. In {{TA|2941}} he lost the Ring to [[Bilbo Baggins]]. For the rest of his life he sought to recover his "precious" "birthday present". In {{TA|3019}} he followed the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] and met [[Frodo Baggins]]. After leading Frodo into [[Mordor]] and betraying him to [[Shelob]] he finally seized the Ring in [[Cracks of Doom|Sammath Naur]]. In his euphoria he died and destroyed the Ring after falling into the cracks of [[Mount Doom]].<br />
<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Early life===<br />
Sméagol was a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] of [[Stoors|Stoor-kind]] who lived on the banks of the [[Anduin]] in the later [[Third Age]]. These Hobbits had migrated to the [[Gladden Fields]] and became a riverland people under a Matriarch. Sméagol was the Matriarch's grandson and spent the early years of his life living with his extended family during the [[Watchful Peace]], when [[Sauron]] was in the [[East]]. <br />
<br />
He had some amount of education in lore, as during his youth he had learned of the events concerning the [[War of the Last Alliance]] against [[Sauron]].<ref name=Passage>{{TT|IV2}}</ref><br />
<br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Sméagol.jpg|left|thumb|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]] - Sméagol]]<br />
Around the year {{TA|2463}}, on his birthday, with his close relative [[Déagol]] they went fishing in the [[Gladden Fields]]. It was there that Déagol found a gold ring, after being pulled into the water by a large fish. Sméagol demanded the ring as a birthday present and strangled Deágol when he refused. Sméagol became the fourth [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]] after Sauron, [[Isildur]], and [[Déagol]].<br />
<br />
After this event, he started to make a gurgling sound from his throat; for this his family called him "Gollum". Sméagol was quickly corrupted further by the ring and, banished by his people, was forced to find a home in a [[Gollum's Lake|cave]] in the [[Misty Mountains]]. The Ring's malignant influence twisted his Hobbit body and mind and prolonged his life far beyond its natural limits. He called it his "[[Precious]]" or his "Birthday Present," the latter as a justification for killing Déagol.<br />
<br />
Gollum lived longer than any other Hobbit could, and for over four hundred years he managed to live on raw [[fish]], which he caught from his small raft, and [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains|Goblins]] from the nearby [[Goblin-town]]. In later years he found Hobbit and [[Elves|Elven]] food repulsive. The Ring's corrupting influence as well as centuries of isolation in the Misty Mountains took a deep toll on him both physically and mentally. He became disfigured and grotesque in appearance, and by the time he met the Hobbit [[Bilbo Baggins]] he was afflicted with almost complete madness.<br />
<br />
===Departure of the Ring===<br />
[[File:Darrell Sweet - The Riddle Game.jpg|thumb|right|[[Darrell Sweet]] - ''The Riddle Game'']]<br />
In July {{TA|2941}}, during the [[Quest of Erebor]], Bilbo stumbled upon the subterranean lake on which Gollum lived and found the Ring. Gollum had lost the Ring in the network of caves leading to the lake, though in fact it is more proper to say that the Ring abandoned Gollum, for it was known to have a will of its own. As [[Gandalf]] said later, it looked after itself, trying to get back to Sauron. <br />
<br />
After the famous [[Riddle-game|Riddle Game]], during which Gollum was unaware of his loss, Gollum refused to show Bilbo the promised way out and plotted to murder him. When he went to get his "birthday present," however, he found that it was gone. He suddenly realised the answer to Bilbo's last riddle - ''"What have I got in my pocket?"'' - and flew into a rage. Bilbo inadvertently stumbled across the Ring's power of invisibility as he ran, allowing him to follow Gollum to the entrance of the cave. There, Bilbo at first thought to kill Gollum, but was overcome with pity, so he jumped over him to escape. As Bilbo ran, Gollum cried out, "Thief! Thief, Baggins! We hates it forever!"<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gollum is Defeated.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Gollum is Defeated'']]<br />
His addiction to the Ring was so great that he overcame his hatred and fear of the [[Sun]], the [[Moon]] and other creatures. He left the Mountains and pursued Bilbo, but the trail was cold. He made his way into [[Mordor]], where he was captured by the Nazgûl and forced to reveal what he knew about the Ring. Thus Sauron's spies learned from him the names "[[The Shire|Shire]]" and "[[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]]". By {{TA|3017}} Gollum was then set free, but caught by [[Aragorn]], who turned him over to [[Gandalf]]. <br />
<br />
The [[Wizards|Wizard]] managed to interrogate him and learned parts of the history of the Ring which he had not previously known. He placed him in the care of the [[Silvan Elves]] living in [[Thranduil]]'s [[Woodland Realm]] of [[Mirkwood]]. In June of {{TA|3018}}, Orcs raided the [[Elves of Mirkwood]] (in an obviously coordinated attack) allowing Gollum to escape. He resumed his search of the Ring and he was brought into [[Moria]] but could not open the [[Doors of Durin]].<br />
<br />
===The War of the Ring===<br />
[[File:Inger Edelfeldt - Gollum Held Captive by the Elves.jpg|thumb|right|Inger Edelfeldt - ''Gollum Held Captive by the Elves'']]<br />
Gollum picked up the trail of the new [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]], [[Frodo Baggins]], as he and the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] traveled through Moria. On [[15 January|January 15]], {{TA|3019}} the Fellowship was divided when Gandalf disappeared while fighting a [[Durin's Bane|Balrog]]. Gollum continued trailing the remaining members. It is unknown how he crossed the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]], but he came with them to [[Lothlórien]] without their knowing. Gollum, floating on a log, followed their boats down [[Anduin]] to [[Rauros]]. <br />
<br />
He pursued [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] across the [[Emyn Muil]] when they struck out on their own towards Mordor. Gollum followed them, but after a confrontation in which he bit and nearly strangled Sam, Frodo subdued him. Frodo tied an [[Elves|Elvish]] rope around Gollum's ankle for a leash, but the mere touch of the rope pained him. Taking pity on the wretched creature, Frodo made Gollum swear to help them. Agreeing to the oath, Gollum swore by the "Precious" itself, and Frodo released him. The unlikely company, guided by Gollum, made their way to the [[Black Gate]], the entrance to Mordor.<br />
<br />
Frodo's kindness brought out the "Sméagol" personality, and he made at least some effort to keep his promise. The two had a strange sort of bond from both having been Ringbearers; in Gollum, Frodo saw his possible future, and so wanted to save him so he could save himself. Gollum also feared Frodo, and also thought that helping him would deprive Sauron from the Ring.<br />
<br />
When the Black Gate was reached and found to be well guarded, Gollum convinced them not to go that way, saying that they would be caught and Sauron would regain the Ring. Gollum said he would lead them south, where he knew of another entrance into Mordor.<br />
<br />
Frodo and Sam were caught by [[Faramir]], and Gollum followed them. When Frodo allowed Faramir to briefly take Sméagol prisoner, however, he felt betrayed, allowing the "Gollum" personality to take control. Faramir found out that the place Gollum was taking them was called [[Cirith Ungol]]. He then warned Frodo and Sam of the evil of that place.<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gollum at the Forbidden Pool.jpg|thumb|Ted Nasmith - ''Gollum at the Forbidden Pool'']]<br />
Frodo, Sam, and Gollum left Faramir and began crossing the pass of Cirith Ungol in the border-mountains of the [[Ephel Dúath]]. Gollum visited the great spider [[Shelob]], because he was planning to betray the Hobbits to her and then get the Ring for himself. When he returned the Hobbits were asleep. The sight of Frodo sleeping nearly moved Gollum to repent. However, Sam woke up and spoke harshly to Gollum, and all hope of redemption was lost. Gollum followed through with his plan and led Frodo and Sam into [[Shelob's Lair]]. For this service to Shelob, the Orcs of Cirith Ungol knew Gollum as "Her Sneak".<br />
Just as Frodo warned him, Gollum's betrayal of his oath ultimately led to his undoing, for Frodo and Sam escaped from Shelob's lair and came against all odds to the volcano [[Orodruin]], or Mount Doom. Gollum followed them all the way, seeking a chance to surprise them and take the Ring. When Frodo and Sam had almost reached their destination, he attacked, but failed to get the Ring. Sam, who had hated Gollum on sight, tried to bring himself to kill him, but relented out of sheer pity and disgust, turning his back on the beaten creature.<br />
<br />
Moments later, Frodo was standing on the edge of the [[Cracks of Doom|Crack of Doom]], but, unwilling to destroy the Ring, claimed it for himself and put it on. Then Gollum attacked again. The two fought whilst Frodo was invisible and finally Gollum bit off Frodo's finger.<br />
<br />
Here Frodo's kindness in sparing Gollum's life was rewarded, for Gollum then teetered on the edge of the great pit, lost his balance and fell in, taking the Ring and finger with him with a last cry of "Preciouss!". Had Gollum not lived to play this final part, there would have been a good chance that Sauron would have regained the Ring, as he knew where Frodo was as soon as he put the Ring on.<br />
<br />
==Appearance==<br />
[[File:Peter Xavier Price - The Stairs of Cirith Ungol.jpg|left|thumb|185px|[[Peter Xavier Price]] - ''The Stairs of Cirith Ungol'']]<br />
Sméagol was a Hobbit, but he spent long centuries (thanks to the Ring) in darkness and damp, influenced by its evil power. It is possible that thanks to his hardy Hobbitish nature that he was not reduced to a [[Wraiths|wraith]].<ref><br />
{{webcite|author=Stan Brown|website=FAQ of the Rings|articleurl=http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-GollumWraith|articlename=Why hadn’t Gollum turned into a wraith long ago?}}</ref> However, he was reduced to a small, extremely thin and wiry person, with scrawny neck, pale skin, flat feet, long thin hands with clammy fingers, and large pale eyes that seemed to glow. His sense of sight, as well as his hearing and smelling, were very good, due to the time he spent underground.<br />
<br />
He could move and climb silently like a spider, and although he had only six teeth left,<ref>{{HM|H}}</ref> he could give deep bites, even able to bite off Frodo's finger.<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
Sméagol was the most inquisitive and curious-minded of his community. He was an inquisitive Hobbit who was interested in roots and beginnings. He owed [[#Etymology|his name]] to his interest in roots and deep pools; he burrowed and tunnelled under trees, plants, and mounds. <br />
<br />
During his centuries of loneliness and under the Ring's influence, he developed a sort of multiple personality: his evil personality was a slave to the Ring and would kill for it, overwhelming his former self, who still vaguely remembered things like friendship and love. Not having anyone else to speak to, he often quarrelled with himself. Gollum both loved and hated the Ring and himself. He often referred both to the Ring and himself as "my Preciiouss", perhaps confusing the two entities.<ref name=guide/> <br />
[[File:Mariët Theune - The Crack of Doom.jpg|thumb|right|Mariët Theune - ''The Crack of Doom'']]<br />
Years later, [[Samwise Gamgee]] would name the good personality "Slinker" (for his fawning, eager-to-please demeanour), and the bad personality "Stinker".<br />
<br />
Other aspects of the Ring's corruption was the aversion to all living creatures, especially the [[Elves]] and all things Elven. The [[Elven rope]] burnt his skin, and [[lembas]] tasted like dust to him and choked him.<br />
<br />
Sméagol, as a Hobbit, was perhaps good at heart, and his killing was entirely the Ring's doing. But it's also likely that Sméagol was harboring dark thoughts to begin with. Their argument bases on several points, including...<br />
# The sight of the Ring at the [[Council of Elrond]] or at many points in the journey of the Fellowship did not cause anyone to suddenly murder someone else.<br />
# It is possible for Hobbits to be evil; for instance, [[Ted Sandyman]] and [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]].<br />
#Bilbo was corrupted far more slowly by the Ring because his adventures with it began with an act of mercy, while Gollum began his with murder.<ref name=shadow>{{FR|Shadow}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
[[File:Turner Mohan - The Ringbearers.jpg|thumb|left|Turner Mohan - ''The Ringbearers'']]<br />
Sméagol's (pron. {{IPA|[ˈsmæ͡ɑːɣoɫ]}}) name is [[Old English]] one, from ''sméah'', and adjective meaning "''creeping in, penetrating''". It is etymologically related to the word [[smials]]. This title was also applied by the Anglo-Saxons to the Biblical Cain, from the story of Cain's murder of his brother Abel in Genesis. This draws a clear connection between the two.<br />
<br />
Sméagol is the translation of an actual [[Westron]] name ''[[Trahald]]''. The meaning of which was "burrowing, worming in" or "apt to creep into a hole". In both [[Westron]] and Old English, Sméagol's name is related to [[Smaug]]'s: Smaug's name in "true [[Dalish]]" was ''[[Trāgu]]'', and the ''Trah-'' stem in Trahald and Trâgu is thus an analogue of the Germanic stem present in both Sméagol and Smaug.<br />
<br />
[[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] explained in his "[[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings]]" the origin of the name ''Sméagol'' in the lemma on [[smials]]:<br />
{{quote|'''Smials'''. A word peculiar to hobbits (not Common Speech), meaning 'burrow'; leave unchanged. It is a form that the Old English word '''smygel''' 'burrow' might have had, if it had survived. The same element appears in Gollum's real name, '''Sméagol'''.}}<br />
<br />
The name [[Smaug]] which means "squeezed through a hole" is thus related.<ref>{{HM|L}}, [[Letter 31]]</ref><br />
<br />
===Pronunciation===<br />
{{Pronounce|Anglo-Saxon - Sméagol.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
In both the 1981 BBC radio adaptation and in Peter Jackson's films ''Sméagol'' is pronounced as "SMEE-gol", although the placement of the acute accent suggests that the correct pronunciation is "SMAY-uh-gol". On the other hand, in [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s recordings of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' he also pronounced it "SMEE-gol" or "SMEE-AH-GOL", suggesting that ''éa'' should either be pronounced as a long "i"-sound or as a diphthong ''ea'', and not as two distinct vowels "e" and "a". Tolkien had a habit in his writing to put diacritics in varying places, as can also be seen in the name ''[[Eärendil]]'', which also occurs spelt ''Ëarendil''.<br />
<br />
==Other versions of the Legendarium==<br />
In the first edition of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', Gollum did not appear quite as wretched or as bound to the Ring. Tolkien revised this characterisation to fit the concept of the Ruling Ring developed during the writing of ''The Lord of the Rings''. Tolkien then explained the version given in the first edition as a lie that Bilbo made up to tell the [[Thorin and Company|Dwarves]] and [[Gandalf]].<ref name="Christensen">[[Bonniejean Christensen]], [[Jared Lobdell]] (ed.), "Gollum's Character Transformation in ''The Hobbit''", published in ''[[A Tolkien Compass]]'', pages 7-26</ref><br />
<br />
In ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', it is mentioned that [[the One Ring]] was found "ere the Kings failed in Gondor". This can mean that originally, Gollum's age was intended to be considerably more than six hundred years (further reinforced by certain places in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' like Gollum referring to tales about an uncorrupted [[Minas Ithil]] or Gandalf comparing his people to "fathers of the fathers of the [[Stoors]]"). In fact it seems likely that Sauron leaving the Mirkwood in 2063 T.A. and some Hobbits settling there after that are details added for the purpose of making the smaller age possible; perhaps in order to make it possible for Gollum and the other characters to have the same language.<br />
<br />
==Inspiration==<br />
[[John Garth]] has suggested that the character of Gollum carries echoes of the "night-haunting, man-eating" [[Ogres|ogre]] [[Wikipedia:Grendel|Grendel]] in ''[[Beowulf (disambiguation)|Beowulf]]''.<ref>{{webcite|author=[[John Garth]]|articleurl=http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2014/05/j-r-r-tolkien-beowulf-one-mans-passion-threshold-between-myth-and-reality|articlename=J R R Tolkien's Beowulf: one man's passion for the threshold between myth and reality|dated=29 May 2014|website=[http://www.newstatesman.com/ newstatesman.com]|accessed=29 May 2014}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
{{Gallery<br />
|title=Pictures of adaptations of Gollum<br />
|height=150<br />
|width=200<br />
|lines=3<br />
|File:The Hobbit (1966 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (1966 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1966 film)]]<br />
|File:The Hobbit (1977 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]<br />
|File:David T. Wenzel - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (comic book)|''The Hobbit'' (comic book), 1989]]<br />
|File:The Hobbit (2003) Gollum.JPG|[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings- The Treason of Isengard - Concept art Gollum.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Treason of Isengard]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Gollum poster.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Sméagol2.jpg|As Sméagol in [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
|File:Gollum1 viv lotr.JPG|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Gollum.jpg|''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br />
|File:Lego - Gollum poster.png|Gollum as a ''[[Lego]] mini figure''<br />
|File:Guardians of Middle-earth - Gollum.png|''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''<br />
}}<br />
===Films===<br />
'''1977: [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is a frog-like green creature, voiced by [[Brother Theodore]]. Here, his "Gollum" noise sounds like muttering instead of swallowing.<br />
<br />
'''1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is depicted as a skinny, dark grey creature, voiced by [[Peter Woodthorpe]]. <br />
<br />
'''1980: [[The Return of the King (1980 film)|''The Return of the King'' (1980 film)]]:'''<br />
:Brother Theodore reprised his role from the earlier [[Rankin/Bass]] production. Some footage from ''The Hobbit'' was reused to introduce the viewer to the story. <br />
<br />
'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is a CGI-motion capture creature voiced by actor [[Andy Serkis]]. He is barely glimpsed in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', where he is voiced by [[Dominic Monaghan]] in absence of Serkis. Gollum becomes a central character in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]]''. The groundbreaking CGI character was built around Serkis's voice, movements and expressions, sometimes by using a motion capture suit which recorded his movements and applied them to the digital character, and sometimes by the more laborious process of digitally "painting out" Serkis's image and replacing it with Gollum's. In one such shot in ''The Two Towers'', Serkis' real spittle can be seen emerging from Gollum's mouth.<br />
<br />
:In ''The Return of the King'' Serkis himself appears in a flashback scene as Sméagol before his degeneration into Gollum. This scene was originally earmarked for ''The Two Towers'' but held back because it was felt that audiences would relate better to the original Sméagol once they were more familiar with who he became. The decision to include this scene meant that Gollum's face had to be redesigned for the second and third movies so that it would more closely resemble Serkis'.<br />
<br />
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Andy Serkis]] reprised his role as Gollum.<ref name="PJCasting1">{{webcite|author=[[Peter Jackson]]|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150168211921558|articlename=Production begins in New Zealand on The Hobbit|dated=20-March-2011|website=[http://www.facebook.com/ Facebook]|accessed=21-Dec-2011}}</ref>He appears only in [[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey|the First Hobbit film]] where he meets Bilbo and make [[Riddles in the Dark|their riddles]].<br />
<br />
===Radio series===<br />
'''1955: [[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1955 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The voice of Gollum is provided by [[Gerik Schjelderup]].<ref name="RT1723">Radio Times, Volume 133, No. 1723, [[16 November|November 16]], [[1956]]</ref><br />
<br />
'''1968: [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The narrator refers to Gollum (voiced by [[Wolfe Morris]]) as "Galloom", even though Gollum himself manages to pronounce his name correctly. Gollum's role is based on that of the second edition of ''The Hobbit''.<ref>[[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]], "[[Riddles in the Dark (episode)|Riddles in the Dark]]" <br />
</ref><br />
<br />
'''1979: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Gail Chugg]] provided the voice of Gollum.<br />
<br />
'''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum, again performed by [[Peter Woodthorpe]], has the first lines of the play (save [[Gerard Murphy|the narrator]]). He is described as "slimy and as dark than darkness".<ref>''[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)]], "[[The Long Awaited Party]]"</ref><br />
<br />
===Games===<br />
'''1982: ''[[The Hobbit (1982 video game)]]'''''<br />
:Gollum appears in the tunnels of the Misty Mountains. He will persistently speak riddles to Bilbo, and strangle him to death if he fails to answer them in time. However, if Bilbo puts the [[One Ring|Ring]] on, then Gollum will not be able to see him. He can also be killed by Bilbo or his companions, even though doing so would seriously conflict with established canon.<br />
'''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum, voiced by [[Quinton Flynn]], is seen thrice: first, in the introduction scene, he is stooping over his precious, dashing away from the camera. He is a creature in colour and clothing much like Jackson's version. He is briefly glimpsed again in [[Moria]], but not more than a dark shape with a green outline can be seen.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]], "3 Passages"</ref> His most important role is in the final stages of the game: he can be seen atop several ridges, and can even be visited on a rock on the shores of [[Nen Hithoel]]. He throws a [[fish]], the "Xiphiidae", at "[[Aragorn|Ranger]]". This will become the most deadly weapon in the game, and replaces [[Andúril]] in the weapon slots.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]], "Amon Hen"</ref> <br />
<br />
'''2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is accompanying Sam and Frodo during [[Osgiliath]] mission and the is the final boss of the game at the Crack of Doom. Unlike all other enemies of the game, he takes no damage from any attacks - instead the players must perform combinations to push him into lava below.<br />
<br />
'''2003: ''[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|Sierra's The Hobbit'']]:'''<br />
:Gollum appears in a cut scene after the level "Riddles in the Dark". Only Bilbo's last riddle - "What have I got in my pocket?" - is shown, after which Gollum spouts out all possible answers in one sentence rather than in three turns. Gollum is a dark grey, hobbit-like creature with seven spiky teeth, who walks on all fours like an ape would, and like his Rankin/Bass counterpart, his "Gollum" noise is a muttering instead of a swallowing. He is voiced by [[Daran Norris]].<ref>[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]], "Riddles in the Dark"</ref><br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a "Hero" unit for the Servants of the Enemy, used primarily for scout missions.<br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a "Hero" for the Mordor factions. His health is extremely low and his attacks extremely weak, but has value for the scout missions.<br />
<br />
'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br />
:In non-storyline battles, stealthed Gollum is roaming the map. If detected and killed, he drops The One Ring, which can give huge advantage to the side that gets it.<br />
<br />
'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is encountered thrice, though the player has yet to know his name. The first time he is met in southern [[Trollshaws]], where the player prevents him from attacking the baby of two Fishermen; the second time he is seen in southern Mirkwood, where the player must defeat the Orcs who attempts to capture him, the third time is on the Shores of Anduin, where the player has to make sure he does not fall prey to the spiders.<br />
<br />
'''2012: ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a striker-type "guardian" with four abilities: ''Throttle'', ''My Precious'', ''Coward'' and ''We are starved''.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.co.uk/guardians/gollum|articlename=''Guardians of Middle-earth'': Gollum|dated=|website=[http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.com/ ''Guardians of Middle-earth'' official website]|accessed=16 July 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
'''2014: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is featured in the game.He is one of the supporting chaacters of the game.In the game, set between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, Gollum is searching for the One Ring and encounters Talion, the protagonist of the game and helps him in his Quest.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:Images of Gollum|Images of Gollum]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
<br />
*[http://lingwe.blogspot.se/2012/12/smeagol-whats-in-name.html Sméagol — what’s in a name?] by [[Jason Fisher]]<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=hobbit<br />
| born=c. {{TA|2430}}<br />
| died=[[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Déagol]]<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=c. {{TA|2463}} - {{TA|2941|n}}<br />
| next=[[Bilbo Baggins]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Frodo Baggins]]<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=briefly, [[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
| nvac=None<br />
| next=Ring destroyed<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
[[Category:Evil]]<br />
[[Category:Hobbits]]<br />
[[Category:Ring-bearers]]<br />
[[Category:Stoors]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Gollum]]<br />
[[fa:گالوم]]<br />
[[fi:Klonkku]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Middle-earth:_Shadow_of_Mordor&diff=291543Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor2017-01-18T18:29:57Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Expansion}}<br />
{{incomplete}}<br />
{{video game infobox<br />
<br />
| image = <br />
| name = Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor<br />
| developer = [[Monolith Productions]]<br />
| publisher = [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]]<br />
| platform = PC, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Xbox One<br />
| releasedate = [[30 September]] [[2014]]<br />
| genre = [[wikipedia:Action role-playing|Action role-playing]]<br />
| modes =<br />
| rating =<br />
| distribution =<br />
}}<br />
'''''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor''''' is an open world action-adventure video game, published by [[Monolith Productions]]. Released in 2014, the story takes place between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', acting as a bridge between the two eras. The protagonist's name is Talion, a [[Gondorian]] [[Ranger]] stationed at the [[Black Gate]]. Talion's family is slain the night the Dark Lord [[Sauron]] and his [[Uruk-Hai]] forces return to reclaim [[Mordor]], setting the Ranger on a quest for revenge after he is possessed and sustained from death by a mysterious [[Wraith]].<br />
<br />
==Plot Synopsis==<br />
<br />
The family of Talion, a ranger who guards the black gates into Mordor, is brutally killed by the black hand of Sauron. Talion is also killed but is brought back to life merged with a wraith that gives him inhuman powers. He ventures into Mordor to exact revenge and to help the wraith find his past identity and what brings the two together. <br />
<br />
== Gameplay ==<br />
<br />
''Shadow of Mordor'' is an open-world action/adventure game that is set entirely within Mordor. The overworld is mainly populated by [[Uruk-hai|Uruks]], as well as never-before-seen creatures, such as the cat-like Caragors and troll-like Graugs.<br />
<br />
One defining feature of the game is the Nemesis System, which allows the game to remember Uruks of a certain notability and track their progress as they rise from lowly soldiers to high-ranking captains and even war-chiefs. Most of these Uruks are randomly-generated and can vary in appearance, name, personality, and strengths/weaknesses. the Captains can randomly be found among the anonymous masses, though the war-chiefs can only be encountered by completing certain objectives to draw them out of hiding.<br />
<br />
There are a number of tactics and strategies that can be exploited to kill Uruks: In addition to killing them in normal combat, one can also poison a nearby barrel of grog and let Uruk-hai drink from it, grapple them and throw them over the edge of a cliff or platform, set Caragors loose on them by breaking open their cages, launch sneak attacks from above or behind, or "brand" Uruks with the Wraith's powers to brainwash them and pit them against other Orcs.<br />
<br />
== Voice cast ==<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"<br />
! Role !! Actor<br />
|-<br />
| [[Talion]] || [[Troy Baker]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Celebrimbor|The Wraith]] || [[Alister Duncan]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Black Hand]] || [[Nolan North]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Sauron]] || [[Steve Blum]] <br />
|-<br />
| Torvin || [[Adam Croasdell]] <br />
|-<br />
| Ioreth || [[Laura Bailey]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Gollum]] || [[Liam O'Brien]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Galadriel]] || [[Jennifer Hale]]<br />
|-<br />
| Queen Marwen || [[Claudia Black]]<br />
|-<br />
| Dirhael || [[Jack Quaid]] <br />
|-<br />
| [[Saruman]] || [[Roger Jackson]]<br />
|-<br />
| Ship Captain || [[Jason Connery ]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices ||[[Yuri Lowenthal]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices || [[JB Blanc]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices || [[Chris Cox]] <br />
|}<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[:Category:Images from Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor|Images from Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
* '''[http://www.shadowofmordor.com/agegate/ Official website]'''<br />
{{Videogames}}<br />
{{title|italic}}<br />
[[Category:Action games]]<br />
[[Category:Adventure games]]<br />
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]<br />
[[Category:Open world games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 3 games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 4 games]]<br />
[[Category:Role playing games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox One games]]<br />
[[Category:Warner Bros. Interactive games]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Galadriel&diff=291542Galadriel2017-01-18T18:24:43Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Portrayal in adaptations */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{sources}}<br />
{{disambig-more|Galadriel|[[Galadriel (disambiguation)]]}}<br />
{{noldor infobox<br />
| name=Galadriel<br />
| image=[[File:Matt Stewart - Galadriel.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Galadriel" by [[:Category:Images by Matt Stewart|Matt Stewart]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=''[[#Names|Artanis]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Father-name|fn]]),<br/>''[[Nerwen]]'' ([[Quenya|Q]], [[Amilessë|mn]])<br/>''[[Galadriel#Names|Alatáriel]]'' ([[Telerin|T]], [[epessë]])<br />
| titles= Lady of [[Lothlórien]],<br/>Lady of Light,<br/>Lady of the Wood,<br/>Lady of the [[Galadhrim]]<br/>Mistress of Magic<ref>Called thus by [[Faramir (son of Denethor II)|Faramir]] ({{TT|Window}}).</ref><br />
| position=<br />
| location=[[Tirion]]; [[Doriath]]; [[Lindon]]; [[Eregion]]; [[Lothlórien]]<br />
| affiliation=[[White Council]]<br />
| language=[[Quenya]], [[Sindarin]] and [[Silvan Elvish]]<br />
| birth={{YT|1362}}<ref>{{MR|P2l}}, p. 106</ref><br />
| birthlocation=[[Tirion]]<br />
| rule=<br />
| sailedwest=[[29 September]], {{TA|3021}}<br />
| sailedfrom=[[Grey Havens]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=[[House of Finarfin]]<br />
| parentage=[[Finarfin]] and [[Eärwen]]<br />
| siblings=[[Finrod]], [[Angrod]] and [[Aegnor]]<br />
| spouse=[[Celeborn]]<br />
| children=[[Celebrían]]<br />
| gender=Female<br />
| height=6 feet, 4 inches (193cm)<ref>{{UT|Measures}}</ref><ref group=note>Quote by J.R.R. Tolkien from the Unfinished Tales, the same section referenced:'' "Thus two rangar was often called 'man-high', which at thirty-eight inches gives an average height of six feet four inches; (1.93 meters) '''but this was at a later date, when the stature of the Dúnedain appears to have decreased'''..."'' (emphasis mine)</ref><br />
| hair=Radiant gold-silver<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=White robes<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
{{quote|Very tall [Galadriel and Celeborn] were, and the Lady no less tall than the Lord; and they were grave and beautiful. They were clad wholly in white; and the hair of the Lady was of deep gold… but no sign of age was upon them, unless it were in the depths of their eyes; for these were keen as lances in the starlight, and yet profound, the wells of deep memory.|''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', "[[The Mirror of Galadriel]]"}}<br />
'''Galadriel''' ([[Sindarin|S]], pron. {{IPA|[ɡaˈladri.el]}}) was a [[Noldo]], one of the [[Calaquendi]], and arguably the most famous and powerful elf of the [[Third Age]]. She was one of the bearers of the [[Three Rings]], of [[Nenya]], and with it kept her realm of [[Lothlórien]] free of stain.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Life in Aman===<br />
When a fourth child was born to [[Finarfin]], prince of the Noldor, and [[Eärwen]], princess of the [[Falmari|Teleri]], her father named her '''[[Artanis]]''', which is "noble woman". She was unusually tall and strong as she grew, and so Eärwen’s name for her was '''[[Nerwen]]''', "man-maiden". Though the source of her hair colour was from her parents, it was said among the Eldar that her hair had captured the light of the [[Two Trees]] in Valinor, which resulted a very unique and dazzling colour of gold and silver.<ref name=Galadriel>{{UT|Galadriel}}</ref> According to a legend, this is how [[Fëanor]] conceived the idea of capturing the light of the trees inside the [[Silmarils]]. Despite her mixed blood, she was identified as a princess of the Noldor, as her father was the third son of [[Finwë]], [[High King of the Noldor]].<br />
<br />
During the [[Darkening of Valinor]], she was very independent and visionary. She swore no [[Oath of Fëanor|oaths]] but the words of Fëanor concerning Middle-earth kindled a desire in her heart, as she was eager to see those wide unguarded lands and rule a realm of her own.<br />
During the troubles that followed, even though she participated in the revolt of the Noldor,<ref>{{RGEO|Notes}}</ref> she fought against Fëanor in defence of her mother's kin in the [[Kinslaying of Alqualondë]].<ref name=Galadriel/> Accounts suggest she travelled among the second group led by Fingolfin, which joined the battle at [[Alqualondë]] late and without knowing how it had started. Some of that group had not participated in the killing, although it is not clear who and how many. Dismayed by the prophecy of [[Mandos]], her father Finarfin abandoned the march of the Noldor and returned to Valinor. But Galadriel and her brothers crossed the [[Helcaraxë]] in far north and arrived to the northern shores of [[Hither Lands]]<ref name="Sil9">{{S|Flight}}</ref>. <br />
<br />
:See also: ''[[#Other Versions of the Legendarium|Other Versions of the Legendarium]]''.<br />
<br />
===Arrival to Middle-earth===<br />
[[File:Līga Kļaviņa - Love at First Sight.jpg|left|thumb|Līga Kļaviņa - ''Love at First Sight'']]<br />
In [[Beleriand]], Galadriel and her eldest brother [[Finrod Felagund]] came to [[Doriath]] as guests of [[Elu Thingol]], the King of Doriath. It was there she met [[Celeborn]], a kinsman of Thingol, who would become her husband and companion in Middle-earth<ref>{{S|13}}</ref>. When her brother Finrod departed to the [[Caverns of Narog]] to establish the stronghold of [[Nargothrond]], Galadriel did not go with him and remained in Doriath with her husband, though she occasionally visited her brother in Nargothrond.<br />
[[Image:Donato Giancola - Galadriel and the mirror.jpg|right|thumb|[[Donato Giancola]] - ''Galadriel and the mirror'']]<br />
During her days in Doriath, Galadriel became friends with Queen [[Melian]] the [[Maia]], and they spoke often to one another about Valinor.<ref name="Sil15">{{S|15}}</ref> Melian was eager to learn the causes of the [[Exile of the Noldor|Exile of the Noldor]], but Galadriel would tell her nothing of what occurred after the death of the Trees. Eventually, however, as Melian’s guesses became more shrewd and accurate, Galadriel revealed the tale to her, though still leaving out the death of Finwë, the Kinslaying, and the burning of the Ships at [[Losgar]].<ref name="Sil15"/> Melian was able to discern some of what was left unsaid, and still more came as rumors to Thingol’s ears. At last, egged on by the accusing words of Thingol, [[Angrod]] told all. Galadriel was not expelled from Doriath because of Thingol’s sympathy to the houses of Finarfin and Fingolfin for the wrongs they had suffered. All the same, she went to Nargothrond to live with Finrod for a time.<ref name="Sil15"/> Presumably, she returned to Doriath to live with her husband.<br />
<br />
Galadriel did not have any significant role in the general course of events in the [[War of the Jewels]]. She and Celeborn survived, or even were not present in the [[Sack of Nargothrond|destruction of Nargothrond]] in {{FA|495}} and [[Second Kinslaying|Doriath]] in {{FA|503}}/{{FA|506}}. It is not unlikely that after the destruction of Doriath they went to the [[Havens of Sirion]] along with many survivors of Beleriand (or even with their Telerin kin to the [[Isle of Balar]] with [[Círdan]]). Thus they even survived the [[Third Kinslaying]], and after that, the [[War of Wrath]].<br />
<br />
After the overthrow of Morgoth, a ban was set upon her return to Aman by the Valar, but she was proud and replied that she had no interest in returning.<ref>{{RGEO|Notes}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Second Age===<br />
After the War of Wrath, Galadriel and Celeborn came to [[Lindon]] with the other survivors of Beleriand.<ref>{{App|B1}}</ref>They ruled over the fiefdom of [[Harlindon]], which was composed mostly of [[Sindar]], under the [[Gil-galad|High King Gil-galad]]<ref>{{PM|X}}</ref>. Eventually the couple moved to a new land called [[Eregion]] in far eastwards of Lindon.<ref>{{RGEO|Notes}}</ref> It was ruled by [[Celebrimbor]], a grandson of Fëanor and distant cousin of Galadriel. They dwelt there for a time and Galadriel was probably present during the crafting of the [[Rings of Power]]. Eventually Galadriel and Celeborn made contact with the [[Nandor]] of [[Amdír]], who dwelt in a forest realm called Lindórinand (Vale of the Land of Singers) across the [[Misty Mountains]]. They crossed the [[Hithaeglir]] through [[Moria|Khazad-dûm]] and relocated to there, becoming great among the [[Silvan Elves|Wood-elves]]. <br />
<br />
Celebrimbor and the jewelsmiths of [[Gwaith-i-Mírdain]] collaborated with [[Annatar]] on the great process of making Rings of Power.<ref name="SilV">{{S|V}}</ref> By Annatar’s help, the Elves of Eregion created many rings, but both Celebrimbor and Annatar created greater rings of their own in secret. Celebrimbor wrought the [[Three Rings]] of the Elves, which were far more powerful than the lesser rings. Annatar, however, wrought [[the One Ring]]. When he placed it on his finger, the Elves were aware of his treachery, and took off their rings. Celebrimbor, afraid for his life but even more for the safety of the Three Rings, sent them to two of the [[Wise]]: [[Narya]] and [[Vilya]] for Gil-galad (who eventually gave Narya to [[Círdan]]), and [[Nenya]] for Galadriel. Very few even of the Eldar knew who hid each of these Rings. Celebrimbor was slain by [[Sauron]] not long after, and Eregion was laid waste.<ref name="SilV"/> But the Three Rings were safe. [[Image:Angus McBride - Galadriel.gif|thumb|left|250px|[[Angus McBride]] - ''Galadriel'']]<br />
At this time, many Noldor of Sindarin speech migrated to the realm of Amdír, escaping from the destruction of Eregion, and Celeborn fortified it against Sauron's attempts to cross the Anduin. Soon thereafter, the White Council (not to be confused with the first White Council of the Third Age) was held in the newly-found realm of Imladris, where Elrond met and fell in love with Celebrían, the daughter that Galadriel and Celeborn had at some time during the Second Age.<ref name=Galadriel/><br />
<br />
In time [[Amdír]], King of Lindórinand, was slain in the [[Battle of Dagorlad]] during the [[War of the Last Alliance]]. Celeborn may have participated in the war, but the greatest effect it had on the twain was the destruction of [[Sauron]] and the loss of [[the One Ring]]. Galadriel was now free to use her ring.<br />
<br />
===Third Age===<br />
When King [[Amroth]] son of Amdír perished, Celeborn and Galadriel ruled Lindórinand jointly, and were called the [[Lord and Lady of Galadhrim]]. Galadriel planted the [[mallorn]] seeds brought with her from Lindon, the only mallorns east of the Sea, and afterwards the realm was called Lórinand (Valley of Gold) and Laurelindórinand (Valley of the Singing Gold), which through some transformations turned into the later name of [[Lothlórien]] or Lórien. They established [[Caras Galadhon]], and the realm of Lothlórien was one of light and life. With [[Nenya]], the Ring of Water, Galadriel made the realm of Lórien even greater. With the power of her ring, she protected it from the intrusion of evils throughout the Third Age.It was during their days of power and glory in Lothlórien that Celebrían, their only child, married [[Elrond]], a close friend of Galadriel’s and bearer of [[Vilya]] after the death of Gil-galad during the Alliance. Celeborn and Galadriel had three grandchildren by her, one of whom, [[Arwen]], they were especially close to. But Celebrían was waylaid and tortured by [[Orcs]] in {{TA|2509}}, and passed West over the sea.<br />
<br />
In {{TA|2463}} the [[White Council]] was formed. Galadriel, being one of the [[Wise]] and the greatest threat to Sauron alive, was one of the members.<ref name="SilV"/> Celeborn may have been as well, but this is not known for sure. She was a good friend of [[Gandalf]], and recommended that he be made head of the Council. But this distinction fell instead to [[Saruman]], whom she distrusted.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Billy Mosig - The Mirror of Galadriel.jpg|thumb|right|250px|[[Billy Mosig]] - ''The Mirror of Galadriel'']]During the [[War of the Ring]], Galadriel met the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] in {{TA|3019}}. She especially was attentive to the [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] [[Frodo Baggins]], who was the bearer of [[the One Ring]]. She showed him Nenya, and let him gaze into her [[Mirror of Galadriel|mirror]] of seeing. He offered her the One Ring, and despite the extreme temptation, she resisted it successfully. She sent the Fellowship off on their quest furnished with [[Gifts_of_Galadriel|gifts]]. The two most important gifts she gave were to [[Aragorn]], whom she knew well and liked, and a [[Dwarves|dwarf]] named [[Gimli]]. To Aragorn she gave the [[Elfstone]], which she and her daughter Celebrían had worn. This jewel was created for her by Celebrimbor in Eregion, in remembrance of the first Elfstone, that was now lost.<ref name=Galadriel/> She was unsure as to what to give Gimli, and asked what he wanted. After complimenting her beauty, he requested a single strand of her hair. Galadriel remembered the posing of a similar question by Fëanor, but had searched Gimli’s heart and knew that his intentions were pure. She rewarded him with three strands, which he was later to put into an imperishable crystal in memory of her.<br />
<br />
Not long after the departure of the Fellowship she received the resurrected Gandalf. She reclothed and refurnished him, giving him a new staff. After Gandalf left, Lothlórien was subjected to three successive attacks by armies coming out of [[Dol Guldur]]. By the power of her Ring they were thrice repulsed. Celeborn then led [[Fall of Dol Guldur|an attack on Dol Guldur]] itself. Once the dark fortress was in the hands of the Galadhrim, Galadriel came, threw down its walls, and purified it of its evil. It was her last act of power, for the One Ring was destroyed, and the strength of Nenya waned and eventually vanished almost completely.<br />
<br />
===Return to Valinor===<br />
Galadriel attended the wedding of Aragorn with Arwen, then returned to Lothlórien. But in {{TA|3021}}, two years later, she bade farewell to Celeborn her husband and went West to Valinor. With her went the other two bearers of the Rings, Gandalf and Elrond, and Frodo and Bilbo Baggins who had borne the One Ring. They passed West, and came never again to Middle-earth. There in Valinor Galadriel must have tried to heal Frodo of his spiritual wounds.{{fact}} Whether she was successful or not is unknown. But sometime later during the [[Fourth Age]] she received Celeborn, her husband. And in {{FoA|120}}, it is said, she received Gimli her admirer, who was the first and only dwarf to enter Valinor.<br />
<br />
==Characteristics==<br />
Galadriel was very beautiful, her hair being the most notable feature about her. It reminded the Eldar of the light of the [[Two Trees]].<ref name=Galadriel/> Galadriel, at least in her earlier years, was of a somewhat proud and rebellious nature. She was free-spirited, and during her time in Aman had many dreams of wide unexplored lands. In her early youth, she was very willful and of an "Amazon" disposition; and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats.<ref>{{L|348}}</ref> Her favorite brother was Finrod, for he, too, shared this vision. She could explore the minds and hearts of others, and her gaze was seeing. It may be because of her unusual beauty and power that she became proud.<br />
<br />
But by the Third Age she is also seen to act with wisdom and gentleness. In ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', she appears very gentle, firm, and wise. She was revered even more than Celeborn by the Galadhrim and all who met her.<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
{{Pronounce|Galadriel.mp3|Ardamir}}<br />
''[[Galadriel]]'' is a [[Sindarin]] name translated by [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] as "glittering garland",<ref>{{L|345}}, p. 423</ref> "Maiden crowned with gleaming hair",<ref>{{L|348}}, p. 428</ref> and "maiden crowned with a radiant garland".<ref name=SApp>{{S|Appendix}}</ref><ref>{{HM|RC}}, pp. 44-45</ref> It has been suggested that ''Galadriel'' consists of ''[[galad]]'' ("light, radiance") + ''[[rî]]'' ("crown") + ''[[iell]]'' ("daughter").<ref>{{webcite|articleurl=http://www.tolkiendil.com/langues/english/i-lam_arth/compound_sindarin_names#g|articlename=Compound Sindarin Names|website= [http://www.tolkiendil.com/ Tolkiendil.com]}}</ref> Tolkien notes that the element ''galad'' had no relation to Sindarin ''[[galadh]]'' ("tree", or Silvan ''galad'' "tree"), but that such a connexion often was made and her name then was pronounced ''Galadhriel''.<ref name=SApp/><ref>{{MR|P3I5}}, p. 182 (commentary to §42)</ref><br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
'''''Alatáriel''''' was the [[Telerin]] [[Quenya]] name given to Galadriel by [[Celeborn]], meaning "Maiden Crowned with Radiant Garland", which referred to her hair.<ref>{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''The names of Finwë's descendants'', p. 347</ref><br />
<br />
At the time of her birth, [[Finarfin]] named his only daughter ''[[Artanis]]''. '''''Artanis''''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈartanis]}}, stem ''Artaniss-'') was Galadriel's [[father-name]]: it means "Noble Woman" in [[Quenya]] from ''[[arta]]'' and ''[[nís]]''.<ref>{{PM|Shibboleth}}, ''The names of the Sons of Fëanor with the legend of the fate of Amrod'', p. 354</ref><ref>{{MR|P3II}}, p. 213</ref><br />
<br />
'''Nerwen''' is the [[Amilessë|mother-name]] of the [[Elves|elf]] [[Galadriel]].<br />
<br />
According to the custom of the Elves, her mother, [[Eärwen]], waited a while to give her daughter a name. Due to Artanis's height and her great strength of body and will, Eärwen chose the name '''''Nerwen''''' ([[Quenya|Q]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈnerwen]}}), meaning 'man-maiden'. In the end, however, their daughter used neither her [[father-name]] nor her mother-name, and instead took the name by which she is known to history: [[Galadriel]].<br />
<br />
The name “Galadriel was chosen by Artanis (’noble woman’) to be her Sindarin name, for it was the most beautiful of her names, and, chose as an epessë [after name or ‘nickname’], had been given to her by her lover, Teleporno of the Teleri, whom she wedded later in Beleriand.”<ref>{{PM|Shibboleth}}</ref><ref group="note">Teleporno was the Teleri-styled named for Lord Celeborn: "“It is only of course in the late version that Celeborn appears with a High-elven, rather than Sindarin, name: Teleporno." {{UT|6e}}</ref> <br />
<br />
'''''Galadhriel''''' was a name occasionally, and incorrectly, used of [[Galadriel]] after she became [[Lady of Lórien]], and meaning 'tree-garland'. As the [[Lady of the Galadhrim]], whose capital was at [[Caras Galadhon]], it is perhaps understandable that her name should have become confused with the [[Elvish]] word galadh, meaning 'tree'. Nonetheless, this usage was mistaken — her true name ''Galadriel'' actually derived from the word ''galad'' ("radiant"), and the false variant ''Galadhriel'' was never used in her own country of [[Lórien in Middle-earth|Lórien]].<ref>{{S|Appendix}}, ''kal-''</ref><br />
<br />
==Other Versions of the Legendarium==<br />
<br />
There is a bit of befuddlement and confusion in the story of Galadriel, which [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] revised multiple times. Some of the points that were revised often are the role of Galadriel in the rebellion of the Noldor, the reason why she remained in Middle-earth, and the time at which she met Celeborn. <br />
<br />
In the notes to ''The Road Goes Ever On'' and in the published ''[[The Silmarillion|Silmarillion]]'', Galadriel was one of the leaders of the revolt and followed Fëanor into Exile.<ref name="Sil9"/> She couldn't return to Valinor because a ban was set against her, and she met Celeborn in Doriath, who was one of the Sindar. This is the only version of her story that was published by Tolkien during his lifetime. <br />
<br />
However, there are two late essays written by Tolkien after ''The Road Goes Ever On'' and published in ''Unfinished Tales'' that contradict this. In one of them, though Galadriel revolts along with the other Noldor, she's offered the pardon of the Valar, but refuses to return to Aman nonetheless. <br />
<br />
In the other, later essay, Galadriel has no participation at all in the rebellion of the Noldor, but sails on her own ship to Middle-earth. She would have been allowed to sail to Middle-earth by the Valar in normal conditions, but since she did it during the disturbance of Valinor, she fell under the Doom of Mandos all the same.<br />
<br />
In both essays, she met Celeborn in Aman. He was called in Quenya ''Teleporno'', and was a young Telerin prince, probably the son or grandson of [[Olwë]] (which would make him Artanis’s uncle or cousin)*. They eventually fell in love, and he called her in his own Telerin tongue [[Alatáriel]] (later [[Sindarization|Sindarinized]] as Galadriel and semi-[[Quenya|Quenyarized]] as [[Altáriel]]). <br />
It's unknown whether Tolkien would have gone ahead with this revision (possibly making a new edition of ''The Road Goes Ever On''), or if he would have felt bound by the published version. This account presents also the difficulty of Celeborn and Galadriel being so closely related (the Eldar did not marry that close). <br />
<br />
Another point that was revised, was the time at which Galadriel passed over the mountains of Ered Luin to enter Eriador. In ''The Fellowship of the Ring'', she says that she passed over the mountains before the fall of Nargothrond and Gondolin, yet in Appendix B of The Lord of the Rings it's said that at the beginning of the Second Age she was still dwelling in Lindon, before passing over the mountains. This contradiction in the same work must have been due to a mistake during revision.<br />
<br />
Besides this, the earlier version of the story of Amroth given in [[Unfinished Tales]], says that Galadriel and Celeborn had two children, of which one was [[Amroth]].<ref name=Galadriel/><br />
<br />
== Genealogy ==<br />
<div style="overflow-x: scroll; overflow-y: hidden; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: 3px; background: #EEEEEE;"><br />
{{familytree/start}}<br />
{{familytree| MIR |y|~|~|~|~|~|~| FIN |y| IND | | | | | | | | OLW | | | | | | | |MIR=[[Míriel]]</br><small>''d. {{YT|1170}}''</small>|FIN=[[Finwë]]</br><small>''d. {{YT|1495}}''</small>|IND=[[Indis]]</br><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|OLW=[[Olwë]]</br><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree| | | |!| | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|^|-|v|-|-|-|.| | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree| | | FEA | | FDS | | FNG | | IRM | | FRF |y| EAW | | SON | | | | | |FEA=[[Fëanor]]</br><small>''{{YT|1169}} - {{YT|1497|n}}''</small>|FDS=[[Findis]]</br><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|FNG=[[Fingolfin]]</br><small>''{{YT|1190}} - {{FA|456}}''</small>|IRM=[[Írimë]]</br><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|FRF=[[Finarfin]]</br><small>''b. {{YT|1230}}''</small>|EAW=[[Eärwen]]</br><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|SON=''unknown sons''}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|-|-|v|-|-|-|^|-|-|-|v|-|-|.| | | | | | |}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | FRD | | ANG |y| ELD | | AEG | | GAL |y| CEL |FRD=[[Finrod]]</br><small>''{{YT|1300}} - {{FA|465}}''</small>|ANG=[[Angrod]]</br><small>''d. {{FA|455}}''</small>|AEG=[[Aegnor]]</br><small>''d. {{FA|455}}''</small>|GAL='''GALADRIEL'''</br><small>''b. {{YT|1362}}''</small>|ELD=[[Eldalótë]]</br><small>''b. {{YT}}''</small>|CEL=[[Celeborn]]</br><small>''b. {{FA}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | | | | | | | | | |!| | | |}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ORO | | | | | | ELR |y| CLB | | |ORO=[[Orodreth]]</br><small>''d. {{FA|495}}''</small>|CLB=[[Celebrían]]</br><small>''b. {{SA}}''</small>|ELR=[[Elrond]]</br><small>''b. {{FA|532}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |,|-|^|-|.| | | |,|-|-|-|+|-|-|-|.| |}}<br />
{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | GIL | | FIL | | ELL | | ELO | | ARW |GIL=[[Gil-galad]]</br><small>''d. {{SA|3441}}''</small>|FIL=[[Finduilas]]</br><small>''d. {{FA|495}}''</small>|ELL=[[Elladan]]</br><small>''b. {{TA|130}}''</small>|ELO=[[Elrohir]]</br><small>''b. {{TA|130}}''</small>|ARW=[[Arwen]]</br><small>''{{TA|241}} - {{FoA|121}}''</small>}}<br />
{{familytree/end}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
<gallery> <br />
File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Galadriel.jpg|Galadriel as portrayed in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]<br />
File:The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Galadriel.jpg|[[Cate Blanchett]] as Galadriel in [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
File:Galadriel lotr fotr.JPG|Galadriel as portrayed in [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|Vivendi's ''The Fellowship of the Ring'']]<br />
File:Galadriel.jpg|Galadriel in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br />
File:The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey - Galadriel.jpg|[[Cate Blanchett]] as Galadriel in [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]<br />
</gallery> <br />
<br />
'''1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]:'''<br />
:Galadriel is voiced by [[Annette Crosbie]].<br />
<br />
'''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The voice of Galadriel is provided by [[Marian Diamond]]. In addition to the Lorien episodes, the voice of Galadriel is heard in Shelob's Lair as a reminder to use the phial, and she appears with Elrond in the final episode in the Shire, as they journey towards the Grey Havens.<br />
<br />
'''2001: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
:Galadriel is played by [[Cate Blanchett]]. Galadriel narrates the Prologue, explaining the creation of the Rings of Power and the War of the Last Alliance. Earlier plans considered were to have either Frodo or Gandalf narrate the Prologue, but this was dropped: Frodo was not alive until thousands of years after these events happened, and although Gandalf was alive, he was not present in Middle-earth at the time; the Wizards came some one thousand years after the Prologue ends. Thus Galadriel narrates the Prologue, because she had first-hand accounts of this history and actively participated in its events. <br />
<br />
'''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Galadriel, voiced by [[Jennifer Hale]], is the narrator of the Prologue and the Epilogue, and appears in Lothlórien.<br />
<br />
'''2002: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]'':'''<br />
:Galadriel frequently consults telepathically with Elrond; there is an indication from the books{{fact}} that the two were able to communicate in some way, without specific reference. In the film, unlike the book, [[Galadriel]] and [[Elrond]] send an army of [[Elves]] - led by [[Haldir]] - to [[Battle of the Hornburg|Helm's Deep]] to aid the [[Rohirrim]]. In the DVD commentary, [[Peter Jackson]] and his fellow writers explain that they worried audiences would wonder why the Elves don't seem to be helping in the war, while at the same time, they felt that actually inserting an entire separate battle scene at Lothlórien would take up too much screentime and resources. <br />
<br />
'''2003: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]'':'''<br />
:A spiritual apparition of Lady Galadriel appears to provide Frodo strength following his passage through Shelob's Lair, soon after he uses the Phial that she gave him. She is later seen leaving Middle-Earth along with other Ring-Bearers, but in film version her husband Celeborn departs with her at the same time.<br />
<br />
'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br />
:Galadriel is the strongest of "Hero" units available to the Free Peoples. If a player's army manages to spot [[Gollum]] on the battlefield, take The One Ring from him and deliver it to their forces, the option to "summon" Galadriel unlocks for a large amount of resources. Thus, Lady Galadriel is represented as succumbing to corruption of The Ring, similar to the respective scene in the ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'' movie.<br />
<br />
'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br />
:Galadriel is a non-playable character, who narrates cutscenes and instances throughout the second Volume of the Epic story. Introduced in [[The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria]] Book VI: [[The Shadowy Abyss]], she usually resides on a [[talan]] at [[Caras Galadhon]].<br />
<br />
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Cate Blanchett reprised her role as Galadriel,although the character itself is absent from the novel.<ref name="PJCasting">{{webcite|author=[[Peter Jackson]]|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150168211921558|articlename=Production begins in New Zealand on The Hobbit|dated=20-March-2011|website=[http://www.facebook.com/ Facebook]|accessed=23-Dec-2011}}</ref> She appears as part of the [[White Council]] alongside [[Saruman]], [[Gandalf]] and [[Elrond]]. Later, she telepathically urges Gandalf to further seek the true identity of the [[Sauron#Sauron's Return|Necromancer]]. Finally, during the [[attack on Dol Guldur]], Galadriel plays a larger role. She first rescues Gandalf from captivity, and is ultimately the one to drive Sauron from the fortress using her [[Phial of Galadriel|phial]].<br />
<br />
'''2014: [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]:'''<br />
:Galadriel is featured in the game, although she is a non-playable character.<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[:Category:Images of Galadriel|Images of Galadriel]]<br />
{{references|notes}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:First Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:House of Finarfin]]<br />
[[Category:Second Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:Sindarin names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Galadriel]]<br />
[[fr:encyclo/personnages/elfes/noldor/galadriel]]<br />
[[fi:Galadriel]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gollum&diff=291540Gollum2017-01-18T18:01:34Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Games */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Countdown}}<br />
{{hobbit infobox<br />
| name=Gollum<br />
| image=[[File:John Howe - Gollum.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Gollum" by [[John Howe]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=Sméagol<br/>Stinker<br/>Slinker<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=<br />
| location=<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=c. {{TA|2430}}<ref name=guide>{{HM|Guide}}, p. 167, entry "Gollum"</ref><br />
| birthlocation=Near [[Gladden Fields]]<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[25 March]] {{TA|3019}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Mount Doom]]<br />
| age=c. 589<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| family=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=Thin, lank<ref name="Taming">{{TT|Taming}}</ref><br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Gollum''', also known as '''Sméagol''' ([[Old English|OE]], pron. {{IPA|[ˈsmæ͡ɑːɣoɫ]}}), was a creature (originally a [[Stoors|Stoorish]] [[Hobbits|Hobbit]]) who bore [[the One Ring]]. He lived in the [[Misty Mountains]] for most of his life. In {{TA|2941}} he lost the Ring to [[Bilbo Baggins]]. For the rest of his life he sought to recover his "precious" "birthday present". In {{TA|3019}} he followed the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] and met [[Frodo Baggins]]. After leading Frodo into [[Mordor]] and betraying him to [[Shelob]] he finally seized the Ring in [[Cracks of Doom|Sammath Naur]]. In his euphoria he died and destroyed the Ring after falling into the cracks of [[Mount Doom]].<br />
<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Early life===<br />
Sméagol was a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] of [[Stoors|Stoor-kind]] who lived on the banks of the [[Anduin]] in the later [[Third Age]]. These Hobbits had migrated to the [[Gladden Fields]] and became a riverland people under a Matriarch. Sméagol was the Matriarch's grandson and spent the early years of his life living with his extended family during the [[Watchful Peace]], when [[Sauron]] was in the [[East]]. <br />
<br />
He had some amount of education in lore, as during his youth he had learned of the events concerning the [[War of the Last Alliance]] against [[Sauron]].<ref name=Passage>{{TT|IV2}}</ref><br />
<br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Sméagol.jpg|left|thumb|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]] - Sméagol]]<br />
Around the year {{TA|2463}}, on his birthday, with his close relative [[Déagol]] they went fishing in the [[Gladden Fields]]. It was there that Déagol found a gold ring, after being pulled into the water by a large fish. Sméagol demanded the ring as a birthday present and strangled Deágol when he refused. Sméagol became the fourth [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]] after Sauron, [[Isildur]], and [[Déagol]].<br />
<br />
After this event, he started to make a gurgling sound from his throat; for this his family called him "Gollum". Sméagol was quickly corrupted further by the ring and, banished by his people, was forced to find a home in a [[Gollum's Lake|cave]] in the [[Misty Mountains]]. The Ring's malignant influence twisted his Hobbit body and mind and prolonged his life far beyond its natural limits. He called it his "[[Precious]]" or his "Birthday Present," the latter as a justification for killing Déagol.<br />
<br />
Gollum lived longer than any other Hobbit could, and for over four hundred years he managed to live on raw [[fish]], which he caught from his small raft, and [[Orcs of the Misty Mountains|Goblins]] from the nearby [[Goblin-town]]. In later years he found Hobbit and [[Elves|Elven]] food repulsive. The Ring's corrupting influence as well as centuries of isolation in the Misty Mountains took a deep toll on him both physically and mentally. He became disfigured and grotesque in appearance, and by the time he met the Hobbit [[Bilbo Baggins]] he was afflicted with almost complete madness.<br />
<br />
===Departure of the Ring===<br />
[[File:Darrell Sweet - The Riddle Game.jpg|thumb|right|[[Darrell Sweet]] - ''The Riddle Game'']]<br />
In July {{TA|2941}}, during the [[Quest of Erebor]], Bilbo stumbled upon the subterranean lake on which Gollum lived and found the Ring. Gollum had lost the Ring in the network of caves leading to the lake, though in fact it is more proper to say that the Ring abandoned Gollum, for it was known to have a will of its own. As [[Gandalf]] said later, it looked after itself, trying to get back to Sauron. <br />
<br />
After the famous [[Riddle-game|Riddle Game]], during which Gollum was unaware of his loss, Gollum refused to show Bilbo the promised way out and plotted to murder him. When he went to get his "birthday present," however, he found that it was gone. He suddenly realised the answer to Bilbo's last riddle - ''"What have I got in my pocket?"'' - and flew into a rage. Bilbo inadvertently stumbled across the Ring's power of invisibility as he ran, allowing him to follow Gollum to the entrance of the cave. There, Bilbo at first thought to kill Gollum, but was overcome with pity, so he jumped over him to escape. As Bilbo ran, Gollum cried out, "Thief! Thief, Baggins! We hates it forever!"<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gollum is Defeated.jpg|thumb|left|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Gollum is Defeated'']]<br />
His addiction to the Ring was so great that he overcame his hatred and fear of the [[Sun]], the [[Moon]] and other creatures. He left the Mountains and pursued Bilbo, but the trail was cold. He made his way into [[Mordor]], where he was captured by the Nazgûl and forced to reveal what he knew about the Ring. Thus Sauron's spies learned from him the names "[[The Shire|Shire]]" and "[[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]]". By {{TA|3017}} Gollum was then set free, but caught by [[Aragorn]], who turned him over to [[Gandalf]]. <br />
<br />
The [[Wizards|Wizard]] managed to interrogate him and learned parts of the history of the Ring which he had not previously known. He placed him in the care of the [[Silvan Elves]] living in [[Thranduil]]'s [[Woodland Realm]] of [[Mirkwood]]. In June of {{TA|3018}}, Orcs raided the [[Elves of Mirkwood]] (in an obviously coordinated attack) allowing Gollum to escape. He resumed his search of the Ring and he was brought into [[Moria]] but could not open the [[Doors of Durin]].<br />
<br />
===The War of the Ring===<br />
[[File:Inger Edelfeldt - Gollum Held Captive by the Elves.jpg|thumb|right|Inger Edelfeldt - ''Gollum Held Captive by the Elves'']]<br />
Gollum picked up the trail of the new [[Ring-bearers|Ring-bearer]], [[Frodo Baggins]], as he and the [[Fellowship of the Ring]] traveled through Moria. On [[15 January|January 15]], {{TA|3019}} the Fellowship was divided when Gandalf disappeared while fighting a [[Durin's Bane|Balrog]]. Gollum continued trailing the remaining members. It is unknown how he crossed the [[Bridge of Khazad-dûm]], but he came with them to [[Lothlórien]] without their knowing. Gollum, floating on a log, followed their boats down [[Anduin]] to [[Rauros]]. <br />
<br />
He pursued [[Frodo Baggins|Frodo]] and [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] across the [[Emyn Muil]] when they struck out on their own towards Mordor. Gollum followed them, but after a confrontation in which he bit and nearly strangled Sam, Frodo subdued him. Frodo tied an [[Elves|Elvish]] rope around Gollum's ankle for a leash, but the mere touch of the rope pained him. Taking pity on the wretched creature, Frodo made Gollum swear to help them. Agreeing to the oath, Gollum swore by the "Precious" itself, and Frodo released him. The unlikely company, guided by Gollum, made their way to the [[Black Gate]], the entrance to Mordor.<br />
<br />
Frodo's kindness brought out the "Sméagol" personality, and he made at least some effort to keep his promise. The two had a strange sort of bond from both having been Ringbearers; in Gollum, Frodo saw his possible future, and so wanted to save him so he could save himself. Gollum also feared Frodo, and also thought that helping him would deprive Sauron from the Ring.<br />
<br />
When the Black Gate was reached and found to be well guarded, Gollum convinced them not to go that way, saying that they would be caught and Sauron would regain the Ring. Gollum said he would lead them south, where he knew of another entrance into Mordor.<br />
<br />
Frodo and Sam were caught by [[Faramir]], and Gollum followed them. When Frodo allowed Faramir to briefly take Sméagol prisoner, however, he felt betrayed, allowing the "Gollum" personality to take control. Faramir found out that the place Gollum was taking them was called [[Cirith Ungol]]. He then warned Frodo and Sam of the evil of that place.<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Gollum at the Forbidden Pool.jpg|thumb|Ted Nasmith - ''Gollum at the Forbidden Pool'']]<br />
Frodo, Sam, and Gollum left Faramir and began crossing the pass of Cirith Ungol in the border-mountains of the [[Ephel Dúath]]. Gollum visited the great spider [[Shelob]], because he was planning to betray the Hobbits to her and then get the Ring for himself. When he returned the Hobbits were asleep. The sight of Frodo sleeping nearly moved Gollum to repent. However, Sam woke up and spoke harshly to Gollum, and all hope of redemption was lost. Gollum followed through with his plan and led Frodo and Sam into [[Shelob's Lair]]. For this service to Shelob, the Orcs of Cirith Ungol knew Gollum as "Her Sneak".<br />
Just as Frodo warned him, Gollum's betrayal of his oath ultimately led to his undoing, for Frodo and Sam escaped from Shelob's lair and came against all odds to the volcano [[Orodruin]], or Mount Doom. Gollum followed them all the way, seeking a chance to surprise them and take the Ring. When Frodo and Sam had almost reached their destination, he attacked, but failed to get the Ring. Sam, who had hated Gollum on sight, tried to bring himself to kill him, but relented out of sheer pity and disgust, turning his back on the beaten creature.<br />
<br />
Moments later, Frodo was standing on the edge of the [[Cracks of Doom|Crack of Doom]], but, unwilling to destroy the Ring, claimed it for himself and put it on. Then Gollum attacked again. The two fought whilst Frodo was invisible and finally Gollum bit off Frodo's finger.<br />
<br />
Here Frodo's kindness in sparing Gollum's life was rewarded, for Gollum then teetered on the edge of the great pit, lost his balance and fell in, taking the Ring and finger with him with a last cry of "Preciouss!". Had Gollum not lived to play this final part, there would have been a good chance that Sauron would have regained the Ring, as he knew where Frodo was as soon as he put the Ring on.<br />
<br />
==Appearance==<br />
[[File:Peter Xavier Price - The Stairs of Cirith Ungol.jpg|left|thumb|185px|[[Peter Xavier Price]] - ''The Stairs of Cirith Ungol'']]<br />
Sméagol was a Hobbit, but he spent long centuries (thanks to the Ring) in darkness and damp, influenced by its evil power. It is possible that thanks to his hardy Hobbitish nature that he was not reduced to a [[Wraiths|wraith]].<ref><br />
{{webcite|author=Stan Brown|website=FAQ of the Rings|articleurl=http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-GollumWraith|articlename=Why hadn’t Gollum turned into a wraith long ago?}}</ref> However, he was reduced to a small, extremely thin and wiry person, with scrawny neck, pale skin, flat feet, long thin hands with clammy fingers, and large pale eyes that seemed to glow. His sense of sight, as well as his hearing and smelling, were very good, due to the time he spent underground.<br />
<br />
He could move and climb silently like a spider, and although he had only six teeth left,<ref>{{HM|H}}</ref> he could give deep bites, even able to bite off Frodo's finger.<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
Sméagol was the most inquisitive and curious-minded of his community. He was an inquisitive Hobbit who was interested in roots and beginnings. He owed [[#Etymology|his name]] to his interest in roots and deep pools; he burrowed and tunnelled under trees, plants, and mounds. <br />
<br />
During his centuries of loneliness and under the Ring's influence, he developed a sort of multiple personality: his evil personality was a slave to the Ring and would kill for it, overwhelming his former self, who still vaguely remembered things like friendship and love. Not having anyone else to speak to, he often quarrelled with himself. Gollum both loved and hated the Ring and himself. He often referred both to the Ring and himself as "my Preciiouss", perhaps confusing the two entities.<ref name=guide/> <br />
[[File:Mariët Theune - The Crack of Doom.jpg|thumb|right|Mariët Theune - ''The Crack of Doom'']]<br />
Years later, [[Samwise Gamgee]] would name the good personality "Slinker" (for his fawning, eager-to-please demeanour), and the bad personality "Stinker".<br />
<br />
Other aspects of the Ring's corruption was the aversion to all living creatures, especially the [[Elves]] and all things Elven. The [[Elven rope]] burnt his skin, and [[lembas]] tasted like dust to him and choked him.<br />
<br />
Sméagol, as a Hobbit, was perhaps good at heart, and his killing was entirely the Ring's doing. But it's also likely that Sméagol was harboring dark thoughts to begin with. Their argument bases on several points, including...<br />
# The sight of the Ring at the [[Council of Elrond]] or at many points in the journey of the Fellowship did not cause anyone to suddenly murder someone else.<br />
# It is possible for Hobbits to be evil; for instance, [[Ted Sandyman]] and [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]].<br />
#Bilbo was corrupted far more slowly by the Ring because his adventures with it began with an act of mercy, while Gollum began his with murder.<ref name=shadow>{{FR|Shadow}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
[[File:Turner Mohan - The Ringbearers.jpg|thumb|left|Turner Mohan - ''The Ringbearers'']]<br />
Sméagol's (pron. {{IPA|[ˈsmæ͡ɑːɣoɫ]}}) name is [[Old English]] one, from ''sméah'', and adjective meaning "''creeping in, penetrating''". It is etymologically related to the word [[smials]]. This title was also applied by the Anglo-Saxons to the Biblical Cain, from the story of Cain's murder of his brother Abel in Genesis. This draws a clear connection between the two.<br />
<br />
Sméagol is the translation of an actual [[Westron]] name ''[[Trahald]]''. The meaning of which was "burrowing, worming in" or "apt to creep into a hole". In both [[Westron]] and Old English, Sméagol's name is related to [[Smaug]]'s: Smaug's name in "true [[Dalish]]" was ''[[Trāgu]]'', and the ''Trah-'' stem in Trahald and Trâgu is thus an analogue of the Germanic stem present in both Sméagol and Smaug.<br />
<br />
[[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] explained in his "[[Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings]]" the origin of the name ''Sméagol'' in the lemma on [[smials]]:<br />
{{quote|'''Smials'''. A word peculiar to hobbits (not Common Speech), meaning 'burrow'; leave unchanged. It is a form that the Old English word '''smygel''' 'burrow' might have had, if it had survived. The same element appears in Gollum's real name, '''Sméagol'''.}}<br />
<br />
The name [[Smaug]] which means "squeezed through a hole" is thus related.<ref>{{HM|L}}, [[Letter 31]]</ref><br />
<br />
===Pronunciation===<br />
{{Pronounce|Anglo-Saxon - Sméagol.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
In both the 1981 BBC radio adaptation and in Peter Jackson's films ''Sméagol'' is pronounced as "SMEE-gol", although the placement of the acute accent suggests that the correct pronunciation is "SMAY-uh-gol". On the other hand, in [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s recordings of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' he also pronounced it "SMEE-gol" or "SMEE-AH-GOL", suggesting that ''éa'' should either be pronounced as a long "i"-sound or as a diphthong ''ea'', and not as two distinct vowels "e" and "a". Tolkien had a habit in his writing to put diacritics in varying places, as can also be seen in the name ''[[Eärendil]]'', which also occurs spelt ''Ëarendil''.<br />
<br />
==Other versions of the Legendarium==<br />
In the first edition of ''[[The Hobbit]]'', Gollum did not appear quite as wretched or as bound to the Ring. Tolkien revised this characterisation to fit the concept of the Ruling Ring developed during the writing of ''The Lord of the Rings''. Tolkien then explained the version given in the first edition as a lie that Bilbo made up to tell the [[Thorin and Company|Dwarves]] and [[Gandalf]].<ref name="Christensen">[[Bonniejean Christensen]], [[Jared Lobdell]] (ed.), "Gollum's Character Transformation in ''The Hobbit''", published in ''[[A Tolkien Compass]]'', pages 7-26</ref><br />
<br />
In ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', it is mentioned that [[the One Ring]] was found "ere the Kings failed in Gondor". This can mean that originally, Gollum's age was intended to be considerably more than six hundred years (further reinforced by certain places in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' like Gollum referring to tales about an uncorrupted [[Minas Ithil]] or Gandalf comparing his people to "fathers of the fathers of the [[Stoors]]"). In fact it seems likely that Sauron leaving the Mirkwood in 2063 T.A. and some Hobbits settling there after that are details added for the purpose of making the smaller age possible; perhaps in order to make it possible for Gollum and the other characters to have the same language.<br />
<br />
==Inspiration==<br />
[[John Garth]] has suggested that the character of Gollum carries echoes of the "night-haunting, man-eating" [[Ogres|ogre]] [[Wikipedia:Grendel|Grendel]] in ''[[Beowulf (disambiguation)|Beowulf]]''.<ref>{{webcite|author=[[John Garth]]|articleurl=http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2014/05/j-r-r-tolkien-beowulf-one-mans-passion-threshold-between-myth-and-reality|articlename=J R R Tolkien's Beowulf: one man's passion for the threshold between myth and reality|dated=29 May 2014|website=[http://www.newstatesman.com/ newstatesman.com]|accessed=29 May 2014}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
{{Gallery<br />
|title=Pictures of adaptations of Gollum<br />
|height=150<br />
|width=200<br />
|lines=3<br />
|File:The Hobbit (1966 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (1966 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1966 film)]]<br />
|File:The Hobbit (1977 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Gollum.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]<br />
|File:David T. Wenzel - Gollum.jpg|[[The Hobbit (comic book)|''The Hobbit'' (comic book), 1989]]<br />
|File:The Hobbit (2003) Gollum.JPG|[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings- The Treason of Isengard - Concept art Gollum.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Treason of Isengard]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Gollum poster.jpg|[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King - Sméagol2.jpg|As Sméagol in [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]<br />
|File:Gollum1 viv lotr.JPG|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]<br />
|File:The Lord of the Rings Online - Gollum.jpg|''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br />
|File:Lego - Gollum poster.png|Gollum as a ''[[Lego]] mini figure''<br />
|File:Guardians of Middle-earth - Gollum.png|''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''<br />
}}<br />
===Films===<br />
'''1977: [[The Hobbit (1977 film)|''The Hobbit'' (1977 film)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is a frog-like green creature, voiced by [[Brother Theodore]]. Here, his "Gollum" noise sounds like muttering instead of swallowing.<br />
<br />
'''1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is depicted as a skinny, dark grey creature, voiced by [[Peter Woodthorpe]]. <br />
<br />
'''1980: [[The Return of the King (1980 film)|''The Return of the King'' (1980 film)]]:'''<br />
:Brother Theodore reprised his role from the earlier [[Rankin/Bass]] production. Some footage from ''The Hobbit'' was reused to introduce the viewer to the story. <br />
<br />
'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is a CGI-motion capture creature voiced by actor [[Andy Serkis]]. He is barely glimpsed in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', where he is voiced by [[Dominic Monaghan]] in absence of Serkis. Gollum becomes a central character in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]]''. The groundbreaking CGI character was built around Serkis's voice, movements and expressions, sometimes by using a motion capture suit which recorded his movements and applied them to the digital character, and sometimes by the more laborious process of digitally "painting out" Serkis's image and replacing it with Gollum's. In one such shot in ''The Two Towers'', Serkis' real spittle can be seen emerging from Gollum's mouth.<br />
<br />
:In ''The Return of the King'' Serkis himself appears in a flashback scene as Sméagol before his degeneration into Gollum. This scene was originally earmarked for ''The Two Towers'' but held back because it was felt that audiences would relate better to the original Sméagol once they were more familiar with who he became. The decision to include this scene meant that Gollum's face had to be redesigned for the second and third movies so that it would more closely resemble Serkis'.<br />
<br />
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Andy Serkis]] reprised his role as Gollum.<ref name="PJCasting1">{{webcite|author=[[Peter Jackson]]|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150168211921558|articlename=Production begins in New Zealand on The Hobbit|dated=20-March-2011|website=[http://www.facebook.com/ Facebook]|accessed=21-Dec-2011}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Radio series===<br />
'''1955: [[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1955 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The voice of Gollum is provided by [[Gerik Schjelderup]].<ref name="RT1723">Radio Times, Volume 133, No. 1723, [[16 November|November 16]], [[1956]]</ref><br />
<br />
'''1968: [[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The narrator refers to Gollum (voiced by [[Wolfe Morris]]) as "Galloom", even though Gollum himself manages to pronounce his name correctly. Gollum's role is based on that of the second edition of ''The Hobbit''.<ref>[[The Hobbit (1968 radio series)|''The Hobbit'' (1968 radio series)]], "[[Riddles in the Dark (episode)|Riddles in the Dark]]" <br />
</ref><br />
<br />
'''1979: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Gail Chugg]] provided the voice of Gollum.<br />
<br />
'''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum, again performed by [[Peter Woodthorpe]], has the first lines of the play (save [[Gerard Murphy|the narrator]]). He is described as "slimy and as dark than darkness".<ref>''[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)]], "[[The Long Awaited Party]]"</ref><br />
<br />
===Games===<br />
'''1982: ''[[The Hobbit (1982 video game)]]'''''<br />
:Gollum appears in the tunnels of the Misty Mountains. He will persistently speak riddles to Bilbo, and strangle him to death if he fails to answer them in time. However, if Bilbo puts the [[One Ring|Ring]] on, then Gollum will not be able to see him. He can also be killed by Bilbo or his companions, even though doing so would seriously conflict with established canon.<br />
'''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum, voiced by [[Quinton Flynn]], is seen thrice: first, in the introduction scene, he is stooping over his precious, dashing away from the camera. He is a creature in colour and clothing much like Jackson's version. He is briefly glimpsed again in [[Moria]], but not more than a dark shape with a green outline can be seen.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)]], "3 Passages"</ref> His most important role is in the final stages of the game: he can be seen atop several ridges, and can even be visited on a rock on the shores of [[Nen Hithoel]]. He throws a [[fish]], the "Xiphiidae", at "[[Aragorn|Ranger]]". This will become the most deadly weapon in the game, and replaces [[Andúril]] in the weapon slots.<ref>[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]], "Amon Hen"</ref> <br />
<br />
'''2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Gollum is accompanying Sam and Frodo during [[Osgiliath]] mission and the is the final boss of the game at the Crack of Doom. Unlike all other enemies of the game, he takes no damage from any attacks - instead the players must perform combinations to push him into lava below.<br />
<br />
'''2003: ''[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|Sierra's The Hobbit'']]:'''<br />
:Gollum appears in a cut scene after the level "Riddles in the Dark". Only Bilbo's last riddle - "What have I got in my pocket?" - is shown, after which Gollum spouts out all possible answers in one sentence rather than in three turns. Gollum is a dark grey, hobbit-like creature with seven spiky teeth, who walks on all fours like an ape would, and like his Rankin/Bass counterpart, his "Gollum" noise is a muttering instead of a swallowing. He is voiced by [[Daran Norris]].<ref>[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]], "Riddles in the Dark"</ref><br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a "Hero" unit for the Servants of the Enemy, used primarily for scout missions.<br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a "Hero" for the Mordor factions. His health is extremely low and his attacks extremely weak, but has value for the scout missions.<br />
<br />
'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br />
:In non-storyline battles, stealthed Gollum is roaming the map. If detected and killed, he drops The One Ring, which can give huge advantage to the side that gets it.<br />
<br />
'''2007: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is encountered thrice, though the player has yet to know his name. The first time he is met in southern [[Trollshaws]], where the player prevents him from attacking the baby of two Fishermen; the second time he is seen in southern Mirkwood, where the player must defeat the Orcs who attempts to capture him, the third time is on the Shores of Anduin, where the player has to make sure he does not fall prey to the spiders.<br />
<br />
'''2012: ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is a striker-type "guardian" with four abilities: ''Throttle'', ''My Precious'', ''Coward'' and ''We are starved''.<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.co.uk/guardians/gollum|articlename=''Guardians of Middle-earth'': Gollum|dated=|website=[http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.com/ ''Guardians of Middle-earth'' official website]|accessed=16 July 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
'''2014: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'':'''<br />
:Gollum is featured in the game.He is one of the supporting chaacters of the game.In the game, set between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, Gollum is searching for the One Ring and encounters Talion, the protagonist of the game and helps him in his Quest.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:Images of Gollum|Images of Gollum]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
<br />
*[http://lingwe.blogspot.se/2012/12/smeagol-whats-in-name.html Sméagol — what’s in a name?] by [[Jason Fisher]]<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
<br />
{{seq-start}}<br />
{{seq-head<br />
| race=hobbit<br />
| born=c. {{TA|2430}}<br />
| died=[[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Déagol]]<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=c. {{TA|2463}} - {{TA|2941|n}}<br />
| next=[[Bilbo Baggins]]<br />
}}<br />
{{seq<br />
| prev=[[Frodo Baggins]]<br />
| list=[[Ring-bearer]]<br />
| dates=briefly, [[25 March]], {{TA|3019}}<br />
| nvac=None<br />
| next=Ring destroyed<br />
}}<br />
{{seq-end}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Hobbit]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
[[Category:Evil]]<br />
[[Category:Hobbits]]<br />
[[Category:Ring-bearers]]<br />
[[Category:Stoors]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[de:Gollum]]<br />
[[fa:گالوم]]<br />
[[fi:Klonkku]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Jason_Connery&diff=291539Jason Connery2017-01-18T17:55:36Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Jason Joseph Connery''' ([[11 January|January 11]], [[1963]]) is a British actor, and the son of [[wikipedia:Sean Connery|Sean Connery]]. Jason Connery voiced Captain Carthedan and his [[Wraiths|wraith]] form [[Karsh]] the Whisperer in ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king|EA's The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king]]'' and a Ship Captain in ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]''. <br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
* '''[http://www.jasonconnery.com/home.htm Official website]'''<br />
* {{WP|Jason Connery}}<br />
* [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001064/ Jason Connery] at IMDb<br />
<br />
[[Category:Actors and actresses|Connery, Jason]]<br />
[[Category:British people|Connery, Jason]]<br />
[[Category:People by name|Connery, Jason]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Nurn&diff=291513Nurn2017-01-18T03:06:14Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Etymology */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{location<br />
| image=[[File:Mark Fisher - Nurn.gif|250px]]<br />
| name=Nurn<br />
| type=Region<br />
| location=Southern [[Mordor]]<br />
| inhabitants=[[Orcs]], [[Men]]<br />
| realms=[[Mordor]]<br />
| description=quite fertile, with the lake of [[Nurnen]] in the middle of it<br />
| othernames=<br />
| etymology=<br />
| events=<br />
| references=<br />
|}}<br />
'''Nurn''' was the name given to the southern regions of [[Mordor]], more fertile than [[Plateau of Gorgoroth|Gorgoroth]] in the north, in which the great inland [[Sea of Núrnen]] lay.<ref>{{FR|Map}}</ref> The people who inhabited Nurn were [[Men]] and there may have been prisoners of war there as well. These people were enslaved by [[Sauron]], working the soil around the sea of Nurn to feed Sauron's armies. <br />
<br />
After the [[War of the Ring]], King [[Aragorn|Elessar]] liberated the peoples of Nurn and gave them the land as their own. The southern region of Nurn probably escaped the destruction caused in northern Mordor by the eruption of [[Orodruin|Mount Doom]].<ref>{{RK|VI5}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Nurn'', appearing in the compound ''[[Sea of Núrnen#Etymology|Núrnen]]'' ("sad-water"), apparently means "sad" in [[Sindarin]].<ref>{{HM|RC}}, p. 457</ref><ref>{{UT|Index}}, ''Núrnen''</ref><br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptions===<br />
'''2014: [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]:'''<br />
:Nurn is featured in the game ''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor''.As to [Sea of Núrnen]] also, it's appearence is completely original, as this place had not appeared in any other adaption until then.<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Mordor]]<br />
[[Category:Regions]]<br />
[[Category:Sindarin locations]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Nurn]]<br />
[[fi:Nurn]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Sea_of_N%C3%BArnen&diff=291512Sea of Núrnen2017-01-18T03:04:34Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-more|Inland Sea|[[Inland Sea (disambiguation)]]}}<br />
The '''Sea of Núrnen''' also known as '''Lake Nurnen''' was an inland sea in [[Mordor]].<br />
<br />
The lake was fed by all four (unnamed) major water courses that traversed most of Mordor, before flowing into Nurnen.<ref>{{HM|Guide}}, entry "Nurnen"</ref><ref>{{FR|Map}}</ref><ref>[[General Map of Middle-earth]]</ref><br />
<br />
It held bitter water not suitable for drinking, but the area around it, [[Nurn]], was fertile enough (watered by a river system coming from the [[Ephel Dúath]]) to feed the entire armies of [[Sauron]].<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
<br />
''Núrnen'' is glossed as "sad-water".<ref>{{HM|UI}}, p. 457</ref><ref>{{UT|Index}}</ref> [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]] also suggested the form ''Nûrnen'' ("death, dead water"), and noted the related [[Sindarin]] word ''[[gurth|guru]]'' ("death").<ref>{{PE|17}}, p. 87</ref><br />
<br />
The name is commonly understood to be [[Sindarin]],<ref name=RC>{{HM|RC}}, p. 457</ref><Ref>{{webcite|author=[[David Giraudeau]]|articleurl=http://lambenore.free.fr/downloads.html|articlename=''Parma Eldalamberon'' 17: Sindarin Corpus (p. 45)|dated=|website=[http://lambenore.free.fr/index_eng.html Lambenórë.free.fr]|accessed=14 July 2011}}</ref><br />
<Ref>{{webcite|articleurl=http://www.tolkiendil.com/langues/english/i-lam_arth/compound_sindarin_names|articlename=Compound Sindarin Names in Middle-earth|dated=|website=[http://www.tolkiendil.com Tolkiendil.com]|accessed=21 July 2011}}</ref> consisting of the elements ''[[Nurn#Etymology|Nurn]]'' + ''[[nen]]'' ("water").<ref name=RC/><br />
<br />
==Commentary==<br />
In ''[[The Atlas of Middle-earth]]'', [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] assumed that the [[Sea of Rhûn]] and Sea of Núrnen were the remnants of the inland [[Sea of Helcar]]. The atlas was however published before ''[[The Peoples of Middle-earth]]'', where it was revealed that the [[Sea of Rhûn]] existed already in the [[First Age]], as an apparently different body of water than the Sea of Helcar.<br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptions===<br />
'''2014: [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]:'''<br />
:Sea of Núrnen is featured in the game ''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor''.It's appearence is completely original, as this place had not appeared in any other adaption until then.Queen Morwen, an important character of the game, is from this place.Also levels of this game set in this place.<br />
{{references}}<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Sea of Nurnen}}<br />
[[Category:Lakes]]<br />
[[Category:Mordor]]<br />
[[Category:Sindarin locations]]<br />
<br />
[[fr:/encyclo/geographie/eaux/mordor/mer_de_nurnen]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Saruman&diff=291511Saruman2017-01-18T02:32:08Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Portrayal in adaptations */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{sources}}<br />
{{maiar infobox<br />
| name=Saruman<br />
| image=[[File:John Howe - Saruman.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Saruman" by [[John Howe]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=Curumo, Curunír, the White, Ring-maker, Of many colours, [[Sharkey]]<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=Head of the [[White Council]]<br />
| location=[[Orthanc]]<br />
| affiliation=[[Istari]] (Wizards)<br/>[[White Council]]<br/>[[Sauron]]<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[3 November]] {{TA|3019}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Hobbiton]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=Tall<br />
| hair=White with strands of black<ref name="Voice">{{TT|Voice}}</ref><br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=White robes, shimmering with many colours<br />
| weapons=Staff<br/>Knife<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
{{pronounce|Quenya - Curumo.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
{{quote|[Saruman] is great among the Wise. He is the chief of my order and the head of the Council. His knowledge is deep, but his pride has grown with it, and he takes ill any meddling. The lore of the Elven-rings, great and small, is his province. He has long studied it, seeking the lost secrets of their making (....)|[[Gandalf]], ''[[The Shadow of the Past]]''}}<br />
'''Saruman the White''' ([[Third Age]] c. 1000 – 3019, existed in [[Middle-earth]] for 2019 years) was the first of the order of [[Wizards]] (or ''Istari'') who came to Middle-earth as Emissaries of the [[Valar]] in the [[Third Age]]. He was the leader of the [[White Council]]. In [[Sindarin]] his name was '''Curunír''', which meant "Man of Skill".<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Origins===<br />
The [[Ainur]] existed before [[Arda]] was created. [[Maiar]] were angelic creatures of lower order than the [[Valar]]. [[Curumo]] and [[Mairon]] were powerful Maiar of [[Aulë]], until the latter fell and became [[Sauron]].<ref>{{S|Vala}}</ref><br />
<br />
In [[Valinor]], a council was called by [[Manwë]]. This was likely in the middle of the Second Age, shortly after the creation of the [[Rings of Power]]. It was decided to send five [[Wizards|emissaries]] to Middle-earth. These should be "mighty, peers of Sauron, yet forgo might, and clothe themselves in flesh" — Istari, or Wizards. One of those who went was '''''[[Curumo]]''''' (later in [[Sindarin]] ''[[Curunír]]'', or in [[Westron]] ''Saruman'').<ref name=Istari>{{UT|Istari}}</ref><br />
<br />
Saruman was one of those who volunteered, whereas the last one, ''[[Gandalf|Olórin]]'', (later Gandalf) was commanded by Manwë to go. Saruman's jealousy of Gandalf began even here, when [[Varda]] said of Gandalf, who went as the third Istar that he was "not the third". Saruman was charged to take [[Aiwendil]] with him to please [[Yavanna]], which he did not wish to do, and this led to contempt for the latter Wizard.<ref name=Istari/><br />
<br />
===Arrival in Middle-earth===<br />
Saruman arrived alone in a ship at [[Mithlond]] (the [[Grey Havens]]) in [[Lindon]] around the year 1000 of the [[Third Age]]<ref name="AppTA"/>, and only [[Círdan]] knew his identity and his origin. <br />
<br />
He went into the [[East]] of Middle-earth, as did the two [[Blue Wizards]]. After one and a half millennia he returned to the West, just as Sauron's power was growing again in [[Dol Guldur]].<br />
<br />
When the [[White Council]] was formed around {{TA|2463}}<ref name="AppTA"/>, Saruman was appointed its leader. Even then, he had begun to sense the resurgence of Sauron and to envy and desire his power, and especially his [[The One Ring|One Ring]]. Coincidentally, in that same year the One Ring was found by the creature [[Gollum]]<ref name="AppTA"/>, drawing the [[Dark Lord]] closer to the conflict that would eventually prove Saruman's undoing.<br />
<br />
===Chief of the White Council===<br />
[[File:Angus McBride - Saruman.gif|thumb|[[Angus McBride]] - ''Saruman'']]<br />
When [[Saruman]] returned from his travels into the east of [[Middle-earth]], he spent years in [[Minas Tirith]] examining its archives. It is possible that there he surmised that a [[Palantíri|''palantír'']] would still be located in [[Orthanc]].<ref>{{UT|Palantiri}}</ref> He offered to make Isengard his home and to command the defences of the West. This was welcomed by King [[Fréaláf]] of [[Rohan]] and [[Ruling Steward|Steward]] [[Beren (Steward of Gondor)|Beren]] of [[Gondor]] alike. In {{TA|2759}}, Saruman was given the [[Key of Orthanc]] in the ring of [[Isengard]] his abode, hoping that he would prove an important ally.<ref name="SV">{{S|V}}</ref> There he became important in the defence of the free lands of the West. In Orthanc he came upon the [[Orthanc-stone]], one of the seven seeing stones, but kept it secret and hidden, particularly from the White Council. He would later betray the Council by concealing his use of it. <br />
<br />
In {{TA|2851}}, the White Council met and Gandalf revealed that the evil presence in Dol Guldur was indeed Sauron and that he had returned, and urged an attack there. Saruman however believed that Sauron would be useful in his quest: allowing Sauron to build up his strength, the One Ring would reveal itself, and Saruman hoped to have sufficient strength to seize it first himself until that event. With this strategy in mind, Saruman overruled Gandalf. It soon became clear that Saruman desired to possess [[the One Ring]] himself.<ref name="AppTA">{{App|TA}}</ref> <br />
<br />
He soon found that Sauron had more knowledge of the possible location of the One Ring than he expected, and in {{TA|2941}} he finally consented to an [[Attack on Dol Guldur]] against Sauron at which point Sauron retreated to [[Mordor]].<br />
[[File:Angus McBride - Dol Guldur.jpg|thumb|left|Angus McBride - ''Dol Guldur'']]<br />
In {{TA|2953}}, the [[Wise]] gathered once more to debate about the [[Rings of Power]]. Saruman quieted the Council claiming to have the knowledge that the One Ring was lost forever in the [[Belegaer]]. Following their final meeting, Saruman took Isengard for his own and fortified it. Saruman, jealous and afraid of Gandalf, set spies to watch all his movements; thus he discovered the existence of the [[Shire]] and noted Gandalf's interest in it, and started sending agents in [[Bree]] and the [[Southfarthing]].<ref name="AppTA"/> As [[Lord of Isengard]], Saruman began to bring trouble to Rohan by aiding its enemies.<ref name="AppMark">{{App|Mark}}</ref> Saruman's corruption was complete when, in ''circa'' {{TA|3000}}, he used the [[Orthanc-stone|''palantír'' of Orthanc]] and was enticed by [[Sauron]].<ref name="AppTA"/<br />
<br />
Sauron declared himself openly. In Mordor, he established contact with Saruman through the [[Ithil-stone]] his minions had captured from [[Minas Ithil]]. Through his jealousy towards Gandalf and his ever-growing pride and arrogance, and through the use of the ''<br />
palantír'', wrestling in thought with the Enemy, Saruman became a servant of Sauron's will (although unintentionally, as his hopes were to gain the One Ring for himself).<br />
<br />
===War of the Ring===<br />
At about this time, in an attempt to control [[Rohan]], Saruman bought the allegiance of King [[Théoden]]'s chief advisor, [[Gríma]], who then counselled the ailing king to do nothing about the steady resurgence of Sauron's armies. Saruman and Gríma's treachery would have crippled Rohan's military might, had not [[Gandalf]] interfered a year later and revealed to Théoden his right-hand man's true designs, healing the old king and revitalizing his political and military rule. <br />
<br />
He had sent spies to negotiate the purchase of "[[pipe-weed|leaf]]" from [[the Shire]], in preparation for the war, and also learn of any [[Hobbits]] who had departed recently in hopes of finding out who possessed [[the One Ring]].<ref name="UT10">{{UT|10}}, "Concerning Gandalf, Saruman, and the Shire"</ref> <br />
<br />
Saruman did not reveal his true intentions until Gandalf presented him with the discovery and location of the One Ring. On [[10 July]], {{TA|3018}}, Gandalf arrived at Isengard.<ref name="AppGreat">{{App|Great}}</ref> Saruman demanded that Gandalf submit to him and Sauron or fail. Saruman then stood forth as '''Saruman of Many Colours''', and when Gandalf refused to join with him, he held him captive in Isengard. <br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers - Gríma and Saruman.jpg|thumb|left|Saruman commanding his forces from Orthanc]]<br />
It must have been during Gandalf's captivity in Orthanc that Saruman began to build his army of [[Orcs]], [[Dunlendings]], and [[Uruk-hai]], since Gandalf came to an as yet undestroyed Isengard. From the pinnacle of the tower Gandalf could see that Saruman was gathering an army of [[orcs]] and [[wolves]] in his pits and forges.<ref name="FRCouncil">{{FR|Council}}</ref> One can speculate that if matters had developed a little more slowly, his puppet Gríma would have gained full control over Rohan, and the [[Rohirrim]] would have been enslaved or destroyed.<br />
<br />
Saruman's plans likely failed because he, like Sauron, was forced to reveal his hand early by Gandalf's subsequent escape, and therefore he had little time to perfect his plans. As Saruman considered himself "unfallen", he honestly believed he had a chance of converting Gandalf to his side, and felt honestly betrayed by Gandalf when he was refused. <br />
<br />
Gandalf later escaped, and so Saruman's treachery became known to the rest of the White Council when Gandalf reported it during the subsequent [[Council of Elrond]].<br />
<br />
Saruman soon also betrayed his new master Sauron by lying to the [[Witch-king]] when he arrived at Isengard. Sauron had sent the [[Nazgûl]] searching for [[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]], who had found the One Ring years before, and the Shire, his home. Saruman pretended to know nothing about the Shire. But the Lord of Morgul and his company did not have the strength to assault the Ring of Isengard. Saruman told them that he believed Gandalf knew the whereabouts of the Ring and the Riders departed. <br />
<br />
In September of {{TA|3018}} the Nazgûl captured one of his [[the Shire|Shire]] [[Squint-eyed Southerner|spies]] who told the [[Witch-king]] everything, betraying Saruman, and exposing Saruman's double treachery. They also seized some maps and information about the Shire and [[Baggins]].<ref name="UT10"/> Caught now between both sides as a known traitor to both, Saruman put all efforts into obtaining [[the One Ring]] for himself.<ref name="UTHunt">{{UT|Hunt}}</ref><br />
<br />
The failure to capture the Ring at [[Emyn Muil]] further ruined Saruman's plans, as he was revealed as a traitor to Mordor now as well.<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - The Wrath of the Ents.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''The Wrath of the Ents'']]<br />
Saruman implemented a strategy of attacking [[Rohan]], endeavouring to kill the King's son [[Théodred]], sending spies to waylay [[Frodo Baggins]] on his flight from the Shire, and dispatching raiding parties on likely routes a company of the Ring might take to Gondor. Ironically, one of these parties captured [[Peregrin Took]] and [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] and transported them to [[Fangorn Forest]] in time to mobilize the [[Ents]]. Gandalf also suspected Saruman had found (and destroyed) the remains of [[Isildur]], who had worn the Ring before it had been lost.<br />
<br />
Saruman's Shire network failed to capture Frodo Baggins, Gandalf rallied Rohan to victory, [[Éomer]] stopped his only partially successful raiding party, and control of Isengard was lost to the [[Ents]]. Aware he was utterly defeated, Saruman briefly considered repenting for his deeds, but at the last moment could not go through with it. Whether he had hope he could escape, whether he was too proud to surrender to Gandalf, or whether he simply feared Sauron's retribution for his treachery, Saruman refused to leave the confines of his fortress. Saruman made a final attempt to woo Théoden and Gandalf to his cause but failed: his staff was broken and he was dismissed from the order of the Istari.<br />
<br />
Left out of the final stages of the War of the Ring, he eventually managed to convince his captors, the Ents, into letting him leave Isengard, as apparently the magic of his voice still remained. <br />
<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Saruman is Overtaken.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Saruman is Overtaken'']]On their way, they were confronted by Gandalf, [[Celeborn]], [[Galadriel]] and the Hobbits on their way to northern [[Dunland]]. They found them as traveling beggars and Saruman kicked Gríma to move on, as he exclaimed how he hated his master. Gandalf told Gríma that he was free to leave him but he did not reply. As Saruman was considered powerless, there was little concern for his escape.<ref>{{RK|Partings}}</ref> He then went to the Shire, which his agent [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]] (undisturbed by events elsewhere) had brought under control. He established himself in [[Hobbiton]] and spent his final days as a small-time thug lord whom his [[ruffians]] called '''''Sharkey'''''. But even this operation fell apart after Frodo and [[Samwise Gamgee]] returned; he was eventually betrayed and killed by his own servant Gríma on [[3 November]], {{TA|3019}}.<br />
<br />
Saruman, who was a Maia, had lost his shape with his "death". As a discorporated spirit, he should have been called to [[Mandos]], but a wind came from the [[West]] and pushed it away. Apparently his spirit was left naked, powerless and wandering in Middle-earth; perhaps not unlike Sauron after the One Ring was destroyed.<br />
<br />
==Characteristics==<br />
In appearance, Saruman was as an old man with black hair. At the end of the Third Age, his hair and beard had turned mostly white — he had only black hairs about his lips and ears. He was tall, his face was long, and his eyes were deep and dark. He would appear in a white cloak, a habit he later changed into a cloak that changed colours as he moved.<br />
<br />
He was not actually a [[Men|Man]], or even an [[Elves|Elf]] (as Men often suspected), but a [[Maiar|Maia]] clothed in flesh — an [[Istari|Istar]] ((see ''Origins'' below). As such, he was immortal and extremely powerful, yet had limits on how far these powers could be used. His two most salient powers were his knowledge and his voice.<br />
<br />
=== Powers ===<br />
Knowledge of the "deep arts" (or magic, such as it is in Middle-earth) was of particular interest to Saruman, especially when relating to power&mdash;such as the [[Rings of Power]] and the far seeing ''[[palantíri]]''. He was also deeply learned in ancient lore regarding powerful kingdoms such as [[Númenor]], [[Gondor]], and [[Moria]]. <br />
<br />
His voice and speech were extremely convincing, more powerful than mere rhetoric. When he focused this power on a person or a group of people, he could sway their hearts, plant fears and sow lies as he pleased. According to the stature of the listener, this spell could last as long as the speech did, or it could take root in them and last forever. Saruman's voice was so powerful that he was able to convince the [[Witch-king]] that he knew nothing of the One-Ring or the Shire. His voice was not hypnotic, however, rather it was persuasive; and the real danger the voice posed to the listener was not them falling into a trance, but agreeing with it. <br />
<br />
Aside from his voice, Saruman has other subtle abilities such as giving great speed and motivation to his orcs at a distance and setting his will against all those in his dominion that might oppose him. Aragorn takes note of this ability while tracking the party of orcs holding Merry and Pippin hostage. Saruman also seems to be able to move around totally unheard by others, as there are numerous examples of him using this ability. Several examples include his sneaking up on [[Aragorn]], [[Gimli]] and [[Legolas]]'s camp in [[The Riders of Rohan]], his wholly unheard entrance in [[The Voice of Saruman]] and his quiet but sudden appearance to the hobbits in [[The Scouring of the Shire]]. <br />
<br />
Other powers include knowledge of machinery and chemistry, probably separable from explicit magic (for instance, the "blasting fire" employed by his [[Uruk-hai]] army in the battle of [[Helm's Deep]], was probably some kind of explosive). Machinery and engines characterized both his fortified [[Isengard]] and his altered [[the Shire|Shire]]. In this, he probably sought to emulate [[Sauron]]. His science also extended to biological areas. He is believed to have crossbred Men and Orcs, creating a new race of Orcs unafraid of daylight. His mannish spies in [[Bree]] were said to have Orc blood. He also employed birds in his service, although this might also be attributed to [[Radagast]] the Brown, ordering them to report to [[Orthanc]], Saruman's stronghold.<br />
<br />
Being regarded as more powerful than [[Gandalf]] (at least before Gandalf's "rebirth"), it's fair to assume he would also wield explicit magic similar to Gandalf, such as artificial light, locking spells, creating fire, etc.<br />
<br />
Saruman, in his desire to imitate Sauron, attemped to forge for himself a Ring of Power. This he wore during the War of the Ring which he revealed when he called himself "Saruman the Ring-maker". He had great knowledge and lore of the magic rings created by Sauron and by the Elven-smiths, though at this time the full art of ring-making was lost and known only to Sauron and so Saruman's knowledge of the craft was incomplete. It is assumed that Saruman's Ring was the equivalent of one of the lesser rings in power and the any details of this power is not mentioned. It is also assumed that it too lost its power, if it had any, when the One Ring was destroyed, since Saruman's craft of ring-making was still based on Sauron's. When Gandalf was given Narya, the Ring of Fire, Saruman learned of the gift and resented it. This may be another reason why Saruman desired to have a ring of his own.<br />
<br />
===Personality===<br />
Saruman resembled Gandalf not only in appearance, but originally also somewhat in character, but unlike Gandalf, Saruman was proud. He saw himself as the most powerful of the Istari, expressing clear contempt for Radagast the Brown. Saruman was no fool (though he saw Radagast as one); he realized Gandalf's power, and eventually came to see him as an equal, and later as a superior, much to his distress. He became jealous of Gandalf, eventually convincing himself that Gandalf was scheming against him, which justified his own scheming against Gandalf and the rest of the White Council.<br />
<br />
Saruman likely was true to his mission in the beginning, and actually believed in working to stop Sauron, but his pride and later arrogance (as well as his jealousy towards Gandalf) turned him into a traitor to the cause he had once served. Saruman's betrayal was not sudden, but slowly grew over time, until at last he had convinced himself that he could not have taken any other path, and that it was too late now to repent. This false belief kept him from taking his last chance at redemption, and because he must have realized this he only became more bitter, blaming Gandalf more than anyone else for his own downfall.<br />
<br />
==Politics==<br />
<br />
===Men===<br />
Saruman "went mostly among men". He always sought power, and it lay in the hands of the kingdoms of Men.<br />
<br />
No records speak of his earliest journeys into the east; after his return he became a servant of [[Gondor]], receiving the keys to Orthanc from Beren as its warden. When Gondor weakened, he claimed Orthanc for his own without any formal declaration (or objection from Gondor), yet remained nominally an ally of Gondor and of Rohan. <br />
<br />
When he turned to treachery, Saruman employed men mainly from [[Dunland]], and agents from other lands, turning old grudges into fuel for new hatred. The Dunlendings were enticed with the old stories that they had once lived in [[Calenardhon]] before the ''Strawheads''. The Dunlendings became his soldiers and it also seems probable that he used some of them to create [[Half-orcs]]. <br />
<br />
Gríma Wormtongue played a vital role in Saruman's plans: with Saruman's council Gríma began to weaken the king, estranging him from his other councilors and even his own kin, until Gríma had in effect become the leader of Rohan.<br />
<br />
===Elves=== <br />
Saruman was once on good terms with the Elves, and was voted in as the leader of the White Council, a group of Elves and Istari united against Sauron. <br />
<br />
Saruman knew that Gandalf had been given the third Elvish ring [[Narya]] by [[Círdan]] the Shipwright. This nurtured his jealousy of Gandalf and his resentment towards the Elves. <br />
<br />
Saruman had little use for, or interest in, the Elves, who were declining and their lands were few and secretive; although they wielded marvellous powers and two Rings of Power, they were not useful nor accessible for Saruman's ambitions. Also, they succumbed less easily than other races to manipulation. <br />
<br />
Even though Isengard lay very close to [[Lothlórien]], Saruman had very little or no contact with it. Saruman never trusted [[Galadriel]] and he accused her of scheming for Gandalf at his expense.<ref>{{RK|Partings}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Orcs===<br />
Saruman probably drew his original strength of Orcs from tribes in the [[Misty Mountains]], and perhaps from Moria Orcs. He made use of [[Wargs|Warg]]-mounted Orcs. <br />
<br />
He also bred Orcs in Isengard, eventually creating crossbreeds of Orcs and Men (probably [[Dunlendings]]). This programme apparently also involved feeding these Orcs Man-flesh.<br />
<br />
His [[Uruk-hai]] army displayed great discipline and fierce loyalty, in addition to the other improvements such as height, strength, endurance and resistance to sunlight. There also appears to have been middle stages between Men and the Uruk-hai, Men with varying degrees of Orkish appearance. These were reported by Pippin and Merry to have been part of Saruman's regular army, but were not Uruk-hai, since the hobbits would have recognized these from their earlier capture. <br />
<br />
Saruman's servants called him "[[Sharkey]]" both in Isengard and later in the Shire.<br />
<br />
===Ents/Trees===<br />
Saruman made contact with the Ents in [[Fangorn Forest]] shortly after he settled in [[Isengard]]. The oldest of the Ents, [[Treebeard]] received him and gave him free access to the forest.<br />
<br />
Saruman also consulted with Treebeard, learning much old lore that the Ents would have remembered from ancient times. Saruman did not return this favour, but only listened. <br />
<br />
The Ents saw Saruman's treachery early, and became very concerned, primarily with Saruman's Orcs felling trees on the edge of Fangorn for use in the furnaces of Isengard&mdash;or sometimes for no reason at all. <br />
<br />
The Ents also appear to have had a sense of order, how things should be, that Saruman encroached upon. The crossbreeding of Men and Orcs particularly alarmed them, out of proportion to other concerns enemies of Saruman might have had. Also alarming was the pure fact of his treachery — the Istari were supposed to have a special responsibility. <br />
<br />
Saruman used the Ents and the Fangorn forest without concern for the consequences. He clearly misjudged the Ents' abilities and will to act. This might not have been as incautious as it seemed, since major contributing factors to the Ent's actions were advice and requests from Gandalf, and concern about the rising power of Sauron (and their wish to support the front-line troops of the war, Rohan and Gondor). <br />
<br />
Saruman clearly had the ability to understand the minds of the Ents when he found it useful. He managed to talk Treebeard into setting him free from Orthanc by pushing just the right buttons — Ents dislike the concept of caging up any creature.<br />
<br />
===Hobbits===<br />
The race of [[Hobbits]] and their lands seemed too insignificant to interest Saruman: until he took notice of Gandalf's special concern for them. Studying Gandalf made him focus gradually more and more on the Hobbits and The Shire. For a period he actually travelled there in secret, mapping out the lands. Gandalf was aware of this, but at this point only amused.<br />
<br />
He began smoking pipe-weed (a habit of the Hobbits that Gandalf had picked up), also in secret. His demand for tobacco opened up trading between The Shire and Isengard, and the power his money could wield there and the corruption it could cause began to fascinate him. Some of his agents went in secret, and some were known to Gandalf and the [[Rangers of the North|Rangers]].<br />
<br />
His anger towards the Hobbits may possibly stem from the attention Gandalf showed them. It certainly strengthened immensely when he discovered that the Hobbits had "conspired" with Gandalf to keep [[the One Ring]] from him.<br />
<br />
This, and the sudden urgency caused by the [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]]' hunt for the Ring-bearer from The Shire to Rivendell, made him increase his activity in the area, leading to a build-up of power that would lead to virtual conquest of The Shire. <br />
<br />
He might also later have blamed the ruin of Isengard by the Ents on [[Peregrin Took]] and [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]], who clearly catalysed events. <br />
<br />
This all came together when Saruman escaped from the Ents and retired to The Shire and his thug regime in place there. It appears he immediately switched the focus of this operation to wanton destruction: pollution, murder, fire, chopping down trees for no reason, a last blow against Hobbits and Gandalf.<br />
<br />
At his final utter defeat by [[Battle of Bywater|a Hobbit uprising]], his life was spared even when he tried to assassinate [[Frodo Baggins]]. At this moment he actually conceded a short-lived respect to Frodo.<br />
<br />
===Valar/Maiar/Wizards=== <br />
Saruman was supposedly eager to go to Middle-earth, against Manwë's counsel. After his 'death' he was apparently barred from returning to Valinor, and therefore was denied reincarnation and condemned to waft away and disappear like so much smoke. Sauron, in origin a Maia of Aulë like Saruman, amazed and frightened him. During the height of his arrogance Saruman thought to supplant Sauron as the Dark Lord, but in the end he found himself meddling with a spirit of far greater power than himself.<br />
<br />
Saruman grudgingly brought with him Radagast as a companion from Valinor, at the request of [[Yavanna]], yet still managed to arrive alone, and first. Shortly after, he went into the East with the two [[Blue Wizards]], and later returned alone. There he may have wrought many great works to diminish the influence of the Enemy.<br />
<br />
Radagast, even though Saruman scorned him, served Saruman very usefully (and wholly unintentionally, as he admitted "he had just the wit to play the part I set him"&mdash;that of persuading Gandalf to come to Isengard). Radagast also sent birds to Saruman and Gandalf to report the different happenings in Middle-earth. <br />
<br />
Saruman had always been jealous of Gandalf, and knew that he was keeping secrets from him, such as his suspicion about [[The One Ring|Bilbo's Ring]] and [[Narya]], secret.<br />
<br />
Gandalf also suspected Saruman of plotting to gain the One Ring for himself, and hinted at this at a meeting of the White Council. Gandalf blew nine small smoke rings and one great one that wavered a bit, seeming almost palpable, and yet blew away, symbolizing (almost prophetic of) Saruman's failure in achieving the One for himself. <br />
<br />
In general, Saruman must have viewed Gandalf as his only peer, and as such to be feared and treated with (although not necessarily shown) respect. He always kept a watchful eye open for Gandalf's doings, and actually picked up the habit of smoking pipe-weed by sending out spies tailing Gandalf to the Shire. <br />
<br />
When matters came to a head, Saruman sought to make Gandalf an ally in his plans. This was probably not just out of practical politics, but also of respect and a sense of companionship and shared destiny. And possibly out of hope, being daunted by the proposition of becoming Sauron's servant alone. <br />
<br />
Nevertheless, Saruman exercised more power than Gandalf, even with the ring Narya, as became clear when he placed Gandalf under arrest at the pinnacle of Orthanc. The text does not make it clear whether Saruman lost power or whether Gandalf gained power, but when Gandalf returned as "Gandalf the White", he could summon Saruman at his will, forcibly keep him in his presence, and finally break Saruman's staff (with whatever implications that might have had for Saruman's powers). <br />
<br />
Saruman several times came very close to setting aside his pride and to asking Gandalf for pity and help. The closest call came when the [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]] (on their way to the Shire) arrived at Isengard while Gandalf still remained in captivity there. Saruman, realizing his predicament, actually went to seek Gandalf's pardon, only to find his erstwhile captive missing from the top of Orthanc.<br />
<br />
===Animals===<br />
Saruman had control over many birds, probably through Radagast. These spied for him and brought him news. In addition, the Orcs Saruman took in his armies had amongst them [[Wargs]], a sort of intelligent demon-wolf.<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Saruman'' is a [[Mannish]] translation of [[Quenya]] ''[[Curumo]]'', his original name in [[Valinor]] as a Maia; and [[Sindarin]] ''[[Curunír]]'' which is supposedly the same name (with the ending ''[[dîr|-ndîr]]'' "man"). All names mean "Skilled Man" or "Cunning One" (root ''[[curu]]'' "skill").<ref name=RC81>{{HM|RC}}, p. 81</ref><ref>{{webcite|author=[[Helge Fauskanger]]|articleurl=http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/quen-eng.htm|articlename=Quettaparma Quenyallo|website=Arda}}</ref><ref>{{webcite|author=[[Didier Willis]], ed.|articleurl=http://www.jrrvf.com/hisweloke/sindar/online/sindar/dict-sd-en.html|articlename=Hiswelókë's Sindarin dictionary|website=[http://www.jrrvf.com/hisweloke/ Hiswelókë]}}</ref><br />
<br />
''Saruman'' is derived from [[Old English]]: the root word ''searu'' means "device, design, contrivance, art" and the whole name means "man of skill".<ref name=RC81/><br />
<br />
His name in [[Sindarin]] was ''Curunír 'Lân''.<ref>{{UT|Istari}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Inspiration==<br />
As a scholar, Tolkien would also have been well aware of the name of a similarly-named historic 'head of his order', Jaruman. <br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Saruman.jpg|thumb|right|Saruman in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]]]<br />
'''1955: [[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1955 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The voice of Saruman is provided by [[Robert Farquharson]].<br />
<br />
'''1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]:'''<br />
:[[Fraser Kerr]] provided the voice of Saruman. From early on in the production, it was decided that "Saruman" and "Sauron" sounded too much alike, and might confuse viewers. On concept art, Saruman is called "Ruman",<ref>[http://www.ralphbakshi.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=69 1978 - The Lord of the Rings Gallery] at [http://www.ralphbakshi.com Ralphbakshi.com] (accessed 26 March 2011)</ref> but prior to recording, this was changed to "Aruman". However, during recording, it was again changed, to "Saruman". Because of this late change, several instances of "Aruman" remain in the finished film.<br />
<br />
'''1979: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The voice of Saruman is provided by [[James Arrington]].<br />
<br />
'''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:''' <br />
:[[Peter Howell]] played Saruman. Because the series follows a chronological timeline rather than the flashbacks of the books, Saruman's betrayal is brought out much sooner than in the book. Excerpts from [[The Hunt for the Ring]] are dramatised to flesh out Gandalf's escape from Isengard, and the Nazgul's pursuit. In the final episode Saruman's death at the hands of Wormtongue at Bag End is included.<br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Saruman using Palantír.jpg|thumb|[[Christopher Lee]] as Saruman in [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]]]<br />
'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Saruman was played by [[Christopher Lee]]. The film did not depict Saruman's adoption of the title "Saruman of Many Colours". The film also did not include the [[Scouring of the Shire]], but Saruman's last appearance was in Isengard, showing his encounter with Gandalf and Théoden. In the [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (extended edition)|extended edition of ''The Return of the King'']], Gríma stabs Saruman in the back, causing him to fall on a spiked wheel below the tower of Orthanc.<br />
<br />
'''2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Though Christopher Lee provided the voice of Saruman for many scenes, the only visual appearance of the Wizard of from re-used movie clips, his voice is played over several Gandalf's actions though.<br />
<br />
'''2003: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
:Saruman is one of the "Hero" units of the Servants of Sauron, the game also depicts his creation of the Uruk-hai.<br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Saruman is the main "Hero" unit of Isengard faction, the evil campaign follows his despoilment of both Isengard and the Fangorn Forest, war on Rohan and later conquest of the outlying lands.<br />
<br />
'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br />
:Saruman is still the main "Hero" unit of Isengard faction, but plays no role in the storyline.<br />
<br />
'''2011: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Rise of Isengard]]'':'''<br />
[[File:LOTRO-Rise of Isengard-Saruman-1.png|thumb|200px|Saruman in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'']]<br />
: Through frequently referred to in-game since 2007, Saruman made no visual appearance until 2011 and the ''Rise of Isengard'' expansion. Many quests in the game display the stretch of the White Hand - Saruman's minions are present in Shire as early as {{TA|3018}}, as well as [[Bree-land]], [[Lone-lands]], [[Eregion]], [[Enedwaith]], [[Dunland]], [[Gap of Rohan]], outskirts of the [[Fangorn Forest]] and even [[Moria]].<br />
:In the storyline of ''Rise of Isengard'' Saruman first appears buying the loyalties of the Dunlending clans, bringing with him riches and maintaining a friendly appearance. He also still keeps his affairs in Rohan private, to the point that when a Rohirrim questions the desolation of [[Nan Curunír]] and the presence of Trolls in Isengard, the Wizard manages to use his voice to convince him that it was all for the good cause. At one point, traitorous Dunlendings capture the player and send him to Saruman as a gift - once again the Wizard maintains a friendly and noble appearance, trying to discern the location of The Ring, before the player escapes. <br />
:A major storyline is derived from a single line in ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', where Saruman calls himself "Ring-forger". Long having researched the Rings of Power, Saruman sends his minions to pillage what remains of Ring-Forges of Eregion, looking for any knowledge of ancient Elven smiths that have remained here. Using that lore, he constructs a massive Ring-Forge under Isengard, where he creates five lesser rings and a master one to command them. He keeps the master ring to himself and gives the other to his most trusted lieutenants, though none of the mortals are prepared for it and are turned into monstrosities. A large forces of players defeats them one by one, reclaiming lesser rings and later uses those rings to turn upon the master one. In the ensuing fight Saruman's ring is destroyed shortly before the Battle of Hornburg, and with it the lesser ones lose their power.<br />
<br />
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Christopher Lee]] reprised his role as Saruman,although the character does not appear in the novel.<ref name="TelegraphCasting">{{webcite|articleurl=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/8311016/Christopher-Lee-will-star-in-the-Hobbit-prequel.html|articlename=Christopher Lee will star in the Hobbit prequel|dated=08-Feb-2011|website=[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ The Telegraph]|accessed=21-Dec-2011}}</ref> He appears as part of the [[White Council]] alongside [[Gandalf]], [[Galadriel]] and [[Elrond]]. He is skeptical about the appearance of a [[Sauron#Sauron's Return|Necromancer]] in [[Dol Guldur]]. However, when he participates in the [[attack on Dol Guldur]], he sees for himself that Sauron has returned, and says he will take it upon himself to keep an eye on the Dark Lord.<br />
<br />
'''2014: [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]:'''<br />
:Saruman apppears in this game,although the character is not playable, with [[Roger Jackson]] provided the voice for the character.In the game the protagonist, Talion, finds various artifacts that reveal that Saruman's spies are active within the borders of Mordor in the years between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. It is later revealed that Saruman was controlling Queen Marwen of the [[Nurnen]] in order to hinder Sauron while also bringing about the destruction of the men of [[Nurn]].<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[:Category:Images of Saruman|Images of Saruman]]<br />
<br />
{{References}}<br />
<br />
{{Ainur}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:Maiar]]<br />
[[Category:Masculine names]]<br />
[[Category:Old English names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:Wizards]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Saruman]]<br />
[[fa:سارومان]]<br />
[[fr:/encyclo/personnages/ainur/maiar/istari/saruman]]<br />
[[fi:Saruman]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Saruman&diff=291510Saruman2017-01-18T02:27:23Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Portrayal in adaptations */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{sources}}<br />
{{maiar infobox<br />
| name=Saruman<br />
| image=[[File:John Howe - Saruman.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Saruman" by [[John Howe]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=Curumo, Curunír, the White, Ring-maker, Of many colours, [[Sharkey]]<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=Head of the [[White Council]]<br />
| location=[[Orthanc]]<br />
| affiliation=[[Istari]] (Wizards)<br/>[[White Council]]<br/>[[Sauron]]<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=[[3 November]] {{TA|3019}}<br />
| deathlocation=[[Hobbiton]]<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| house=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=<br />
| children=<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=Tall<br />
| hair=White with strands of black<ref name="Voice">{{TT|Voice}}</ref><br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=White robes, shimmering with many colours<br />
| weapons=Staff<br/>Knife<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
{{pronounce|Quenya - Curumo.mp3|Gilgamesh}}<br />
{{quote|[Saruman] is great among the Wise. He is the chief of my order and the head of the Council. His knowledge is deep, but his pride has grown with it, and he takes ill any meddling. The lore of the Elven-rings, great and small, is his province. He has long studied it, seeking the lost secrets of their making (....)|[[Gandalf]], ''[[The Shadow of the Past]]''}}<br />
'''Saruman the White''' ([[Third Age]] c. 1000 – 3019, existed in [[Middle-earth]] for 2019 years) was the first of the order of [[Wizards]] (or ''Istari'') who came to Middle-earth as Emissaries of the [[Valar]] in the [[Third Age]]. He was the leader of the [[White Council]]. In [[Sindarin]] his name was '''Curunír''', which meant "Man of Skill".<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Origins===<br />
The [[Ainur]] existed before [[Arda]] was created. [[Maiar]] were angelic creatures of lower order than the [[Valar]]. [[Curumo]] and [[Mairon]] were powerful Maiar of [[Aulë]], until the latter fell and became [[Sauron]].<ref>{{S|Vala}}</ref><br />
<br />
In [[Valinor]], a council was called by [[Manwë]]. This was likely in the middle of the Second Age, shortly after the creation of the [[Rings of Power]]. It was decided to send five [[Wizards|emissaries]] to Middle-earth. These should be "mighty, peers of Sauron, yet forgo might, and clothe themselves in flesh" — Istari, or Wizards. One of those who went was '''''[[Curumo]]''''' (later in [[Sindarin]] ''[[Curunír]]'', or in [[Westron]] ''Saruman'').<ref name=Istari>{{UT|Istari}}</ref><br />
<br />
Saruman was one of those who volunteered, whereas the last one, ''[[Gandalf|Olórin]]'', (later Gandalf) was commanded by Manwë to go. Saruman's jealousy of Gandalf began even here, when [[Varda]] said of Gandalf, who went as the third Istar that he was "not the third". Saruman was charged to take [[Aiwendil]] with him to please [[Yavanna]], which he did not wish to do, and this led to contempt for the latter Wizard.<ref name=Istari/><br />
<br />
===Arrival in Middle-earth===<br />
Saruman arrived alone in a ship at [[Mithlond]] (the [[Grey Havens]]) in [[Lindon]] around the year 1000 of the [[Third Age]]<ref name="AppTA"/>, and only [[Círdan]] knew his identity and his origin. <br />
<br />
He went into the [[East]] of Middle-earth, as did the two [[Blue Wizards]]. After one and a half millennia he returned to the West, just as Sauron's power was growing again in [[Dol Guldur]].<br />
<br />
When the [[White Council]] was formed around {{TA|2463}}<ref name="AppTA"/>, Saruman was appointed its leader. Even then, he had begun to sense the resurgence of Sauron and to envy and desire his power, and especially his [[The One Ring|One Ring]]. Coincidentally, in that same year the One Ring was found by the creature [[Gollum]]<ref name="AppTA"/>, drawing the [[Dark Lord]] closer to the conflict that would eventually prove Saruman's undoing.<br />
<br />
===Chief of the White Council===<br />
[[File:Angus McBride - Saruman.gif|thumb|[[Angus McBride]] - ''Saruman'']]<br />
When [[Saruman]] returned from his travels into the east of [[Middle-earth]], he spent years in [[Minas Tirith]] examining its archives. It is possible that there he surmised that a [[Palantíri|''palantír'']] would still be located in [[Orthanc]].<ref>{{UT|Palantiri}}</ref> He offered to make Isengard his home and to command the defences of the West. This was welcomed by King [[Fréaláf]] of [[Rohan]] and [[Ruling Steward|Steward]] [[Beren (Steward of Gondor)|Beren]] of [[Gondor]] alike. In {{TA|2759}}, Saruman was given the [[Key of Orthanc]] in the ring of [[Isengard]] his abode, hoping that he would prove an important ally.<ref name="SV">{{S|V}}</ref> There he became important in the defence of the free lands of the West. In Orthanc he came upon the [[Orthanc-stone]], one of the seven seeing stones, but kept it secret and hidden, particularly from the White Council. He would later betray the Council by concealing his use of it. <br />
<br />
In {{TA|2851}}, the White Council met and Gandalf revealed that the evil presence in Dol Guldur was indeed Sauron and that he had returned, and urged an attack there. Saruman however believed that Sauron would be useful in his quest: allowing Sauron to build up his strength, the One Ring would reveal itself, and Saruman hoped to have sufficient strength to seize it first himself until that event. With this strategy in mind, Saruman overruled Gandalf. It soon became clear that Saruman desired to possess [[the One Ring]] himself.<ref name="AppTA">{{App|TA}}</ref> <br />
<br />
He soon found that Sauron had more knowledge of the possible location of the One Ring than he expected, and in {{TA|2941}} he finally consented to an [[Attack on Dol Guldur]] against Sauron at which point Sauron retreated to [[Mordor]].<br />
[[File:Angus McBride - Dol Guldur.jpg|thumb|left|Angus McBride - ''Dol Guldur'']]<br />
In {{TA|2953}}, the [[Wise]] gathered once more to debate about the [[Rings of Power]]. Saruman quieted the Council claiming to have the knowledge that the One Ring was lost forever in the [[Belegaer]]. Following their final meeting, Saruman took Isengard for his own and fortified it. Saruman, jealous and afraid of Gandalf, set spies to watch all his movements; thus he discovered the existence of the [[Shire]] and noted Gandalf's interest in it, and started sending agents in [[Bree]] and the [[Southfarthing]].<ref name="AppTA"/> As [[Lord of Isengard]], Saruman began to bring trouble to Rohan by aiding its enemies.<ref name="AppMark">{{App|Mark}}</ref> Saruman's corruption was complete when, in ''circa'' {{TA|3000}}, he used the [[Orthanc-stone|''palantír'' of Orthanc]] and was enticed by [[Sauron]].<ref name="AppTA"/<br />
<br />
Sauron declared himself openly. In Mordor, he established contact with Saruman through the [[Ithil-stone]] his minions had captured from [[Minas Ithil]]. Through his jealousy towards Gandalf and his ever-growing pride and arrogance, and through the use of the ''<br />
palantír'', wrestling in thought with the Enemy, Saruman became a servant of Sauron's will (although unintentionally, as his hopes were to gain the One Ring for himself).<br />
<br />
===War of the Ring===<br />
At about this time, in an attempt to control [[Rohan]], Saruman bought the allegiance of King [[Théoden]]'s chief advisor, [[Gríma]], who then counselled the ailing king to do nothing about the steady resurgence of Sauron's armies. Saruman and Gríma's treachery would have crippled Rohan's military might, had not [[Gandalf]] interfered a year later and revealed to Théoden his right-hand man's true designs, healing the old king and revitalizing his political and military rule. <br />
<br />
He had sent spies to negotiate the purchase of "[[pipe-weed|leaf]]" from [[the Shire]], in preparation for the war, and also learn of any [[Hobbits]] who had departed recently in hopes of finding out who possessed [[the One Ring]].<ref name="UT10">{{UT|10}}, "Concerning Gandalf, Saruman, and the Shire"</ref> <br />
<br />
Saruman did not reveal his true intentions until Gandalf presented him with the discovery and location of the One Ring. On [[10 July]], {{TA|3018}}, Gandalf arrived at Isengard.<ref name="AppGreat">{{App|Great}}</ref> Saruman demanded that Gandalf submit to him and Sauron or fail. Saruman then stood forth as '''Saruman of Many Colours''', and when Gandalf refused to join with him, he held him captive in Isengard. <br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers - Gríma and Saruman.jpg|thumb|left|Saruman commanding his forces from Orthanc]]<br />
It must have been during Gandalf's captivity in Orthanc that Saruman began to build his army of [[Orcs]], [[Dunlendings]], and [[Uruk-hai]], since Gandalf came to an as yet undestroyed Isengard. From the pinnacle of the tower Gandalf could see that Saruman was gathering an army of [[orcs]] and [[wolves]] in his pits and forges.<ref name="FRCouncil">{{FR|Council}}</ref> One can speculate that if matters had developed a little more slowly, his puppet Gríma would have gained full control over Rohan, and the [[Rohirrim]] would have been enslaved or destroyed.<br />
<br />
Saruman's plans likely failed because he, like Sauron, was forced to reveal his hand early by Gandalf's subsequent escape, and therefore he had little time to perfect his plans. As Saruman considered himself "unfallen", he honestly believed he had a chance of converting Gandalf to his side, and felt honestly betrayed by Gandalf when he was refused. <br />
<br />
Gandalf later escaped, and so Saruman's treachery became known to the rest of the White Council when Gandalf reported it during the subsequent [[Council of Elrond]].<br />
<br />
Saruman soon also betrayed his new master Sauron by lying to the [[Witch-king]] when he arrived at Isengard. Sauron had sent the [[Nazgûl]] searching for [[Bilbo Baggins|Baggins]], who had found the One Ring years before, and the Shire, his home. Saruman pretended to know nothing about the Shire. But the Lord of Morgul and his company did not have the strength to assault the Ring of Isengard. Saruman told them that he believed Gandalf knew the whereabouts of the Ring and the Riders departed. <br />
<br />
In September of {{TA|3018}} the Nazgûl captured one of his [[the Shire|Shire]] [[Squint-eyed Southerner|spies]] who told the [[Witch-king]] everything, betraying Saruman, and exposing Saruman's double treachery. They also seized some maps and information about the Shire and [[Baggins]].<ref name="UT10"/> Caught now between both sides as a known traitor to both, Saruman put all efforts into obtaining [[the One Ring]] for himself.<ref name="UTHunt">{{UT|Hunt}}</ref><br />
<br />
The failure to capture the Ring at [[Emyn Muil]] further ruined Saruman's plans, as he was revealed as a traitor to Mordor now as well.<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - The Wrath of the Ents.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''The Wrath of the Ents'']]<br />
Saruman implemented a strategy of attacking [[Rohan]], endeavouring to kill the King's son [[Théodred]], sending spies to waylay [[Frodo Baggins]] on his flight from the Shire, and dispatching raiding parties on likely routes a company of the Ring might take to Gondor. Ironically, one of these parties captured [[Peregrin Took]] and [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]] and transported them to [[Fangorn Forest]] in time to mobilize the [[Ents]]. Gandalf also suspected Saruman had found (and destroyed) the remains of [[Isildur]], who had worn the Ring before it had been lost.<br />
<br />
Saruman's Shire network failed to capture Frodo Baggins, Gandalf rallied Rohan to victory, [[Éomer]] stopped his only partially successful raiding party, and control of Isengard was lost to the [[Ents]]. Aware he was utterly defeated, Saruman briefly considered repenting for his deeds, but at the last moment could not go through with it. Whether he had hope he could escape, whether he was too proud to surrender to Gandalf, or whether he simply feared Sauron's retribution for his treachery, Saruman refused to leave the confines of his fortress. Saruman made a final attempt to woo Théoden and Gandalf to his cause but failed: his staff was broken and he was dismissed from the order of the Istari.<br />
<br />
Left out of the final stages of the War of the Ring, he eventually managed to convince his captors, the Ents, into letting him leave Isengard, as apparently the magic of his voice still remained. <br />
<br />
[[File:Ted Nasmith - Saruman is Overtaken.jpg|thumb|[[Ted Nasmith]] - ''Saruman is Overtaken'']]On their way, they were confronted by Gandalf, [[Celeborn]], [[Galadriel]] and the Hobbits on their way to northern [[Dunland]]. They found them as traveling beggars and Saruman kicked Gríma to move on, as he exclaimed how he hated his master. Gandalf told Gríma that he was free to leave him but he did not reply. As Saruman was considered powerless, there was little concern for his escape.<ref>{{RK|Partings}}</ref> He then went to the Shire, which his agent [[Lotho Sackville-Baggins]] (undisturbed by events elsewhere) had brought under control. He established himself in [[Hobbiton]] and spent his final days as a small-time thug lord whom his [[ruffians]] called '''''Sharkey'''''. But even this operation fell apart after Frodo and [[Samwise Gamgee]] returned; he was eventually betrayed and killed by his own servant Gríma on [[3 November]], {{TA|3019}}.<br />
<br />
Saruman, who was a Maia, had lost his shape with his "death". As a discorporated spirit, he should have been called to [[Mandos]], but a wind came from the [[West]] and pushed it away. Apparently his spirit was left naked, powerless and wandering in Middle-earth; perhaps not unlike Sauron after the One Ring was destroyed.<br />
<br />
==Characteristics==<br />
In appearance, Saruman was as an old man with black hair. At the end of the Third Age, his hair and beard had turned mostly white — he had only black hairs about his lips and ears. He was tall, his face was long, and his eyes were deep and dark. He would appear in a white cloak, a habit he later changed into a cloak that changed colours as he moved.<br />
<br />
He was not actually a [[Men|Man]], or even an [[Elves|Elf]] (as Men often suspected), but a [[Maiar|Maia]] clothed in flesh — an [[Istari|Istar]] ((see ''Origins'' below). As such, he was immortal and extremely powerful, yet had limits on how far these powers could be used. His two most salient powers were his knowledge and his voice.<br />
<br />
=== Powers ===<br />
Knowledge of the "deep arts" (or magic, such as it is in Middle-earth) was of particular interest to Saruman, especially when relating to power&mdash;such as the [[Rings of Power]] and the far seeing ''[[palantíri]]''. He was also deeply learned in ancient lore regarding powerful kingdoms such as [[Númenor]], [[Gondor]], and [[Moria]]. <br />
<br />
His voice and speech were extremely convincing, more powerful than mere rhetoric. When he focused this power on a person or a group of people, he could sway their hearts, plant fears and sow lies as he pleased. According to the stature of the listener, this spell could last as long as the speech did, or it could take root in them and last forever. Saruman's voice was so powerful that he was able to convince the [[Witch-king]] that he knew nothing of the One-Ring or the Shire. His voice was not hypnotic, however, rather it was persuasive; and the real danger the voice posed to the listener was not them falling into a trance, but agreeing with it. <br />
<br />
Aside from his voice, Saruman has other subtle abilities such as giving great speed and motivation to his orcs at a distance and setting his will against all those in his dominion that might oppose him. Aragorn takes note of this ability while tracking the party of orcs holding Merry and Pippin hostage. Saruman also seems to be able to move around totally unheard by others, as there are numerous examples of him using this ability. Several examples include his sneaking up on [[Aragorn]], [[Gimli]] and [[Legolas]]'s camp in [[The Riders of Rohan]], his wholly unheard entrance in [[The Voice of Saruman]] and his quiet but sudden appearance to the hobbits in [[The Scouring of the Shire]]. <br />
<br />
Other powers include knowledge of machinery and chemistry, probably separable from explicit magic (for instance, the "blasting fire" employed by his [[Uruk-hai]] army in the battle of [[Helm's Deep]], was probably some kind of explosive). Machinery and engines characterized both his fortified [[Isengard]] and his altered [[the Shire|Shire]]. In this, he probably sought to emulate [[Sauron]]. His science also extended to biological areas. He is believed to have crossbred Men and Orcs, creating a new race of Orcs unafraid of daylight. His mannish spies in [[Bree]] were said to have Orc blood. He also employed birds in his service, although this might also be attributed to [[Radagast]] the Brown, ordering them to report to [[Orthanc]], Saruman's stronghold.<br />
<br />
Being regarded as more powerful than [[Gandalf]] (at least before Gandalf's "rebirth"), it's fair to assume he would also wield explicit magic similar to Gandalf, such as artificial light, locking spells, creating fire, etc.<br />
<br />
Saruman, in his desire to imitate Sauron, attemped to forge for himself a Ring of Power. This he wore during the War of the Ring which he revealed when he called himself "Saruman the Ring-maker". He had great knowledge and lore of the magic rings created by Sauron and by the Elven-smiths, though at this time the full art of ring-making was lost and known only to Sauron and so Saruman's knowledge of the craft was incomplete. It is assumed that Saruman's Ring was the equivalent of one of the lesser rings in power and the any details of this power is not mentioned. It is also assumed that it too lost its power, if it had any, when the One Ring was destroyed, since Saruman's craft of ring-making was still based on Sauron's. When Gandalf was given Narya, the Ring of Fire, Saruman learned of the gift and resented it. This may be another reason why Saruman desired to have a ring of his own.<br />
<br />
===Personality===<br />
Saruman resembled Gandalf not only in appearance, but originally also somewhat in character, but unlike Gandalf, Saruman was proud. He saw himself as the most powerful of the Istari, expressing clear contempt for Radagast the Brown. Saruman was no fool (though he saw Radagast as one); he realized Gandalf's power, and eventually came to see him as an equal, and later as a superior, much to his distress. He became jealous of Gandalf, eventually convincing himself that Gandalf was scheming against him, which justified his own scheming against Gandalf and the rest of the White Council.<br />
<br />
Saruman likely was true to his mission in the beginning, and actually believed in working to stop Sauron, but his pride and later arrogance (as well as his jealousy towards Gandalf) turned him into a traitor to the cause he had once served. Saruman's betrayal was not sudden, but slowly grew over time, until at last he had convinced himself that he could not have taken any other path, and that it was too late now to repent. This false belief kept him from taking his last chance at redemption, and because he must have realized this he only became more bitter, blaming Gandalf more than anyone else for his own downfall.<br />
<br />
==Politics==<br />
<br />
===Men===<br />
Saruman "went mostly among men". He always sought power, and it lay in the hands of the kingdoms of Men.<br />
<br />
No records speak of his earliest journeys into the east; after his return he became a servant of [[Gondor]], receiving the keys to Orthanc from Beren as its warden. When Gondor weakened, he claimed Orthanc for his own without any formal declaration (or objection from Gondor), yet remained nominally an ally of Gondor and of Rohan. <br />
<br />
When he turned to treachery, Saruman employed men mainly from [[Dunland]], and agents from other lands, turning old grudges into fuel for new hatred. The Dunlendings were enticed with the old stories that they had once lived in [[Calenardhon]] before the ''Strawheads''. The Dunlendings became his soldiers and it also seems probable that he used some of them to create [[Half-orcs]]. <br />
<br />
Gríma Wormtongue played a vital role in Saruman's plans: with Saruman's council Gríma began to weaken the king, estranging him from his other councilors and even his own kin, until Gríma had in effect become the leader of Rohan.<br />
<br />
===Elves=== <br />
Saruman was once on good terms with the Elves, and was voted in as the leader of the White Council, a group of Elves and Istari united against Sauron. <br />
<br />
Saruman knew that Gandalf had been given the third Elvish ring [[Narya]] by [[Círdan]] the Shipwright. This nurtured his jealousy of Gandalf and his resentment towards the Elves. <br />
<br />
Saruman had little use for, or interest in, the Elves, who were declining and their lands were few and secretive; although they wielded marvellous powers and two Rings of Power, they were not useful nor accessible for Saruman's ambitions. Also, they succumbed less easily than other races to manipulation. <br />
<br />
Even though Isengard lay very close to [[Lothlórien]], Saruman had very little or no contact with it. Saruman never trusted [[Galadriel]] and he accused her of scheming for Gandalf at his expense.<ref>{{RK|Partings}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Orcs===<br />
Saruman probably drew his original strength of Orcs from tribes in the [[Misty Mountains]], and perhaps from Moria Orcs. He made use of [[Wargs|Warg]]-mounted Orcs. <br />
<br />
He also bred Orcs in Isengard, eventually creating crossbreeds of Orcs and Men (probably [[Dunlendings]]). This programme apparently also involved feeding these Orcs Man-flesh.<br />
<br />
His [[Uruk-hai]] army displayed great discipline and fierce loyalty, in addition to the other improvements such as height, strength, endurance and resistance to sunlight. There also appears to have been middle stages between Men and the Uruk-hai, Men with varying degrees of Orkish appearance. These were reported by Pippin and Merry to have been part of Saruman's regular army, but were not Uruk-hai, since the hobbits would have recognized these from their earlier capture. <br />
<br />
Saruman's servants called him "[[Sharkey]]" both in Isengard and later in the Shire.<br />
<br />
===Ents/Trees===<br />
Saruman made contact with the Ents in [[Fangorn Forest]] shortly after he settled in [[Isengard]]. The oldest of the Ents, [[Treebeard]] received him and gave him free access to the forest.<br />
<br />
Saruman also consulted with Treebeard, learning much old lore that the Ents would have remembered from ancient times. Saruman did not return this favour, but only listened. <br />
<br />
The Ents saw Saruman's treachery early, and became very concerned, primarily with Saruman's Orcs felling trees on the edge of Fangorn for use in the furnaces of Isengard&mdash;or sometimes for no reason at all. <br />
<br />
The Ents also appear to have had a sense of order, how things should be, that Saruman encroached upon. The crossbreeding of Men and Orcs particularly alarmed them, out of proportion to other concerns enemies of Saruman might have had. Also alarming was the pure fact of his treachery — the Istari were supposed to have a special responsibility. <br />
<br />
Saruman used the Ents and the Fangorn forest without concern for the consequences. He clearly misjudged the Ents' abilities and will to act. This might not have been as incautious as it seemed, since major contributing factors to the Ent's actions were advice and requests from Gandalf, and concern about the rising power of Sauron (and their wish to support the front-line troops of the war, Rohan and Gondor). <br />
<br />
Saruman clearly had the ability to understand the minds of the Ents when he found it useful. He managed to talk Treebeard into setting him free from Orthanc by pushing just the right buttons — Ents dislike the concept of caging up any creature.<br />
<br />
===Hobbits===<br />
The race of [[Hobbits]] and their lands seemed too insignificant to interest Saruman: until he took notice of Gandalf's special concern for them. Studying Gandalf made him focus gradually more and more on the Hobbits and The Shire. For a period he actually travelled there in secret, mapping out the lands. Gandalf was aware of this, but at this point only amused.<br />
<br />
He began smoking pipe-weed (a habit of the Hobbits that Gandalf had picked up), also in secret. His demand for tobacco opened up trading between The Shire and Isengard, and the power his money could wield there and the corruption it could cause began to fascinate him. Some of his agents went in secret, and some were known to Gandalf and the [[Rangers of the North|Rangers]].<br />
<br />
His anger towards the Hobbits may possibly stem from the attention Gandalf showed them. It certainly strengthened immensely when he discovered that the Hobbits had "conspired" with Gandalf to keep [[the One Ring]] from him.<br />
<br />
This, and the sudden urgency caused by the [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]]' hunt for the Ring-bearer from The Shire to Rivendell, made him increase his activity in the area, leading to a build-up of power that would lead to virtual conquest of The Shire. <br />
<br />
He might also later have blamed the ruin of Isengard by the Ents on [[Peregrin Took]] and [[Meriadoc Brandybuck]], who clearly catalysed events. <br />
<br />
This all came together when Saruman escaped from the Ents and retired to The Shire and his thug regime in place there. It appears he immediately switched the focus of this operation to wanton destruction: pollution, murder, fire, chopping down trees for no reason, a last blow against Hobbits and Gandalf.<br />
<br />
At his final utter defeat by [[Battle of Bywater|a Hobbit uprising]], his life was spared even when he tried to assassinate [[Frodo Baggins]]. At this moment he actually conceded a short-lived respect to Frodo.<br />
<br />
===Valar/Maiar/Wizards=== <br />
Saruman was supposedly eager to go to Middle-earth, against Manwë's counsel. After his 'death' he was apparently barred from returning to Valinor, and therefore was denied reincarnation and condemned to waft away and disappear like so much smoke. Sauron, in origin a Maia of Aulë like Saruman, amazed and frightened him. During the height of his arrogance Saruman thought to supplant Sauron as the Dark Lord, but in the end he found himself meddling with a spirit of far greater power than himself.<br />
<br />
Saruman grudgingly brought with him Radagast as a companion from Valinor, at the request of [[Yavanna]], yet still managed to arrive alone, and first. Shortly after, he went into the East with the two [[Blue Wizards]], and later returned alone. There he may have wrought many great works to diminish the influence of the Enemy.<br />
<br />
Radagast, even though Saruman scorned him, served Saruman very usefully (and wholly unintentionally, as he admitted "he had just the wit to play the part I set him"&mdash;that of persuading Gandalf to come to Isengard). Radagast also sent birds to Saruman and Gandalf to report the different happenings in Middle-earth. <br />
<br />
Saruman had always been jealous of Gandalf, and knew that he was keeping secrets from him, such as his suspicion about [[The One Ring|Bilbo's Ring]] and [[Narya]], secret.<br />
<br />
Gandalf also suspected Saruman of plotting to gain the One Ring for himself, and hinted at this at a meeting of the White Council. Gandalf blew nine small smoke rings and one great one that wavered a bit, seeming almost palpable, and yet blew away, symbolizing (almost prophetic of) Saruman's failure in achieving the One for himself. <br />
<br />
In general, Saruman must have viewed Gandalf as his only peer, and as such to be feared and treated with (although not necessarily shown) respect. He always kept a watchful eye open for Gandalf's doings, and actually picked up the habit of smoking pipe-weed by sending out spies tailing Gandalf to the Shire. <br />
<br />
When matters came to a head, Saruman sought to make Gandalf an ally in his plans. This was probably not just out of practical politics, but also of respect and a sense of companionship and shared destiny. And possibly out of hope, being daunted by the proposition of becoming Sauron's servant alone. <br />
<br />
Nevertheless, Saruman exercised more power than Gandalf, even with the ring Narya, as became clear when he placed Gandalf under arrest at the pinnacle of Orthanc. The text does not make it clear whether Saruman lost power or whether Gandalf gained power, but when Gandalf returned as "Gandalf the White", he could summon Saruman at his will, forcibly keep him in his presence, and finally break Saruman's staff (with whatever implications that might have had for Saruman's powers). <br />
<br />
Saruman several times came very close to setting aside his pride and to asking Gandalf for pity and help. The closest call came when the [[Nazgûl|Ringwraiths]] (on their way to the Shire) arrived at Isengard while Gandalf still remained in captivity there. Saruman, realizing his predicament, actually went to seek Gandalf's pardon, only to find his erstwhile captive missing from the top of Orthanc.<br />
<br />
===Animals===<br />
Saruman had control over many birds, probably through Radagast. These spied for him and brought him news. In addition, the Orcs Saruman took in his armies had amongst them [[Wargs]], a sort of intelligent demon-wolf.<br />
<br />
==Etymology==<br />
''Saruman'' is a [[Mannish]] translation of [[Quenya]] ''[[Curumo]]'', his original name in [[Valinor]] as a Maia; and [[Sindarin]] ''[[Curunír]]'' which is supposedly the same name (with the ending ''[[dîr|-ndîr]]'' "man"). All names mean "Skilled Man" or "Cunning One" (root ''[[curu]]'' "skill").<ref name=RC81>{{HM|RC}}, p. 81</ref><ref>{{webcite|author=[[Helge Fauskanger]]|articleurl=http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/quen-eng.htm|articlename=Quettaparma Quenyallo|website=Arda}}</ref><ref>{{webcite|author=[[Didier Willis]], ed.|articleurl=http://www.jrrvf.com/hisweloke/sindar/online/sindar/dict-sd-en.html|articlename=Hiswelókë's Sindarin dictionary|website=[http://www.jrrvf.com/hisweloke/ Hiswelókë]}}</ref><br />
<br />
''Saruman'' is derived from [[Old English]]: the root word ''searu'' means "device, design, contrivance, art" and the whole name means "man of skill".<ref name=RC81/><br />
<br />
His name in [[Sindarin]] was ''Curunír 'Lân''.<ref>{{UT|Istari}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Inspiration==<br />
As a scholar, Tolkien would also have been well aware of the name of a similarly-named historic 'head of his order', Jaruman. <br />
<br />
==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) - Saruman.jpg|thumb|right|Saruman in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]]]<br />
'''1955: [[The Lord of the Rings (1955 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1955 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The voice of Saruman is provided by [[Robert Farquharson]].<br />
<br />
'''1978: [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1978 film)]]:'''<br />
:[[Fraser Kerr]] provided the voice of Saruman. From early on in the production, it was decided that "Saruman" and "Sauron" sounded too much alike, and might confuse viewers. On concept art, Saruman is called "Ruman",<ref>[http://www.ralphbakshi.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=69 1978 - The Lord of the Rings Gallery] at [http://www.ralphbakshi.com Ralphbakshi.com] (accessed 26 March 2011)</ref> but prior to recording, this was changed to "Aruman". However, during recording, it was again changed, to "Saruman". Because of this late change, several instances of "Aruman" remain in the finished film.<br />
<br />
'''1979: [[The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1979 radio series)]]:'''<br />
:The voice of Saruman is provided by [[James Arrington]].<br />
<br />
'''1981: [[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (1981 radio series)]]:''' <br />
:[[Peter Howell]] played Saruman. Because the series follows a chronological timeline rather than the flashbacks of the books, Saruman's betrayal is brought out much sooner than in the book. Excerpts from [[The Hunt for the Ring]] are dramatised to flesh out Gandalf's escape from Isengard, and the Nazgul's pursuit. In the final episode Saruman's death at the hands of Wormtongue at Bag End is included.<br />
[[File:The Lord of the Rings (film series) - Saruman using Palantír.jpg|thumb|[[Christopher Lee]] as Saruman in [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]]]<br />
'''2001-03: [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:Saruman was played by [[Christopher Lee]]. The film did not depict Saruman's adoption of the title "Saruman of Many Colours". The film also did not include the [[Scouring of the Shire]], but Saruman's last appearance was in Isengard, showing his encounter with Gandalf and Théoden. In the [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (extended edition)|extended edition of ''The Return of the King'']], Gríma stabs Saruman in the back, causing him to fall on a spiked wheel below the tower of Orthanc.<br />
<br />
'''2003: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Though Christopher Lee provided the voice of Saruman for many scenes, the only visual appearance of the Wizard of from re-used movie clips, his voice is played over several Gandalf's actions though.<br />
<br />
'''2003: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
:Saruman is one of the "Hero" units of the Servants of Sauron, the game also depicts his creation of the Uruk-hai.<br />
<br />
'''2004: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth]]'':'''<br />
:Saruman is the main "Hero" unit of Isengard faction, the evil campaign follows his despoilment of both Isengard and the Fangorn Forest, war on Rohan and later conquest of the outlying lands.<br />
<br />
'''2006: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'':'''<br />
:Saruman is still the main "Hero" unit of Isengard faction, but plays no role in the storyline.<br />
<br />
'''2011: ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online: Rise of Isengard]]'':'''<br />
[[File:LOTRO-Rise of Isengard-Saruman-1.png|thumb|200px|Saruman in ''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]'']]<br />
: Through frequently referred to in-game since 2007, Saruman made no visual appearance until 2011 and the ''Rise of Isengard'' expansion. Many quests in the game display the stretch of the White Hand - Saruman's minions are present in Shire as early as {{TA|3018}}, as well as [[Bree-land]], [[Lone-lands]], [[Eregion]], [[Enedwaith]], [[Dunland]], [[Gap of Rohan]], outskirts of the [[Fangorn Forest]] and even [[Moria]].<br />
:In the storyline of ''Rise of Isengard'' Saruman first appears buying the loyalties of the Dunlending clans, bringing with him riches and maintaining a friendly appearance. He also still keeps his affairs in Rohan private, to the point that when a Rohirrim questions the desolation of [[Nan Curunír]] and the presence of Trolls in Isengard, the Wizard manages to use his voice to convince him that it was all for the good cause. At one point, traitorous Dunlendings capture the player and send him to Saruman as a gift - once again the Wizard maintains a friendly and noble appearance, trying to discern the location of The Ring, before the player escapes. <br />
:A major storyline is derived from a single line in ''[[The Fellowship of the Ring]]'', where Saruman calls himself "Ring-forger". Long having researched the Rings of Power, Saruman sends his minions to pillage what remains of Ring-Forges of Eregion, looking for any knowledge of ancient Elven smiths that have remained here. Using that lore, he constructs a massive Ring-Forge under Isengard, where he creates five lesser rings and a master one to command them. He keeps the master ring to himself and gives the other to his most trusted lieutenants, though none of the mortals are prepared for it and are turned into monstrosities. A large forces of players defeats them one by one, reclaiming lesser rings and later uses those rings to turn upon the master one. In the ensuing fight Saruman's ring is destroyed shortly before the Battle of Hornburg, and with it the lesser ones lose their power.<br />
<br />
'''2012-14: [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]:'''<br />
:[[Christopher Lee]] reprised his role as Saruman,although Saruman does not appear in the novel.<ref name="TelegraphCasting">{{webcite|articleurl=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/8311016/Christopher-Lee-will-star-in-the-Hobbit-prequel.html|articlename=Christopher Lee will star in the Hobbit prequel|dated=08-Feb-2011|website=[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ The Telegraph]|accessed=21-Dec-2011}}</ref> He appears as part of the [[White Council]] alongside [[Gandalf]], [[Galadriel]] and [[Elrond]]. He is skeptical about the appearance of a [[Sauron#Sauron's Return|Necromancer]] in [[Dol Guldur]]. However, when he participates in the [[attack on Dol Guldur]], he sees for himself that Sauron has returned, and says he will take it upon himself to keep an eye on the Dark Lord.<br />
<br />
'''2014: [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]:'''<br />
:Saruman apppears in this game,although the character is not playable, with [[Roger Jackson]] provided the voice for the character.In the game the protagonist, Talion, finds various artifacts that reveal that Saruman's spies are active within the borders of Mordor in the years between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. It is later revealed that Saruman was controlling Queen Marwen of the [[Nurnen]] in order to hinder Sauron while also bringing about the destruction of the men of [[Nurn]].<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[:Category:Images of Saruman|Images of Saruman]]<br />
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{{References}}<br />
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{{Ainur}}<br />
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[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Silmarillion]]<br />
[[Category:Maiar]]<br />
[[Category:Masculine names]]<br />
[[Category:Old English names]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
[[Category:Wizards]]<br />
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[[de:Saruman]]<br />
[[fa:سارومان]]<br />
[[fr:/encyclo/personnages/ainur/maiar/istari/saruman]]<br />
[[fi:Saruman]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sage&diff=291371User talk:Sage2017-01-13T21:49:12Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Discussion */</p>
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<div>{{w|Hyarion|[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]}}<br />
==Tale of Years==<br />
It's a known fact that the Tale of Years is full of mistakes, however, most of these were corrected in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th anniversary edition]]. That should be included as well. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:54, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Standards==<br />
We should really include this in the welcome message, but just FYI: [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style]]. This is in reference to your use of "LotR" in [[Gildor|Gildor Inglorion]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:39, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Elves ==<br />
<br />
What published works say that elves are taller?<br />
<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 20:58, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:from the Appendices: <br />
*the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed<br />
<br />
:Since the writer of the Appendices is a Man, and his readers are also Men, why would he describe the Eldar as tall and not as short?<br />
<br />
:Some characters, both Elves and Men are mentioned to be tall, and I understand these can be understood as 'relativistic'; for example you can say that the Eldar were tall relative to the other Elves, but still shorter than Men (although this explanation is quite tentative, and plausible only if you ''want'' to prove that Elves were shorter). I skimmed through the Silmarillion and saw that while the people of Marach are said to be tall, and while other men described as tall such as Galdor the Tall, most references were about Elves. <br />
:*Ingwë the High King, golden-haired and tall<br />
:*The seven sons of Fëanáro were Maedhros the tall...<br />
:*their sister was Ar-feiniel the White. She was younger in the years of the Eldar than her brothers; and when she was grown to full stature and beauty she was tall and strong<br />
:*[Thingol] tallest of all the Children of Ilúvatar<br />
:*But Eöl, though stooped by his smithwork, was no Dwarf, but a tall Elf of a high kin of the Teleri<br />
:*[Maeglin] was tall and black-haired; his eyes were dark<br />
<br />
:I don't argue that the assumption that more Elves than Men tended to be tall, can be proben by a statistical analysis. However if Elves are shorter, why Thingol was to be the tallest of all Elves and Men, and not some Man? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Well, Tolkien stated that elves and men were at first "of a like size" (that is probably the best description in the whole legendarium for their size difference) in the BOLT2. If this is true, whether they became smaller in later ages or not, Thingol could easily be the tallest of all the Children of Iluvatar, but that doesn't mean that most elves were taller than men. Also, more elves are described as tall in the Silmarillion than men because the Silmarillion was almost all about elves, and the very few central character men that were in it were often described as tall, such as Tuor and Turin, as were many men of later ages, especially of Numenorian decent.<br />
<br />
While the elves may not be shorter than men in general, I do not think it can be said with certainty that they are taller. By the way, can we make a real talk page/forum for this?<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:48, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I am new here, I don't know the process so be my guest. But as a last note, I also remember in BOLT 1 that Elves are shorter, and I was shocked. Furthermore, I think I also read a comment that this idea was later dropped. Anyway I hope you are aware that the BOLT books take place in a different 'continuity' and shouldn't be considered as guides for the general canon. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:51, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Perhaps they shouldn't be considered canon, but from '''''Tolkien's Legendarium; Essays on The History of Middle-earth'''''; "...there are Tolkien's latest thoughts, his best thoughts, and his published thoughts and these are not necessarily the same."<br />
That is probably the wisest analysis that I have ever read about the world of Middle earth.<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:31, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Amras==<br />
<br />
Hi and welcome to TG (I never "officially" got to greet you). [[Amras]] now. I know it is not much what you wrote, but please don't do it again in the future when you see that "claimed" tag. I am asking this of you as nice as I can and I can only hope that you'll understand it. I know you saw a mistake and wanted to correct it, but keep in mind that all the Sons will get rewritten by me to the last word in those articles, so all the errors will be fixed. It is just a matter of time. There are over 7000 articles here. I'm sure there's plenty of work for all of us. All the best! :) ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 05:24, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yes I know you are asking it nicely (I am not of those hot-tempered people who frown at each scolding :P) and I understand. But last time I asked I was told its usage was mainly to avoid edit conflicts and loss of data, therefore it's not always that ''bad'' to edit minimally those articles in the meantime (of course there is a problem with larger edits). So my edit was to make sure that you wouldn't miss that mistake and leave it there intact. Anyway I won't do this again (at least with your claimed articles :)). I trust you will do a good work. Namarie :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:41, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::My bad for that. I voiced my personal opinion. Like I said, guidelines are too grey. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 06:58, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::: Sage - It's a good thing at least one of us isn't from that kind of hot-tempered people :)) If you won't agree with something I'll write in future articles (for various reasons, like better knowledge of the text), feel free to drop me a message and corrections will be made, promise. Ederchil - There's no such thing as "my bad" here. :) Thank you both for understanding. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 13:52, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Dwarf names==<br />
A couple of things... there are several etymological theories about the Dwarf-names in the ''Dvergatal''. Therefore, I think it's important to state the source of the translation, and add others as well. Also, place Etymolgies above Genealogies, and use double ", not '. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:49, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Right away [[User:Sage|Sage]] 04:50, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::And maybe it's handy to mention the language as well, re: [[Arkenstone]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 10:20, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Meetings ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to [[Forum:Meetings|here]]. We are currently discussing the idea of a weekly site meeting. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:11, 7 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Individual Tengwar==<br />
Since you're listing the Westron names, you should really mention ''Report from Marquette'' by Jim Allan among the references. Even if you haven't read it. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:07, 15 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==References==<br />
Hiya. Just a note: <nowiki><ref> tags don't work unless you include a <references/> section at the end (or rather, a <small><references></small> section). </nowiki>-- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:02, 22 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==[[:Template:HM]]==<br />
Any thoughts? Other than "Expand to include LotR, S, H and UT" and "Add chapters"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Next Meeting ==<br />
<br />
It is planned that we hold our next meeting on the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 April 2009|5<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 April 2009|here]].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Re: Geia!==<br />
Geia sou kai esena! dystyxws den to exw to allo vivlio tou Tsouli alla to xw diavasei... o typos einai kamenos.<br />
<br />
Xairomai pou kai alloi ellhnares diavazoun Tolkien kai grafoun so Tolkien Gateway. Kai se eixa dei polles fores sto Recent changes kai den hxera oti eisai ellhnas... nomizw pws sou eixa grapsei ena talk page se kapoio athro sta agglika... [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 15:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Next Meeting==<br />
<br />
Sorry to clutter up your talk page, but just informing you about the next meeting. It is planned that we hold our next meeting on '''Monday''' the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/13 April 2009|13<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/13 April 2009|here]]. Remember that it's on Easter Monday, not Easter Sunday. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Xristos Anesth==<br />
Xristos Anesth re patriwth! xronia polla![[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 08:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Multiple language words==<br />
Just a question how to deal with words that exist in multiple languages - [[Tur]], [[Tûr]], [[Aran]] for example. What layout do we use? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Orcs==<br />
Exw dei edw kai kairo oti psaxnete gia contributors stin selida twn Orcs. Loipon, ama psaxnete akomh endiaferomai egw na voithisw giati ta goustarw poly ta Orcs. Oti idees exeis pes mou. [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 14:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Tengwar==<br />
A lot of the tengwar pages require specific fonts, and people that don't have those fonts installed get gibberish. How about a template at the top, saying "for optimal reading, this page requires any of the following fonts"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==[[Common Eldarin|CE]] "3"==<br />
I see you use the 3 to represent the [[wikipedia:Yogh|yogh]]/ʒ. If you look at the edittools bar ("Insert:") at the bottom, you can see the actual symbol next to the dagger symbol. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Amrod]] (and [[Amras]]) ==<br />
<br />
You’re not wrong in what you added to the etymology of that name (although ''Ambaráto'' is the Telerin form, appropriate for Aegnor, whereas Amrod would of course have the Quenya form ''Ambarto''), but unfortunately it makes the messed up alignment of names that was already there even worse. Have a look at what I wrote on the Talk pages of both twins, and see if you can follow what I argue. Feel free to get back to me (or add to the Talk pages) when you got problems. But I think probably the time has come to untangle the mess and reorganise both articles (on the twins). I would be glad of your opinion on that. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:40, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Upcoming Meeting ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering if you wanted to attend an upcoming meeting this Sunday. If you can make, please [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/27 June 2010|sign up]]. Thanks! --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Cirth/Angerthas ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering why you moved Angerthas Daeron, Angerthas Erebor and Angerthas Moria to [[Cirth/Angerthas Daeron]], [[Cirth/Angerthas Erebor]] and [[Cirth/Angerthas Moria]] respectively? It seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me (especially as no article links directly to these three), and I'm not sure what they mean as subtitles: are they meant to be subpages of [[Cirth]] or are you just indicating in the titles that "''cirth''" can be used as another name for "''angerthas''"? Would you object if I were to move them back to their original articles? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:22, 7 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==New words==<br />
Hi Sage! Sorry to trespass your linguistic ground by creating an article for ''[[Mae]]''. Since you have more experience on this field, do you have any thoughts on what I did on the page? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:31, 28 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Meeting - Sunday 5th September ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Sage! Just a quick message to inform you that we are holding our next [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings|Meeting]] on [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010|Sunday, 5<sup>th</sup> September 2010]] at 7pm [[wikipedia:UTC|UTC]]. Whether you are or aren't able to attend, please sign your name on the [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 September 2010|here]]. Hope to see you on Sunday! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Meeting - Sunday 3rd October ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage - do you reckon you'll be available for [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|tomorrow's meeting]]? It would be good to see you there! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== A Few Issues ==<br />
<br />
Just a few things I think you should know about:<br />
* This may seem trivial, but could you make sure that you end your sentences in a full-stop?<br />
* When quoting, you should indicate such with quotation marks, otherwise it is technically plagiarism.<br />
* With regards to references, [[Template:References]] has to be at the bottom of the article, or else they won't work (see [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Amon_Amarth&curid=1115&oldid=128927 this], for example).<br />
* Also re: referencing, could you make sure you include page numbers for all publications save for ''The Hobbit'', ''The Lord of the Rings'', ''The Silmarillion'' and ''The Unfinished Tales''; in particular, '' A Readers' Companion'' has only one pagination so there is no need to omit page numbers.<br />
**I am using a copy of ''Nomenclature'' that was handed to me before the Companion was published, so I can't know the pages. In any case I think it is not necessary, since the Nomenclature is arranged like a dictionary. If that's a problem, then I should reference simply "Nomenclature" instead. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* There's no need to remove interwiki links (unless they are incorrect).<br />
**You mean the links to other languages? That must be by accident, I didn't meddle with those. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Also, I really must ask that you don't move articles unless there is clear reason, and when you do, use the Move button at the top of the page, and don't copy and paste. The problem with copying and pasting is that it separates an article from its history and therefore obscures its development. Obviously, if the article is spelt incorrectly, is clearly under an under-used name, or uses our old verbose disambiguation system, you can move it without debate, but otherwise it's best to just do a quick message on the talk page (and if no one replies assume it's safe to proceed).<br />
**I try to separate English-named articles from Elvish-named articles. My personal rule of thumb is that the main article is under the English name; the Elvish articles have a link to the main article, and linguistic/etymological notes. When I see e.g. both Silvertine and Zirakzigil redirect to Celebdil, the best thing I can do is replace the redirects with actual content, and copy the bulk of the text to the one that fits most; I can't put an explanation of "tine" in the article for Celebdil, and I can't create an article for Silvertine only to put this explanation. The 'Move' action was unavailable because the target was occupied by the redirects. I understand that copying instead of moving must cause such issues, but while in the fever of adding etymologies and encountering these obstacles, I confess that the issues you mentioned seemed trivial at that moment *blush* [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Disambiguation pages should only include the actual articles which require disambiguating - etymological information (other than a brief description in the opening line) should be seeded into the individual articles.<br />
**I fail to understand the reason. Why should the etymology of the name "Hurin" be copied to the five articles of the five individuals called Hurin and not in the single disambiguation page? In similar cases I'd write the full etymology in the disambig page and in the individual articles put a "See Hurin (disambiguation)" link under "Etymology". It seems cleaner and tidier that way. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Re: categorisation. There is no point categorising articles in categories which don't exist; it does nothing and just puts a redlink at the bottom of the page. Creation categories (and categorising them), is exactly the same as creation (and categorising) articles. (See [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Oathbreakers&oldid=128044 this] for the redlink.)<br />
None of the above is meant in vitriol, rudeness, admonition or patronisation: it's just a few pointers to make sure that TG conforms to the very highest standards to be something we can all be proud of. Do keep up the work, here - you are a ''very'' valued contributor. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:08, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Also, be sure to follow the advice given {{Redlink|[[Portal:Locations/Category tree|here]]}} on the Locations category structure. It seems a lot of editors don't understand the structure I put in place, that page should go some way in explaining what to do (if unsure, just ask me :) ). --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:56, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== File:Beleriand-eriador-fonstad.png ==<br />
[[File:Steven White Jr. - ME FA 02.gif|thumb|right|150px]]<br />
Hi there. Can you please tell me whose maps you used to create the compound map? The basic Beleriand map is obviously the one derived by me (with the cut-outs where the forst labels are in CT's original map) when I first attempted to join CT's maps at Mount Himring. See an earlier sketch of said map on the right. I wonder how that ended up on the web at all...<br />
[[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 23:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi there. I made this composition some years ago, using elements from various maps I had found online. My purpose was to portray a "sunken" Beleriand with the 3rd Age outline of Lindon, and Fonstad's North. It seems that I used your composite map as a base (yes, the one where you have Himring marked in red). When I edited the map recently in order to upload it, I had a [[Wikipedia:false memory|false memory]] that my base had been Fonstad's Arda map, including the shores and outlines; but now that you made me check again, I saw that the southern shoreline as she envisioned it, differs greatly from this one. It turns out that the greater part of this map is your work. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 01:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::You mean the one on the right? Where did you find that? The file is almost 10 years old and I had forgotten about it. I later adjusted the southern coastline, as can be seen on the map in my user page. Those were the days before Photoshop :-) Maybe I should get into the mapmaking business again. My clash with the Tolkien Estate is 6 years back, after all. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 07:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I had a newer version of that map of yours, part of a big collection of fan-made maps I had downloaded from fansites. I think this one was on Tolkienion.com? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::Ah, that may be. I had to remove the maps section of the Tolkienion when I got in trouble over the maps. However, the maps still exist [http://7a6972656f5f74637568.killerhor.net/index2.php?framesource=indexframe.php here]. But the map you used is not there. I have lost a couple of maps when I had a hard drive failure a few years back. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 13:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==Elvish roots/stems==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. I have a question about how to interpret a specific form often occurring in the ''Etymologies''. For example, for the base AK-, the form *''akrā'' appears, after which follows the Quenya and Noldorin forms. Now, my question is: what is the form *''akrā'' supposed to signify? Primitive Quendian? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 13:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for the quick answer (for other editors, see [[User talk:Morgan#Roots]])! I hope you don't mind that I have some related questions (I suggest that you answer here, since that makes it easier to follow the conversation):<br />
#Which form should we use as title for these articles? ÁLAT- or just ÁLAT? I've noticed that earlier root articles omit the hyphen. Is this intentional? I started to include the hyphens in the articles I just created, since this is how they appear in the ''Etymologies''.<br />
**I guess the hyphens indicate that the roots are not complete words. Since this is one of the definitions of a root, and '''all''' roots have one, I consider trivial such an indication. If you look at Ardalambion or linguistic discussions in the mailing lists, there is no hyphen. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#How should we think about the e/ë question in Quenya words? Should the name of the article be, for example, aiwe or aiwë?<br />
**I am against using the diaereses for several reasons, but I think the TG prefers to include them. A couple of Quenya articles I wrote were renamed by some other editor. In any case, I never use them :D [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***According to Fauskanger, "''Tolkien often uses the diaeresis (two dots as in Manwë) to clarify the pronunciation of Elvish names for readers of English, but it is hardly ever used in the Etymologies, a work that was never intended for wider circulation.''" ([http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/index/indexs.htm]). Perhaps this is a good reason to actually use the diaereses? Or is it possible for you to explain the reasons against using them? I just noticed the issue in the article on ''[[yáve]]''. I found out that the spelling ''yávë'' is used in ''The Silmarillion'' (appendix) - isn't then this the more "proper" (canonical?) spelling? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#A general linguistic remark: right now, the standard on TG is to use the past tense in article text which is "inside" the legendarium. However, in linguistic texts (such as etymology sections and "dictionary" articles on specific words) we always use the present tense. Is there a reason behind these different uses? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:51, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
**I see that languages, as abstract entities, are outside of time. Once a language exists, its vocabulary and rules will always "exist", even if the language itself is dead or ancient. For example everyone says "Amor in Latin means love" rather than "meant". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***Good point. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Dots===<br />
The dots signify nothing to Quenya itself. Tolkien in his personal writings (and the Elves) did not use dots. Its quite different from the accents which '''are''' significant to the language and denote a long vowel; yave and yáve would be two different words, with different pronunciation, and different Tengwar spelling.<br><br />
On the contrary, the dots don't exist in the language and are of course not represented in tengwar. Tolkien invented them for the published books only to visually assist the occasional English readers to remember that ''e'' is pronounced. In fact, all ''e''s in Quenya are pronounced but the English (or French, who also has silent ''e''s) reader perhaps needs such a reminder. yáve and yávë are not different spellings, they are exactly the same thing, only that yávë is perhaps more visually helpful for the English (or the French).<br><br />
The reason '''not''' to use the dots, besides being not a part of the language, is that it's quite more complicated to write and search in the wiki for ''yávë'' than ''yáve''.<br><br />
And if I may mention, in Albanian ''ë'' signifies a silent ''e'', so it would have the contrary effect to an Albanian reader :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am personally in favour of the diaereses: this is an English-language website aimed at those who know English - diaereses have a clear meaning in English which I think it is important to maintain. Furthermore, should we be over-ruling the Professor's use of diaereses? <br />
<br />
:The problem of typing/searching can be solved by redirects. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:31, 2 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::I agree with Mith, I think we should use Yávë, with Yáve as redirects. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]]<br />
::I'd argue that the Professor used the diaereses with publication in mind, not as a rule-not-to-be-over-ruled; or else such forms would be seen in HoMe. It would be interested to bring the matter up in the forum, what do you say? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 20:03, 4 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::I don't know if a publication post-mortem can really be conclusive evidence either way of the professor's intentions. However, as you point out, the Professor included diaereses with publication in mind and he never had HOME in mind for publication (and if he did we can't know that he wouldn't have gone through adding diaereses). I think it's a moot point, really. <br />
:::Furthermore, is it not confusing to readers not so well-versed in Tolkienian linguistics to encounter words lacking diaereses where they think they should see them? (I notice, for instance, that many scholars retain diaereses where Tolkien uses them.)<br />
:::I know it can be hard for non-native speakers of English to understand, but the diaereses really is a valuable tool in aiding pronunciation amongst native speakers (remember Cate Blanchett's "''The light of Erendil''"!), and, contrary to popular belief amongst some (non-native speakers) scholars, it is understand by many: words such as coöperate, continuüm, reëlect, zoölogy and naïve as well as names like Chloë, Zaïre, Boötes, and the Brontë Sisters. Notwithstanding the above, I would still support the use of diaereses as a distinguishing feature of unusualness: in English, any form of diacritic signifies "''I am a foreign word.''" - it creates an aura of intrigue and mystery which I wouldn't wish to lose.<br />
:::It would be good if you could attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 December 2010|the meeting today]], I've added this issue on the list of things to discuss. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:44, 5 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==Elvish/PQ==<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to this question of mine: [[Talk:ÁS-AT]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Second Age Globe ==<br />
<br />
As you pointed out, I completely forgot that Arda wasn't made round until the end of the Second Age. I really like the images you put together for the First Age and Third Age globes as I used in my [[User:KingAragorn/Sandbox|sandbox]] for the location portal. Would it be possible for you to create a Second Age globe in the same style? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Boromir and Beornings==<br />
Hello Sage! Just drawing you attention to [[Talk:Boromir#Etymology]] and [[Talk:Beornings]], where I discuss your edits.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Use of asterisk==<br />
I noted that you use both single and double asterisks in the article on [[Valaraukar]]. I think the use needs to be explained, either by making the asterisks into links (as was my initial idea), or, as can be seen here [[Talk:*]], where [[User:Mith]] is of the opinion that we should avoid the use of asterisk altogether. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 15:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am not sure on what you want me to comment [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::What does the double asterisk (**) signify? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The double asterisk is explained in [[asterisk]] :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:00, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Oh, thank you! :) Then I'll go ahead and make internal links for the asterisks (at least for the time being - since there is a debate on wether we should use asterisks or not). (BTW, don't you find it more convenient to keep a conversation to one talk page? It tends to get confusing having to switch between talk pages when following a conversation.) /Cheers --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Taniquetil ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! On this article I removed the redlinks as I find redlinks ugly whilst showing to the reader where our holes are (and giving false hope that those articles may exist); I personally think redlinks shouldn't be created unless you expect to create the article ''yourself'' or have a realistic expectation that someone else will do so soon. Are you intending on creating articles for ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, personally I don't think redlinks ugly and I consider them only 'work to be done in the future'. For example, if someone ever will create an article for "nique", he will have to manually trace every page containing the word and wikify it. I believe redlinks can be useful by the "Wanted Pages" of the "What links here" features. But I respect the different aesthetics about the wiki. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:02, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I accept that - and indeed agree - so long as it ''is'' "work to be done in the future" and not just "work someone else ''might'' do at some point"; if an article never gets created the redlink serves no useful function. We have 6690 wanted pages (of which a good chunk are linguistic ones) - a figure which is increasing and not decreasing - so the work isn't really getting done; in the meeting last September I argued, "''let's be honest, they probably aren't all articles waiting to happen''".<br />
::The problem is especially true for linguistic articles because it's such a specialised area there are very few people who know enough to edit those articles and even fewer who are happy to do so, therefore you can't ever realistically expect anyone to ever create those articles. Are you planning on creating links to ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:23, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Well I will have in mind to complete immediately the articles I wikify from now on. I will try to work on complete trees and their related pages when possible. Don't worry about that. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:46, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==PQ/PE==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage! I need help on the following: should "Proto-Eldarin" be redirected to Primitive Quendian or Common Eldarin? Or do you think Proto-Eldarin have its own article ([http://reocities.com/athens/parthenon/9902/langlst.html Lisa Star] says that it sometimes seem to refer to PQ and sometimes to CE)? I've tried (without success) to find this term in Tolkien's writings.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Obviously Proto-Eldarin is not an attested form, but a term originating before Tolkien's writings about Primitive Quendian were published, and before any details about the Eldar vs Avari were known. I think it is safe to redirect it to Common Eldarin. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:37, 6 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Etymology of ''Sauron''==<br />
Sage, do you have ideas/comments on how we should present the etymology of the name ''Sauron'' on Tolkien Gateway? Having investigated it a bit, a complete version is [[User:Morgan/Sandbox6|more complicated]] than what I think could be presented on a general wiki article. As I understand it, Tolkien struggled with deriving ''Sauron'' either from Sindarin ''thaur'' (PE:17, p. 183; EQS), or giving the name a Quenya derivation (''saura'' "cruel") ultimately deriving from a base THAW (PE:17, p. 184; Letter 297). --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
:We can mention both derivations from ''saura'' and ''thaur''. It seems like it is needed an entry on the word ''[[saura]]'' which seems to have suffered most under Tolkien's revisions, and provide them in its article. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks - I've added the info to our Sauron etymology section.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Letter 427==<br />
Hi Sage, I just saw you added {{redlink|[[Letter 427]]}} as a reference to [[-nguo]]. This letter does however not exist, could you look into this and add the correct letter? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Legendary locations==<br />
Ah! I had forgotten about the Last Desert - it's a good addition to the template. I'm sure there are some others I haven't thought about.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:14, 30 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Images ==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. As you probably know, I've been sorting out images on TG and making sure that they all have the proper file licensing templates. I'm sure that you will agree that this is a mammoth task; therefore I would like to ask for your help sorting out the images that you've uploaded. Please see below for a list of files that need sorting and/or checking.<br />
<br />
You noted on these images that they were public domain, so I've put a PD template on them. However, we need to know the author's name so that they can be categorised and named properly.<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Rumil2.gif.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Elemm.gif]]}}<br />
:The author made those as spontaneous doodles. He is not a professional and doesn't pursue any credit, and as far as I know he wouldn't like to have his name published online either. I wonder if we can support the option to name some files as "Anonymous" [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Please check these maps and decide whether you, [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] (her estate or publisher, I don't know), or someone else owns the copyright. You'll notice that on some I've guessed and put on a file licensing template, but please check them.<br />
:The maps I have marked with an asterisk are derivatives of (usually) Fonstad's works, therefore I don't have the authority to grant any permission to publish them under any term. I think that we should track Fonstad's copyright holders. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Almaren.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Evolution of Arda.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Reunited Kingdom.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Middle-earth.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:1050.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1105.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1115.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1125.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1132.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1149.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1150.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1200.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1300.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1350.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1498.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1129.png]]*<br />
*{{redlink|File:Belfalas 2nd Age.jpg}} (NB: I tried to contact [[Andreas Möhn]] but his e-mail bounced)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Beleriand and Eriador collage.png]] <br />
:this is a collage of maps by Fonstad, Raw and User:Smeagol [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Location of Numenor.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Great Plague.png]]<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Pan-route.png]]}}*<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Overhill-route.png]]}}*<br />
*[[:File:Pauline Baynes - The Little Kingdom.jpg]]<br />
:this is a map by Pauline Baynes, therefore it should take the template that other Baynes' images do. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I've put an unknown copyright status on these miscellaneous images. Please identify the copyright holder and conact them for permission. If you want me to contact them, just ask.<br />
:I do believe that it would be better if you include these in your existing work. You have better experience in this and you will do quicker and better than if we shared the work. However I will put notes to help you [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:PP banner.jpg]]<br />
:this is a derivative of collective work by members of the GTS. You can contact them from their Facebook page. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Michael Gaydos - TolkienWilliamsLewis.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Daniel reeve.jpg]]}}<br />
:the picture was taken from a package of maps by Decipher. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwafrune.gif}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwarfrunes.JPEG}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dansmith.png}}<br />
:these pictures were taken by Dan Smith's font site. FYI I contacted him once but he didn't reply [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Mani and Sol.jpg]]<br />
:I took the image from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M%C3%A1ni_and_S%C3%B3l_by_Lorenz_Fr%C3%B8lich.jpg here]. It belongs in the PD. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Alex lewis.jpg]]}}<br />
:this picture was taken by members of the GTS at Oxonmoot (I think 2002). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Idril.gif]]}}<br />
:I will try to contact MB and ask him if we can use his heraldry here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Steve Notley - Bob the Angry Flower's Lord of the Ringz.gif]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Gift.jpg]]}}<br />
:This was made by the Hildebrandts [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Brothers Hildebrandt - Return of the King.jpg]]}} (NB: I will try to contact Greg Hildebrandt)<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Cave.jpg]]}}<br />
:Made by Wenzel, however I don't know what's the copyright and if he gave permission for this [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Many thanks for your help!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 10:50, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thanks for the info. I shall grow through them at some point.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Buckland==<br />
See [[Talk:Buckland]]. In no primary source does it talk about Buckland becoming part of the Shire (it does for the Westmarch, however). Indeed "Eastmarch" is not mentioned, but "East March" is (only once).--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Category:Greco-Romance names ==<br />
<br />
Hey Sage. [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012|At the meeting just gone]] we discussed your [[:Category:Greco-Roman names|Category:Greco-Romance names]]. You may have noticed that I moved it (because I thought that you have made a spelling mistake). You can read the discussion [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012/Transcript|here]]. As you can see, we decided that it would be best to diffuse the category into "Romanic names" and "Ancient Greek names". Are you happy with this? If so, could you sort it out?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Please have a look at [[Category talk:Greco-Roman names]] [[User:Sage|Sage]] 23:49, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Westlands==<br />
I just noticed that your reference in [[Westlands]] didn't work as the parameter "X1" doesn't exist in [[Template:SD]]. I've changed it to "XI" (Epilogue). Was this correct or did you use another chapter as source? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 16:39, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Oops! yes, that's correct :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 19:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Alatar and Pallando==<br />
<br />
Sage, do you know of any good linguistic analysis of the names ''Alatar'' and ''Pallando''? I made a quick search, but couldn't find any -- surely it must have been discussed in VT or PE? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
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:No, other than the lotr.wikia.com speculates that Pallando is related to palan/palla [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:54, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::{{UT|Istari}}, Note 6 says: "''Pallando'', despite the spelling, perhaps contains ''palan'' 'afar', as in ''palantír'' and in ''Palarran'' 'Far Wanderer', the name of Aldarion's ship." This is C.R.T.'s speculation for Pallando, could we speculate Alatar's etymology? Or should we just say that it's unknown?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Yes we could. There is ''alata'' "great", ''al(a)-'' "blessed" with ''atar'' "father" or ''tar'' "high one" and so on. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Right. Just to make a note of it, Encylopedia of Arda also suggests that ''Alatar'' can be interpreted as "after-comer" [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/alatar.html].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:43, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Category:Angicised Westron words ==<br />
<br />
Are you going to make ''[[Special:WantedCategories|Category:Angicised Westron words]]''?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Maps==<br />
Who made these maps?<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:At the crossroads map.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Over hill.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Short Rest.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Roast Mutton.png]]}}--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:32, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:They are croppings from [[:File:Mith01.jpg|this map]] but since they would take the unknown-copyright tag anyway, I didn't bother to add more information for that moment. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:35, 3 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lenition/Mutation==<br />
Hello Sage! I noticed that we have no separate page for mutation in Sindarin (like we have for [[lenition]]). Do you reckon such a page could be useful, or do you know if we have any other article to which mutation can be redirected? Thanks --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:23, 12 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==The "Hobbit" week==<br />
Sage, do you have any thoughts about this: can the "archaic" names of the days of the week be said to be Westron, and the later names to be Hobbitish (Kuduk)? I'm just thinking of how to categorize the names according to language.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The names ''Monendei'' and so are Middle English and can be considered "Middle Westron" according to [https://sites.google.com/site/endorenya/language-periodizations this project]. The modern day names ''Monday'' etc can be considered regular developments in "modern" Westron, but I don't think we can tell how much they are proper, or Hobbitish Westron. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:34, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:For example, I am not sure if "Trewsday" was the name also used by the Rangers, Gondorians, Gandalf, etc, or whether they would say *"Treesday". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:37, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Wintring==<br />
Thanks for correcting my silly edit at the Wintring article, Sage! :-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:41, 18 November 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bain pic ==<br />
<br />
Since there don't seem to be any other images of Bain on the site (yet), is there really any harm in keeping the shot from "The Desolation of Smaug" as his 'profile pic,' so to speak? --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 03:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:According to my own personal understanding I wouldn't use it as a main picture of a canonical article, but other than that there isn't any harm keeping it as a profile pic :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:57, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Articles needed citations ==<br />
<br />
I don't know if you've ever looked through [[:Category:Articles needing citation|Articles needing citation]], but it contains 246 articles to which the <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> template has been applied. For the majority of these it appears to be on etymologies; with this is mind, I was wondering whether you (perhaps with [[User:Morgan]]'s help?) might be willing to go through these articles and either add sources or remove/amend the articles as appropriate? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:52, 11 November 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wereworms ==<br />
<br />
There is no image with the wereworms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in tolkien gateway at all.Someone should upload at least an image on tolkien gateway with the wereworms as they appeared in the third Hobbit film.What do you think?<br />
<br />
:Good idea! Go on, as I don't have any pictures from that film. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:00, 1 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As i have said, there is no image with the were-worms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in Tolkien Gateway.Can you upload at least an image on Tolkien Gateway with the were-worms as they appeared on the third Hobbit film? You can find on Internet.I don't have the ability to upload images on Tolkien Gateway generally, but you do have this ability.<br />
<br />
:I haven't even watched the film. Find me an image and I will consider it. Also, consider creating an account here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:13, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes.I already found not only one, but two images:[http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BotFAWereWorms01.jpg this one] and [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/8/85/BOTFA_Wereworm.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150306211236 this one].What do you think? Are these images good or not?<br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].<br />
This place, Trollshaws,appears in the First Hobbit film.You can check it by seeing the movie.I am telling that because [[User:Ederchil]] removes my editing about the Trollshaws in which i say that Trollshaws do appear in the First Hobbit film.You can see it [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&action=history here] or [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&oldid=291125 here]. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
:Please check the others's replies to you, their comments and the edits they do to your edits. The administrators's obligations do NOT include discussing and explaining again ana again their points and correcting the grammar and spelling of our edits. Ederchil said he did this for most of your edits but that can't go on for ever; from a point they will start just reverting your edits, and if you insist, they will block you. As for your edit on Trollshaws, you don't add any useful information (just appearing as in the book isn't something worth to be mentioned) and also you have a grammar mistake, as in almost all of your edits (should be "its role" instead of "'''it's''' role"). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:21, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The IP address of this anon is in Athens. Would you be able to explain in Greek so the user can better understand why their edits are being undone/reverted/amended? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 23:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes I am Greek.I am from Athens.{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
In case you don't know it,I have already found not one, but two images about the wereworms as they were depicted in the Hobbit film Trilogy:[http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BotFAWereWorms01.jpg this one] and [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/8/85/BOTFA_Wereworm.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150306211236 this one].I found these images a week ago.So, what do you think? Are these images good or not? --[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 00:26, 13 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
:Oi sygkekrimenes den einai poly kales. Na ftiaxeis logariasmo melous wste na mporeis na dhmiourgeis arthra kai na anevazeis eikones. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 11:56, 13 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
OK.I have seen that there is no image uploaded on page [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]] about the game with the same name.I have also seen that only a single image about that game is uploaded here on Tolkien Gateway.Can you upoad at least two images (images-posters I suggest) about that game on Tolkien Gateway? I don't have the ability to upload inages in Tolkien Gateway, but you do have this ability. --[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 21:47, 13 January 2017 (UTC)</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Middle-earth:_Shadow_of_Mordor&diff=291370Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor2017-01-13T21:42:40Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Voice cast */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{incomplete}}<br />
{{video game infobox<br />
<br />
| image = <br />
| name = Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor<br />
| developer = [[Monolith Productions]]<br />
| publisher = [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]]<br />
| platform = PC, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Xbox One<br />
| releasedate = [[30 September]] [[2014]]<br />
| genre = [[wikipedia:Action role-playing|Action role-playing]]<br />
| modes =<br />
| rating =<br />
| distribution =<br />
}}<br />
'''''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor''''' is an open world action-adventure video game, published by [[Monolith Productions]]. Released in 2014, the story takes place between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', acting as a bridge between the two eras. The protagonist's name is Talion, a [[Gondorian]] [[Ranger]] stationed at the [[Black Gate]]. Talion's family is slain the night the Dark Lord [[Sauron]] and his [[Uruk-Hai]] forces return to reclaim [[Mordor]], setting the Ranger on a quest for revenge after he is possessed and sustained from death by a mysterious [[Wraith]].<br />
<br />
==Plot Synopsis==<br />
<br />
The family of Talion, a ranger who guards the black gates into Mordor, is brutally killed by the black hand of Sauron. Talion is also killed but is brought back to life merged with a wraith that gives him inhuman powers. He ventures into Mordor to exact revenge and to help the wraith find his past identity and what brings the two together. <br />
<br />
== Gameplay ==<br />
<br />
''Shadow of Mordor'' is an open-world action/adventure game that is set entirely within Mordor. The overworld is mainly populated by [[Uruk-hai|Uruks]], as well as never-before-seen creatures, such as the cat-like Caragors and troll-like Graugs.<br />
<br />
One defining feature of the game is the Nemesis System, which allows the game to remember Uruks of a certain notability and track their progress as they rise from lowly soldiers to high-ranking captains and even war-chiefs. Most of these Uruks are randomly-generated and can vary in appearance, name, personality, and strengths/weaknesses. the Captains can randomly be found among the anonymous masses, though the war-chiefs can only be encountered by completing certain objectives to draw them out of hiding.<br />
<br />
There are a number of tactics and strategies that can be exploited to kill Uruks: In addition to killing them in normal combat, one can also poison a nearby barrel of grog and let Uruk-hai drink from it, grapple them and throw them over the edge of a cliff or platform, set Caragors loose on them by breaking open their cages, launch sneak attacks from above or behind, or "brand" Uruks with the Wraith's powers to brainwash them and pit them against other Orcs.<br />
<br />
== Voice cast ==<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"<br />
! Role !! Actor<br />
|-<br />
| [[Talion]] || [[Troy Baker]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Celebrimbor|The Wraith]] || [[Alister Duncan]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Black Hand]] || [[Nolan North]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Sauron]] || [[Steve Blum]] <br />
|-<br />
| Torvin || [[Adam Croasdell]] <br />
|-<br />
| Ioreth || [[Laura Bailey]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Gollum]] || [[Liam O'Brien]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Galadriel]] || [[Jennifer Hale]]<br />
|-<br />
| Queen Marwen || [[Claudia Black]]<br />
|-<br />
| Dirhael || [[Jack Quaid]] <br />
|-<br />
| [[Saruman]] || [[Roger Jackson]]<br />
|-<br />
| Ship Captain || [[Jason Connery ]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices ||[[Yuri Lowenthal]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices || [[JB Blanc]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices || [[Chris Cox]] <br />
|}<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[:Category:Images from Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor|Images from Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
* '''[http://www.shadowofmordor.com/agegate/ Official website]'''<br />
{{Videogames}}<br />
{{title|italic}}<br />
[[Category:Action games]]<br />
[[Category:Adventure games]]<br />
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]<br />
[[Category:Open world games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 3 games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 4 games]]<br />
[[Category:Role playing games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox One games]]<br />
[[Category:Warner Bros. Interactive games]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Yuri_Lowenthal&diff=291355Yuri Lowenthal2017-01-13T00:55:09Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Roles */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Yuri Lowenthal''' ([[5 March|March 5]], [[1971]]) is an American voice actor, author and artist. His primary field of work is anime dubbing; he has lent his voice to popular series as ''[[wikipedia:Naruto|Naruto]]'', ''[[wikipedia:Bleach (manga)|Bleach]]'' and ''[[wikipedia:Hellsing|Hellsing]]''.<br />
==Roles==<br />
* [[2014]]: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'' - Additional voices <br />
* [[2011]]: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]'' - [[Frodo Baggins]]<br />
* [[2009]]: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Conquest]]'' - [[Frodo Baggins]], Elven officer, Rohan officer<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
* '''[http://www.yurilowenthal.com/home.html Official website]'''<br />
* {{WP|Yuri Lowenthal}}<br />
* [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0523180/ Yuri Lowenthal] at [http://www.imdb.com/ IMDb]<br />
* [http://voicechasers.com/database/showactor.php?actorid=5421 Yuri Lowenthal] at [http://voicechasers.com/ VoiceChasers]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Actors and actresses|Lowenthal, Yuri]]<br />
[[Category:American people|Lowenthal, Yuri]]<br />
[[Category:People by name|Lowenthal, Yuri]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Middle-earth:_Shadow_of_Mordor&diff=291354Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor2017-01-13T00:55:04Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Voice cast */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{incomplete}}<br />
{{video game infobox<br />
<br />
| image = <br />
| name = Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor<br />
| developer = [[Monolith Productions]]<br />
| publisher = [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]]<br />
| platform = PC, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Xbox One<br />
| releasedate = [[30 September]] [[2014]]<br />
| genre = [[wikipedia:Action role-playing|Action role-playing]]<br />
| modes =<br />
| rating =<br />
| distribution =<br />
}}<br />
'''''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor''''' is an open world action-adventure video game, published by [[Monolith Productions]]. Released in 2014, the story takes place between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', acting as a bridge between the two eras. The protagonist's name is Talion, a [[Gondorian]] [[Ranger]] stationed at the [[Black Gate]]. Talion's family is slain the night the Dark Lord [[Sauron]] and his [[Uruk-Hai]] forces return to reclaim [[Mordor]], setting the Ranger on a quest for revenge after he is possessed and sustained from death by a mysterious [[Wraith]].<br />
<br />
==Plot Synopsis==<br />
<br />
The family of Talion, a ranger who guards the black gates into Mordor, is brutally killed by the black hand of Sauron. Talion is also killed but is brought back to life merged with a wraith that gives him inhuman powers. He ventures into Mordor to exact revenge and to help the wraith find his past identity and what brings the two together. <br />
<br />
== Gameplay ==<br />
<br />
''Shadow of Mordor'' is an open-world action/adventure game that is set entirely within Mordor. The overworld is mainly populated by [[Uruk-hai|Uruks]], as well as never-before-seen creatures, such as the cat-like Caragors and troll-like Graugs.<br />
<br />
One defining feature of the game is the Nemesis System, which allows the game to remember Uruks of a certain notability and track their progress as they rise from lowly soldiers to high-ranking captains and even war-chiefs. Most of these Uruks are randomly-generated and can vary in appearance, name, personality, and strengths/weaknesses. the Captains can randomly be found among the anonymous masses, though the war-chiefs can only be encountered by completing certain objectives to draw them out of hiding.<br />
<br />
There are a number of tactics and strategies that can be exploited to kill Uruks: In addition to killing them in normal combat, one can also poison a nearby barrel of grog and let Uruk-hai drink from it, grapple them and throw them over the edge of a cliff or platform, set Caragors loose on them by breaking open their cages, launch sneak attacks from above or behind, or "brand" Uruks with the Wraith's powers to brainwash them and pit them against other Orcs.<br />
<br />
== Voice cast ==<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"<br />
! Role !! Actor<br />
|-<br />
| [[Talion]] || [[Troy Baker]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Celebrimbor|The Wraith]] || [[Alister Duncan]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Black Hand]] || [[Nolan North]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Sauron]] || [[Steve Blum]] <br />
|-<br />
| Torvin || [[Adam Croasdell]] <br />
|-<br />
| Ioreth || [[Laura Bailey]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Gollum]] || [[Liam O'Brien]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Galadriel]] || [[Jennifer Hale]]<br />
|-<br />
| Queen Marwen || [[Claudia Black]]<br />
|-<br />
| Dirhael || [[Jack Quaid]] <br />
|-<br />
| [[Saruman]] || [[Roger Jackson]]<br />
|-<br />
| Ship Captain || [[Jason Connery ]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices ||[[Yuri Lowenthal]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices || [[JB Blanc]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices || [[Chris Cox]] <br />
|}<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
* '''[http://www.shadowofmordor.com/agegate/ Official website]'''<br />
{{Videogames}}<br />
{{title|italic}}<br />
[[Category:Action games]]<br />
[[Category:Adventure games]]<br />
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]<br />
[[Category:Open world games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 3 games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 4 games]]<br />
[[Category:Role playing games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox One games]]<br />
[[Category:Warner Bros. Interactive games]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Alister_Duncan&diff=291353Alister Duncan2017-01-13T00:35:06Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Roles */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Alastair Neil Duncan''' (born [[1958]]) is a Scottish actor.<br />
==Roles==<br />
* [[2014]]: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'' - [[Celebrimbor|Wraith]]<br />
* [[2003]]: ''[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|The Hobbit]]'' - [[Kíli]], Additional voices<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
* {{WP|Alastair Duncan (actor)}}<br />
* [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0241885/ Alastair Duncan] at [http://www.imdb.com/ IMDb]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Actors and actresses|Duncan, Alister]]<br />
[[Category:British people|Duncan, Alister]]<br />
[[Category:People by name|Duncan, Alister]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sage&diff=291352User talk:Sage2017-01-13T00:31:39Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Discussion */</p>
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<div>{{w|Hyarion|[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]}}<br />
==Tale of Years==<br />
It's a known fact that the Tale of Years is full of mistakes, however, most of these were corrected in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th anniversary edition]]. That should be included as well. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:54, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Standards==<br />
We should really include this in the welcome message, but just FYI: [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style]]. This is in reference to your use of "LotR" in [[Gildor|Gildor Inglorion]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:39, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Elves ==<br />
<br />
What published works say that elves are taller?<br />
<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 20:58, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:from the Appendices: <br />
*the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed<br />
<br />
:Since the writer of the Appendices is a Man, and his readers are also Men, why would he describe the Eldar as tall and not as short?<br />
<br />
:Some characters, both Elves and Men are mentioned to be tall, and I understand these can be understood as 'relativistic'; for example you can say that the Eldar were tall relative to the other Elves, but still shorter than Men (although this explanation is quite tentative, and plausible only if you ''want'' to prove that Elves were shorter). I skimmed through the Silmarillion and saw that while the people of Marach are said to be tall, and while other men described as tall such as Galdor the Tall, most references were about Elves. <br />
:*Ingwë the High King, golden-haired and tall<br />
:*The seven sons of Fëanáro were Maedhros the tall...<br />
:*their sister was Ar-feiniel the White. She was younger in the years of the Eldar than her brothers; and when she was grown to full stature and beauty she was tall and strong<br />
:*[Thingol] tallest of all the Children of Ilúvatar<br />
:*But Eöl, though stooped by his smithwork, was no Dwarf, but a tall Elf of a high kin of the Teleri<br />
:*[Maeglin] was tall and black-haired; his eyes were dark<br />
<br />
:I don't argue that the assumption that more Elves than Men tended to be tall, can be proben by a statistical analysis. However if Elves are shorter, why Thingol was to be the tallest of all Elves and Men, and not some Man? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Well, Tolkien stated that elves and men were at first "of a like size" (that is probably the best description in the whole legendarium for their size difference) in the BOLT2. If this is true, whether they became smaller in later ages or not, Thingol could easily be the tallest of all the Children of Iluvatar, but that doesn't mean that most elves were taller than men. Also, more elves are described as tall in the Silmarillion than men because the Silmarillion was almost all about elves, and the very few central character men that were in it were often described as tall, such as Tuor and Turin, as were many men of later ages, especially of Numenorian decent.<br />
<br />
While the elves may not be shorter than men in general, I do not think it can be said with certainty that they are taller. By the way, can we make a real talk page/forum for this?<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:48, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I am new here, I don't know the process so be my guest. But as a last note, I also remember in BOLT 1 that Elves are shorter, and I was shocked. Furthermore, I think I also read a comment that this idea was later dropped. Anyway I hope you are aware that the BOLT books take place in a different 'continuity' and shouldn't be considered as guides for the general canon. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:51, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Perhaps they shouldn't be considered canon, but from '''''Tolkien's Legendarium; Essays on The History of Middle-earth'''''; "...there are Tolkien's latest thoughts, his best thoughts, and his published thoughts and these are not necessarily the same."<br />
That is probably the wisest analysis that I have ever read about the world of Middle earth.<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:31, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Amras==<br />
<br />
Hi and welcome to TG (I never "officially" got to greet you). [[Amras]] now. I know it is not much what you wrote, but please don't do it again in the future when you see that "claimed" tag. I am asking this of you as nice as I can and I can only hope that you'll understand it. I know you saw a mistake and wanted to correct it, but keep in mind that all the Sons will get rewritten by me to the last word in those articles, so all the errors will be fixed. It is just a matter of time. There are over 7000 articles here. I'm sure there's plenty of work for all of us. All the best! :) ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 05:24, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yes I know you are asking it nicely (I am not of those hot-tempered people who frown at each scolding :P) and I understand. But last time I asked I was told its usage was mainly to avoid edit conflicts and loss of data, therefore it's not always that ''bad'' to edit minimally those articles in the meantime (of course there is a problem with larger edits). So my edit was to make sure that you wouldn't miss that mistake and leave it there intact. Anyway I won't do this again (at least with your claimed articles :)). I trust you will do a good work. Namarie :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:41, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::My bad for that. I voiced my personal opinion. Like I said, guidelines are too grey. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 06:58, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: Sage - It's a good thing at least one of us isn't from that kind of hot-tempered people :)) If you won't agree with something I'll write in future articles (for various reasons, like better knowledge of the text), feel free to drop me a message and corrections will be made, promise. Ederchil - There's no such thing as "my bad" here. :) Thank you both for understanding. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 13:52, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Dwarf names==<br />
A couple of things... there are several etymological theories about the Dwarf-names in the ''Dvergatal''. Therefore, I think it's important to state the source of the translation, and add others as well. Also, place Etymolgies above Genealogies, and use double ", not '. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:49, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Right away [[User:Sage|Sage]] 04:50, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::And maybe it's handy to mention the language as well, re: [[Arkenstone]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 10:20, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Meetings ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to [[Forum:Meetings|here]]. We are currently discussing the idea of a weekly site meeting. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:11, 7 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Individual Tengwar==<br />
Since you're listing the Westron names, you should really mention ''Report from Marquette'' by Jim Allan among the references. Even if you haven't read it. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:07, 15 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
Hiya. Just a note: <nowiki><ref> tags don't work unless you include a <references/> section at the end (or rather, a <small><references></small> section). </nowiki>-- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:02, 22 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==[[:Template:HM]]==<br />
Any thoughts? Other than "Expand to include LotR, S, H and UT" and "Add chapters"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Next Meeting ==<br />
<br />
It is planned that we hold our next meeting on the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 April 2009|5<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 April 2009|here]].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: Geia!==<br />
Geia sou kai esena! dystyxws den to exw to allo vivlio tou Tsouli alla to xw diavasei... o typos einai kamenos.<br />
<br />
Xairomai pou kai alloi ellhnares diavazoun Tolkien kai grafoun so Tolkien Gateway. Kai se eixa dei polles fores sto Recent changes kai den hxera oti eisai ellhnas... nomizw pws sou eixa grapsei ena talk page se kapoio athro sta agglika... [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 15:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Next Meeting==<br />
<br />
Sorry to clutter up your talk page, but just informing you about the next meeting. It is planned that we hold our next meeting on '''Monday''' the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/13 April 2009|13<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/13 April 2009|here]]. Remember that it's on Easter Monday, not Easter Sunday. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Xristos Anesth==<br />
Xristos Anesth re patriwth! xronia polla![[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 08:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Multiple language words==<br />
Just a question how to deal with words that exist in multiple languages - [[Tur]], [[Tûr]], [[Aran]] for example. What layout do we use? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Orcs==<br />
Exw dei edw kai kairo oti psaxnete gia contributors stin selida twn Orcs. Loipon, ama psaxnete akomh endiaferomai egw na voithisw giati ta goustarw poly ta Orcs. Oti idees exeis pes mou. [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 14:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Tengwar==<br />
A lot of the tengwar pages require specific fonts, and people that don't have those fonts installed get gibberish. How about a template at the top, saying "for optimal reading, this page requires any of the following fonts"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==[[Common Eldarin|CE]] "3"==<br />
I see you use the 3 to represent the [[wikipedia:Yogh|yogh]]/ʒ. If you look at the edittools bar ("Insert:") at the bottom, you can see the actual symbol next to the dagger symbol. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Amrod]] (and [[Amras]]) ==<br />
<br />
You’re not wrong in what you added to the etymology of that name (although ''Ambaráto'' is the Telerin form, appropriate for Aegnor, whereas Amrod would of course have the Quenya form ''Ambarto''), but unfortunately it makes the messed up alignment of names that was already there even worse. Have a look at what I wrote on the Talk pages of both twins, and see if you can follow what I argue. Feel free to get back to me (or add to the Talk pages) when you got problems. But I think probably the time has come to untangle the mess and reorganise both articles (on the twins). I would be glad of your opinion on that. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:40, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Upcoming Meeting ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering if you wanted to attend an upcoming meeting this Sunday. If you can make, please [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/27 June 2010|sign up]]. Thanks! --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Cirth/Angerthas ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering why you moved Angerthas Daeron, Angerthas Erebor and Angerthas Moria to [[Cirth/Angerthas Daeron]], [[Cirth/Angerthas Erebor]] and [[Cirth/Angerthas Moria]] respectively? It seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me (especially as no article links directly to these three), and I'm not sure what they mean as subtitles: are they meant to be subpages of [[Cirth]] or are you just indicating in the titles that "''cirth''" can be used as another name for "''angerthas''"? Would you object if I were to move them back to their original articles? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:22, 7 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==New words==<br />
Hi Sage! Sorry to trespass your linguistic ground by creating an article for ''[[Mae]]''. Since you have more experience on this field, do you have any thoughts on what I did on the page? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:31, 28 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Meeting - Sunday 5th September ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Sage! Just a quick message to inform you that we are holding our next [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings|Meeting]] on [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010|Sunday, 5<sup>th</sup> September 2010]] at 7pm [[wikipedia:UTC|UTC]]. Whether you are or aren't able to attend, please sign your name on the [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 September 2010|here]]. Hope to see you on Sunday! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Meeting - Sunday 3rd October ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage - do you reckon you'll be available for [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|tomorrow's meeting]]? It would be good to see you there! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A Few Issues ==<br />
<br />
Just a few things I think you should know about:<br />
* This may seem trivial, but could you make sure that you end your sentences in a full-stop?<br />
* When quoting, you should indicate such with quotation marks, otherwise it is technically plagiarism.<br />
* With regards to references, [[Template:References]] has to be at the bottom of the article, or else they won't work (see [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Amon_Amarth&curid=1115&oldid=128927 this], for example).<br />
* Also re: referencing, could you make sure you include page numbers for all publications save for ''The Hobbit'', ''The Lord of the Rings'', ''The Silmarillion'' and ''The Unfinished Tales''; in particular, '' A Readers' Companion'' has only one pagination so there is no need to omit page numbers.<br />
**I am using a copy of ''Nomenclature'' that was handed to me before the Companion was published, so I can't know the pages. In any case I think it is not necessary, since the Nomenclature is arranged like a dictionary. If that's a problem, then I should reference simply "Nomenclature" instead. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* There's no need to remove interwiki links (unless they are incorrect).<br />
**You mean the links to other languages? That must be by accident, I didn't meddle with those. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Also, I really must ask that you don't move articles unless there is clear reason, and when you do, use the Move button at the top of the page, and don't copy and paste. The problem with copying and pasting is that it separates an article from its history and therefore obscures its development. Obviously, if the article is spelt incorrectly, is clearly under an under-used name, or uses our old verbose disambiguation system, you can move it without debate, but otherwise it's best to just do a quick message on the talk page (and if no one replies assume it's safe to proceed).<br />
**I try to separate English-named articles from Elvish-named articles. My personal rule of thumb is that the main article is under the English name; the Elvish articles have a link to the main article, and linguistic/etymological notes. When I see e.g. both Silvertine and Zirakzigil redirect to Celebdil, the best thing I can do is replace the redirects with actual content, and copy the bulk of the text to the one that fits most; I can't put an explanation of "tine" in the article for Celebdil, and I can't create an article for Silvertine only to put this explanation. The 'Move' action was unavailable because the target was occupied by the redirects. I understand that copying instead of moving must cause such issues, but while in the fever of adding etymologies and encountering these obstacles, I confess that the issues you mentioned seemed trivial at that moment *blush* [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Disambiguation pages should only include the actual articles which require disambiguating - etymological information (other than a brief description in the opening line) should be seeded into the individual articles.<br />
**I fail to understand the reason. Why should the etymology of the name "Hurin" be copied to the five articles of the five individuals called Hurin and not in the single disambiguation page? In similar cases I'd write the full etymology in the disambig page and in the individual articles put a "See Hurin (disambiguation)" link under "Etymology". It seems cleaner and tidier that way. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Re: categorisation. There is no point categorising articles in categories which don't exist; it does nothing and just puts a redlink at the bottom of the page. Creation categories (and categorising them), is exactly the same as creation (and categorising) articles. (See [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Oathbreakers&oldid=128044 this] for the redlink.)<br />
None of the above is meant in vitriol, rudeness, admonition or patronisation: it's just a few pointers to make sure that TG conforms to the very highest standards to be something we can all be proud of. Do keep up the work, here - you are a ''very'' valued contributor. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:08, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Also, be sure to follow the advice given {{Redlink|[[Portal:Locations/Category tree|here]]}} on the Locations category structure. It seems a lot of editors don't understand the structure I put in place, that page should go some way in explaining what to do (if unsure, just ask me :) ). --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:56, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== File:Beleriand-eriador-fonstad.png ==<br />
[[File:Steven White Jr. - ME FA 02.gif|thumb|right|150px]]<br />
Hi there. Can you please tell me whose maps you used to create the compound map? The basic Beleriand map is obviously the one derived by me (with the cut-outs where the forst labels are in CT's original map) when I first attempted to join CT's maps at Mount Himring. See an earlier sketch of said map on the right. I wonder how that ended up on the web at all...<br />
[[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 23:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi there. I made this composition some years ago, using elements from various maps I had found online. My purpose was to portray a "sunken" Beleriand with the 3rd Age outline of Lindon, and Fonstad's North. It seems that I used your composite map as a base (yes, the one where you have Himring marked in red). When I edited the map recently in order to upload it, I had a [[Wikipedia:false memory|false memory]] that my base had been Fonstad's Arda map, including the shores and outlines; but now that you made me check again, I saw that the southern shoreline as she envisioned it, differs greatly from this one. It turns out that the greater part of this map is your work. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 01:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You mean the one on the right? Where did you find that? The file is almost 10 years old and I had forgotten about it. I later adjusted the southern coastline, as can be seen on the map in my user page. Those were the days before Photoshop :-) Maybe I should get into the mapmaking business again. My clash with the Tolkien Estate is 6 years back, after all. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 07:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I had a newer version of that map of yours, part of a big collection of fan-made maps I had downloaded from fansites. I think this one was on Tolkienion.com? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Ah, that may be. I had to remove the maps section of the Tolkienion when I got in trouble over the maps. However, the maps still exist [http://7a6972656f5f74637568.killerhor.net/index2.php?framesource=indexframe.php here]. But the map you used is not there. I have lost a couple of maps when I had a hard drive failure a few years back. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 13:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Elvish roots/stems==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. I have a question about how to interpret a specific form often occurring in the ''Etymologies''. For example, for the base AK-, the form *''akrā'' appears, after which follows the Quenya and Noldorin forms. Now, my question is: what is the form *''akrā'' supposed to signify? Primitive Quendian? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 13:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for the quick answer (for other editors, see [[User talk:Morgan#Roots]])! I hope you don't mind that I have some related questions (I suggest that you answer here, since that makes it easier to follow the conversation):<br />
#Which form should we use as title for these articles? ÁLAT- or just ÁLAT? I've noticed that earlier root articles omit the hyphen. Is this intentional? I started to include the hyphens in the articles I just created, since this is how they appear in the ''Etymologies''.<br />
**I guess the hyphens indicate that the roots are not complete words. Since this is one of the definitions of a root, and '''all''' roots have one, I consider trivial such an indication. If you look at Ardalambion or linguistic discussions in the mailing lists, there is no hyphen. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#How should we think about the e/ë question in Quenya words? Should the name of the article be, for example, aiwe or aiwë?<br />
**I am against using the diaereses for several reasons, but I think the TG prefers to include them. A couple of Quenya articles I wrote were renamed by some other editor. In any case, I never use them :D [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***According to Fauskanger, "''Tolkien often uses the diaeresis (two dots as in Manwë) to clarify the pronunciation of Elvish names for readers of English, but it is hardly ever used in the Etymologies, a work that was never intended for wider circulation.''" ([http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/index/indexs.htm]). Perhaps this is a good reason to actually use the diaereses? Or is it possible for you to explain the reasons against using them? I just noticed the issue in the article on ''[[yáve]]''. I found out that the spelling ''yávë'' is used in ''The Silmarillion'' (appendix) - isn't then this the more "proper" (canonical?) spelling? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#A general linguistic remark: right now, the standard on TG is to use the past tense in article text which is "inside" the legendarium. However, in linguistic texts (such as etymology sections and "dictionary" articles on specific words) we always use the present tense. Is there a reason behind these different uses? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:51, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
**I see that languages, as abstract entities, are outside of time. Once a language exists, its vocabulary and rules will always "exist", even if the language itself is dead or ancient. For example everyone says "Amor in Latin means love" rather than "meant". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***Good point. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Dots===<br />
The dots signify nothing to Quenya itself. Tolkien in his personal writings (and the Elves) did not use dots. Its quite different from the accents which '''are''' significant to the language and denote a long vowel; yave and yáve would be two different words, with different pronunciation, and different Tengwar spelling.<br><br />
On the contrary, the dots don't exist in the language and are of course not represented in tengwar. Tolkien invented them for the published books only to visually assist the occasional English readers to remember that ''e'' is pronounced. In fact, all ''e''s in Quenya are pronounced but the English (or French, who also has silent ''e''s) reader perhaps needs such a reminder. yáve and yávë are not different spellings, they are exactly the same thing, only that yávë is perhaps more visually helpful for the English (or the French).<br><br />
The reason '''not''' to use the dots, besides being not a part of the language, is that it's quite more complicated to write and search in the wiki for ''yávë'' than ''yáve''.<br><br />
And if I may mention, in Albanian ''ë'' signifies a silent ''e'', so it would have the contrary effect to an Albanian reader :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am personally in favour of the diaereses: this is an English-language website aimed at those who know English - diaereses have a clear meaning in English which I think it is important to maintain. Furthermore, should we be over-ruling the Professor's use of diaereses? <br />
<br />
:The problem of typing/searching can be solved by redirects. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:31, 2 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree with Mith, I think we should use Yávë, with Yáve as redirects. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]]<br />
::I'd argue that the Professor used the diaereses with publication in mind, not as a rule-not-to-be-over-ruled; or else such forms would be seen in HoMe. It would be interested to bring the matter up in the forum, what do you say? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 20:03, 4 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I don't know if a publication post-mortem can really be conclusive evidence either way of the professor's intentions. However, as you point out, the Professor included diaereses with publication in mind and he never had HOME in mind for publication (and if he did we can't know that he wouldn't have gone through adding diaereses). I think it's a moot point, really. <br />
:::Furthermore, is it not confusing to readers not so well-versed in Tolkienian linguistics to encounter words lacking diaereses where they think they should see them? (I notice, for instance, that many scholars retain diaereses where Tolkien uses them.)<br />
:::I know it can be hard for non-native speakers of English to understand, but the diaereses really is a valuable tool in aiding pronunciation amongst native speakers (remember Cate Blanchett's "''The light of Erendil''"!), and, contrary to popular belief amongst some (non-native speakers) scholars, it is understand by many: words such as coöperate, continuüm, reëlect, zoölogy and naïve as well as names like Chloë, Zaïre, Boötes, and the Brontë Sisters. Notwithstanding the above, I would still support the use of diaereses as a distinguishing feature of unusualness: in English, any form of diacritic signifies "''I am a foreign word.''" - it creates an aura of intrigue and mystery which I wouldn't wish to lose.<br />
:::It would be good if you could attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 December 2010|the meeting today]], I've added this issue on the list of things to discuss. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:44, 5 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Elvish/PQ==<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to this question of mine: [[Talk:ÁS-AT]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Second Age Globe ==<br />
<br />
As you pointed out, I completely forgot that Arda wasn't made round until the end of the Second Age. I really like the images you put together for the First Age and Third Age globes as I used in my [[User:KingAragorn/Sandbox|sandbox]] for the location portal. Would it be possible for you to create a Second Age globe in the same style? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Boromir and Beornings==<br />
Hello Sage! Just drawing you attention to [[Talk:Boromir#Etymology]] and [[Talk:Beornings]], where I discuss your edits.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Use of asterisk==<br />
I noted that you use both single and double asterisks in the article on [[Valaraukar]]. I think the use needs to be explained, either by making the asterisks into links (as was my initial idea), or, as can be seen here [[Talk:*]], where [[User:Mith]] is of the opinion that we should avoid the use of asterisk altogether. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 15:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am not sure on what you want me to comment [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::What does the double asterisk (**) signify? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The double asterisk is explained in [[asterisk]] :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:00, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Oh, thank you! :) Then I'll go ahead and make internal links for the asterisks (at least for the time being - since there is a debate on wether we should use asterisks or not). (BTW, don't you find it more convenient to keep a conversation to one talk page? It tends to get confusing having to switch between talk pages when following a conversation.) /Cheers --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Taniquetil ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! On this article I removed the redlinks as I find redlinks ugly whilst showing to the reader where our holes are (and giving false hope that those articles may exist); I personally think redlinks shouldn't be created unless you expect to create the article ''yourself'' or have a realistic expectation that someone else will do so soon. Are you intending on creating articles for ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, personally I don't think redlinks ugly and I consider them only 'work to be done in the future'. For example, if someone ever will create an article for "nique", he will have to manually trace every page containing the word and wikify it. I believe redlinks can be useful by the "Wanted Pages" of the "What links here" features. But I respect the different aesthetics about the wiki. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:02, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I accept that - and indeed agree - so long as it ''is'' "work to be done in the future" and not just "work someone else ''might'' do at some point"; if an article never gets created the redlink serves no useful function. We have 6690 wanted pages (of which a good chunk are linguistic ones) - a figure which is increasing and not decreasing - so the work isn't really getting done; in the meeting last September I argued, "''let's be honest, they probably aren't all articles waiting to happen''".<br />
::The problem is especially true for linguistic articles because it's such a specialised area there are very few people who know enough to edit those articles and even fewer who are happy to do so, therefore you can't ever realistically expect anyone to ever create those articles. Are you planning on creating links to ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:23, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Well I will have in mind to complete immediately the articles I wikify from now on. I will try to work on complete trees and their related pages when possible. Don't worry about that. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:46, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==PQ/PE==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage! I need help on the following: should "Proto-Eldarin" be redirected to Primitive Quendian or Common Eldarin? Or do you think Proto-Eldarin have its own article ([http://reocities.com/athens/parthenon/9902/langlst.html Lisa Star] says that it sometimes seem to refer to PQ and sometimes to CE)? I've tried (without success) to find this term in Tolkien's writings.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Obviously Proto-Eldarin is not an attested form, but a term originating before Tolkien's writings about Primitive Quendian were published, and before any details about the Eldar vs Avari were known. I think it is safe to redirect it to Common Eldarin. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:37, 6 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Etymology of ''Sauron''==<br />
Sage, do you have ideas/comments on how we should present the etymology of the name ''Sauron'' on Tolkien Gateway? Having investigated it a bit, a complete version is [[User:Morgan/Sandbox6|more complicated]] than what I think could be presented on a general wiki article. As I understand it, Tolkien struggled with deriving ''Sauron'' either from Sindarin ''thaur'' (PE:17, p. 183; EQS), or giving the name a Quenya derivation (''saura'' "cruel") ultimately deriving from a base THAW (PE:17, p. 184; Letter 297). --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
:We can mention both derivations from ''saura'' and ''thaur''. It seems like it is needed an entry on the word ''[[saura]]'' which seems to have suffered most under Tolkien's revisions, and provide them in its article. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks - I've added the info to our Sauron etymology section.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Letter 427==<br />
Hi Sage, I just saw you added {{redlink|[[Letter 427]]}} as a reference to [[-nguo]]. This letter does however not exist, could you look into this and add the correct letter? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Legendary locations==<br />
Ah! I had forgotten about the Last Desert - it's a good addition to the template. I'm sure there are some others I haven't thought about.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:14, 30 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Images ==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. As you probably know, I've been sorting out images on TG and making sure that they all have the proper file licensing templates. I'm sure that you will agree that this is a mammoth task; therefore I would like to ask for your help sorting out the images that you've uploaded. Please see below for a list of files that need sorting and/or checking.<br />
<br />
You noted on these images that they were public domain, so I've put a PD template on them. However, we need to know the author's name so that they can be categorised and named properly.<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Rumil2.gif.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Elemm.gif]]}}<br />
:The author made those as spontaneous doodles. He is not a professional and doesn't pursue any credit, and as far as I know he wouldn't like to have his name published online either. I wonder if we can support the option to name some files as "Anonymous" [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Please check these maps and decide whether you, [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] (her estate or publisher, I don't know), or someone else owns the copyright. You'll notice that on some I've guessed and put on a file licensing template, but please check them.<br />
:The maps I have marked with an asterisk are derivatives of (usually) Fonstad's works, therefore I don't have the authority to grant any permission to publish them under any term. I think that we should track Fonstad's copyright holders. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Almaren.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Evolution of Arda.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Reunited Kingdom.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Middle-earth.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:1050.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1105.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1115.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1125.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1132.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1149.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1150.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1200.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1300.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1350.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1498.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1129.png]]*<br />
*{{redlink|File:Belfalas 2nd Age.jpg}} (NB: I tried to contact [[Andreas Möhn]] but his e-mail bounced)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Beleriand and Eriador collage.png]] <br />
:this is a collage of maps by Fonstad, Raw and User:Smeagol [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Location of Numenor.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Great Plague.png]]<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Pan-route.png]]}}*<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Overhill-route.png]]}}*<br />
*[[:File:Pauline Baynes - The Little Kingdom.jpg]]<br />
:this is a map by Pauline Baynes, therefore it should take the template that other Baynes' images do. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I've put an unknown copyright status on these miscellaneous images. Please identify the copyright holder and conact them for permission. If you want me to contact them, just ask.<br />
:I do believe that it would be better if you include these in your existing work. You have better experience in this and you will do quicker and better than if we shared the work. However I will put notes to help you [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:PP banner.jpg]]<br />
:this is a derivative of collective work by members of the GTS. You can contact them from their Facebook page. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Michael Gaydos - TolkienWilliamsLewis.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Daniel reeve.jpg]]}}<br />
:the picture was taken from a package of maps by Decipher. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwafrune.gif}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwarfrunes.JPEG}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dansmith.png}}<br />
:these pictures were taken by Dan Smith's font site. FYI I contacted him once but he didn't reply [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Mani and Sol.jpg]]<br />
:I took the image from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M%C3%A1ni_and_S%C3%B3l_by_Lorenz_Fr%C3%B8lich.jpg here]. It belongs in the PD. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Alex lewis.jpg]]}}<br />
:this picture was taken by members of the GTS at Oxonmoot (I think 2002). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Idril.gif]]}}<br />
:I will try to contact MB and ask him if we can use his heraldry here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Steve Notley - Bob the Angry Flower's Lord of the Ringz.gif]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Gift.jpg]]}}<br />
:This was made by the Hildebrandts [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Brothers Hildebrandt - Return of the King.jpg]]}} (NB: I will try to contact Greg Hildebrandt)<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Cave.jpg]]}}<br />
:Made by Wenzel, however I don't know what's the copyright and if he gave permission for this [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Many thanks for your help!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 10:50, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thanks for the info. I shall grow through them at some point.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Buckland==<br />
See [[Talk:Buckland]]. In no primary source does it talk about Buckland becoming part of the Shire (it does for the Westmarch, however). Indeed "Eastmarch" is not mentioned, but "East March" is (only once).--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Category:Greco-Romance names ==<br />
<br />
Hey Sage. [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012|At the meeting just gone]] we discussed your [[:Category:Greco-Roman names|Category:Greco-Romance names]]. You may have noticed that I moved it (because I thought that you have made a spelling mistake). You can read the discussion [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012/Transcript|here]]. As you can see, we decided that it would be best to diffuse the category into "Romanic names" and "Ancient Greek names". Are you happy with this? If so, could you sort it out?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Please have a look at [[Category talk:Greco-Roman names]] [[User:Sage|Sage]] 23:49, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Westlands==<br />
I just noticed that your reference in [[Westlands]] didn't work as the parameter "X1" doesn't exist in [[Template:SD]]. I've changed it to "XI" (Epilogue). Was this correct or did you use another chapter as source? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 16:39, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Oops! yes, that's correct :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 19:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Alatar and Pallando==<br />
<br />
Sage, do you know of any good linguistic analysis of the names ''Alatar'' and ''Pallando''? I made a quick search, but couldn't find any -- surely it must have been discussed in VT or PE? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:No, other than the lotr.wikia.com speculates that Pallando is related to palan/palla [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:54, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::{{UT|Istari}}, Note 6 says: "''Pallando'', despite the spelling, perhaps contains ''palan'' 'afar', as in ''palantír'' and in ''Palarran'' 'Far Wanderer', the name of Aldarion's ship." This is C.R.T.'s speculation for Pallando, could we speculate Alatar's etymology? Or should we just say that it's unknown?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Yes we could. There is ''alata'' "great", ''al(a)-'' "blessed" with ''atar'' "father" or ''tar'' "high one" and so on. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Right. Just to make a note of it, Encylopedia of Arda also suggests that ''Alatar'' can be interpreted as "after-comer" [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/alatar.html].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:43, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Category:Angicised Westron words ==<br />
<br />
Are you going to make ''[[Special:WantedCategories|Category:Angicised Westron words]]''?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Maps==<br />
Who made these maps?<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:At the crossroads map.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Over hill.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Short Rest.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Roast Mutton.png]]}}--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:32, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:They are croppings from [[:File:Mith01.jpg|this map]] but since they would take the unknown-copyright tag anyway, I didn't bother to add more information for that moment. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:35, 3 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lenition/Mutation==<br />
Hello Sage! I noticed that we have no separate page for mutation in Sindarin (like we have for [[lenition]]). Do you reckon such a page could be useful, or do you know if we have any other article to which mutation can be redirected? Thanks --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:23, 12 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==The "Hobbit" week==<br />
Sage, do you have any thoughts about this: can the "archaic" names of the days of the week be said to be Westron, and the later names to be Hobbitish (Kuduk)? I'm just thinking of how to categorize the names according to language.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The names ''Monendei'' and so are Middle English and can be considered "Middle Westron" according to [https://sites.google.com/site/endorenya/language-periodizations this project]. The modern day names ''Monday'' etc can be considered regular developments in "modern" Westron, but I don't think we can tell how much they are proper, or Hobbitish Westron. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:34, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:For example, I am not sure if "Trewsday" was the name also used by the Rangers, Gondorians, Gandalf, etc, or whether they would say *"Treesday". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:37, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Wintring==<br />
Thanks for correcting my silly edit at the Wintring article, Sage! :-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:41, 18 November 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bain pic ==<br />
<br />
Since there don't seem to be any other images of Bain on the site (yet), is there really any harm in keeping the shot from "The Desolation of Smaug" as his 'profile pic,' so to speak? --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 03:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:According to my own personal understanding I wouldn't use it as a main picture of a canonical article, but other than that there isn't any harm keeping it as a profile pic :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:57, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Articles needed citations ==<br />
<br />
I don't know if you've ever looked through [[:Category:Articles needing citation|Articles needing citation]], but it contains 246 articles to which the <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> template has been applied. For the majority of these it appears to be on etymologies; with this is mind, I was wondering whether you (perhaps with [[User:Morgan]]'s help?) might be willing to go through these articles and either add sources or remove/amend the articles as appropriate? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:52, 11 November 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wereworms ==<br />
<br />
There is no image with the wereworms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in tolkien gateway at all.Someone should upload at least an image on tolkien gateway with the wereworms as they appeared in the third Hobbit film.What do you think?<br />
<br />
:Good idea! Go on, as I don't have any pictures from that film. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:00, 1 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As i have said, there is no image with the were-worms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in Tolkien Gateway.Can you upload at least an image on Tolkien Gateway with the were-worms as they appeared on the third Hobbit film? You can find on Internet.I don't have the ability to upload images on Tolkien Gateway generally, but you do have this ability.<br />
<br />
:I haven't even watched the film. Find me an image and I will consider it. Also, consider creating an account here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:13, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes.I already found not only one, but two images:[http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BotFAWereWorms01.jpg this one] and [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/8/85/BOTFA_Wereworm.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150306211236 this one].What do you think? Are these images good or not?<br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].<br />
This place, Trollshaws,appears in the First Hobbit film.You can check it by seeing the movie.I am telling that because [[User:Ederchil]] removes my editing about the Trollshaws in which i say that Trollshaws do appear in the First Hobbit film.You can see it [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&action=history here] or [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&oldid=291125 here]. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
:Please check the others's replies to you, their comments and the edits they do to your edits. The administrators's obligations do NOT include discussing and explaining again ana again their points and correcting the grammar and spelling of our edits. Ederchil said he did this for most of your edits but that can't go on for ever; from a point they will start just reverting your edits, and if you insist, they will block you. As for your edit on Trollshaws, you don't add any useful information (just appearing as in the book isn't something worth to be mentioned) and also you have a grammar mistake, as in almost all of your edits (should be "its role" instead of "'''it's''' role"). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:21, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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::The IP address of this anon is in Athens. Would you be able to explain in Greek so the user can better understand why their edits are being undone/reverted/amended? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 23:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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Yes I am Greek.I am from Athens.{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
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In case you don't know it,I have already found not one, but two images about the wereworms as they were depicted in the Hobbit film Trilogy:[http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BotFAWereWorms01.jpg this one] and [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/8/85/BOTFA_Wereworm.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150306211236 this one].I found these images a week ago.So, what do you think? Are these images good or not? --[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 00:26, 13 January 2017 (UTC)</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sage&diff=291351User talk:Sage2017-01-13T00:29:38Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Discussion */</p>
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<div>{{w|Hyarion|[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]}}<br />
==Tale of Years==<br />
It's a known fact that the Tale of Years is full of mistakes, however, most of these were corrected in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th anniversary edition]]. That should be included as well. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:54, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Standards==<br />
We should really include this in the welcome message, but just FYI: [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style]]. This is in reference to your use of "LotR" in [[Gildor|Gildor Inglorion]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:39, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Elves ==<br />
<br />
What published works say that elves are taller?<br />
<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 20:58, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:from the Appendices: <br />
*the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed<br />
<br />
:Since the writer of the Appendices is a Man, and his readers are also Men, why would he describe the Eldar as tall and not as short?<br />
<br />
:Some characters, both Elves and Men are mentioned to be tall, and I understand these can be understood as 'relativistic'; for example you can say that the Eldar were tall relative to the other Elves, but still shorter than Men (although this explanation is quite tentative, and plausible only if you ''want'' to prove that Elves were shorter). I skimmed through the Silmarillion and saw that while the people of Marach are said to be tall, and while other men described as tall such as Galdor the Tall, most references were about Elves. <br />
:*Ingwë the High King, golden-haired and tall<br />
:*The seven sons of Fëanáro were Maedhros the tall...<br />
:*their sister was Ar-feiniel the White. She was younger in the years of the Eldar than her brothers; and when she was grown to full stature and beauty she was tall and strong<br />
:*[Thingol] tallest of all the Children of Ilúvatar<br />
:*But Eöl, though stooped by his smithwork, was no Dwarf, but a tall Elf of a high kin of the Teleri<br />
:*[Maeglin] was tall and black-haired; his eyes were dark<br />
<br />
:I don't argue that the assumption that more Elves than Men tended to be tall, can be proben by a statistical analysis. However if Elves are shorter, why Thingol was to be the tallest of all Elves and Men, and not some Man? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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Well, Tolkien stated that elves and men were at first "of a like size" (that is probably the best description in the whole legendarium for their size difference) in the BOLT2. If this is true, whether they became smaller in later ages or not, Thingol could easily be the tallest of all the Children of Iluvatar, but that doesn't mean that most elves were taller than men. Also, more elves are described as tall in the Silmarillion than men because the Silmarillion was almost all about elves, and the very few central character men that were in it were often described as tall, such as Tuor and Turin, as were many men of later ages, especially of Numenorian decent.<br />
<br />
While the elves may not be shorter than men in general, I do not think it can be said with certainty that they are taller. By the way, can we make a real talk page/forum for this?<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:48, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I am new here, I don't know the process so be my guest. But as a last note, I also remember in BOLT 1 that Elves are shorter, and I was shocked. Furthermore, I think I also read a comment that this idea was later dropped. Anyway I hope you are aware that the BOLT books take place in a different 'continuity' and shouldn't be considered as guides for the general canon. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:51, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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Perhaps they shouldn't be considered canon, but from '''''Tolkien's Legendarium; Essays on The History of Middle-earth'''''; "...there are Tolkien's latest thoughts, his best thoughts, and his published thoughts and these are not necessarily the same."<br />
That is probably the wisest analysis that I have ever read about the world of Middle earth.<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:31, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Amras==<br />
<br />
Hi and welcome to TG (I never "officially" got to greet you). [[Amras]] now. I know it is not much what you wrote, but please don't do it again in the future when you see that "claimed" tag. I am asking this of you as nice as I can and I can only hope that you'll understand it. I know you saw a mistake and wanted to correct it, but keep in mind that all the Sons will get rewritten by me to the last word in those articles, so all the errors will be fixed. It is just a matter of time. There are over 7000 articles here. I'm sure there's plenty of work for all of us. All the best! :) ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 05:24, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yes I know you are asking it nicely (I am not of those hot-tempered people who frown at each scolding :P) and I understand. But last time I asked I was told its usage was mainly to avoid edit conflicts and loss of data, therefore it's not always that ''bad'' to edit minimally those articles in the meantime (of course there is a problem with larger edits). So my edit was to make sure that you wouldn't miss that mistake and leave it there intact. Anyway I won't do this again (at least with your claimed articles :)). I trust you will do a good work. Namarie :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:41, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::My bad for that. I voiced my personal opinion. Like I said, guidelines are too grey. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 06:58, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::: Sage - It's a good thing at least one of us isn't from that kind of hot-tempered people :)) If you won't agree with something I'll write in future articles (for various reasons, like better knowledge of the text), feel free to drop me a message and corrections will be made, promise. Ederchil - There's no such thing as "my bad" here. :) Thank you both for understanding. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 13:52, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Dwarf names==<br />
A couple of things... there are several etymological theories about the Dwarf-names in the ''Dvergatal''. Therefore, I think it's important to state the source of the translation, and add others as well. Also, place Etymolgies above Genealogies, and use double ", not '. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:49, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Right away [[User:Sage|Sage]] 04:50, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::And maybe it's handy to mention the language as well, re: [[Arkenstone]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 10:20, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Meetings ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to [[Forum:Meetings|here]]. We are currently discussing the idea of a weekly site meeting. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:11, 7 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Individual Tengwar==<br />
Since you're listing the Westron names, you should really mention ''Report from Marquette'' by Jim Allan among the references. Even if you haven't read it. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:07, 15 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==References==<br />
Hiya. Just a note: <nowiki><ref> tags don't work unless you include a <references/> section at the end (or rather, a <small><references></small> section). </nowiki>-- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:02, 22 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==[[:Template:HM]]==<br />
Any thoughts? Other than "Expand to include LotR, S, H and UT" and "Add chapters"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Next Meeting ==<br />
<br />
It is planned that we hold our next meeting on the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 April 2009|5<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 April 2009|here]].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Re: Geia!==<br />
Geia sou kai esena! dystyxws den to exw to allo vivlio tou Tsouli alla to xw diavasei... o typos einai kamenos.<br />
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Xairomai pou kai alloi ellhnares diavazoun Tolkien kai grafoun so Tolkien Gateway. Kai se eixa dei polles fores sto Recent changes kai den hxera oti eisai ellhnas... nomizw pws sou eixa grapsei ena talk page se kapoio athro sta agglika... [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 15:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Next Meeting==<br />
<br />
Sorry to clutter up your talk page, but just informing you about the next meeting. It is planned that we hold our next meeting on '''Monday''' the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/13 April 2009|13<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/13 April 2009|here]]. Remember that it's on Easter Monday, not Easter Sunday. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Xristos Anesth==<br />
Xristos Anesth re patriwth! xronia polla![[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 08:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Multiple language words==<br />
Just a question how to deal with words that exist in multiple languages - [[Tur]], [[Tûr]], [[Aran]] for example. What layout do we use? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Orcs==<br />
Exw dei edw kai kairo oti psaxnete gia contributors stin selida twn Orcs. Loipon, ama psaxnete akomh endiaferomai egw na voithisw giati ta goustarw poly ta Orcs. Oti idees exeis pes mou. [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 14:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Tengwar==<br />
A lot of the tengwar pages require specific fonts, and people that don't have those fonts installed get gibberish. How about a template at the top, saying "for optimal reading, this page requires any of the following fonts"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==[[Common Eldarin|CE]] "3"==<br />
I see you use the 3 to represent the [[wikipedia:Yogh|yogh]]/ʒ. If you look at the edittools bar ("Insert:") at the bottom, you can see the actual symbol next to the dagger symbol. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Amrod]] (and [[Amras]]) ==<br />
<br />
You’re not wrong in what you added to the etymology of that name (although ''Ambaráto'' is the Telerin form, appropriate for Aegnor, whereas Amrod would of course have the Quenya form ''Ambarto''), but unfortunately it makes the messed up alignment of names that was already there even worse. Have a look at what I wrote on the Talk pages of both twins, and see if you can follow what I argue. Feel free to get back to me (or add to the Talk pages) when you got problems. But I think probably the time has come to untangle the mess and reorganise both articles (on the twins). I would be glad of your opinion on that. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:40, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Upcoming Meeting ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering if you wanted to attend an upcoming meeting this Sunday. If you can make, please [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/27 June 2010|sign up]]. Thanks! --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Cirth/Angerthas ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering why you moved Angerthas Daeron, Angerthas Erebor and Angerthas Moria to [[Cirth/Angerthas Daeron]], [[Cirth/Angerthas Erebor]] and [[Cirth/Angerthas Moria]] respectively? It seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me (especially as no article links directly to these three), and I'm not sure what they mean as subtitles: are they meant to be subpages of [[Cirth]] or are you just indicating in the titles that "''cirth''" can be used as another name for "''angerthas''"? Would you object if I were to move them back to their original articles? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:22, 7 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==New words==<br />
Hi Sage! Sorry to trespass your linguistic ground by creating an article for ''[[Mae]]''. Since you have more experience on this field, do you have any thoughts on what I did on the page? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:31, 28 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Meeting - Sunday 5th September ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Sage! Just a quick message to inform you that we are holding our next [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings|Meeting]] on [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010|Sunday, 5<sup>th</sup> September 2010]] at 7pm [[wikipedia:UTC|UTC]]. Whether you are or aren't able to attend, please sign your name on the [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 September 2010|here]]. Hope to see you on Sunday! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Meeting - Sunday 3rd October ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage - do you reckon you'll be available for [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|tomorrow's meeting]]? It would be good to see you there! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== A Few Issues ==<br />
<br />
Just a few things I think you should know about:<br />
* This may seem trivial, but could you make sure that you end your sentences in a full-stop?<br />
* When quoting, you should indicate such with quotation marks, otherwise it is technically plagiarism.<br />
* With regards to references, [[Template:References]] has to be at the bottom of the article, or else they won't work (see [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Amon_Amarth&curid=1115&oldid=128927 this], for example).<br />
* Also re: referencing, could you make sure you include page numbers for all publications save for ''The Hobbit'', ''The Lord of the Rings'', ''The Silmarillion'' and ''The Unfinished Tales''; in particular, '' A Readers' Companion'' has only one pagination so there is no need to omit page numbers.<br />
**I am using a copy of ''Nomenclature'' that was handed to me before the Companion was published, so I can't know the pages. In any case I think it is not necessary, since the Nomenclature is arranged like a dictionary. If that's a problem, then I should reference simply "Nomenclature" instead. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* There's no need to remove interwiki links (unless they are incorrect).<br />
**You mean the links to other languages? That must be by accident, I didn't meddle with those. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Also, I really must ask that you don't move articles unless there is clear reason, and when you do, use the Move button at the top of the page, and don't copy and paste. The problem with copying and pasting is that it separates an article from its history and therefore obscures its development. Obviously, if the article is spelt incorrectly, is clearly under an under-used name, or uses our old verbose disambiguation system, you can move it without debate, but otherwise it's best to just do a quick message on the talk page (and if no one replies assume it's safe to proceed).<br />
**I try to separate English-named articles from Elvish-named articles. My personal rule of thumb is that the main article is under the English name; the Elvish articles have a link to the main article, and linguistic/etymological notes. When I see e.g. both Silvertine and Zirakzigil redirect to Celebdil, the best thing I can do is replace the redirects with actual content, and copy the bulk of the text to the one that fits most; I can't put an explanation of "tine" in the article for Celebdil, and I can't create an article for Silvertine only to put this explanation. The 'Move' action was unavailable because the target was occupied by the redirects. I understand that copying instead of moving must cause such issues, but while in the fever of adding etymologies and encountering these obstacles, I confess that the issues you mentioned seemed trivial at that moment *blush* [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Disambiguation pages should only include the actual articles which require disambiguating - etymological information (other than a brief description in the opening line) should be seeded into the individual articles.<br />
**I fail to understand the reason. Why should the etymology of the name "Hurin" be copied to the five articles of the five individuals called Hurin and not in the single disambiguation page? In similar cases I'd write the full etymology in the disambig page and in the individual articles put a "See Hurin (disambiguation)" link under "Etymology". It seems cleaner and tidier that way. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Re: categorisation. There is no point categorising articles in categories which don't exist; it does nothing and just puts a redlink at the bottom of the page. Creation categories (and categorising them), is exactly the same as creation (and categorising) articles. (See [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Oathbreakers&oldid=128044 this] for the redlink.)<br />
None of the above is meant in vitriol, rudeness, admonition or patronisation: it's just a few pointers to make sure that TG conforms to the very highest standards to be something we can all be proud of. Do keep up the work, here - you are a ''very'' valued contributor. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:08, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Also, be sure to follow the advice given {{Redlink|[[Portal:Locations/Category tree|here]]}} on the Locations category structure. It seems a lot of editors don't understand the structure I put in place, that page should go some way in explaining what to do (if unsure, just ask me :) ). --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:56, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== File:Beleriand-eriador-fonstad.png ==<br />
[[File:Steven White Jr. - ME FA 02.gif|thumb|right|150px]]<br />
Hi there. Can you please tell me whose maps you used to create the compound map? The basic Beleriand map is obviously the one derived by me (with the cut-outs where the forst labels are in CT's original map) when I first attempted to join CT's maps at Mount Himring. See an earlier sketch of said map on the right. I wonder how that ended up on the web at all...<br />
[[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 23:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi there. I made this composition some years ago, using elements from various maps I had found online. My purpose was to portray a "sunken" Beleriand with the 3rd Age outline of Lindon, and Fonstad's North. It seems that I used your composite map as a base (yes, the one where you have Himring marked in red). When I edited the map recently in order to upload it, I had a [[Wikipedia:false memory|false memory]] that my base had been Fonstad's Arda map, including the shores and outlines; but now that you made me check again, I saw that the southern shoreline as she envisioned it, differs greatly from this one. It turns out that the greater part of this map is your work. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 01:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::You mean the one on the right? Where did you find that? The file is almost 10 years old and I had forgotten about it. I later adjusted the southern coastline, as can be seen on the map in my user page. Those were the days before Photoshop :-) Maybe I should get into the mapmaking business again. My clash with the Tolkien Estate is 6 years back, after all. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 07:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I had a newer version of that map of yours, part of a big collection of fan-made maps I had downloaded from fansites. I think this one was on Tolkienion.com? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::Ah, that may be. I had to remove the maps section of the Tolkienion when I got in trouble over the maps. However, the maps still exist [http://7a6972656f5f74637568.killerhor.net/index2.php?framesource=indexframe.php here]. But the map you used is not there. I have lost a couple of maps when I had a hard drive failure a few years back. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 13:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Elvish roots/stems==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. I have a question about how to interpret a specific form often occurring in the ''Etymologies''. For example, for the base AK-, the form *''akrā'' appears, after which follows the Quenya and Noldorin forms. Now, my question is: what is the form *''akrā'' supposed to signify? Primitive Quendian? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 13:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for the quick answer (for other editors, see [[User talk:Morgan#Roots]])! I hope you don't mind that I have some related questions (I suggest that you answer here, since that makes it easier to follow the conversation):<br />
#Which form should we use as title for these articles? ÁLAT- or just ÁLAT? I've noticed that earlier root articles omit the hyphen. Is this intentional? I started to include the hyphens in the articles I just created, since this is how they appear in the ''Etymologies''.<br />
**I guess the hyphens indicate that the roots are not complete words. Since this is one of the definitions of a root, and '''all''' roots have one, I consider trivial such an indication. If you look at Ardalambion or linguistic discussions in the mailing lists, there is no hyphen. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#How should we think about the e/ë question in Quenya words? Should the name of the article be, for example, aiwe or aiwë?<br />
**I am against using the diaereses for several reasons, but I think the TG prefers to include them. A couple of Quenya articles I wrote were renamed by some other editor. In any case, I never use them :D [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***According to Fauskanger, "''Tolkien often uses the diaeresis (two dots as in Manwë) to clarify the pronunciation of Elvish names for readers of English, but it is hardly ever used in the Etymologies, a work that was never intended for wider circulation.''" ([http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/index/indexs.htm]). Perhaps this is a good reason to actually use the diaereses? Or is it possible for you to explain the reasons against using them? I just noticed the issue in the article on ''[[yáve]]''. I found out that the spelling ''yávë'' is used in ''The Silmarillion'' (appendix) - isn't then this the more "proper" (canonical?) spelling? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#A general linguistic remark: right now, the standard on TG is to use the past tense in article text which is "inside" the legendarium. However, in linguistic texts (such as etymology sections and "dictionary" articles on specific words) we always use the present tense. Is there a reason behind these different uses? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:51, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
**I see that languages, as abstract entities, are outside of time. Once a language exists, its vocabulary and rules will always "exist", even if the language itself is dead or ancient. For example everyone says "Amor in Latin means love" rather than "meant". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***Good point. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Dots===<br />
The dots signify nothing to Quenya itself. Tolkien in his personal writings (and the Elves) did not use dots. Its quite different from the accents which '''are''' significant to the language and denote a long vowel; yave and yáve would be two different words, with different pronunciation, and different Tengwar spelling.<br><br />
On the contrary, the dots don't exist in the language and are of course not represented in tengwar. Tolkien invented them for the published books only to visually assist the occasional English readers to remember that ''e'' is pronounced. In fact, all ''e''s in Quenya are pronounced but the English (or French, who also has silent ''e''s) reader perhaps needs such a reminder. yáve and yávë are not different spellings, they are exactly the same thing, only that yávë is perhaps more visually helpful for the English (or the French).<br><br />
The reason '''not''' to use the dots, besides being not a part of the language, is that it's quite more complicated to write and search in the wiki for ''yávë'' than ''yáve''.<br><br />
And if I may mention, in Albanian ''ë'' signifies a silent ''e'', so it would have the contrary effect to an Albanian reader :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am personally in favour of the diaereses: this is an English-language website aimed at those who know English - diaereses have a clear meaning in English which I think it is important to maintain. Furthermore, should we be over-ruling the Professor's use of diaereses? <br />
<br />
:The problem of typing/searching can be solved by redirects. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:31, 2 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::I agree with Mith, I think we should use Yávë, with Yáve as redirects. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]]<br />
::I'd argue that the Professor used the diaereses with publication in mind, not as a rule-not-to-be-over-ruled; or else such forms would be seen in HoMe. It would be interested to bring the matter up in the forum, what do you say? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 20:03, 4 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I don't know if a publication post-mortem can really be conclusive evidence either way of the professor's intentions. However, as you point out, the Professor included diaereses with publication in mind and he never had HOME in mind for publication (and if he did we can't know that he wouldn't have gone through adding diaereses). I think it's a moot point, really. <br />
:::Furthermore, is it not confusing to readers not so well-versed in Tolkienian linguistics to encounter words lacking diaereses where they think they should see them? (I notice, for instance, that many scholars retain diaereses where Tolkien uses them.)<br />
:::I know it can be hard for non-native speakers of English to understand, but the diaereses really is a valuable tool in aiding pronunciation amongst native speakers (remember Cate Blanchett's "''The light of Erendil''"!), and, contrary to popular belief amongst some (non-native speakers) scholars, it is understand by many: words such as coöperate, continuüm, reëlect, zoölogy and naïve as well as names like Chloë, Zaïre, Boötes, and the Brontë Sisters. Notwithstanding the above, I would still support the use of diaereses as a distinguishing feature of unusualness: in English, any form of diacritic signifies "''I am a foreign word.''" - it creates an aura of intrigue and mystery which I wouldn't wish to lose.<br />
:::It would be good if you could attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 December 2010|the meeting today]], I've added this issue on the list of things to discuss. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:44, 5 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Elvish/PQ==<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to this question of mine: [[Talk:ÁS-AT]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Second Age Globe ==<br />
<br />
As you pointed out, I completely forgot that Arda wasn't made round until the end of the Second Age. I really like the images you put together for the First Age and Third Age globes as I used in my [[User:KingAragorn/Sandbox|sandbox]] for the location portal. Would it be possible for you to create a Second Age globe in the same style? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Boromir and Beornings==<br />
Hello Sage! Just drawing you attention to [[Talk:Boromir#Etymology]] and [[Talk:Beornings]], where I discuss your edits.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Use of asterisk==<br />
I noted that you use both single and double asterisks in the article on [[Valaraukar]]. I think the use needs to be explained, either by making the asterisks into links (as was my initial idea), or, as can be seen here [[Talk:*]], where [[User:Mith]] is of the opinion that we should avoid the use of asterisk altogether. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 15:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am not sure on what you want me to comment [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::What does the double asterisk (**) signify? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The double asterisk is explained in [[asterisk]] :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:00, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Oh, thank you! :) Then I'll go ahead and make internal links for the asterisks (at least for the time being - since there is a debate on wether we should use asterisks or not). (BTW, don't you find it more convenient to keep a conversation to one talk page? It tends to get confusing having to switch between talk pages when following a conversation.) /Cheers --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Taniquetil ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! On this article I removed the redlinks as I find redlinks ugly whilst showing to the reader where our holes are (and giving false hope that those articles may exist); I personally think redlinks shouldn't be created unless you expect to create the article ''yourself'' or have a realistic expectation that someone else will do so soon. Are you intending on creating articles for ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, personally I don't think redlinks ugly and I consider them only 'work to be done in the future'. For example, if someone ever will create an article for "nique", he will have to manually trace every page containing the word and wikify it. I believe redlinks can be useful by the "Wanted Pages" of the "What links here" features. But I respect the different aesthetics about the wiki. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:02, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I accept that - and indeed agree - so long as it ''is'' "work to be done in the future" and not just "work someone else ''might'' do at some point"; if an article never gets created the redlink serves no useful function. We have 6690 wanted pages (of which a good chunk are linguistic ones) - a figure which is increasing and not decreasing - so the work isn't really getting done; in the meeting last September I argued, "''let's be honest, they probably aren't all articles waiting to happen''".<br />
::The problem is especially true for linguistic articles because it's such a specialised area there are very few people who know enough to edit those articles and even fewer who are happy to do so, therefore you can't ever realistically expect anyone to ever create those articles. Are you planning on creating links to ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:23, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Well I will have in mind to complete immediately the articles I wikify from now on. I will try to work on complete trees and their related pages when possible. Don't worry about that. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:46, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==PQ/PE==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage! I need help on the following: should "Proto-Eldarin" be redirected to Primitive Quendian or Common Eldarin? Or do you think Proto-Eldarin have its own article ([http://reocities.com/athens/parthenon/9902/langlst.html Lisa Star] says that it sometimes seem to refer to PQ and sometimes to CE)? I've tried (without success) to find this term in Tolkien's writings.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Obviously Proto-Eldarin is not an attested form, but a term originating before Tolkien's writings about Primitive Quendian were published, and before any details about the Eldar vs Avari were known. I think it is safe to redirect it to Common Eldarin. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:37, 6 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Etymology of ''Sauron''==<br />
Sage, do you have ideas/comments on how we should present the etymology of the name ''Sauron'' on Tolkien Gateway? Having investigated it a bit, a complete version is [[User:Morgan/Sandbox6|more complicated]] than what I think could be presented on a general wiki article. As I understand it, Tolkien struggled with deriving ''Sauron'' either from Sindarin ''thaur'' (PE:17, p. 183; EQS), or giving the name a Quenya derivation (''saura'' "cruel") ultimately deriving from a base THAW (PE:17, p. 184; Letter 297). --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
:We can mention both derivations from ''saura'' and ''thaur''. It seems like it is needed an entry on the word ''[[saura]]'' which seems to have suffered most under Tolkien's revisions, and provide them in its article. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks - I've added the info to our Sauron etymology section.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Letter 427==<br />
Hi Sage, I just saw you added {{redlink|[[Letter 427]]}} as a reference to [[-nguo]]. This letter does however not exist, could you look into this and add the correct letter? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Legendary locations==<br />
Ah! I had forgotten about the Last Desert - it's a good addition to the template. I'm sure there are some others I haven't thought about.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:14, 30 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Images ==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. As you probably know, I've been sorting out images on TG and making sure that they all have the proper file licensing templates. I'm sure that you will agree that this is a mammoth task; therefore I would like to ask for your help sorting out the images that you've uploaded. Please see below for a list of files that need sorting and/or checking.<br />
<br />
You noted on these images that they were public domain, so I've put a PD template on them. However, we need to know the author's name so that they can be categorised and named properly.<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Rumil2.gif.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Elemm.gif]]}}<br />
:The author made those as spontaneous doodles. He is not a professional and doesn't pursue any credit, and as far as I know he wouldn't like to have his name published online either. I wonder if we can support the option to name some files as "Anonymous" [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Please check these maps and decide whether you, [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] (her estate or publisher, I don't know), or someone else owns the copyright. You'll notice that on some I've guessed and put on a file licensing template, but please check them.<br />
:The maps I have marked with an asterisk are derivatives of (usually) Fonstad's works, therefore I don't have the authority to grant any permission to publish them under any term. I think that we should track Fonstad's copyright holders. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Almaren.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Evolution of Arda.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Reunited Kingdom.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Middle-earth.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:1050.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1105.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1115.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1125.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1132.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1149.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1150.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1200.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1300.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1350.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1498.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1129.png]]*<br />
*{{redlink|File:Belfalas 2nd Age.jpg}} (NB: I tried to contact [[Andreas Möhn]] but his e-mail bounced)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Beleriand and Eriador collage.png]] <br />
:this is a collage of maps by Fonstad, Raw and User:Smeagol [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Location of Numenor.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Great Plague.png]]<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Pan-route.png]]}}*<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Overhill-route.png]]}}*<br />
*[[:File:Pauline Baynes - The Little Kingdom.jpg]]<br />
:this is a map by Pauline Baynes, therefore it should take the template that other Baynes' images do. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I've put an unknown copyright status on these miscellaneous images. Please identify the copyright holder and conact them for permission. If you want me to contact them, just ask.<br />
:I do believe that it would be better if you include these in your existing work. You have better experience in this and you will do quicker and better than if we shared the work. However I will put notes to help you [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:PP banner.jpg]]<br />
:this is a derivative of collective work by members of the GTS. You can contact them from their Facebook page. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Michael Gaydos - TolkienWilliamsLewis.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Daniel reeve.jpg]]}}<br />
:the picture was taken from a package of maps by Decipher. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwafrune.gif}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwarfrunes.JPEG}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dansmith.png}}<br />
:these pictures were taken by Dan Smith's font site. FYI I contacted him once but he didn't reply [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Mani and Sol.jpg]]<br />
:I took the image from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M%C3%A1ni_and_S%C3%B3l_by_Lorenz_Fr%C3%B8lich.jpg here]. It belongs in the PD. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Alex lewis.jpg]]}}<br />
:this picture was taken by members of the GTS at Oxonmoot (I think 2002). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Idril.gif]]}}<br />
:I will try to contact MB and ask him if we can use his heraldry here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Steve Notley - Bob the Angry Flower's Lord of the Ringz.gif]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Gift.jpg]]}}<br />
:This was made by the Hildebrandts [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Brothers Hildebrandt - Return of the King.jpg]]}} (NB: I will try to contact Greg Hildebrandt)<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Cave.jpg]]}}<br />
:Made by Wenzel, however I don't know what's the copyright and if he gave permission for this [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Many thanks for your help!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 10:50, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thanks for the info. I shall grow through them at some point.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Buckland==<br />
See [[Talk:Buckland]]. In no primary source does it talk about Buckland becoming part of the Shire (it does for the Westmarch, however). Indeed "Eastmarch" is not mentioned, but "East March" is (only once).--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Category:Greco-Romance names ==<br />
<br />
Hey Sage. [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012|At the meeting just gone]] we discussed your [[:Category:Greco-Roman names|Category:Greco-Romance names]]. You may have noticed that I moved it (because I thought that you have made a spelling mistake). You can read the discussion [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012/Transcript|here]]. As you can see, we decided that it would be best to diffuse the category into "Romanic names" and "Ancient Greek names". Are you happy with this? If so, could you sort it out?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Please have a look at [[Category talk:Greco-Roman names]] [[User:Sage|Sage]] 23:49, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Westlands==<br />
I just noticed that your reference in [[Westlands]] didn't work as the parameter "X1" doesn't exist in [[Template:SD]]. I've changed it to "XI" (Epilogue). Was this correct or did you use another chapter as source? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 16:39, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Oops! yes, that's correct :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 19:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Alatar and Pallando==<br />
<br />
Sage, do you know of any good linguistic analysis of the names ''Alatar'' and ''Pallando''? I made a quick search, but couldn't find any -- surely it must have been discussed in VT or PE? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:No, other than the lotr.wikia.com speculates that Pallando is related to palan/palla [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:54, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::{{UT|Istari}}, Note 6 says: "''Pallando'', despite the spelling, perhaps contains ''palan'' 'afar', as in ''palantír'' and in ''Palarran'' 'Far Wanderer', the name of Aldarion's ship." This is C.R.T.'s speculation for Pallando, could we speculate Alatar's etymology? Or should we just say that it's unknown?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Yes we could. There is ''alata'' "great", ''al(a)-'' "blessed" with ''atar'' "father" or ''tar'' "high one" and so on. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Right. Just to make a note of it, Encylopedia of Arda also suggests that ''Alatar'' can be interpreted as "after-comer" [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/alatar.html].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:43, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Category:Angicised Westron words ==<br />
<br />
Are you going to make ''[[Special:WantedCategories|Category:Angicised Westron words]]''?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Maps==<br />
Who made these maps?<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:At the crossroads map.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Over hill.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Short Rest.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Roast Mutton.png]]}}--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:32, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:They are croppings from [[:File:Mith01.jpg|this map]] but since they would take the unknown-copyright tag anyway, I didn't bother to add more information for that moment. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:35, 3 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lenition/Mutation==<br />
Hello Sage! I noticed that we have no separate page for mutation in Sindarin (like we have for [[lenition]]). Do you reckon such a page could be useful, or do you know if we have any other article to which mutation can be redirected? Thanks --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:23, 12 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==The "Hobbit" week==<br />
Sage, do you have any thoughts about this: can the "archaic" names of the days of the week be said to be Westron, and the later names to be Hobbitish (Kuduk)? I'm just thinking of how to categorize the names according to language.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The names ''Monendei'' and so are Middle English and can be considered "Middle Westron" according to [https://sites.google.com/site/endorenya/language-periodizations this project]. The modern day names ''Monday'' etc can be considered regular developments in "modern" Westron, but I don't think we can tell how much they are proper, or Hobbitish Westron. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:34, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:For example, I am not sure if "Trewsday" was the name also used by the Rangers, Gondorians, Gandalf, etc, or whether they would say *"Treesday". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:37, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Wintring==<br />
Thanks for correcting my silly edit at the Wintring article, Sage! :-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:41, 18 November 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bain pic ==<br />
<br />
Since there don't seem to be any other images of Bain on the site (yet), is there really any harm in keeping the shot from "The Desolation of Smaug" as his 'profile pic,' so to speak? --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 03:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:According to my own personal understanding I wouldn't use it as a main picture of a canonical article, but other than that there isn't any harm keeping it as a profile pic :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:57, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Articles needed citations ==<br />
<br />
I don't know if you've ever looked through [[:Category:Articles needing citation|Articles needing citation]], but it contains 246 articles to which the <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> template has been applied. For the majority of these it appears to be on etymologies; with this is mind, I was wondering whether you (perhaps with [[User:Morgan]]'s help?) might be willing to go through these articles and either add sources or remove/amend the articles as appropriate? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:52, 11 November 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wereworms ==<br />
<br />
There is no image with the wereworms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in tolkien gateway at all.Someone should upload at least an image on tolkien gateway with the wereworms as they appeared in the third Hobbit film.What do you think?<br />
<br />
:Good idea! Go on, as I don't have any pictures from that film. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:00, 1 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As i have said, there is no image with the were-worms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in Tolkien Gateway.Can you upload at least an image on Tolkien Gateway with the were-worms as they appeared on the third Hobbit film? You can find on Internet.I don't have the ability to upload images on Tolkien Gateway generally, but you do have this ability.<br />
<br />
:I haven't even watched the film. Find me an image and I will consider it. Also, consider creating an account here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:13, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes.I already found not only one, but two images:[http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BotFAWereWorms01.jpg this one] and [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/8/85/BOTFA_Wereworm.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150306211236 this one].What do you think? Are these images good or not?<br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].<br />
This place, Trollshaws,appears in the First Hobbit film.You can check it by seeing the movie.I am telling that because [[User:Ederchil]] removes my editing about the Trollshaws in which i say that Trollshaws do appear in the First Hobbit film.You can see it [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&action=history here] or [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&oldid=291125 here]. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
:Please check the others's replies to you, their comments and the edits they do to your edits. The administrators's obligations do NOT include discussing and explaining again ana again their points and correcting the grammar and spelling of our edits. Ederchil said he did this for most of your edits but that can't go on for ever; from a point they will start just reverting your edits, and if you insist, they will block you. As for your edit on Trollshaws, you don't add any useful information (just appearing as in the book isn't something worth to be mentioned) and also you have a grammar mistake, as in almost all of your edits (should be "its role" instead of "'''it's''' role"). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:21, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The IP address of this anon is in Athens. Would you be able to explain in Greek so the user can better understand why their edits are being undone/reverted/amended? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 23:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes I am Greek.I am from Athens.{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
In case you don't know it,I have already found not one, but two images:[http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BotFAWereWorms01.jpg this one] and [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/8/85/BOTFA_Wereworm.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150306211236 this one].I found these images a week ago.So, what do you think? Are these images good or not? --[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 00:26, 13 January 2017 (UTC)</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Fraser_Kerr&diff=291350Fraser Kerr2017-01-13T00:24:29Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* External links */</p>
<hr />
<div>Scottish actor '''Fraser Kerr''' ([[25 February|February 25]], [[1931]]-[[19 March|March 19]], [[2000]]) provided the voice for [[Saruman|Saruman the White]] in [[The Lord of the Rings (1978 film)]]. <br />
==External links==<br />
* [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0449693/ Fraser Kerr] at IMDb<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kerr, Fraser}}<br />
[[Category:The Lord of the Rings (1978 film) cast]]<br />
[[Category:Actors and actresses]]<br />
[[Category:British people]]<br />
[[Category:People by name]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gilgamesh&diff=291349User talk:Gilgamesh2017-01-13T00:22:10Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{MediaWiki:NewUserMessage|Gilgamesh}}<br />
<br />
== Redirects ==<br />
<br />
Hi there. Thanks for taking your time on filling the alternative names with redirects. However I had other thoughts for them. The alternative names (such as "[[perelda]]" or "[[Singollo]]") should rather be filled with dictionary entries and etymology. I'd better click on [[perelda]] and see a Quenya entry that says it refers to the [[half-elves]] and what it means, rather than be redirected to a narrative article about what half-elves are and their role in history, followed by a generic Etymology section. I am not asking to revert your edits, but simply sharing my initial idea. What do you say? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:01, 28 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've never doubted or opposed the idea. What I'm thinking is, I haven't actually written entries for those, but they ''can'' be written. When you get a redirect, and it redirects you to another article, it also has a link that says "redirected from [redirect]" or something similar. You click that, and edit and change the redirect into an entry. I'm not focusing on every aspect, but that's how it's done. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 08:04, 28 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Quenya Declension==<br />
<br />
''"There has been a recent heavy debate on this at [[Forum:Quenya declension template appearance]]. Since you have weighed on this before, could you weigh in now?" - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]]''<br />
<br />
- On what do you wish for me to comment, there seems to be nought else but an argument with which I was not involved? --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 19:25, 15 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Fair enough. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 19:30, 15 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
On what did you want me to weigh though? I see you guys have made "peace" so I believe all is settled right? --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 01:53, 16 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well, you were one of the ones who gave me feedback about my linguistics edits. I just wanted your opinion on what should be done. For now, I've hidden ''all'' the inflection templates, though they haven't been deleted. I guess we still need to figure out how to handle these details more responsibly. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 04:04, 16 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'll take a look at it all and then we should work out a better system. --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 19:42, 16 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor ==<br />
<br />
I have seen that there is no image about [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]] uploaded on the page with the same name here, on Tolkien Gateway.Can you upload at least two images(Images-posters would be better to upload on this page and that kind of image I would say to upload}on Tolkien Gateway; I don't have the ability to upload inages in Tolkien Gateway, but you do have this ability.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 23:52, 12 January 2017 (UTC)</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gilgamesh&diff=291348User talk:Gilgamesh2017-01-13T00:10:40Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor */ new section</p>
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<div>{{MediaWiki:NewUserMessage|Gilgamesh}}<br />
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== Redirects ==<br />
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Hi there. Thanks for taking your time on filling the alternative names with redirects. However I had other thoughts for them. The alternative names (such as "[[perelda]]" or "[[Singollo]]") should rather be filled with dictionary entries and etymology. I'd better click on [[perelda]] and see a Quenya entry that says it refers to the [[half-elves]] and what it means, rather than be redirected to a narrative article about what half-elves are and their role in history, followed by a generic Etymology section. I am not asking to revert your edits, but simply sharing my initial idea. What do you say? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:01, 28 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've never doubted or opposed the idea. What I'm thinking is, I haven't actually written entries for those, but they ''can'' be written. When you get a redirect, and it redirects you to another article, it also has a link that says "redirected from [redirect]" or something similar. You click that, and edit and change the redirect into an entry. I'm not focusing on every aspect, but that's how it's done. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 08:04, 28 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==Quenya Declension==<br />
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''"There has been a recent heavy debate on this at [[Forum:Quenya declension template appearance]]. Since you have weighed on this before, could you weigh in now?" - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]]''<br />
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- On what do you wish for me to comment, there seems to be nought else but an argument with which I was not involved? --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 19:25, 15 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Fair enough. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 19:30, 15 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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On what did you want me to weigh though? I see you guys have made "peace" so I believe all is settled right? --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 01:53, 16 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Well, you were one of the ones who gave me feedback about my linguistics edits. I just wanted your opinion on what should be done. For now, I've hidden ''all'' the inflection templates, though they haven't been deleted. I guess we still need to figure out how to handle these details more responsibly. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 04:04, 16 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I'll take a look at it all and then we should work out a better system. --{{User:Breragor/sig}} 19:42, 16 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor ==<br />
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I have seen that there is no image about [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]] uploaded on the page with the same name here, on Tolkien Gateway.Can you upload two images,(Images-posters in Tolkien Gateway; I dont have the ability to upload inages in Tolkien Gateway, but you do have the ability.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 23:52, 12 January 2017 (UTC)</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Farmer_Maggot&diff=291347Farmer Maggot2017-01-12T23:48:28Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Radio series */</p>
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<div>{{hobbit infobox<br />
| name=Farmer Maggot<br />
| image=[[File:Henning Janssen - Harvesting Maggots.jpg|250px]]<br />
| caption="Harvesting Maggots" by [[Henning Janssen]]<br />
| pronun=<br />
| othernames=<br />
| titles=<br />
| position=Farmer<br />
| location=[[Bamfurlong]], the [[Marish]]<br />
| affiliation=<br />
| language=<br />
| birth=Late [[Third Age]]<br />
| birthlocation=<br />
| rule=<br />
| death=<br />
| deathlocation=<br />
| age=<br />
| notablefor=<br />
| family=<br />
| parentage=<br />
| siblings=<br />
| spouse=[[Mrs. Maggot]]<br />
| children=Five children (at least)<br />
| gender=Male<br />
| height=<br />
| hair=<br />
| eyes=<br />
| clothing=<br />
| weapons=<br />
| steed=<br />
}}<br />
'''Farmer Maggot''' was a [[Hobbits|Hobbit]] who at the time of the [[War of the Ring]] owned a farm called [[Bamfurlong]]<ref name="Boating">{{AB|2}}</ref> in the [[Marish]] in the [[Eastfarthing]] of [[the Shire]]. Like most inhabitants of the Marish, which was fertile but boggy, Maggot and his family lived in a house instead of a [[Hobbit-holes|hobbit-hole]]. Maggot had a wife, at least two sons and three daughters, plus a few other hobbits who belonged to the farm.<ref name="mushroom">{{FR|I4}}</ref><br />
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Farmer Maggot was a shrewd hobbit who was familiar with [[Tom Bombadil]]<ref name="Boating"/> and friendly to all [[Brandybuck Family|Brandybucks]]. Living in the borderlands Maggot had to be more on his guard than most Hobbits and for protection he kept three huge dogs called [[Grip]], [[Fang (dog)|Fang]], and [[Wolf (dog)|Wolf]].<ref name="mushroom"/><br />
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==History==<br />
When [[Frodo Baggins]] was young he lived in [[Brandy Hall]] and used to sneak into Farmer Maggot's fields to steal [[mushrooms]]. After catching Frodo thieving several times, Maggot finally beat the young mushroom poacher and had his dogs chase Frodo all the way to the [[Bucklebury Ferry]]. Frodo remained terrified of the old farmer and his dogs thereafter.<ref name="mushroom"/><br />
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On [[25 September]] of {{TA|3018}}, Maggot was approached by a [[Nazgûl|Black Rider]] who asked him if he has seen ''[[Baggins Family|Baggins]]''. Maggot told him that the Bagginses were in [[Hobbiton]]. The rider said that this Baggins had left Hobbiton and that he would reward Maggot with gold if he informed him the next time he came. Maggot however, despite the chill this stranger caused him, was enraged by his trespassing and threatened him with his dogs. Though Maggot's dogs yelped and ran, the rider, infuriated by the hobbit's defiance, hissed and left like thunder.<br />
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Later that day Frodo, [[Samwise Gamgee|Sam]] and [[Peregrin Took|Pippin]] came to Maggot's farm. After [[Mrs. Maggot]] served the travelers mugs of beer, Maggot related his story about the stranger. Frodo thanked the farmer for his hospitality and said that they had to hurry along. Maggot then offered the hobbits supper and said that he would take them by wagon to the Ferry thereafter. The invitation was gratefully accepted. <br />
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In the night Maggot and his passengers headed for the Ferry, and they encountered [[Meriadoc Brandybuck|Merry]] looking for them. Upon reaching their destination, Maggot set out for home after giving Frodo a gift from Mrs Maggot. The gift was a basket of mushrooms.<ref name="mushroom"/><br />
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==Etymology==<br />
Tolkien says that the name "Maggot" was a [[Hobbitish]] name whose meaning has been lost in history. ''Maggot'' should not be understood as the English word [[Wikipedia:maggot|maggot]] or larva. The similarity is coincidental.<br />
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==Other Versions of the Legendarium==<br />
In the first phase of writing ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' the visit to Farmer Maggot was roughly the same as the final version, but in a much abbreviated form. Bingo (who would later be named Frodo Baggins) had never stolen mushrooms from Bamfurlong. The farmer had only one small dog named Gip and while he had a wife, no children or other members of the household were mentioned. At the first sight of the dog, Bingo put on his [[The One Ring|Ring]] and stayed invisible during the visit. Odo and Frodo Took (who were later changed into Pippin and Sam) enjoyed a beer while Maggot told them of the visit by the Black Rider. At the end of the story invisible Bingo lifted Maggot's mug and drank his beer, scaring the old farmer who was glad to see the two (visible) hobbits run away. The hobbits did not get a wagon ride to the Ferry nor did they receive any mushrooms.<ref>{{RS|Maggot}}</ref><br />
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When [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] came to write about [[Tom Bombadil]] he toyed with the idea of making Farmer Maggot some other creature than a hobbit, possibly akin to Tom himself.<ref>{{RS|Tom}}</ref> As this notion brewed a line was given to Frodo Took stating that Maggot was "not a hobbit – not a pure hobbit anyway" and that he had hair under his chin.<ref>{{RS|1VIN}}, note 7</ref><br />
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Farmer Maggot changed considerably in the second phase of writing the story, although he was still a hobbit. Now the One Ring was much more dangerous and Bingo was not supposed to wear it frivolously. However, Tolkien still wanted to retain the mysteriously levitating beer mug incident, which meant that Bingo had to wear the Ring in Maggot's house. To justify this the visit to Bamfurlong took on a much darker hue. Young Bingo used to steal mushrooms. One day, in fear of being mauled, he threw a rock at one of the farmer's dogs and killed it. Maggot beat Bingo and told him he would kill him the next time he trespassed, and would have killed him then if Bingo had not belonged to a rich and powerful family. When the hobbits approached the farm, terrified Bingo slipped on the Ring. Inside the house Maggot emphasized his unrelenting hostility toward all Bagginses. Bingo pulls the floating beer mug trick but then berates the bewildered farmer, pushes him into the fire-irons, and makes his hat sail out of the house.<br />
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[[Christopher Tolkien]] commented that the difficulty of keeping the Ring secret eventually killed this version. When the story was rewritten again to make Maggot a shrewd but kindly soul the last of the lighthearted tricks with the Ring was removed from the developing story.<ref>{{RS|Short}}</ref><br />
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In yet another version of the beginning Farmer Maggot's hostility,it was [[Bilbo Baggins|Bilbo]] and Bingo who stumbled onto Maggot's farm one foggy evening. They accidentally got into his garden and Maggot set a great wolf-like dog upon them. Bilbo broke the dog's head to save Bingo from a mauling and Maggot flung Bilbo into a ditch. Maggot threatened to kill Bingo, Bilbo threatened to come back armed, and Maggot said he had a weapon or two himself.<ref>{{RS|2XVIIN}}, note 6</ref><br />
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==Portrayal in adaptations==<br />
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<center><gallery> <br />
File:The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring - Farmer Maggot.png|''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
File:Maggot viv lotr.JPG|[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]<br />
File:Farmer Maggot in LOTRO.png|''[[The Lord of the Rings Online]]''<br />
</gallery></center> <br />
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'''1981: ''[[The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)|BBC Radio's The Lord of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
:[[John Bott]] provided the voice of Farmer Maggot.<br />
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'''2001: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]'':'''<br />
:[[Cameron Rhodes]] portrays Farmer Maggot when he is questioned by a Ringwraith. In a later scene where he chases away the four hobbits from his fields, his voice is provided by sound engineer [[Mike Hopkins]].<br />
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'''2002: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]:'''<br />
:Farmer Maggot appears at the end of the Shire levels.<br />
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== See Also ==<br />
* [[:Category:Images of Farmer Maggot|Images of Farmer Maggot]]<br />
{{references}}<br />
[[Category:Characters in The Lord of the Rings]]<br />
[[Category:Hobbits]]<br />
[[Category:Maggot]]<br />
[[Category:Third Age characters]]<br />
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[[de:Maggot]]<br />
[[fi:Magot]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Middle-earth:_Shadow_of_Mordor&diff=291333Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor2017-01-10T19:56:58Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
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<div>{{incomplete}}<br />
{{video game infobox<br />
<br />
| image = <br />
| name = Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor<br />
| developer = [[Monolith Productions]]<br />
| publisher = [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]]<br />
| platform = PC, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Xbox One<br />
| releasedate = [[30 September]] [[2014]]<br />
| genre = [[wikipedia:Action role-playing|Action role-playing]]<br />
| modes =<br />
| rating =<br />
| distribution =<br />
}}<br />
'''''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor''''' is an open world action-adventure video game, published by [[Monolith Productions]]. Released in 2014, the story takes place between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', acting as a bridge between the two eras. The protagonist's name is Talion, a [[Gondorian]] [[Ranger]] stationed at the [[Black Gate]]. Talion's family is slain the night the Dark Lord [[Sauron]] and his [[Uruk-Hai]] forces return to reclaim [[Mordor]], setting the Ranger on a quest for revenge after he is possessed and sustained from death by a mysterious [[Wraith]].<br />
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==Plot Synopsis==<br />
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The family of Talion, a ranger who guards the black gates into Mordor, is brutally killed by the black hand of Sauron. Talion is also killed but is brought back to life merged with a wraith that gives him inhuman powers. He ventures into Mordor to exact revenge and to help the wraith find his past identity and what brings the two together. <br />
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== Gameplay ==<br />
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''Shadow of Mordor'' is an open-world action/adventure game that is set entirely within Mordor. The overworld is mainly populated by [[Uruk-hai|Uruks]], as well as never-before-seen creatures, such as the cat-like Caragors and troll-like Graugs.<br />
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One defining feature of the game is the Nemesis System, which allows the game to remember Uruks of a certain notability and track their progress as they rise from lowly soldiers to high-ranking captains and even war-chiefs. Most of these Uruks are randomly-generated and can vary in appearance, name, personality, and strengths/weaknesses. the Captains can randomly be found among the anonymous masses, though the war-chiefs can only be encountered by completing certain objectives to draw them out of hiding.<br />
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There are a number of tactics and strategies that can be exploited to kill Uruks: In addition to killing them in normal combat, one can also poison a nearby barrel of grog and let Uruk-hai drink from it, grapple them and throw them over the edge of a cliff or platform, set Caragors loose on them by breaking open their cages, launch sneak attacks from above or behind, or "brand" Uruks with the Wraith's powers to brainwash them and pit them against other Orcs.<br />
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== Voice cast ==<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"<br />
! Role !! Actor<br />
|-<br />
| [[Talion]] || [[Troy Baker]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Celebrimbor|The Wraith]] || [[Alister Duncan]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Black Hand]] || [[Nolan North]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Sauron]] || [[Steve Blum]] <br />
|-<br />
| Torvin || [[Adam Croasdell]] <br />
|-<br />
| Ioreth || [[Laura Bailey]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Gollum]] || [[Liam O'Brien]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Galadriel]] || [[Jennifer Hale]]<br />
|-<br />
| Queen Marwen || [[Claudia Black]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Saruman]] || [[Roger Jackson]]<br />
|-<br />
| Ship Captain || [[Jason Connery ]] <br />
|-<br />
| Additional voices || [[JB Blanc]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices || [[Chris Cox]] <br />
|}<br />
<br />
==History and development==<br />
Development of ''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor'', which took about three years, began in late 2011.<ref>{{cite web|title = Shadow of Mordor Dev Made "Some Pretty Big And Painful Cuts"|url = http://www.gamespot.com/articles/shadow-of-mordor-dev-made-some-pretty-big-and-pain/1100-6424827/|first=Eddie|last=Makuch|work=[[GameSpot]]|date=January 22, 2015|accessdate=July 30, 2015}}</ref> The game's lead developer was [[Monolith Productions]], who had experience on a Middle-earth game with ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''. According to design director Michael de Plater, ''Shadow of Mordor'' was developed in parallel with ''Guardians of Middle-earth'' but handled by a separate team. It was published by [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]].<ref name = "IGNInfo">{{cite web|url=http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/12/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-announced |title=Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Announced |publisher=IGN |date=November 12, 2013 |accessdate=November 20, 2013}}</ref><ref name="IGNWHY">{{cite web|url=http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/02/20/why-lord-of-the-rings-fans-should-be-excited-for-shadow-of-mordor|title=Why Lord of the Rings Fans Should Be Excited for Shadow of Mordor|date=February 20, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> The game was designed by de Plater.<ref name="GI Feature 2">{{cite web|url=http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/11/18/freedom-in-mordor-middle-earth-39-s-next-level-sandbox.aspx|title=Freedom In Mordor: Middle-earth's Next-Level Sandbox|first=Ben|last=Hanson|work=[[Game Informer]]|date=November 18, 2013|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref><br />
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''Shadow of Mordor'' bridges the gap between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', with the team wanting to show iconic elements of the universe in an original way.<ref name="IGNWHY"/> The team had to draw notes on Tolkien's notes and appendices to ensure that their vision for the game would not change the franchise's timeline.<ref name="E3Time"/> Although the game's environment is inspired by the books and films, several places (such as Udûn and the Sea of Nurnen) were re-imagined. Art director Phil Straub considered consistency with the lore and presenting "something visually new" and realistic the most important elements of creating the game, and the team did not incorporate many fantasy elements in its world.<ref name="fantasy GameSpot"/> To create some parts of the game environment, they studied photos of Iceland and New Zealand and yellow stone found worldwide.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pcgamer.com/shadow-of-mordor-interview/|title=Shadow of Mordor interview: lore, exploration and keeping up appearances|first=Shaun |last=Prescott|date=September 19, 2015|accessdate=July 25, 2015|work=[[PC Gamer]]}}</ref> Since ''Shadow of Mordor'' is set before ''The Lord of the Rings'', its landscape is less post-apocalyptic; environments also vary by weather, lighting and atmosphere.<ref name="gi feature1"/><br />
Early in development the team consulted [[Peter Jackson]], director of ''[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|The Lord of the Rings]]'' and ''[[The Hobbit (film series)|The Hobbit]]'' trilogies, who advised them against a film tie-in.<ref name="IGNWHY"/> According to Roberts, the story is designed for accessibility by all players, regardless of their familiarity with the franchise by creating natural interactions and believable relationships among the characters.<ref name="VentureStory"/> Its protagonist is Talion, a half-human, half-wraith inspired by [[Boromir]].<ref name="fantasy GameSpot">{{cite web|url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/shadow-of-mordor-has-only-scratched-the-surface-of/1100-6424332/|title=Shadow of Mordor Has 'Only Scratched the Surface' of Monolith's Middle-earth|first=Alexa|last=Ray Corriea|work=[[GameSpot]]|date=December 20, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/10/real-human-beings-shadow-of-mordor-watch-dogs-and.html|title=Real Human Beings: Shadow of Mordor, Watch Dogs|first=Austin|last=Walker|work=[[Paste Magazine]]|date=October 10, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> In the game, the mysterious wraith is later revealed as [[Celebrimbor]], creator of the [[Rings of Power]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.vg247.com/2014/07/26/talions-wraith-in-middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-is-none-other-than-celebrimbor/|title=Talion’s wraith in Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor is none other than Celebrimbor|first=Stephany |last=Nunneley|work=[[VG247]]|date=July 26, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> The development team picked Celebrimbor because they considered his backstory sufficiently interesting to expand the canon's authenticity, allowing the team to write a story around power (a major theme of the game).<ref name="RingForger">{{cite web|url=http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/25/5937095/shadow-of-mordors-wraith-is-the-ring-forger-himself-celebrimbor|title=Shadow of Mordor's Wraith is the ring forger himself, Celebrimbor|first=Tracey|last=Lien|work=[[Polygon (website)|Polygon]]|date=July 25, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> In Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor's tone, the team created a dark atmosphere with humor, reflected in dialogue and voice acting. This was handled by [[Dan Abnett]]. The team hired [[David Salo]], a linguist who worked on the Tolkien's languages for the ''Lord of the Rings'' film trilogy, to develop the Orcs' Black Speech.<ref name="VentureStory"/><br />
To prevent inaccuracies, Monolith consulted several Tolkien scholars from [[Warner Bros.]] and collaborated with [[Weta Workshop]] on the game's special effects and scenery.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lord-of-the-rings-prequel-shadow-of-mordor-is-not-a-movie-game/1100-6417287/|title=Lord of the Rings prequel Shadow of Mordor is "not a movie game"|first=Eddie|last=Makuch|work=[[GameSpot]]|date=January 23, 2014|accessdate=August 1, 2015}}</ref> To depict well-known characters the company partnered with [[Middle-earth Enterprises]], the franchise-rights holder, to prevent misuse and contradiction between the game's story and [[Tolkien]]'s.<ref name="VentureStory">{{cite web|url=http://venturebeat.com/2014/09/19/how-middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-stays-true-to-tolkiens-fantasy-universe/|title=How Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor stays true to Tolkien’s fantasy universe|first=Giancarlo|last=Valdes|work=[[VentureBeat]]|date=September 19, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> <br />
The music for ''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor'' was composed by [[Garry Schyman]] and Nathan Grigg, and a soundtrack album was released digitally by WaterTower Music on September 30, 2014.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.watertower-music.com/releases_spotlight.php?search=WTM39612_shadow |title=Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor – Official Video Game Score |publisher=WaterTower Music |accessdate=September 30, 2014}}</ref><br />
<br />
On December 16, 2014, the downloadable content (DLC) ''Lord of the Hunt'' was released. Its storyline revolved around Torvin, and it included new runes, skins and bosses.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pcgamer.com/shadow-of-mordor-lord-of-the-hunt-dlc-pack-adds-new-warchiefs-and-mounts/|title=Shadow of Mordor 'Lord of the Hunt' DLC pack adds new warchiefs and mounts|author=Shaun Prescott|work=[[PC Gamer]]|date=December 17, 2014|accessdate=January 13, 2015}}</ref> ''Lord of the Hunt'' received mixed reviews from critics.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor---lord-of-the-hunt|title=Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor – Lord of the Hunt for PC reviews|work=[[Metacritic]]|publisher=[[CBS Interactive]]|date=January 13, 2015}}</ref><br />
The final DLC for ''Shadow of Mordor'' (''The Bright Lord'') is set 3,000 years before the main campaign and allows players to control Talion's companion, Celebrimbor.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/02/19/fight-the-dark-lord-sauron-in-middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-the-bright-lord-dlc|title=Fight the Dark Lord Sauron in Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor The Bright Lord DLC|author=Cassidee Moser|work=[[IGN]]|date=February 19, 2015|accessdate=February 20, 2015}}</ref> It adds a chapter to ''Shadow of Mordor'' in which players can complete ten more missions and fight [[Sauron]].<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.shadowofmordor.nl/news/The-Bright-Lord-DLC:-Finally-able-to-fight-sauron3895|title=The Bright Lord DLC: Finally able to fight sauron|author=Webmaster|work=Shadow of Mordor Fansite|date=March 26, 2015|accessdate=March 28, 2015}}</ref> The content was released on February 24, 2015 for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/02/24/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-bright-lord-dlc-available-today-for-current-gen-pc.aspx|title=Middle-earth: Shadow Of Mordor Bright Lord DLC Available Today For Current-Gen, PC|author=Mike Futter |work=[[Game Informer]]|date=February 24, 2015|accessdate=February 24, 2015}}</ref><br />
A Game of the Year edition with DLC was announced on April 29, 2015 and released on May 5 for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.gamezone.com/news/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-game-of-the-year-edition-announced-3416010|title=Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Game of the Year Edition announced|first=Matt|last=Liebi|work=[[GameZone]]|date=April 29, 2015|accessdate=July 28, 2015}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2015/05/05/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-game-of-the-year-edition-available-now/147241/|title=Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor Game of the Year Edition Available Now|first=Kevin|last=Dunsmore|date=May 5, 2015|accessdate=July 28, 2015|work=[[Hardcore Gamer]]}}</ref> A special edition, with in-game items and a steelbook, was introduced on August 1.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/middleearth_shadow_of_mordor/news/middle-earth_shadow_of_mordor_special_edition_revealed.html|title=Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Special Edition revealed|first=David|last=Scammell|date=August 1, 2015|accessdate=July 28, 2015|work=[[VideoGamer.com]]}}</ref><br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
* '''[http://www.shadowofmordor.com/agegate/ Official website]'''<br />
{{Videogames}}<br />
{{title|italic}}<br />
[[Category:Action games]]<br />
[[Category:Adventure games]]<br />
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]<br />
[[Category:Open world games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 3 games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 4 games]]<br />
[[Category:Role playing games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox One games]]<br />
[[Category:Warner Bros. Interactive games]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Jennifer_Hale&diff=291332Jennifer Hale2017-01-10T19:54:50Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Roles */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{actor<br />
| image=[[Image:Jennifer Hale.JPG|250px]]<br />
| name=Jennifer Hale<br />
| lifetime=[[1 January|January 1]], [[1972]]<br />
| played= [[Galadriel]], [[Lobelia Sackville-Baggins|Lobelia]], [[Rose Cotton|Rose Cotton]]<br />
| film= [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]]<br />
| played2=[[Lianna]], additional voices <br />
| film2=[[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]] <br />
| imdb= [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0354937/ Profile]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''Jennifer Hale''' ([[1972]]) is a Canadian-born American voice actress. She has provided voices for several animated productions of [[Disney]] and Marvel, and various roles in ''Star Wars'' video games. <br />
<br />
<br />
==Roles==<br />
* [[2014]]: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]'' - [[Galadriel]]<br />
* [[2011]]: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]'' - [[Idonna Bellflower]]<br />
* [[2003]]: [[The Hobbit (2003 video game)|''The Hobbit'' (2003 video game)]] - [[Lianna]], additional voices <br />
* [[2001]]: [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (video game)|''The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring'' (video game)]] - [[Galadriel]], [[Lobelia Sackville-Baggins|Lobelia]], [[Rose Cotton|Rose Cotton]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
* '''[http://www.jenniferhale.com/jenn42/upload/index.htm Official website]'''<br />
* {{WP|Jennifer Hale}}<br />
* [http://voicechasers.com/database/showactor.php?actorid=1258 Jennifer Hale] at [http://voicechasers.com/ VoiceChasers]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Actors and actresses|Hale, Jennifer]]<br />
[[Category:American people|Hale, Jennifer]]<br />
[[Category:Canadian people|Hale, Jennifer]]<br />
[[Category:People by name|Hale, Jennifer]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Steven_Jay_Blum&diff=291331Steven Jay Blum2017-01-10T19:52:53Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Roles */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Steven Jay Blum''' ([[28 April|April 28]], [[1965]]) is an American voice actor. His most recognized roles are that of [[wikipedia:Wolverine (comics)|Wolverine]], and [[wikipedia:Spike Spiegel|Spike Spiegel]] in ''[[wikipedia:Cowboy Bebop|Cowboy Bebop]]''.<br />
<br />
==Roles==<br />
* [[2014]]: ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor ]]'': [[Sauron]]<br />
* [[2011]]: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]'': Unspecified<br />
* [[2010]]: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest]]'': Unspecified<br />
* [[2006]]: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II]]'': Unspecified<br />
* [[2003]]: ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring]]'': [[Varin]], Gondor Swordsman, Dwarf Shieldbreaker<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
* {{WP|Steven Blum}}<br />
* [http://voicechasers.com/database/showactor.php?actorid=1121 Steven Blum] at [http://voicechasers.com VoiceChasers]<br />
* [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0089710/ Steven Jay Blum] at [http://www.imdb.com IMDB]<br />
[[Category:Actors and actresses|Blum, Steven Jay]]<br />
[[Category:American people|Blum, Steven Jay]]<br />
[[Category:People by name|Blum, Steven Jay]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Middle-earth:_Shadow_of_Mordor&diff=291330Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor2017-01-10T19:42:17Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* History and development */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{video game infobox<br />
<br />
| image = <br />
| name = Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor<br />
| developer = [[Monolith Productions]]<br />
| publisher = [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]]<br />
| platform = PC, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Xbox One<br />
| releasedate = [[30 September]] [[2014]]<br />
| genre = [[wikipedia:Action role-playing|Action role-playing]]<br />
| modes =<br />
| rating =<br />
| distribution =<br />
}}<br />
'''''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor''''' is an open world action-adventure video game, published by [[Monolith Productions]]. Released in 2014, the story takes place between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', acting as a bridge between the two eras. The protagonist's name is Talion, a [[Gondorian]] [[Ranger]] stationed at the [[Black Gate]]. Talion's family is slain the night the Dark Lord [[Sauron]] and his [[Uruk-Hai]] forces return to reclaim [[Mordor]], setting the Ranger on a quest for revenge after he is possessed and sustained from death by a mysterious [[Wraith]].<br />
<br />
==Plot Synopsis==<br />
<br />
The family of Talion, a ranger who guards the black gates into Mordor, is brutally killed by the black hand of Sauron. Talion is also killed but is brought back to life merged with a wraith that gives him inhuman powers. He ventures into Mordor to exact revenge and to help the wraith find his past identity and what brings the two together. <br />
<br />
== Gameplay ==<br />
<br />
''Shadow of Mordor'' is an open-world action/adventure game that is set entirely within Mordor. The overworld is mainly populated by [[Uruk-hai|Uruks]], as well as never-before-seen creatures, such as the cat-like Caragors and troll-like Graugs.<br />
<br />
One defining feature of the game is the Nemesis System, which allows the game to remember Uruks of a certain notability and track their progress as they rise from lowly soldiers to high-ranking captains and even war-chiefs. Most of these Uruks are randomly-generated and can vary in appearance, name, personality, and strengths/weaknesses. the Captains can randomly be found among the anonymous masses, though the war-chiefs can only be encountered by completing certain objectives to draw them out of hiding.<br />
<br />
There are a number of tactics and strategies that can be exploited to kill Uruks: In addition to killing them in normal combat, one can also poison a nearby barrel of grog and let Uruk-hai drink from it, grapple them and throw them over the edge of a cliff or platform, set Caragors loose on them by breaking open their cages, launch sneak attacks from above or behind, or "brand" Uruks with the Wraith's powers to brainwash them and pit them against other Orcs.<br />
<br />
== Voice cast ==<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"<br />
! Role !! Actor<br />
|-<br />
| [[Talion]] || [[Troy Baker]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Celebrimbor|The Wraith]] || [[Alister Duncan]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Black Hand]] || [[Nolan North]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Sauron]] || [[Steve Blum]] <br />
|-<br />
| Torvin || [[Adam Croasdell]] <br />
|-<br />
| Ioreth || [[Laura Bailey]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Gollum]] || [[Liam O'Brien]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Galadriel]] || [[Jennifer Hale]]<br />
|-<br />
| Queen Marwen || [[Claudia Black]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Saruman]] || [[Roger Jackson]]<br />
|-<br />
| Ship Captain || [[Jason Connery ]] <br />
|-<br />
| Additional voices || [[JB Blanc]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices || [[Chris Cox]] <br />
|}<br />
<br />
==History and development==<br />
Development of ''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor'', which took about three years, began in late 2011.<ref>{{cite web|title = Shadow of Mordor Dev Made "Some Pretty Big And Painful Cuts"|url = http://www.gamespot.com/articles/shadow-of-mordor-dev-made-some-pretty-big-and-pain/1100-6424827/|first=Eddie|last=Makuch|work=[[GameSpot]]|date=January 22, 2015|accessdate=July 30, 2015}}</ref> The game's lead developer was [[Monolith Productions]], who had experience on a Middle-earth game with ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''. According to design director Michael de Plater, ''Shadow of Mordor'' was developed in parallel with ''Guardians of Middle-earth'' but handled by a separate team. It was published by [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]].<ref name = "IGNInfo">{{cite web|url=http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/12/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-announced |title=Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Announced |publisher=IGN |date=November 12, 2013 |accessdate=November 20, 2013}}</ref><ref name="IGNWHY">{{cite web|url=http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/02/20/why-lord-of-the-rings-fans-should-be-excited-for-shadow-of-mordor|title=Why Lord of the Rings Fans Should Be Excited for Shadow of Mordor|date=February 20, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> The game was designed by de Plater.<ref name="GI Feature 2">{{cite web|url=http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/11/18/freedom-in-mordor-middle-earth-39-s-next-level-sandbox.aspx|title=Freedom In Mordor: Middle-earth's Next-Level Sandbox|first=Ben|last=Hanson|work=[[Game Informer]]|date=November 18, 2013|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref><br />
<br />
''Shadow of Mordor'' bridges the gap between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', with the team wanting to show iconic elements of the universe in an original way.<ref name="IGNWHY"/> The team had to draw notes on Tolkien's notes and appendices to ensure that their vision for the game would not change the franchise's timeline.<ref name="E3Time"/> Although the game's environment is inspired by the books and films, several places (such as Udûn and the Sea of Nurnen) were re-imagined. Art director Phil Straub considered consistency with the lore and presenting "something visually new" and realistic the most important elements of creating the game, and the team did not incorporate many fantasy elements in its world.<ref name="fantasy GameSpot"/> To create some parts of the game environment, they studied photos of Iceland and New Zealand and yellow stone found worldwide.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pcgamer.com/shadow-of-mordor-interview/|title=Shadow of Mordor interview: lore, exploration and keeping up appearances|first=Shaun |last=Prescott|date=September 19, 2015|accessdate=July 25, 2015|work=[[PC Gamer]]}}</ref> Since ''Shadow of Mordor'' is set before ''The Lord of the Rings'', its landscape is less post-apocalyptic; environments also vary by weather, lighting and atmosphere.<ref name="gi feature1"/><br />
Early in development the team consulted [[Peter Jackson]], director of ''[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|The Lord of the Rings]]'' and ''[[The Hobbit (film series)|The Hobbit]]'' trilogies, who advised them against a film tie-in.<ref name="IGNWHY"/> According to Roberts, the story is designed for accessibility by all players, regardless of their familiarity with the franchise by creating natural interactions and believable relationships among the characters.<ref name="VentureStory"/> Its protagonist is Talion, a half-human, half-wraith inspired by [[Boromir]].<ref name="fantasy GameSpot">{{cite web|url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/shadow-of-mordor-has-only-scratched-the-surface-of/1100-6424332/|title=Shadow of Mordor Has 'Only Scratched the Surface' of Monolith's Middle-earth|first=Alexa|last=Ray Corriea|work=[[GameSpot]]|date=December 20, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/10/real-human-beings-shadow-of-mordor-watch-dogs-and.html|title=Real Human Beings: Shadow of Mordor, Watch Dogs|first=Austin|last=Walker|work=[[Paste Magazine]]|date=October 10, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> In the game, the mysterious wraith is later revealed as [[Celebrimbor]], creator of the [[Rings of Power]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.vg247.com/2014/07/26/talions-wraith-in-middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-is-none-other-than-celebrimbor/|title=Talion’s wraith in Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor is none other than Celebrimbor|first=Stephany |last=Nunneley|work=[[VG247]]|date=July 26, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> The development team picked Celebrimbor because they considered his backstory sufficiently interesting to expand the canon's authenticity, allowing the team to write a story around power (a major theme of the game).<ref name="RingForger">{{cite web|url=http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/25/5937095/shadow-of-mordors-wraith-is-the-ring-forger-himself-celebrimbor|title=Shadow of Mordor's Wraith is the ring forger himself, Celebrimbor|first=Tracey|last=Lien|work=[[Polygon (website)|Polygon]]|date=July 25, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> In Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor's tone, the team created a dark atmosphere with humor, reflected in dialogue and voice acting. This was handled by [[Dan Abnett]]. The team hired [[David Salo]], a linguist who worked on the Tolkien's languages for the ''Lord of the Rings'' film trilogy, to develop the Orcs' Black Speech.<ref name="VentureStory"/><br />
To prevent inaccuracies, Monolith consulted several Tolkien scholars from [[Warner Bros.]] and collaborated with [[Weta Workshop]] on the game's special effects and scenery.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lord-of-the-rings-prequel-shadow-of-mordor-is-not-a-movie-game/1100-6417287/|title=Lord of the Rings prequel Shadow of Mordor is "not a movie game"|first=Eddie|last=Makuch|work=[[GameSpot]]|date=January 23, 2014|accessdate=August 1, 2015}}</ref> To depict well-known characters the company partnered with [[Middle-earth Enterprises]], the franchise-rights holder, to prevent misuse and contradiction between the game's story and [[Tolkien]]'s.<ref name="VentureStory">{{cite web|url=http://venturebeat.com/2014/09/19/how-middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-stays-true-to-tolkiens-fantasy-universe/|title=How Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor stays true to Tolkien’s fantasy universe|first=Giancarlo|last=Valdes|work=[[VentureBeat]]|date=September 19, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> <br />
The music for ''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor'' was composed by [[Garry Schyman]] and Nathan Grigg, and a soundtrack album was released digitally by WaterTower Music on September 30, 2014.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.watertower-music.com/releases_spotlight.php?search=WTM39612_shadow |title=Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor – Official Video Game Score |publisher=WaterTower Music |accessdate=September 30, 2014}}</ref><br />
<br />
On December 16, 2014, the downloadable content (DLC) ''Lord of the Hunt'' was released. Its storyline revolved around Torvin, and it included new runes, skins and bosses.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pcgamer.com/shadow-of-mordor-lord-of-the-hunt-dlc-pack-adds-new-warchiefs-and-mounts/|title=Shadow of Mordor 'Lord of the Hunt' DLC pack adds new warchiefs and mounts|author=Shaun Prescott|work=[[PC Gamer]]|date=December 17, 2014|accessdate=January 13, 2015}}</ref> ''Lord of the Hunt'' received mixed reviews from critics.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor---lord-of-the-hunt|title=Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor – Lord of the Hunt for PC reviews|work=[[Metacritic]]|publisher=[[CBS Interactive]]|date=January 13, 2015}}</ref><br />
The final DLC for ''Shadow of Mordor'' (''The Bright Lord'') is set 3,000 years before the main campaign and allows players to control Talion's companion, Celebrimbor.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/02/19/fight-the-dark-lord-sauron-in-middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-the-bright-lord-dlc|title=Fight the Dark Lord Sauron in Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor The Bright Lord DLC|author=Cassidee Moser|work=[[IGN]]|date=February 19, 2015|accessdate=February 20, 2015}}</ref> It adds a chapter to ''Shadow of Mordor'' in which players can complete ten more missions and fight [[Sauron]].<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.shadowofmordor.nl/news/The-Bright-Lord-DLC:-Finally-able-to-fight-sauron3895|title=The Bright Lord DLC: Finally able to fight sauron|author=Webmaster|work=Shadow of Mordor Fansite|date=March 26, 2015|accessdate=March 28, 2015}}</ref> The content was released on February 24, 2015 for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/02/24/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-bright-lord-dlc-available-today-for-current-gen-pc.aspx|title=Middle-earth: Shadow Of Mordor Bright Lord DLC Available Today For Current-Gen, PC|author=Mike Futter |work=[[Game Informer]]|date=February 24, 2015|accessdate=February 24, 2015}}</ref><br />
A Game of the Year edition with DLC was announced on April 29, 2015 and released on May 5 for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.gamezone.com/news/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-game-of-the-year-edition-announced-3416010|title=Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Game of the Year Edition announced|first=Matt|last=Liebi|work=[[GameZone]]|date=April 29, 2015|accessdate=July 28, 2015}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2015/05/05/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-game-of-the-year-edition-available-now/147241/|title=Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor Game of the Year Edition Available Now|first=Kevin|last=Dunsmore|date=May 5, 2015|accessdate=July 28, 2015|work=[[Hardcore Gamer]]}}</ref> A special edition, with in-game items and a steelbook, was introduced on August 1.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/middleearth_shadow_of_mordor/news/middle-earth_shadow_of_mordor_special_edition_revealed.html|title=Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Special Edition revealed|first=David|last=Scammell|date=August 1, 2015|accessdate=July 28, 2015|work=[[VideoGamer.com]]}}</ref><br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
* '''[http://www.shadowofmordor.com/agegate/ Official website]'''<br />
{{Videogames}}<br />
{{title|italic}}<br />
[[Category:Action games]]<br />
[[Category:Adventure games]]<br />
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]<br />
[[Category:Open world games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 3 games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 4 games]]<br />
[[Category:Role playing games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox One games]]<br />
[[Category:Warner Bros. Interactive games]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Middle-earth:_Shadow_of_Mordor&diff=291329Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor2017-01-10T19:40:55Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Voice cast */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{video game infobox<br />
<br />
| image = <br />
| name = Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor<br />
| developer = [[Monolith Productions]]<br />
| publisher = [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]]<br />
| platform = PC, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Xbox One<br />
| releasedate = [[30 September]] [[2014]]<br />
| genre = [[wikipedia:Action role-playing|Action role-playing]]<br />
| modes =<br />
| rating =<br />
| distribution =<br />
}}<br />
'''''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor''''' is an open world action-adventure video game, published by [[Monolith Productions]]. Released in 2014, the story takes place between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', acting as a bridge between the two eras. The protagonist's name is Talion, a [[Gondorian]] [[Ranger]] stationed at the [[Black Gate]]. Talion's family is slain the night the Dark Lord [[Sauron]] and his [[Uruk-Hai]] forces return to reclaim [[Mordor]], setting the Ranger on a quest for revenge after he is possessed and sustained from death by a mysterious [[Wraith]].<br />
<br />
==Plot Synopsis==<br />
<br />
The family of Talion, a ranger who guards the black gates into Mordor, is brutally killed by the black hand of Sauron. Talion is also killed but is brought back to life merged with a wraith that gives him inhuman powers. He ventures into Mordor to exact revenge and to help the wraith find his past identity and what brings the two together. <br />
<br />
== Gameplay ==<br />
<br />
''Shadow of Mordor'' is an open-world action/adventure game that is set entirely within Mordor. The overworld is mainly populated by [[Uruk-hai|Uruks]], as well as never-before-seen creatures, such as the cat-like Caragors and troll-like Graugs.<br />
<br />
One defining feature of the game is the Nemesis System, which allows the game to remember Uruks of a certain notability and track their progress as they rise from lowly soldiers to high-ranking captains and even war-chiefs. Most of these Uruks are randomly-generated and can vary in appearance, name, personality, and strengths/weaknesses. the Captains can randomly be found among the anonymous masses, though the war-chiefs can only be encountered by completing certain objectives to draw them out of hiding.<br />
<br />
There are a number of tactics and strategies that can be exploited to kill Uruks: In addition to killing them in normal combat, one can also poison a nearby barrel of grog and let Uruk-hai drink from it, grapple them and throw them over the edge of a cliff or platform, set Caragors loose on them by breaking open their cages, launch sneak attacks from above or behind, or "brand" Uruks with the Wraith's powers to brainwash them and pit them against other Orcs.<br />
<br />
== Voice cast ==<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"<br />
! Role !! Actor<br />
|-<br />
| [[Talion]] || [[Troy Baker]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Celebrimbor|The Wraith]] || [[Alister Duncan]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Black Hand]] || [[Nolan North]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Sauron]] || [[Steve Blum]] <br />
|-<br />
| Torvin || [[Adam Croasdell]] <br />
|-<br />
| Ioreth || [[Laura Bailey]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Gollum]] || [[Liam O'Brien]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Galadriel]] || [[Jennifer Hale]]<br />
|-<br />
| Queen Marwen || [[Claudia Black]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Saruman]] || [[Roger Jackson]]<br />
|-<br />
| Ship Captain || [[Jason Connery ]] <br />
|-<br />
| Additional voices || [[JB Blanc]] <br />
|-<br />
|Additional voices || [[Chris Cox]] <br />
|}<br />
<br />
==History and development==<br />
Development of ''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor'', which took about three years, began in late 2011.<ref>{{cite web|title = Shadow of Mordor Dev Made "Some Pretty Big And Painful Cuts"|url = http://www.gamespot.com/articles/shadow-of-mordor-dev-made-some-pretty-big-and-pain/1100-6424827/|first=Eddie|last=Makuch|work=[[GameSpot]]|date=January 22, 2015|accessdate=July 30, 2015}}</ref> The game's lead developer was [[Monolith Productions]], who had experience on a Middle-earth game with ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''. According to design director Michael de Plater, ''Shadow of Mordor'' was developed in parallel with ''Guardians of Middle-earth'' but handled by a separate team. It was published by [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]].<ref name = "IGNInfo">{{cite web|url=http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/12/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-announced |title=Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Announced |publisher=IGN |date=November 12, 2013 |accessdate=November 20, 2013}}</ref><ref name="IGNWHY">{{cite web|url=http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/02/20/why-lord-of-the-rings-fans-should-be-excited-for-shadow-of-mordor|title=Why Lord of the Rings Fans Should Be Excited for Shadow of Mordor|date=February 20, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> The game was designed by de Plater.<ref name="GI Feature 2">{{cite web|url=http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/11/18/freedom-in-mordor-middle-earth-39-s-next-level-sandbox.aspx|title=Freedom In Mordor: Middle-earth's Next-Level Sandbox|first=Ben|last=Hanson|work=[[Game Informer]]|date=November 18, 2013|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref><br />
<br />
''Shadow of Mordor'' bridges the gap between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', with the team wanting to show iconic elements of the universe in an original way.<ref name="IGNWHY"/> The team had to draw notes on Tolkien's notes and appendices to ensure that their vision for the game would not change the franchise's timeline.<ref name="E3Time"/> Although the game's environment is inspired by the books and films, several places (such as Udûn and the Sea of Nurnen) were re-imagined. Art director Phil Straub considered consistency with the lore and presenting "something visually new" and realistic the most important elements of creating the game, and the team did not incorporate many fantasy elements in its world.<ref name="fantasy GameSpot"/> To create some parts of the game environment, they studied photos of Iceland and New Zealand and yellow stone found worldwide.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pcgamer.com/shadow-of-mordor-interview/|title=Shadow of Mordor interview: lore, exploration and keeping up appearances|first=Shaun |last=Prescott|date=September 19, 2015|accessdate=July 25, 2015|work=[[PC Gamer]]}}</ref> Since ''Shadow of Mordor'' is set before ''The Lord of the Rings'', its landscape is less post-apocalyptic; environments also vary by weather, lighting and atmosphere.<ref name="gi feature1"/><br />
Early in development the team consulted [[Peter Jackson]], director of ''[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|The Lord of the Rings]]'' and ''[[The Hobbit (film series)|The Hobbit]]'' trilogies, who advised them against a film tie-in.<ref name="IGNWHY"/> According to Roberts, the story is designed for accessibility by all players, regardless of their familiarity with the franchise by creating natural interactions and believable relationships among the characters.<ref name="VentureStory"/> Its protagonist is Talion, a half-human, half-wraith inspired by [[Boromir]].<ref name="fantasy GameSpot">{{cite web|url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/shadow-of-mordor-has-only-scratched-the-surface-of/1100-6424332/|title=Shadow of Mordor Has 'Only Scratched the Surface' of Monolith's Middle-earth|first=Alexa|last=Ray Corriea|work=[[GameSpot]]|date=December 20, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/10/real-human-beings-shadow-of-mordor-watch-dogs-and.html|title=Real Human Beings: Shadow of Mordor, Watch Dogs|first=Austin|last=Walker|work=[[Paste Magazine]]|date=October 10, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> In the game, the mysterious wraith is later revealed as [[Celebrimbor]], creator of the [[Rings of Power]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.vg247.com/2014/07/26/talions-wraith-in-middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-is-none-other-than-celebrimbor/|title=Talion’s wraith in Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor is none other than Celebrimbor|first=Stephany |last=Nunneley|work=[[VG247]]|date=July 26, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> The development team picked Celebrimbor because they considered his backstory sufficiently interesting to expand the canon's authenticity, allowing the team to write a story around power (a major theme of the game).<ref name="RingForger">{{cite web|url=http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/25/5937095/shadow-of-mordors-wraith-is-the-ring-forger-himself-celebrimbor|title=Shadow of Mordor's Wraith is the ring forger himself, Celebrimbor|first=Tracey|last=Lien|work=[[Polygon (website)|Polygon]]|date=July 25, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> In Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor's tone, the team created a dark atmosphere with humor, reflected in dialogue and voice acting. This was handled by [[Dan Abnett]]. The team hired [[David Salo]], a linguist who worked on the Tolkien's languages for the ''Lord of the Rings'' film trilogy, to develop the Orcs' Black Speech.<ref name="VentureStory"/><br />
To prevent inaccuracies, Monolith consulted several Tolkien scholars from [[Warner Bros.]] and collaborated with [[Weta Workshop]] on the game's special effects and scenery.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lord-of-the-rings-prequel-shadow-of-mordor-is-not-a-movie-game/1100-6417287/|title=Lord of the Rings prequel Shadow of Mordor is "not a movie game"|first=Eddie|last=Makuch|work=[[GameSpot]]|date=January 23, 2014|accessdate=August 1, 2015}}</ref> To depict well-known characters the company partnered with [[Middle-earth Enterprises]], the franchise-rights holder, to prevent misuse and contradiction between the game's story and [[Tolkien]]'s.<ref name="VentureStory">{{cite web|url=http://venturebeat.com/2014/09/19/how-middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-stays-true-to-tolkiens-fantasy-universe/|title=How Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor stays true to Tolkien’s fantasy universe|first=Giancarlo|last=Valdes|work=[[VentureBeat]]|date=September 19, 2014|accessdate=July 25, 2015}}</ref> <br />
The music for ''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor'' was composed by [[Garry Schyman]] and Nathan Grigg, and a soundtrack album was released digitally by WaterTower Music on September 30, 2014.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.watertower-music.com/releases_spotlight.php?search=WTM39612_shadow |title=Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor – Official Video Game Score |publisher=WaterTower Music |accessdate=September 30, 2014}}</ref><br />
<br />
On December 16, 2014, the downloadable content (DLC) ''Lord of the Hunt'' was released. Its storyline revolved around Torvin, and it included new runes, skins and bosses.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pcgamer.com/shadow-of-mordor-lord-of-the-hunt-dlc-pack-adds-new-warchiefs-and-mounts/|title=Shadow of Mordor 'Lord of the Hunt' DLC pack adds new warchiefs and mounts|author=Shaun Prescott|work=[[PC Gamer]]|date=December 17, 2014|accessdate=January 13, 2015}}</ref> ''Lord of the Hunt'' received mixed reviews from critics.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor---lord-of-the-hunt|title=Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor – Lord of the Hunt for PC reviews|work=[[Metacritic]]|publisher=[[CBS Interactive]]|date=January 13, 2015}}</ref><br />
The final DLC for ''Shadow of Mordor'' (''The Bright Lord'') is set 3,000 years before the main campaign and allows players to control Talion's companion, Celebrimbor.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/02/19/fight-the-dark-lord-sauron-in-middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-the-bright-lord-dlc|title=Fight the Dark Lord Sauron in Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor The Bright Lord DLC|author=Cassidee Moser|work=[[IGN]]|date=February 19, 2015|accessdate=February 20, 2015}}</ref> It adds a chapter to ''Shadow of Mordor'' in which players can complete ten more missions and fight [[Sauron]].<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.shadowofmordor.nl/news/The-Bright-Lord-DLC:-Finally-able-to-fight-sauron3895|title=The Bright Lord DLC: Finally able to fight sauron|author=Webmaster|work=Shadow of Mordor Fansite|date=March 26, 2015|accessdate=March 28, 2015}}</ref> The content was released on February 24, 2015 for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/02/24/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-bright-lord-dlc-available-today-for-current-gen-pc.aspx|title=Middle-earth: Shadow Of Mordor Bright Lord DLC Available Today For Current-Gen, PC|author=Mike Futter |work=[[Game Informer]]|date=February 24, 2015|accessdate=February 24, 2015}}</ref><br />
A Game of the Year edition with DLC was announced on April 29, 2015 and released on May 5 for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.gamezone.com/news/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-game-of-the-year-edition-announced-3416010|title=Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Game of the Year Edition announced|first=Matt|last=Liebi|work=[[GameZone]]|date=April 29, 2015|accessdate=July 28, 2015}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2015/05/05/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-game-of-the-year-edition-available-now/147241/|title=Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor Game of the Year Edition Available Now|first=Kevin|last=Dunsmore|date=May 5, 2015|accessdate=July 28, 2015|work=[[Hardcore Gamer]]}}</ref> A special edition, with in-game items and a steelbook, was introduced on August 1.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/middleearth_shadow_of_mordor/news/middle-earth_shadow_of_mordor_special_edition_revealed.html|title=Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Special Edition revealed|first=David|last=Scammell|date=August 1, 2015|accessdate=July 28, 2015|work=[[VideoGamer.com]]}}</ref><br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
* '''[http://www.shadowofmordor.com/agegate/ Official website]'''<br />
{{Videogames}}<br />
{{title|italic}}<br />
[[Category:Action games]]<br />
[[Category:Adventure games]]<br />
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]<br />
[[Category:Open world games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 3 games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 4 games]]<br />
[[Category:Role playing games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox One games]]<br />
[[Category:Warner Bros. Interactive games]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Middle-earth:_Shadow_of_Mordor&diff=291328Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor2017-01-10T18:49:00Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{video game infobox<br />
<br />
| image = <br />
| name = Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor<br />
| developer = [[Monolith Productions]]<br />
| publisher = [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]]<br />
| platform = PC, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Xbox One<br />
| releasedate = [[30 September]] [[2014]]<br />
| genre = [[wikipedia:Action role-playing|Action role-playing]]<br />
| modes =<br />
| rating =<br />
| distribution =<br />
}}<br />
'''''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor''''' is an open world action-adventure video game, published by [[Monolith Productions]]. Released in 2014, the story takes place between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', acting as a bridge between the two eras. The protagonist's name is Talion, a [[Gondorian]] [[Ranger]] stationed at the [[Black Gate]]. Talion's family is slain the night the Dark Lord [[Sauron]] and his [[Uruk-Hai]] forces return to reclaim [[Mordor]], setting the Ranger on a quest for revenge after he is possessed and sustained from death by a mysterious [[Wraith]].<br />
<br />
==Plot Synopsis==<br />
<br />
The family of Talion, a ranger who guards the black gates into Mordor, is brutally killed by the black hand of Sauron. Talion is also killed but is brought back to life merged with a wraith that gives him inhuman powers. He ventures into Mordor to exact revenge and to help the wraith find his past identity and what brings the two together. <br />
<br />
== Gameplay ==<br />
<br />
''Shadow of Mordor'' is an open-world action/adventure game that is set entirely within Mordor. The overworld is mainly populated by [[Uruk-hai|Uruks]], as well as never-before-seen creatures, such as the cat-like Caragors and troll-like Graugs.<br />
<br />
One defining feature of the game is the Nemesis System, which allows the game to remember Uruks of a certain notability and track their progress as they rise from lowly soldiers to high-ranking captains and even war-chiefs. Most of these Uruks are randomly-generated and can vary in appearance, name, personality, and strengths/weaknesses. the Captains can randomly be found among the anonymous masses, though the war-chiefs can only be encountered by completing certain objectives to draw them out of hiding.<br />
<br />
There are a number of tactics and strategies that can be exploited to kill Uruks: In addition to killing them in normal combat, one can also poison a nearby barrel of grog and let Uruk-hai drink from it, grapple them and throw them over the edge of a cliff or platform, set Caragors loose on them by breaking open their cages, launch sneak attacks from above or behind, or "brand" Uruks with the Wraith's powers to brainwash them and pit them against other Orcs.<br />
<br />
== Voice cast ==<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"<br />
! Role !! Actor<br />
|-<br />
| [[Talion]] || [[Troy Baker]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Celebrimbor|The Wraith]] || [[Alister Duncan]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Black Hand]] || [[Nolan North]]<br />
|-<br />
| Ioreth || [[Laura Bailey]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Gollum]] || [[Liam O'Brien]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Galadriel]] || [[Jennifer Hale]]<br />
|-<br />
| Queen Marwen || [[Claudia Black]]<br />
|}<br />
== External links ==<br />
* '''[http://www.shadowofmordor.com/agegate/ Official website]'''<br />
{{Videogames}}<br />
{{title|italic}}<br />
[[Category:Action games]]<br />
[[Category:Adventure games]]<br />
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]<br />
[[Category:Open world games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 3 games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 4 games]]<br />
[[Category:Role playing games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox One games]]<br />
[[Category:Warner Bros. Interactive games]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=2014&diff=29132420142017-01-10T18:23:16Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* September */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{year-header}}<br />
==January==<br />
* '''[[3 January|3]]''' - [[Birthday Toast#Tolkien Society tradition|Birthday Toast]].<br />
* '''[[3 January|3]]''' - [[Saul Zaentz]] dies.<br />
* '''[[30 January|30]]''' - Director [[Arthur Rankin, Jr.]] dies.<br />
* '''?''' - ''[[Amon Hen 245]]'' is published.<br />
==February==<br />
* '''[[27 February|27]]''' - ''[[The Fall of Arthur]]'' is published in paperback.<br />
* '''[[27 February|27]]''' - ''[[Farmer Giles of Ham]]'' pocket edition is published.<br />
==March==<br />
* '''[[25 March|25]]''' - ''[[Anglo-Saxon Community in J.R.R. Tolkien's the Lord of the Rings]]'' is published.<br />
* '''[[25 March|25]]''' - [[Tolkien Reading Day]].<br />
* '''?''' - ''[[Amon Hen 246]]'' is published.<br />
<br />
==April==<br />
* '''[[3 April|3]]''' - ''[[Smaug: Unleashing the Dragon]]'' is published.<br />
* '''[[5 April|5]]''' - ''Words of Westernesse: Adûnaic and Westron'' is published.<br />
* '''[[5 April|5]]''' - ''The Moon in The Hobbit'' is published.<br />
* '''[[5 April|5]]''' - ''The indigenous peoples of Eriador and Gondor'' is published.<br />
* '''[[7 April|7]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'' is released on Blu-ray and DVD in the UK.<br />
* '''[[8 April|8]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]'' is released on Blu-ray and DVD in the USA.<br />
* '''[[19 April|19]] - [[21 April|21]]''' - [http://www.hobbitcon.de/ Hobbitcon 2].<br />
* '''[[24 April|24]]''' - [[Peter Jackson]] announces that the third ''[[The Hobbit (film series)|Hobbit film]]'' will be renamed to ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies|The Battle of the Five Armies]]''.<br />
* '''[[30 April|30]]''' - ''[[Hither Shore 10]]'' is published.<br />
<br />
==May==<br />
* '''[[22 May|22]]''' - '''''[[Beowulf: A Translation and Commentary]]'' by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]], edited by [[Christopher Tolkien]], is published.'''<br />
* '''[[24 May|24]]''' - [[Beowulf Launch Party]] hosted by [[The Tolkien Society]] and [[Middle-earth Network]] with support from [[Tolkien Brasil]] and [[Marcel Bülles|The Tolkienist]].<br />
* '''[[28 May|28]]''' - ''[[Middle-Earth in Magic Mirror Maps]]'' is published.<br />
* '''[[30 May|30]]''' - ''[[Tolkien in the New Century|Tolkien in the New Century: Essays in Honor of Tom Shippey]]'' is published.<br />
* '''?''' - ''A Companion to J. R. R. Tolkien'' is published.<br />
* '''?''' - ''[[Amon Hen 247]]'' is published.<br />
<br />
==June==<br />
* '''[[6 June|6]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug: Chronicles: Cloaks & Daggers]]'' is published.<br />
* '''[[15 June|15]]''' - Voice actor [[Casey Kasem]] dies.<br />
* '''[[19 June|19]]''' - A new 60th Anniversary Edition of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' is published. <br />
* '''[[19 June|19]]''' - An updated edition of ''[[The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion]]'' is published.<br />
==July==<br />
* '''[[18 July|18]] - [[20 July|20]]''' - [[Tolkien Thing]] 2014.<br />
* '''[[26 July|26]]''' - [[Laocoon]], one of Tolkien's favourite trees, lost two limbs. Subsequently, the Oxford Botanic Garden decided that the tree must be felled for safety reasons.<br />
* '''[[29 July|29]]''' - Producer and interviewer [[Denys Gueroult]] dies.<br />
<br />
==August==<br />
* '''[[8 August|8]] - [[11 August|11]]''' - [[Mythcon 45]] in Wheaton College, Norton.<br />
* '''[[14 August|14]]''' - [[The Tolkien Society]] Seminar as part of WorldCon, London.<br />
* '''[[14 August|14]]''' - ''[[Tolkien On Fairy-stories]]'' is published in paperback.<br />
* '''[[28 August|28]]''' - ''[[Tolkien Calendar 2015]]'' is published.<br />
* '''?''' - ''[[Amon Hen 248]]'' is published.<br />
<br />
==September==<br />
* '''[[11 September|11]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies: Annual 2015]]'' is published.<br />
* '''[[11 September|11]] - [[14 September|14]]''' - [[Oxonmoot 2014]] at Lady Margaret Hall.<br />
* '''[[12 September|12]]''' - ''[[Tolkien at Exeter College|Tolkien at Exeter College: How an Oxford undergraduate created Middle-earth]]'' by [[John Garth]] is published.<br />
* '''[[30 September|30]]''' - [[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]] is released.<br />
* '''?''' - ''[[Amon Hen 249]]'' is published.<br />
<br />
==October==<br />
* '''[[9 October|9]]''' - ''[[The Adventures of Tom Bombadil]]'' pocket edition is published.<br />
* '''[[13 October|13]]''' - ''[[Journal of Inklings Studies (October 2014)|Journal of Inklings Studies]]'', including a translation of [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien]]'s ''[[The Book of Jonah]]'', is published.<br />
* '''[[21 October|21]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (extended edition)|The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Extended Edition]]'' is released for digital download.<br />
* '''[[23 October|23]]''' - Writer and actor [[Bernard Mayes]] dies.<br />
* '''[[30 October|30]]''' - [[The Hobbit and Tolkien's Mythology|The Hobbit ''and Tolkien's Mythology'']] is published.<br />
* '''[[30 October|30]]''' - ''[[Arda Inhabited]]'' is published.<br />
<br />
==November==<br />
* '''[[3 November|3]]''' - [[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (extended edition)|''The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug'' Extended Edition]] is released on Blu-ray and DVD in the UK.<br />
* '''[[4 November|4]]''' - [[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (extended edition)|''The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug'' Extended Edition]] is released on Blu-ray and DVD in the USA.<br />
* '''[[11 November|11]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies: Activity Book]]'' is published.<br />
* '''[[15 November|15]]''' - ''[[War of Words: Soldier-Poets of the Somme]]'' is aired.<br />
* '''[[20 November|20]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies: The Movie Storybook]]'' is published.<br />
* '''[[20 November|20]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies: Official Movie Guide]]'' is published.<br />
* '''[[20 November|20]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies: Visual Companion]]'' is published.<br />
* '''[[20 November|20]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit Trilogy Location Guide]]'' is published.<br />
* '''[[30 November|30]]''' - ''[[Tolkien's Great War (documentary)]]'' by Zander and Elliot Weaver is released.<br />
* '''?''' - ''[[Amon Hen 250]]'' is published.<br />
* '''?''' - ''[[Mallorn 55]]'' is published.<br />
<br />
==December==<br />
* '''[[1 December|1]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'' premières in [[wikipedia:Leicester Square|Leicester Square]], London.<br />
* '''[[4 December|4]]''' - [[JRR Tolkien, le seigneur des écrivains]] (La Grande Librairie) is aired.<br />
* '''[[8 December|8]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition]]'' is released.<br />
* '''[[11 December|11]]''' - '''''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'' is released in New Zealand.'''<br />
* '''[[12 December|12]]''' - '''''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'' is released in the United Kingdom.'''<br />
* '''[[17 December|17]]''' - '''''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'' is released in the United States.'''<br />
* '''[[17 December|17]]''' - ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies: Chronicles: Art & Design]]'' is published.<br />
<br />
{{years|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2016|2017}}<br />
[[Category:Years (real-world)]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Middle-earth:_Shadow_of_Mordor&diff=291323Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor2017-01-10T18:18:55Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{video game infobox<br />
| image = <br />
| name = Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor<br />
| developer = [[Monolith Productions]]<br />
| publisher = [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]]<br />
| platform = PC, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Xbox One<br />
| releasedate = [[30 September]] [[2014]]<br />
| genre = [[wikipedia:Action role-playing|Action role-playing]]<br />
| modes =<br />
| rating =<br />
| distribution =<br />
}}<br />
'''''Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor''''' is an open world action-adventure video game, published by [[Monolith Productions]]. Released in 2014, the story takes place between ''[[The Hobbit]]'' and ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', acting as a bridge between the two eras. The protagonist's name is Talion, a [[Gondorian]] [[Ranger]] stationed at the [[Black Gate]]. Talion's family is slain the night the Dark Lord [[Sauron]] and his [[Uruk-Hai]] forces return to reclaim [[Mordor]], setting the Ranger on a quest for revenge after he is possessed and sustained from death by a mysterious [[Wraith]].<br />
<br />
== Gameplay ==<br />
<br />
''Shadow of Mordor'' is an open-world action/adventure game that is set entirely within Mordor. The overworld is mainly populated by [[Uruk-hai|Uruks]], as well as never-before-seen creatures, such as the cat-like Caragors and troll-like Graugs.<br />
<br />
One defining feature of the game is the Nemesis System, which allows the game to remember Uruks of a certain notability and track their progress as they rise from lowly soldiers to high-ranking captains and even war-chiefs. Most of these Uruks are randomly-generated and can vary in appearance, name, personality, and strengths/weaknesses. the Captains can randomly be found among the anonymous masses, though the war-chiefs can only be encountered by completing certain objectives to draw them out of hiding.<br />
<br />
There are a number of tactics and strategies that can be exploited to kill Uruks: In addition to killing them in normal combat, one can also poison a nearby barrel of grog and let Uruk-hai drink from it, grapple them and throw them over the edge of a cliff or platform, set Caragors loose on them by breaking open their cages, launch sneak attacks from above or behind, or "brand" Uruks with the Wraith's powers to brainwash them and pit them against other Orcs.<br />
<br />
== Voice cast ==<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"<br />
! Role !! Actor<br />
|-<br />
| [[Talion]] || [[Troy Baker]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Celebrimbor|The Wraith]] || [[Alister Duncan]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Black Hand]] || [[Nolan North]]<br />
|-<br />
| Ioreth || [[Laura Bailey]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Gollum]] || [[Liam O'Brien]]<br />
|}<br />
== External links ==<br />
* '''[http://www.shadowofmordor.com/agegate/ Official website]'''<br />
{{Videogames}}<br />
{{title|italic}}<br />
[[Category:Action games]]<br />
[[Category:Adventure games]]<br />
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]<br />
[[Category:Open world games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 3 games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 4 games]]<br />
[[Category:Role playing games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox One games]]<br />
[[Category:Warner Bros. Interactive games]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Monolith_Productions&diff=291322Monolith Productions2017-01-10T18:15:29Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Monolith Productions''' is an American video game developer, a subsidiary of [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]] (itself a subsidiary of [[Warner Bros.]]) In [[2012]] Monolith released ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]'', while in 2014 they released the action game ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]''.<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
* '''[http://www.lith.com/ Official website]'''<br />
<br />
[[Category:American businesses]]<br />
[[Category:Businesses]]<br />
[[Category:Video Game developers]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2017&diff=291319User talk:Mith/20172017-01-09T20:44:18Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Discussion */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2016}}<br />
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''&rArr; Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table><br />
<!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--><br />
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== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]]. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
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: I am aware of the discussion, so you don't have to prompt me to read the discussion. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:42, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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::All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? Also, these games do exist in this title that I have just edited. You can search for it on Internet. You couild create pages about these games on Tolkien Gateway. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
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::I saw that only two of these games are mentioned in Tolkien Gateway, on page [[The Hobbit (film series)]] in Content ''Games and merchandise''.That is good but these games need their own pages on Tolkien Gateway and more references to these games in Tolkien Gateway. Do you understand what I am saying? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
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:::This is a wiki. As a wiki the content is dictated by individual users who, of their own free will, decide what content should be included. There is no commissioning editor here who decrees what should be included on a page; this means that if no one wants to do it then it doesn't get done. I never wanted to edit the list of games by Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, so I never did it. It was not a deliberate or malevolent decision; I decide what I want to edit, not what I don't.<br />
:::As for the titled of the games, as you can see [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/a-journey-through-middle/gjgkjeheegjnnmheaflhdocglkiegoni?hl=en here] and [http://orcattack.thehobbit.com/ here] they do not exist in the title you edited. They were undoubtedly released for the release of those films but they do not have those titles. However, if you have an issue with a specific article please include that on the talk page of the respective article.<br />
:::Do ''you'' understand everything that I have said? If you do not, I am sorry to say that your English is insufficient for this website. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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::::OK. I understand about the titles of these games.But these games are considered to be The Hobbit film Trilogy tie-in video games. Furthemore, these games set in the world of Middle-earth and playable characters are characters from the books of Tokien about Middle-earth.On Tolkien Gateway exist pages about games that are based on The Lord of the Rings film trilogy, such us [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)]] and [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)]].The same thing could be done for The Hobbit film Trilogy tie-in video games.That is why I think these pages about these games have to be created on Tolkien Gateway.Don't you think? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
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:::::I have just explained to you that there is no conscious decision not to create those articles. If you want to create those articles, create those articles. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:26, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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But I don't have the ability to create articles or upload images on Tolkien Gateway generally.In fact I don't even have the ability to create a whatever page on Tolkien Gateway, but you do have this ability.That is why I am asking it from you. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
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By the way,yes I am Greek.I am from Athens.{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sage&diff=291318User talk:Sage2017-01-09T20:43:21Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Discussion */</p>
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<div>{{w|Hyarion|[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]}}<br />
==Tale of Years==<br />
It's a known fact that the Tale of Years is full of mistakes, however, most of these were corrected in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th anniversary edition]]. That should be included as well. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:54, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Standards==<br />
We should really include this in the welcome message, but just FYI: [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style]]. This is in reference to your use of "LotR" in [[Gildor|Gildor Inglorion]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:39, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Elves ==<br />
<br />
What published works say that elves are taller?<br />
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[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 20:58, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:from the Appendices: <br />
*the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed<br />
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:Since the writer of the Appendices is a Man, and his readers are also Men, why would he describe the Eldar as tall and not as short?<br />
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:Some characters, both Elves and Men are mentioned to be tall, and I understand these can be understood as 'relativistic'; for example you can say that the Eldar were tall relative to the other Elves, but still shorter than Men (although this explanation is quite tentative, and plausible only if you ''want'' to prove that Elves were shorter). I skimmed through the Silmarillion and saw that while the people of Marach are said to be tall, and while other men described as tall such as Galdor the Tall, most references were about Elves. <br />
:*Ingwë the High King, golden-haired and tall<br />
:*The seven sons of Fëanáro were Maedhros the tall...<br />
:*their sister was Ar-feiniel the White. She was younger in the years of the Eldar than her brothers; and when she was grown to full stature and beauty she was tall and strong<br />
:*[Thingol] tallest of all the Children of Ilúvatar<br />
:*But Eöl, though stooped by his smithwork, was no Dwarf, but a tall Elf of a high kin of the Teleri<br />
:*[Maeglin] was tall and black-haired; his eyes were dark<br />
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:I don't argue that the assumption that more Elves than Men tended to be tall, can be proben by a statistical analysis. However if Elves are shorter, why Thingol was to be the tallest of all Elves and Men, and not some Man? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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Well, Tolkien stated that elves and men were at first "of a like size" (that is probably the best description in the whole legendarium for their size difference) in the BOLT2. If this is true, whether they became smaller in later ages or not, Thingol could easily be the tallest of all the Children of Iluvatar, but that doesn't mean that most elves were taller than men. Also, more elves are described as tall in the Silmarillion than men because the Silmarillion was almost all about elves, and the very few central character men that were in it were often described as tall, such as Tuor and Turin, as were many men of later ages, especially of Numenorian decent.<br />
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While the elves may not be shorter than men in general, I do not think it can be said with certainty that they are taller. By the way, can we make a real talk page/forum for this?<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:48, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I am new here, I don't know the process so be my guest. But as a last note, I also remember in BOLT 1 that Elves are shorter, and I was shocked. Furthermore, I think I also read a comment that this idea was later dropped. Anyway I hope you are aware that the BOLT books take place in a different 'continuity' and shouldn't be considered as guides for the general canon. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:51, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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Perhaps they shouldn't be considered canon, but from '''''Tolkien's Legendarium; Essays on The History of Middle-earth'''''; "...there are Tolkien's latest thoughts, his best thoughts, and his published thoughts and these are not necessarily the same."<br />
That is probably the wisest analysis that I have ever read about the world of Middle earth.<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:31, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Amras==<br />
<br />
Hi and welcome to TG (I never "officially" got to greet you). [[Amras]] now. I know it is not much what you wrote, but please don't do it again in the future when you see that "claimed" tag. I am asking this of you as nice as I can and I can only hope that you'll understand it. I know you saw a mistake and wanted to correct it, but keep in mind that all the Sons will get rewritten by me to the last word in those articles, so all the errors will be fixed. It is just a matter of time. There are over 7000 articles here. I'm sure there's plenty of work for all of us. All the best! :) ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 05:24, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yes I know you are asking it nicely (I am not of those hot-tempered people who frown at each scolding :P) and I understand. But last time I asked I was told its usage was mainly to avoid edit conflicts and loss of data, therefore it's not always that ''bad'' to edit minimally those articles in the meantime (of course there is a problem with larger edits). So my edit was to make sure that you wouldn't miss that mistake and leave it there intact. Anyway I won't do this again (at least with your claimed articles :)). I trust you will do a good work. Namarie :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:41, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::My bad for that. I voiced my personal opinion. Like I said, guidelines are too grey. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 06:58, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::: Sage - It's a good thing at least one of us isn't from that kind of hot-tempered people :)) If you won't agree with something I'll write in future articles (for various reasons, like better knowledge of the text), feel free to drop me a message and corrections will be made, promise. Ederchil - There's no such thing as "my bad" here. :) Thank you both for understanding. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 13:52, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Dwarf names==<br />
A couple of things... there are several etymological theories about the Dwarf-names in the ''Dvergatal''. Therefore, I think it's important to state the source of the translation, and add others as well. Also, place Etymolgies above Genealogies, and use double ", not '. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:49, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Right away [[User:Sage|Sage]] 04:50, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::And maybe it's handy to mention the language as well, re: [[Arkenstone]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 10:20, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Meetings ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to [[Forum:Meetings|here]]. We are currently discussing the idea of a weekly site meeting. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:11, 7 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Individual Tengwar==<br />
Since you're listing the Westron names, you should really mention ''Report from Marquette'' by Jim Allan among the references. Even if you haven't read it. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:07, 15 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==References==<br />
Hiya. Just a note: <nowiki><ref> tags don't work unless you include a <references/> section at the end (or rather, a <small><references></small> section). </nowiki>-- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:02, 22 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==[[:Template:HM]]==<br />
Any thoughts? Other than "Expand to include LotR, S, H and UT" and "Add chapters"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Next Meeting ==<br />
<br />
It is planned that we hold our next meeting on the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 April 2009|5<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 April 2009|here]].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Re: Geia!==<br />
Geia sou kai esena! dystyxws den to exw to allo vivlio tou Tsouli alla to xw diavasei... o typos einai kamenos.<br />
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Xairomai pou kai alloi ellhnares diavazoun Tolkien kai grafoun so Tolkien Gateway. Kai se eixa dei polles fores sto Recent changes kai den hxera oti eisai ellhnas... nomizw pws sou eixa grapsei ena talk page se kapoio athro sta agglika... [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 15:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Next Meeting==<br />
<br />
Sorry to clutter up your talk page, but just informing you about the next meeting. It is planned that we hold our next meeting on '''Monday''' the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/13 April 2009|13<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/13 April 2009|here]]. Remember that it's on Easter Monday, not Easter Sunday. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Xristos Anesth==<br />
Xristos Anesth re patriwth! xronia polla![[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 08:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Multiple language words==<br />
Just a question how to deal with words that exist in multiple languages - [[Tur]], [[Tûr]], [[Aran]] for example. What layout do we use? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Orcs==<br />
Exw dei edw kai kairo oti psaxnete gia contributors stin selida twn Orcs. Loipon, ama psaxnete akomh endiaferomai egw na voithisw giati ta goustarw poly ta Orcs. Oti idees exeis pes mou. [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 14:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Tengwar==<br />
A lot of the tengwar pages require specific fonts, and people that don't have those fonts installed get gibberish. How about a template at the top, saying "for optimal reading, this page requires any of the following fonts"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==[[Common Eldarin|CE]] "3"==<br />
I see you use the 3 to represent the [[wikipedia:Yogh|yogh]]/ʒ. If you look at the edittools bar ("Insert:") at the bottom, you can see the actual symbol next to the dagger symbol. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Amrod]] (and [[Amras]]) ==<br />
<br />
You’re not wrong in what you added to the etymology of that name (although ''Ambaráto'' is the Telerin form, appropriate for Aegnor, whereas Amrod would of course have the Quenya form ''Ambarto''), but unfortunately it makes the messed up alignment of names that was already there even worse. Have a look at what I wrote on the Talk pages of both twins, and see if you can follow what I argue. Feel free to get back to me (or add to the Talk pages) when you got problems. But I think probably the time has come to untangle the mess and reorganise both articles (on the twins). I would be glad of your opinion on that. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:40, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Upcoming Meeting ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering if you wanted to attend an upcoming meeting this Sunday. If you can make, please [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/27 June 2010|sign up]]. Thanks! --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Cirth/Angerthas ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering why you moved Angerthas Daeron, Angerthas Erebor and Angerthas Moria to [[Cirth/Angerthas Daeron]], [[Cirth/Angerthas Erebor]] and [[Cirth/Angerthas Moria]] respectively? It seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me (especially as no article links directly to these three), and I'm not sure what they mean as subtitles: are they meant to be subpages of [[Cirth]] or are you just indicating in the titles that "''cirth''" can be used as another name for "''angerthas''"? Would you object if I were to move them back to their original articles? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:22, 7 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==New words==<br />
Hi Sage! Sorry to trespass your linguistic ground by creating an article for ''[[Mae]]''. Since you have more experience on this field, do you have any thoughts on what I did on the page? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:31, 28 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Meeting - Sunday 5th September ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Sage! Just a quick message to inform you that we are holding our next [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings|Meeting]] on [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010|Sunday, 5<sup>th</sup> September 2010]] at 7pm [[wikipedia:UTC|UTC]]. Whether you are or aren't able to attend, please sign your name on the [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 September 2010|here]]. Hope to see you on Sunday! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Meeting - Sunday 3rd October ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage - do you reckon you'll be available for [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|tomorrow's meeting]]? It would be good to see you there! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A Few Issues ==<br />
<br />
Just a few things I think you should know about:<br />
* This may seem trivial, but could you make sure that you end your sentences in a full-stop?<br />
* When quoting, you should indicate such with quotation marks, otherwise it is technically plagiarism.<br />
* With regards to references, [[Template:References]] has to be at the bottom of the article, or else they won't work (see [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Amon_Amarth&curid=1115&oldid=128927 this], for example).<br />
* Also re: referencing, could you make sure you include page numbers for all publications save for ''The Hobbit'', ''The Lord of the Rings'', ''The Silmarillion'' and ''The Unfinished Tales''; in particular, '' A Readers' Companion'' has only one pagination so there is no need to omit page numbers.<br />
**I am using a copy of ''Nomenclature'' that was handed to me before the Companion was published, so I can't know the pages. In any case I think it is not necessary, since the Nomenclature is arranged like a dictionary. If that's a problem, then I should reference simply "Nomenclature" instead. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* There's no need to remove interwiki links (unless they are incorrect).<br />
**You mean the links to other languages? That must be by accident, I didn't meddle with those. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Also, I really must ask that you don't move articles unless there is clear reason, and when you do, use the Move button at the top of the page, and don't copy and paste. The problem with copying and pasting is that it separates an article from its history and therefore obscures its development. Obviously, if the article is spelt incorrectly, is clearly under an under-used name, or uses our old verbose disambiguation system, you can move it without debate, but otherwise it's best to just do a quick message on the talk page (and if no one replies assume it's safe to proceed).<br />
**I try to separate English-named articles from Elvish-named articles. My personal rule of thumb is that the main article is under the English name; the Elvish articles have a link to the main article, and linguistic/etymological notes. When I see e.g. both Silvertine and Zirakzigil redirect to Celebdil, the best thing I can do is replace the redirects with actual content, and copy the bulk of the text to the one that fits most; I can't put an explanation of "tine" in the article for Celebdil, and I can't create an article for Silvertine only to put this explanation. The 'Move' action was unavailable because the target was occupied by the redirects. I understand that copying instead of moving must cause such issues, but while in the fever of adding etymologies and encountering these obstacles, I confess that the issues you mentioned seemed trivial at that moment *blush* [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Disambiguation pages should only include the actual articles which require disambiguating - etymological information (other than a brief description in the opening line) should be seeded into the individual articles.<br />
**I fail to understand the reason. Why should the etymology of the name "Hurin" be copied to the five articles of the five individuals called Hurin and not in the single disambiguation page? In similar cases I'd write the full etymology in the disambig page and in the individual articles put a "See Hurin (disambiguation)" link under "Etymology". It seems cleaner and tidier that way. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Re: categorisation. There is no point categorising articles in categories which don't exist; it does nothing and just puts a redlink at the bottom of the page. Creation categories (and categorising them), is exactly the same as creation (and categorising) articles. (See [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Oathbreakers&oldid=128044 this] for the redlink.)<br />
None of the above is meant in vitriol, rudeness, admonition or patronisation: it's just a few pointers to make sure that TG conforms to the very highest standards to be something we can all be proud of. Do keep up the work, here - you are a ''very'' valued contributor. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:08, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Also, be sure to follow the advice given {{Redlink|[[Portal:Locations/Category tree|here]]}} on the Locations category structure. It seems a lot of editors don't understand the structure I put in place, that page should go some way in explaining what to do (if unsure, just ask me :) ). --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:56, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== File:Beleriand-eriador-fonstad.png ==<br />
[[File:Steven White Jr. - ME FA 02.gif|thumb|right|150px]]<br />
Hi there. Can you please tell me whose maps you used to create the compound map? The basic Beleriand map is obviously the one derived by me (with the cut-outs where the forst labels are in CT's original map) when I first attempted to join CT's maps at Mount Himring. See an earlier sketch of said map on the right. I wonder how that ended up on the web at all...<br />
[[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 23:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi there. I made this composition some years ago, using elements from various maps I had found online. My purpose was to portray a "sunken" Beleriand with the 3rd Age outline of Lindon, and Fonstad's North. It seems that I used your composite map as a base (yes, the one where you have Himring marked in red). When I edited the map recently in order to upload it, I had a [[Wikipedia:false memory|false memory]] that my base had been Fonstad's Arda map, including the shores and outlines; but now that you made me check again, I saw that the southern shoreline as she envisioned it, differs greatly from this one. It turns out that the greater part of this map is your work. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 01:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::You mean the one on the right? Where did you find that? The file is almost 10 years old and I had forgotten about it. I later adjusted the southern coastline, as can be seen on the map in my user page. Those were the days before Photoshop :-) Maybe I should get into the mapmaking business again. My clash with the Tolkien Estate is 6 years back, after all. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 07:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I had a newer version of that map of yours, part of a big collection of fan-made maps I had downloaded from fansites. I think this one was on Tolkienion.com? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::Ah, that may be. I had to remove the maps section of the Tolkienion when I got in trouble over the maps. However, the maps still exist [http://7a6972656f5f74637568.killerhor.net/index2.php?framesource=indexframe.php here]. But the map you used is not there. I have lost a couple of maps when I had a hard drive failure a few years back. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 13:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Elvish roots/stems==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. I have a question about how to interpret a specific form often occurring in the ''Etymologies''. For example, for the base AK-, the form *''akrā'' appears, after which follows the Quenya and Noldorin forms. Now, my question is: what is the form *''akrā'' supposed to signify? Primitive Quendian? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 13:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for the quick answer (for other editors, see [[User talk:Morgan#Roots]])! I hope you don't mind that I have some related questions (I suggest that you answer here, since that makes it easier to follow the conversation):<br />
#Which form should we use as title for these articles? ÁLAT- or just ÁLAT? I've noticed that earlier root articles omit the hyphen. Is this intentional? I started to include the hyphens in the articles I just created, since this is how they appear in the ''Etymologies''.<br />
**I guess the hyphens indicate that the roots are not complete words. Since this is one of the definitions of a root, and '''all''' roots have one, I consider trivial such an indication. If you look at Ardalambion or linguistic discussions in the mailing lists, there is no hyphen. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#How should we think about the e/ë question in Quenya words? Should the name of the article be, for example, aiwe or aiwë?<br />
**I am against using the diaereses for several reasons, but I think the TG prefers to include them. A couple of Quenya articles I wrote were renamed by some other editor. In any case, I never use them :D [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***According to Fauskanger, "''Tolkien often uses the diaeresis (two dots as in Manwë) to clarify the pronunciation of Elvish names for readers of English, but it is hardly ever used in the Etymologies, a work that was never intended for wider circulation.''" ([http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/index/indexs.htm]). Perhaps this is a good reason to actually use the diaereses? Or is it possible for you to explain the reasons against using them? I just noticed the issue in the article on ''[[yáve]]''. I found out that the spelling ''yávë'' is used in ''The Silmarillion'' (appendix) - isn't then this the more "proper" (canonical?) spelling? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#A general linguistic remark: right now, the standard on TG is to use the past tense in article text which is "inside" the legendarium. However, in linguistic texts (such as etymology sections and "dictionary" articles on specific words) we always use the present tense. Is there a reason behind these different uses? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:51, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
**I see that languages, as abstract entities, are outside of time. Once a language exists, its vocabulary and rules will always "exist", even if the language itself is dead or ancient. For example everyone says "Amor in Latin means love" rather than "meant". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***Good point. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Dots===<br />
The dots signify nothing to Quenya itself. Tolkien in his personal writings (and the Elves) did not use dots. Its quite different from the accents which '''are''' significant to the language and denote a long vowel; yave and yáve would be two different words, with different pronunciation, and different Tengwar spelling.<br><br />
On the contrary, the dots don't exist in the language and are of course not represented in tengwar. Tolkien invented them for the published books only to visually assist the occasional English readers to remember that ''e'' is pronounced. In fact, all ''e''s in Quenya are pronounced but the English (or French, who also has silent ''e''s) reader perhaps needs such a reminder. yáve and yávë are not different spellings, they are exactly the same thing, only that yávë is perhaps more visually helpful for the English (or the French).<br><br />
The reason '''not''' to use the dots, besides being not a part of the language, is that it's quite more complicated to write and search in the wiki for ''yávë'' than ''yáve''.<br><br />
And if I may mention, in Albanian ''ë'' signifies a silent ''e'', so it would have the contrary effect to an Albanian reader :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am personally in favour of the diaereses: this is an English-language website aimed at those who know English - diaereses have a clear meaning in English which I think it is important to maintain. Furthermore, should we be over-ruling the Professor's use of diaereses? <br />
<br />
:The problem of typing/searching can be solved by redirects. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:31, 2 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree with Mith, I think we should use Yávë, with Yáve as redirects. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]]<br />
::I'd argue that the Professor used the diaereses with publication in mind, not as a rule-not-to-be-over-ruled; or else such forms would be seen in HoMe. It would be interested to bring the matter up in the forum, what do you say? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 20:03, 4 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I don't know if a publication post-mortem can really be conclusive evidence either way of the professor's intentions. However, as you point out, the Professor included diaereses with publication in mind and he never had HOME in mind for publication (and if he did we can't know that he wouldn't have gone through adding diaereses). I think it's a moot point, really. <br />
:::Furthermore, is it not confusing to readers not so well-versed in Tolkienian linguistics to encounter words lacking diaereses where they think they should see them? (I notice, for instance, that many scholars retain diaereses where Tolkien uses them.)<br />
:::I know it can be hard for non-native speakers of English to understand, but the diaereses really is a valuable tool in aiding pronunciation amongst native speakers (remember Cate Blanchett's "''The light of Erendil''"!), and, contrary to popular belief amongst some (non-native speakers) scholars, it is understand by many: words such as coöperate, continuüm, reëlect, zoölogy and naïve as well as names like Chloë, Zaïre, Boötes, and the Brontë Sisters. Notwithstanding the above, I would still support the use of diaereses as a distinguishing feature of unusualness: in English, any form of diacritic signifies "''I am a foreign word.''" - it creates an aura of intrigue and mystery which I wouldn't wish to lose.<br />
:::It would be good if you could attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 December 2010|the meeting today]], I've added this issue on the list of things to discuss. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:44, 5 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Elvish/PQ==<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to this question of mine: [[Talk:ÁS-AT]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Second Age Globe ==<br />
<br />
As you pointed out, I completely forgot that Arda wasn't made round until the end of the Second Age. I really like the images you put together for the First Age and Third Age globes as I used in my [[User:KingAragorn/Sandbox|sandbox]] for the location portal. Would it be possible for you to create a Second Age globe in the same style? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Boromir and Beornings==<br />
Hello Sage! Just drawing you attention to [[Talk:Boromir#Etymology]] and [[Talk:Beornings]], where I discuss your edits.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Use of asterisk==<br />
I noted that you use both single and double asterisks in the article on [[Valaraukar]]. I think the use needs to be explained, either by making the asterisks into links (as was my initial idea), or, as can be seen here [[Talk:*]], where [[User:Mith]] is of the opinion that we should avoid the use of asterisk altogether. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 15:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am not sure on what you want me to comment [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::What does the double asterisk (**) signify? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The double asterisk is explained in [[asterisk]] :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:00, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Oh, thank you! :) Then I'll go ahead and make internal links for the asterisks (at least for the time being - since there is a debate on wether we should use asterisks or not). (BTW, don't you find it more convenient to keep a conversation to one talk page? It tends to get confusing having to switch between talk pages when following a conversation.) /Cheers --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Taniquetil ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! On this article I removed the redlinks as I find redlinks ugly whilst showing to the reader where our holes are (and giving false hope that those articles may exist); I personally think redlinks shouldn't be created unless you expect to create the article ''yourself'' or have a realistic expectation that someone else will do so soon. Are you intending on creating articles for ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, personally I don't think redlinks ugly and I consider them only 'work to be done in the future'. For example, if someone ever will create an article for "nique", he will have to manually trace every page containing the word and wikify it. I believe redlinks can be useful by the "Wanted Pages" of the "What links here" features. But I respect the different aesthetics about the wiki. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:02, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I accept that - and indeed agree - so long as it ''is'' "work to be done in the future" and not just "work someone else ''might'' do at some point"; if an article never gets created the redlink serves no useful function. We have 6690 wanted pages (of which a good chunk are linguistic ones) - a figure which is increasing and not decreasing - so the work isn't really getting done; in the meeting last September I argued, "''let's be honest, they probably aren't all articles waiting to happen''".<br />
::The problem is especially true for linguistic articles because it's such a specialised area there are very few people who know enough to edit those articles and even fewer who are happy to do so, therefore you can't ever realistically expect anyone to ever create those articles. Are you planning on creating links to ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:23, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Well I will have in mind to complete immediately the articles I wikify from now on. I will try to work on complete trees and their related pages when possible. Don't worry about that. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:46, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==PQ/PE==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage! I need help on the following: should "Proto-Eldarin" be redirected to Primitive Quendian or Common Eldarin? Or do you think Proto-Eldarin have its own article ([http://reocities.com/athens/parthenon/9902/langlst.html Lisa Star] says that it sometimes seem to refer to PQ and sometimes to CE)? I've tried (without success) to find this term in Tolkien's writings.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Obviously Proto-Eldarin is not an attested form, but a term originating before Tolkien's writings about Primitive Quendian were published, and before any details about the Eldar vs Avari were known. I think it is safe to redirect it to Common Eldarin. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:37, 6 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Etymology of ''Sauron''==<br />
Sage, do you have ideas/comments on how we should present the etymology of the name ''Sauron'' on Tolkien Gateway? Having investigated it a bit, a complete version is [[User:Morgan/Sandbox6|more complicated]] than what I think could be presented on a general wiki article. As I understand it, Tolkien struggled with deriving ''Sauron'' either from Sindarin ''thaur'' (PE:17, p. 183; EQS), or giving the name a Quenya derivation (''saura'' "cruel") ultimately deriving from a base THAW (PE:17, p. 184; Letter 297). --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
:We can mention both derivations from ''saura'' and ''thaur''. It seems like it is needed an entry on the word ''[[saura]]'' which seems to have suffered most under Tolkien's revisions, and provide them in its article. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks - I've added the info to our Sauron etymology section.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Letter 427==<br />
Hi Sage, I just saw you added {{redlink|[[Letter 427]]}} as a reference to [[-nguo]]. This letter does however not exist, could you look into this and add the correct letter? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Legendary locations==<br />
Ah! I had forgotten about the Last Desert - it's a good addition to the template. I'm sure there are some others I haven't thought about.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:14, 30 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Images ==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. As you probably know, I've been sorting out images on TG and making sure that they all have the proper file licensing templates. I'm sure that you will agree that this is a mammoth task; therefore I would like to ask for your help sorting out the images that you've uploaded. Please see below for a list of files that need sorting and/or checking.<br />
<br />
You noted on these images that they were public domain, so I've put a PD template on them. However, we need to know the author's name so that they can be categorised and named properly.<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Rumil2.gif.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Elemm.gif]]}}<br />
:The author made those as spontaneous doodles. He is not a professional and doesn't pursue any credit, and as far as I know he wouldn't like to have his name published online either. I wonder if we can support the option to name some files as "Anonymous" [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Please check these maps and decide whether you, [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] (her estate or publisher, I don't know), or someone else owns the copyright. You'll notice that on some I've guessed and put on a file licensing template, but please check them.<br />
:The maps I have marked with an asterisk are derivatives of (usually) Fonstad's works, therefore I don't have the authority to grant any permission to publish them under any term. I think that we should track Fonstad's copyright holders. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Almaren.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Evolution of Arda.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Reunited Kingdom.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Middle-earth.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:1050.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1105.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1115.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1125.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1132.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1149.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1150.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1200.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1300.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1350.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1498.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1129.png]]*<br />
*{{redlink|File:Belfalas 2nd Age.jpg}} (NB: I tried to contact [[Andreas Möhn]] but his e-mail bounced)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Beleriand and Eriador collage.png]] <br />
:this is a collage of maps by Fonstad, Raw and User:Smeagol [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Location of Numenor.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Great Plague.png]]<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Pan-route.png]]}}*<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Overhill-route.png]]}}*<br />
*[[:File:Pauline Baynes - The Little Kingdom.jpg]]<br />
:this is a map by Pauline Baynes, therefore it should take the template that other Baynes' images do. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I've put an unknown copyright status on these miscellaneous images. Please identify the copyright holder and conact them for permission. If you want me to contact them, just ask.<br />
:I do believe that it would be better if you include these in your existing work. You have better experience in this and you will do quicker and better than if we shared the work. However I will put notes to help you [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:PP banner.jpg]]<br />
:this is a derivative of collective work by members of the GTS. You can contact them from their Facebook page. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Michael Gaydos - TolkienWilliamsLewis.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Daniel reeve.jpg]]}}<br />
:the picture was taken from a package of maps by Decipher. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwafrune.gif}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwarfrunes.JPEG}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dansmith.png}}<br />
:these pictures were taken by Dan Smith's font site. FYI I contacted him once but he didn't reply [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Mani and Sol.jpg]]<br />
:I took the image from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M%C3%A1ni_and_S%C3%B3l_by_Lorenz_Fr%C3%B8lich.jpg here]. It belongs in the PD. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Alex lewis.jpg]]}}<br />
:this picture was taken by members of the GTS at Oxonmoot (I think 2002). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Idril.gif]]}}<br />
:I will try to contact MB and ask him if we can use his heraldry here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Steve Notley - Bob the Angry Flower's Lord of the Ringz.gif]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Gift.jpg]]}}<br />
:This was made by the Hildebrandts [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Brothers Hildebrandt - Return of the King.jpg]]}} (NB: I will try to contact Greg Hildebrandt)<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Cave.jpg]]}}<br />
:Made by Wenzel, however I don't know what's the copyright and if he gave permission for this [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Many thanks for your help!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 10:50, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thanks for the info. I shall grow through them at some point.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Buckland==<br />
See [[Talk:Buckland]]. In no primary source does it talk about Buckland becoming part of the Shire (it does for the Westmarch, however). Indeed "Eastmarch" is not mentioned, but "East March" is (only once).--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Category:Greco-Romance names ==<br />
<br />
Hey Sage. [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012|At the meeting just gone]] we discussed your [[:Category:Greco-Roman names|Category:Greco-Romance names]]. You may have noticed that I moved it (because I thought that you have made a spelling mistake). You can read the discussion [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012/Transcript|here]]. As you can see, we decided that it would be best to diffuse the category into "Romanic names" and "Ancient Greek names". Are you happy with this? If so, could you sort it out?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Please have a look at [[Category talk:Greco-Roman names]] [[User:Sage|Sage]] 23:49, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Westlands==<br />
I just noticed that your reference in [[Westlands]] didn't work as the parameter "X1" doesn't exist in [[Template:SD]]. I've changed it to "XI" (Epilogue). Was this correct or did you use another chapter as source? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 16:39, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Oops! yes, that's correct :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 19:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Alatar and Pallando==<br />
<br />
Sage, do you know of any good linguistic analysis of the names ''Alatar'' and ''Pallando''? I made a quick search, but couldn't find any -- surely it must have been discussed in VT or PE? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:No, other than the lotr.wikia.com speculates that Pallando is related to palan/palla [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:54, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::{{UT|Istari}}, Note 6 says: "''Pallando'', despite the spelling, perhaps contains ''palan'' 'afar', as in ''palantír'' and in ''Palarran'' 'Far Wanderer', the name of Aldarion's ship." This is C.R.T.'s speculation for Pallando, could we speculate Alatar's etymology? Or should we just say that it's unknown?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Yes we could. There is ''alata'' "great", ''al(a)-'' "blessed" with ''atar'' "father" or ''tar'' "high one" and so on. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Right. Just to make a note of it, Encylopedia of Arda also suggests that ''Alatar'' can be interpreted as "after-comer" [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/alatar.html].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:43, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Category:Angicised Westron words ==<br />
<br />
Are you going to make ''[[Special:WantedCategories|Category:Angicised Westron words]]''?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Maps==<br />
Who made these maps?<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:At the crossroads map.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Over hill.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Short Rest.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Roast Mutton.png]]}}--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:32, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:They are croppings from [[:File:Mith01.jpg|this map]] but since they would take the unknown-copyright tag anyway, I didn't bother to add more information for that moment. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:35, 3 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lenition/Mutation==<br />
Hello Sage! I noticed that we have no separate page for mutation in Sindarin (like we have for [[lenition]]). Do you reckon such a page could be useful, or do you know if we have any other article to which mutation can be redirected? Thanks --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:23, 12 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==The "Hobbit" week==<br />
Sage, do you have any thoughts about this: can the "archaic" names of the days of the week be said to be Westron, and the later names to be Hobbitish (Kuduk)? I'm just thinking of how to categorize the names according to language.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The names ''Monendei'' and so are Middle English and can be considered "Middle Westron" according to [https://sites.google.com/site/endorenya/language-periodizations this project]. The modern day names ''Monday'' etc can be considered regular developments in "modern" Westron, but I don't think we can tell how much they are proper, or Hobbitish Westron. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:34, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:For example, I am not sure if "Trewsday" was the name also used by the Rangers, Gondorians, Gandalf, etc, or whether they would say *"Treesday". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:37, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Wintring==<br />
Thanks for correcting my silly edit at the Wintring article, Sage! :-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:41, 18 November 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bain pic ==<br />
<br />
Since there don't seem to be any other images of Bain on the site (yet), is there really any harm in keeping the shot from "The Desolation of Smaug" as his 'profile pic,' so to speak? --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 03:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:According to my own personal understanding I wouldn't use it as a main picture of a canonical article, but other than that there isn't any harm keeping it as a profile pic :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:57, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Articles needed citations ==<br />
<br />
I don't know if you've ever looked through [[:Category:Articles needing citation|Articles needing citation]], but it contains 246 articles to which the <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> template has been applied. For the majority of these it appears to be on etymologies; with this is mind, I was wondering whether you (perhaps with [[User:Morgan]]'s help?) might be willing to go through these articles and either add sources or remove/amend the articles as appropriate? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:52, 11 November 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wereworms ==<br />
<br />
There is no image with the wereworms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in tolkien gateway at all.Someone should upload at least an image on tolkien gateway with the wereworms as they appeared in the third Hobbit film.What do you think?<br />
<br />
:Good idea! Go on, as I don't have any pictures from that film. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:00, 1 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As i have said, there is no image with the were-worms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in Tolkien Gateway.Can you upload at least an image on Tolkien Gateway with the were-worms as they appeared on the third Hobbit film? You can find on Internet.I don't have the ability to upload images on Tolkien Gateway generally, but you do have this ability.<br />
<br />
:I haven't even watched the film. Find me an image and I will consider it. Also, consider creating an account here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:13, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes.I already found not only one, but two images:[http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BotFAWereWorms01.jpg this one] and [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/8/85/BOTFA_Wereworm.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150306211236 this one].What do you think? Are these images good or not?<br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].<br />
This place, Trollshaws,appears in the First Hobbit film.You can check it by seeing the movie.I am telling that because [[User:Ederchil]] removes my editing about the Trollshaws in which i say that Trollshaws do appear in the First Hobbit film.You can see it [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&action=history here] or [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&oldid=291125 here]. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
:Please check the others's replies to you, their comments and the edits they do to your edits. The administrators's obligations do NOT include discussing and explaining again ana again their points and correcting the grammar and spelling of our edits. Ederchil said he did this for most of your edits but that can't go on for ever; from a point they will start just reverting your edits, and if you insist, they will block you. As for your edit on Trollshaws, you don't add any useful information (just appearing as in the book isn't something worth to be mentioned) and also you have a grammar mistake, as in almost all of your edits (should be "its role" instead of "'''it's''' role"). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:21, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The IP address of this anon is in Athens. Would you be able to explain in Greek so the user can better understand why their edits are being undone/reverted/amended? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 23:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes I am Greek.I am from Athens.{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2017&diff=291317User talk:Mith/20172017-01-09T20:40:01Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Discussion */</p>
<hr />
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<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''&rArr; Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table><br />
<!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--><br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]]. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
: I am aware of the discussion, so you don't have to prompt me to read the discussion. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:42, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? Also, these games do exist in this title that I have just edited. You can search for it on Internet. You couild create pages about these games on Tolkien Gateway. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
::I saw that only two of these games are mentioned in Tolkien Gateway, on page [[The Hobbit (film series)]] in Content ''Games and merchandise''.That is good but these games need their own pages on Tolkien Gateway and more references to these games in Tolkien Gateway. Do you understand what I am saying? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:::This is a wiki. As a wiki the content is dictated by individual users who, of their own free will, decide what content should be included. There is no commissioning editor here who decrees what should be included on a page; this means that if no one wants to do it then it doesn't get done. I never wanted to edit the list of games by Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, so I never did it. It was not a deliberate or malevolent decision; I decide what I want to edit, not what I don't.<br />
:::As for the titled of the games, as you can see [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/a-journey-through-middle/gjgkjeheegjnnmheaflhdocglkiegoni?hl=en here] and [http://orcattack.thehobbit.com/ here] they do not exist in the title you edited. They were undoubtedly released for the release of those films but they do not have those titles. However, if you have an issue with a specific article please include that on the talk page of the respective article.<br />
:::Do ''you'' understand everything that I have said? If you do not, I am sorry to say that your English is insufficient for this website. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::OK. I understand about the titles of these games.But these games are considered to be The Hobbit film Trilogy tie-in video games. Furthemore, these games set in the world of Middle-earth and playable characters are characters from the books of Tokien about Middle-earth.On Tolkien Gateway exist pages about games that are based on The Lord of the Rings film trilogy, such us [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)]] and [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)]].The same thing could be done for The Hobbit film Trilogy tie-in video games.That is why I think these pages about these games have to be created on Tolkien Gateway.Don't you think? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:::::I have just explained to you that there is no conscious decision not to create those articles. If you want to create those articles, create those articles. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:26, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
But I don't have the ability to create articles or upload images on Tolkien Gateway generally.In fact I don't even have the ability to create a whatever page on Tolkien Gateway, but you do have this ability.That is why I am asking it from you. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Fran_Walsh&diff=291315Fran Walsh2017-01-09T20:17:18Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Awards */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Frances Walsh''' ([[10 January|January 10]], [[1959]]) is a New Zealand screenwriter and producer. She is the wife of [[Peter Jackson]], director of ''[[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|The Lord of the Rings (film series)]]'' and ''[[The Hobbit (film series)|The Hobbit (film series)]]''. She, Jackson, and [[Philippa Boyens]] are credited with writing the screenplays for all six films, as well as [[Guillermo del Toro]] for ''The Hobbit (film series)''. She also wrote the songs "[[Gollum's Song]]", "[[Into the West]]" and "[[A Shadow Lies Between Us]]". Walsh also provided the "Ringwraith scream" sound effect for the films.<br />
<br />
==Awards==<br />
* [[2001]] - '''[http://www.sefca.org/ SEFCA Award]''', Best Screenplay, Adapted, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
* 2002 - '''[http://www.afi.org.au/ AFI Award (Australia)]''', Best Foreign Film, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
* 2002 - '''[http://www.chlotrudis.org/ Chloturdis Award]''', Best Screenplay - Adapted, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
* 2002 - '''[http://www.cinemaclips.com/PFCS.htm PFCS Award]''', Best Screenplay - Adaptation, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
* 2002 - '''[http://www.empireonline.com/ Empire Award]''', Best Film, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
* 2002 - '''[http://www.AFI.com/ AFI Award (USA)]''', AFI Movie of the Year, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
* 2003 - '''[http://www.sfwa.org/awards/ Nebula Award]''', Best Script, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
* 2003 - '''[http://www.dvdexclusive.com/ DVD Exclusive Award]''', Best Audio Commentary, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''<br />
* 2003 - '''Chloturdis Award''', Audience Award, Best Screenplay - Adapted, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''<br />
* 2003 - '''AFI Award (Australia)''', Best Foreign Film, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''<br />
* 2003 - '''PFCS Award''', Best Screenplay - Adaptation, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''<br />
* 2003 - '''PFCS Award''', Best Original Song, ''"[[Gollum's Song]]"'' <br />
* [[2004]] - '''Nebula Award''', Best Script, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]]''<br />
* 2004 - '''[http://www.oscars.org/ Academy Award]''', Best Music, Original Song, "[[Into the West]]"<br />
* 2004 - '''Academy Award''', Best Picture, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''<br />
* 2004 - '''Academy Award''', Best Writing, Best Screenplay, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''<br />
* 2004 - '''[http://www.bafta.org/ BAFTA]''', Best Film, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''<br />
* 2004 - '''BAFTA''', Best Screenplay - Adapted, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''<br />
* 2004 - '''[http://www.hfpa.org/ Golden Globe]''', Best Original Song - Motion Picture, "Into the West"<br />
* 2004 - '''AFI Award (Australia)''', Best Foreign Film, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''<br />
* 2004 - '''[http://www.saturnawards.org/ Saturn Award]''', Best Writing, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''<br />
* 2004 - '''PFCS Award''', Best Screenplay - Adaptation, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''<br />
* 2004 - '''[http://www.ofcs.org/ OFCS Award]''', Best Screenplay, Adapted, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''<br />
* 2004 - '''[http://www.producersguild.org/ PGA Award]''', Motion Picture Producer of the Year Award, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''<br />
* 2005 - '''DVD Exclusive Award''', Best Audio Commentary, ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King]]''<br />
* 2005 – '''[http://www.grammy.com/ Grammy]''', Best Song Written for a Motion Picture, Television or Other Visual Media, ''"[[Into the West]]"''<br />
* [[2014]] - '''Empire Award''', Best Sci-Fi/Fantasy, ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]]''<br />
* 2014 - ''' [http://heartlandfilm.org/festival/ Heartland Film Festival]''', Truly Moving Picture Award, ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]''<br />
* 2014 - ''' [http://www.producersguild.org/ PGA Awards]''', Vanguard Award, [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' (film series)]]<br />
<br />
== External Links ==<br />
* [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0909638/ Fran Walsh] at IMDb<br />
* {{WP|Fran Walsh}}<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Walsh, Fran}}<br />
[[Category:Screenwriters]]<br />
[[Category:Composers]]<br />
[[Category:New Zealand people]]<br />
[[Category:People by name]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Fran Walsh]]<br />
[[fi:Fran Walsh]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=291314User talk:Ederchil2017-01-09T20:08:37Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Complaint and Discussions */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
{| align="right"<br />
| __TOC__<br />
|}<br />
<center><br />
=Archive=<br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br />
= 2017 =<br />
</center><br />
<!--Start typing below this line, and below all other messages--><br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br />
<br />
== Discussions ==<br />
Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Complaint and Discussions ==<br />
<br />
Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
<br />
:I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:I'm largely retired from active content editing. I still do clean up work, though. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 07:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why?Why are you retired from active content editing? You can still create pages on Tolkien Gateway.Don't be so pessimistic about yourself. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2017&diff=291313User talk:Mith/20172017-01-09T20:06:48Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Discussion */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2016}}<br />
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''&rArr; Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table><br />
<!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--><br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]]. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
: I am aware of the discussion, so you don't have to prompt me to read the discussion. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:42, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? Also, these games do exist in this title that I have just edited. You can search for it on Internet. You couild create pages about these games on Tolkien Gateway. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
::I saw that only two of these games are mentioned in Tolkien Gateway, on page [[The Hobbit (film series)]] in Content ''Games and merchandise''.That is good but these games need their own pages on Tolkien Gateway and more references to these games in Tolkien Gateway. Do you understand what I am saying? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
:::This is a wiki. As a wiki the content is dictated by individual users who, of their own free will, decide what content should be included. There is no commissioning editor here who decrees what should be included on a page; this means that if no one wants to do it then it doesn't get done. I never wanted to edit the list of games by Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, so I never did it. It was not a deliberate or malevolent decision; I decide what I want to edit, not what I don't.<br />
:::As for the titled of the games, as you can see [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/a-journey-through-middle/gjgkjeheegjnnmheaflhdocglkiegoni?hl=en here] and [http://orcattack.thehobbit.com/ here] they do not exist in the title you edited. They were undoubtedly released for the release of those films but they do not have those titles. However, if you have an issue with a specific article please include that on the talk page of the respective article.<br />
:::Do ''you'' understand everything that I have said? If you do not, I am sorry to say that your English is insufficient for this website. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:26, 9 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
OK. I understand about the titles of these games.But these games are considered to be The Hobbit film Trilogy tie-in video games. Furthemore, these games set in the world of Middle-earth and playable characters are characters from the books of Tokien about Middle-earth.On Tolkien Gateway exist pages about games that are based on The Lord of the Rings film trilogy, such us [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game)]] and [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (video game)]].The same thing could be done for The Hobbit film Trilogy tie-in video games.That is why I think these pages about these games have to be created on Tolkien Gateway.Don't you think? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2017&diff=291304User talk:Mith/20172017-01-09T03:46:45Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Discussion */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2016}}<br />
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''&rArr; Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table><br />
<!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--><br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]]. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
: I am aware of the discussion, so you don't have to prompt me to read the discussion. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:42, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? Also, these games do exist in this title that I have just edited. You can search for it on Internet. You couild create pages about these games on Tolkien Gateway. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
I saw that only two of these games are mentioned in Tolkien Gateway, on page [[The Hobbit (film series)]] in Content ''Games and merchandise''.That is good but these games need their own pages on Tolkien Gateway and more references to these games in Tolkien Gateway. Do you understand what I am saying? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mith/2017&diff=291303User talk:Mith/20172017-01-09T03:18:04Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Discussion */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{talkarchive|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2016}}<br />
<table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width:80%; margin-left: auto; margin-right:auto;"><tr><td rowspan="2">[[Image:Nuvola apps edu languages.png|none|50px|link=]]</td><td><div id="talk" style="text-align: center; padding: 5px; clear: both;><big>'''''Welcome to [[User:Mith|Mith]]'s talk page.'''''</big></div></td></tr><tr><td><ul><li>Please [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} post your new topic at the ''bottom''] of this page, including a '''<nowiki>==Descriptive heading==</nowiki>'''.</li><li>You should sign and date your posts by inserting "'''<span style="letter-spacing:.2em;"><nowiki>~~</nowiki>~~</span>'''" at the end of them.</li><li>Please indent your posts with "''':'''" if replying to an existing topic (or "'''::'''" if replying to a reply, etc.).</li><li>I will generally respond ''here'' to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article talk page, if you are writing to me about an article), so you may want to [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=watch}} watch this page].</li><li>If I have left a message on ''your'' talk page, please continue the discussion there; '''DO NOT''' reply here. This is ensure that discussions do not become fragmented over several talk pages.</li></ul>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} '''&rArr; Start a new talk topic.''']</td></tr></table><br />
<!--EDIT BELOW THIS POINT--><br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]]. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
: I am aware of the discussion, so you don't have to prompt me to read the discussion. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:42, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? Also, these games do exist in this title that I have just edited. You can search for it on Internet. You couild create pages about these games on Tolkien Gateway. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ederchil&diff=291302User talk:Ederchil2017-01-09T03:17:30Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Complaint and Discussions */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{usertalk}}<br />
<br />
{| align="right"<br />
| __TOC__<br />
|}<br />
<center><br />
=Archive=<br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2008|January 12, 2008 - December 19, 2008]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2009|January 9, 2009 - December 23, 2009]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2010|January 9, 2010 - November 19, 2010]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2011|February 14, 2011 - December 14, 2011]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2012-3|February 15, 2012 - December 14, 2013]]'''<br><br />
'''[[User talk:Ederchil/2014-6|February 1, 2012 - September 6, 2016]]'''<br><br />
= 2017 =<br />
</center><br />
<!--Start typing below this line, and below all other messages--><br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
Hello.I would like to discuss about something [[Talk:Battle of Fornost|here]].<br />
<br />
== Discussions ==<br />
Let's talk about it [[Talk:Quest of Erebor|here]], [[Talk:Arnor|here]] and [[User talk:2.86.255.128|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].{{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
It should be mentioned in any way that Ravenhill was the place of the final duel between Thorin and Azog in the films. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
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:It should be mentioned in a way that resembles English. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:36, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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Why don't you put in your own way? I mean you can write it in your own way (the fact that in Ravendill happened the final confrontation between Thorin and Azog). {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
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<br />
:I've done that for roughly 80% of what you've added so far. Please improve your English. This is not optional. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 19:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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== Complaint and Discussions ==<br />
<br />
Fool.Why did you do that? After all I have done? After all the editings that I have done in Tolkien Gateway;Is this the way you thank me? By blogging me; Is this how you thank the others for their contribitions here? By blogging them? Congratulations.Congratulations.You should be given an award for that.This is the way you thank the others.By blogging them.Right?You are an asshole.If the only thing you know what to do is blogging them and not discussing with them, then do it again. OK? Well done.--[[User talk:2.86.255.128|2.86.255.128]] 20:25, 05 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Blogging is writing a weblog. What I did was blocking you. Because I've had to clean up all your edits, and you still continued. Don't you look at how I (and others) rewrite your contributions? Don't you learn from that? Don't you see what we remove all the time, what we keep and what we rewrite? --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 21:37, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
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Next time I would like FIRST to discuss these problems with me.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
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:I indicated your English was below par before. You make a mess, I clean it up. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 10:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
Why did you delete my editings on page Beorn's Hall?I am telling the truth about the filming of Beorn's Hall (where it was shot).You can check it.I am not lying. {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
<br />
Also, why did you delete my editings on talk page about Tauriel(I am talking about this page:[[Talk:Tauriel]])? This my opinion. OK? Can't I say my opinion about her fate now? This is just my opinion about her fate.OK? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}<br />
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:Didn't I explain enough? The English is too poor to be usable. It's not a fun thing for me to say to you, but if I don't, you'll never improve. --{{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
All these games that I added on Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment do exist.Why didn't you put these games on this page earlier? Before me no-one else had ever said about these games on Tolkien Gateway. You could have mentioned these games earlier on Tolkien Gateway, but you didn't.Why? {{unsignedanon|2.86.255.128}}</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Warner_Bros._Games&diff=291301Warner Bros. Games2017-01-09T03:07:51Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Games */</p>
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<div>'''Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment''' is a world-wide distributor and developer of video games. In [[2009]] it entered into a partnership with the [[Middle-earth Enterprises|Saul Zaentz Company]] and [[New Line Cinema]] (itself a subsidiary of [[Warner Bros.]]) to make video games based on both the ''The Lord of the Rings'' [[The Lord of the Rings|books]] and [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|films]] and [[The Hobbit (film series)|''The Hobbit'' films]].<br />
__NOTOC__<br />
==''The Lord of the Rings'' video games==<br />
After the [[wikipedia:Electronic Entertainment Expo|Electronic Entertainment Expo]] [[2009]], Martin Tremblay, President of Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, said:<br />
<br />
{{blockquote|The Lord of the Rings franchise is world renowned for its captivating adventures, and we are creating new experiences in the game space designed to appeal to a wide array of consumer tastes from core to casual. The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest is the first of many different types of games we will be developing with the film and literary rights. It is also the first game allowing kids and their families to interact in their favorite locations and stories from The Lord of the Rings with accessible gameplay.<ref name="IGN Announce">[http://www.ign.com IGN], "[http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/987/987602p1.html Warner Bros. Announces Lord of the Rings Game Franchise Partnership]", 28 May 2009 (accessed 27 September 2010)</ref>}}<br />
<br />
==Games==<br />
:'''[[2010]]''': ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest]]''<br />
:'''[[2010]]''': ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Middle-Earth Defense|The Lord of the Rings: Middle-earth Defense]]''<br />
:'''[[2011]]''': ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]''<br />
:'''[[2012]]''': ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''<br />
:'''[[2012]]''': ''[[Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game|Lego The Lord of the Rings]]''<br />
:'''[[2012]]''': ''[[The Hobbit: Kingdoms of Middle-earth]]''<br />
:'''[[2012]]''': ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - A Journey through Middle-earth|A Journey through Middle-earth]]''<br />
:'''[[2013]]''': ''[[The Hobbit: Armies of The Third Age]]''<br />
:'''[[2013]]''': ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Orc Attack|The Hobbit: Orc Attack]]''<br />
:'''[[2014]]''': ''[[Lego The Hobbit: The Video Game|Lego The Hobbit]]''<br />
:'''[[2014]]''': ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]''<br />
:'''[[2014]]''': ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Legends of Middle-earth]]''<br />
:'''[[2014]]''': ''[[Fight For Middle-earth]]''<br />
<br />
==External Links==<br />
* [http://www.wbie.com/index.html '''Official Website''']<br />
* {{WP|Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment}}<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:American businesses]]<br />
[[Category:Video Game developers]]<br />
[[Category:Video Game publishers]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sage&diff=291214User talk:Sage2017-01-06T21:51:01Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Wereworms */</p>
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<div>{{w|Hyarion|[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]]}}<br />
==Tale of Years==<br />
It's a known fact that the Tale of Years is full of mistakes, however, most of these were corrected in the [[The Lord of the Rings (50th Anniversary Edition)|50th anniversary edition]]. That should be included as well. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 04:54, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Standards==<br />
We should really include this in the welcome message, but just FYI: [[Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style]]. This is in reference to your use of "LotR" in [[Gildor|Gildor Inglorion]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:39, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Elves ==<br />
<br />
What published works say that elves are taller?<br />
<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 20:58, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:from the Appendices: <br />
*the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed<br />
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:Since the writer of the Appendices is a Man, and his readers are also Men, why would he describe the Eldar as tall and not as short?<br />
<br />
:Some characters, both Elves and Men are mentioned to be tall, and I understand these can be understood as 'relativistic'; for example you can say that the Eldar were tall relative to the other Elves, but still shorter than Men (although this explanation is quite tentative, and plausible only if you ''want'' to prove that Elves were shorter). I skimmed through the Silmarillion and saw that while the people of Marach are said to be tall, and while other men described as tall such as Galdor the Tall, most references were about Elves. <br />
:*Ingwë the High King, golden-haired and tall<br />
:*The seven sons of Fëanáro were Maedhros the tall...<br />
:*their sister was Ar-feiniel the White. She was younger in the years of the Eldar than her brothers; and when she was grown to full stature and beauty she was tall and strong<br />
:*[Thingol] tallest of all the Children of Ilúvatar<br />
:*But Eöl, though stooped by his smithwork, was no Dwarf, but a tall Elf of a high kin of the Teleri<br />
:*[Maeglin] was tall and black-haired; his eyes were dark<br />
<br />
:I don't argue that the assumption that more Elves than Men tended to be tall, can be proben by a statistical analysis. However if Elves are shorter, why Thingol was to be the tallest of all Elves and Men, and not some Man? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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Well, Tolkien stated that elves and men were at first "of a like size" (that is probably the best description in the whole legendarium for their size difference) in the BOLT2. If this is true, whether they became smaller in later ages or not, Thingol could easily be the tallest of all the Children of Iluvatar, but that doesn't mean that most elves were taller than men. Also, more elves are described as tall in the Silmarillion than men because the Silmarillion was almost all about elves, and the very few central character men that were in it were often described as tall, such as Tuor and Turin, as were many men of later ages, especially of Numenorian decent.<br />
<br />
While the elves may not be shorter than men in general, I do not think it can be said with certainty that they are taller. By the way, can we make a real talk page/forum for this?<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 17:48, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I am new here, I don't know the process so be my guest. But as a last note, I also remember in BOLT 1 that Elves are shorter, and I was shocked. Furthermore, I think I also read a comment that this idea was later dropped. Anyway I hope you are aware that the BOLT books take place in a different 'continuity' and shouldn't be considered as guides for the general canon. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 17:51, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Perhaps they shouldn't be considered canon, but from '''''Tolkien's Legendarium; Essays on The History of Middle-earth'''''; "...there are Tolkien's latest thoughts, his best thoughts, and his published thoughts and these are not necessarily the same."<br />
That is probably the wisest analysis that I have ever read about the world of Middle earth.<br />
[[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 18:31, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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<br />
==Amras==<br />
<br />
Hi and welcome to TG (I never "officially" got to greet you). [[Amras]] now. I know it is not much what you wrote, but please don't do it again in the future when you see that "claimed" tag. I am asking this of you as nice as I can and I can only hope that you'll understand it. I know you saw a mistake and wanted to correct it, but keep in mind that all the Sons will get rewritten by me to the last word in those articles, so all the errors will be fixed. It is just a matter of time. There are over 7000 articles here. I'm sure there's plenty of work for all of us. All the best! :) ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 05:24, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yes I know you are asking it nicely (I am not of those hot-tempered people who frown at each scolding :P) and I understand. But last time I asked I was told its usage was mainly to avoid edit conflicts and loss of data, therefore it's not always that ''bad'' to edit minimally those articles in the meantime (of course there is a problem with larger edits). So my edit was to make sure that you wouldn't miss that mistake and leave it there intact. Anyway I won't do this again (at least with your claimed articles :)). I trust you will do a good work. Namarie :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:41, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::My bad for that. I voiced my personal opinion. Like I said, guidelines are too grey. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 06:58, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::: Sage - It's a good thing at least one of us isn't from that kind of hot-tempered people :)) If you won't agree with something I'll write in future articles (for various reasons, like better knowledge of the text), feel free to drop me a message and corrections will be made, promise. Ederchil - There's no such thing as "my bad" here. :) Thank you both for understanding. ~~ [[User:Þelma|Þelma]] 13:52, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Dwarf names==<br />
A couple of things... there are several etymological theories about the Dwarf-names in the ''Dvergatal''. Therefore, I think it's important to state the source of the translation, and add others as well. Also, place Etymolgies above Genealogies, and use double ", not '. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 03:49, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Right away [[User:Sage|Sage]] 04:50, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::And maybe it's handy to mention the language as well, re: [[Arkenstone]]. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 10:20, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Meetings ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to [[Forum:Meetings|here]]. We are currently discussing the idea of a weekly site meeting. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:11, 7 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Individual Tengwar==<br />
Since you're listing the Westron names, you should really mention ''Report from Marquette'' by Jim Allan among the references. Even if you haven't read it. -- [[User:Ederchil|Ederchil]] 05:07, 15 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==References==<br />
Hiya. Just a note: <nowiki><ref> tags don't work unless you include a <references/> section at the end (or rather, a <small><references></small> section). </nowiki>-- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 08:02, 22 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==[[:Template:HM]]==<br />
Any thoughts? Other than "Expand to include LotR, S, H and UT" and "Add chapters"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 12:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Next Meeting ==<br />
<br />
It is planned that we hold our next meeting on the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 April 2009|5<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 April 2009|here]].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: Geia!==<br />
Geia sou kai esena! dystyxws den to exw to allo vivlio tou Tsouli alla to xw diavasei... o typos einai kamenos.<br />
<br />
Xairomai pou kai alloi ellhnares diavazoun Tolkien kai grafoun so Tolkien Gateway. Kai se eixa dei polles fores sto Recent changes kai den hxera oti eisai ellhnas... nomizw pws sou eixa grapsei ena talk page se kapoio athro sta agglika... [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 15:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Next Meeting==<br />
<br />
Sorry to clutter up your talk page, but just informing you about the next meeting. It is planned that we hold our next meeting on '''Monday''' the [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/13 April 2009|13<sup>th</sup> of April 2009]], please inform us if you can attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/13 April 2009|here]]. Remember that it's on Easter Monday, not Easter Sunday. Thanks!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 13:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Xristos Anesth==<br />
Xristos Anesth re patriwth! xronia polla![[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 08:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Multiple language words==<br />
Just a question how to deal with words that exist in multiple languages - [[Tur]], [[Tûr]], [[Aran]] for example. What layout do we use? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
==Orcs==<br />
Exw dei edw kai kairo oti psaxnete gia contributors stin selida twn Orcs. Loipon, ama psaxnete akomh endiaferomai egw na voithisw giati ta goustarw poly ta Orcs. Oti idees exeis pes mou. [[User:Mthomas|mthomas]] 14:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Tengwar==<br />
A lot of the tengwar pages require specific fonts, and people that don't have those fonts installed get gibberish. How about a template at the top, saying "for optimal reading, this page requires any of the following fonts"? -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 18:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==[[Common Eldarin|CE]] "3"==<br />
I see you use the 3 to represent the [[wikipedia:Yogh|yogh]]/ʒ. If you look at the edittools bar ("Insert:") at the bottom, you can see the actual symbol next to the dagger symbol. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 11:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Amrod]] (and [[Amras]]) ==<br />
<br />
You’re not wrong in what you added to the etymology of that name (although ''Ambaráto'' is the Telerin form, appropriate for Aegnor, whereas Amrod would of course have the Quenya form ''Ambarto''), but unfortunately it makes the messed up alignment of names that was already there even worse. Have a look at what I wrote on the Talk pages of both twins, and see if you can follow what I argue. Feel free to get back to me (or add to the Talk pages) when you got problems. But I think probably the time has come to untangle the mess and reorganise both articles (on the twins). I would be glad of your opinion on that. — [[User:Mithrennaith|Mithrennaith]] 04:40, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Upcoming Meeting ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering if you wanted to attend an upcoming meeting this Sunday. If you can make, please [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/27 June 2010|sign up]]. Thanks! --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 16:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Cirth/Angerthas ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage, I was wondering why you moved Angerthas Daeron, Angerthas Erebor and Angerthas Moria to [[Cirth/Angerthas Daeron]], [[Cirth/Angerthas Erebor]] and [[Cirth/Angerthas Moria]] respectively? It seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me (especially as no article links directly to these three), and I'm not sure what they mean as subtitles: are they meant to be subpages of [[Cirth]] or are you just indicating in the titles that "''cirth''" can be used as another name for "''angerthas''"? Would you object if I were to move them back to their original articles? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 15:22, 7 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==New words==<br />
Hi Sage! Sorry to trespass your linguistic ground by creating an article for ''[[Mae]]''. Since you have more experience on this field, do you have any thoughts on what I did on the page? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 16:31, 28 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Meeting - Sunday 5th September ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Sage! Just a quick message to inform you that we are holding our next [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings|Meeting]] on [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010|Sunday, 5<sup>th</sup> September 2010]] at 7pm [[wikipedia:UTC|UTC]]. Whether you are or aren't able to attend, please sign your name on the [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 September 2010|here]]. Hope to see you on Sunday! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 18:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Meeting - Sunday 3rd October ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage - do you reckon you'll be available for [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/3 October 2010|tomorrow's meeting]]? It would be good to see you there! --{{User:Mith/sig}} 20:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A Few Issues ==<br />
<br />
Just a few things I think you should know about:<br />
* This may seem trivial, but could you make sure that you end your sentences in a full-stop?<br />
* When quoting, you should indicate such with quotation marks, otherwise it is technically plagiarism.<br />
* With regards to references, [[Template:References]] has to be at the bottom of the article, or else they won't work (see [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Amon_Amarth&curid=1115&oldid=128927 this], for example).<br />
* Also re: referencing, could you make sure you include page numbers for all publications save for ''The Hobbit'', ''The Lord of the Rings'', ''The Silmarillion'' and ''The Unfinished Tales''; in particular, '' A Readers' Companion'' has only one pagination so there is no need to omit page numbers.<br />
**I am using a copy of ''Nomenclature'' that was handed to me before the Companion was published, so I can't know the pages. In any case I think it is not necessary, since the Nomenclature is arranged like a dictionary. If that's a problem, then I should reference simply "Nomenclature" instead. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* There's no need to remove interwiki links (unless they are incorrect).<br />
**You mean the links to other languages? That must be by accident, I didn't meddle with those. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Also, I really must ask that you don't move articles unless there is clear reason, and when you do, use the Move button at the top of the page, and don't copy and paste. The problem with copying and pasting is that it separates an article from its history and therefore obscures its development. Obviously, if the article is spelt incorrectly, is clearly under an under-used name, or uses our old verbose disambiguation system, you can move it without debate, but otherwise it's best to just do a quick message on the talk page (and if no one replies assume it's safe to proceed).<br />
**I try to separate English-named articles from Elvish-named articles. My personal rule of thumb is that the main article is under the English name; the Elvish articles have a link to the main article, and linguistic/etymological notes. When I see e.g. both Silvertine and Zirakzigil redirect to Celebdil, the best thing I can do is replace the redirects with actual content, and copy the bulk of the text to the one that fits most; I can't put an explanation of "tine" in the article for Celebdil, and I can't create an article for Silvertine only to put this explanation. The 'Move' action was unavailable because the target was occupied by the redirects. I understand that copying instead of moving must cause such issues, but while in the fever of adding etymologies and encountering these obstacles, I confess that the issues you mentioned seemed trivial at that moment *blush* [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Disambiguation pages should only include the actual articles which require disambiguating - etymological information (other than a brief description in the opening line) should be seeded into the individual articles.<br />
**I fail to understand the reason. Why should the etymology of the name "Hurin" be copied to the five articles of the five individuals called Hurin and not in the single disambiguation page? In similar cases I'd write the full etymology in the disambig page and in the individual articles put a "See Hurin (disambiguation)" link under "Etymology". It seems cleaner and tidier that way. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 00:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
* Re: categorisation. There is no point categorising articles in categories which don't exist; it does nothing and just puts a redlink at the bottom of the page. Creation categories (and categorising them), is exactly the same as creation (and categorising) articles. (See [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Oathbreakers&oldid=128044 this] for the redlink.)<br />
None of the above is meant in vitriol, rudeness, admonition or patronisation: it's just a few pointers to make sure that TG conforms to the very highest standards to be something we can all be proud of. Do keep up the work, here - you are a ''very'' valued contributor. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 17:08, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Also, be sure to follow the advice given {{Redlink|[[Portal:Locations/Category tree|here]]}} on the Locations category structure. It seems a lot of editors don't understand the structure I put in place, that page should go some way in explaining what to do (if unsure, just ask me :) ). --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 17:56, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== File:Beleriand-eriador-fonstad.png ==<br />
[[File:Steven White Jr. - ME FA 02.gif|thumb|right|150px]]<br />
Hi there. Can you please tell me whose maps you used to create the compound map? The basic Beleriand map is obviously the one derived by me (with the cut-outs where the forst labels are in CT's original map) when I first attempted to join CT's maps at Mount Himring. See an earlier sketch of said map on the right. I wonder how that ended up on the web at all...<br />
[[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 23:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi there. I made this composition some years ago, using elements from various maps I had found online. My purpose was to portray a "sunken" Beleriand with the 3rd Age outline of Lindon, and Fonstad's North. It seems that I used your composite map as a base (yes, the one where you have Himring marked in red). When I edited the map recently in order to upload it, I had a [[Wikipedia:false memory|false memory]] that my base had been Fonstad's Arda map, including the shores and outlines; but now that you made me check again, I saw that the southern shoreline as she envisioned it, differs greatly from this one. It turns out that the greater part of this map is your work. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 01:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You mean the one on the right? Where did you find that? The file is almost 10 years old and I had forgotten about it. I later adjusted the southern coastline, as can be seen on the map in my user page. Those were the days before Photoshop :-) Maybe I should get into the mapmaking business again. My clash with the Tolkien Estate is 6 years back, after all. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 07:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I had a newer version of that map of yours, part of a big collection of fan-made maps I had downloaded from fansites. I think this one was on Tolkienion.com? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Ah, that may be. I had to remove the maps section of the Tolkienion when I got in trouble over the maps. However, the maps still exist [http://7a6972656f5f74637568.killerhor.net/index2.php?framesource=indexframe.php here]. But the map you used is not there. I have lost a couple of maps when I had a hard drive failure a few years back. [[User:Smeagol|Smeagol]] 13:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Elvish roots/stems==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. I have a question about how to interpret a specific form often occurring in the ''Etymologies''. For example, for the base AK-, the form *''akrā'' appears, after which follows the Quenya and Noldorin forms. Now, my question is: what is the form *''akrā'' supposed to signify? Primitive Quendian? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 13:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for the quick answer (for other editors, see [[User talk:Morgan#Roots]])! I hope you don't mind that I have some related questions (I suggest that you answer here, since that makes it easier to follow the conversation):<br />
#Which form should we use as title for these articles? ÁLAT- or just ÁLAT? I've noticed that earlier root articles omit the hyphen. Is this intentional? I started to include the hyphens in the articles I just created, since this is how they appear in the ''Etymologies''.<br />
**I guess the hyphens indicate that the roots are not complete words. Since this is one of the definitions of a root, and '''all''' roots have one, I consider trivial such an indication. If you look at Ardalambion or linguistic discussions in the mailing lists, there is no hyphen. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#How should we think about the e/ë question in Quenya words? Should the name of the article be, for example, aiwe or aiwë?<br />
**I am against using the diaereses for several reasons, but I think the TG prefers to include them. A couple of Quenya articles I wrote were renamed by some other editor. In any case, I never use them :D [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***According to Fauskanger, "''Tolkien often uses the diaeresis (two dots as in Manwë) to clarify the pronunciation of Elvish names for readers of English, but it is hardly ever used in the Etymologies, a work that was never intended for wider circulation.''" ([http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/index/indexs.htm]). Perhaps this is a good reason to actually use the diaereses? Or is it possible for you to explain the reasons against using them? I just noticed the issue in the article on ''[[yáve]]''. I found out that the spelling ''yávë'' is used in ''The Silmarillion'' (appendix) - isn't then this the more "proper" (canonical?) spelling? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
#A general linguistic remark: right now, the standard on TG is to use the past tense in article text which is "inside" the legendarium. However, in linguistic texts (such as etymology sections and "dictionary" articles on specific words) we always use the present tense. Is there a reason behind these different uses? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 14:51, 27 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
**I see that languages, as abstract entities, are outside of time. Once a language exists, its vocabulary and rules will always "exist", even if the language itself is dead or ancient. For example everyone says "Amor in Latin means love" rather than "meant". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
***Good point. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Dots===<br />
The dots signify nothing to Quenya itself. Tolkien in his personal writings (and the Elves) did not use dots. Its quite different from the accents which '''are''' significant to the language and denote a long vowel; yave and yáve would be two different words, with different pronunciation, and different Tengwar spelling.<br><br />
On the contrary, the dots don't exist in the language and are of course not represented in tengwar. Tolkien invented them for the published books only to visually assist the occasional English readers to remember that ''e'' is pronounced. In fact, all ''e''s in Quenya are pronounced but the English (or French, who also has silent ''e''s) reader perhaps needs such a reminder. yáve and yávë are not different spellings, they are exactly the same thing, only that yávë is perhaps more visually helpful for the English (or the French).<br><br />
The reason '''not''' to use the dots, besides being not a part of the language, is that it's quite more complicated to write and search in the wiki for ''yávë'' than ''yáve''.<br><br />
And if I may mention, in Albanian ''ë'' signifies a silent ''e'', so it would have the contrary effect to an Albanian reader :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am personally in favour of the diaereses: this is an English-language website aimed at those who know English - diaereses have a clear meaning in English which I think it is important to maintain. Furthermore, should we be over-ruling the Professor's use of diaereses? <br />
<br />
:The problem of typing/searching can be solved by redirects. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:31, 2 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree with Mith, I think we should use Yávë, with Yáve as redirects. --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]]<br />
::I'd argue that the Professor used the diaereses with publication in mind, not as a rule-not-to-be-over-ruled; or else such forms would be seen in HoMe. It would be interested to bring the matter up in the forum, what do you say? [[User:Sage|Sage]] 20:03, 4 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I don't know if a publication post-mortem can really be conclusive evidence either way of the professor's intentions. However, as you point out, the Professor included diaereses with publication in mind and he never had HOME in mind for publication (and if he did we can't know that he wouldn't have gone through adding diaereses). I think it's a moot point, really. <br />
:::Furthermore, is it not confusing to readers not so well-versed in Tolkienian linguistics to encounter words lacking diaereses where they think they should see them? (I notice, for instance, that many scholars retain diaereses where Tolkien uses them.)<br />
:::I know it can be hard for non-native speakers of English to understand, but the diaereses really is a valuable tool in aiding pronunciation amongst native speakers (remember Cate Blanchett's "''The light of Erendil''"!), and, contrary to popular belief amongst some (non-native speakers) scholars, it is understand by many: words such as coöperate, continuüm, reëlect, zoölogy and naïve as well as names like Chloë, Zaïre, Boötes, and the Brontë Sisters. Notwithstanding the above, I would still support the use of diaereses as a distinguishing feature of unusualness: in English, any form of diacritic signifies "''I am a foreign word.''" - it creates an aura of intrigue and mystery which I wouldn't wish to lose.<br />
:::It would be good if you could attend [[Tolkien Gateway talk:Meetings/5 December 2010|the meeting today]], I've added this issue on the list of things to discuss. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 01:44, 5 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Elvish/PQ==<br />
Hi Sage! I just wanted to draw your attention to this question of mine: [[Talk:ÁS-AT]] --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 19:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Second Age Globe ==<br />
<br />
As you pointed out, I completely forgot that Arda wasn't made round until the end of the Second Age. I really like the images you put together for the First Age and Third Age globes as I used in my [[User:KingAragorn/Sandbox|sandbox]] for the location portal. Would it be possible for you to create a Second Age globe in the same style? --{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Boromir and Beornings==<br />
Hello Sage! Just drawing you attention to [[Talk:Boromir#Etymology]] and [[Talk:Beornings]], where I discuss your edits.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 01:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Use of asterisk==<br />
I noted that you use both single and double asterisks in the article on [[Valaraukar]]. I think the use needs to be explained, either by making the asterisks into links (as was my initial idea), or, as can be seen here [[Talk:*]], where [[User:Mith]] is of the opinion that we should avoid the use of asterisk altogether. --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 15:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am not sure on what you want me to comment [[User:Sage|Sage]] 09:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::What does the double asterisk (**) signify? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The double asterisk is explained in [[asterisk]] :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:00, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Oh, thank you! :) Then I'll go ahead and make internal links for the asterisks (at least for the time being - since there is a debate on wether we should use asterisks or not). (BTW, don't you find it more convenient to keep a conversation to one talk page? It tends to get confusing having to switch between talk pages when following a conversation.) /Cheers --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Taniquetil ==<br />
<br />
Hi Sage! On this article I removed the redlinks as I find redlinks ugly whilst showing to the reader where our holes are (and giving false hope that those articles may exist); I personally think redlinks shouldn't be created unless you expect to create the article ''yourself'' or have a realistic expectation that someone else will do so soon. Are you intending on creating articles for ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 11:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, personally I don't think redlinks ugly and I consider them only 'work to be done in the future'. For example, if someone ever will create an article for "nique", he will have to manually trace every page containing the word and wikify it. I believe redlinks can be useful by the "Wanted Pages" of the "What links here" features. But I respect the different aesthetics about the wiki. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:02, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I accept that - and indeed agree - so long as it ''is'' "work to be done in the future" and not just "work someone else ''might'' do at some point"; if an article never gets created the redlink serves no useful function. We have 6690 wanted pages (of which a good chunk are linguistic ones) - a figure which is increasing and not decreasing - so the work isn't really getting done; in the meeting last September I argued, "''let's be honest, they probably aren't all articles waiting to happen''".<br />
::The problem is especially true for linguistic articles because it's such a specialised area there are very few people who know enough to edit those articles and even fewer who are happy to do so, therefore you can't ever realistically expect anyone to ever create those articles. Are you planning on creating links to ''TĀ'', ''nique'' and ''til''? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:23, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Well I will have in mind to complete immediately the articles I wikify from now on. I will try to work on complete trees and their related pages when possible. Don't worry about that. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:46, 22 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==PQ/PE==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage! I need help on the following: should "Proto-Eldarin" be redirected to Primitive Quendian or Common Eldarin? Or do you think Proto-Eldarin have its own article ([http://reocities.com/athens/parthenon/9902/langlst.html Lisa Star] says that it sometimes seem to refer to PQ and sometimes to CE)? I've tried (without success) to find this term in Tolkien's writings.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Obviously Proto-Eldarin is not an attested form, but a term originating before Tolkien's writings about Primitive Quendian were published, and before any details about the Eldar vs Avari were known. I think it is safe to redirect it to Common Eldarin. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 12:37, 6 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Etymology of ''Sauron''==<br />
Sage, do you have ideas/comments on how we should present the etymology of the name ''Sauron'' on Tolkien Gateway? Having investigated it a bit, a complete version is [[User:Morgan/Sandbox6|more complicated]] than what I think could be presented on a general wiki article. As I understand it, Tolkien struggled with deriving ''Sauron'' either from Sindarin ''thaur'' (PE:17, p. 183; EQS), or giving the name a Quenya derivation (''saura'' "cruel") ultimately deriving from a base THAW (PE:17, p. 184; Letter 297). --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
:We can mention both derivations from ''saura'' and ''thaur''. It seems like it is needed an entry on the word ''[[saura]]'' which seems to have suffered most under Tolkien's revisions, and provide them in its article. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks - I've added the info to our Sauron etymology section.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 02:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Letter 427==<br />
Hi Sage, I just saw you added {{redlink|[[Letter 427]]}} as a reference to [[-nguo]]. This letter does however not exist, could you look into this and add the correct letter? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 14:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Legendary locations==<br />
Ah! I had forgotten about the Last Desert - it's a good addition to the template. I'm sure there are some others I haven't thought about.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 17:14, 30 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Images ==<br />
<br />
Hello Sage. As you probably know, I've been sorting out images on TG and making sure that they all have the proper file licensing templates. I'm sure that you will agree that this is a mammoth task; therefore I would like to ask for your help sorting out the images that you've uploaded. Please see below for a list of files that need sorting and/or checking.<br />
<br />
You noted on these images that they were public domain, so I've put a PD template on them. However, we need to know the author's name so that they can be categorised and named properly.<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Rumil2.gif.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Elemm.gif]]}}<br />
:The author made those as spontaneous doodles. He is not a professional and doesn't pursue any credit, and as far as I know he wouldn't like to have his name published online either. I wonder if we can support the option to name some files as "Anonymous" [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Please check these maps and decide whether you, [[Karen Wynn Fonstad]] (her estate or publisher, I don't know), or someone else owns the copyright. You'll notice that on some I've guessed and put on a file licensing template, but please check them.<br />
:The maps I have marked with an asterisk are derivatives of (usually) Fonstad's works, therefore I don't have the authority to grant any permission to publish them under any term. I think that we should track Fonstad's copyright holders. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Almaren.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Evolution of Arda.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Reunited Kingdom.png]]<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Middle-earth.jpg]]*<br />
*[[:File:1050.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1105.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1115.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1125.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1132.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1149.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1150.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1200.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1300.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1350.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1498.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:1129.png]]*<br />
*{{redlink|File:Belfalas 2nd Age.jpg}} (NB: I tried to contact [[Andreas Möhn]] but his e-mail bounced)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Beleriand and Eriador collage.png]] <br />
:this is a collage of maps by Fonstad, Raw and User:Smeagol [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Location of Numenor.png]]*<br />
*[[:File:Sage - Great Plague.png]]<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Pan-route.png]]}}*<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Overhill-route.png]]}}*<br />
*[[:File:Pauline Baynes - The Little Kingdom.jpg]]<br />
:this is a map by Pauline Baynes, therefore it should take the template that other Baynes' images do. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I've put an unknown copyright status on these miscellaneous images. Please identify the copyright holder and conact them for permission. If you want me to contact them, just ask.<br />
:I do believe that it would be better if you include these in your existing work. You have better experience in this and you will do quicker and better than if we shared the work. However I will put notes to help you [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:PP banner.jpg]]<br />
:this is a derivative of collective work by members of the GTS. You can contact them from their Facebook page. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Michael Gaydos - TolkienWilliamsLewis.jpg]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Daniel reeve.jpg]]}}<br />
:the picture was taken from a package of maps by Decipher. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwafrune.gif}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dwarfrunes.JPEG}}<br />
*{{redlink|File:Dansmith.png}}<br />
:these pictures were taken by Dan Smith's font site. FYI I contacted him once but he didn't reply [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*[[:File:Mani and Sol.jpg]]<br />
:I took the image from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M%C3%A1ni_and_S%C3%B3l_by_Lorenz_Fr%C3%B8lich.jpg here]. It belongs in the PD. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Alex lewis.jpg]]}}<br />
:this picture was taken by members of the GTS at Oxonmoot (I think 2002). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Idril.gif]]}}<br />
:I will try to contact MB and ask him if we can use his heraldry here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Steve Notley - Bob the Angry Flower's Lord of the Ringz.gif]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Gift.jpg]]}}<br />
:This was made by the Hildebrandts [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
*{{redlink|[[File:Brothers Hildebrandt - Return of the King.jpg]]}} (NB: I will try to contact Greg Hildebrandt)<br />
*{{Redlink|[[File:Cave.jpg]]}}<br />
:Made by Wenzel, however I don't know what's the copyright and if he gave permission for this [[User:Sage|Sage]] 13:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Many thanks for your help!--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 10:50, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thanks for the info. I shall grow through them at some point.--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Buckland==<br />
See [[Talk:Buckland]]. In no primary source does it talk about Buckland becoming part of the Shire (it does for the Westmarch, however). Indeed "Eastmarch" is not mentioned, but "East March" is (only once).--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 18:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Category:Greco-Romance names ==<br />
<br />
Hey Sage. [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012|At the meeting just gone]] we discussed your [[:Category:Greco-Roman names|Category:Greco-Romance names]]. You may have noticed that I moved it (because I thought that you have made a spelling mistake). You can read the discussion [[Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 August 2012/Transcript|here]]. As you can see, we decided that it would be best to diffuse the category into "Romanic names" and "Ancient Greek names". Are you happy with this? If so, could you sort it out?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Please have a look at [[Category talk:Greco-Roman names]] [[User:Sage|Sage]] 23:49, 5 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Westlands==<br />
I just noticed that your reference in [[Westlands]] didn't work as the parameter "X1" doesn't exist in [[Template:SD]]. I've changed it to "XI" (Epilogue). Was this correct or did you use another chapter as source? --[[User:Amroth|Amroth]] 16:39, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Oops! yes, that's correct :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 19:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Alatar and Pallando==<br />
<br />
Sage, do you know of any good linguistic analysis of the names ''Alatar'' and ''Pallando''? I made a quick search, but couldn't find any -- surely it must have been discussed in VT or PE? --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 20:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:No, other than the lotr.wikia.com speculates that Pallando is related to palan/palla [[User:Sage|Sage]] 06:54, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::{{UT|Istari}}, Note 6 says: "''Pallando'', despite the spelling, perhaps contains ''palan'' 'afar', as in ''palantír'' and in ''Palarran'' 'Far Wanderer', the name of Aldarion's ship." This is C.R.T.'s speculation for Pallando, could we speculate Alatar's etymology? Or should we just say that it's unknown?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 11:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Yes we could. There is ''alata'' "great", ''al(a)-'' "blessed" with ''atar'' "father" or ''tar'' "high one" and so on. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Right. Just to make a note of it, Encylopedia of Arda also suggests that ''Alatar'' can be interpreted as "after-comer" [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/alatar.html].--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 21:43, 13 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Category:Angicised Westron words ==<br />
<br />
Are you going to make ''[[Special:WantedCategories|Category:Angicised Westron words]]''?--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 19:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Maps==<br />
Who made these maps?<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:At the crossroads map.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Over hill.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Short Rest.png]]}}<br />
*{{redlink|[[Media:Roast Mutton.png]]}}--{{User:KingAragorn/sig}} 23:32, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:They are croppings from [[:File:Mith01.jpg|this map]] but since they would take the unknown-copyright tag anyway, I didn't bother to add more information for that moment. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 08:35, 3 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lenition/Mutation==<br />
Hello Sage! I noticed that we have no separate page for mutation in Sindarin (like we have for [[lenition]]). Do you reckon such a page could be useful, or do you know if we have any other article to which mutation can be redirected? Thanks --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 18:23, 12 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==The "Hobbit" week==<br />
Sage, do you have any thoughts about this: can the "archaic" names of the days of the week be said to be Westron, and the later names to be Hobbitish (Kuduk)? I'm just thinking of how to categorize the names according to language.--[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 23:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The names ''Monendei'' and so are Middle English and can be considered "Middle Westron" according to [https://sites.google.com/site/endorenya/language-periodizations this project]. The modern day names ''Monday'' etc can be considered regular developments in "modern" Westron, but I don't think we can tell how much they are proper, or Hobbitish Westron. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:34, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:For example, I am not sure if "Trewsday" was the name also used by the Rangers, Gondorians, Gandalf, etc, or whether they would say *"Treesday". [[User:Sage|Sage]] 14:37, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Wintring==<br />
Thanks for correcting my silly edit at the Wintring article, Sage! :-) --[[User:Morgan|Morgan]] 21:41, 18 November 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bain pic ==<br />
<br />
Since there don't seem to be any other images of Bain on the site (yet), is there really any harm in keeping the shot from "The Desolation of Smaug" as his 'profile pic,' so to speak? --[[User:BalrogTrainer|BalrogTrainer]] 03:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:According to my own personal understanding I wouldn't use it as a main picture of a canonical article, but other than that there isn't any harm keeping it as a profile pic :) [[User:Sage|Sage]] 05:57, 24 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Articles needed citations ==<br />
<br />
I don't know if you've ever looked through [[:Category:Articles needing citation|Articles needing citation]], but it contains 246 articles to which the <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> template has been applied. For the majority of these it appears to be on etymologies; with this is mind, I was wondering whether you (perhaps with [[User:Morgan]]'s help?) might be willing to go through these articles and either add sources or remove/amend the articles as appropriate? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 19:52, 11 November 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wereworms ==<br />
<br />
There is no image with the wereworms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in tolkien gateway at all.Someone should upload at least an image on tolkien gateway with the wereworms as they appeared in the third Hobbit film.What do you think?<br />
<br />
:Good idea! Go on, as I don't have any pictures from that film. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:00, 1 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As i have said, there is no image with the were-worms as they appeared in [[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]] in Tolkien Gateway.Can you upload at least an image on Tolkien Gateway with the were-worms as they appeared on the third Hobbit film? You can find on Internet.I don't have the ability to upload images on Tolkien Gateway generally, but you do have this ability.<br />
<br />
:I haven't even watched the film. Find me an image and I will consider it. Also, consider creating an account here. [[User:Sage|Sage]] 21:13, 6 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yes.I already found not only one, but two images:[http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BotFAWereWorms01.jpg this one] and [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/8/85/BOTFA_Wereworm.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150306211236 this one].What do you think? Are these images good or not?<br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
<br />
I would like to be discussed something generally.Read [[User talk:2.86.255.128#Tolkien Gateway and The Hobbit film|here]].<br />
This place, Trollshaws,appears in the First Hobbit film.You can check it by seeing the movie.I am telling that because [[User:Ederchil]] removes my editing about the Trollshaws in which i say that Trollshaws do appear in the First Hobbit film.You can see it [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&action=history here] or [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Trollshaws&oldid=291125 here]. {{unsignedanon| 2.86.255.128}}<br />
:Please check the others's replies to you, their comments and the edits they do to your edits. The administrators's obligations do NOT include discussing and explaining again ana again their points and correcting the grammar and spelling of our edits. Ederchil said he did this for most of your edits but that can't go on for ever; from a point they will start just reverting your edits, and if you insist, they will block you. As for your edit on Trollshaws, you don't add any useful information (just appearing as in the book isn't something worth to be mentioned) and also you have a grammar mistake, as in almost all of your edits (should be "its role" instead of "'''it's''' role"). [[User:Sage|Sage]] 10:21, 6 January 2017 (UTC)</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Warner_Bros._Games&diff=291212Warner Bros. Games2017-01-06T21:06:07Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Games */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment''' is a world-wide distributor and developer of video games. In [[2009]] it entered into a partnership with the [[Middle-earth Enterprises|Saul Zaentz Company]] and [[New Line Cinema]] (itself a subsidiary of [[Warner Bros.]]) to make video games based on both the ''The Lord of the Rings'' [[The Lord of the Rings|books]] and [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|films]] and ''The Hobbit'' [[The Lord of the Rings|book]] and [[The Hobbit (film series)|film]].<br />
__NOTOC__<br />
==''The Lord of the Rings'' video games==<br />
After the [[wikipedia:Electronic Entertainment Expo|Electronic Entertainment Expo]] [[2009]], Martin Tremblay, President of Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, said:<br />
<br />
{{blockquote|The Lord of the Rings franchise is world renowned for its captivating adventures, and we are creating new experiences in the game space designed to appeal to a wide array of consumer tastes from core to casual. The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest is the first of many different types of games we will be developing with the film and literary rights. It is also the first game allowing kids and their families to interact in their favorite locations and stories from The Lord of the Rings with accessible gameplay.<ref name="IGN Announce">[http://www.ign.com IGN], "[http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/987/987602p1.html Warner Bros. Announces Lord of the Rings Game Franchise Partnership]", 28 May 2009 (accessed 27 September 2010)</ref>}}<br />
<br />
==Games==<br />
:'''[[2010]]''': ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest]]''<br />
:'''[[2010]]''': ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Middle-Earth Defense|The Lord of the Rings: Middle-earth Defense]]''<br />
:'''[[2011]]''': ''[[The Lord of the Rings: War in the North]]''<br />
:'''[[2012]]''': ''[[Guardians of Middle-earth]]''<br />
:'''[[2012]]''': ''[[Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game|Lego The Lord of the Rings]]''<br />
:'''[[2012]]''': ''[[The Hobbit: Kingdoms of Middle-earth]]''<br />
:'''[[2012]]''': ''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - A Journey through Middle-earth]]''<br />
:'''[[2013]]''': ''[[The Hobbit: Armies of The Third Age]]''<br />
:'''[[2013]]''': ''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Orc Attack]]''<br />
:'''[[2014]]''': ''[[Lego The Hobbit: The Video Game|Lego The Hobbit]]''<br />
:'''[[2014]]''': ''[[Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor]]''<br />
:'''[[2014]]''': ''[[The Lord of the Rings: Legends of Middle-earth]]''<br />
:'''[[2014]]''': ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Fight For Middle-earth]]''<br />
<br />
==External Links==<br />
* [http://www.wbie.com/index.html '''Official Website''']<br />
* {{WP|Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment}}<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:American businesses]]<br />
[[Category:Video Game developers]]<br />
[[Category:Video Game publishers]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Lego_The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_The_Video_Game&diff=291211Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game2017-01-06T21:01:48Z<p>2.86.255.128: /* Trailer */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{currentevent}}{{expansion}}{{video game infobox<br />
| image=[[File:Lego The Lord of the Rings - The Video Game.png|250px]]<br />
| name=Lego The Lord of the Rings: the Video Game<br />
| developer=<br />
| publisher=<br />
| platform=[[wikipedia:PlayStation 3|PlayStation3]], [[wikipedia:Xbox 360|Xbox 360]], [[wikipedia:Nintendo Wii|Nintendo Wii]], [[wikipedia:Nintendo DS|Nintendo DS]], [[wikipedia:Nintendo 3DS|Nintendo 3DS]], [[wikipedia:PlayStation Vita|PlayStation Vita]], [[wikipedia:Microsoft Windows|Microsoft Windows]]<ref name="FB-info">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/LEGOTheLordoftheRingsVideogame/info|articlename=Lego The Lord of the Rings|dated=|website=FB|accessed=29 July}}</ref><br />
| releasedate=13 November 2012<ref name="FB-info"/><br />
| genre=Action-adventure<br />
| modes=<br />
| rating=<br />
| distribution=<br />
}}<br />
'''Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game''' is a video game by [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]] and Traveler's Tales. The game is based on [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]] and was released in 13 November 2012.<ref>{{webcite|author=Marlin Votta|articleurl=http://www.inentertainment.co.uk/20120710/official-lego-the-lord-of-the-rings-facebook-page/|Official LEGO The Lord Of The Rings Facebook page|dated=10 July 2012|website=[http://www.lego.com/ LEGO]|accessed=16 July 2012}}</ref> It features the story lines of [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|The Fellowship of the Ring]], [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]] and [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]] but "reimagined with the humor and endless variety of LEGO play".<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://toysnbricks.com/lego-lord-of-the-rings-video-game-2012/|articlename=LEGO Lord of the Rings Video Game 2012|dated=4 June 2012|website=http://toysnbricks.com|accessed=29 July 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Trailer==<br />
<div style="overflow:hidden;"><br />
<div style="border:1px solid #CCCCCC;padding:14px;background:#F8F8F8;margin:0px 14px 14px 0px;display:inline-block;">{{#ev:youtube|CufnDIbqDRA}}</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[Lego]]<br />
*[[Lego The Hobbit: The Video Game]]<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*{{WP|Lego The Lord of the Rings (video game)}}<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
<!---<br />
http://toysnbricks.com/lego-lord-of-the-rings-video-game-2012/<br />
http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/video-games/lego-lord-of-the-rings-to-be-released-this-october/10400<br />
http://www.inentertainment.co.uk/20120710/official-lego-the-lord-of-the-rings-facebook-page/<br />
http://thelordoftherings.lego.com/en-us/Videogame/Default.aspx<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxuGSFYm1ls<br />
https://www.facebook.com/LEGOTheLordoftheRingsVideogame/info<br />
--><br />
<br />
{{Videogames}}<br />
{{title|italics}}<br />
[[Category:Action games]]<br />
[[Category:Adventure games]]<br />
[[Category:Lego games]]<br />
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]<br />
[[Category:Nintendo DS games]]<br />
[[Category:Nintendo 3DS games]]<br />
[[Category:Open world games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 3 games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation Vita games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Lego_The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_The_Video_Game&diff=291210Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game2017-01-06T21:00:55Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{currentevent}}{{expansion}}{{video game infobox<br />
| image=[[File:Lego The Lord of the Rings - The Video Game.png|250px]]<br />
| name=Lego The Lord of the Rings: the Video Game<br />
| developer=<br />
| publisher=<br />
| platform=[[wikipedia:PlayStation 3|PlayStation3]], [[wikipedia:Xbox 360|Xbox 360]], [[wikipedia:Nintendo Wii|Nintendo Wii]], [[wikipedia:Nintendo DS|Nintendo DS]], [[wikipedia:Nintendo 3DS|Nintendo 3DS]], [[wikipedia:PlayStation Vita|PlayStation Vita]], [[wikipedia:Microsoft Windows|Microsoft Windows]]<ref name="FB-info">{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://www.facebook.com/LEGOTheLordoftheRingsVideogame/info|articlename=Lego The Lord of the Rings|dated=|website=FB|accessed=29 July}}</ref><br />
| releasedate=13 November 2012<ref name="FB-info"/><br />
| genre=Action-adventure<br />
| modes=<br />
| rating=<br />
| distribution=<br />
}}<br />
'''Lego The Lord of the Rings: The Video Game''' is a video game by [[Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment]] and Traveler's Tales. The game is based on [[The Lord of the Rings (film series)|''The Lord of the Rings'' (film series)]] and was released in 13 November 2012.<ref>{{webcite|author=Marlin Votta|articleurl=http://www.inentertainment.co.uk/20120710/official-lego-the-lord-of-the-rings-facebook-page/|Official LEGO The Lord Of The Rings Facebook page|dated=10 July 2012|website=[http://www.lego.com/ LEGO]|accessed=16 July 2012}}</ref> It features the story lines of [[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring|The Fellowship of the Ring]], [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers|The Two Towers]] and [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King|The Return of the King]] but "reimagined with the humor and endless variety of LEGO play".<ref>{{webcite|author=|articleurl=http://toysnbricks.com/lego-lord-of-the-rings-video-game-2012/|articlename=LEGO Lord of the Rings Video Game 2012|dated=4 June 2012|website=http://toysnbricks.com|accessed=29 July 2012}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Trailer==<br />
<div style="overflow:hidden;"><br />
<div style="border:1px solid #CCCCCC;padding:14px;background:#F8F8F8;margin:0px 14px 14px 0px;display:inline-block;">{{#ev:youtube|CufnDIbqDRA}}</div><br />
</div><br />
<br />
==See also<br />
*[[Lego]]==<br />
*[[Lego The Hobbit: The Video Game]]<br />
<br />
==External links<br />
*{{WP|Lego The Lord of the Rings (video game)}}==<br />
<br />
{{references}}<br />
<br />
<!---<br />
http://toysnbricks.com/lego-lord-of-the-rings-video-game-2012/<br />
http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/video-games/lego-lord-of-the-rings-to-be-released-this-october/10400<br />
http://www.inentertainment.co.uk/20120710/official-lego-the-lord-of-the-rings-facebook-page/<br />
http://thelordoftherings.lego.com/en-us/Videogame/Default.aspx<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxuGSFYm1ls<br />
https://www.facebook.com/LEGOTheLordoftheRingsVideogame/info<br />
--><br />
<br />
{{Videogames}}<br />
{{title|italics}}<br />
[[Category:Action games]]<br />
[[Category:Adventure games]]<br />
[[Category:Lego games]]<br />
[[Category:Microsoft Windows games]]<br />
[[Category:Nintendo DS games]]<br />
[[Category:Nintendo 3DS games]]<br />
[[Category:Open world games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation 3 games]]<br />
[[Category:PlayStation Vita games]]<br />
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Hobbit:_The_Battle_of_the_Five_Armies_-_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack_-_Special_Edition&diff=291209The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition2017-01-06T20:47:39Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-more|Battle of Five Armies|[[Battle of Five Armies (disambiguation)]]}}{{album<br />
| image=[[File:The Hobbit - The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition.jpg|250px]]<br />
| title=''The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition''<br />
| type=Soundtrack<br />
| artist=[[Howard Shore]]<br />
| released=[[9 December]], [[2014]]<br />
| recorded=<br />
| genre=<br />
| length=<br />
| language=English<br />
| label=[[Wikipedia:WaterTower Music|WaterTower Music]]<br />
}}<br />
'''''The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition''''' is a special edition album comprising of the soundtrack from ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]'', by [[Howard Shore]]. It was released digitally and on CD on [[9 December]] [[2014]].<br />
<br />
==Contents==<br />
===Disc 1===<br />
# [[Fire and Water (soundtrack)|Fire and Water]]<br />
# [[Shores of the Long Lake]]<br />
# [[Beyond Sorrow and Grief]] (Extended Version)<br />
# [[Guardians of the Three]] (Extended Version)<br />
# [[The Ruins of Dale]]<br />
# [[The Gathering of the Clouds (soundtrack)|The Gathering of the Clouds]] (Extended Version)<br />
# [[Mithril (soundtrack)|Mithril]]<br />
# [[Bred for War]]<br />
# [[A Thief in the Night (soundtrack)|A Thief in the Night]]<br />
# [[The Clouds Burst (soundtrack)|The Clouds Burst]]<br />
# [[Battle for the Mountain]]<br />
<br />
===Disc 2===<br />
# [[The Darkest Hour]]<br />
# [[Sons of Durin]]<br />
# [[The Fallen]]<br />
# [[Ravenhill (soundtrack)|Ravenhill]]<br />
# [[To the Death]] (Extended Version)<br />
# [[Courage and Wisdom]]<br />
# [[The Return Journey (soundtrack)|The Return Journey]]<br />
# [[There and Back Again (soundtrack)|There and Back Again]]<br />
# [[The Last Goodbye]] - performed by [[Billy Boyd]]<br />
# [[Ironfoot (soundtrack)|Ironfoot]] (Extended Version)<br />
# [[Dragon Sickness]] (Bonus Track)<br />
# [[Thráin (soundtrack)|Thráin]] (Bonus Track)<br />
<br />
=See also=<br />
*[[:Category:The Hobbit: The Motion Picture Trilogy Original Soundtracks|''The Hobbit: The Motion Picture Trilogy'' - Original Soundtracks]]<br />
**''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack|An Unexpected Journey]]''<br />
**''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack|The Desolation of Smaug]]''<br />
**''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack|The Battle of the Five Armies]]''<br />
*[[:Category:The Hobbit: The Motion Picture Trilogy Special Edition Soundtracks|''The Hobbit: The Motion Picture Trilogy'' - Special Edition Soundtracks]]<br />
**''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition|An Unexpected Journey]]''<br />
**''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition|The Desolation of Smaug]]''<br />
{{title|italics}}<br />
[[Category:The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies soundtracks]]<br />
[[Category:The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition| ]]</div>2.86.255.128https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=The_Hobbit:_The_Battle_of_the_Five_Armies_-_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack&diff=291208The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack2017-01-06T20:46:33Z<p>2.86.255.128: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{disambig-more|Battle of Five Armies|[[Battle of Five Armies (disambiguation)]]}}{{album<br />
| image=[[File:The Hobbit - The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack.jpg|250px]]<br />
| title=''The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack''<br />
| type=Soundtrack<br />
| artist=[[Howard Shore]]<br />
| released=[[9 December]], [[2014]]<br />
| recorded=<br />
| genre=<br />
| length=<br />
| language=English<br />
| label=[[Wikipedia:WaterTower Music|WaterTower Music]]<br />
}}<br />
'''''The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack''''' is an album comprising of the soundtrack from ''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies]]''. It was released digitally and on CD on [[9 December]] [[2014]].<br />
<br />
==Contents==<br />
===Disc 1===<br />
# [[Fire and Water (soundtrack)|Fire and Water]]<br />
# [[Shores of the Long Lake]]<br />
# [[Beyond Sorrow and Grief]]<br />
# [[Guardians of the Three]]<br />
# [[The Ruins of Dale]]<br />
# [[The Gathering of the Clouds (soundtrack)|The Gathering of the Clouds]]<br />
# [[Mithril (soundtrack)|Mithril]]<br />
# [[Bred for War]]<br />
# [[A Thief in the Night (soundtrack)|A Thief in the Night]]<br />
# [[The Clouds Burst (soundtrack)|The Clouds Burst]]<br />
# [[Battle for the Mountain]]<br />
<br />
===Disc 2===<br />
# [[The Darkest Hour]]<br />
# [[Sons of Durin]]<br />
# [[The Fallen]]<br />
# [[Ravenhill (soundtrack)|Ravenhill]]<br />
# [[To the Death]]<br />
# [[Courage and Wisdom]]<br />
# [[The Return Journey (soundtrack)|The Return Journey]]<br />
# [[There and Back Again (soundtrack)|There and Back Again]]<br />
# [[The Last Goodbye]] - performed by [[Billy Boyd]]<br />
# [[Ironfoot (soundtrack)|Ironfoot]]<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[:Category:The Hobbit: The Motion Picture Trilogy Original Soundtracks|''The Hobbit: The Motion Picture Trilogy'' - Original Soundtracks]]<br />
**''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack|An Unexpected Journey]]''<br />
**''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack|The Desolation of Smaug]]''<br />
*[[:Category:The Hobbit: The Motion Picture Trilogy Special Edition Soundtracks|''The Hobbit: The Motion Picture Trilogy'' - Special Edition Soundtracks]]<br />
**''[[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition|An Unexpected Journey]]''<br />
**''[[The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition|The Desolation of Smaug]]''<br />
**''[[The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Special Edition|The Battle of the Five Armies]]''<br />
__NOTOC__<br />
{{title|italics}}<br />
[[Category:The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies soundtracks]]<br />
[[Category:The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack| ]]</div>2.86.255.128